TL Mafia LVII - Page 4

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Toadesstern

Germany16350 Posts

September 05 2012 17:55 GMT

#681

not to mention that after those two posts:

On September 06 2012 01:47 Mattchew wrote:
god you are all so scummy... except BC of course.

On September 06 2012 01:47 Mattchew wrote:
and BM.. I repeat, BM is def town!

just screw everything I said. There's no way this dude is going to flip green lol

Toadesstern

Germany16350 Posts

September 05 2012 18:19 GMT

#683

lol thought the same

Toadesstern

Germany16350 Posts

September 05 2012 19:00 GMT

#692

On September 06 2012 03:57 Ottoxlol wrote:

Show nested quote +

At least I am not that retarded to attack someone on the ground of their first post that was clearly a joke.
I already explained my motivation two post ago. If you need some help understanding it you can ask for it nicely

Thing is: I never dodged your question and answered it 5 times.
Thing is: Everyone in the thread agrees that I answered the question just fine
Thing is: You say "Toad said X" (I did not answer the question) while 24 people in the thread are telling you "dude, just look at it, toad said Y" (he did)
Thing is: You say "Toad is mafia because he said X. That is all I've got on him and totally makes him 100% mafia"

You've got to realize that that looks weird, right?

Toadesstern

Germany16350 Posts

September 05 2012 19:05 GMT

#693

Ah screw that guy... I'm just not going to answer him anymore. It's pointless...

Toadesstern

Germany16350 Posts

September 05 2012 21:31 GMT

#708

Ottox still hasn't understood the difference between intention and what ended up happening. That's the whole deal here.

He is saying it makes no sense for mafia to claim like that because it failed, therefore it was bad.
As town it would / could have worked out according to him.

That's his whole reasoning and he's not unterstanding that everyone is talking about the intention and not what ended up happening.

Toadesstern

Germany16350 Posts

September 05 2012 21:34 GMT

#709

On September 06 2012 06:28 Ottoxlol wrote:

Show nested quote +

On September 06 2012 06:22 goodkarma wrote:
@Ottox:

First:

On September 06 2012 04:53 Ottoxlol wrote:

On September 06 2012 04:41 BroodKingEXE wrote:

On September 06 2012 03:57 Ottoxlol wrote:

On September 06 2012 03:49 Z-BosoN wrote:
@goodkarma
Just because he is up on my suspicion bar does not mean that he is scum. He could very well be a bad townie.
If he is, the only motivation he has for defending matt and attacking toad is that he actually thinks that toad is more suspicious than matt, and if so, he's doing a shitty job at explaining himself.
Also, him being obnoxious doesn't contribute to his defense.

You dont joke about scum reads. You're scum, because you are trying to derail a lynch and not trying to bring up another canidate. Real townie would create a case and present a new option, but scum dont want to give away to much and wont do that. They'll try to plug an easy lurker after a derail.

You are wrong. A joke is fine when the game is just started and there is nothing.

You say scum dont want to give away much. Thats my main concern too, no one has to add anything to why they vote Matt, thats why i am trying to get ppl to talk about it.

The problem with joking is that when you say something and then go back and say "just kidding," people don't know if you're a scum trying to cover up a blunder, or a townie who really is joking. That's why "joke" posts really aren't a good idea, as they do nothing to scumhunt. And if you're town, it's a fast track to getting suspicion placed on you all game long...

Second:

On September 06 2012 03:54 Ottoxlol wrote:
Toad, I asked about the vote on Matt and he told me a bunch of things but dodged the question for 8-9 times.

Those who started focusing on Gravan but ignored me.

Those who voted Matt with a one liner.

I asked for your top scumread, and this doesn't cut it. Blanket accusing everyone who focused on Gravan but not you, as well as those who made one-line cases for Mattchew is not constructive. Like why is it that those who focused on Gravan alone are suspicious? You've never discussed this at all, and it requires further explanation.

And if you're going to discuss Toad as a top scumread, then please take more than one line to elaborate on it.

I was not the only one joking in the first half an hour, grush, Hapa, Toad made jokes too.

So about Toad, he was active a lot but failed to make a case on why is he voting Matt. You can see our conversation in our filters,

This is why I ask the same question again and again to get scum answer too. You guys are blinded by scum talking bs in the thread.

Wtf. How is that:

On September 05 2012 00:45 Toadesstern wrote:

Show nested quote +

yeah Matt really is someone who's really in your face both as a townie and a mafia.
He's incredible aggressive and / or borderline insulting if people don't think the same way he does.

As mafia he's telling people to shut up and that he doesn't need to explain his reads a bit because people are to retarded to understand it anyways when he knows he's right about something, e.g. when he's bussing a buddy, defending a townie to get towncred or geniunely meant something another way and people are misinterpreting what he said due to a type or something like that.
As Town he does the same when he heavily think's he's right or when someone misunderstands him.

His calm and almost not existing involvement here defenitly is not what matt does when somethings "wrong" according to him.
That either means he acknowledges that he screwed up as a town or that he acknowledges that he screwed up as a mafia and doesn't think it's going to help anymore.
As already mentioned I don't see a reason at all for a town to fakeclaim like this and combine that with him "giving up" and you're good to go.

On September 04 2012 23:21 Toadesstern wrote:

Show nested quote +

a blue doctor, jailkeep, Tracker, Watcher or Vigi however has no reason to be afraid. Maybe a Mad Hatter would be hard to explain but I'd doubt someone would want to fakeclaim as miller like that as a Mad Hatter.

Picture the situation you're in as a blue: We have trackers and Watchers. What happens is that at some time someone could say "Hey guys, Matt visited X at night Y".
If he's a doctor, tracker or a watcher that's no problem at all because the target in question didn't die. We want to know who visited people who ended up being dead. If he's a doc there's actually a chance he ended up saving someone and that someone could even confirm that. If he is a tracker or a Watcher he is able to claim the results, something Mafia is not able to do.
So a Doc, Tracker or a Watcher are all perfectly fine and there's no reason to fakeclaim like this.

A Jailer can somewhat confirm himself as well as the target he visited ended up being roleblocked every single night. It's only "somewhat" because a mafia RB is possible as well but after all if he's a Jailer he's again only going to visit people who ended up surviving the night.

A vig is somewhat tricky as it's an extremly easy fakeclaim for mafia to do but as long as you claim prior to the deadline everyone's going to be fine with that.

A Mad Hatter is, like a vigi somewhat tricky but as everything else you visited people. That in itself is not a reason to be suspicious of someone and the Mad Hatter is most likely going to visit people who ended up surviving as well unless either the Hatter decides to go after townish looking people for whatever reason or mafia decides to go after bad looking townies for whatever reason.

tl;dr: There's not a single scenario in which a fakeclaim as a blue makes sense. At least I can't think of one because you won't end up being tracked to a kill in pretty much all the cases. On top of that noone is going to be stupid enough to out someone who visited a guy who's still alive because that's basicly outing medics / tracker / watcher in most of the cases.

However there are a bunch of good reasons to fakeclaim this as mafia if you forgot that millers / NN are usually not self-aware in 90% of the games and just did it because he recently played a game with self-aware millers. I think Bang-Bang mafia was one of those for example.

So there's a shitton of explanations from a mafia point of view.
The only possible explanation from a town point of view would probably be "reversed psychology" although you're making yourself a target doing so, which isn't what a blue wants to do either unless he's a Hatter d2 or later.

On September 05 2012 02:09 Toadesstern wrote:

Show nested quote +

On September 05 2012 02:01 Ottoxlol wrote:

On September 05 2012 01:50 Toadesstern wrote:
People who know how to play post things, including fakeclaims as mafia all the time without checking with their buddies and they slip from time to time.
If this was some random noob, fine but it's not, it's Mattchew. He most of the time knows what he's doing and certaintly doesn't need to check back with his buddies all the time.

Additionally in the most recent games I played as mafia I figured that a lot of mafia teams really only rely on the QT and really seldomly use other means of communication like IRC or skype which slows down communication A LOT. So in the most recent games I played as mafia pretty much everyone just did their own thing and you would only end up discussing things like who to kill at night or wether or not it's fine if you bus each other.

Again, if this was some random dude with 100 posts in his 3rd or 5th game of mafia fine, I'd agree he'd ask his buddies before doing something like this but Mattchew is not a random noob.

I could maaaaaaybe see him fakeclaim as tracker on purpose IF he knew millers are not self-aware to lure out additional fakeclaims but I don't really see that giving his answers. And if that really was the case it'd be the most stupid kind of play I've ever seen.
That's literally the most retarded thing you could come up with but it's at least something I could come up with while the scenarios for a mafia who just slipped make a whole lot of sense

My problem with this reasoning is why blue/assa bad play is more probable then scum bad play? Even if you think Matt is not likely to discuss it with his team, he can so why is it more likely?

If he's scum he misread the rules then fakeclaimed without discussing it with his mates or they fucked up too.
If he's a tracker/assa, he misread the rules then fakeclaimed. in hope of some probable targets (thinking the other assassin would likely claim or maybe even scum)

Why is the first scenario is more likely by 19 people? :D I just don't see it. Tell me what I miss

Because there's no reason to fakeclaim as tracker.
As a mafia you blend in as a townie.

not explaining why I'm voting Matt?
Stop lying dude

Toadesstern

Germany16350 Posts

September 05 2012 21:37 GMT

#712

On September 06 2012 06:35 Ottoxlol wrote:
Toad is lying again, I explained it multiple times what I think yet he writes
"He is saying it makes no sense for mafia to claim like that because it failed, therefore it was bad."

No. I am saying it makes no sense for mafia to claim because it is bad. BC tried to tell me why, but when I answered he disappeared. Strange. Why do you keep talking about me when you are clearly not capable of understanding what I am writing?

That's just another of your lies. Multiple people HAVE ALREADY EXPLAINED, with links to the game or at least telling you the name of the game that fakeclaiming miller/NN is a good strategy for mafia and it happened in the past, ending up wasting cycles for town because noone lynched the guy in question BECAUSE of the lynch.

Just READ the game.

Toadesstern

Germany16350 Posts

September 05 2012 21:40 GMT

#713

On September 06 2012 06:36 Ottoxlol wrote:
You did not answered why is it more probable to do this as scum then as assa or blue. You are still dodging it. You write a lot of spam but contribute negative, try to stop the discussion.

I'm not going to just let you get in here and completly lie about what happened and tell people trying to make it look like something happened that never happened when in fact you're still not willing to read the game lol.

You're telling me that I should ignore you but you're going on about how I'm supposed to be a liar. That's the most hypocritical thing I've ever read.

Toadesstern

Germany16350 Posts

September 05 2012 21:49 GMT

#726

On September 06 2012 06:48 Bill Murray wrote:

Show nested quote +

telling scum to kill me and BC... priceless.

BM could be Dr.H as well. Noone knows!

Toadesstern

Germany16350 Posts

September 05 2012 21:58 GMT

#732

On September 06 2012 06:54 Bill Murray wrote:

Show nested quote +

On September 06 2012 03:46 strongandbig wrote:
So I was reading some stuff over, and I really don't like this post, specifically the bolded part:

On September 04 2012 09:05 Forumite wrote:
Finished with page 12.

On September 04 2012 08:22 DoYouHas wrote:
slOosh, my vote is neither stupid nor a throwaway. I have a friend who I consider a better player than me who has told me that getting BM out of the game quickly is always a good thing. It is meta as hell but it isn't stupid.

Toad's aggression towards you is completely null. You seem to be playing into your town meta so far, but I really won't know for sure until your first/second case.

I dislike you voting a veteran based on meta. You don´t kill veterans, you wait for them to either 1) crush the scumteam or 2) get shot in the night. If they live too long without doing any good, THEN you maybe consider killing them based on meta.

On September 04 2012 07:49 Miltonkram wrote:
First things first, here is a list of games I've played in and links to my filters from those games. I start all my games with a list like this because it helps me improve. If I'm scum, I have to avoid playing closely to my scum meta. If I'm town, I put pressure on myself to make good reads. The list is spoilered so as not to take up space.
+ Show Spoiler +

NMM XIV: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=337671&user=240210
I was a Mafia Goon in this game.

NMM XV: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=340298&user=240210
I was a Vanilla Townie in this game.

NMM XVII: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=344270&user=240210
I was a Mafia Goon in this game.

NMM XVIII: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=345447&user=240210
I replaced into this game. I was a Vanilla Townie.

NMM XIX: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=347856&user=240210
I replaced into this game. I was a Vanilla Townie.

I Can't Believe It's Not Themed MiniMafia: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=351147&user=240210
I was a Vanilla Townie in this game.

I was also in Normal Mini III as a VT, but I replaced in and wasn't able to be very active.

I've got to go to work... on Labor Day T.T

I'll be back in several hours. Leave me something to come back to.

Too long, didn´t read.
I´m not usually basing my reads upon meta that the player himself provided.

On September 04 2012 07:55 BlackMamba24 wrote:
My general stance is that every blue should ultimately do what they want. The environment of this game should not be about confirming blues and then doing what they say. Just because someone is innocent does not make them right in their convictions or accusations so it isn't of too much help really except for process of elimination.

If a town plan arises I'm not gonna be a part of it but I advice blue players to use their own judgment. Never lynch someone just because they wouldn't claim to the town leader or whatever, that's asinine, asiten, asieleven, asitwelve, etc.

Don't bother asking me for my reads because I will never post a list of reads and I hate it when other people post "reads". Thanks.

What do you mean with the bolded part? It doesn´t make sense to me.

On September 04 2012 08:01 slOosh wrote:

On September 04 2012 07:58 Toadesstern wrote:

On September 04 2012 07:56 slOosh wrote:
Hapa, what is your idea of a town circle and how does it help us find / lynch / kill scum?

Toad - How is that useless stuff that has nothing to do with the game? The setup changed and maybe people haven't read the updates. I've asked you once and I'll do it again, what else do you want to talk about?

I don't know what you want to talk about. I'm talking about your useless post being useless.

Well BlackMamba's recent post just shows that people can miss information. My post has already proven itself useful, and your opening post which tries to discredit mine has not. Do you think I'm scum by my first post?

What is your problem with Toades? Do you think he´s deliberately disruptive?

We should be killing people we think are scum, no matter the reason. It might be harder to catch a good player with meta arguments, but "veteran" doesn't neccessarily mean "good player" and there are people who have metas that are worth analyzing. I especially don't like this post because it comes from someone who, while not a "vet" in the same sense that BC/BM/BM are, is still definitely in the top third or quarter of players in this game in terms of experience. Seems a little self-serving.

where this regards me (you put bc/bm/bm... what did you mean there?) I noticed this ... jeez my play as town is so bad. anyways, i have seen this as suspicious too. it is just another reason i've wanted to flip Doyouhas.

I'm actually just waiting for Foru to get in here and see him rage about that part.
I'd say he's top#2 or top#3 skillwise lol.

Toadesstern

Germany16350 Posts

September 05 2012 22:25 GMT

#763

On September 06 2012 07:21 Z-BosoN wrote:
@austin

Show nested quote +

No he didn't... he still thinks Toad is scum and still insists that matt is not.

he's saying something along the lines of:
1) Ottox thought he can defend Matt
2) Ottox realized that's not going to work
3) A buddy of his told him "dude you can't just back down like nothing happened. You've got to roll with it now"
4) That's the reason he's trolling like this.

Toadesstern

Germany16350 Posts

September 05 2012 22:40 GMT

#785

Bam. Watcher on people like BC and me please.

Mafia will want to hit that.

Toadesstern

Germany16350 Posts

September 05 2012 22:42 GMT

#788

On September 06 2012 07:41 Bill Murray wrote:

Show nested quote +

i wanna hit that

if you're a medic you have my permission to hit me all night long

Toadesstern

Germany16350 Posts

September 05 2012 22:53 GMT

#796

On September 06 2012 07:47 Z-BosoN wrote:

Show nested quote +

Why on earth do you think mafia would want to hit you?

1) I'm a vet and like BM just said it himself:

On September 06 2012 07:03 Bill Murray wrote:
[...]

Scum could easily just be playing the lurker game this game, but if that's the case, let 'em sit back while players like BC and Toad get confirmed.

I don't agree with him calling me #2 guy in here (he doesn't but that's basicly what he's saying) but I'm quite decent imo. At the same time the other vets besides BC we've got are not that good looking at all.

2) Do you think anyone besides Ottox would possibly come up with some weird reasoning for me being mafia? I doubt it. Mafia has to shoot people like BC and me.

Toadesstern

Germany16350 Posts

September 05 2012 23:29 GMT

#818

Btw I'd agree Ottox really has to die. Even if he's town he's probably the most anti-town player in here. He'll continue derailing the thread and mafia is he's either a mafia (in which case lynching seeing him dead is a good thing, duh) or he's someone who will be pushed for a mislynch.

Having him pushed for a mislynch however is way worse than having him die because it wastes a complete cycle if he really flips green. So yeah, if you're a town-vig feel free to shoot him.

I'm feeling somewhat uneasy about most of the vets. All of them have their minor issues except for BC right now.

BM looks a little to opportunistic and I can't stop thinking that he's buddying me.
Foru's posting a little to cautios for my taste
Dr.H's posting feels just off. Can't really put my finger on it though. Like that post when he asked BC wether or not he understood why he didn't trust BC. That probably was the most odd post of the vets I've seen this game.

However, those are all very minor things not worth a damn on their own and frankly I doubt that more than one of them is going to flip mafia. I guess you could call this a "don't treat them as town warning" although I don't want them to be shot. Just pay attention in case I'm dead by tomorrow.

If either BC or I end up dead tonight something's wrong with our medics or we don't have medics lol.
Watchers are, as already mentioned, also incredible good for us as we're unlikely to be visited by something like town trackers / vigs / mad hatters. So if someone visits us and we end up being roleblocked or shot that's Jackpot for the watcher.

Toadesstern

Germany16350 Posts

September 05 2012 23:34 GMT

#825

EBWOP shouldn't watch TV while posting 8(
EBWOP within spoiler
+ Show Spoiler +

On September 06 2012 08:29 Toadesstern wrote:
Btw I'd agree Ottox really has to die. Even if he's town he's probably the most anti-town player in here. He'll continue derailing the thread and he's either a mafia (in which case lynching / seeing him dead is a good thing, duh) or he's someone who will be pushed for a mislynch.

Having him pushed for a mislynch however is way worse than having him die due to a vig because it wastes a complete cycle if he really flips green. So yeah, if you're a town-vig feel free to shoot him.

I'm feeling somewhat uneasy about most of the vets. All of them have their minor issues except for BC right now.

BM looks a little to opportunistic and I can't stop thinking that he's buddying me.
Foru's posting a little to cautios for my taste
Dr.H's posting feels just off. Can't really put my finger on it though. Like that post when he asked BC wether or not he understood why he didn't trust BC. That probably was the most odd post of the vets I've seen this game.

However, those are all very minor things not worth a damn on their own and frankly I doubt that more than one of them is going to flip mafia. I guess you could call this a "don't treat them as town warning" although I don't want them to be shot. Just pay attention in case I'm dead by tomorrow.

If either BC or I end up dead tonight something's wrong with our medics or we don't have medics lol.
Watchers are, as already mentioned, also incredible good for us as we're unlikely to be visited by something like town trackers / vigs / mad hatters. So if someone visits us and we end up being roleblocked or shot that's Jackpot for the watcher.

Toadesstern

Germany16350 Posts

September 05 2012 23:40 GMT

#834

On September 06 2012 08:37 Bill Murray wrote:
"and mafia is " why did you feel the need to add that, toad? wtf?
you also admit ottoxlol is town
you've gone from town to leaning scum in my mind reaaaalllly fast
if you need punctuation there, perhaps you should try EBWOP again.

copy & paste. I hade it the other way around when I wanted to post it and changed it to the that clusterfuck with gosu c&p

The original would have been something along the lines of "he either is town and mafia is going to push him for a mislynch and noone's ever going to analyze that as everyone's going to agree that he has to die, or he's a mafia and and has to die".

That's why the "and mafia is" was in front there. Figured I needed to shorten it a little and made it the other way around because clearly people should be still smart enough to read that much out of it without me pointing their noses at it.

Toadesstern

Germany16350 Posts

September 05 2012 23:42 GMT

#836

On September 06 2012 08:41 Bill Murray wrote:
Regardless, Toad just majorly backtracked and EBWOPed because he called ottoxlol town and encouraged a vig... he's lying, and nervous about it, imo. I feel like he knows that ottoxlol would need a vig... toad has slipped up quite a bit, but i'm not 100% on him.

no I did not backtrack. I said he's either mafia or he's town and in both cases he needs to die given the situation.

Toadesstern

Germany16350 Posts

September 06 2012 00:32 GMT

#856

On September 06 2012 09:27 DoYouHas wrote:

Show nested quote +

On September 06 2012 09:19 BloodyC0bbler wrote:

On September 06 2012 09:16 DoYouHas wrote:

On September 06 2012 09:06 BlackMamba24 wrote:

On September 06 2012 09:04 DoYouHas wrote:
Now that we are sure about Matt, I think I have found scum in Hopeless1der.

Hopeless and Broodking are the two people who posted cases on people other than Mattchew (Forumite and Toad, respectively) in the time period between when BC's attack and Palmar's confirmation. This I think is a very important period of time because the uncertainty of the town on how to deal with BC and Matt makes it the best time for scum to try and divert the wagon of their scumbuddy. Both Hopeless and Brood's cases could have been made with that intent, but I see Hopeless as scum easier than I see Brood. Brood had expressed his distaste for Toad earlier in the game and just doesn't fit the reluctant busser as well as Hopeless.

I have already taken issue with some of his case on Forumite Here. But when you combine his case with the post he made a page earlier. You have to admit that it looks awfully like he is attacking BC (the main proponent of a Matt lynch) and then trying to divert to another target. Not convinced this is what he was doing? Here is the first line of his case on Forumite:

On September 04 2012 13:18 Hopeless1der wrote:
Supposing we table the nosy-neighbor discussion(which appears to still be going strong), I would like to point out my take on Forumite:

Moving on to his "voteswitch"

On September 04 2012 23:45 Hopeless1der wrote:
1.I never actually did vote in the first place, but anyways:

##Unvote: Forumite
##Vote: Mattchew
2.Reasoning: See the entire fucking thread.

1. - He never did vote Forumite. this reads to me exactly like he was trying to use his case to divert the Matt bandwagon, and after Palmar confirmed the fakeclaim, is trying to save face. (Funny how nobody seems to call him out for this voteswitch despite searching for defenders of Matt.)

2. - He doesn't seem to happy to be switching to a guaranteed fakeclaim that is very likely scum right here, odd.

After Hopeless' vote has settled onto Mattchew I note 2 more things that read scummy to me.

First, in these two posts (1)(2) Hopeless jumps at the chance to be the information provider, a very easy way to 'contribute' and with someone as inactive as Hopeless a definite scumtell.

Second,

On September 05 2012 07:19 Hopeless1der wrote:

-snipped massive nested quotes-

The whole point of his case is that you pushing DP wasn't a real scum read, it was errant Day 1 bullshit. Which most of the thread was at that point. I still think he's scummy because that's a shitty case at the time it arose, but it's reasonably consistent, despite the misinformation.

This waffley statement is definitely something I would expect from scum.

To sum up, I think Hopeless1der fits a reluctant busser that is trying to slide by extremely well and I want to lynch him ASAP.

we should lynch doyouhas too, this is a post that was definitely posted in the scum qt a few times my intuition is flaring up like crazy over this

Your intuition is wrong. You should look into my past games before you make a gut read like this.

It took you a day to make that giant analysis post? You had nothing to say in that entire time? Given how much you aren't posting and your previous posts in this game you posted something that looks heavily tailored.

I've been thinking about Hopeless for a while now, but I was waiting for Matt's flip to put together the case (it wouldn't have held much water if he had flipped town). And yes, I am a slowish reader and it takes me hours to put together cases. I tailor them quite a bit.

I understand you don't like me lurking. But at least address my case.

Toadesstern

Germany16350 Posts

September 06 2012 00:42 GMT

#861

btw random observation that might be worth sharing as I'm not sure what to make of it yet but it's interessting:

On September 05 2012 13:07 BroodKingEXE wrote:

Show nested quote +

No, his response was belivable based on posts he made after his sloosh interaction. Ottox has replaced him due to the fact that he is pushing a "Matt is an assasin/townie scheme" instead of pushing his scum read toad.

On September 05 2012 23:39 marvellosity wrote:
Updated

Vote Count:

Mattchew (21): The great unwashed
Toadesstern (2): BroodkingEXE, Ottoxlol

Yet to vote: Lvdr, Mattchew, Shady Sands

Important part of the quote in red. Nothing else changed. That's it for today for me

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