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On September 09 2012 13:27 Hapahauli wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2012 13:22 Shady Sands wrote:On September 09 2012 13:17 Hapahauli wrote:On September 09 2012 13:15 Shady Sands wrote:On September 09 2012 12:59 Hapahauli wrote:On September 09 2012 12:53 Shady Sands wrote:On September 09 2012 12:49 Hapahauli wrote:
And as far as I'm concerned Shady, you've posted jack-shit in terms of your reads.
Put-up or shut-up. Right, because nearly starting a counter-wagon to the BKE mislynch on grush57 does not qualify as a read. And in case you're wondering, right you and him are my top scumreads. You made a case on GRush - if you think that's an actual read, you either haven't seen GRush play or you're smoking something that I want real bad right now. Cases and reads are equivalent. If you think they're different, then, you, sir, are the drug addict. So you made a read on Grush. You started a counter-wagon against someone who is traditionally the easiest mislynch in the game - someone who is going to behave just like that regardless of alignment. Yay for reads that matter! Still waiting for an answer to this btw: On September 09 2012 12:52 Hapahauli wrote:On September 09 2012 12:14 Shady Sands wrote:On September 09 2012 12:02 DarthPunk wrote:On September 09 2012 11:50 Shady Sands wrote:On September 09 2012 11:47 Hapahauli wrote:On September 09 2012 11:42 Shady Sands wrote:On September 09 2012 11:17 Hapahauli wrote:I retract my vigi-shot call on Rewok. He mentions the "lynch for blood" stuff earlier in his filter, and I'm willing to chalk it up to bad town. His giant wall-o-text posts giving everyone null-reads actually reads town to me - seems like a genuine attempt to contribute, despite being useless. However, I do think we should look into vigi-shotting ShiaoPi. Shiao is hardcore lurking in comparison to his other games as VT. Absolutely no content in Shaio's filter, and there are a couple of posts that fingerpoint like mad:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=361826¤tpage=47#929
Shaio originally wasn't posting because of "internet concerns." I believed Shiao at the time, but now it's becoming a habit. Why are you calling for a vig shot on Shiao for lurking and no call for a vig shot on me for lurking? I'm fingerpointing too. Do you think you're a better vig shot than Shaio? Do tell. I asked you first, Hapa. Please answer Yeah Hapa. Stop answering questions with questions. You have been extremely selective with your scum reads this game. I would also like to know why shaio over shady. Also how could you see Ottox as not scummy and BKE with a plausible watcher claim guaranteed scum. I am going to take a close look at your filter and XXI. Something is off about you. I agree. [b]Hapa's usually a pretty good scumhunter. His posts on Ottox in particular are just strange; almost inviting a vigi hit on Ottox but backing away enough to give himself plausible deniability. Town Hapa ( in Newbie Mini XXIII) didn't play like this. Oh haha I missed this - weren't you ranting for pages about me cheating in that game and getting lucky? Sounds like someone twisting meta to their own advantage. What does grush's prior meta have to do with the fact that he's behaving anti-town? If a player traditionally trolls all the time like YH or Chez, do we just give them a free pass? 1) you're championing a worthless read - he [b]always is anti-town regardless of alignment. 2) you can call it a "free pass" or whatever, but as it stands, there's no indication if he's town or scum. I like my chances building a case on a player that's actually readable at this point in the game - better than a 75/25 town/scum chance on Grush (or however the town/scum numbers are in this game).
If he's always anti-town, shouldn't he be a more valid target for a vigi hit than a lurker?
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On September 09 2012 13:30 Hapahauli wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2012 13:29 Shady Sands wrote:On September 09 2012 13:27 Hapahauli wrote:On September 09 2012 13:22 Shady Sands wrote:On September 09 2012 13:17 Hapahauli wrote:On September 09 2012 13:15 Shady Sands wrote:On September 09 2012 12:59 Hapahauli wrote:On September 09 2012 12:53 Shady Sands wrote:On September 09 2012 12:49 Hapahauli wrote:
And as far as I'm concerned Shady, you've posted jack-shit in terms of your reads.
Put-up or shut-up. Right, because nearly starting a counter-wagon to the BKE mislynch on grush57 does not qualify as a read. And in case you're wondering, right you and him are my top scumreads. You made a case on GRush - if you think that's an actual read, you either haven't seen GRush play or you're smoking something that I want real bad right now. Cases and reads are equivalent. If you think they're different, then, you, sir, are the drug addict. So you made a read on Grush. You started a counter-wagon against someone who is traditionally the easiest mislynch in the game - someone who is going to behave just like that regardless of alignment. Yay for reads that matter! Still waiting for an answer to this btw: On September 09 2012 12:52 Hapahauli wrote:On September 09 2012 12:14 Shady Sands wrote:On September 09 2012 12:02 DarthPunk wrote:On September 09 2012 11:50 Shady Sands wrote:On September 09 2012 11:47 Hapahauli wrote:
[quote]
Do you think you're a better vig shot than Shaio? Do tell. I asked you first, Hapa. Please answer Yeah Hapa. Stop answering questions with questions. You have been extremely selective with your scum reads this game. I would also like to know why shaio over shady. Also how could you see Ottox as not scummy and BKE with a plausible watcher claim guaranteed scum. I am going to take a close look at your filter and XXI. Something is off about you. I agree. [b]Hapa's usually a pretty good scumhunter. His posts on Ottox in particular are just strange; almost inviting a vigi hit on Ottox but backing away enough to give himself plausible deniability. Town Hapa ( in Newbie Mini XXIII) didn't play like this. Oh haha I missed this - weren't you ranting for pages about me cheating in that game and getting lucky? Sounds like someone twisting meta to their own advantage. What does grush's prior meta have to do with the fact that he's behaving anti-town? If a player traditionally trolls all the time like YH or Chez, do we just give them a free pass? 1) you're championing a worthless read - he [b]always is anti-town regardless of alignment. 2) you can call it a "free pass" or whatever, but as it stands, there's no indication if he's town or scum. I like my chances building a case on a player that's actually readable at this point in the game - better than a 75/25 town/scum chance on Grush (or however the town/scum numbers are in this game). If he's always anti-town, shouldn't he be a more valid target for a vigi hit than a lurker? So you want to vigi hit a bad player rather than scum?
So you want to vigi hit a lurker playing off his meta rather than scum?
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Basically, a lurker playing off his meta is a little less pressing a concern than someone who actively goes around and shits up the thread while making themselves unreadable. Why? Scum will never kill them, so they'll end up surviving. As the game draws closer and closer to MYLO/LYLO that player becomes more and more damaging to town. I made that mistake with Chez in Normal Mini III and I'm not making it again here.
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On September 09 2012 13:36 Hapahauli wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2012 13:32 Shady Sands wrote:
Basically, a lurker playing off his meta is a little less pressing a concern than someone who actively goes around and shits up the thread while making themselves unreadable. Why? Scum will never kill them, so they'll end up surviving. As the game draws closer and closer to MYLO/LYLO that player becomes more and more damaging to town. I made that mistake with Chez in Normal Mini III and I'm not making it again here. So stop being a pussy about it and call the shot.
No, I'm calling for the shot on you and calling for the lynch on grush. I know I can get grush lynched, given how anti-town he's playing. You're a tougher nut to crack, especially with scumbuddies and misguided townies to soft-defend you.
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On September 09 2012 18:11 Kreb wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2012 15:10 Bill Murray wrote:On September 09 2012 07:09 slOosh wrote:
I don't even.
So Scum decided 1KP on BC was a good idea? ...
GK probably bombed ... so ...
Gah I'm just gonna wait till tomorrow NK to figure it out. By then vigs should have used their second bullet and should claim.
Gonna go cool off first. Notice the capitalization of scum, and him seeming to have too much knowledge. Couple that with IIoA and I'm a little suspicious. I didnt get this at least. From that post you make out that he seems to know too much. How? To me he is just speculating, which might not be worthy of a post to begin with but doesnt seem scummy to me.
Kreb, BM is just trolling. Can you look at the DP/me/Hapa exchange in the past few pages and give us your thoughts?
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Anyhow, what does everyone think about Hapa? To recap:
On September 09 2012 13:31 DarthPunk wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2012 13:17 Hapahauli wrote:On September 09 2012 13:15 Shady Sands wrote:On September 09 2012 12:59 Hapahauli wrote:On September 09 2012 12:53 Shady Sands wrote:On September 09 2012 12:49 Hapahauli wrote:
And as far as I'm concerned Shady, you've posted jack-shit in terms of your reads.
Put-up or shut-up. Right, because nearly starting a counter-wagon to the BKE mislynch on grush57 does not qualify as a read. And in case you're wondering, right you and him are my top scumreads. You made a case on GRush - if you think that's an actual read, you either haven't seen GRush play or you're smoking something that I want real bad right now. Cases and reads are equivalent. If you think they're different, then, you, sir, are the drug addict. So you made a read on Grush. You started a counter-wagon against someone who is traditionally the easiest mislynch in the game - someone who is going to behave just like that regardless of alignment. Yay for reads that matter! Still waiting for an answer to this btw: On September 09 2012 12:52 Hapahauli wrote:On September 09 2012 12:14 Shady Sands wrote:On September 09 2012 12:02 DarthPunk wrote:On September 09 2012 11:50 Shady Sands wrote:On September 09 2012 11:47 Hapahauli wrote:On September 09 2012 11:42 Shady Sands wrote:On September 09 2012 11:17 Hapahauli wrote:I retract my vigi-shot call on Rewok. He mentions the "lynch for blood" stuff earlier in his filter, and I'm willing to chalk it up to bad town. His giant wall-o-text posts giving everyone null-reads actually reads town to me - seems like a genuine attempt to contribute, despite being useless. However, I do think we should look into vigi-shotting ShiaoPi. Shiao is hardcore lurking in comparison to his other games as VT. Absolutely no content in Shaio's filter, and there are a couple of posts that fingerpoint like mad:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=361826¤tpage=47#929
Shaio originally wasn't posting because of "internet concerns." I believed Shiao at the time, but now it's becoming a habit. Why are you calling for a vig shot on Shiao for lurking and no call for a vig shot on me for lurking? I'm fingerpointing too. Do you think you're a better vig shot than Shaio? Do tell. I asked you first, Hapa. Please answer Yeah Hapa. Stop answering questions with questions. You have been extremely selective with your scum reads this game. I would also like to know why shaio over shady. Also how could you see Ottox as not scummy and BKE with a plausible watcher claim guaranteed scum. I am going to take a close look at your filter and XXI. Something is off about you. I agree. Hapa's usually a pretty good scumhunter. His posts on Ottox in particular are just strange; almost inviting a vigi hit on Ottox but backing away enough to give himself plausible deniability. Town Hapa (in Newbie Mini XXIII) didn't play like this. Oh haha I missed this - weren't you ranting for pages about me cheating in that game and getting lucky? Sounds like someone twisting meta to their own advantage. So you felt that Ottox was town despite the fact he was scummy as shit. And you think Grush is town Despite looking scummy as shit. But you were 100% positive on BKE and tunnelled him all of day 2 without changing your read or your case because he 'flip-flopped' on Matt. DESPITE HIS CLAIM and with several of us making counter arguments? Based on Flip flopping on Matt. Show nested quote +On September 04 2012 17:08 DarthPunk wrote:
On September 04 2012 16:21 Z-BosoN wrote:
All right, regarding the BC/Mattchew situation:
First of all, this post is wrong:
You are right, his fakeclaim doesn't prove he is mafia on its own. However, HIM ASKING FOR CLAIMS DOES. Why would a townie fakeclaim and attempt to get all blues to claim ? No townie day 1 should ever be this fuckign stupid. Even if he gets caught as mafia (as I have caught him) had anyone or if anyone proceeds to claim and a bunch of retard blues out themselves mafia is instantly ahead.
IIRC, he asked for people with the same role - noisy neighbor - to claim, not blues.
BC is making this main assumption:
No miller/neighbor is self aware in any game ever except odd pyp/ptp like setups as it defeats the purpose of the role. This game holds true to the same rule as normal games for the mechanic.
To put it simply, this is the main argument going on: how can he know he is a noisy neighbor if they are unaware?. Am I correct?
You have made it clear that you are 100% sure that this game does not include self-aware millers.
As a normal person, one could not make this assumption, as it would be statistical. Say 90% of games don't include self-aware millers. I have read the OP, and nowhere does it say that millers aren't self-aware, so you must have other reasons to know this, because no matter what, you say it is not an assumption.
The fact that you keep insisting would be ridiculous if you weren't indeed 100% certain, because, like sloosh said, you would most likely be lynched if he showed up town, making it a double town loss.
Did I get anything wrong here?
If not, ##Vote Mattchew
So you rail against all the reasoning behind the mattchew vote, say that there is zero evidence that he is lying and that it is based purely on conjecture, and then vote for him without adding anything to the case against him? Then you vote for him, completely contradicting the fact that you clearly state it is based on an assumption? o_0 I posted this on day one. You ignored it. Z - boson was similarly guilty. If you thought BKE was scum based on his interactions around Matt then you should have found Z - Boson suspicious also. And yet you don't mention him at all UNTIL Austin brings him up. You repeat what I posted day one and what Austin had been saying. It is suspicious as hell and yet you continue to tunnel BKE. And state that Z - Boson is town. You are being very selective on who you believe is scum/town and it is based on no shared thought processes from what I can see.
This + Hapa flipflopping on Ottox, while remaining adamant about BKE based on the same reasoning that led him to flip-flop on Ottox himself.
If Palmar has put a vet in the scumteam, Hapa looks like the biggest candidate.
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On September 09 2012 19:22 Kreb wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2012 18:40 Shady Sands wrote:On September 09 2012 18:11 Kreb wrote:On September 09 2012 15:10 Bill Murray wrote:On September 09 2012 07:09 slOosh wrote:
I don't even.
So Scum decided 1KP on BC was a good idea? ...
GK probably bombed ... so ...
Gah I'm just gonna wait till tomorrow NK to figure it out. By then vigs should have used their second bullet and should claim.
Gonna go cool off first. Notice the capitalization of scum, and him seeming to have too much knowledge. Couple that with IIoA and I'm a little suspicious. I didnt get this at least. From that post you make out that he seems to know too much. How? To me he is just speculating, which might not be worthy of a post to begin with but doesnt seem scummy to me. Kreb, BM is just trolling. Can you look at the DP/me/Hapa exchange in the past few pages and give us your thoughts? Well, I didnt ask him about the "lulz gay" post (troll post). I asked him about him finding someone suspicious, which doesnt seem like trolling to me. Anyway. Hapa apparently was a pretty big part in the mislynch against BKE, and then afterwards comes out strong with vig call on ShiaoPi. My first feeling is it would be pretty ballsy for a mafia to that (which is obviously a good reason to do it as mafia yea yea I get that). But continuing down the discussion I do think he seems quite (emotianlly?) invested in his scumhunting and his frustration is relevant for someone who is feeling he is being questioned more than he might deserve. Apart from that, a lot of your argument seems to be based on meta. His read on Shiao, your read on him not questioning you for your supposed off-what-you-normally-do-meta. I cant really comment on much of that since I dont have any meta reads at all on any of you. In addition I do like and agree with your reasonign on Grush. Giving him "free pass" is a bad idea to me because of what the situation might turn into should we get closer to mylo/lylo with him still in it. If we're gonna have to do a 75/25 guess on him at some point anyway we might as well do it earlier since it gives us an extra cycle to discuss whatever target we might go on should we give Grush a pass. A lot of this is apparently about meta too, but people seem to agree his play is always trollish/anti-townish so I'll go with that for now. And since we're talking meta anyway, whats the reason for your meta to be so off from your normal? I did see you mentioning a being busy at work in an earlier post, but not sure if thats the whole reason..
Emotional involvement is a null tell. Scum get angry just as much as town (thank you Blazinghand). My read on Hapa basically boils down to two things:
1) Hapa is playing off his meta while ignoring my shift on meta.
2) Hapa is being very selective/arbitrary in his scumhunting, and so far has led us to mislynch someone. Note that neither part of #2 is scummy on its own, but when taken together, are a clear scumtell.
As for my own quietness, I honestly was busy. Will still be busy tomorrow and the next few days.
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On September 09 2012 19:05 Forumite wrote:I don´t understand why Z-boson talks about asking vets to confirm the number of watchers. There are probably more watchers in this game but we can´t know, so using that as any basis for a lynch is a very bad idea. His post-lynch post about how vets should have confirmed the number of watchers and that there must be a scum among the vets, it's a useless post and doesn´t sit well with me. He´s trying to shift the blame on vets even though none of his suspicions have any grounds, but posts like that usually makes it easier to start a wagon later in the game because "people have been suspicious". I´d rather see Z-boson make a real case on someone. Toades, we don´t know if Palmar deliberately made sure to put vets on the scumteam. Even if Palmar put vets on the scumteam, I once lost the game for town (as town) by trying to start a wagon on Palmar, because he was leading town too well. Do you think it´s likely he´d try and boost the scumteam by adding me?  Also; Bill Murray, get in here.
How about not sweeping the whole Hapa/DP/me disagreement under the rug and commenting on it?
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Not just ignoring my meta. Read DP's case for more examples of being selective.
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On September 09 2012 20:24 Forumite wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2012 19:27 Shady Sands wrote:On September 09 2012 19:05 Forumite wrote:I don´t understand why Z-boson talks about asking vets to confirm the number of watchers. There are probably more watchers in this game but we can´t know, so using that as any basis for a lynch is a very bad idea. His post-lynch post about how vets should have confirmed the number of watchers and that there must be a scum among the vets, it's a useless post and doesn´t sit well with me. He´s trying to shift the blame on vets even though none of his suspicions have any grounds, but posts like that usually makes it easier to start a wagon later in the game because "people have been suspicious". I´d rather see Z-boson make a real case on someone. Toades, we don´t know if Palmar deliberately made sure to put vets on the scumteam. Even if Palmar put vets on the scumteam, I once lost the game for town (as town) by trying to start a wagon on Palmar, because he was leading town too well. Do you think it´s likely he´d try and boost the scumteam by adding me? Also; Bill Murray, get in here. How about not sweeping the whole Hapa/DP/me disagreement under the rug and commenting on it? Meh, I don´t think either of you stand out as especially scummy. I´ve been leaning town on Hapa for a while and the recent talk in the thread, what I´ve read of it, doesn´t change that.
Got it. I agree with portions of your Z-Boson scumread, btw, but not fully. What I find strange is how this whole discussion regarding vets being on the scumteam got started... and then immediately scum whacks two town vets (DrH and BC.) I know there's a connection there somewhere but I haven't been able to pin it down yet. I feel little like Bud White in LA Confidential. Where is my Ed Exley?
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On September 09 2012 21:46 Bill Murray wrote:
im voting shady sands from here on out
not trolling
just going to make you all pick me or him regardless of alignment
lol, why?
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On September 09 2012 22:47 Bill Murray wrote:
Guys ignore shadysands. He's trolling.
Quit acting like a toddler. You were trolling. I'm asking you why you think forcing town to limit its voting options to me or you will help town win.
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And BM please respond to DP's post.
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On September 09 2012 23:26 DarthPunk wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2012 22:51 Shady Sands wrote:
And BM please respond to DP's post. He did. I think. He clarified that although sloosh looks logical, his posts are just summations of what is happening rather than actual scum hunting.
Got it.
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On September 10 2012 03:54 austinmcc wrote:B-B-B-BONUS FIND! While reading through Forumite, there's this: Show nested quote +On September 04 2012 10:01 Forumite wrote:On September 04 2012 10:00 Z-BosoN wrote:
Hello folks ^^
I would appreciate it if someone could clear some things up, since I've never played in this setup yet. Right now I've noticed this new mechanic: visiting someone.
A nosy neighbor will randomly visit someone. This will be caught up by the town watcher and/or tracker.
Now what I don't understand: if a medic saves someone, or if a roleblocker blocks some, or if a Suicide Bomber plants a bomb somewhere, or if a goon tks someone, will they also "visit" this person? Yes, all nightactions, including mafia nightkills, can be detected by watchers and trackers. I´ve never seen you before. Have you been on TL-mafia long? What do you think about the game so far? Again, Z-BosoN so concerned with watchers. What do watchers see? What counts as visiting? How many watchers are in the game? Why is he so concerned with watchers? Cuz he's doing something that could get watched. And again, leaning assassin now because he's putting that in thread rather than into QT.
Hmmm, interesting.
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On September 11 2012 07:58 Forumite wrote:Show nested quote +On September 11 2012 07:48 imallinson wrote:On September 11 2012 07:24 Forumite wrote:
And there goes D3.
Come on guys, ignore the wagon for a while, where are the other scum? When I flip town, who is your next target? I´ve been away a few hours and the only thing that´s happened is that everyone´s said they want to lynch me. Doesn´t anyone have something else to add? Currently you are looking the most scummy. If you do flip town I'd say the best bet for scum would be Z-Boson. You've voted for him but haven't put much of a reason for people to follow you. It´s more than what happened during the Matt lynch, but it´s hard to put down as a case. I´ll see if I find any concrete evidence while rereading. It´s tough because there are a few I´m leaning town on, or at least put down as town for now, but there are soooooo many players that look a bit scummy. I often get really paranoid when things go bad, or even when things go well.
First off, sorry for the Hapa misread. I placed too much stock on his XXIII meta and expected similarly brilliant (cheating) play from him. (kidding about the cheating Hapa, I love you man.)
Second, Forumite's neck is on the chopping block and all he's done is make weak reads and flip flop everywhere. Look at the above post. It smacks of an attempt to respond while giving excuses for his lack of legit scum-reads. Going through his filter, all I see is WIFOM and a few bad cases; plus his first few posts (before he asked Palmar about Mattchew) look like he was trying to WIFOM watcher/trackers into complete inaction on Mattchew.
On September 04 2012 09:55 Forumite wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2012 09:43 Mattchew wrote:On September 04 2012 09:36 Forumite wrote:On September 04 2012 09:12 Mattchew wrote:
I am a nosy neighbor. Anyone else with this role should insta-claim as well.
The reason people policy lynch people like BM and Grush is because they get by into later in the game because they are unreadable. This is because they barely actually play the game and if you end up in lylo with one of them left, you've basically already lost. I completely understand anyone wanting to policy lynch them, but we should also not allow them to be off the hook for some sort of scum read during the day.
That being said, I remember thinking to myself that I don't hate BM's play in the last few games I have been in with him. I do not want to policy lynch today.
Why would you claim this? You eliminated yourself as a possible blue from scums list of townies, and it´s not like you doing this eliminates you as a scum suspect. If someone see you visiting a player who dies the we´re lynching you anyway. Because there is no town benefit to me hiding this information. and for all everyone knows I could be a blue role trying to avoid being incorrectly tracked as well if I get tracked to a dead person atleast there will be something to think about before mislynching me Lying to town as a blue is a bad idea. If you fakeclaim nosy neighbor to fool scum, then you risk getting lynched by town. You are still going to draw a few trackers during the first few nights, just to make sure that you are really visiting people at random with no effect, so because of this you might actually be hurting town by distracting blues.
Without further ado,
## Unvote
## Vote Forumite
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FYI--I still think Forumite is scum. However, as he posts more and more like this above, my read on him gets townier and townier. I don't share the opinion that Z-Boson or BM are scum yet, but I do believe they are worth watching.
My main scumreads right now are Gravan and MMToss.
Why? Because both came in at the eleventh hour and wagoned on Forumite late... plus their reads on Z-B or BM were woefully lacking for entering at such a late point in the debate.
IF they want to wagon forumite at this hour, town Gravan and town MMToss would at least put some thought into why they chose him over ZB and BM. But they didn't. That's the biggest scumtell of today--lurkers who try to look active but don't actually "show their work" with regards to their reads.
It's a bit late for a wagon so I will say this: town, please look into vigi-shooting one of these two tonight if Forumite flips green.
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On September 12 2012 06:43 Gravan wrote:Show nested quote +On September 12 2012 06:30 Shady Sands wrote:
FYI--I still think Forumite is scum. However, as he posts more and more like this above, my read on him gets townier and townier. I don't share the opinion that Z-Boson or BM are scum yet, but I do believe they are worth watching.
My main scumreads right now are Gravan and MMToss.
Why? Because both came in at the eleventh hour and wagoned on Forumite late... plus their reads on Z-B or BM were woefully lacking for entering at such a late point in the debate.
IF they want to wagon forumite at this hour, town Gravan and town MMToss would at least put some thought into why they chose him over ZB and BM. But they didn't. That's the biggest scumtell of today--lurkers who try to look active but don't actually "show their work" with regards to their reads.
It's a bit late for a wagon so I will say this: town, please look into vigi-shooting one of these two tonight if Forumite flips green. Just throwing this out there, but you have posted: Show nested quote +On September 10 2012 04:00 Shady Sands wrote:On September 10 2012 03:54 austinmcc wrote:B-B-B-BONUS FIND! While reading through Forumite, there's this: On September 04 2012 10:01 Forumite wrote:On September 04 2012 10:00 Z-BosoN wrote:
Hello folks ^^
I would appreciate it if someone could clear some things up, since I've never played in this setup yet. Right now I've noticed this new mechanic: visiting someone.
A nosy neighbor will randomly visit someone. This will be caught up by the town watcher and/or tracker.
Now what I don't understand: if a medic saves someone, or if a roleblocker blocks some, or if a Suicide Bomber plants a bomb somewhere, or if a goon tks someone, will they also "visit" this person? Yes, all nightactions, including mafia nightkills, can be detected by watchers and trackers. I´ve never seen you before. Have you been on TL-mafia long? What do you think about the game so far? Again, Z-BosoN so concerned with watchers. What do watchers see? What counts as visiting? How many watchers are in the game? Why is he so concerned with watchers? Cuz he's doing something that could get watched. And again, leaning assassin now because he's putting that in thread rather than into QT. Hmmm, interesting. Show nested quote +On September 11 2012 08:33 Shady Sands wrote:On September 11 2012 07:58 Forumite wrote:On September 11 2012 07:48 imallinson wrote:On September 11 2012 07:24 Forumite wrote:
And there goes D3.
Come on guys, ignore the wagon for a while, where are the other scum? When I flip town, who is your next target? I´ve been away a few hours and the only thing that´s happened is that everyone´s said they want to lynch me. Doesn´t anyone have something else to add? Currently you are looking the most scummy. If you do flip town I'd say the best bet for scum would be Z-Boson. You've voted for him but haven't put much of a reason for people to follow you. It´s more than what happened during the Matt lynch, but it´s hard to put down as a case. I´ll see if I find any concrete evidence while rereading. It´s tough because there are a few I´m leaning town on, or at least put down as town for now, but there are soooooo many players that look a bit scummy. I often get really paranoid when things go bad, or even when things go well. First off, sorry for the Hapa misread. I placed too much stock on his XXIII meta and expected similarly brilliant (cheating) play from him. (kidding about the cheating Hapa, I love you man.) Second, Forumite's neck is on the chopping block and all he's done is make weak reads and flip flop everywhere. Look at the above post. It smacks of an attempt to respond while giving excuses for his lack of legit scum-reads. Going through his filter, all I see is WIFOM and a few bad cases; plus his first few posts (before he asked Palmar about Mattchew) look like he was trying to WIFOM watcher/trackers into complete inaction on Mattchew. On September 04 2012 09:55 Forumite wrote:On September 04 2012 09:43 Mattchew wrote:On September 04 2012 09:36 Forumite wrote:On September 04 2012 09:12 Mattchew wrote:
I am a nosy neighbor. Anyone else with this role should insta-claim as well.
The reason people policy lynch people like BM and Grush is because they get by into later in the game because they are unreadable. This is because they barely actually play the game and if you end up in lylo with one of them left, you've basically already lost. I completely understand anyone wanting to policy lynch them, but we should also not allow them to be off the hook for some sort of scum read during the day.
That being said, I remember thinking to myself that I don't hate BM's play in the last few games I have been in with him. I do not want to policy lynch today.
Why would you claim this? You eliminated yourself as a possible blue from scums list of townies, and it´s not like you doing this eliminates you as a scum suspect. If someone see you visiting a player who dies the we´re lynching you anyway. Because there is no town benefit to me hiding this information. and for all everyone knows I could be a blue role trying to avoid being incorrectly tracked as well if I get tracked to a dead person atleast there will be something to think about before mislynching me Lying to town as a blue is a bad idea. If you fakeclaim nosy neighbor to fool scum, then you risk getting lynched by town. You are still going to draw a few trackers during the first few nights, just to make sure that you are really visiting people at random with no effect, so because of this you might actually be hurting town by distracting blues. Without further ado, ## Unvote
## Vote Forumite During this entire day cycle. Which is one more post that myself, up until the last hour or so. While it certainly is true that the bulk of my posting has been right before the vote, you have contributed less than I have. The only claim you have over me is that you stated your position of Forumite earlier, then lurked.
You didn't really get the gist of my post, so I'll state it again.
What does scum have to do? Every vote cycle, whenever scum pushes a read early, they're either bussing or pushing a mislynch. One move is painful, the other move is risky and costs towncred. Hence scum want to wait until late in the vote cycle, hoping that one or two townies have already started a wagon on another townie, and then they will join the wagon in as inconspicuous a manner as possible. They essentially join the wagon without going through the townie steps of actually asking themselves why this person is scum--instead they join the wagon thinking whether this wagon will cost them towncred or not.
That is what I was calling you out for above. When you don't show your work with your reads late in the vote-cycle, and then commit based on those reads, you fit the scum profile I just listed. That's why I'm calling for a vig hit on you and MMToss.
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On September 12 2012 06:50 Gravan wrote:
I chose forumite over Z-Boson and Bill Murray because I am uncertain about them in general (as you chose to ignore). I also believe (also as you chose to ignore) that Forumite is scum because of the methods he is using as a 'defence', in addition to the reasons (such as flip-floppiness) presented in the strong cases posted here already.
The reasons you presented don't hold water. Why is pointing fingers and making cases a bad defense? If he flips scum, we can choose to ignore his reads. If he flips town, at least we were able to get his reads before he died.
On the other hand, if all he does is say "I'm not scum" in a dozen different ways, then all town gets when he flips green is... that he was green. Town gets no other information.
You seem to be thinking that the best defense is the one that gets a townie off the hook the fastest. No, the best defense is one where the townie contributes the most to the scumhunt regardless of whether the mislynch on him succeeds.
Forumite hasn't been flip-floppy in the past 24 hours--instead, he's pursued two alternate cases very strongly even though there's a gun to his head. This is good town play. My regret is that there are not enough hours left today to push a wagon on people lying on the exact opposite of the spectrum... people like you.
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Vig please hit Gravan or MMToss.
Going to flip a coin right now between them... and
## Vote Gravan
Will check in once night is over.
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EPT
