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On September 09 2012 02:28 austinmcc wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2012 02:19 DarthPunk wrote:
@ Austin Are you 100% opposed to the Grush lynch? Would you vote for him in order to consolidate away from BKE? I am 100% opposed to a Grush lynch right now. (1) I don't think he's scummy. (2) I think he's an easy mislynch for mafia to push, and I don't like that he immediately floated to the top. (3) He'll be around. IF BKE was town, mafia was probably on him, at least some members. All yesterday, BKE was the lynch, ezpz. Then he claims watcher. Now, that plan is in the crapper because people are moving away. I swear there's a post from Ace somewhere saying that the worst thing that happen to you is scum is for just a random event to break up your plan. A vig shot on a player, a confirmable claim from your mislynch target, things that break up the flow of your plan and force confusion/panic, ruin your work. I can't find it now. But I'm pretty sure it exists, if you know where it is, bonus austinpoints. BKE's claim doesn't really do that. There's still plenty of time to scheme. BUT. BUT. If we also don't lynch Grush, that really throws things for a loop. If we can generate discussion, some new reads, watch reactions, that's a lot of info for town. It's almost like...not lynching Grush for info? How does everyone react, what are the other reads we get, etc. It changes mafia's target twice if they're both town (and we can actually find a scum or two to push). Their actions and responses are useful to us. Grush isn't pulling any strings here, you can lynch him later if you want to because you don't really have to worry about him being scum and influencing town, he doesn't take a leadership role.
This is completely WIFOM. How can you say that the reason we don't lynch grush is because he's not in a town leadership role when BKE has much less towncred than him?
Furthermore, I don't get what the first half of your post talking about a random event is supposed to refer to. Can you explain?
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On September 09 2012 02:34 grush57 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2012 02:29 DarthPunk wrote:On September 09 2012 02:28 grush57 wrote:
So BKE or Z Boson? care to answer my question? Sigh, I guess BKE is scum, fakeclaiming and just idk man. Plus if we lynch BKE and he flips scum we'll get a lot of info from pushing me the easy lynch. ##Unvote##Vote: BroodKingExe
You're still not answering DP's question.
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On September 09 2012 02:43 austinmcc wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2012 02:31 Shady Sands wrote:On September 09 2012 02:28 austinmcc wrote:On September 09 2012 02:19 DarthPunk wrote:
@ Austin Are you 100% opposed to the Grush lynch? Would you vote for him in order to consolidate away from BKE? I am 100% opposed to a Grush lynch right now. (1) I don't think he's scummy. (2) I think he's an easy mislynch for mafia to push, and I don't like that he immediately floated to the top. (3) He'll be around. IF BKE was town, mafia was probably on him, at least some members. All yesterday, BKE was the lynch, ezpz. Then he claims watcher. Now, that plan is in the crapper because people are moving away. I swear there's a post from Ace somewhere saying that the worst thing that happen to you is scum is for just a random event to break up your plan. A vig shot on a player, a confirmable claim from your mislynch target, things that break up the flow of your plan and force confusion/panic, ruin your work. I can't find it now. But I'm pretty sure it exists, if you know where it is, bonus austinpoints. BKE's claim doesn't really do that. There's still plenty of time to scheme. BUT. BUT. If we also don't lynch Grush, that really throws things for a loop. If we can generate discussion, some new reads, watch reactions, that's a lot of info for town. It's almost like...not lynching Grush for info? How does everyone react, what are the other reads we get, etc. It changes mafia's target twice if they're both town (and we can actually find a scum or two to push). Their actions and responses are useful to us. Grush isn't pulling any strings here, you can lynch him later if you want to because you don't really have to worry about him being scum and influencing town, he doesn't take a leadership role. This is completely WIFOM. How can you say that the reason we don't lynch grush is because he's not in a town leadership role when BKE has much less towncred than him? Furthermore, I don't get what the first half of your post talking about a random event is supposed to refer to. Can you explain? This isn't really a random event. But I swear that quote exists about just...things you can't expect messing with scum plans. A vigi shooting someone you needed. A DT check on someone you needed. Someone picking at something and unraveling your plot. I think that's the sort of stuff Ace was talking about (I will go look for this, once I'm down sifting through Z-boson harder, just preoccupied right now and mainly typing, rather than looking at thread). But imagine...some things you see coming. X has a read on Y all game. You can mess with that. You can mess with claimed roles. You can shoot active and problematic people. You want to control the thread, control the lynches, whenever you need to (and maybe even when you don't). So you're more likely to...plan things? as scum. When are we bussing x, who are we going to push, how, which 3 are going to push x and who will push y instead, etc. Sudden events mess with those plans. This...isn't quite the same. But the fact that we had a lynch on BKE, then he claims and sparks discussion and town swaps to looking more at Grush, then town starts talking about BKE v. Grush v. Other options (hopefully more than just Z-Boson anyone have anything?) throws a wrench into the works of any plans. They had a day where they were just sitting back to lynch BKE, or setting him up (if he's town). Then that got interfered with. No problem, Grush is here. We can push a lynch onto Grush. Then that is maybe being interfered with. That's what I'm hoping to do. It's not...random. I can't even be sure both are town. But the less...the less town moves predictably, the less scum can do to control it? I'm not sure this is exactly true, but I'm kind of playing around with it in my head. So not random events messing with scum, but just...sudden changes in targets, multiple times over a day, MAY shake out some information.
You do realize that scum could just lurk like crazy and turn your "shake-up" plan into a way to exploit a weak divided town?
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Regardless of what you believe about his claim, why isn't BKE actively participating in this discussion? This looks really scummy.
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On September 09 2012 03:10 Z-BosoN wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2012 03:06 DarthPunk wrote:
I don't like how BKE has gone quiet. I need to sleep and it looks doubtful that we can't get a switch happening anyway.
I seriously hope that if BKE is actually town, he shows up. If I am a blue, and I am set to be lynched, I would definitely be answering to the cases against me left and right. Going AWOL is a scummy trait (i.e. mattchew).
Agreed. Switching back to BKE.
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On September 09 2012 03:25 austinmcc wrote:Z-boson. Gonna half-build a case here I guess, because he's a better lynch than Grush. Interactions with players he knows+ Show Spoiler +On August 31 2012 03:59 Z-BosoN wrote:
Shady Sands, DarthPunk and goodkarma, great seeing you gents around here.
Looking forward to this game. XXIV was quite the experience, and hope this one gets as fun.
I do hope I can manage this game without screwing up RL as much though =) We know he's played before, and he's played with Shady, DarthPunk, and goodkarma. How does he interact with each of them? With DarthPunk, here's his first interaction - + Show Spoiler +On September 04 2012 11:12 Z-BosoN wrote:
There is a lot of people who have not yet posted. The views on policy lynch, from what I've gathered, are varied. Absolute lurkers will get modkilled, so should we discuss what to do with people who have posted one or two crap posts and disappeared?
@Darthpunk
Unjustified accusations won't get us anywhere. If you are going to say it was retarded, say why.
snipped
@slOosh
Very well, seems reasonable. Thanks for clearing that up. What is your take on Darthpunk?
##Unvote
He read what DarthPunk said, but didn't address him directly. Asked him a question, asked slOosh about darth, but not much direct interaction. First interaction with Shady? Nope, he never interacts with shady. Hasn't quote a shady post, said hi, called him out for lurking, etc. etc. First interaction with goodkarma? + Show Spoiler +On September 04 2012 11:16 Z-BosoN wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2012 11:03 goodkarma wrote:Hey all  A couple general observations for what I've just read: -I don't follow some of the voting that's already taken place in this thread. I don't get why some of us feel the need to vote for each other this early with little to no information to back a vote up. Imho, we should be working to establish a strong, pro-town atmosphere just as much as we are to find a lynch candidate for today. -I remember Hapa saying this once before: lynching one of the most vocal members day one is typically not the best idea. Looking back at how NMM XXIV turned out (Shady's lynch), others here should agree with me that there's at least some evidence to support this. Town loses so much more from a mislynch of a vocal town than of a semi-lurker, and, at least in my experience, you're much more likely to lynch a town than a scum when you target the most vocal day one player. I'm not going to assume that sloosh is town at this point, but the effort he's taken to pressure others with his posts is definitely conducive towards a pro-town atmosphere. Along those lines, I feel that Z-Boson's early vote on sloosh could very well be scum motivated. I disagree that sloosh's discussion is unhelpful. Maybe scum or town could pressure people like sloosh has, but he's pushing for more information so he's not stuck making a weak case against others, as Z-Boson has with sloosh: ##FoS: Z-Boson Howdy gk There are good ways to push information, and bad ways. By the way that almost ALL his posts were questions and the fact that some of them could easily have been avoided, I interpreted them as adding confusion rather than removing it. Thus, I pressured him to respond to this and was satisfied with his reply. The reason for the vote this early is evidently to force answers, just as your FOS did with me  For now, just note the difference. He's played with these guys. But he smilies at goodkarma, they talk directly to each other. He also doesn't seem to feel very threatened by goodkarma's FoS. He's WINKING at a guy FoSing him. That bugs me, because not feeling at all threatened COULD indicate that he knows goodkarma is just writing stuff for show. Conclusion I draw - Either both are scumbuddies, so Z-Boson has a different relation with goodkarma this game than with shady or DarthPunk, or I'm pulling stuff out of my ass. You decide. Note also that the way goodkarma entered, FoSing Z-Boson, is different than the other entrances, and could explain a different reaction (Hard not to respond directly to guy X when he FoSes you). Z-Boson on BC/Mattchew - On September 04 2012 16:21 Z-BosoN wrote:All right, regarding the BC/Mattchew situation: First of all, this post is wrong: Show nested quote +You are right, his fakeclaim doesn't prove he is mafia on its own. However, HIM ASKING FOR CLAIMS DOES. Why would a townie fakeclaim and attempt to get all blues to claim ? No townie day 1 should ever be this fuckign stupid. Even if he gets caught as mafia (as I have caught him) had anyone or if anyone proceeds to claim and a bunch of retard blues out themselves mafia is instantly ahead. IIRC, he asked for people with the same role - noisy neighbor - to claim, not blues. BC is making this main assumption: Show nested quote +No miller/neighbor is self aware in any game ever except odd pyp/ptp like setups as it defeats the purpose of the role. This game holds true to the same rule as normal games for the mechanic. To put it simply, this is the main argument going on: how can he know he is a noisy neighbor if they are unaware?. Am I correct? You have made it clear that you are 100% sure that this game does not include self-aware millers. As a normal person, one could not make this assumption, as it would be statistical. Say 90% of games don't include self-aware millers. I have read the OP, and nowhere does it say that millers aren't self-aware, so you must have other reasons to know this, because no matter what, you say it is not an assumption. The fact that you keep insisting would be ridiculous if you weren't indeed 100% certain, because, like sloosh said, you would most likely be lynched if he showed up town, making it a double town loss. Did I get anything wrong here? If not, ##Vote Mattchew Note the timestamp. This is before Palmar's confirmation. Look at it too...it's kind of...wonky. He doesn't understand how BC can KNOW that nosy beighbors weren't self-aware. He thinks it's ridiculous to insist that they're not, there's a chance that they are. But what does he do? He just votes mattchew. He's ARGUING THAT MATTCHEW MIGHT BE A SELF-AWARE NOSY NEIGHBOR, ACTIVELY SAYING "MAYBE MATTCHEW IS ACTUALLY SELF-AWARE, YOU CAN'T BE SURE BC." Yet, after arguing that, after saying Matt is maybe right, BC can't be sure...he votes Matt. He just votes Matt. Matt the guy he's trying to help out here. Doesn't wait for confirmation, doesn't discuss matt's scumminess or not scumminess, whether he believes nosy neighbors are self-aware or not, just votes matt. WhaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaAAAAAAAAaaaaaAAAAAaaA????? In addition to that - KAPOW! On September 05 2012 10:53 Z-BosoN wrote:Show nested quote +On September 05 2012 10:18 BlackMamba24 wrote:
Z-BoSoN hasn't posted since heaping suspicion on BC and from what I recall of at least the Death Note Obs QT he is quite attentive and active on TL, reading and updating himself a lot. I'm here. Still catching up, lots of posts to go over. Will exercise and post soon. BM24 noticed that Z-Boson was acting weird, and hadn't done anything for, by the way, 18 hours. Z-Boson NEVER came back to say "Oh, you were right BC." Z-Boson NEVER came back to discuss Palmar's confirmation. EVERYONE was discussing that crap, even when matt flipped. But not Z-boson. Moreover, does he ever discuss Matt further? Yup. On September 05 2012 12:43 Z-BosoN wrote:
Allright, Mattchew is set to be lynched.
What can we conclude if he flips scum or town?
In the unlikely event that he will flip town, will we have enough evidence to go for a BC lynch?
My take is, if he flips town, BC's suspicions will go way up, but I don't agree with insta-lynch. We all agreed that fakeclaiming is not something a blue role would do, and is most likely coming from scum.
If he flips scum, then we will take a long hard look at the people who insist that he shouldn't be lynched.
Ox, as of now, is my top candidate for a lynch. He's been so obnoxious and so annoying regarding the whole Mattchew business that he looks the most suspicious up to now. He also has been of zero usefulness this entire game.
@Shiaopi
Your meta is a little off from Dwarf Mafia, where you were town and had much more contribuitive posts in day 1. When will your internet be fixed? This post feels wonky. WONKY. You're voting for the guy, never discussed Palmar's confirmation, and now you want to play the "Okay, where do we go if he flips town, flips scum?" game. Why are you doing this? This post is just...throwaway. There's nothing in it but the shiaopi question. It's not awful...but...it's just a weird post. Let's talk about this thing that we can talk about later once Matt flips and we don't need to talk about now. Let's spam up thread with speculation about each situation. No need to do that. Much later on, this - On September 06 2012 07:42 Z-BosoN wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2012 07:29 BlackMamba24 wrote:
ooh and if BC is scum so is Z-BoSoN imo Wasn't gonna bother, but please, enlighten me. Is this just gut feeling or do you have any specific reasons? Anyways, regarding him, why exactly did he absolutely know that NN's aren't self-aware? This might have been answered or is obvious but I can't find anything. For now, my vote goes to Oxtrott. Z-BosoN asks how BC knew NN's weren't self-aware. He answered this. He PMed Palmar, before everyone else did. He was sitting on the answer but couldn't say because of the rules in the OP. Not reading thread. Not only does Ottox not talk about any of the confirmation stuff, but he didn't read it closely, because BC mentioned how he knew NN's weren't self-aware a good bit (Remember, there was back and forth between BM24 and BC about it). Look at page 2 of Z-Boson's filter. Here. Doop de doop de doop. Some discussion, lots of talk about Ottoxlol. Lots of stuff about Ottoxlol. Then finally gives what I consider to be a really, really decent post. On September 06 2012 06:41 Z-BosoN wrote:
Oh god, not this again.
Can we just ignore ox?? It's pointless arguing with him. That's good. That's townie. Ox was preeeeeetty much gonna die. By vig, by lynch, somehow. We SHOULD have stopped arguing with him. Gj townie Z-BosoN! But...Z-BosoN didn't take his own advice. Continue looking at that page. And the next one. LOTS of stuff still on Ottoxlol. It's not the scummiest thing ever, but ... it negates the most townie thing I find in his filter. I'm not even linking posts here, just check the filter. There are boatloads. Nobody ever really said anything NEW about Ottox from the point he started looking weird until the "scumslip" on mafia numbers. That was the single new point of information we got about Ottox really. Every one of us that was just posting about Ottox and posting about Ottox was kind of wasting time, getting out meaningless posts. I did it, others did as well, so it's not like it's scum-only. But it's a convenient way to get in a lot of posting and look active, post a bunch on this topic that doesn't matter. On September 08 2012 07:17 Z-BosoN wrote:I'm going to leave the BKE thing on hold for now, until we hear what he has to say. If he says nothing and doesn't bother scumhunting and gracing us with his thoughts on the game, then my vote will be on him 100%.
Meanwhile, I've done reading the post by Toad, and also took the time to read his filter from LI and what was the "best bus in TL history" he mentioned. Your post had a ton of stuff to read, and I have some issues and some doubts regarding it. Let's do this. First off, you post this: Show nested quote +On September 07 2012 03:58 Toadesstern wrote:
I really don't like the cases on forumite (or vets in general this game) as they're incredibly far-fetched, which is obvious considering the fact that we're still on d1/n1.
That being said I still (somewhat?) agree with the conclusion but I'll post shortly before deadline :p Can I ask, what conclusion do you agree with? Because the conclusion on the case against forumite is this: Show nested quote +Why does Matt flipping red imply that I'm red as well? Why can't I be continuing to hunt scum? I still think Forumite is scum. My case was not an effort to divert the thread, it was an attempt to focus it. I wasn't around to do so, and feel free to call me scum for not following through before, but wait and see, you'll run out of steam on that front in a moment. But that doesn't make sense with your "I don't like the case on forumite". Please do explain what conclusion you meant. Now, onward to your (seemingly classic) motherfuckin wall of text. Show nested quote +On September 07 2012 06:59 Toadesstern wrote:Toads very important thoughts mostly about VETs and whatever else
I consider important so far I'm doing this post because I'm probably going to die tonight. I consider myself a vet and most people probably consider me a vet as well but unlike BC I usually don't draw protection from medics for two reasons I don't need to go into detail right now, although the reasoning becomes apparant after reading the whole thing :p First important topic: VETs in this game - Forumite
- BlackMamba24 (referred to as DrH from now on to not confuse him with BM)
- BloodyC0bbler
- Bill Murray
- Toadesstern/myself :p
That's my take on who's a vet in this game. A lot of people think it's hard to analyse vets to a point that they almost got a mental blockade when it comes to vets, that's why I'm going to post some about those 4/5 although I don't have anything major yet, though I've got a conclusion I'm quite comfortable with. First things first, I did this post ( + Show Spoiler [click me!] +On September 06 2012 07:40 Toadesstern wrote:
Bam. Watcher on people like BC and me please.
Mafia will want to hit that. ) on purpose trying to get some reactions, mainly from vets. Simply put I was trying to rub a subtile "sup guys I'm comfirmed town now" into peoples faces to see what they're going to say. Why did I do that? 1) Yes, why did you do that? Let's see. Right now I'm looking for an explanation as to why you wanted to hear what vets had to say regarding your town claimI am an incredible controversial guy and a shitton of people are scared like crazy about me because I'm apparently unreadable according to them. I'm a little like BC-junior, or maybe WBG-junior in that regard because people tell me I'm looking pro-town no matter of alignment every single game. So usually I'm getting the same old crap about me every game "Toad is looking townish, but that's a null-tell because Toad always looks that way". Take AC for example, Radfield actually told his scumbuddies to just attack me for looking good because I'm always looking good. WBG called the play VE and I did in LI "the best bus TL has ever seen", he said I'm unreadable in PTP, I totally destroyed town in magic and surely everyone remembers the "Annul game" (sup palmer :p). Except for PyourPoison I destroyed pretty much every town I played against as mafia and every single game I was called a townie by the vast majority of the game while telling people what to do. That's the reason I'm getting these bullshit arguments like "Toad is unreadable" / "Toad is looking town but that means nothing" all the time. No matter if I'm town or mafia and frankly I was expecting to hear something like that from a mafia-player because it's an incredible easy approach to attack someone because you can just say that EVERY single game. Sadly it never happened.
However I still ended up getting some reactions although they're minor ones.2*) So you are saying that you were expecting a vet to say you were unreadable etc. etc. and attack you based on it? i.e., had one of the four vets said anything in an aggressive manner, you would have pegged him as scum and attacked him later on?tl;dr / Summary so far:- I am town
- BC is pretty much town
- I highly lean on BM being town giving his style. He attacked me during this night for something he thought to be something. It obviously was nothing but his argument was not the typical "toad is unreadable, BE AFRAID GUYS" fear mongering I get all the time and I doubt a mafia would get in there attacking me the way he did.
That leaves us with Foru and DrH. DrH still feels odd although I can't put my finger on it. Foru feels way to cautios when he's posting.
I'm almost certain one of those 2 got to be mafia and considering that my guts are telling me that foru feels cautios I'd rather bet on him being mafia by some degree.3*) So you don't like the cases on foru, you don't say why AND even add that you don't like targeting vets (in the previous post), and your guts are telling you that you would bet on him being mafia despite shitting on the main case against him so far? This all due to your experience with him and your gut feelings?The thing about this is that it's not a clear case. What I've got about those 3 (BM / foru / drH) so far is very minor and not worth making a case about so I'm not going to. However process of elimination is a nice approach for those kind of people and that being said I really doubt BM or BC are mafia. 4*) Ok, this explains why you aren't making cases against them and is being consistent with your "let's not target vets" approach. Since this part of your post mainly deals with vets, I am to assume this pseudo-read on forumite is just a comparative between the vets and not actually a real go-through-with-it suspicion?5**) Just to make it ultra-clear: Now that both DrH and BC are dead, do you think forumite/BM are mafia? People who are not vets but should be a topicOttox: No need to talk about him I guess DoYouHas: He's looking bad when posting but I actually like his answers strongandbig: That guy should be scared as shit about me but he isn't. Not at all. To be precise he's even pretty buddy-ish with me. I think he knows I'm not mafia. Do not like. BroodKingEXE: Weirdest vote from d1. Other than that he's fine but the vote really looks like "let's scatter at least SOMEWHAT, just pretend you forgot to unvote BKE" If Ottox somehow manages to survive the night you've got to lynch him no matter what. It's actually quite possible that we've got vigs thinking "well we probably got a bunch of vigs who want to shoot him so I don't need to as well. No need to quadrupel-stack him". I've been in that situation as well and ended up shooting my #2 reads instead of my #1 reads (AC comes to mind  ) because I thought someone else would take care of the #1 read anyways because the guy was pretty much confirmed mafia. Ottox definitly is the best lynch if he survives. BKE & S+B are mentioned because I want people to check their filter as well. I'm not set on lynching them yet but they're the best candidates I've got besides the "usual" ones. I'd rather not have people just forget about them.6*) So now we've had a full case on BKE, and people are starting to sheep, what do you think on BKE? You mentioned him here as being fishy, and now I'm guessing you should be more than inclined to lynch him, yes? That being said I think it's quite likely I'm going to be dead in a couple of minutes so I'm posting this to give a couple of thoughts in case I'm not around any more. They're obviously all pretty vague because it's d1/n1 after all and thereforet it's just a summary. That means you've got to check filters yourself to understand what I'm talking about and wether or not you agree with me. Regretted not doing that in WoF when I was shot n1 as well ...
Right now we're having quite a luxury problem though: We're having to many people doing cases about everyone and their dog. That's totally fine in itself but you guys need to make sure you got some focus tomorrow. Talking about a lot of people is fine but if everyone's like a little gonzaw we'll have 25 people screaming "NO MY CASE IS THE BEST" and mafia has an easy time to pick a fitting case out of the 15915815 existing ones and will push that one. So don't spam the thread too much. This post I just did is already a wall-of-text although I'm only scratching the surface of things when talking about stuff. So keep that in mind tomorrow. 7) LOL at you/gonzaw in LI. He was extremely paranoid... funny thing was he was correct Ok, so I've referenced the writings in red so you have an easier time answering. The quantity of asterisks in each number indicate how much I would like an answer from you. Btw, you sure have a high opinion of yourself. Also, I forgot to reference this, but since I do not want to change the whole numbering now, also, please answer this: 5.5*) Why should S&B be scared shitless of you? (1) He claims to have read LI. Both HERE Meanwhile, I've done reading the post by Toad, and also took the time to read his filter from LI and what was the "best bus in TL history" he mentioned. and HERE 7) LOL at you/gonzaw in LI. He was extremely paranoid... funny thing was he was correct Toad lets us know that LI was massive On September 09 2012 02:12 Toadesstern wrote:
I actually don't believe z-boson read the game I was talking about (LI). That shit of a game had about 130 pages of bullshit by the end of d2 if I remember correctly :p
No way someone would force himself into reading THAT. Z-BosoN clearly either read the game or didn't. He references Gonzaw being paranoid and correct. He's pulling out specific facts. Either he went and read a ginormous game for this one offhand comment of Toad's, or he knows facts about LI from someone that was involved (Toad). Which is more likely? Just now he says this, after getting called out on it - Of course I didn't read the whole thing. Why would I do that if all I wanted was your meta? I also didn't read the entirety of your filter, because even THAT was too much. Just skimmed over your posts, reading your main cases and that pony image wall of text you posted. Again, Z-BosoN discusses Gonzaw's interactions. Z-BosoN says he just skimmed Toad's posts, drops a specific thing he noticed "pony image all of text," but knows about Gonzaw's suspicions. I just get a bad feeling from this, like it's covering up the fact that he didn't read but has knowledge of the game. (2) His questions feel like...politician questions? Read these, and see whether they're things you really ask, or if you ask you don't follow up on - 2*) So you are saying that you were expecting a vet to say you were unreadable etc. etc. and attack you based on it? i.e., had one of the four vets said anything in an aggressive manner, you would have pegged him as scum and attacked him later on? 3*) So you don't like the cases on foru, you don't say why AND even add that you don't like targeting vets (in the previous post), and your guts are telling you that you would bet on him being mafia despite shitting on the main case against him so far? This all due to your experience with him and your gut feelings? 4*) Ok, this explains why you aren't making cases against them and is being consistent with your "let's not target vets" approach. Since this part of your post mainly deals with vets, I am to assume this pseudo-read on forumite is just a comparative between the vets and not actually a real go-through-with-it suspicion? 5**) Just to make it ultra-clear: Now that both DrH and BC are dead, do you think forumite/BM are mafia? Those questions feel wrong. They're not actually seeking information. Most of them just want Toad to say the same thing over again. Toad says x. Z-Boson asks, "So what you're saying is x?" That's a silly question, especially when you ask it 4 times or so. Either ask better questions, or follow-up, or SOMETHING. Lots of calling people out without calling them out. Poking around DarthPunk early, no followup. FoSes Maverick, references him throughout N1 and D2, but that's kind of it, willing to do BKE/grush. Doesn't buy BKE's claim, but hesitant to vote for him, seems like he's biding his time to see where things fall. Shady's meta is off, the end. Finally, because I just can't help it + Show Spoiler +Z-BosoN. Z-Bo Son. We already talked about BM24 and basketball. Z-Bo = the nickname of Zach Randolph, another NBA player. Perhaps best known for previously being a bit of a loose cannon, punching a guy and getting suspended. Solid player now, but when he was younger, he was kind of chippy. Now seems to be more mature, really helping the Grizzlies.
Z-BosoN = Z-Bo's Son, an earlier Z-Bo. Back when he wasn't mature yet. Punching guys in the jaw, what a younger Z-Bo did, doesn't sound townie to me. It sounds scummy!
I'm not convinced on Z-B being a scum because he had some pretty acrimonious exchanges with GK on D1. In all the games I've played, scum pretty much ignore each other D1, so that's a very strong town-tell in my books.
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On September 09 2012 03:40 austinmcc wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2012 03:37 Shady Sands wrote:
I'm not convinced on Z-B being a scum because he had some pretty acrimonious exchanges with GK on D1. In all the games I've played, scum pretty much ignore each other D1, so that's a very strong town-tell in my books. Look at their filters. The most acrimonious thing is GK FoSing Z-Boson. To which he responds with smilies. GK points out that weird "If matt is town if matt is scum" post, but does nothing with it. I find no acrimonious exchanges, and only one real accusation that's just an FoS followed by smilies.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=361826¤tpage=32#630
This is what I was referring to.
Still on a second look it does look weaker than I expected. Could be a distancing move, although at this point it's not enough for me to base a lynch upon (especially when BKE looks so scummy.) Going to take a nap now.
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On September 09 2012 11:17 Hapahauli wrote:I retract my vigi-shot call on Rewok. He mentions the "lynch for blood" stuff earlier in his filter, and I'm willing to chalk it up to bad town. His giant wall-o-text posts giving everyone null-reads actually reads town to me - seems like a genuine attempt to contribute, despite being useless. However, I do think we should look into vigi-shotting [b] ShiaoPi[b]. Shiao is hardcore lurking in comparison to his other games as VT. Absolutely no content in Shaio's filter, and there are a couple of posts that fingerpoint like mad: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=361826¤tpage=47#929Shaio originally wasn't posting because of "internet concerns." I believed Shiao at the time, but now it's becoming a habit.
Why are you calling for a vig shot on Shiao for lurking and no call for a vig shot on me for lurking? I'm fingerpointing too.
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On September 09 2012 11:47 Hapahauli wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2012 11:42 Shady Sands wrote:On September 09 2012 11:17 Hapahauli wrote:I retract my vigi-shot call on Rewok. He mentions the "lynch for blood" stuff earlier in his filter, and I'm willing to chalk it up to bad town. His giant wall-o-text posts giving everyone null-reads actually reads town to me - seems like a genuine attempt to contribute, despite being useless. However, I do think we should look into vigi-shotting [b] ShiaoPi[b]. Shiao is hardcore lurking in comparison to his other games as VT. Absolutely no content in Shaio's filter, and there are a couple of posts that fingerpoint like mad: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=361826¤tpage=47#929Shaio originally wasn't posting because of "internet concerns." I believed Shiao at the time, but now it's becoming a habit. Why are you calling for a vig shot on Shiao for lurking and no call for a vig shot on me for lurking? I'm fingerpointing too. Do you think you're a better vig shot than Shaio? Do tell.
I asked you first, Hapa. Please answer
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On September 09 2012 11:59 Hapahauli wrote:
no.
Quit being petulant. You're calling for a vig shot on the basis of lurking and fingerpointing. If so, why not call for it on me or any of the other lurkers here?
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On September 09 2012 12:02 DarthPunk wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2012 11:50 Shady Sands wrote:On September 09 2012 11:47 Hapahauli wrote:On September 09 2012 11:42 Shady Sands wrote:On September 09 2012 11:17 Hapahauli wrote:I retract my vigi-shot call on Rewok. He mentions the "lynch for blood" stuff earlier in his filter, and I'm willing to chalk it up to bad town. His giant wall-o-text posts giving everyone null-reads actually reads town to me - seems like a genuine attempt to contribute, despite being useless. However, I do think we should look into vigi-shotting [b] ShiaoPi[b]. Shiao is hardcore lurking in comparison to his other games as VT. Absolutely no content in Shaio's filter, and there are a couple of posts that fingerpoint like mad: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=361826¤tpage=47#929Shaio originally wasn't posting because of "internet concerns." I believed Shiao at the time, but now it's becoming a habit. Why are you calling for a vig shot on Shiao for lurking and no call for a vig shot on me for lurking? I'm fingerpointing too. Do you think you're a better vig shot than Shaio? Do tell. I asked you first, Hapa. Please answer Yeah Hapa. Stop answering questions with questions. You have been extremely selective with your scum reads this game. I would also like to know why shaio over shady. Also how could you see Ottox as not scummy and BKE with a plausible watcher claim guaranteed scum. I am going to take a close look at your filter and XXI. Something is off about you.
I agree. Hapa's usually a pretty good scumhunter. His posts on Ottox in particular are just strange; almost inviting a vigi hit on Ottox but backing away enough to give himself plausible deniability. Town Hapa (in Newbie Mini XXIII) didn't play like this.
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On September 09 2012 12:22 Hapahauli wrote:
And goddamnit, if you want the answer to why I'm calling a shot on ShiaoPi - META. He has barely a page of filter, which is completely inconsistent with any of his other town games. I even said that in my post too - not only are you lurking, but you don't fucking read.
So what? My META is even further off my town guys and I haven't heard a peep from you about it. And yes, I read. Maybe that's why I'm not posting like a crazed raccoon this game?
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On September 09 2012 12:15 Hapahauli wrote:
Quite frankly, I'm just pissed the fuck off that people are lurking, and Shady's going as far as to freking flaunt it.
So why target one lurker over any others? You still haven't answered the question: Why Shiaopi over everyone else?
Town already wasted a vig shot on Ottox. Why should town use another one without carefully considering the consequences first?
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On September 09 2012 12:17 Hapahauli wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2012 12:14 Shady Sands wrote:On September 09 2012 12:02 DarthPunk wrote:On September 09 2012 11:50 Shady Sands wrote:On September 09 2012 11:47 Hapahauli wrote:On September 09 2012 11:42 Shady Sands wrote:On September 09 2012 11:17 Hapahauli wrote:I retract my vigi-shot call on Rewok. He mentions the "lynch for blood" stuff earlier in his filter, and I'm willing to chalk it up to bad town. His giant wall-o-text posts giving everyone null-reads actually reads town to me - seems like a genuine attempt to contribute, despite being useless. However, I do think we should look into vigi-shotting ShiaoPi. Shiao is hardcore lurking in comparison to his other games as VT. Absolutely no content in Shaio's filter, and there are a couple of posts that fingerpoint like mad:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=361826¤tpage=47#929
Shaio originally wasn't posting because of "internet concerns." I believed Shiao at the time, but now it's becoming a habit. Why are you calling for a vig shot on Shiao for lurking and no call for a vig shot on me for lurking? I'm fingerpointing too. Do you think you're a better vig shot than Shaio? Do tell. I asked you first, Hapa. Please answer Yeah Hapa. Stop answering questions with questions. You have been extremely selective with your scum reads this game. I would also like to know why shaio over shady. Also how could you see Ottox as not scummy and BKE with a plausible watcher claim guaranteed scum. I am going to take a close look at your filter and XXI. Something is off about you. I agree. Hapa's usually a pretty good scumhunter. [b] His posts on Ottox in particular are just strange; almost inviting a vigi hit on Ottox but backing away enough to give himself plausible deniability. Town Hapa (in Newbie Mini XXIII) didn't play like this. You're full of it. Admittedly I thought Ottox was suspicious for a little while, but quickly turned around and [b]hard defended him when I started to think straight. Your bolded comment makes me think you didn't read the damn thread.
Or you turned around and hard defended him once the wagon got rolling and was nearly unstoppable. Your motivations here could be spun any which way but the truth remains that town Hapa didn't play this way in XXIII.
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On September 09 2012 12:31 Hapahauli wrote:
He's the only one I don't have some form of a bad-town read on.
As for why over you - you actually have a filter. Not reading is also consistent with your town meta.
Why? What has he posted that shows a scum read as opposed to bad-town?
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On September 09 2012 12:49 Hapahauli wrote:
And as far as I'm concerned Shady, you've posted jack-shit in terms of your reads.
Put-up or shut-up.
Right, because nearly starting a counter-wagon to the BKE mislynch on grush57 does not qualify as a read. And in case you're wondering, right you and him are my top scumreads.
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On September 09 2012 12:43 Maverick32x wrote:
Well- with BKE's flip, I think we need to look at people who weren't involved in any discussion and voted anyways, or people who are lurking.... Lurking seems to be really popular in this game?
I'm thinking that we need to start putting pressure on the lurkers to try to stir something up there. I will start to look through some filters to get a better idea of who these people would be, but I figure that may be a good start.
Why not look at the people who led the charge on the BKE lynch?
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On September 09 2012 12:59 Hapahauli wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2012 12:53 Shady Sands wrote:On September 09 2012 12:49 Hapahauli wrote:
And as far as I'm concerned Shady, you've posted jack-shit in terms of your reads.
Put-up or shut-up. Right, because nearly starting a counter-wagon to the BKE mislynch on grush57 does not qualify as a read. And in case you're wondering, right you and him are my top scumreads. You made a case on GRush - if you think that's an actual read, you either haven't seen GRush play or you're smoking something that I want real bad right now.
Cases and reads are equivalent. If you think they're different, then, you, sir, are the drug addict.
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On September 09 2012 13:17 Hapahauli wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2012 13:15 Shady Sands wrote:On September 09 2012 12:59 Hapahauli wrote:On September 09 2012 12:53 Shady Sands wrote:On September 09 2012 12:49 Hapahauli wrote:
And as far as I'm concerned Shady, you've posted jack-shit in terms of your reads.
Put-up or shut-up. Right, because nearly starting a counter-wagon to the BKE mislynch on grush57 does not qualify as a read. And in case you're wondering, right you and him are my top scumreads. You made a case on GRush - if you think that's an actual read, you either haven't seen GRush play or you're smoking something that I want real bad right now. Cases and reads are equivalent. If you think they're different, then, you, sir, are the drug addict. So you made a read on Grush. You started a counter-wagon against someone who is traditionally the easiest mislynch in the game - someone who is going to behave just like that regardless of alignment. Yay for reads that matter! Still waiting for an answer to this btw: Show nested quote +On September 09 2012 12:52 Hapahauli wrote:On September 09 2012 12:14 Shady Sands wrote:On September 09 2012 12:02 DarthPunk wrote:On September 09 2012 11:50 Shady Sands wrote:On September 09 2012 11:47 Hapahauli wrote:On September 09 2012 11:42 Shady Sands wrote:On September 09 2012 11:17 Hapahauli wrote:I retract my vigi-shot call on Rewok. He mentions the "lynch for blood" stuff earlier in his filter, and I'm willing to chalk it up to bad town. His giant wall-o-text posts giving everyone null-reads actually reads town to me - seems like a genuine attempt to contribute, despite being useless. However, I do think we should look into vigi-shotting ShiaoPi. Shiao is hardcore lurking in comparison to his other games as VT. Absolutely no content in Shaio's filter, and there are a couple of posts that fingerpoint like mad:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=361826¤tpage=47#929
Shaio originally wasn't posting because of "internet concerns." I believed Shiao at the time, but now it's becoming a habit. Why are you calling for a vig shot on Shiao for lurking and no call for a vig shot on me for lurking? I'm fingerpointing too. Do you think you're a better vig shot than Shaio? Do tell. I asked you first, Hapa. Please answer Yeah Hapa. Stop answering questions with questions. You have been extremely selective with your scum reads this game. I would also like to know why shaio over shady. Also how could you see Ottox as not scummy and BKE with a plausible watcher claim guaranteed scum. I am going to take a close look at your filter and XXI. Something is off about you. I agree. [b]Hapa's usually a pretty good scumhunter. His posts on Ottox in particular are just strange; almost inviting a vigi hit on Ottox but backing away enough to give himself plausible deniability. Town Hapa ([b]in Newbie Mini XXIII) didn't play like this. Oh haha I missed this - weren't you ranting for pages about me cheating in that game and getting lucky? Sounds like someone twisting meta to their own advantage.
What does grush's prior meta have to do with the fact that he's behaving anti-town? If a player traditionally trolls all the time like YH or Chez, do we just give them a free pass?
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Anyhow, here's why I think Hapa needs to get whacked:
D1, he soft-defends Mattchew until Sloosh gives him an easy out... then immediately tries to divert to Miltonkram.
Hard pushes Ottox, then goes back and soft-defends him once the entire town is on the wagon.
But when a lynch is on the line, pushes on BKE wagon regardless of what other people say. Why? He says BKE is scum because BKE went from a hard push on Ottox to a soft defense of Ottox. Pot. Kettle. Black. This + scumwagon on BKE was enough to get town to vote him.
Finally, Hapa is usually an excellent town player. I have no idea why scum is letting him live this long, nor why he hasn't contributed better original reads than the ones he has.
##Vote Hapahauli
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EPT
