EPTWhy is there doubt?
TL Mafia LVII - Page 2
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Z-BosoN
Brazil2590 Posts
Why is there doubt? | ||
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Z-BosoN
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Since it is day 1 and we only have so much information, we essentially have to lynch him anyway (even if we were nearly certain he is an assassin. At this time, I'll be throwing my vote his way. | ||
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Z-BosoN
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On September 05 2012 12:59 BroodKingEXE wrote: That was guy number 2 I missed him on my reread of the filters. The end of his post is scummy imo sounds like he is trying to avoid modkill as opposed to helping the town. Interested in why he thinks Matt is assasin and still votes for him. Yep, that's the main problem I would have with him. Also, from your filter, you were pretty focused on Toad. Do you still find him suspicious?? | ||
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Z-BosoN
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Z-BosoN
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On September 06 2012 01:18 Toadesstern wrote: well 24 out of 25 people agree that Matt needs to die. If that 1 guy telling us Matt is not mafia is right that looks awfully like someone having information he shouldn't have or how in the world is the guy supposed to come to the conclusion that Matt's got to be "not mafia" if everyone else agrees he is.
I disagree, this is mostly WIFOM. If matt flips mafia, he will look suspicious because of scum motivation. If he flips townie, then he can equally be a townie who actually thought that matt's claim made sense, a townie who thought that matt was trolling and thought you were a better target, a townie who just wants to feel special by disagreeing with everybody else, a scum trying to gain town cred, and whatever else I can't come up with. I don't agree with your "he needs to die 100%". On my point of view, if matt flips scum, he becomes more suspicious, because there is scum motivation in trying to defend a buddy. If matt flips town, Ox will still be as suspicious as he is right now. | ||
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Z-BosoN
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Just because he is up on my suspicion bar does not mean that he is scum. He could very well be a bad townie. If he is, the only motivation he has for defending matt and attacking toad is that he actually thinks that toad is more suspicious than matt, and if so, he's doing a shitty job at explaining himself. Also, him being obnoxious doesn't contribute to his defense. | ||
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Z-BosoN
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Can we just ignore ox?? It's pointless arguing with him. | ||
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Z-BosoN
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I disagree with your disagreeing. HE NEEDS TO DIE 100%. You sure quickly forgot him when you were making your little list... | ||
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Z-BosoN
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Ottoxlol shortly realized how bad an idea it was No he didn't... he still thinks Toad is scum and still insists that matt is not. | ||
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Z-BosoN
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On September 06 2012 07:20 Bill Murray wrote: mattchew is on the top of my list to die. you're confused. No you That quote was about oxtrot. If you don't remember, or if you misinterpreted it, please read again. | ||
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Z-BosoN
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On September 06 2012 07:29 BlackMamba24 wrote: ooh and if BC is scum so is Z-BoSoN imo Wasn't gonna bother, but please, enlighten me. Is this just gut feeling or do you have any specific reasons? Anyways, regarding him, why exactly did he absolutely know that NN's aren't self-aware? This might have been answered or is obvious but I can't find anything. For now, my vote goes to Oxtrott. | ||
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Z-BosoN
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On September 06 2012 07:40 Toadesstern wrote: Bam. Watcher on people like BC and me please. Mafia will want to hit that. Why on earth do you think mafia would want to hit you? | ||
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Z-BosoN
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First of all, you post this: On September 04 2012 23:52 Maverick32x wrote: I voted for Matt due to the lying- but I would be curious to hear if he has a defense of some kind?? On September 05 2012 00:41 Maverick32x wrote: Well, I must of skimmed past the FoS on me from Bill Murray, so I'll weigh in a bit. The reason I was hesitant to jump on Matt was because 'bad play' doesn't equal Scum play. And our goal is to hunt Scum, not hunt bad players. That being said, lying goes a bit beyond 'bad' and starts to seem more scummy. @Broodking- I re-read your post like 10 times and I have no idea what point you're trying to make... These seem like soft-defending attempts on your scum buddy. You are on the same train as Graven, you figured out it wasn't a good idea to defend him and backed off. But these arguments are weak, if I want to judge someone strictly on defending a now-confirmed scum, then I wouldn't bother with anyone else other than Ox. However: You DON'T SCUMHUNT! This is a huge red flag to me.... how is that ONLY something that scum does? I agree with everything else you've written.. but using those sort of generalizations really makes me suspicious. So now you say that you have a huge red flag and it really makes you suspicious. Yet, you don't make a single post later on, to anyone else. You just seemingly forget all about s&b and the huge red flag you have on him. If you were townie I'm sure you would be more focused into attacking someone you have a huge red flag on than on defending yourself. You show more interest in defending yourself than in making cases and scumhunting. And thus, your first non-casual FOS: ##FOS Maverick | ||
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Z-BosoN
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On September 06 2012 08:21 BlackMamba24 wrote: why does everyone suddenly think ottoxlol is town Discussion regarding him is pointless by now. Does not mean we think he's town. Right now I think the town focus should be to seek a stronger lynch candidate and not let discussion die. | ||
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Z-BosoN
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On September 06 2012 08:26 BlackMamba24 wrote: ottoxlol is the strongest lynch candidate Yup. And thus we shouldn't try to find a stronger one? | ||
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Z-BosoN
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On September 06 2012 08:45 BlackMamba24 wrote: Vig ottoxlol I provided more reasoning than anybody regarding Mattchew and even reposted once or twice so he could see it but he continues to ignore all argument/reasoning and repeat the same lie that nobody ever explained why they voted for Mattchew, no one ever explained why he is scummy besides that he lied, etc. all untrue false bullshit that can be easily demonstrated Let's say you are town adn you think town is about to mislynch. What do you do? A) Repeat the same arguments, when you get answers for your questions, ignore them and attack/insult people responding to you. Vote for someone else but never really push the case. When the person flips scum continue to act as though your arguments were brilliant somehow even though you are now objectively wrong about everything. Attack everyone voting for this player. B) Explain why you think they are innocent. Find someone you think is scum and push them as much as you can. Listen to and consider the responses to your questions about the Mattchew lynch. After the lynch, try to see where your argument went wrong and reconsider your point of view. Yeah town players can be bad. They can be assholes. But there are clear scum motivations and tells in ottox's behavior. 1) Defends only by assaulting and attacking other players 2) Avoids real argument/discussion by ignoring other peoples posts, misrepresenting them (for instance, saying I never provided reasons for my vote when I was the first to do that) and insulting others. 3) Doesn't push an alternate case with any commitment. 4) Behavior/arguments have a clear conclusion that was determined beforehand and will never change. Suggests that he has objective knowledge of something or a clear agenda. There you go. That's enough. If Ottoxlol is not hit by a vigilante tonight which he should be, he is the absolute best lynch target for tomorrow. Period. Dude, what you are describing is just how a defensive crybaby player (aka SolarSail in XXIV and in DeathNote, who even managed to get modkilled) would play. Also, the bolded part just goes way too far. I don't see where how his behavior is suggestive of that at all. I've only played one game, and read a few. Defensive crybaby disruptive play does not serve as a main argument, it is mostly a side dish to go along with the main one. My stance on him is that he just says things without thinking. His defense on Matt could very well be this, and his pride won't let him back down, just as he doesn't back down from clearly flawed claims. This, along with his disruptive anti-town play is what gives me the reason for him to be the top lynch. Unlike you, however, I am not that comfortable on my vote on him. Please just go ahead and read SolarSail on XXIV and DeathNote and see why I'm hesitant to just bluntly say that OMG HE MUST DIE like you and some of you are saying. Also, this post from you is ridiculous: we should lynch doyouhas too, this is a post that was definitely posted in the scum qt a few times my intuition is flaring up like crazy over this You want to win this with intuition? How about logic. How about you tell me exactly what is scummy about this post. From my perspective, I think his points are lacking compared to some already made on other people, but he does bring something that is valid as an argument. Hopeless wasn't included in the list of "reluctant voters", and now, he might very well be. I don't think it is enough to convict someone as scum, but it is NOT more food for your suspicions on him, unless, of course, you grace us with an explanation. You want people to trust your "intuition"? And please stop begging vigi to kill someone. If you are mafia, you could be just as easily using the easiness of which it is to target Ox to make a vigi waste a shot on a townie. | ||
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Z-BosoN
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On September 06 2012 08:42 Toadesstern wrote: no I did not backtrack. I said he's either mafia or he's town and in both cases he needs to die given the situation. So you are saying that even if he is somehow confirmed town, he still needs to die? | ||
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Z-BosoN
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Z-BosoN
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On September 06 2012 09:46 BloodyC0bbler wrote: Boson, Ottoxlol still has to respond to me how he came up with 5 red as the team size. Its not in the OP and no mod has come into thread clarifying thus it is unlikely they have decided how to respond to it yet. Basically, as you guys all know how I caught mattchew day 1? Well until a mod comes in and clears him by saying the mafia # is something not 5 hes mafia. As of right now, the only people who have the actual mafia size # are mafia thus I believe it was an unintentional slip by him, but one that is unsurprising giving the heat he was taking. Holy shit, I hadn't seen this. Ok, I'm absolutely set on voting against him, should he not die. Nice catch. | ||
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Z-BosoN
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On September 06 2012 09:58 DoctorHelvetica wrote: BC says the same thing i'm saying about how he lied about my arguments/activity level but I guess when he says it people agree whatever @boson my main case against ottox is him not pushing his reads and completely ignoring peoples arguments/logic while pushing his defense which is exactly what suggests that he has a preconceived agenda no one is gonna listen to me in this game so ill keep doing what i'vebeen doing which is make a point, wait for BC to repeat it so that everyone suddenly agrees lol Wtf?? He introduced a totally different argument!! Are you even reading right now? I got that from your post and I said those were supporting arguments but not enough to say omfg let's lynch him, due to my experience with SolarSail. However, the scumslip pointed out by BC is subtle and very VERY likely for a scum under pressure to make. | ||
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