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On September 04 2012 07:54 Toadesstern wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2012 07:53 grush57 wrote:On September 04 2012 07:48 Toadesstern wrote:
The meaning was that I think he's a town blue and I therefore want to kill him as quickly as possible.
Or perhaps I don't like people pointing out useless stuff that has nothing to do with the game. I guess it has but what are we supposed to talk about the 2KP change or the vig addition he mentioned. Well, there is nothing else to talk about then until a scumslip or something. Talking about rules and such is how you figure out people stances and opinions which leads to finding out who is playing like town and who is playing like scum. you say that and yet we're talking about why I think sloOsh deservers a vote and wether or not you agree with me. Funny, isn't it?
You still haven't answered my question, (when you get back). How could you think sloOsh was scum based on a post that tried to draw discussion? Imo a post like that doesn't prove they are scum, it could just as easily be a townie trying to start a discussion.
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Actually, Mattchew why should they claim now? Can't they just wait till its pointed out?
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EBWOP: As in a W/T claims their role.
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Same difference we're going to doubt your claim if you get caught visiting someone who died :/
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EBWOP:
On September 04 2012 12:17 ShiaoPi wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2012 12:13 BroodKingEXE wrote:
Actually, Mattchew why should they claim now? Can't they just wait till its pointed out? no...that kind of defeats the purpose
Same difference we're going to doubt your claim if you get caught visiting someone who died :/[/QUOTE]
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Toad:
On September 04 2012 07:54 Toadesstern wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2012 07:53 grush57 wrote:On September 04 2012 07:48 Toadesstern wrote:
The meaning was that I think he's a town blue and I therefore want to kill him as quickly as possible.
Or perhaps I don't like people pointing out useless stuff that has nothing to do with the game. I guess it has but what are we supposed to talk about the 2KP change or the vig addition he mentioned. Well, there is nothing else to talk about then until a scumslip or something. Talking about rules and such is how you figure out people stances and opinions which leads to finding out who is playing like town and who is playing like scum. you say that and yet we're talking about why I think sloOsh deservers a vote and wether or not you agree with me. Funny, isn't it?
He comes out of the box suspecting sloosh for posting a discussion starter. This is terrible reasoning, because firstly this is how 50% of all games start and second scum can use this as a cover, but he doesn't provide any reasoning from thinking he is for sure scum.
On September 04 2012 08:01 slOosh wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2012 07:58 Toadesstern wrote:On September 04 2012 07:56 slOosh wrote:
Hapa, what is your idea of a town circle and how does it help us find / lynch / kill scum?
Toad - How is that useless stuff that has nothing to do with the game? The setup changed and maybe people haven't read the updates. I've asked you once and I'll do it again, what else do you want to talk about? I don't know what you want to talk about. I'm talking about your useless post being useless. Well BlackMamba's recent post just shows that people can miss information. My post has already proven itself useful, and your opening post which tries to discredit mine has not. Do you think I'm scum by my first post?
On September 04 2012 08:03 Toadesstern wrote:
because of that one post? Of course not.
Wait a minute, you voted for him and from the way you posted to Grush you thought he was scum. You did think he was scum from that first vote.
On September 04 2012 08:20 Toadesstern wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2012 08:14 slOosh wrote:On September 04 2012 08:01 slOosh wrote:On September 04 2012 07:58 Toadesstern wrote:On September 04 2012 07:56 slOosh wrote:
Hapa, what is your idea of a town circle and how does it help us find / lynch / kill scum?
Toad - How is that useless stuff that has nothing to do with the game? The setup changed and maybe people haven't read the updates. I've asked you once and I'll do it again, what else do you want to talk about? I don't know what you want to talk about. I'm talking about your useless post being useless. Well BlackMamba's recent post just shows that people can miss information. My post has already proven itself useful, and your opening post which tries to discredit mine has not. Do you think I'm scum by my first post? On September 04 2012 08:03 Toadesstern wrote:
because of that one post? Of course not. Well your sentiment seems to be that you do indeed think I'm scum. Using my posts written prior to your retort (quoted above), can you show how you came to this conclusion? I think your post resembles someone trying to pretend to add something to the discussion while really only pointing out stuff that everyone else should know about. Like doing votecounts inbetween to "help" people. Yes it can actually help people but you can just help people by doing normal stuff. Obviously I'm not thinking you're mafia yet. I'm just pointing out that your post was bad without acknowledging that 50% of the posts done within the first 12hours or so are incredible bad to provoke reactions and that's what happened. Here we are, getting some decent information about how people think about each other and why they post something rather than talking about how the vig-change might influence the game, which is an incredible easy topic to cover for mafia.
This post is very passive to me, if he really was trying to obtain a response from sloosh, by now he should've had more than enough information to say town or mafia (or even come out and say null). What he has drawn from this is that he is "not thinking you're mafia yet", a stance that is pretty misleading. The last part makes something out of nothing tons of games start with some sort of non-alignment indicative conversation, does it really matter that sloosh's way was a slower way to reaching the same result?
On September 04 2012 09:36 Toadesstern wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2012 09:32 Hapahauli wrote:On September 04 2012 09:26 Mattchew wrote:On September 04 2012 09:22 Hapahauli wrote:
Yeah I know what the role does, so what about it? I'll ask a question if I don't understand something. there is no information given to the role, it is a VT that (randomly) visits people. If a tracker or watcher see me on their check it could lead to a stupid mislynch Ah thanks for clearing it up. I'm just a bit wary of D1 claims in general after having seen SnB's "self-aware miller" claim in DeathNote Mini Mafia, justified or not. On September 04 2012 09:22 Toadesstern wrote:On September 04 2012 09:17 Mattchew wrote:On September 04 2012 09:16 Hapahauli wrote:On September 04 2012 09:12 Mattchew wrote:
I am a nosy neighbor. Anyone else with this role should insta-claim as well. Hold up. Why would we want people with information roles to claim? ##vote hapahauli need an honest answer. What do you consider worse: a) People not thinking while posting / reading b) People defending other people 1 hour into the game when they have no reason to do such a thing and should be happy to see as much posts from the person in question defending himself rather than stopping the discussion defending him. Howabout c) People who pick fights with people who are trying to start conversation (slOosh) for the sake of picking fights? well sloOshs post has done nothing so far. My post was the reason we're having this discussion instead of talk about vigs or the 2KP change, which is, as already pointed out, an incredible easy topic for mafia to cover and blend in while people who are talking about reads, even if they're minor, have to stand their ground at least somewhat. Yes I totally see how that got to be malicious Show nested quote +On September 04 2012 09:35 BroodKingEXE wrote:
@Toad Im still confused about the vote on slOosh. You didn't agree with him for starting a useless discussion and that's grounds for keeping your vote on him? There never was a vote on him to begin with lol
The bolded part seems really out of place for a townie. It seems like a scum trying to buy cred for his actions. HIs reply to me avoids the question completely and lies about his intent before. Toad is scum. ##Vote: Toadstern
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@Rewok: I know you're trying to be helpful, but I count 10 null votes (I assume are scummy). You need to take a stance on a couple, and FYI town lists are bad for town.
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About Mattchew (who I think is town):
Here's my breakdown of the situation : Matt's roleclaimed and given two reasons he claimed to avoid mislynch and/or draw a mafia shot. At first glance the roleclaim seemed like a great idea, but as I thought about it there were just too many holes. My initial thought was that it was a good idea and that could have been Matt's (based on the reasoning too). Another problem I find with lynching him is that what he has done (roleclaim) isn't verifiable until he is lynched. Right now its a coinflip and I haven't seen anything else that suggests he is scum. Fakeclaims aren't good basis for a lynch, they're not even able to be confirmed until the lynch, so I cant vote for him unless his posting sounds scummy.
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Unvote
##Vote: Mattchew
Wow.
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On September 04 2012 22:19 Toadesstern wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2012 13:42 BroodKingEXE wrote:Toad: On September 04 2012 07:54 Toadesstern wrote:On September 04 2012 07:53 grush57 wrote:On September 04 2012 07:48 Toadesstern wrote:
The meaning was that I think he's a town blue and I therefore want to kill him as quickly as possible.
Or perhaps I don't like people pointing out useless stuff that has nothing to do with the game. I guess it has but what are we supposed to talk about the 2KP change or the vig addition he mentioned. Well, there is nothing else to talk about then until a scumslip or something. Talking about rules and such is how you figure out people stances and opinions which leads to finding out who is playing like town and who is playing like scum. you say that and yet we're talking about why I think sloOsh deservers a vote and wether or not you agree with me. Funny, isn't it? 1) He comes out of the box suspecting sloosh for posting a discussion starter. This is terrible reasoning, because firstly this is how 50% of all games start and second scum can use this as a cover, but he doesn't provide any reasoning from thinking he is for sure scum. On September 04 2012 08:01 slOosh wrote:On September 04 2012 07:58 Toadesstern wrote:On September 04 2012 07:56 slOosh wrote:
Hapa, what is your idea of a town circle and how does it help us find / lynch / kill scum?
Toad - How is that useless stuff that has nothing to do with the game? The setup changed and maybe people haven't read the updates. I've asked you once and I'll do it again, what else do you want to talk about? I don't know what you want to talk about. I'm talking about your useless post being useless. Well BlackMamba's recent post just shows that people can miss information. My post has already proven itself useful, and your opening post which tries to discredit mine has not. Do you think I'm scum by my first post? On September 04 2012 08:03 Toadesstern wrote:
because of that one post? Of course not. 2) Wait a minute, you voted for him and from the way you posted to Grush you thought he was scum. You did think he was scum from that first vote. On September 04 2012 08:20 Toadesstern wrote:On September 04 2012 08:14 slOosh wrote:On September 04 2012 08:01 slOosh wrote:On September 04 2012 07:58 Toadesstern wrote:On September 04 2012 07:56 slOosh wrote:
Hapa, what is your idea of a town circle and how does it help us find / lynch / kill scum?
Toad - How is that useless stuff that has nothing to do with the game? The setup changed and maybe people haven't read the updates. I've asked you once and I'll do it again, what else do you want to talk about? I don't know what you want to talk about. I'm talking about your useless post being useless. Well BlackMamba's recent post just shows that people can miss information. My post has already proven itself useful, and your opening post which tries to discredit mine has not. Do you think I'm scum by my first post? On September 04 2012 08:03 Toadesstern wrote:
because of that one post? Of course not. Well your sentiment seems to be that you do indeed think I'm scum. Using my posts written prior to your retort (quoted above), can you show how you came to this conclusion? I think your post resembles someone trying to pretend to add something to the discussion while really only pointing out stuff that everyone else should know about. Like doing votecounts inbetween to "help" people. Yes it can actually help people but you can just help people by doing normal stuff. Obviously I'm not thinking you're mafia yet. I'm just pointing out that your post was bad without acknowledging that 50% of the posts done within the first 12hours or so are incredible bad to provoke reactions and that's what happened. Here we are, getting some decent information about how people think about each other and why they post something rather than talking about how the vig-change might influence the game, which is an incredible easy topic to cover for mafia. 3) This post is very passive to me, if he really was trying to obtain a response from sloosh, by now he should've had more than enough information to say town or mafia (or even come out and say null). What he has drawn from this is that he is "not thinking you're mafia yet", a stance that is pretty misleading. The last part makes something out of nothing tons of games start with some sort of non-alignment indicative conversation, does it really matter that sloosh's way was a slower way to reaching the same result? On September 04 2012 09:36 Toadesstern wrote:On September 04 2012 09:32 Hapahauli wrote:On September 04 2012 09:26 Mattchew wrote:On September 04 2012 09:22 Hapahauli wrote:
Yeah I know what the role does, so what about it? I'll ask a question if I don't understand something. there is no information given to the role, it is a VT that (randomly) visits people. If a tracker or watcher see me on their check it could lead to a stupid mislynch Ah thanks for clearing it up. I'm just a bit wary of D1 claims in general after having seen SnB's "self-aware miller" claim in DeathNote Mini Mafia, justified or not. On September 04 2012 09:22 Toadesstern wrote:On September 04 2012 09:17 Mattchew wrote:On September 04 2012 09:16 Hapahauli wrote:On September 04 2012 09:12 Mattchew wrote:
I am a nosy neighbor. Anyone else with this role should insta-claim as well. Hold up. Why would we want people with information roles to claim? ##vote hapahauli need an honest answer. What do you consider worse: a) People not thinking while posting / reading b) People defending other people 1 hour into the game when they have no reason to do such a thing and should be happy to see as much posts from the person in question defending himself rather than stopping the discussion defending him. Howabout c) People who pick fights with people who are trying to start conversation (slOosh) for the sake of picking fights? well sloOshs post has done nothing so far. My post was the reason we're having this discussion instead of talk about vigs or the 2KP change, which is, as already pointed out, an incredible easy topic for mafia to cover and blend in while people who are talking about reads, even if they're minor, have to stand their ground at least somewhat. Yes I totally see how that got to be malicious On September 04 2012 09:35 BroodKingEXE wrote:
@Toad Im still confused about the vote on slOosh. You didn't agree with him for starting a useless discussion and that's grounds for keeping your vote on him? There never was a vote on him to begin with lol 4) The bolded part seems really out of place for a townie. It seems like a scum trying to buy cred for his actions. HIs reply to me avoids the question completely and lies about his intent before. Toad is scum. ##Vote: Toadstern 1) As mentioned. I never did. I picked him because he did a terrible post but frankly 50% of all the d1 posts are terrible. Clearly I can't say that to begin with though or I'd have to check out the 101 of pressuring again. 2) No I never thought he was scum based on that post as I already pointed out. I made it look like it to see what's going to happen. Again, it's somewhat like pressure although it's technically not the same. If I tell him "I think your post is stupid but as 50% of the d1 posts are usually stupid it's probably a null" he wouldn't have answered me at all or at least not in a fashion that would have provided any information. Neither would the rest of the thread have started talking about it. 3) More than enough information? It was 3 hours into the game and you keep treating it like I was only trying to get information on sloOsh. Yeah he was the main involved guy but the other people reacting to it (like you still not understanding what actually happened) is equally interessting. Not to mention that I obviously don't talk about my complete reads to openly unless I'm certain the guy in question is a mafia. What I pointed out is a fraction of a read. On his own not worth a damn but it's a piece worth discussing and therefore worth posting although the read isn't anywhere near "completed". If there is such a thing as a completed read. 4) The bolded part was a joke as he said the very same thing himself and I got myself a note in my sheet as well about it saying: Show nested quote +clicky! That's kind of odd. He shouldn't say that if he's a townie. I don't need people to tell me their posts are useful. If your post is useful people are going to figure that out themselves. So it really looks like it he wants to tell everyone how helpful he is or he's honestly pissed. I guess it's a null right now, did the same in L when people finally lynched Sandro and rubbed it into their faces because I'm quite prideful myself. Could be both a prideful townie who's pissed that I'm calling his post bullshit or a mafia who wants to tell people how awesome he is to look better So as I had it down as a null I figured setting the score back to normal by doing the exact same thing with swapped names might work :p
Thing is a reaction is usually only one post. He responded so Im gonna assume you got something from it. You mention others that had interesting reactions, but you haven't drawn any reads from them as well. You can understand my fustration though right? Right now I see you as a player that's asking questions but not paying attention to the answers. Scummy in my book.
Just to make it clear : What have you drawn for the sloOsh exchange, have others reactions seemed scummy to you? (if nothing say nothing)
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On September 04 2012 23:42 Ottoxlol wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2012 23:29 austinmcc wrote:On September 04 2012 22:55 Ottoxlol wrote:
Why so many people jump to vote Matt?
Whatever is his alignment he fucked up. Does this makes him scum?
Matt thought Noisys are aware of themselves. He has some kind of role. This is all we know.
If he's blue he could have done it to protect himself from scum.
If a scum would fakeclaim I think he would discuss it with his team first and do you all think every scum missed this thing? I highly doubt it. If anything Matt is a blue or assa.
This just provides an easy wagon to jump onto and removes d1 discussion as a whole, no town benefit from that.
Just because he did not play well it doesnt mean he's scum. What exactly would Matt be protecting himself from? Scum has no trackers or watchers. They have 0 way to know if anyone has visited anyone, so there's no reason for Matt to give himself an innocent explanation for visiting people if he's blue. Whereas it looks like you could read the nosy neighbor description as self-aware or not, you can't read the roles and think that you needed to claim nosy neighbor to confuse scum. Moreover, although there's been a lot of Mattchew discussion even after palmar's answer, there's also been a lot of discussion of other players and how they interacted with his claim. In no way has all D1 discussion been removed. My bad, I missed that scum has no way of tracking. FML Although he thought that millers are selfaware. He claimed and asked for others to claim, he can be a tracker, track everyone who claims. + Show Spoiler +On September 04 2012 12:35 Hapahauli wrote:
@ BC
Regarding the "Nosy Neighbor" claim, I just can't see mafia doing that. If the role isn't self-aware as you suggest, aren't you just shooting yourself in the foot from a mafia perspective? Because if no one else claims, you get auto-lynched. On September 04 2012 13:08 Hapahauli wrote:
##Vote Mattchew
I generally agree with everything that sloOsh said above. As far as I'm concerned, my vote will stay on him unless another nosy neighbor comes along and role-claims. What? So Hapahauli thinks its not scum play, then sloOsh suggest that one of BC or Matt is scum (based on that BC is forcing 1-1 with Matt and he's lying so he is the scum) then immediately switches vote to Matt when votes started piling up on him.
You're not making sense, Mattchew as Tracker needs a night to clear each person. That's three nights of info wasted on finding townies. I find your whole stance on Mattchew strange if not scummy. Someone already pointed out that him as a blue doesn't make sense, and your doubt relies on a roleclaim by Matt. What about Matt's actual play makes you think he is a blue/sasin?
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On September 05 2012 09:28 Hapahauli wrote:
@ BM24
Does Ottoxlol's defense of Mattchew make him likely-mafia? While I consider his arguments insane (at best), I'd imagine that mafia are in full-bus mode on Mattchew no? I just don't see the mafia motive in going against the entire town to defend a guy who's basically confirmed scum.
Regarding MiltonKram - I think the key difference between his case and your case in DN Mini (tunneling you for that long was a horrible play on my part) is the presence of misleading evidence. In the DN Mini, your case wasn't good (D1 Caveats of course) but it wasn't misleading. MiltonKram not only tried to point out a third party, but used false evidence. I think there's a high chance he's mafia.
Now he could be a townie who made a bad play, but I find it unlikely given the content and timing of his suspicions. I also find it amusing that every time someone calls him out, he seems to fly into the thread, but is hush-hush otherwise.
Reading the thread im sensing a lot of doubt in the thread, Mafia could be going for some kind of lurker lynch. Its risky, but I count about two to three people with doubt and if Matt is scum + power role it would be worth it. Another thing is that one scum maybe hiding among the doubters to feed the fire. Going to look into that now.
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Never mind about my last post. Ottox is pretty much the only person with doubt, its just that so many people shutting him down it seems like it.
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That was guy number 2 I missed him on my reread of the filters. The end of his post is scummy imo sounds like he is trying to avoid modkill as opposed to helping the town. Interested in why he thinks Matt is assasin and still votes for him.
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On September 05 2012 13:00 Z-BosoN wrote:Show nested quote +On September 05 2012 12:59 BroodKingEXE wrote:That was guy number 2 I missed him on my reread of the filters. The end of his post is scummy imo sounds like he is trying to avoid modkill as opposed to helping the town. Interested in why he thinks Matt is assasin and still votes for him. Yep, that's the main problem I would have with him. Also, from your filter, you were pretty focused on Toad. Do you still find him suspicious??
No, his response was belivable based on posts he made after his sloosh interaction. Ottox has replaced him due to the fact that he is pushing a "Matt is an assasin/townie scheme" instead of pushing his scum read toad.
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@ Miltonkram Your case against Hapa has all but crumbled, but yet you continue to go after him for not coming up with scum reads?
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On September 05 2012 13:30 Gravan wrote:Show nested quote +On September 05 2012 13:00 Hapahauli wrote:
Why is he voting Mattchew if he's convinced he's an assassin? Hell that post doesn't really explain why he's even voting - "we essentially have to lynch him anyway" - wut? This is my fault for wording this sentence poorly. Although I am still leaning towards Matt being an assassin, he certainly looks all kinds of scummy as well. There isn't enough information at this point to lynch someone else - this lynch will, at worst, be neutral. I feel that, unless someone who has better evidence against them comes up (unlikely) we are better off to make this lynch and gain the information (Matt's flip) than sit idle. I am just asserting that I personally think he is an assassin. I'm done on the whole Matt issue now; still working on making my posts more constructive and less parrot-y. If Matt flips scum, Ottox and Toad really need to be looked at. Ottox has been making his bizarre crusade about the potential innocence of Matt, as everyone knows. To me, Toad's last few posts have seemed a little aimless and very personally aggressive with little content. He spends a considerable amount of time shutting down and pointing at Ottox (who is looking obviously scummy or very misguided) in a well written post, then shifts to personal attacks and negligent remarks. Sleep time for me now; I'll actually have some rest by tomorrow and won't be travelling.
Wut he cant be both (scum and sasin), if he's a third party its not worth a town lynch. Why dont you look at Ottox and Toad now? You seem to have an idea about them.
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On September 06 2012 03:57 Ottoxlol wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2012 03:49 Z-BosoN wrote:
@goodkarma
Just because he is up on my suspicion bar does not mean that he is scum. He could very well be a bad townie.
If he is, the only motivation he has for defending matt and attacking toad is that he actually thinks that toad is more suspicious than matt, and if so, he's doing a shitty job at explaining himself.
Also, him being obnoxious doesn't contribute to his defense. At least I am not that retarded to attack someone on the ground of their first post that was clearly a joke. I already explained my motivation two post ago. If you need some help understanding it you can ask for it nicely
You dont joke about scum reads. You're scum, because you are trying to derail a lynch and not trying to bring up another canidate. Real townie would create a case and present a new option, but scum dont want to give away to much and wont do that. They'll try to plug an easy lurker after a derail.
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My 2 cents about the Ottox thing. I played with him in Area 53 and he's as stubborn as a mule. I could see him trying to derail a lynch from a town perspective. I just don't get why as town he wont push a lynch canidate (in all seriousness his isn't doing much to push toad or hapa). That's why Im keeping a scum read on him.
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Lurker albeit but what he has posted is scummy as fuck.
On September 04 2012 18:22 Shady Sands wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2012 18:17 Palmar wrote:
Just like with any other normal miller role, nosy neighbours do not know they are nosy neighbours whoa what? Just got back into this thread. I'll read through it later (when I wake up) but for now, ##Vote Mattchew
Votes for Mattchew...
On September 05 2012 05:20 Shady Sands wrote:Show nested quote +On September 05 2012 05:12 grush57 wrote:
Well, looks like Mattchew slipped and all the noobs on his team are now scrambling.
So....
##Vote: Mattchew
Miltonkram after this lynch?(Assuming that Mattchew flips scum which he will) Why are you piling on Miltonkram? AFAIK you didn't even offer a single post on the entire Mattchew debacle and now you're trying to chainsaw defend Hapa by drawing associative scumtells?
Ravages Grush for voting for Mattchew?! As far as I can see, you put in as much input on the Mattchew debacle as him, considering you talked to him about it(clicky). At that point it didn't even matter cause he got caught with a scummy fakeclaim.
Other than that he's supported lynching lurkers and publicly announcing blue actions.
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EPT
