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On August 25 2012 05:49 Toadesstern wrote: so we meet again mr BC. bets on who'll die first this time? Me, because I am terrible at mafia.
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On August 29 2012 02:09 Quatol wrote:Show nested quote +On August 29 2012 02:06 goodkarma wrote:ShiaoPi and I both /in on page 4... You missed us sorry cutie, fixed <3 I think you missed me as well I /in'd on page 1.
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Morning all. Just finished reading through the thread. I was thinking about whether Matt or BC were scum but Palmar answered that question for us. Obviously ##Vote:Mattchew.
So now we know Mattchew is scum we go onto his scumbuddies. BlackMamba is a fairly obvious target because he defended Matt pretty hard and went after BC who, barring a crazy scum tactic, is town. I'd like to hear from him now that we know Matt's claim was fake.
The other person I thought was really suspicious was Rewok because his one real post was the most useless shit I've ever seen. There is no point in posting reads on everyone if that read is, in all cases, null. He even goes out of his way to explain away the uselessness of his post:
A little about me: I like to be careful about my scumreads. I'll only give a scumread if I've got a VERY strong hunch. My goal isn't to lynch townies. It's to make sure we use each lynch to nail a mafia and get this game over with quickly. Also - with every townie left alive. I would like to see him say something actually substantial on someone.
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On September 04 2012 18:54 BlackMamba24 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2012 18:52 imallinson wrote:Morning all. Just finished reading through the thread. I was thinking about whether Matt or BC were scum but Palmar answered that question for us. Obviously ##Vote:Mattchew. So now we know Mattchew is scum we go onto his scumbuddies. BlackMamba is a fairly obvious target because he defended Matt pretty hard and went after BC who, barring a crazy scum tactic, is town. I'd like to hear from him now that we know Matt's claim was fake. The other person I thought was really suspicious was Rewok because his one real post was the most useless shit I've ever seen. There is no point in posting reads on everyone if that read is, in all cases, null. He even goes out of his way to explain away the uselessness of his post: A little about me: I like to be careful about my scumreads. I'll only give a scumread if I've got a VERY strong hunch. My goal isn't to lynch townies. It's to make sure we use each lynch to nail a mafia and get this game over with quickly. Also - with every townie left alive. I would like to see him say something actually substantial on someone. hear what? I rescinded my vote and was basically waiting for palmar to pm me back to let me know whether nosy neighbours know their role or not. i assume BC knew about it from asking palmar privately in the first place. i was never defending mattchew anyway, only saying that i had no reason to believe BC until he could prove mattchew was lying which didn't happen until just now anyway so it's nice of you to pop in after the fact and throw some suspicion on me for it don't be silly Ok, I guess I misread your intentions. I can see why, given the information available to you, you would be suspicious of BC's assertion that Matt was lying. Why do you think Maverick is scum if Matt is? He doesn't defend Matt just says he isn't comfortable lynching him given the current info which is pretty similar to what you did.
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On September 04 2012 19:40 Bill Murray wrote: @Milton another good catch. Notice the interaction with Doyouhas? Seems like scum coaching. "Hey, your vote on BM sucks"
We may have caught 4 scum on d1 that'd be remarkable Why would scum do their coaching in this thread where town could see it?
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On September 04 2012 22:46 Rewok wrote: @Hap - The reads where I say, "I'm leaning towards X for this player."
When I say Town Read or Mafia Read, it's gonna be a firm read as far as I can tell. I'm not looking to change or update my reads every 1/2 day. My goal is to make reads that stick, which simply requires more info than we're got so far. (Zero votes and lots of bickering.)
Why post a lot of them in the first place. Your read on everyone should start as a null read. If you have something to say about someone then fine but going through people who haven't posted yet or you have nothing to add on obscures what you actually have to say.
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On September 05 2012 02:15 Ottoxlol wrote: He not just fakeclaimed, he also asked everyone to do so He asked other millers to claim not for everyone to fake claim. You're making very little sense at the moment.
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On September 05 2012 02:40 Ottoxlol wrote:Show nested quote +On September 05 2012 02:19 Hapahauli wrote:
Don't get why this is suspicious. Did you read anything between those two posts? DarthPunk and BC addressed my question pretty well. Combined with sloOsh's post, I felt that BC's confidence in his read was enough to vote for mattchew (with BC essentially 1-for-1'ing himself and mattchew). So you voted Matt because of BC's confidence. ?! + Show Spoiler +On September 05 2012 02:31 Toadesstern wrote:Show nested quote +On September 05 2012 02:15 Ottoxlol wrote:On September 05 2012 02:09 Toadesstern wrote:On September 05 2012 02:01 Ottoxlol wrote:On September 05 2012 01:50 Toadesstern wrote: People who know how to play post things, including fakeclaims as mafia all the time without checking with their buddies and they slip from time to time. If this was some random noob, fine but it's not, it's Mattchew. He most of the time knows what he's doing and certaintly doesn't need to check back with his buddies all the time.
Additionally in the most recent games I played as mafia I figured that a lot of mafia teams really only rely on the QT and really seldomly use other means of communication like IRC or skype which slows down communication A LOT. So in the most recent games I played as mafia pretty much everyone just did their own thing and you would only end up discussing things like who to kill at night or wether or not it's fine if you bus each other.
Again, if this was some random dude with 100 posts in his 3rd or 5th game of mafia fine, I'd agree he'd ask his buddies before doing something like this but Mattchew is not a random noob.
I could maaaaaaybe see him fakeclaim as tracker on purpose IF he knew millers are not self-aware to lure out additional fakeclaims but I don't really see that giving his answers. And if that really was the case it'd be the most stupid kind of play I've ever seen. That's literally the most retarded thing you could come up with but it's at least something I could come up with while the scenarios for a mafia who just slipped make a whole lot of sense My problem with this reasoning is why blue/assa bad play is more probable then scum bad play? Even if you think Matt is not likely to discuss it with his team, he can so why is it more likely? If he's scum he misread the rules then fakeclaimed without discussing it with his mates or they fucked up too. If he's a tracker/assa, he misread the rules then fakeclaimed. in hope of some probable targets (thinking the other assassin would likely claim or maybe even scum) Why is the first scenario is more likely by 19 people? :D I just don't see it. Tell me what I miss Because there's no reason to fakeclaim as tracker. As a mafia you blend in as a townie. He not just fakeclaimed, he also asked everyone to do so :D I wrote down my thoughts about the scenario where he is a tracker, or an assassin, why do you ignoring it? Does it go against your easy D1 lynch plan? sloOsh and your "I'm confident so I'm town lets keep arguing about nothing so everyone can see us active" then your selective answers put you right into my fos along with Hapahauli's strange voteswitch. Yeah, he blend in perfectly with everyone voting him 1) because, as already mentioned, that kind of play is the most stupid thing you could do as townie. It's like fakeclaiming a red check on someone because you think the guy is mafia. You just don't do that. Never. Ever. 2) Yeah and clearly I'm the guy trying to stop discussion. My filter just screams "don't talk about anything and just vote guys!"... 3) I'm not answering selective. I'm answering in a way that people have to think about what I'm posting. If they don't I'll realize that and frankly you're one of the people who are reading whithout thinking for at least a second what's actually in the post and you've just proven it again. So stop whining about answers and try to show the will to understand what's going on. 4) I said the fakeclaim has a purpose as mafia while it has none as town. The purpose as mafia would be to blend in if he assumes millers are self-aware. I never said it was successful. Another example of you not even thinking about what was posted and just answering in a hury. I don't like that. 5) I answered this with those 4 (now 5) bullet points to make it a little easier to understand from your point. Sorry, but you are still ignoring my question. I will make it easy on you: Why is it more probable to make a mistake as scum when you CAN have discussion about your actions with the other ones, then it is to make a mistake alone?
It isn't but you're assuming he did talk about it. Matt's the fake claim was the first post he made. Given that, there is a good chance that he decided to do it on his own without discussing it. There is also no reason for a townie to fake claim as his first post because there is no suspicion on him.
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People keep trying to save Matt by suggesting he is an assassin. It makes no sense for this to be the case. Sure he will be visiting people each night but barring being unlucky, they won't die. Even if that was the case he would be able to blue claim to save himself. Such an early claim is completely unnecessary as assassin. I would be more inclined to think he wasn't scum if he had actually tried to defend himself after Palmar's post but the fact he hasn't is the most damning thing of all. If he was an assassin there would be some worth in trying to explain the lie and save himself. As scum the silence is by far the best option because it gives town no info and lets them bicker amongst themselves while not actually doing anything. There has been a lot of time wasted on trying to figure out whether matt is scum even though the evidence strongly suggests he is. I think Ottox is scum and is using this bad situation for them to distract town with pointless discussion about whether Matt could be blue or could be an assassin. Gravan is most likely also scum because his only contributive posts are also trying to swing the discussion onto Matt possibly being an assassin. I think they both know they can't save Matt but are using it as a distraction. Gravan still voted Matt while arguing that he was an assassin so that he wouldn't stand out as having not voted for him. If Matt does flip scum (99% sure he will) we need to either vig shot or lynch (preferably the first one so we get rid of them as soon as possible) both Ottox and Gravan.
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On September 05 2012 20:51 Bill Murray wrote: i dont care what matt's role is at this point his original post is either a slip, or trolling
There seems to be a lot of people who do care. Even if he isn't scum his lynch gives us by far the most info.
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On September 05 2012 21:40 Z-BosoN wrote: Allison, what kind of info do you think it gives? If he is scum it puts a lot of suspicion on the people who are still defending him, Ottox and Gravan are the ones I would be most suspicious of. If he isn't scum then it puts the people who were really pushing for his lynch under some suspicion Toad, BC possibly me and a couple others. Of course if he is scum BC is almost definitely town because there would be no reason to sell out your team mate so early on.
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On September 06 2012 00:47 Toadesstern wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2012 00:36 imallinson wrote:On September 05 2012 21:40 Z-BosoN wrote: Allison, what kind of info do you think it gives? If he is scum it puts a lot of suspicion on the people who are still defending him, Ottox and Gravan are the ones I would be most suspicious of. If he isn't scum then it puts the people who were really pushing for his lynch under some suspicion Toad, BC possibly me and a couple others. Of course if he is scum BC is almost definitely town because there would be no reason to sell out your team mate so early on. I'd say it's the other way around lol. If Matt somehow manages to flip green or blue Ottox looks really bad. If Matt flips red, whatever, it's a null imo. I can see why you could think Matt flipping red wouldn't give info by assuming scum insta bussed Matt after Palmar's post. But how does him flipping town look bad for Ottox?
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well this should be interesting
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On September 06 2012 01:18 Toadesstern wrote: [*]If Matt flips mafia Ottox is either an incredible paranoid townie or an incredible ballsy mafia player. Both equally likely/unlikely (imo) and therefore the flip itself tells nothing so we have to resort to normal analysis. [/list] I can't see any town member being that paranoid. If that were the case surely they would have a good reason why they didn't think Matt was scum. Ottox's argument only needs a cursory glance to see its paper thin. I think because of how bad his argument is it's not aimed at saving Matt, I assume scum thinks it's impossible at this point, but to focus town's attention away from hunting any other scum members. Honestly unless Ottox has a very good reason for defending Matt he needs to die soon.
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On September 06 2012 03:34 Ottoxlol wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2012 01:18 Toadesstern wrote:On September 06 2012 01:01 imallinson wrote:On September 06 2012 00:47 Toadesstern wrote:On September 06 2012 00:36 imallinson wrote:On September 05 2012 21:40 Z-BosoN wrote: Allison, what kind of info do you think it gives? If he is scum it puts a lot of suspicion on the people who are still defending him, Ottox and Gravan are the ones I would be most suspicious of. If he isn't scum then it puts the people who were really pushing for his lynch under some suspicion Toad, BC possibly me and a couple others. Of course if he is scum BC is almost definitely town because there would be no reason to sell out your team mate so early on. I'd say it's the other way around lol. If Matt somehow manages to flip green or blue Ottox looks really bad. If Matt flips red, whatever, it's a null imo. I can see why you could think Matt flipping red wouldn't give info by assuming scum insta bussed Matt after Palmar's post. But how does him flipping town look bad for Ottox? well 24 out of 25 people agree that Matt needs to die. If that 1 guy telling us Matt is not mafia is right that looks awfully like someone having information he shouldn't have or how in the world is the guy supposed to come to the conclusion that Matt's got to be "not mafia" if everyone else agrees he is. - If Matt flips 3rd party Ottox needs to die 100% because he's a mafia who knew that Matt is "not Mafia" and tried to go for towncred.
- If Matt flips town Ottox probably needs to die because he's still most likely a mafia who thought he's getting towncred that way. I'm saying "probably" because it's possible that he really is the 1 out of 25 chance to be town but that's unlikely.
- If Matt flips mafia Ottox is either an incredible paranoid townie or an incredible ballsy mafia player. Both equally likely/unlikely (imo) and therefore the flip itself tells nothing so we have to resort to normal analysis.
I already told you my thought process, wtf is this post. He claimed, I looked at why would a scum claim and found no good reason, then looked at why a blue or assa would claim and found no good reason. So everyone condemned him as scum for some reason, I was amazed how can everyone let vote ppl without proper content and provide a possible easy wagon so I tried to get as much out of everyone why would they do that (lot of "he lied so hes scum"-> there is no content to discuss). If anything if he flips red every newb or scum will wagon on me, if he flips black/blue then we have at least a couple of ppl with content talking about him, I explained why I think he's more likely to be blue or black in my calculations but I never said that he is 100% not scum.
As quite a few people have said Matt isn't scum just because he lied. The fact that he disappeared for ages after Palmar's post without defending himself is much more damning than the actual fake claim.
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On September 06 2012 04:12 Ottoxlol wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2012 04:06 Hopeless1der wrote:On September 06 2012 03:34 Ottoxlol wrote:
I already told you my thought process, wtf is this post.
He claimed, I looked at why would a scum claim and found no good reason ---SNIP Stopped reading. Let's try again. You're telling me you couldn't find a benefit for scum to fake claim nosy neighbor? There is no good reason. It was dumb, I thought we already agreed on that. There can be if it were a self-aware miller game but if it would be there could be reason to claim it as blue or assa too.
OK
1) Yes it was dumb but that has no effect on his alignment. Scum can be just as dumb as town.
2) Matt obviously didn't know that millers were not self aware or he wouldn't have role claimed self aware miller. Whether the role actually exists or not is not relevant to this specific part of the argument.
3) As has been said countless fucking times already there is no reason for him to fake claim self aware miller as blue or assassin.
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On September 06 2012 06:36 Ottoxlol wrote: You did not answered why is it more probable to do this as scum then as assa or blue. You are still dodging it. You write a lot of spam but contribute negative, try to stop the discussion.
Seriously. For the last fucking time. That has been answered by toad and multiple other people in the thread. Just because you somehow have completely missed it doesn't stop it from being there. You are the one adding a shit ton of spam by not reading the responses to the questions you keep asking over and over again.
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On September 06 2012 06:45 Ottoxlol wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2012 06:44 grush57 wrote:On September 06 2012 06:34 Toadesstern wrote:On September 06 2012 06:28 Ottoxlol wrote:On September 06 2012 06:22 goodkarma wrote:@Ottox:First: On September 06 2012 04:53 Ottoxlol wrote:On September 06 2012 04:41 BroodKingEXE wrote:On September 06 2012 03:57 Ottoxlol wrote:On September 06 2012 03:49 Z-BosoN wrote: @goodkarma Just because he is up on my suspicion bar does not mean that he is scum. He could very well be a bad townie. If he is, the only motivation he has for defending matt and attacking toad is that he actually thinks that toad is more suspicious than matt, and if so, he's doing a shitty job at explaining himself. Also, him being obnoxious doesn't contribute to his defense. At least I am not that retarded to attack someone on the ground of their first post that was clearly a joke. I already explained my motivation two post ago. If you need some help understanding it you can ask for it nicely You dont joke about scum reads. You're scum, because you are trying to derail a lynch and not trying to bring up another canidate. Real townie would create a case and present a new option, but scum dont want to give away to much and wont do that. They'll try to plug an easy lurker after a derail. You are wrong. A joke is fine when the game is just started and there is nothing. You say scum dont want to give away much. Thats my main concern too, no one has to add anything to why they vote Matt, thats why i am trying to get ppl to talk about it. The problem with joking is that when you say something and then go back and say "just kidding," people don't know if you're a scum trying to cover up a blunder, or a townie who really is joking. That's why "joke" posts really aren't a good idea, as they do nothing to scumhunt. And if you're town, it's a fast track to getting suspicion placed on you all game long... Second: On September 06 2012 03:54 Ottoxlol wrote: Toad, I asked about the vote on Matt and he told me a bunch of things but dodged the question for 8-9 times.
Those who started focusing on Gravan but ignored me.
Those who voted Matt with a one liner. I asked for your top scumread, and this doesn't cut it. Blanket accusing everyone who focused on Gravan but not you, as well as those who made one-line cases for Mattchew is not constructive. Like why is it that those who focused on Gravan alone are suspicious? You've never discussed this at all, and it requires further explanation. And if you're going to discuss Toad as a top scumread, then please take more than one line to elaborate on it. I was not the only one joking in the first half an hour, grush, Hapa, Toad made jokes too. So about Toad, he was active a lot but failed to make a case on why is he voting Matt. You can see our conversation in our filters, This is why I ask the same question again and again to get scum answer too. You guys are blinded by scum talking bs in the thread. Wtf. How is that: On September 05 2012 00:45 Toadesstern wrote:On September 05 2012 00:29 strongandbig wrote:On September 04 2012 23:52 Maverick32x wrote: I voted for Matt due to the lying- but I would be curious to hear if he has a defense of some kind?? lol. If matt was going to defend himself he would have said something by now other than "hey guys maybe I'm a VT trying to draw scum shots lol". I've played a bunch of games with Mattchew recently and based on those, I think this is him as scum. For example, if I were going to fakeclaim miller as scum, I would do it very differently. However, you have to remember a couple things about Mattchew: - he's lazy as fuck as scum, except in themed games - he's pretty aggressive as town a lot of the time. The example I was thinking about was from him in TL Mafia LV, where he and I were both town. He lied about taking a shot, and then when I suggested that it made no sense for him to take a scum shot and he might have been vigged, he attacked me like a moron for the rest of the game. Unlike that, in this game his lie doesn't have any follow-up. If it was a planned-out pro-town lie, which I imagine is what he'll pretend it is, he would have been all over the first few people to attack him. Instead he just disappeared. It seems much more likely that what he did was the same thing I did in deathnote - claimed miller without first asking the hosts whether millers are self-aware, and got caught for it. The difference is, I did it in a game with a closed setup. ##vote: mattchew yeah Matt really is someone who's really in your face both as a townie and a mafia. He's incredible aggressive and / or borderline insulting if people don't think the same way he does. As mafia he's telling people to shut up and that he doesn't need to explain his reads a bit because people are to retarded to understand it anyways when he knows he's right about something, e.g. when he's bussing a buddy, defending a townie to get towncred or geniunely meant something another way and people are misinterpreting what he said due to a type or something like that. As Town he does the same when he heavily think's he's right or when someone misunderstands him. His calm and almost not existing involvement here defenitly is not what matt does when somethings "wrong" according to him. That either means he acknowledges that he screwed up as a town or that he acknowledges that he screwed up as a mafia and doesn't think it's going to help anymore. As already mentioned I don't see a reason at all for a town to fakeclaim like this and combine that with him "giving up" and you're good to go. + On September 04 2012 23:21 Toadesstern wrote:On September 04 2012 22:55 Ottoxlol wrote: Why so many people jump to vote Matt?
Whatever is his alignment he fucked up. Does this makes him scum?
Matt thought Noisys are aware of themselves. He has some kind of role. This is all we know.
If he's blue he could have done it to protect himself from scum.
If a scum would fakeclaim I think he would discuss it with his team first and do you all think every scum missed this thing? I highly doubt it. If anything Matt is a blue or assa.
This just provides an easy wagon to jump onto and removes d1 discussion as a whole, no town benefit from that. Just because he did not play well it doesnt mean he's scum. a blue doctor, jailkeep, Tracker, Watcher or Vigi however has no reason to be afraid. Maybe a Mad Hatter would be hard to explain but I'd doubt someone would want to fakeclaim as miller like that as a Mad Hatter. Picture the situation you're in as a blue: We have trackers and Watchers. What happens is that at some time someone could say "Hey guys, Matt visited X at night Y". If he's a doctor, tracker or a watcher that's no problem at all because the target in question didn't die. We want to know who visited people who ended up being dead. If he's a doc there's actually a chance he ended up saving someone and that someone could even confirm that. If he is a tracker or a Watcher he is able to claim the results, something Mafia is not able to do. So a Doc, Tracker or a Watcher are all perfectly fine and there's no reason to fakeclaim like this. A Jailer can somewhat confirm himself as well as the target he visited ended up being roleblocked every single night. It's only "somewhat" because a mafia RB is possible as well but after all if he's a Jailer he's again only going to visit people who ended up surviving the night. A vig is somewhat tricky as it's an extremly easy fakeclaim for mafia to do but as long as you claim prior to the deadline everyone's going to be fine with that. A Mad Hatter is, like a vigi somewhat tricky but as everything else you visited people. That in itself is not a reason to be suspicious of someone and the Mad Hatter is most likely going to visit people who ended up surviving as well unless either the Hatter decides to go after townish looking people for whatever reason or mafia decides to go after bad looking townies for whatever reason. tl;dr: There's not a single scenario in which a fakeclaim as a blue makes sense. At least I can't think of one because you won't end up being tracked to a kill in pretty much all the cases. On top of that noone is going to be stupid enough to out someone who visited a guy who's still alive because that's basicly outing medics / tracker / watcher in most of the cases. However there are a bunch of good reasons to fakeclaim this as mafia if you forgot that millers / NN are usually not self-aware in 90% of the games and just did it because he recently played a game with self-aware millers. I think Bang-Bang mafia was one of those for example. So there's a shitton of explanations from a mafia point of view. The only possible explanation from a town point of view would probably be "reversed psychology" although you're making yourself a target doing so, which isn't what a blue wants to do either unless he's a Hatter d2 or later. + On September 05 2012 02:09 Toadesstern wrote:On September 05 2012 02:01 Ottoxlol wrote:On September 05 2012 01:50 Toadesstern wrote: People who know how to play post things, including fakeclaims as mafia all the time without checking with their buddies and they slip from time to time. If this was some random noob, fine but it's not, it's Mattchew. He most of the time knows what he's doing and certaintly doesn't need to check back with his buddies all the time.
Additionally in the most recent games I played as mafia I figured that a lot of mafia teams really only rely on the QT and really seldomly use other means of communication like IRC or skype which slows down communication A LOT. So in the most recent games I played as mafia pretty much everyone just did their own thing and you would only end up discussing things like who to kill at night or wether or not it's fine if you bus each other.
Again, if this was some random dude with 100 posts in his 3rd or 5th game of mafia fine, I'd agree he'd ask his buddies before doing something like this but Mattchew is not a random noob.
I could maaaaaaybe see him fakeclaim as tracker on purpose IF he knew millers are not self-aware to lure out additional fakeclaims but I don't really see that giving his answers. And if that really was the case it'd be the most stupid kind of play I've ever seen. That's literally the most retarded thing you could come up with but it's at least something I could come up with while the scenarios for a mafia who just slipped make a whole lot of sense My problem with this reasoning is why blue/assa bad play is more probable then scum bad play? Even if you think Matt is not likely to discuss it with his team, he can so why is it more likely? If he's scum he misread the rules then fakeclaimed without discussing it with his mates or they fucked up too. If he's a tracker/assa, he misread the rules then fakeclaimed. in hope of some probable targets (thinking the other assassin would likely claim or maybe even scum) Why is the first scenario is more likely by 19 people? :D I just don't see it. Tell me what I miss Because there's no reason to fakeclaim as tracker. As a mafia you blend in as a townie. not explaining why I'm voting Matt? Stop lying dude Ottox has no idea what he is doing or he is scum. I am trying to get ppl to talk about why they voted Matt. So far I got Toad as scum from that. What have you done mate?
Everyone knows why people voted Matt. He lied and never defended his lie when BC called him out on it and then disappeared when Pamlar posted that it was a lie. Asking everyone why exactly they voted for Matt is pointless because you get the same answer from everyone. So no, you didn't get that toad was scum and you have actually done nothing but shit up the thread.
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On September 06 2012 07:19 Z-BosoN wrote:Uh, bill, aren't you forgetting someone? For someone who said: You sure quickly forgot him when you were making your little list... Even if Ottox isn't scum (I'm pretty sure he is) he needs to die, preferably night 1.
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On September 06 2012 07:23 Hapahauli wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2012 07:17 Bill Murray wrote: Also, Hapahauli, what is your read on Gravan? Scum or town? I don't want you using the word Null. Pick one. Scum or town? Consider yourself having a Gun to your head. Null. Deal with it. His posts/logic right now could come from either mafia or bad-townie. I don't have enough information to make a decision since hasn't posted much. Fortunately we have 48 hours to make a read on him.
I'd say Gravan looks real scummy right now. He attempted the same thing as Ottox, defending Matt by saying he was probably an assassin, but much more quietly and backed away as soon as he realised it was a bad idea. If anything that looks more scummy than Ottox at the moment.
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On September 06 2012 07:29 Bill Murray wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2012 07:27 imallinson wrote:On September 06 2012 07:23 Hapahauli wrote:On September 06 2012 07:17 Bill Murray wrote: Also, Hapahauli, what is your read on Gravan? Scum or town? I don't want you using the word Null. Pick one. Scum or town? Consider yourself having a Gun to your head. Null. Deal with it. His posts/logic right now could come from either mafia or bad-townie. I don't have enough information to make a decision since hasn't posted much. Fortunately we have 48 hours to make a read on him. I'd say Gravan looks real scummy right now. He attempted the same thing as Ottox, defending Matt by saying he was probably an assassin, but much more quietly and backed away as soon as he realised it was a bad idea. If anything that looks more scummy than Ottox at the moment. THANK YOU. Go read Gravan's filter, and tell me if you don't find hapa coaching him? 2nd person I've caught him coaching that looks like scum with him (Doyouhas is the other) I don't really like coaching in this thread as an argument for a connection between two scum. I figure if scum has an ounce of sense they will do all their coaching elsewhere. It's possible Hapa is coaching his scum buddies but it's certainly not enough to push for his lynch.
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On September 06 2012 07:36 Bill Murray wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2012 07:34 imallinson wrote:On September 06 2012 07:29 Bill Murray wrote:On September 06 2012 07:27 imallinson wrote:On September 06 2012 07:23 Hapahauli wrote:On September 06 2012 07:17 Bill Murray wrote: Also, Hapahauli, what is your read on Gravan? Scum or town? I don't want you using the word Null. Pick one. Scum or town? Consider yourself having a Gun to your head. Null. Deal with it. His posts/logic right now could come from either mafia or bad-townie. I don't have enough information to make a decision since hasn't posted much. Fortunately we have 48 hours to make a read on him. I'd say Gravan looks real scummy right now. He attempted the same thing as Ottox, defending Matt by saying he was probably an assassin, but much more quietly and backed away as soon as he realised it was a bad idea. If anything that looks more scummy than Ottox at the moment. THANK YOU. Go read Gravan's filter, and tell me if you don't find hapa coaching him? 2nd person I've caught him coaching that looks like scum with him (Doyouhas is the other) I don't really like coaching in this thread as an argument for a connection between two scum. I figure if scum has an ounce of sense they will do all their coaching elsewhere. It's possible Hapa is coaching his scum buddies but it's certainly not enough to push for his lynch. not all scum are active in the quicktime, bro Like I said it's certainly possible but not enough to push a lynch for. Anyway Gravan is a much better target for a lynch right now.
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I think the general consensus is that Ottox is scum and needs to get vig shot and I've said enough about him already so I'll leave that as is. On to who needs lynching tomorrow.
I'm convinced at this point that Gravan needs lynching. His filter reads like textbook scum tactics.
On September 05 2012 09:38 Gravan wrote:First, the straightforward part. It seems to me that Matt is most likely an assassin, or a very careless player. As many have said before me, there is no case for him to do what he did from a town perspective. To me, it seems that if he were mafia or town, we would likely have seen at least some kind of attempt at an explanation - either to strengthen his fellow mafia by giving them 'towncred' as they jump on his bandwagon or to try to convince us we are making a mistake as a town blue. As an assassin, he could just be seeing his end and giving up - this is of course moot if he decides to put in his piece later. Since he is apparently not a random newbie (who is a random newb, anyway ?), and clearly likes to be an active player, it shouts assasinto me. Since it is day 1 and we only have so much information, we essentially have to lynch him anyway (even if we were nearly certain he is an assassin. At this time, I'll be throwing my vote his way.
On September 05 2012 13:30 Gravan wrote:Show nested quote +On September 05 2012 13:00 Hapahauli wrote: Why is he voting Mattchew if he's convinced he's an assassin? Hell that post doesn't really explain why he's even voting - "we essentially have to lynch him anyway" - wut? This is my fault for wording this sentence poorly. Although I am still leaning towards Matt being an assassin, he certainly looks all kinds of scummy as well. There isn't enough information at this point to lynch someone else - this lynch will, at worst, be neutral. I feel that, unless someone who has better evidence against them comes up (unlikely) we are better off to make this lynch and gain the information (Matt's flip) than sit idle. I am just asserting that I personally think he is an assassin. I'm done on the whole Matt issue now; still working on making my posts more constructive and less parrot-y. If Matt flips scum, Ottox and Toad really need to be looked at. Ottox has been making his bizarre crusade about the potential innocence of Matt, as everyone knows. To me, Toad's last few posts have seemed a little aimless and very personally aggressive with little content. He spends a considerable amount of time shutting down and pointing at Ottox (who is looking obviously scummy or very misguided) in a well written post, then shifts to personal attacks and negligent remarks. His first post with any content is a soft defence of Matt. Along with Ottox this is meant to take town discussion away from anything useful and focussing it on whether Matt is assassin or scum. The second post is the same soft defence as the first but also starts trying to put Toad under the spotlight. The last part makes no sense because he thinks Toad is scummy for attacking Ottox who he also thinks is scum. The shift from well written to angry attacks isn't due to toad being scummy it's due to Ottox not listening to anybody.
Once everyone piles on Ottox he backs away from this position while Ottox is taking the spotlight. When Matt is lynched and flips red there is no follow up to the previous posts. He avoids the subject entirely hoping it will slip under everyone's radar.
On September 06 2012 10:16 Gravan wrote:I think Bill Murray is scum. Show nested quote +Also, Hapahauli, what is your read on Gravan? Scum or town? I don't want you using the word Null. Pick one. Scum or town? Consider yourself having a Gun to your head. This is the first time he mentions me. At this point, he hasn't put forward any kind of read on me at all. In addition, many of his posts up until this point (not to mention quite a few afterward) are pointless one-liners, or just generally non-contributing. The next thing he does is tell austin to read my filter as if I was scum (again, not argument put forward on his part - he is talking as if me being scum is a forgone conclusion). + Show Spoiler +On September 06 2012 07:18 austinmcc wrote: Show nested quote + Looking through his profile, I see his only other game was LIII. So he's at least played, although not with me. But he knows that some of the people in this game played that game, he played with them, he knows they are competent individuals with functioning brains.
It's the first time I've ever seen someone cling to something absolutely wrong in this manner. I have posted paranoid rants in two games, stuck by them for a while as possibilities, gotten upset if people wouldn't consider them as possibilities, but I didn't get like this.
Right now (and if Matt flips scum I will be more certain of the read) I can't help but read the whole thing like this: Matt got caught Ottoxlol tried to save him, without realizing how bad an idea it was Ottoxlol shortly realized how bad an idea it was A decent scum player told him right after he got caught looking very odd that he couldn't back off his defense, because then he'd look even scummier So he went full bore nuts, and that's why he won't listen to anyone or anything
It doesn't feel like he's just obtuse. At some point he'd get the message. It feels like he's clinging to this.
Do me a favor, and go read Gravan's filter as if he were a scum idiot Then he goes on to say that hap is on his scumlist for "coaching" me. + Show Spoiler +On September 06 2012 07:23 Hapahauli wrote: Show nested quote +
Null. Deal with it.
His posts/logic right now could come from either mafia or bad-townie. I don't have enough information to make a decision since hasn't posted much. Fortunately we have 48 hours to make a read on him.
yeah youre on my scum list so is gravan you openly coached him Afterwards, he includes doyouhas in this list. + Show Spoiler +filter On September 06 2012 07:27 imallinson wrote: Show nested quote +
I'd say Gravan looks real scummy right now. He attempted the same thing as Ottox, defending Matt by saying he was probably an assassin, but much more quietly and backed away as soon as he realised it was a bad idea. If anything that looks more scummy than Ottox at the moment.
THANK YOU. Go read Gravan's filter, and tell me if you don't find hapa coaching him? 2nd person I've caught him coaching that looks like scum with him (Doyouhas is the other) His next two posts that mention me go on to mention (offhandedly) the apparently obvious need to have me shot by a vig. Further, if you read his filter he is very non-comittal on the otto-defending-matt-and-generally-acting-scummy issue. His posts are passively worded and just softly agree with the flow of the thread at the time.
At this point he has contributed very little and people are starting to notice. So he does what any scum would in that situation and makes a case. The problem is, and what makes the case seem really scummy, the case reads like it is there just to be there, to look like he is contributing. It seems to be entirely based on the fact that BM hasn't contributed much yet which Gravan is more guilty of himself. It reeks of OMGUS. The rest of his few posts are trying to defend this terrible case on BM and some vague mentions of being suspicious of DrH.
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On September 07 2012 00:36 Gravan wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2012 23:53 imallinson wrote:I think the general consensus is that Ottox is scum and needs to get vig shot and I've said enough about him already so I'll leave that as is. On to who needs lynching tomorrow. I'm convinced at this point that Gravan needs lynching. His filter reads like textbook scum tactics. On September 05 2012 09:38 Gravan wrote:First, the straightforward part. It seems to me that Matt is most likely an assassin, or a very careless player. As many have said before me, there is no case for him to do what he did from a town perspective. To me, it seems that if he were mafia or town, we would likely have seen at least some kind of attempt at an explanation - either to strengthen his fellow mafia by giving them 'towncred' as they jump on his bandwagon or to try to convince us we are making a mistake as a town blue. As an assassin, he could just be seeing his end and giving up - this is of course moot if he decides to put in his piece later. Since he is apparently not a random newbie (who is a random newb, anyway ?), and clearly likes to be an active player, it shouts assasinto me. Since it is day 1 and we only have so much information, we essentially have to lynch him anyway (even if we were nearly certain he is an assassin. At this time, I'll be throwing my vote his way. On September 05 2012 13:30 Gravan wrote:On September 05 2012 13:00 Hapahauli wrote: Why is he voting Mattchew if he's convinced he's an assassin? Hell that post doesn't really explain why he's even voting - "we essentially have to lynch him anyway" - wut? This is my fault for wording this sentence poorly. Although I am still leaning towards Matt being an assassin, he certainly looks all kinds of scummy as well. There isn't enough information at this point to lynch someone else - this lynch will, at worst, be neutral. I feel that, unless someone who has better evidence against them comes up (unlikely) we are better off to make this lynch and gain the information (Matt's flip) than sit idle. I am just asserting that I personally think he is an assassin. I'm done on the whole Matt issue now; still working on making my posts more constructive and less parrot-y. If Matt flips scum, Ottox and Toad really need to be looked at. Ottox has been making his bizarre crusade about the potential innocence of Matt, as everyone knows. To me, Toad's last few posts have seemed a little aimless and very personally aggressive with little content. He spends a considerable amount of time shutting down and pointing at Ottox (who is looking obviously scummy or very misguided) in a well written post, then shifts to personal attacks and negligent remarks. His first post with any content is a soft defence of Matt. Along with Ottox this is meant to take town discussion away from anything useful and focussing it on whether Matt is assassin or scum. The second post is the same soft defence as the first but also starts trying to put Toad under the spotlight. The last part makes no sense because he thinks Toad is scummy for attacking Ottox who he also thinks is scum. The shift from well written to angry attacks isn't due to toad being scummy it's due to Ottox not listening to anybody. Once everyone piles on Ottox he backs away from this position while Ottox is taking the spotlight. When Matt is lynched and flips red there is no follow up to the previous posts. He avoids the subject entirely hoping it will slip under everyone's radar. On September 06 2012 10:16 Gravan wrote:I think Bill Murray is scum. Also, Hapahauli, what is your read on Gravan? Scum or town? I don't want you using the word Null. Pick one. Scum or town? Consider yourself having a Gun to your head. This is the first time he mentions me. At this point, he hasn't put forward any kind of read on me at all. In addition, many of his posts up until this point (not to mention quite a few afterward) are pointless one-liners, or just generally non-contributing. The next thing he does is tell austin to read my filter as if I was scum (again, not argument put forward on his part - he is talking as if me being scum is a forgone conclusion). + Show Spoiler +On September 06 2012 07:18 austinmcc wrote: Show nested quote + Looking through his profile, I see his only other game was LIII. So he's at least played, although not with me. But he knows that some of the people in this game played that game, he played with them, he knows they are competent individuals with functioning brains.
It's the first time I've ever seen someone cling to something absolutely wrong in this manner. I have posted paranoid rants in two games, stuck by them for a while as possibilities, gotten upset if people wouldn't consider them as possibilities, but I didn't get like this.
Right now (and if Matt flips scum I will be more certain of the read) I can't help but read the whole thing like this: Matt got caught Ottoxlol tried to save him, without realizing how bad an idea it was Ottoxlol shortly realized how bad an idea it was A decent scum player told him right after he got caught looking very odd that he couldn't back off his defense, because then he'd look even scummier So he went full bore nuts, and that's why he won't listen to anyone or anything
It doesn't feel like he's just obtuse. At some point he'd get the message. It feels like he's clinging to this.
Do me a favor, and go read Gravan's filter as if he were a scum idiot Then he goes on to say that hap is on his scumlist for "coaching" me. + Show Spoiler +On September 06 2012 07:23 Hapahauli wrote: Show nested quote +
Null. Deal with it.
His posts/logic right now could come from either mafia or bad-townie. I don't have enough information to make a decision since hasn't posted much. Fortunately we have 48 hours to make a read on him.
yeah youre on my scum list so is gravan you openly coached him Afterwards, he includes doyouhas in this list. + Show Spoiler +filter On September 06 2012 07:27 imallinson wrote: Show nested quote +
I'd say Gravan looks real scummy right now. He attempted the same thing as Ottox, defending Matt by saying he was probably an assassin, but much more quietly and backed away as soon as he realised it was a bad idea. If anything that looks more scummy than Ottox at the moment.
THANK YOU. Go read Gravan's filter, and tell me if you don't find hapa coaching him? 2nd person I've caught him coaching that looks like scum with him (Doyouhas is the other) His next two posts that mention me go on to mention (offhandedly) the apparently obvious need to have me shot by a vig. Further, if you read his filter he is very non-comittal on the otto-defending-matt-and-generally-acting-scummy issue. His posts are passively worded and just softly agree with the flow of the thread at the time. At this point he has contributed very little and people are starting to notice. So he does what any scum would in that situation and makes a case. The problem is, and what makes the case seem really scummy, the case reads like it is there just to be there, to look like he is contributing. It seems to be entirely based on the fact that BM hasn't contributed much yet which Gravan is more guilty of himself. It reeks of OMGUS. The rest of his few posts are trying to defend this terrible case on BM and some vague mentions of being suspicious of DrH. No where did I say Toad was scummy, I was just trying to focus the discussion elsewhere - at that time, everyone was going on and on about otto, which felt like a dead-horse topic to me. I suppose I could have also talked about matt, and said something to the effect of "oops, I guess I was wrong". What do you want from me here? I keep getting harped on for my 'terrible' case on Bill, but I still don't really see why he can aimlessly say I need to get shot and get away with it. From a scum perspective it makes sense to casually try to get townies killed by a vig/mislynch. But, from a townie perspective it makes sense to do what you are doing right now if you want someone to die; you make a reasoned case against them - pulling out all kinds of information in the process.
You didn't outright say toad was scummy but "If Matt flips scum, Ottox and Toad really need to be looked at" sounds like you think that's the case. The thing that makes you most scummy to me is that you don't stick to your reads and you don't back them up with good arguments. It makes it look like you know the people you say are scummy aren't actually scum, something you would only know if you were scum.
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On September 07 2012 01:06 austinmcc wrote:I'mallinson, any trouble with this? Show nested quote +On September 06 2012 08:22 austinmcc wrote: But I'm having trouble with the timing of it all, and it's one reason I'm not too convinced about scum Gravan.
Matt claims nosy neighbor at 9:12 TL time, 9/4 Palmar confirms nosy neighbors are not self-aware at 18:17 TL time, 9/4 Gravan comes in with his passive post at 5:41, 9/5 Gravan starts talking about Matt and the assassin stuff at 9:38, 9/5
That bugs me. If Gravan is scum, then either he posted in thread without checking in QT, or checked QT before posting in thread. If he checked it, there's NO WAY that he wrote that crap. Right? No way do you limp into thread 20 hours after your scumbuddy got caught and 11 hours after it was confirmed he was caught and go "Hey guys, sorry." Then ESPECIALLY NO WAY do you wait 4 hours after that post and go "Okay I think he's an assassin." Right? And if he didn't check QT, he came back, posted that bad post, then had 4 hours. I'm guessing in that time he would have checked QT while reading thread, and same thing...you don't get that next post. I know he's got more posts now, and I agree that the BM case is weak/OMGUSy. But I still don't see this guy as scum because I can't believe that scum would post that assassin bit so far after the time that Matt's goose was mod-cooked. Are you okay with that timing? Do you think he just didn't read QT? You think that over the course of more than 10 hours scum didn't give explicit instructions for how to handle Matt in thread? You think they crafted this weird post for one scum member to call out matt as an assassin (and, if so, to what end, because clearly it's not making people find him town)?
That's getting into the same reasoning as Ottox's reason why Matt wasn't scum, that because scum can talk with team mates they don't make mistakes. Your point makes sense if the scum team is working well together but we've had Matt's fake claim which is obviously scum doing something stupid. If you add to that Ottox who I think is scum doing all the stupid shit he has done I can see Gravan posting the soft defence of Matt before thinking and before looking at the QT. Obviously this alone wouldn't be a solid case, in the same way BM's point about Hapa coaching isn't enough to push a lynch on him, but with the rest of Gravan's posting being so lurky and faux contributing I think that Gravan is the best bet to lynch tomorrow.
On September 07 2012 01:07 slOosh wrote: imallison have you considered Gravan as newbie town or do you think the evidence shows otherwise? Also what do you make of his stance on Otto if you think both scum?
Because I'm seeing new town learning as he goes along. You can see how his post reflect the thread information at the time (indication that he is reading), and making what you consider bad arguments is alignment null. His case against BM is very reasonable - as a new player what would you do when you see someone dropping strings of 8 1-liners and being vague in general, and people ignoring him?
It's certainly possible he is newbie town but I don't think that is a sufficient explanation for his scummy behaviour. Personally I've never played a game with BM before and seeing everyone ignore him I figured that not everyone can be scum so it must just be how BM is. Even if Gravan didn't reach the same conclusion the case reeks of scum making a light case on someone they think will be an easy target to seem to contribute to the thread.
As for Ottox and Gravan both being scum I think it's certainly possible. Notice Gravan doesn't talk about Ottox being scummy until well after Ottox started his hole digging project. I think it is certainly possible that the scum team decided that Ottox had shafted himself and bussed him to blend in with everyone else attacking him.
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The problem is that everyone who didn't have a vote on Matt voted Matt after Palmar's post with little or no explanation because the explanation was obvious to everyone (except Ottox of course). I'm sure scum bussed Matt as soon as they saw Palmar's post. So our possible list of people who could be scum bussing Matt is everyone who voted Matt except Sloosh, Hapa and DYH which doesn't get us very far.
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Wow that flip with regards to the Matt vote is pretty damning. I don't see why a town player would ignore what he had just said just because other people were voting against it. I'd be very curious to see what BKE had to say about it. ##Vote: BroodKingEXE
I'm still suspicious of Gravan (BKE trumps that at the moment). I'm not really buying the "he is newb town" argument, his filter still looks more scum than town to me.
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@Hapa
While I agree with your case those posts are 8 hours apart not 4. Doesn't matter a ton because he still completely changes stance with no reason given.
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On September 07 2012 22:05 Hapahauli wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2012 21:59 imallinson wrote: Wow that flip with regards to the Matt vote is pretty damning. I don't see why a town player would ignore what he had just said just because other people were voting against it. I'd be very curious to see what BKE had to say about it. ##Vote: BroodKingEXE
I'm still suspicious of Gravan (BKE trumps that at the moment). I'm not really buying the "he is newb town" argument, his filter still looks more scum than town to me. If BKE flips red, Gravan is 100% town. GoodKarma and BKE talked about him too much (and BKE was highly suspicious of him) to be a scumbuddy.
I wouldn't say he was 100% town (that's a really bad thing to say about someone in general) but I wouldn't push a lynch on him in that case. I think it's entirely possible that Gravan is scum and BKE is town but the case against BKE is stronger at the moment.
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Just noticed that Shady ninja voted BKE. Not sure what to make of that.
On September 07 2012 23:05 Shady Sands wrote: ##Vote: BroodKingEXE
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I've been out all day and caught up with the thread on the bus home. The day is almost over so sorry if this is a bit hasty. I'm not buying BKE's watcher claim.
First a few assumptions I'm making: 1) Mafia has one vig thus had effectively three kp night one not including GK's bomb. 2) Mafia used all their kp. Someone suggested they saved some to out blues but that seems like it would only work if pressure was being put on that blue so I think it's unlikely. 3) Mafia did not shoot Ottox.
If BKE is watcher then GK must have bombed BM and shot BC without a double stack. Therefore we are missing two kp. The only way for this to happen is a combination of a medic/jailer getting a lucky save, a scum shot hit an assassin or the jailer rb'd a scum.
To me this seems very unlikely because BC seems like the better bomb target and barring a medic saving BKE he should be dead. Also missing two kp feels really fishy to me. One getting blocked I could understand but two seems a little far fetched given the information available at the time (that no one apart from the two dead people seemed that town).
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On September 09 2012 06:47 austinmcc wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2012 06:42 imallinson wrote: I've been out all day and caught up with the thread on the bus home. The day is almost over so sorry if this is a bit hasty. I'm not buying BKE's watcher claim.
First a few assumptions I'm making: 1) Mafia has one vig thus had effectively three kp night one not including GK's bomb. 2) Mafia used all their kp. Someone suggested they saved some to out blues but that seems like it would only work if pressure was being put on that blue so I think it's unlikely. 3) Mafia did not shoot Ottox.
If BKE is watcher then GK must have bombed BM and shot BC without a double stack. Therefore we are missing two kp. The only way for this to happen is a combination of a medic/jailer getting a lucky save, a scum shot hit an assassin or the jailer rb'd a scum.
To me this seems very unlikely because BC seems like the better bomb target and barring a medic saving BKE he should be dead. Also missing two kp feels really fishy to me. One getting blocked I could understand but two seems a little far fetched given the information available at the time (that no one apart from the two dead people seemed that town). If BKE is a watcher then scum did not double stack. He only saw GK, and he wouldn't be lying if he were actually a watcher. That's what I said: "GK must have bombed BM and shot BC without a double stack."
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On September 09 2012 06:56 Z-BosoN wrote: @imallinson
I'm guessing they are just missing one shot. Mafia have 2kp + vigi + bomber to kill with. I agree that ottox was probably a town vigi kill, so there is one kp missing, no? gk - BC or BM 1 kp - BM or BC 1 kp - ??? It's most likely that the mafia vigi didn't waste his shot, no? Why would vigi shot be a waste? I figure mafia wants to thin out the town as much as possible thus the vigi is basically an extra kp for the first two nights. I could be wrong but there is more scummy stuff about BKE that was said before he claimed.
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On September 10 2012 05:26 Z-BosoN wrote:. 2) I'm not entirely sold on BKE, but I feel much better about him than about Grush. he think grush isn't scum, but BKE is even less scummier, because he feels better about BKE than on grush. I think you're misunderstanding him there. I read that as he feels better about a BKE lynch not he feels better about BKE.
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@Z-Boson I might just be missing it but I can't see toad shitting on hopeless' case in his filter.
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On September 10 2012 05:47 Z-BosoN wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2012 05:41 imallinson wrote: @Z-Boson I might just be missing it but I can't see toad shitting on hopeless' case in his filter. He dismissed it saying he didn't like his case against forumit (and cases against vets in genera)l, but that he agreed with the conclusion. i.e. "your case sucks, but I also think forumite is scum"
I don't see why that makes him scummy. Hopeless' case+ Show Spoiler +On September 04 2012 13:18 Hopeless1der wrote:Supposing we table the nosy-neighbor discussion(which appears to still be going strong), I would like to point out my take on Forumite: Show nested quote +On September 04 2012 09:36 Forumite wrote:On September 04 2012 09:12 Mattchew wrote: I am a nosy neighbor. Anyone else with this role should insta-claim as well.
The reason people policy lynch people like BM and Grush is because they get by into later in the game because they are unreadable. This is because they barely actually play the game and if you end up in lylo with one of them left, you've basically already lost. I completely understand anyone wanting to policy lynch them, but we should also not allow them to be off the hook for some sort of scum read during the day.
That being said, I remember thinking to myself that I don't hate BM's play in the last few games I have been in with him. I do not want to policy lynch today.
Why would you claim this? You eliminated yourself as a possible blue from scums list of townies, and it´s not like you doing this eliminates you as a scum suspect. If someone see you visiting a player who dies the we´re lynching you anyway. "We're lynching you anyway" Not cool. First, I disagree with the notion that revealing yourself as a nosy neighbor is scummy. Oh wait, Forumite didn't really say that. He didn't really say much of anything here if you ask me, but back to the point of "lynching you anyways", I don't like the blanket statements from Forumite. Here's another one: Show nested quote +On September 04 2012 09:46 Forumite wrote:On September 04 2012 09:42 BlackMamba24 wrote:On September 04 2012 09:27 Forumite wrote:On September 04 2012 09:07 BlackMamba24 wrote: I mean that blues should do what they feel is best with their own judgment and ignore any direction from the "town" Sorry, I should have been more specific. I wondered about this phrase: On September 04 2012 07:55 BlackMamba24 wrote: Never lynch someone just because they wouldn't claim to the town leader or whatever, that's asinine, asiten, asieleven, asitwelve, etc. What is there to explain? There's a difference between lynching someone for not backing themselves up after they're caught lying or whatever and lynching someone because they don't trust the town circle. It sounded weird. It´s common for the voteleader to be lynched unless he claims (convincingly). As an aside, "It sounded weird" is not a phrase I like to see. Immediately makes me suspicious. Show nested quote +On September 04 2012 09:55 Forumite wrote:On September 04 2012 09:43 Mattchew wrote:On September 04 2012 09:36 Forumite wrote:On September 04 2012 09:12 Mattchew wrote: I am a nosy neighbor. Anyone else with this role should insta-claim as well.
The reason people policy lynch people like BM and Grush is because they get by into later in the game because they are unreadable. This is because they barely actually play the game and if you end up in lylo with one of them left, you've basically already lost. I completely understand anyone wanting to policy lynch them, but we should also not allow them to be off the hook for some sort of scum read during the day.
That being said, I remember thinking to myself that I don't hate BM's play in the last few games I have been in with him. I do not want to policy lynch today.
Why would you claim this? You eliminated yourself as a possible blue from scums list of townies, and it´s not like you doing this eliminates you as a scum suspect. If someone see you visiting a player who dies the we´re lynching you anyway. Because there is no town benefit to me hiding this information. and for all everyone knows I could be a blue role trying to avoid being incorrectly tracked as well if I get tracked to a dead person atleast there will be something to think about before mislynching me Lying to town as a blue is a bad idea. If you fakeclaim nosy neighbor to fool scum, then you risk getting lynched by town. You are still going to draw a few trackers during the first few nights, just to make sure that you are really visiting people at random with no effect, so because of this you might actually be hurting town by distracting blues. Why are trackers going to be inclined to 'verify' a nosy neighbor claim? Even if Mattchew is scum, he just needs to do something and his claim is still up in the air. Why is Forumite trying to manipulate our blues? There's also the point about lying as a blue. How about lying in general to the town? There isn't any value in this statement. Town is supposedly harmed because our Trackers have to make sure Mattchew is really visiting random people with no effect. And then they get a confirmed townie out of the exchange. Wait, how does that hurt us again?
Show nested quote +On September 04 2012 10:00 Forumite wrote:On September 04 2012 09:55 slOosh wrote:On September 04 2012 09:05 Forumite wrote:Finished with page 12. On September 04 2012 08:01 slOosh wrote:On September 04 2012 07:58 Toadesstern wrote:On September 04 2012 07:56 slOosh wrote: Hapa, what is your idea of a town circle and how does it help us find / lynch / kill scum?
Toad - How is that useless stuff that has nothing to do with the game? The setup changed and maybe people haven't read the updates. I've asked you once and I'll do it again, what else do you want to talk about? I don't know what you want to talk about. I'm talking about your useless post being useless. Well BlackMamba's recent post just shows that people can miss information. My post has already proven itself useful, and your opening post which tries to discredit mine has not. Do you think I'm scum by my first post? What is your problem with Toades? Do you think he´s deliberately disruptive? What makes you think I think that? Let me rephrase: What is your problem with Toades play in this game? You were reacting very strongly to a random vote coming right at the beginning of the game. Dat Over-reaction: Show nested quote +On September 04 2012 07:42 slOosh wrote: Cool ... you wanna talk about something else? Show nested quote +On September 04 2012 07:56 slOosh wrote: Hapa, what is your idea of a town circle and how does it help us find / lynch / kill scum?
Toad - How is that useless stuff that has nothing to do with the game? The setup changed and maybe people haven't read the updates. I've asked you once and I'll do it again, what else do you want to talk about? And then of course slo0sh himself points out: Show nested quote +On September 04 2012 10:17 slOosh wrote:On September 04 2012 10:00 Forumite wrote:On September 04 2012 09:55 slOosh wrote:On September 04 2012 09:05 Forumite wrote:Finished with page 12. On September 04 2012 08:01 slOosh wrote:On September 04 2012 07:58 Toadesstern wrote:On September 04 2012 07:56 slOosh wrote: Hapa, what is your idea of a town circle and how does it help us find / lynch / kill scum?
Toad - How is that useless stuff that has nothing to do with the game? The setup changed and maybe people haven't read the updates. I've asked you once and I'll do it again, what else do you want to talk about? I don't know what you want to talk about. I'm talking about your useless post being useless. Well BlackMamba's recent post just shows that people can miss information. My post has already proven itself useful, and your opening post which tries to discredit mine has not. Do you think I'm scum by my first post? What is your problem with Toades? Do you think he´s deliberately disruptive? What makes you think I think that? Let me rephrase: What is your problem with Toades play in this game? You were reacting very strongly to a random vote coming right at the beginning of the game. I reacted strongly because there was no grounds for the vote / read. I still have a problem with the fact that he keeps emphasizing the uselessness of the post (it isn't, because as clearly seen that people can miss setup information), which I take as soft discrediting of my posts in general. I'm not claiming my opening post is super useful, but to call it useless is unwarranted. That said I can see this coming from a town perspective, so my problem with his play thus far is a matter of taste rather than alignment. On September 04 2012 10:04 Z-BosoN wrote:On September 04 2012 09:55 slOosh wrote:On September 04 2012 09:05 Forumite wrote:Finished with page 12. On September 04 2012 08:01 slOosh wrote:On September 04 2012 07:58 Toadesstern wrote:On September 04 2012 07:56 slOosh wrote: Hapa, what is your idea of a town circle and how does it help us find / lynch / kill scum?
Toad - How is that useless stuff that has nothing to do with the game? The setup changed and maybe people haven't read the updates. I've asked you once and I'll do it again, what else do you want to talk about? I don't know what you want to talk about. I'm talking about your useless post being useless. Well BlackMamba's recent post just shows that people can miss information. My post has already proven itself useful, and your opening post which tries to discredit mine has not. Do you think I'm scum by my first post? What is your problem with Toades? Do you think he´s deliberately disruptive? What makes you think I think that? Um... this: " My post has already proven itself useful, and your opening post which tries to discredit mine has not" You are saying that he tries to discredit you ---> you think he tried to discredit you ---> if he tried to discredit you, you are saying he wanted to do this and is being deliberately disruptive. Why not just straight answer the question without adding another one? There is a difference in someone discrediting me and someone being deliberately disruptive. Forumite phrased the question in a way that seemingly put words in my mouth as I said the former but not the latter (or never intended to so I checked with my question). Specifically the last paragraph is what I want noted. Then again, slo0sh addressed the 'strong reaction' in the first part of that quote, but I don't think slo0sh reacted 'strongly' at all. Forumite is just stirring the pot here and not really being helpful to me. He looks like he's pushing discussion, but slo0sh was taking care of that all on his own. We didn't need Forumite to prompt him.
I see a lot of roundabout advice from Forumite on why claiming self-aware miller is terrible and how our blues are screwed for it. But nowhere does he tell us that Mattchew is scummy, just that he'll still be suspicious no matter what. His prodding at slo0sh dead-ended pretty quickly and he's ducked out of the thread after making this post: Show nested quote +On September 04 2012 10:01 Forumite wrote:On September 04 2012 10:00 Z-BosoN wrote: Hello folks ^^ I would appreciate it if someone could clear some things up, since I've never played in this setup yet. Right now I've noticed this new mechanic: visiting someone. A nosy neighbor will randomly visit someone. This will be caught up by the town watcher and/or tracker. Now what I don't understand: if a medic saves someone, or if a roleblocker blocks some, or if a Suicide Bomber plants a bomb somewhere, or if a goon tks someone, will they also "visit" this person? Yes, all nightactions, including mafia nightkills, can be detected by watchers and trackers. I´ve never seen you before. Have you been on TL-mafia long? What do you think about the game so far? I don't think his posts have contributed anything to getting scum lynched, and I think it is because Forumite is scum. ##Vote: Forumite+ Show Spoiler +Pregame answer for Rewok, I got curious when going through Forumite's filter: On September 03 2012 01:49 Forumite wrote:Show nested quote +On September 03 2012 00:51 Rewok wrote: There's a word for arguing for arguments sake but I can't remember it. Anybody want to help me out? No there isn't! + Show Spoiler + Eristic is kind of shitty it's based on some vauge stuff about Forumite's posting around the pre Palmar post Mattchew situation. Sure Forumite wasn't playing to his town meta then but it was still very early game so that wasn't enough to go on with so little time played.
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EBWOP: That last sentence was a mess, I was trying to say what Kreb ended up saying.
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On September 10 2012 06:07 Z-BosoN wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2012 05:53 imallinson wrote:On September 10 2012 05:47 Z-BosoN wrote:On September 10 2012 05:41 imallinson wrote: @Z-Boson I might just be missing it but I can't see toad shitting on hopeless' case in his filter. He dismissed it saying he didn't like his case against forumit (and cases against vets in genera)l, but that he agreed with the conclusion. i.e. "your case sucks, but I also think forumite is scum" I don't see why that makes him scummy. Hopeless' case + Show Spoiler +On September 04 2012 13:18 Hopeless1der wrote:Supposing we table the nosy-neighbor discussion(which appears to still be going strong), I would like to point out my take on Forumite: Show nested quote +On September 04 2012 09:36 Forumite wrote:On September 04 2012 09:12 Mattchew wrote: I am a nosy neighbor. Anyone else with this role should insta-claim as well.
The reason people policy lynch people like BM and Grush is because they get by into later in the game because they are unreadable. This is because they barely actually play the game and if you end up in lylo with one of them left, you've basically already lost. I completely understand anyone wanting to policy lynch them, but we should also not allow them to be off the hook for some sort of scum read during the day.
That being said, I remember thinking to myself that I don't hate BM's play in the last few games I have been in with him. I do not want to policy lynch today.
Why would you claim this? You eliminated yourself as a possible blue from scums list of townies, and it´s not like you doing this eliminates you as a scum suspect. If someone see you visiting a player who dies the we´re lynching you anyway. "We're lynching you anyway" Not cool. First, I disagree with the notion that revealing yourself as a nosy neighbor is scummy. Oh wait, Forumite didn't really say that. He didn't really say much of anything here if you ask me, but back to the point of "lynching you anyways", I don't like the blanket statements from Forumite. Here's another one: Show nested quote +On September 04 2012 09:46 Forumite wrote:On September 04 2012 09:42 BlackMamba24 wrote:On September 04 2012 09:27 Forumite wrote:On September 04 2012 09:07 BlackMamba24 wrote: I mean that blues should do what they feel is best with their own judgment and ignore any direction from the "town" Sorry, I should have been more specific. I wondered about this phrase: On September 04 2012 07:55 BlackMamba24 wrote: Never lynch someone just because they wouldn't claim to the town leader or whatever, that's asinine, asiten, asieleven, asitwelve, etc. What is there to explain? There's a difference between lynching someone for not backing themselves up after they're caught lying or whatever and lynching someone because they don't trust the town circle. It sounded weird. It´s common for the voteleader to be lynched unless he claims (convincingly). As an aside, "It sounded weird" is not a phrase I like to see. Immediately makes me suspicious. Show nested quote +On September 04 2012 09:55 Forumite wrote:On September 04 2012 09:43 Mattchew wrote:On September 04 2012 09:36 Forumite wrote:On September 04 2012 09:12 Mattchew wrote: I am a nosy neighbor. Anyone else with this role should insta-claim as well.
The reason people policy lynch people like BM and Grush is because they get by into later in the game because they are unreadable. This is because they barely actually play the game and if you end up in lylo with one of them left, you've basically already lost. I completely understand anyone wanting to policy lynch them, but we should also not allow them to be off the hook for some sort of scum read during the day.
That being said, I remember thinking to myself that I don't hate BM's play in the last few games I have been in with him. I do not want to policy lynch today.
Why would you claim this? You eliminated yourself as a possible blue from scums list of townies, and it´s not like you doing this eliminates you as a scum suspect. If someone see you visiting a player who dies the we´re lynching you anyway. Because there is no town benefit to me hiding this information. and for all everyone knows I could be a blue role trying to avoid being incorrectly tracked as well if I get tracked to a dead person atleast there will be something to think about before mislynching me Lying to town as a blue is a bad idea. If you fakeclaim nosy neighbor to fool scum, then you risk getting lynched by town. You are still going to draw a few trackers during the first few nights, just to make sure that you are really visiting people at random with no effect, so because of this you might actually be hurting town by distracting blues. Why are trackers going to be inclined to 'verify' a nosy neighbor claim? Even if Mattchew is scum, he just needs to do something and his claim is still up in the air. Why is Forumite trying to manipulate our blues? There's also the point about lying as a blue. How about lying in general to the town? There isn't any value in this statement. Town is supposedly harmed because our Trackers have to make sure Mattchew is really visiting random people with no effect. And then they get a confirmed townie out of the exchange. Wait, how does that hurt us again?
Show nested quote +On September 04 2012 10:00 Forumite wrote:On September 04 2012 09:55 slOosh wrote:On September 04 2012 09:05 Forumite wrote:Finished with page 12. On September 04 2012 08:01 slOosh wrote:On September 04 2012 07:58 Toadesstern wrote:On September 04 2012 07:56 slOosh wrote: Hapa, what is your idea of a town circle and how does it help us find / lynch / kill scum?
Toad - How is that useless stuff that has nothing to do with the game? The setup changed and maybe people haven't read the updates. I've asked you once and I'll do it again, what else do you want to talk about? I don't know what you want to talk about. I'm talking about your useless post being useless. Well BlackMamba's recent post just shows that people can miss information. My post has already proven itself useful, and your opening post which tries to discredit mine has not. Do you think I'm scum by my first post? What is your problem with Toades? Do you think he´s deliberately disruptive? What makes you think I think that? Let me rephrase: What is your problem with Toades play in this game? You were reacting very strongly to a random vote coming right at the beginning of the game. Dat Over-reaction: Show nested quote +On September 04 2012 07:42 slOosh wrote: Cool ... you wanna talk about something else? Show nested quote +On September 04 2012 07:56 slOosh wrote: Hapa, what is your idea of a town circle and how does it help us find / lynch / kill scum?
Toad - How is that useless stuff that has nothing to do with the game? The setup changed and maybe people haven't read the updates. I've asked you once and I'll do it again, what else do you want to talk about? And then of course slo0sh himself points out: Show nested quote +On September 04 2012 10:17 slOosh wrote:On September 04 2012 10:00 Forumite wrote:On September 04 2012 09:55 slOosh wrote:On September 04 2012 09:05 Forumite wrote:Finished with page 12. On September 04 2012 08:01 slOosh wrote:On September 04 2012 07:58 Toadesstern wrote:On September 04 2012 07:56 slOosh wrote: Hapa, what is your idea of a town circle and how does it help us find / lynch / kill scum?
Toad - How is that useless stuff that has nothing to do with the game? The setup changed and maybe people haven't read the updates. I've asked you once and I'll do it again, what else do you want to talk about? I don't know what you want to talk about. I'm talking about your useless post being useless. Well BlackMamba's recent post just shows that people can miss information. My post has already proven itself useful, and your opening post which tries to discredit mine has not. Do you think I'm scum by my first post? What is your problem with Toades? Do you think he´s deliberately disruptive? What makes you think I think that? Let me rephrase: What is your problem with Toades play in this game? You were reacting very strongly to a random vote coming right at the beginning of the game. I reacted strongly because there was no grounds for the vote / read. I still have a problem with the fact that he keeps emphasizing the uselessness of the post (it isn't, because as clearly seen that people can miss setup information), which I take as soft discrediting of my posts in general. I'm not claiming my opening post is super useful, but to call it useless is unwarranted. That said I can see this coming from a town perspective, so my problem with his play thus far is a matter of taste rather than alignment. On September 04 2012 10:04 Z-BosoN wrote:On September 04 2012 09:55 slOosh wrote:On September 04 2012 09:05 Forumite wrote:Finished with page 12. On September 04 2012 08:01 slOosh wrote:On September 04 2012 07:58 Toadesstern wrote:On September 04 2012 07:56 slOosh wrote: Hapa, what is your idea of a town circle and how does it help us find / lynch / kill scum?
Toad - How is that useless stuff that has nothing to do with the game? The setup changed and maybe people haven't read the updates. I've asked you once and I'll do it again, what else do you want to talk about? I don't know what you want to talk about. I'm talking about your useless post being useless. Well BlackMamba's recent post just shows that people can miss information. My post has already proven itself useful, and your opening post which tries to discredit mine has not. Do you think I'm scum by my first post? What is your problem with Toades? Do you think he´s deliberately disruptive? What makes you think I think that? Um... this: " My post has already proven itself useful, and your opening post which tries to discredit mine has not" You are saying that he tries to discredit you ---> you think he tried to discredit you ---> if he tried to discredit you, you are saying he wanted to do this and is being deliberately disruptive. Why not just straight answer the question without adding another one? There is a difference in someone discrediting me and someone being deliberately disruptive. Forumite phrased the question in a way that seemingly put words in my mouth as I said the former but not the latter (or never intended to so I checked with my question). Specifically the last paragraph is what I want noted. Then again, slo0sh addressed the 'strong reaction' in the first part of that quote, but I don't think slo0sh reacted 'strongly' at all. Forumite is just stirring the pot here and not really being helpful to me. He looks like he's pushing discussion, but slo0sh was taking care of that all on his own. We didn't need Forumite to prompt him.
I see a lot of roundabout advice from Forumite on why claiming self-aware miller is terrible and how our blues are screwed for it. But nowhere does he tell us that Mattchew is scummy, just that he'll still be suspicious no matter what. His prodding at slo0sh dead-ended pretty quickly and he's ducked out of the thread after making this post: Show nested quote +On September 04 2012 10:01 Forumite wrote:On September 04 2012 10:00 Z-BosoN wrote: Hello folks ^^ I would appreciate it if someone could clear some things up, since I've never played in this setup yet. Right now I've noticed this new mechanic: visiting someone. A nosy neighbor will randomly visit someone. This will be caught up by the town watcher and/or tracker. Now what I don't understand: if a medic saves someone, or if a roleblocker blocks some, or if a Suicide Bomber plants a bomb somewhere, or if a goon tks someone, will they also "visit" this person? Yes, all nightactions, including mafia nightkills, can be detected by watchers and trackers. I´ve never seen you before. Have you been on TL-mafia long? What do you think about the game so far? I don't think his posts have contributed anything to getting scum lynched, and I think it is because Forumite is scum. ##Vote: Forumite+ Show Spoiler +Pregame answer for Rewok, I got curious when going through Forumite's filter: On September 03 2012 01:49 Forumite wrote:Show nested quote +On September 03 2012 00:51 Rewok wrote: There's a word for arguing for arguments sake but I can't remember it. Anybody want to help me out? No there isn't! + Show Spoiler + Eristic is kind of shitty it's based on some vauge stuff about Forumite's posting around the pre Palmar post Mattchew situation. Sure Forumite wasn't playing to his town meta then but it was still very early game so that wasn't enough to go on with so little time played. And where did I say this made him scummy? Did you read my post? I actually said he was consistent in this regard. I was trying to peg him down later in case he didn't make a proper case. I said he stinks because of his good-bye post, which I thought suspicious. I was thinking you were trying to say toad was your top scum read and I've realised I could be completely wrong.
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On September 10 2012 07:17 Toadesstern wrote: Why are we missing 2 mafia KP Z-Boson? I only remember one:
Ottox got (probably) shot by a townvig BM24 got (probably) bombed by the suicidebomber BC got single-stacked by GK according to BKE
He is assuming a mafia vig. Given that there are only two dead from last night I'm starting to think that isn't the case.
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On September 10 2012 07:47 grush57 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2012 07:44 Bill Murray wrote: I actually like Shady Sand's Hapahauli vote. If Hapahauli takes off, I will definitely join. I also found something from Sloosh that makes me not really care about him as much. He died.................................. THEREFORE SOMEONE VIGGIED HIM AND YOU ARE MAFIA AND DIDNT REALIZE Is that actually a scumslip or is he just too lazy to read the day post?
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On September 10 2012 10:31 slOosh wrote:Alright, had a chance to catch up and read up. I am getting iffy feelings from Forumite, but I'm going to wait on his evaluations of rereads to decide what he is. Show nested quote +On September 09 2012 06:42 imallinson wrote: I've been out all day and caught up with the thread on the bus home. The day is almost over so sorry if this is a bit hasty. I'm not buying BKE's watcher claim.
First a few assumptions I'm making: 1) Mafia has one vig thus had effectively three kp night one not including GK's bomb. 2) Mafia used all their kp. Someone suggested they saved some to out blues but that seems like it would only work if pressure was being put on that blue so I think it's unlikely. 3) Mafia did not shoot Ottox.
If BKE is watcher then GK must have bombed BM and shot BC without a double stack. Therefore we are missing two kp. The only way for this to happen is a combination of a medic/jailer getting a lucky save, a scum shot hit an assassin or the jailer rb'd a scum.
To me this seems very unlikely because BC seems like the better bomb target and barring a medic saving BKE he should be dead. Also missing two kp feels really fishy to me. One getting blocked I could understand but two seems a little far fetched given the information available at the time (that no one apart from the two dead people seemed that town). What made you assume that mafia had a vig?
Nothing in particular. I was just assuming that the scum team had one of each power roles. I didn't have much to go on and BKE seemed scummy to me for other reasons so I thought his claim was a lie. The logic is a little on the circular side but at the time it made sense. Given that BKE was a watcher thus two kp is missing from night one and only two kp is there night two I'm starting to think that assumption was wrong.
No idea why BM wants to lynch me. Then again I have no idea why BM does anything he does. I'm sure he will enlighten us all later but until then I'm just going to ignore that.
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The case against Forumite seems pretty damning and stuff like the weak vote on Z-boson doesn't make him look more town. My only reservation is that I really don't like BM's attempt to claim he is confirmed town and Z-boson backing that up. Vig seems like someone mafia would like to keep alive unless they had their gun aimed at one of their own so I don't buy the "I knew austin was vig day one so I can't be scum" argument. Obviously both Forumite and a Z-Boson/BM team both being scum seems very unlikely. I think Forumite is probably the best looking lynch at the moment but I think Z-Boson and BM need a good look at if he turns out to not be scum. Final thing to note I'm still not fond of Gravan's posting. He is lurking in the shadows only posting a minimum amount to seem like he is contributing.
##Vote: Forumite
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On September 11 2012 07:34 Mementoss wrote: I read all of day 3 and no one gave a good reason why they are voting forumite. Can someone explain? I will get to reading through the game eventually but, the way this day is going its just killing discussion.
Everyone is probably going off of toad's case.
On September 11 2012 07:24 Forumite wrote: And there goes D3.
Come on guys, ignore the wagon for a while, where are the other scum? When I flip town, who is your next target? I´ve been away a few hours and the only thing that´s happened is that everyone´s said they want to lynch me. Doesn´t anyone have something else to add?
Currently you are looking the most scummy. If you do flip town I'd say the best bet for scum would be Z-Boson. You've voted for him but haven't put much of a reason for people to follow you.
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On September 11 2012 19:32 Forumite wrote:Show nested quote +On September 11 2012 19:09 mkfuba07 wrote:On September 11 2012 18:20 Forumite wrote:On September 11 2012 09:27 mkfuba07 wrote:On September 11 2012 08:01 Forumite wrote:On September 11 2012 07:54 mkfuba07 wrote:I've put my z-boson investigation on hold (more accurate to say it never started, since I just recently woke up) so that I could weigh in on Forumite. I don't know what to add that hasn't been mentioned already, but his "I guess I kind of looked scummy" post is the what's most convincing for me. I hadn't found his vote post to be very suspicious, since it was clear at that point that Mattchew had lied and was clearly scum. This indicates him being defensive without reason. In that same post he tells Rewok to stop looking for other scum, since we already caught one that day. I didn't understand that when he wrote it, and I still don't get it. Why stop scumhunting just because we've found a confirmed scum? Then there's smaller things, like accusing Mav of being scum essentially because he "...defended a confirmed scum during the crucial time during which Matts scumbuddies might have tried to save him." Isn't the time while the fakeclaim is unconfirmed the time when someone is most likely to be unsure about a lynch on someone? If I were in the game at that time I would have likely had second-thoughts about a Matt lynch as well. If there was more to that case that I'm missing, then let me know. I'm still looking at z-boson's filter because I think he's suspicious as well, but I feel comfortable with my vote on Forumite. ##Vote Forumite Who the hell are you? Where did you come from, and why do you drop such a scummy post? Seriously? "I´m happy with lynching Forumite so I´ll stop looking for other scum now"? I replaced in for Lvdr and have been catching up on the over 80 pages of the game. Is there something about my post that you find scummy aside from the single sentence at the end that you misrepresented? I never said I wasn't looking for other scum. I actually said that despite being fine with a lynch on you (read: I think you're scummy) I'm still going to read through z-boson's filter because I believe he's scummy as well. You somehow inferred the opposite. Strange. You were one of a few people I was suspicious of after reading through the thread. I am going to look through z-boson's filter again and post my thoughts on him after I've done so. My vote may change, it may not. Basically, I don't currently feel that a vote on you is wasted. You replaced in, which is all good and well, but you still inherit the scummyness of the previous player. I´m forced to hold you to a higher standard, so when I see your post which is about how you can possibly accept voting for me, instead of the candidate you were looking at, the one I most want you to lynch, it´s irritating in all sorts of ways. You are a scummy player blaming me for distracting you from your highest scumread, that you say is Z-boson, so once this is all over you can say that Z-boson was the one you wanted to lynch the whole time. Wishy-washy. You also misinterpret what I meant in those posts. I´m suspicious of Mav because if he is scum, then he´d have a reason to softdefend Matt and provide alternative candidates when it was possible to do so, townies could do that too but there´s no motivation behind it unless there´s a big flaw in the case, and they really have a good alternative candidate. I´m also fairly sure I never told Rewok to stop scumhunting, what I meant was that when you have candidate X up for a lynch, then it´s a bad idea to try and build cases on based on X being scum. X is lynched on his own scummyness, if you are going to lynch Y then he has to be a good candidate on his own, UNTIL X flips and this puts Y into some kind of suspicious interaction with a confirmed scum. Lynch the scummyest one and build cases based on association AFTER the flip. I guess I can accept inheriting Lvdr's scumminess, though it consists entirely of lurking 100% of the time. I can't defend myself against his complete absence from the thread, however, so I'll just leave it at that. I'm in no way blaming you for distracting me from my highest scumread, and have no intention of ignoring ZB. I'm going through his filter now, deciding if all of the "off feelings" I've had have been actually scummy or just bad play. What are your current thoughts on Mav? You said you want Hopeless to die. Is ZB no longer your strongest scumread then? I´ve got too many scumreads and I´m weighing back and forth on some of them. The strongest ones are Z-Boson and Bill Murray, slightly less sure about Mav and Hopeless1der, with about half the rest as scummy. I´ll post the full list before the lynch if it´s still on me.
What would be really helpful is if you actually made a case now. You said before that you thought day three was going to be a waste now. Surely you actually contributing something, besides saying a few people are scummy, would help to alleviate that. You posting vague reads on people doesn't help town lynch scum which is the reason everyone is voting for your lynch in the first place.
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On September 11 2012 22:40 Forumite wrote:Show nested quote +On September 11 2012 22:25 imallinson wrote:On September 11 2012 19:32 Forumite wrote:On September 11 2012 19:09 mkfuba07 wrote:On September 11 2012 18:20 Forumite wrote:On September 11 2012 09:27 mkfuba07 wrote:On September 11 2012 08:01 Forumite wrote:On September 11 2012 07:54 mkfuba07 wrote:I've put my z-boson investigation on hold (more accurate to say it never started, since I just recently woke up) so that I could weigh in on Forumite. I don't know what to add that hasn't been mentioned already, but his "I guess I kind of looked scummy" post is the what's most convincing for me. I hadn't found his vote post to be very suspicious, since it was clear at that point that Mattchew had lied and was clearly scum. This indicates him being defensive without reason. In that same post he tells Rewok to stop looking for other scum, since we already caught one that day. I didn't understand that when he wrote it, and I still don't get it. Why stop scumhunting just because we've found a confirmed scum? Then there's smaller things, like accusing Mav of being scum essentially because he "...defended a confirmed scum during the crucial time during which Matts scumbuddies might have tried to save him." Isn't the time while the fakeclaim is unconfirmed the time when someone is most likely to be unsure about a lynch on someone? If I were in the game at that time I would have likely had second-thoughts about a Matt lynch as well. If there was more to that case that I'm missing, then let me know. I'm still looking at z-boson's filter because I think he's suspicious as well, but I feel comfortable with my vote on Forumite. ##Vote Forumite Who the hell are you? Where did you come from, and why do you drop such a scummy post? Seriously? "I´m happy with lynching Forumite so I´ll stop looking for other scum now"? I replaced in for Lvdr and have been catching up on the over 80 pages of the game. Is there something about my post that you find scummy aside from the single sentence at the end that you misrepresented? I never said I wasn't looking for other scum. I actually said that despite being fine with a lynch on you (read: I think you're scummy) I'm still going to read through z-boson's filter because I believe he's scummy as well. You somehow inferred the opposite. Strange. You were one of a few people I was suspicious of after reading through the thread. I am going to look through z-boson's filter again and post my thoughts on him after I've done so. My vote may change, it may not. Basically, I don't currently feel that a vote on you is wasted. You replaced in, which is all good and well, but you still inherit the scummyness of the previous player. I´m forced to hold you to a higher standard, so when I see your post which is about how you can possibly accept voting for me, instead of the candidate you were looking at, the one I most want you to lynch, it´s irritating in all sorts of ways. You are a scummy player blaming me for distracting you from your highest scumread, that you say is Z-boson, so once this is all over you can say that Z-boson was the one you wanted to lynch the whole time. Wishy-washy. You also misinterpret what I meant in those posts. I´m suspicious of Mav because if he is scum, then he´d have a reason to softdefend Matt and provide alternative candidates when it was possible to do so, townies could do that too but there´s no motivation behind it unless there´s a big flaw in the case, and they really have a good alternative candidate. I´m also fairly sure I never told Rewok to stop scumhunting, what I meant was that when you have candidate X up for a lynch, then it´s a bad idea to try and build cases on based on X being scum. X is lynched on his own scummyness, if you are going to lynch Y then he has to be a good candidate on his own, UNTIL X flips and this puts Y into some kind of suspicious interaction with a confirmed scum. Lynch the scummyest one and build cases based on association AFTER the flip. I guess I can accept inheriting Lvdr's scumminess, though it consists entirely of lurking 100% of the time. I can't defend myself against his complete absence from the thread, however, so I'll just leave it at that. I'm in no way blaming you for distracting me from my highest scumread, and have no intention of ignoring ZB. I'm going through his filter now, deciding if all of the "off feelings" I've had have been actually scummy or just bad play. What are your current thoughts on Mav? You said you want Hopeless to die. Is ZB no longer your strongest scumread then? I´ve got too many scumreads and I´m weighing back and forth on some of them. The strongest ones are Z-Boson and Bill Murray, slightly less sure about Mav and Hopeless1der, with about half the rest as scummy. I´ll post the full list before the lynch if it´s still on me. What would be really helpful is if you actually made a case now. You said before that you thought day three was going to be a waste now. Surely you actually contributing something, besides saying a few people are scummy, would help to alleviate that. You posting vague reads on people doesn't help town lynch scum which is the reason everyone is voting for your lynch in the first place. I could say the same about you. You gave your reasons to vote me, but it was basically agreeing with everyone else. Why don´t you make a case on me? What in this game have I done that´s been actively anti-Town? We know Z-Boson tried to divert the case on Matt and happily chatted away with GK, him and GK having a little dance of friendly FoS back and forth. Don´t you think that´s suspicious? I'll admit that most of my reason for voting for you was sheeping toad's argument. I'll give your filter another read and see what pops out. As for ZB being chummy with GK I don't read that as being scummy. Scum would be the ones who knew GK was going to flip scum soon so would want to put as much distance between them as possible. The diversion on the Matt case is more scummy.
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Forumite:
First thing I noticed looking through your filter is this:
One lynch at a time. Once Matt is dead, we shut up during the night, and then try to figure out what his flip means tomorrow. We can´t lynch more than one target at a time, so we lynch the scummiest one and worry about finding the rest of the scumteam later. I don't like the fact you are trying to kill all discussion the rest of day one and night one. Just because we found scum day one doesn't mean we should sit around for 48 hours.
You do try and make cases against Mav and Hapa but all they are based on is a touch of buddying on Matt. You recently said the same about ZB but given that Hapa and Ottox defended Matt and are town its not a great reason to go on. It worries me that you are still trying to pull reads from the Matt situation when there is a lot more posts to go on now.
There are like 8 players that look weird during that crucial period in the game, and that´s without counting the lurkers. This is kind of why trying to get reads from that situation isn't that productive. I said something similar to Shady a while ago when he was trying to figure out where scum were bussing Matt. To me it seems off that all your reads are based on that one situation.
Z-Boson The main thing that seems really off is this:
Can we, with bloodyc0bbler's 100% certainty, assume that there necessarily is one, and just one watcher?? If not 100%, how likely is it? I, along with everyone else it seems, don't see why this is relevant. He is trying to say lynching a blue is ok if we have another spare. I read that as him knowing BKE was blue and trying to justify lynching him. That screams scum to me.
Then we get onto this:
Basically he's screaming out loud he knows austin is blue. Given how he was addressing austin, and the crumbs, it sounds reasonable, and is confirmed with this quote: Show nested quote +Seems really inactive, however, so I'm not calling off a potential vig shot there... *looks at austin* Which is made AFTER night 1. However, his "crumbs", were made BEFORE night one, as were his other posts. If he actually suspected austin being blue, as mafia, it would be extremely advantageous to outright kill austin. He would be catching a blue in day one. I don't believe mafia would have the balls to note this and still not kill austin. My only concern is the possibility of him just leaving crumbs everywhere with his random comments. If you note, there's a lot of stuff you basically can't understand. I'm inclined to believe BM, however, because from his filter he clearly treated austin differently, something in which he did not do with anybody else. My questions are only to avoid this "random crumbing" theory I have, because otherwise that should be like a 95% clear. followed an hour later by:
First of all, BM didn't answer my questions, because since you guys are so blind, he threw suspicion towards austin AFTER he "blue claimed him"!! This is surely not the attitude of someone who was "absolutely sure he saw a blue". Observe, this post came after his so called "crumbs" ... Bill Murray is SCUM and needs to die! This sudden flip from thinking BM is confirmed town to scum in the space of an hour makes no sense to me. In fact thinking BM was confirmed town in the first place makes no sense in itself.
Forumite still seems off to me but ZB's posting screams scum, much more so than Forumite's. How he handled the BKE thing was just plain weird and anti-town and the flip on BM makes no sense from a town perspective either.
##Unvote ##Vote: Z-Boson
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On September 12 2012 09:44 slOosh wrote:ARGGHHH!!!! This game is so annoying. ShaioPi I want you to answer this one before deadline: Mav - do you think he is scum? imallinson: any reason why you decided to snip out the timestamps in this post? Show nested quote +On September 12 2012 00:09 imallinson wrote:Z-BosonThe main thing that seems really off is this: Can we, with bloodyc0bbler's 100% certainty, assume that there necessarily is one, and just one watcher?? If not 100%, how likely is it? I, along with everyone else it seems, don't see why this is relevant. He is trying to say lynching a blue is ok if we have another spare. I read that as him knowing BKE was blue and trying to justify lynching him. That screams scum to me. Then we get onto this: Basically he's screaming out loud he knows austin is blue. Given how he was addressing austin, and the crumbs, it sounds reasonable, and is confirmed with this quote: Seems really inactive, however, so I'm not calling off a potential vig shot there... *looks at austin* Which is made AFTER night 1. However, his "crumbs", were made BEFORE night one, as were his other posts. If he actually suspected austin being blue, as mafia, it would be extremely advantageous to outright kill austin. He would be catching a blue in day one. I don't believe mafia would have the balls to note this and still not kill austin. My only concern is the possibility of him just leaving crumbs everywhere with his random comments. If you note, there's a lot of stuff you basically can't understand. I'm inclined to believe BM, however, because from his filter he clearly treated austin differently, something in which he did not do with anybody else. My questions are only to avoid this "random crumbing" theory I have, because otherwise that should be like a 95% clear. followed an hour later by: First of all, BM didn't answer my questions, because since you guys are so blind, he threw suspicion towards austin AFTER he "blue claimed him"!! This is surely not the attitude of someone who was "absolutely sure he saw a blue". Observe, this post came after his so called "crumbs" ... Bill Murray is SCUM and needs to die! This sudden flip from thinking BM is confirmed town to scum in the space of an hour makes no sense to me. In fact thinking BM was confirmed town in the first place makes no sense in itself. Forumite still seems off to me but ZB's posting screams scum, much more so than Forumite's. How he handled the BKE thing was just plain weird and anti-town and the flip on BM makes no sense from a town perspective either. ##Unvote ##Vote: Z-Boson Because you straight up lie in quoting Z-boson's two quotes which have a whole day between this post and this post?
I sniped out the time stamps because I copied just the bits of text from the post not the whole thing. As for those being a day apart I'm an idiot, I read 9:24 and 10:14 and didn't bother looking at the day. That flip makes a lot more sense given that time frame and I'm glad ZB didn't get lynched because of me messing up.
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On September 12 2012 07:50 Maverick32x wrote: Okay.
Just read through the latest lynch... I was planning on dropping my notes but it just would look cluttered so I'm going to settle with the people that I'm REALLY sure are mafia and give my explanation for it. I am ranking them in the order of my confidence in my read.
My top 3 are tied for number 1 reads.
ShiaoPi - Scummy. Really scummy. DISAPPEARS when the vote comes. <- this is copied straight out of my notes that I was taking.... Honestly.. just read through his filter/posts!! There is no way this guy is town. 0. No chance. I think he voted Z-Boson because he knew it would be a throw-away vote.
Shady Sands- just scummy. Hard defends Shiao. Argues with Hapa (town). DISAPPEARS when the vote comes. <- So similar to the play style of ShiaoPi and there seems to be some really slight buddying occurring. He continues to live in "Matthchew" land and never seems to snap into the current thread which kind of shows me a lack of understanding. His most recent attack on Gravan to be honest is just an attempt to push an early vote while scum is being successful.
Rewok- side steps responsibility constantly. He has ONE PAGE OF FILTER. (@!#*(@!* So either awful town, or scum.
DoYouHas Mementoss- Totally uninvolved. Voted me besides it having zero impact on the game. Scummy. His ONE saving grace is that he repped DoYouHas... the only problem with that is DoYouHas was kind of scummy.... and Mementoss is doing just about nothing to save that... Also Shady's 'coin flip' indicates that one of his options is scum... and its Mementoss.
Toadesstern- Random poker talk? Discusses roles bit. Rustles up the forumite case based off a different game. Makes an interesting accusation that either Grush OR sandy is scum… makes me think Grush is likely town and Shadey is scum based on my reads above. Defends Shady shortly after that "Or" post and soft attacks him same post indicating some sort of ambivalence about being too closely connected. DISAPPEARS when its voting time, even though he kind of was a major advocate of the Forumite lynch at the start.....
slosh- posts late. Softly attacks forumite. References past games a lot. Afks most of the game when discussions are getting active. Gets active on Forumite then gone. He references that scum's plan is likely to lay low.. which is exactly what he is doing.
So there you have it. It will take a miracle from God to get me to vote anyone but those top 3. The bottom 3 have some leverage to work with, but not much.
Does anyone else find this post really off. His 'top 3 scum reads' is just a list of lurkers there isn't anything substantive to go on. By now there should be more to build a case on than 'disappearing around the vote'.
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On September 12 2012 22:35 Kreb wrote: Is there any chance we could get a comment from Toad before its time for night kills? If not it might be good idea for doctors/jailkeepers to move their protection around to people who seem to be more similiar to what hapa/austin was. I imagine theres been quite a few people protecting Toad so far, and that could be up for discussion.
Also note: Im not suspicious of him (well, not more than the paranioa he pretty much asked for us to have regarding him :p), but since he was took the biggest part in the mislynch, it would be nice to know what he has to say about it and what he wants the next move to be. Theres already been two people throwing suspicions his way (Forumite, Grush). Just because he led a mislynch doesn't make him less town. Town players are perfectly capable of being wrong. If we start suspecting everyone who pushes a mislynch we won't have anyone pushing lynches at all.
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On September 12 2012 23:19 Kreb wrote:Show nested quote +On September 12 2012 23:15 Bill Murray wrote:On September 12 2012 23:12 Kreb wrote:On September 12 2012 23:04 Toadesstern wrote:On September 12 2012 22:50 Kreb wrote:On September 12 2012 22:43 imallinson wrote:On September 12 2012 22:35 Kreb wrote: Is there any chance we could get a comment from Toad before its time for night kills? If not it might be good idea for doctors/jailkeepers to move their protection around to people who seem to be more similiar to what hapa/austin was. I imagine theres been quite a few people protecting Toad so far, and that could be up for discussion.
Also note: Im not suspicious of him (well, not more than the paranioa he pretty much asked for us to have regarding him :p), but since he was took the biggest part in the mislynch, it would be nice to know what he has to say about it and what he wants the next move to be. Theres already been two people throwing suspicions his way (Forumite, Grush). Just because he led a mislynch doesn't make him less town. Town players are perfectly capable of being wrong. If we start suspecting everyone who pushes a mislynch we won't have anyone pushing lynches at all. Of course. But given the fact that he pretty much told us we should be paranoid as fuck about him (which I very much am) due to how supposedly good he was as mafia, I at least think we could demand a comment. As I said Im not suspicious, Im just paranoid. I trusted him for this lynch, that trust took a bit of a hit. Im wondering if I should renew the trust or not. hey am back, haven't read a thing yet and yeah I agree with what you "proposed" although it's for a different reason. Only got like half an hour time until I've got to leave again but I'll have time later on (like 4 hours prior to deadline) to post something. However reasoning for medics considering me: I don't think medics / Jailers should be protecting me as well. Right now there's pretty much no way mafia is going to shoot me because people are getting paranoid about me. Mafia are probably not going to shoot me because they want that paranoia. Yeah I could be saying that as mafia as well giving an explanation why I survived yet another night but it really works both ways. For all I care, if you're paranoid just track me if you think I'm mafia and frankly I'd actually say that already happened given my "most people are afraid about me" post either n1 or n2 anyways. Of course if you're a tracker it's up to you when you want to track me because if I was mafia I could just tell people to track me and be the guy who's not delivering a KP (assuming more than 2 mafia alive). So waiting until we've got rid of another mafia might be the way to go for trackers, but it's up to you, I've got nothing to hide :p Cool. On topic of tracking and watching, whats your opinion there? Personally I feel tracking and watching should be pretty well spent on lurkers/low profile players. If you were mafia theres no way you'd be carrying out the kills. A watcher believing you to be town might have a good reason to. Catching your killer would be great should you go down tonight. But other than that option, I'd say watch/track low profile players, the information could be very important later in the game when where down to 8-10 players. Why? Because you're not low profile, and you don't want tracked? As per watching, no, that is terrible. if there are any watchers, DEFINITELY watch people who will be targetted. As per tracking, it can be beneficial depending on how the kill system works (whether or not they have to send a name in, or if it's random) because if they can protect good players, then I'd agree with you. Yea that was a stupid post by me, agreed. As for myself, Im probably not low profile enough to be a likely good tracking target I wouldnt say, no. If you disagree, feel free to track me. Only watch me Im you think I might get killed. Hmmm, I was sure mafia had to send in names on who killed who. Maybe I shouldnt have taken that for granted...
The mafia will designate a single member of it's faction to deliver each kill. No member of the mafia can deliver more than 1 KP every night. So a watcher would see the mafia member who actually delivers a kill and a tracker would see who a mafia member goes to when they kill..
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On September 13 2012 02:43 Z-BosoN wrote: @imallinson What do you make of Gravan? I was really suspicious of him night 1, he was one of my top scum reads due then. I kind of forgot about him after that because he started actually contributing a bit and the BKE case was much stronger. The way he dealt with the day 3 voting has made me suspicious of him again. Before the start of day 3 he says how much he dislikes the meta arguments + Show Spoiler +On September 10 2012 03:52 Gravan wrote: There is a lot of "in this game x player played like this" or, "y is a veteran, therefore the following is probable...". While I think these are fine as supporting arguments (since past tendencies/experience are relevant things to consider) I feel like all this talk of veterans and meta play is clouding and overtaking what people have actually said and how people have actually been playing. . The first thing we get day 3 is this + Show Spoiler +On September 12 2012 04:54 Gravan wrote: At this point, my viewpoint is as follows (on the big topics):
Bill Murray is still suspicious, but, really, who the fuck knows? Z-Boson is highly suspicious.
Forumite is highly suspicious, and very shifty. For somebody who is posting somewhat regularily, he hasn't done too much to defend himself other than point as many fingers as he can as quickly as he can - something that seems really scummy.
I wish we had another day to talk about this, heh.
##Vote Forumite. On September 12 2012 04:56 Gravan wrote: To be a bit more clear:
Bill Murray's posting is very difficult to read, and he claims to have had more knowledge than he really ought to have had. That said, he has apparently been playing mafia for a while so he could also have just made a good read.
Z-Boson is far too defensive for my liking - it seems like he thinks that every post that isn't in agreement with him, or that pulls the discussion away from his posts, is targeted at him. which seems to be the opposite of what he said in the previous post. If you look at what BM, Z-Boson and Forumite actually posted this game BM is by far the most scummy looking. It's only if you look at the meta argument that this changes. Yet Gravan votes for Forumite anyway. I look at that and see someone who tried to look like they were contributing in the first post then trying to hide and sheep the popular vote in the second which seems awfully scummy.
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@Z-Boson I don't know if you've completely buggered off till after the day post but it would really help your claim if you actually told us why you are 100% sure toad is scum.
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@ZB Why out of all the people do you think I'm scum? I actually answered your post as soon as I saw it. Mainly I was just confused by it but I still answered. It would be nice to actually have a reason seeing as you are the third person to say they are suspicious of me without one.
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It looks like scum bought ZBs claim, then again so did the medic (or thought he was scum). At least toad looks very town now.
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Also seeing as ZBs reason for thinking I was scum was that I didn't reply to him
On September 13 2012 06:02 imallinson wrote: @Z-Boson I don't know if you've completely buggered off till after the day post but it would really help your claim if you actually told us why you are 100% sure toad is scum. This was after searching through toad's filter for ZB's magical evidence and coming up empty.
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On September 13 2012 07:17 Kreb wrote: Theres gotta be a Vig at work here? mkfuba.... Mafia shot Z-Boson + someone else who got saved? Vig shog mkfuba?
Why do you think mkfuba was a vig shot?
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Final thing ala this:
On September 13 2012 03:04 imallinson wrote:Show nested quote +On September 13 2012 02:43 Z-BosoN wrote: @imallinson What do you make of Gravan? I was really suspicious of him night 1, he was one of my top scum reads due then. I kind of forgot about him after that because he started actually contributing a bit and the BKE case was much stronger. The way he dealt with the day 3 voting has made me suspicious of him again. Before the start of day 3 he says how much he dislikes the meta arguments + Show Spoiler +On September 10 2012 03:52 Gravan wrote: There is a lot of "in this game x player played like this" or, "y is a veteran, therefore the following is probable...". While I think these are fine as supporting arguments (since past tendencies/experience are relevant things to consider) I feel like all this talk of veterans and meta play is clouding and overtaking what people have actually said and how people have actually been playing. . The first thing we get day 3 is this + Show Spoiler +On September 12 2012 04:54 Gravan wrote: At this point, my viewpoint is as follows (on the big topics):
Bill Murray is still suspicious, but, really, who the fuck knows? Z-Boson is highly suspicious.
Forumite is highly suspicious, and very shifty. For somebody who is posting somewhat regularily, he hasn't done too much to defend himself other than point as many fingers as he can as quickly as he can - something that seems really scummy.
I wish we had another day to talk about this, heh.
##Vote Forumite. On September 12 2012 04:56 Gravan wrote: To be a bit more clear:
Bill Murray's posting is very difficult to read, and he claims to have had more knowledge than he really ought to have had. That said, he has apparently been playing mafia for a while so he could also have just made a good read.
Z-Boson is far too defensive for my liking - it seems like he thinks that every post that isn't in agreement with him, or that pulls the discussion away from his posts, is targeted at him. which seems to be the opposite of what he said in the previous post. If you look at what BM, Z-Boson and Forumite actually posted this game BM is by far the most scummy looking. It's only if you look at the meta argument that this changes. Yet Gravan votes for Forumite anyway. I look at that and see someone who tried to look like they were contributing in the first post then trying to hide and sheep the popular vote in the second which seems awfully scummy. ##Vote: Gravan
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On September 13 2012 07:22 Kreb wrote:Show nested quote +On September 13 2012 07:19 imallinson wrote:On September 13 2012 07:17 Kreb wrote: Theres gotta be a Vig at work here? mkfuba.... Mafia shot Z-Boson + someone else who got saved? Vig shog mkfuba? Why do you think mkfuba was a vig shot? Because hes been lurking. Why would a mafia wanna shoot him? He's no threat to the mafia as of now. Plus if mafia bought Z-Bosons claim they'd wanna kill him to also kill Toad (supposing Toad is town). They did kill ZB and not toad. That makes it look like scum bought the claim and shot ZB aiming to get toad as well.
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On September 13 2012 07:28 Kreb wrote:Show nested quote +On September 13 2012 07:26 imallinson wrote:On September 13 2012 07:22 Kreb wrote:On September 13 2012 07:19 imallinson wrote:On September 13 2012 07:17 Kreb wrote: Theres gotta be a Vig at work here? mkfuba.... Mafia shot Z-Boson + someone else who got saved? Vig shog mkfuba? Why do you think mkfuba was a vig shot? Because hes been lurking. Why would a mafia wanna shoot him? He's no threat to the mafia as of now. Plus if mafia bought Z-Bosons claim they'd wanna kill him to also kill Toad (supposing Toad is town). They did kill ZB and not toad. That makes it look like scum bought the claim and shot ZB aiming to get toad as well. Yes, thats what I thought too. But thats 1KP on Boson. Would the 2nd KP really be on mkfuba? I dont see that making sense.... Well it was either on mkfuba or someone else who got saved. I guess seeing as austin didn't seem to know much about the Ottox kill and I can't see that being scum kp we could have a second vig.
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On September 14 2012 04:42 Gravan wrote:As a final aside, imallinson is critical of Mav's scumreads being based on lurkers, and is now voting on me on that very basis. Show nested quote +On September 12 2012 21:12 imallinson wrote:On September 12 2012 07:50 Maverick32x wrote: Okay.
Just read through the latest lynch... I was planning on dropping my notes but it just would look cluttered so I'm going to settle with the people that I'm REALLY sure are mafia and give my explanation for it. I am ranking them in the order of my confidence in my read.
My top 3 are tied for number 1 reads.
ShiaoPi - Scummy. Really scummy. DISAPPEARS when the vote comes. <- this is copied straight out of my notes that I was taking.... Honestly.. just read through his filter/posts!! There is no way this guy is town. 0. No chance. I think he voted Z-Boson because he knew it would be a throw-away vote.
Shady Sands- just scummy. Hard defends Shiao. Argues with Hapa (town). DISAPPEARS when the vote comes. <- So similar to the play style of ShiaoPi and there seems to be some really slight buddying occurring. He continues to live in "Matthchew" land and never seems to snap into the current thread which kind of shows me a lack of understanding. His most recent attack on Gravan to be honest is just an attempt to push an early vote while scum is being successful.
Rewok- side steps responsibility constantly. He has ONE PAGE OF FILTER. (@!#*(@!* So either awful town, or scum.
DoYouHas Mementoss- Totally uninvolved. Voted me besides it having zero impact on the game. Scummy. His ONE saving grace is that he repped DoYouHas... the only problem with that is DoYouHas was kind of scummy.... and Mementoss is doing just about nothing to save that... Also Shady's 'coin flip' indicates that one of his options is scum... and its Mementoss.
Toadesstern- Random poker talk? Discusses roles bit. Rustles up the forumite case based off a different game. Makes an interesting accusation that either Grush OR sandy is scum… makes me think Grush is likely town and Shadey is scum based on my reads above. Defends Shady shortly after that "Or" post and soft attacks him same post indicating some sort of ambivalence about being too closely connected. DISAPPEARS when its voting time, even though he kind of was a major advocate of the Forumite lynch at the start.....
slosh- posts late. Softly attacks forumite. References past games a lot. Afks most of the game when discussions are getting active. Gets active on Forumite then gone. He references that scum's plan is likely to lay low.. which is exactly what he is doing.
So there you have it. It will take a miracle from God to get me to vote anyone but those top 3. The bottom 3 have some leverage to work with, but not much. Does anyone else find this post really off. His 'top 3 scum reads' is just a list of lurkers there isn't anything substantive to go on. By now there should be more to build a case on than 'disappearing around the vote'. Ok, this is just straight up bullshit. The reason why I'm voting you has nothing to do with you lurking. It's to do with you soft defending Matt day 1 but more this:
On September 13 2012 03:04 imallinson wrote:I was really suspicious of him night 1, he was one of my top scum reads due then. I kind of forgot about him after that because he started actually contributing a bit and the BKE case was much stronger. The way he dealt with the day 3 voting has made me suspicious of him again. Before the start of day 3 he says how much he dislikes the meta arguments + Show Spoiler +On September 10 2012 03:52 Gravan wrote: There is a lot of "in this game x player played like this" or, "y is a veteran, therefore the following is probable...". While I think these are fine as supporting arguments (since past tendencies/experience are relevant things to consider) I feel like all this talk of veterans and meta play is clouding and overtaking what people have actually said and how people have actually been playing. . The first thing we get day 3 is this + Show Spoiler +On September 12 2012 04:54 Gravan wrote: At this point, my viewpoint is as follows (on the big topics):
Bill Murray is still suspicious, but, really, who the fuck knows? Z-Boson is highly suspicious.
Forumite is highly suspicious, and very shifty. For somebody who is posting somewhat regularily, he hasn't done too much to defend himself other than point as many fingers as he can as quickly as he can - something that seems really scummy.
I wish we had another day to talk about this, heh.
##Vote Forumite. On September 12 2012 04:56 Gravan wrote: To be a bit more clear:
Bill Murray's posting is very difficult to read, and he claims to have had more knowledge than he really ought to have had. That said, he has apparently been playing mafia for a while so he could also have just made a good read.
Z-Boson is far too defensive for my liking - it seems like he thinks that every post that isn't in agreement with him, or that pulls the discussion away from his posts, is targeted at him. which seems to be the opposite of what he said in the previous post. If you look at what BM, Z-Boson and Forumite actually posted this game BM is by far the most scummy looking. It's only if you look at the meta argument that this changes. Yet Gravan votes for Forumite anyway. I look at that and see someone who tried to look like they were contributing in the first post then trying to hide and sheep the popular vote in the second which seems awfully scummy. The fact that you are lying about the case against you to make it seem less strong is just making me think you are scum even more.
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EBWOP: You also completely brushed aside what sloosh said about you with the same thing when his reasons for voting you weren't based on lurking. You are scum and need to die now.
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@mmtoss Mav fits the lurky scum picture really well. Honestly I can see them both being scum because Gravan has conveniently ignored the mav case in his recent posting. As for why Gravan over mav, I would have had them as equally scummy until Gravan lied about the case against him to make it seem weak.
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@Gravan Why do you keep insisting that the case against you is only based on day 1 and lurking when that isn't true. Also Shady isn't the only one to make a case against you.
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I find it interesting that the two top candidates for a lynch haven't voted for each other. This doesn't really make sense from a town perspective. If you are town you know 100% you are town and the same cannot be said for the other person. Surely in that case it is better for town to lynch the person you are not 100% sure is town. The only reason you wouldn't want to vote for the other person close to being lynched is if you were both scum. It's very unlikely at this point that shady or shiao are going to get lynched yet mav and gravan have their votes on them.
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... and then sloosh ninjas me and makes a shady lynch much more possible.
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On September 15 2012 01:51 Gravan wrote:Show nested quote +On September 15 2012 01:36 imallinson wrote: @Gravan Why do you keep insisting that the case against you is only based on day 1 and lurking when that isn't true. Also Shady isn't the only one to make a case against you. Then what is it? Really? What are the strong points out there? Well I'd like to know about this. + Show Spoiler +On September 13 2012 03:04 imallinson wrote:I was really suspicious of him night 1, he was one of my top scum reads due then. I kind of forgot about him after that because he started actually contributing a bit and the BKE case was much stronger. The way he dealt with the day 3 voting has made me suspicious of him again. Before the start of day 3 he says how much he dislikes the meta arguments + Show Spoiler +On September 10 2012 03:52 Gravan wrote: There is a lot of "in this game x player played like this" or, "y is a veteran, therefore the following is probable...". While I think these are fine as supporting arguments (since past tendencies/experience are relevant things to consider) I feel like all this talk of veterans and meta play is clouding and overtaking what people have actually said and how people have actually been playing. . The first thing we get day 3 is this + Show Spoiler +On September 12 2012 04:54 Gravan wrote: At this point, my viewpoint is as follows (on the big topics):
Bill Murray is still suspicious, but, really, who the fuck knows? Z-Boson is highly suspicious.
Forumite is highly suspicious, and very shifty. For somebody who is posting somewhat regularily, he hasn't done too much to defend himself other than point as many fingers as he can as quickly as he can - something that seems really scummy.
I wish we had another day to talk about this, heh.
##Vote Forumite. On September 12 2012 04:56 Gravan wrote: To be a bit more clear:
Bill Murray's posting is very difficult to read, and he claims to have had more knowledge than he really ought to have had. That said, he has apparently been playing mafia for a while so he could also have just made a good read.
Z-Boson is far too defensive for my liking - it seems like he thinks that every post that isn't in agreement with him, or that pulls the discussion away from his posts, is targeted at him. which seems to be the opposite of what he said in the previous post. If you look at what BM, Z-Boson and Forumite actually posted this game BM is by far the most scummy looking. It's only if you look at the meta argument that this changes. Yet Gravan votes for Forumite anyway. I look at that and see someone who tried to look like they were contributing in the first post then trying to hide and sheep the popular vote in the second which seems awfully scummy. Why were you so against meta lynches before day 3 but happy to lynch forumite based on toad's meta argument?
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Ok so Gravan actually answered my question half decently and sloosh's case is good. Especially the part about his explanation for voting matt. Feels like he is justifying it to himself because the reason town would vote matt is obvious.
##Unvote: Gravan ##Vote: StrongandBig
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that makes it 5 & 5 gravan is still set to be lynched
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On September 15 2012 06:59 Kreb wrote: This could be the best (or worst) play ever :p well we will find out really soon
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On September 15 2012 07:16 Shady Sands wrote: What the fuck is happening here? winning
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More seriously I'm thinking a Shady lynch seems like a decent idea. He has been super lurky all game and hasn't done any scum hunting. The ninja sheep voting and his strong town read on SnB really makes him look bad.
##Vote: ShadySands
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On September 17 2012 05:03 Kreb wrote: Well this thread died :p WCS Europe is distracting.
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I've been real busy with uni work which is why I've been a bit absent recently. I don't understand Shiao's reads. I don't see how the two last people to join the lynch on SnB are scum. If we were why the hell would we bus our team mate when the vote was 6 on Gravan and 4 on SnB. We could have easily just left it as it was and got a mislynch. Kreb's reads seem much more plausible as both BM and Grush have seemed really anti town all game and could see one or both of them being scum.
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What in that is a scum slip?
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On September 19 2012 04:29 grush57 wrote:We, we , we I'm talking in theoreticals. I'm saying if Shiao's reads are correct then why would have bussed SnB when there was no need to.
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On September 19 2012 17:22 ShiaoPi wrote:Okay I am pretty sure that the scumteam is Imallinson and Darthpunk.
Why? First off imallinson: All the things I pointed out in the night are still valid. Seeing Hopeless' flip actually strengthens the suspicion that I had about Imallinson switching to look "good" after a Gravan mislynch. As Hopeless was town he simply did not anticipate him switching 3 minutes prior to deadline. Imallinson switched 6 minutes prior to deadline, as hopeless was not posting during the time, I say that it was a pretty safe bet to have "bussed" SnB without the need to flip him, with a consequential gravan mislynch. As we know now, Hopeless messed that up. Imallinsons defense: Show nested quote +On September 19 2012 03:28 imallinson wrote: I've been real busy with uni work which is why I've been a bit absent recently. I don't understand Shiao's reads. I don't see how the two last people to join the lynch on SnB are scum. If we were why the hell would we bus our team mate when the vote was 6 on Gravan and 4 on SnB. We could have easily just left it as it was and got a mislynch. Kreb's reads seem much more plausible as both BM and Grush have seemed really anti town all game and could see one or both of them being scum. is only valid if Hopeless would have been red. He flipped green and now it gets even more obvious that imallinsons voteswitch was not consequential if Hopeless had not hammered SnB last minute. Since the daypost imallinson has not been to the thread again, I say he is scum. Hopefully (troll)town is willing to go along with me on this vote. ##vote: Imallinson If anything I'd say Hopeless being killed makes me look more town. Why, if I was scum, would I base my defence on someone who I know is going to die and who's dying makes me look really bad. I haven't been here since the day post due to trying to sleep/a bit of actually sleeping/waking up feeling like shit. If you look at my previous posting I've always either posted something quick if I had a strong read after the day post or nothing at all. As for the supposed bus of SnB it would make no sense from a scum perspective. Although I wouldn't know hopeless was around I knew Gravan was and if I was scum would have known he was town and would have switched his vote. As for who I think is scum I think Grush and BM look like a really obvious scum team. Your reason for for not thinking that is meta based and we've already had a terrible mislynch based on meta so I'm reluctant to go on that again. Both Grush and BM have been very anti town all game. You I see as definitely town because there is no reason for you to fake claim when you did. Darth is possibly scum but has generally played pro town so I'm much less sure about it than Grush or BM. ##Vote: Grush
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On September 19 2012 20:44 ShiaoPi wrote: If gravan had been mislynched, imallinson would have looked much better than all of us who were on Gravan, easily could have swayed town to lynch either SnB the next day, which would give imallinson even more town cred, or lynch one of the bandwagoners on gravan So your reason for me being scum is that I keep deliberately making myself look more scummy. How is that a reason for being scum? That behaviour makes no sense as town or scum. Thus we are left with me flipping from Gravan to SnB for another reason i.e. me thinking the case was better on SnB which is a town motivated play.
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On September 19 2012 20:52 ShiaoPi wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2012 20:34 imallinson wrote:On September 19 2012 17:22 ShiaoPi wrote:Okay I am pretty sure that the scumteam is Imallinson and Darthpunk.
Why? First off imallinson: All the things I pointed out in the night are still valid. Seeing Hopeless' flip actually strengthens the suspicion that I had about Imallinson switching to look "good" after a Gravan mislynch. As Hopeless was town he simply did not anticipate him switching 3 minutes prior to deadline. Imallinson switched 6 minutes prior to deadline, as hopeless was not posting during the time, I say that it was a pretty safe bet to have "bussed" SnB without the need to flip him, with a consequential gravan mislynch. As we know now, Hopeless messed that up. Imallinsons defense: On September 19 2012 03:28 imallinson wrote: I've been real busy with uni work which is why I've been a bit absent recently. I don't understand Shiao's reads. I don't see how the two last people to join the lynch on SnB are scum. If we were why the hell would we bus our team mate when the vote was 6 on Gravan and 4 on SnB. We could have easily just left it as it was and got a mislynch. Kreb's reads seem much more plausible as both BM and Grush have seemed really anti town all game and could see one or both of them being scum. is only valid if Hopeless would have been red. He flipped green and now it gets even more obvious that imallinsons voteswitch was not consequential if Hopeless had not hammered SnB last minute. Since the daypost imallinson has not been to the thread again, I say he is scum. Hopefully (troll)town is willing to go along with me on this vote. ##vote: Imallinson If anything I'd say Hopeless being killed makes me look more town. Why, if I was scum, would I base my defence on someone who I know is going to die and who's dying makes me look really bad. I haven't been here since the day post due to trying to sleep/a bit of actually sleeping/waking up feeling like shit. If you look at my previous posting I've always either posted something quick if I had a strong read after the day post or nothing at all. As for the supposed bus of SnB it would make no sense from a scum perspective. Although I wouldn't know hopeless was around I knew Gravan was and if I was scum would have known he was town and would have switched his vote. As for who I think is scum I think Grush and BM look like a really obvious scum team. Your reason for for not thinking that is meta based and we've already had a terrible mislynch based on meta so I'm reluctant to go on that again. Both Grush and BM have been very anti town all game. You I see as definitely town because there is no reason for you to fake claim when you did. Darth is possibly scum but has generally played pro town so I'm much less sure about it than Grush or BM. ##Vote: Grush Yes, I employed WIFOM in my read on you, but I believe more into my version of events than yours! Furthermore of note if you have me as secure townread, you know we are at lylo and you know I won't vote Grush based from my posts, why wouldn't you vote Darthpunk instead? You are doing the same as DP, splitting up towns (as if you are townie ) votes. geeeeeeet him!!! Because we still have a day and a half to go. Because I think Grush is a lot scummier than DP. Because I still think you can be persuaded. But since you've decided talking for the rest of the day is a waste of time I guess that was stupid of me.
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On September 19 2012 21:08 ShiaoPi wrote:ebwop: yeah that was "stupid" of you I am like deadset that it has to be you this cylce. Your entire reason for being "deadset" on me is me making mistakes. Mistakes that makes a lot more sense if I was town than scum.
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On September 19 2012 21:19 ShiaoPi wrote: this shit is as good as final, we either lynch imallinson today are we lose from my perspective. I read your scum teams, and I gave you my answer that I feel that grush is town this game and therefore with my nullish tell on BM its onto imallinson. Nothing will change my mind! But good try DP, try to cook up something new with allinson in the Scumqt :D The fact that you are so sure of this based on barely anything is really making me question the fact that you are town.
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Also
On September 19 2012 21:12 ShiaoPi wrote: Stupidity/mistakes are not exclusive to town, why should they be? I never said it was. Matt is proof of that. I'm saying the stupid you think I did makes a lot more sense from a town perspective than a scum one.
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On September 19 2012 21:31 ShiaoPi wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2012 21:30 imallinson wrote:On September 19 2012 21:19 ShiaoPi wrote: this shit is as good as final, we either lynch imallinson today are we lose from my perspective. I read your scum teams, and I gave you my answer that I feel that grush is town this game and therefore with my nullish tell on BM its onto imallinson. Nothing will change my mind! But good try DP, try to cook up something new with allinson in the Scumqt :D The fact that you are so sure of this based on barely anything is really making me question the fact that you are town. Then vote for me! I am as confirmed town as you can get by now, in this game. @DP: I am using a lot of smilies right now, since I am happy to have solved the game. GG!!! I didn't say you were scum I said you are tunnelling me based on barely anything which doesn't seem very town to me. Any way I'm going to be out for a few hours I'll have a look at everyone again when I get back.
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The thing I don't understand is how the hell ShiaoPi figured out me and DP were both scum, his case was kind of crazy. Having BM and grush as the last remaining town players is asking for trouble.
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On September 24 2012 07:29 Toadesstern wrote:Show nested quote +On September 24 2012 07:24 Toadesstern wrote:btw sorry at everyone for playing 140% hypno-toad. I totally intended my role to be played like a town aligned survivor and just not get lynched while randomly checking people and hoping the other assassin just gets lynched. And I really did that early on but after n1 was over (so starting something like 2nd half of d2 or something like that) I thought I had to make this game as impossible to scumhunt for town as possible or town will just crush mafia before I get the chance to win. Ultimately that almost got me lynched although I still played with a town mindset (just a gonzaw-style town mindset). So yeah, kind of saw myself forced to do a Palmar (from AC) although I didn't want to EBWOP, we're allowed to edit every post-game, right? :p Btw I really took a shot n1 and so did sloOsh I think. Most pro-town 3rd parties EVER. Yeah night one we shot both you and sloosh. It wasn't that you were looking really pro town then just an attempt to remove people we thought were dangerous. You got another shot the night ZB fake claimed as well. So much wasted kp
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