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On September 14 2012 21:55 Bill Murray wrote:
He could easily be scum at this point, and me still think you slipped. I'm leaning on him, actually, which is why I don't mind if he gets lynched at all (better if Rewok is going to be modkilled than a Rewok wagon) I just feel he has a role as opposed to being townie (see: mementoss's reaction)
Whoooooaaa.
You said:
Some lurkers are town and blue (like grav is) whereas Rewok is scum lurker (likely power role like scum vig/assassin)
Now you say
I'm leaning on him, actually, which is why I don't mind if he gets lynched at all
and
He could easily be scum at this point, and me still think you slipped
What the heck? So why was your read originally town and blue on Grav and "could easily be scum at this point" when Grav hasn't made a single post in the interim?
ebwop
What the heck? So why was your read originally town and blue on Grav but now is "could easily be scum at this point" when Grav hasn't made a single post in the interim?
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On September 14 2012 21:56 Toadesstern wrote:Show nested quote +On September 14 2012 21:49 Shady Sands wrote:On September 14 2012 21:46 Toadesstern wrote:
I read it and he's right you are.
I doubt you'd be rolefishing so openly as mafia though.
Obviously a mafia would want to know whether the townie (assuming you are mafia and BM is town) is right or just found some bullshit to figure out if a kill is on *supposed to be blue* is needed or good. I'd say a mafia is going to read the filter or tell his buddies about it so that they read it (because people are lazy).
Townies sadly end up rolefishing quite a lot in games because they think that will somehow improve their reads on someone or they think that everything somehow makes sense once you figured that out.
So I'm not giving to much into you rolefishing although you are. Toad, how am I rolefishing? I've been pushing a Grav wagon for 20+ hours now, and BM said we shouldn't lynch Grav because he is blue. I went in and asked why he thought Grav was blue, because if BM doesn't give me any reasons why he thinks Grav is blue AKA not scum, then how can I persuade BM that Grav is scum? Well that kind of is the definition of bluefishing. Let's assume BM really found something. You're trying to make him tell you what he found, so you can not only figure out whether or not he's right but also what kind of blue he is because a "blueslip" or whatever else made BM think he's blue is usually very specific. Sure claiming someone else is borderline retarded as well if you really think so but as this seemed to be a joke I don't care enough to get into details on that one. I don't really see the problem here to be honest, which is the reason I didn't post about it until asked: Shady thinks Gravan is mafia BM thinks Shady slipped and accidently told people his buddy Gravan is mafia and not town. Seems to me like we should lynch Gravan and decide wether or not that typo was a slip or just some bullshit later on.
Got it. So if someone says he thinks someone else is blue, we should just never question him, because that's anti-town rolefishing?
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Whoa shit. I just clicked edit button instead of quote button. Here is the original post i made above:
Show nested quote +On September 14 2012 21:55 Bill Murray wrote:
He could easily be scum at this point, and me still think you slipped. I'm leaning on him, actually, which is why I don't mind if he gets lynched at all (better if Rewok is going to be modkilled than a Rewok wagon) I just feel he has a role as opposed to being townie (see: mementoss's reaction) Whoooooaaa. You said: Show nested quote +Some lurkers are town and blue (like grav is) whereas Rewok is scum lurker (likely power role like scum vig/assassin) Now you say Show nested quote +I'm leaning on him, actually, which is why I don't mind if he gets lynched at all and What the heck? So why was your read originally town and blue on Grav and "could easily be scum at this point" when Grav hasn't made a single post in the interim?
the ebwop was the last sentence
So why was your read originally town and blue on Grav but now is "could easily be scum at this point" when Grav hasn't made a single post in the interim?
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Anyhow, town: read how BM starts with a blue read on Grav, then uses that as an excuse to chainsaw me via claiming I'm rolefishing, then switches his view to one that mildly supporting of Grav without Grav making a single post in between now and then.
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On September 14 2012 22:06 Toadesstern wrote:If someone says he thinks someone else is blue people should ignore him because he's either playing borderline anti-town himself, or he's mafia, or he's trolling for WHATEVER reason. Curiosity is a bitch and gets in peoples way no matter of alignment though 
Oh, okay. I thought BM was using that blue read as a way to keep people from lynching Grav, which is why I wanted to question it.
Instead, I'll ask BM this then:
Why do we not lynch Grav? (Aside from the fact that you think he has a power role)
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On September 14 2012 22:46 Bill Murray wrote:
It is a reaction test. Gravan is possibly blue, and is so in 33% of the scenarios I can think of
However, you are 100% scum, Shady Sands
You said Gravan was town and blue, no ifs, ands, or buts about it. No possibly, nothing like that.
So the question is: why do we not lynch Gravan?
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What the fuck is happening here?
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ebwop
Wow. Did not see that coming. Reading SnB filter
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Alright, SnB flip clears Mav.
Look at this case SnB made on mav made during the time when people were still deciding between Grav and Mav for the critical lynch vote.
On September 14 2012 01:20 strongandbig wrote:
I'm voting for maverickx.
Out of the cases so far, the one on him (redone recently by mementoss) has by far the most meat to it.
I don't have a town read on gravan like I do on grush and billmurray, so I'd be willing to consolidate on him, but the case on him just feels too "wtf where is he" without enough "also this is why he's scum."
I think compared to those two, mementoss isn't a great lynch for today since he seems to have started giving a fuck. However, that could just be him being scum and realizing that he has to start giving a fuck or die. But I think mav is the best lynch out of those today.
##vote: maverickx
SnB picks Mav over the other lynch targets when he could have easily piled on some of the other wagons (notably Grav.) I don't think a scum would bus a partner in that sort of situation.
Second, after rereading his filter, I think I fucked up when I thought SnB was endorsing a Grav wagon. It's clear from his words above that he wasn't endorsing the Grav wagon--rather he was soft defending grav while leaving his option open. Therefore SnB's flip is mostly null towards Grav.
Two people SnB's flip do cast significant scumminess on, however, are me and Toad. The next post will look at us both.
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On September 15 2012 07:17 imallinson wrote:Show nested quote +On September 15 2012 07:16 Shady Sands wrote:
What the fuck is happening here? winning
Lol I made this post as I was browsing through the last page of the thread. Did not notice the Night post.
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In light of the S&B flip, I think Toad is scum, because Toad has continually tried to paint S&B as an assassin.
Based on this assassin read, Toad has used this as an excuse for himself to not pressure S&B or even mention him in the thread.
+ Show Spoiler [evidence] +On September 11 2012 01:21 Toadesstern wrote:
Let's be honest here:
I think if we lynch into one of either Forumite, S&B, BM or Z-Boson we're going to hit "not-townie" all the way.
That's the reason I didn't want to talk about S&B because I suspected him to be an Assassin (you're welcome \o/ ).
If BM is Mafia Foru's got to be an Assassin (again, you're welcome \o/ ) and isn't actually mafia himself.
Foru basicly claimed he's playing cautious on purpose so that fits the Assassin as well.
Z-Boson and BM have some weird connection this day.
I really don't like how Boson gets in here telling people BM is confirmed because of the blue thing, on top of that he instantly finds another breadcrumb BM apparently did and the knowledge BM had about austin is supposed to make him somehow town when there's no way mafia would have shot a vig n1, even if they knew about one.
So if you take them all apart I'd be all up for lynching Forumite today.
If we're considering them as a whole I'd rather lynch Z-Boson. I mentioned S&B as well but as I said, he's probably Assassin so noone should care about him right now unless we see another 3rd party flip and he's still kicking. On September 13 2012 19:57 Toadesstern wrote:
I said either BM or Foru are mafia later on. Something like d2, n2 or d3 I guess? So that one would be the more updated read on BM but not sure if that still holds.
It was based on the "there has to be a mafia vet" assumption and forumite flipping green (=neither red nor black) pretty much destroyed that, or at least it now has an interesting twist to it:
As far as I know we don't actually know whether we've got Assassins in this game or not. If we have some it's highly likely that BM and S&B are those Assassins because hosts don't usually give 3rd party roles to new guys because they're hard to play. If that's the case we obviously don't have a mafia within those 2.
If we don't have Assassins to begin with we probably still have a mafia within those 2.
Not sure I want to take that gamble today.
Then shortly before he leaves, he tries to narrow town's options to anyone but S&B.
30 more minutes until I've got to leave. Shady Sands or Gravan?
That's more than three times over the past 2 votecycles. During (and before) those 2 votecycles, Toad was pushing BKE, Z-Boson, and Forumite, all of whom flipped town or blue.
Furthermore, look at who has questioned Toad over the game:
BKE
Hapa
Z-Boson
Notice a pattern? They're all dead.
TLDR: Toad has soft-defended S&B for awhile, pushed three straight townies for lynches, and anyone who made substantive cases on him has been NK'd.
Now onto my post about S&B.
I made that in the heat of the moment in my effort to get Gravan lynched. In retrospect, it looks scummy and stupid. That being said, I misread what S&B wrote about Gravan--I thought he was agreeing that Gravan was scum, when it is apparent now that S&B was actually soft-defending him.
Since I thought at the time that Gravan was scum, anyone who came out before a lynch was inevitable on Gravan and made noises about lynching him earned town points in my book. Now that S&B has flipped scum, I retract that and I think Gravan is just a bad town who other scum tried to latch upon. Grav's behavior, in particular, over the past few hours has been very townie and returns my read on him to null.
I have a few other players who look scummy to me:
Rewok
ShiaoPi
Mementoss
DarthPunk
I'm going to be looking through their filters and will get something out before the daypost.
Final note: in case this isn't obvious already, S&B lynch should serve as strong town-tells for Sloosh and Hopeless1der.
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Just to make this clear:
## Vote Toadesstern
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On September 15 2012 08:22 Gravan wrote:Show nested quote +On September 15 2012 08:06 Shady Sands wrote:In light of the S&B flip, I think Toad is scum, because Toad has continually tried to paint S&B as an assassin. Based on this assassin read, Toad has used this as an excuse for himself to not pressure S&B or even mention him in the thread. + Show Spoiler [evidence] +On September 11 2012 01:21 Toadesstern wrote:
Let's be honest here:
I think if we lynch into one of either Forumite, S&B, BM or Z-Boson we're going to hit "not-townie" all the way.
That's the reason I didn't want to talk about S&B because I suspected him to be an Assassin (you're welcome \o/ ).
If BM is Mafia Foru's got to be an Assassin (again, you're welcome \o/ ) and isn't actually mafia himself.
Foru basicly claimed he's playing cautious on purpose so that fits the Assassin as well.
Z-Boson and BM have some weird connection this day.
I really don't like how Boson gets in here telling people BM is confirmed because of the blue thing, on top of that he instantly finds another breadcrumb BM apparently did and the knowledge BM had about austin is supposed to make him somehow town when there's no way mafia would have shot a vig n1, even if they knew about one.
So if you take them all apart I'd be all up for lynching Forumite today.
If we're considering them as a whole I'd rather lynch Z-Boson. I mentioned S&B as well but as I said, he's probably Assassin so noone should care about him right now unless we see another 3rd party flip and he's still kicking. On September 13 2012 19:57 Toadesstern wrote:
I said either BM or Foru are mafia later on. Something like d2, n2 or d3 I guess? So that one would be the more updated read on BM but not sure if that still holds.
It was based on the "there has to be a mafia vet" assumption and forumite flipping green (=neither red nor black) pretty much destroyed that, or at least it now has an interesting twist to it:
As far as I know we don't actually know whether we've got Assassins in this game or not. If we have some it's highly likely that BM and S&B are those Assassins because hosts don't usually give 3rd party roles to new guys because they're hard to play. If that's the case we obviously don't have a mafia within those 2.
If we don't have Assassins to begin with we probably still have a mafia within those 2.
Not sure I want to take that gamble today. Then shortly before he leaves, he tries to narrow town's options to anyone but S&B. 30 more minutes until I've got to leave. Shady Sands or Gravan? That's more than three times over the past 2 votecycles. During (and before) those 2 votecycles, Toad was pushing BKE, Z-Boson, and Forumite, all of whom flipped town or blue. Furthermore, look at who has questioned Toad over the game: BKE Hapa Z-Boson Notice a pattern? They're all dead. TLDR: Toad has soft-defended S&B for awhile, pushed three straight townies for lynches, and anyone who made substantive cases on him has been NK'd.
Now onto my post about S&B. I made that in the heat of the moment in my effort to get Gravan lynched. In retrospect, it looks scummy and stupid. That being said, I misread what S&B wrote about Gravan--I thought he was agreeing that Gravan was scum, when it is apparent now that S&B was actually soft-defending him. Since I thought at the time that Gravan was scum, anyone who came out before a lynch was inevitable on Gravan and made noises about lynching him earned town points in my book. Now that S&B has flipped scum, I retract that and I think Gravan is just a bad town who other scum tried to latch upon. Grav's behavior, in particular, over the past few hours has been very townie and returns my read on him to null. I have a few other players who look scummy to me: Rewok ShiaoPi Mementoss DarthPunk I'm going to be looking through their filters and will get something out before the daypost. Final note: in case this isn't obvious already, S&B lynch should serve as strong town-tells for Sloosh and Hopeless1der. This really feels like scummy backtracking to me. Nothing that you used against me in your 'case' has changed. You haven't interacted with my defending myself at all - I think that you were hoping that by ignorning it i would get lynched anyway. I really think you are trying to sweep your previous actions and suspicions under the rug, and changing them to whatever is convienent at the time. Other people have voiced some opinions on toad, so you are latchig right on.
Grav, read page 109 and 110. I said the S&B flip makes Toad and me look bad miles before anyone else started talking about Toad.
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On September 15 2012 08:29 Kreb wrote:
For now I have to agree on Toad with his continous attempts to paint S&B as an assassin does not look very well for him. If so, that makes his Z-Boson night kill rather ballsy, I guess he called the bluff.
Scum has been pushing ballsy play all game long (Mattchew).
Anyhow: [b[If we are to believe Toad, then a townie vig somehow sniped GK.[/b]
Hence my vote is going to stick on Toad unless a townie vig comes forward and claims for the GK nightkill. (Needless to say don't claim until after the Daypost.)
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On September 15 2012 22:42 Toadesstern wrote:Show nested quote +On September 15 2012 22:29 Shady Sands wrote:On September 15 2012 08:29 Kreb wrote:
For now I have to agree on Toad with his continous attempts to paint S&B as an assassin does not look very well for him. If so, that makes his Z-Boson night kill rather ballsy, I guess he called the bluff. Scum has been pushing ballsy play all game long (Mattchew). Anyhow: If we are to believe Toad, then a townie vig somehow sniped GK.Hence my vote is going to stick on Toad unless a townie vig comes forward and claims for the GK nightkill. (Needless to say don't claim until after the Daypost.) Translation:He's willing to put everything on a coinflip. If Austin was the vig who shot GK and a mafia-vig (or another town vig) shot Ottox he is going to vote me because there's no (possible) claim. If Austin wasn't the vig who shot GK he's willing to think about not voting me. LoL
This is what Austin said about the Ottox NK:
On September 08 2012 23:41 austinmcc wrote:Show nested quote +On September 08 2012 23:15 Toadesstern wrote:
Supposedly mafia only used 1KP yesterday. BC got killed by suicidebomber. I hiiiiighly doubt ottox was a mafiahit and think he was hit by town, which leaves us with DrH. But According to BKE only one guy visited him and he did not get doublestacked. Neither do we have a claim from someone else who got protected or shot n1. So one shot is missing
This. GK as suicide bomber could still deliver a kill. And if you're scum and you lose mattchew D1, you're suiciding GK N1, you're 100% gonna use him as a shooter because he can't get caught delivering a kill, he's gonna be dead. We're basically narrowed down to BM24 being double stacked and BKE lying OR BM24 single shot, BKE watcher, and a medic save. Unless mafia shot Ottoxlol, which seems...unlikely.
Show nested quote +On September 08 2012 23:29 Shady Sands wrote:Other than BKE, my other main read is GRush. It starts here: On September 06 2012 07:50 grush57 wrote:
K.
Medics on Toad and BC and BM.
Vigi kill in the pool of scummy people/ scummylurkers.
Ex: Ottox, Maverick, Do you has.
This comes before GK suicide bombs into BC/BM. To me it almost sounds like he was trying to draw a blue into the bombing. I'm pretty sure Grush wasn't the only one doing that. Toad did it at one point (or multiple points), everyone and their mother discussed vigi shots on half the town. Morning laziness means I'm not finding those quotes for you, but I'm almost certain there were a decent number of similar posts, but less concise.
Bolded for emphasis. I'm almost willing to consider that a soft-claim for the Ottox NK. It's something other people in the thread also picked up on.
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What's more, Austin didn't even mention GK directly, once, until after GK was dead.
So yeah. Unless a vig claims they hit GK night 1, you've gotta be scum.
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On September 16 2012 02:40 Hopeless1der wrote:Show nested quote +On September 16 2012 01:47 Shady Sands wrote:
What's more, Austin didn't even mention GK directly, once, until after GK was dead.
So yeah. Unless a vig claims they hit GK night 1, you've gotta be scum. Not entirely true, which it seems MMT has figured out. Seriously, learn to read the setup you guys. Way too much false information floating around this game.
Actually just finished reading MMT's filter. Yeah, his explanation makes more sense.
Still doesn't detract from the fact that Toad's claim looks fake. Ergo, kill Toad.
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Actually, N1, if GK suicided into Ottox, then couldn't it also be the case that:
BC was killed by GK submitting mafia KP
BM24 was killed by mafia KP
GK suicided into Ottox
Austinmc shot someone with medic protection or with bulletproof, or he himself was roleblocked?
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Anyhow, in sum: Toad's claim is basically null because there are so many ways in which it could be true, and many other situations in which it could be false.
What's important is the case on him revolving around his soft defense of SnB, as well as how he went pretty much awol/apathetic over the final few hours of the heated D4 lynch.
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ebwop meant to say over the final day of the heated D4 lynch. Toad was ambivalent to who got lynched that day, which makes sense if you think of him as scum and all of the prospective candidates at the time (me, Grav, MMT) as town.
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EPT
