EPTOn August 15 2012 18:17 DarthPunk wrote:
Your posting was substantially better in XXII but perhaps that was because you were masoned and then confirmed town/heavily coached by BH.
Asking questions which is 90% of the content that you have provide thus far, does not constitute making cases or scum hunting. all it does is maybe evoke a response from others without actually making a case or forming an opinion yourself. A very safe playstyle. and right now after I have cast suspicion on your 'case making' rather than strengthen the cases you have made you ask me to comment. Trying to look like contributing without contributing. Asking others to comment rather than commenting.
The cases are weak because the cases do not exist. They were a stretch and the reasoning behind their scumminess was extremely convoluted and nonsensical. The posts you based your cases on were in my opinion obviously null tells, and then descended into WIFOM and OMGUS without adding anything further.
All further points, fluff posts, appearing to contribute whilst not contributing, you yourself are far more guilty of then they.
It is entirely possible they are scum. However the weak cases you have submitted and the accompanying fluff make you far more suspicious to me at this point.
Show nested quote +
On August 15 2012 17:59 Shady Sands wrote:
Given that XXII was my very first game of Mafia ever, it should be expected that my posting style has grown up between now and then. If you look near the end of the XXII game, you'll see me doing now what I was doing then--prodding people with questions and keeping the town's posting rhythm extremely high.
That being said, I'm curious to know what you think about the Thrawn and Solar cases. You say they're weak. Why?
On August 15 2012 17:39 DarthPunk wrote:
Hey guys I have been in the Hospital all day. I kept up with the thread somewhat from my phone.
Shady Sands
The case that shady posted was incredibly weak. The first 'read' shady got certainly wasn't there. Even when shady clarified his reasoning it was a huge stretch. The whole 'soft accusing thing was nonsense and seems to be fabricated by shady out of thin air in order to pursue an agenda (this may be mis-lynching a townie or stimulating discussion) however something felt off about the whole thing, and was certainly not the same way shady was playing in XXII.
I took a look through Shady's filter, the vast majority of posts contain one liner questions which add nothing to any cases.
After this incredibly weak initial 'case'
He does none of the 'scum hunting' that he has been speaking at length about nor adds to his case with anything but OMGUS until others board the bandwagon. In fact almost his entire filter is Fluff.
All these posts from his filter. No scum hunting which he has SAYS is the most important thing to do. Simply policy talk, OMGUS and one weak case. then after others have actually contributed to the thread:
Shady agrees with everyone who is inclined to jump on his bandwagon and congratulates them on keeping up the pressure on solar. He adds very little if anything to his already weak case yet tries to maintain momentum on this obvious bandwagon. The conclusion of his 'case' is not even a statement. It is simply a question of his motive. Something which requires little commitment and which you may easily back away from following a mislynch. What concerns me Is that he openly states that he would like everyone to focus on this. Focusing everyones attention on the mislynch of a bad townie is the perfect situation for scum.
then we have this.
Another weak case which follows the pattern established with his initial case on Solarsail. He takes a VERY EARLY post by thrawn and twists it into something that is at best a stretch. He accuses Thrawn of 'fluffing up his posts with mostly useless discussion' which shady himself is guilty of. And posts meaningless questions on why you would ask about a SK and presents them as some form of case.
This is not the Shady Sands I saw in XXII, Something feels off. and thus, a FoS is declared.
FoS## Shady Sands
Hey guys I have been in the Hospital all day. I kept up with the thread somewhat from my phone.
Shady Sands
The case that shady posted was incredibly weak. The first 'read' shady got certainly wasn't there. Even when shady clarified his reasoning it was a huge stretch. The whole 'soft accusing thing was nonsense and seems to be fabricated by shady out of thin air in order to pursue an agenda (this may be mis-lynching a townie or stimulating discussion) however something felt off about the whole thing, and was certainly not the same way shady was playing in XXII.
I took a look through Shady's filter, the vast majority of posts contain one liner questions which add nothing to any cases.
After this incredibly weak initial 'case'
On August 15 2012 10:15 Shady Sands wrote:
Stutters. Stutters said something perfectly townish which you tried to soft twist into scummy play.
Then you say:
You're basically accusing stutters without accusing him directly. Why?
On August 15 2012 10:10 Solarsail wrote:
Because I've played one game of Mafia in my life, it was on another forum and that happened. But I forgot that "Newbie" in the title means that everyone is a fucking veteran and doesn't need to be told anything.
I have no idea what a good post is, please enlighten me on how I can make completely flawless first posts with zero information.
On August 15 2012 10:01 Shady Sands wrote:
Solarsail, why post this?
Solarsail, why post this?
Imagine how scared of posting you would be if you'd signed up for your first game and rolled Mafia. Your posts would be short, infrequent, and not hold any information that disagrees with the general direction so as not to stand out.
Because I've played one game of Mafia in my life, it was on another forum and that happened. But I forgot that "Newbie" in the title means that everyone is a fucking veteran and doesn't need to be told anything.
I have no idea what a good post is, please enlighten me on how I can make completely flawless first posts with zero information.
Stutters. Stutters said something perfectly townish which you tried to soft twist into scummy play.
On August 15 2012 09:13 Stutters695 wrote:
I'm not going to quote the entire post, but I'd strongly recommend the town to read Hapahauli's post following XXIII(http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=355874¤tpage=58#1160). Was watching that game while I was waiting for this to start and based off of his scumhunting track record it contains some good advice. Since it's probable we will mislynch we need to get as much out of Day 1 as possible.
I'm not going to quote the entire post, but I'd strongly recommend the town to read Hapahauli's post following XXIII(http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=355874¤tpage=58#1160). Was watching that game while I was waiting for this to start and based off of his scumhunting track record it contains some good advice. Since it's probable we will mislynch we need to get as much out of Day 1 as possible.
Then you say:
Imagine how scared of posting you would be if you'd signed up for your first game and rolled Mafia. Your posts would be short, infrequent, and not hold any information that disagrees with the general direction so as not to stand out.
You're basically accusing stutters without accusing him directly. Why?
He does none of the 'scum hunting' that he has been speaking at length about nor adds to his case with anything but OMGUS until others board the bandwagon. In fact almost his entire filter is Fluff.
On August 15 2012 10:16 Shady Sands wrote:
It isn't normal, but it should speed up our scumhunting tremendously.
On August 15 2012 10:12 mkfuba07 wrote:
Is this normal? Just wonderin'
XXIII - goon for 0.5 then vanilla townie from then on.
On August 15 2012 10:04 Shady Sands wrote:
Mkfuba, please post your posting history from the prior games. Thanks
Mkfuba, please post your posting history from the prior games. Thanks
Is this normal? Just wonderin'
XXIII - goon for 0.5 then vanilla townie from then on.
It isn't normal, but it should speed up our scumhunting tremendously.
On August 15 2012 10:27 Shady Sands wrote:
Also, could you please link your play from the other game from the other forum? So we can see your meta?
On August 15 2012 10:20 Solarsail wrote:
Lol you think in my first serious attempt at a game I'd start implying stuff with multiple layers of meaning? I wanted to post something day one that would at least show I had read the TL guides and was making an effort to participate. Feel free to read into it like I'm a pro though. Go on.
Everyone IS DOING THE SAME THING today, which is trying NOT TO DIE AT THE FIRST MENTION OF AN INCONSISTENCY.
If you don't stop I will vote you.
On August 15 2012 10:15 Shady Sands wrote:
Stutters. Stutters said something perfectly townish which you tried to soft twist into scummy play.
Then you say:
You're basically accusing stutters without accusing him directly. Why?
On August 15 2012 10:10 Solarsail wrote:
Because I've played one game of Mafia in my life, it was on another forum and that happened. But I forgot that "Newbie" in the title means that everyone is a fucking veteran and doesn't need to be told anything.
I have no idea what a good post is, please enlighten me on how I can make completely flawless first posts with zero information.
On August 15 2012 10:01 Shady Sands wrote:
Solarsail, why post this?
Solarsail, why post this?
Imagine how scared of posting you would be if you'd signed up for your first game and rolled Mafia. Your posts would be short, infrequent, and not hold any information that disagrees with the general direction so as not to stand out.
Because I've played one game of Mafia in my life, it was on another forum and that happened. But I forgot that "Newbie" in the title means that everyone is a fucking veteran and doesn't need to be told anything.
I have no idea what a good post is, please enlighten me on how I can make completely flawless first posts with zero information.
Stutters. Stutters said something perfectly townish which you tried to soft twist into scummy play.
On August 15 2012 09:13 Stutters695 wrote:
I'm not going to quote the entire post, but I'd strongly recommend the town to read Hapahauli's post following XXIII(http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=355874¤tpage=58#1160). Was watching that game while I was waiting for this to start and based off of his scumhunting track record it contains some good advice. Since it's probable we will mislynch we need to get as much out of Day 1 as possible.
I'm not going to quote the entire post, but I'd strongly recommend the town to read Hapahauli's post following XXIII(http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=355874¤tpage=58#1160). Was watching that game while I was waiting for this to start and based off of his scumhunting track record it contains some good advice. Since it's probable we will mislynch we need to get as much out of Day 1 as possible.
Then you say:
Imagine how scared of posting you would be if you'd signed up for your first game and rolled Mafia. Your posts would be short, infrequent, and not hold any information that disagrees with the general direction so as not to stand out.
You're basically accusing stutters without accusing him directly. Why?
Lol you think in my first serious attempt at a game I'd start implying stuff with multiple layers of meaning? I wanted to post something day one that would at least show I had read the TL guides and was making an effort to participate. Feel free to read into it like I'm a pro though. Go on.
Everyone IS DOING THE SAME THING today, which is trying NOT TO DIE AT THE FIRST MENTION OF AN INCONSISTENCY.
If you don't stop I will vote you.
Also, could you please link your play from the other game from the other forum? So we can see your meta?
On August 15 2012 10:34 Shady Sands wrote:
LOL why are you voting me?
On August 15 2012 10:29 Solarsail wrote:
Wow. Guess I'm scum then.
##Vote: Shady Sands
Seriously this is not worth your amazing detective skills, case solved already, go look at someone else. Or just realise that I'm trying and shut up.
On August 15 2012 10:23 Shady Sands wrote:
Only scum focus on trying to survive. Town focuses on scumhunting. Why would you devote your first post to trying to show participation?
On August 15 2012 10:20 Solarsail wrote:
Lol you think in my first serious attempt at a game I'd start implying stuff with multiple layers of meaning? I wanted to post something day one that would at least show I had read the TL guides and was making an effort to participate. Feel free to read into it like I'm a pro though. Go on.
Everyone IS DOING THE SAME THING today, which is trying NOT TO DIE AT THE FIRST MENTION OF AN INCONSISTENCY.
If you don't stop I will vote you.
On August 15 2012 10:15 Shady Sands wrote:
Stutters. Stutters said something perfectly townish which you tried to soft twist into scummy play.
Then you say:
You're basically accusing stutters without accusing him directly. Why?
On August 15 2012 10:10 Solarsail wrote:
Because I've played one game of Mafia in my life, it was on another forum and that happened. But I forgot that "Newbie" in the title means that everyone is a fucking veteran and doesn't need to be told anything.
I have no idea what a good post is, please enlighten me on how I can make completely flawless first posts with zero information.
On August 15 2012 10:01 Shady Sands wrote:
Solarsail, why post this?
[quote]
Solarsail, why post this?
[quote]
Because I've played one game of Mafia in my life, it was on another forum and that happened. But I forgot that "Newbie" in the title means that everyone is a fucking veteran and doesn't need to be told anything.
I have no idea what a good post is, please enlighten me on how I can make completely flawless first posts with zero information.
Stutters. Stutters said something perfectly townish which you tried to soft twist into scummy play.
On August 15 2012 09:13 Stutters695 wrote:
I'm not going to quote the entire post, but I'd strongly recommend the town to read Hapahauli's post following XXIII(http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=355874¤tpage=58#1160). Was watching that game while I was waiting for this to start and based off of his scumhunting track record it contains some good advice. Since it's probable we will mislynch we need to get as much out of Day 1 as possible.
I'm not going to quote the entire post, but I'd strongly recommend the town to read Hapahauli's post following XXIII(http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=355874¤tpage=58#1160). Was watching that game while I was waiting for this to start and based off of his scumhunting track record it contains some good advice. Since it's probable we will mislynch we need to get as much out of Day 1 as possible.
Then you say:
Imagine how scared of posting you would be if you'd signed up for your first game and rolled Mafia. Your posts would be short, infrequent, and not hold any information that disagrees with the general direction so as not to stand out.
You're basically accusing stutters without accusing him directly. Why?
Lol you think in my first serious attempt at a game I'd start implying stuff with multiple layers of meaning? I wanted to post something day one that would at least show I had read the TL guides and was making an effort to participate. Feel free to read into it like I'm a pro though. Go on.
Everyone IS DOING THE SAME THING today, which is trying NOT TO DIE AT THE FIRST MENTION OF AN INCONSISTENCY.
If you don't stop I will vote you.
Only scum focus on trying to survive. Town focuses on scumhunting. Why would you devote your first post to trying to show participation?
Wow. Guess I'm scum then.
##Vote: Shady Sands
Seriously this is not worth your amazing detective skills, case solved already, go look at someone else. Or just realise that I'm trying and shut up.
LOL why are you voting me?
On August 15 2012 10:16 Shady Sands wrote:
It isn't normal, but it should speed up our scumhunting tremendously.
On August 15 2012 10:12 mkfuba07 wrote:
Is this normal? Just wonderin'
XXIII - goon for 0.5 then vanilla townie from then on.
On August 15 2012 10:04 Shady Sands wrote:
Mkfuba, please post your posting history from the prior games. Thanks
Mkfuba, please post your posting history from the prior games. Thanks
Is this normal? Just wonderin'
XXIII - goon for 0.5 then vanilla townie from then on.
It isn't normal, but it should speed up our scumhunting tremendously.
On August 15 2012 10:40 Shady Sands wrote:
FYI
These are the players that haven't posted yet:
Darth
GK
Golbat
Jhuyt
Z-BosoN
Ochrow
YourHarry
As a reminder, please link your filters and roles from prior games. Thank you.
FYI
These are the players that haven't posted yet:
Darth
GK
Golbat
Jhuyt
Z-BosoN
Ochrow
YourHarry
As a reminder, please link your filters and roles from prior games. Thank you.
On August 15 2012 10:41 Shady Sands wrote:
http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=OMGUS
On August 15 2012 10:41 thrawn2112 wrote:
Sorry for the bother, but could you describe what OMGUS means? It's one of the several expressions I see used in the mafia forums of which I have no idea what they mean.
On August 15 2012 10:35 Shady Sands wrote:
What's even more interesting that Solarsail didn't even try to defend himself from this accusation:
Instead, he answered with sarcasm and an OMGUS vote.
On August 15 2012 10:32 thrawn2112 wrote:
Most of Solarsail's posts so far have contained quite a bit of emotion which has made his points less articulate than they otherwise would have been. Solarsail, if you are in fact town then I'm sure all the other townies would greatly appreciate it if you weren't so quick to use profanities and typing in all caps, it distracts from whatever arguments are being made.
Most of Solarsail's posts so far have contained quite a bit of emotion which has made his points less articulate than they otherwise would have been. Solarsail, if you are in fact town then I'm sure all the other townies would greatly appreciate it if you weren't so quick to use profanities and typing in all caps, it distracts from whatever arguments are being made.
What's even more interesting that Solarsail didn't even try to defend himself from this accusation:
Only scum focus on trying to survive. Town focuses on scumhunting. Why would you devote your first post to trying to show participation?
Instead, he answered with sarcasm and an OMGUS vote.
Sorry for the bother, but could you describe what OMGUS means? It's one of the several expressions I see used in the mafia forums of which I have no idea what they mean.
http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=OMGUS
OMGUS stands for "Oh My God, You Suck (for voting for me)!". it is sometimes used as a shorthand to indicate that you are voting for someone primarily because they voted for you.
On August 15 2012 10:43 Shady Sands wrote:
How is quoting you not helping anyone? Why should I post about someone else? And how does your vote get me to stop quoting you?
On August 15 2012 10:36 Solarsail wrote:
To get you to stop quoting me. It's NOT HELPING ANYONE. Go post about someone else.
On August 15 2012 10:34 Shady Sands wrote:
LOL why are you voting me?
On August 15 2012 10:29 Solarsail wrote:
Wow. Guess I'm scum then.
##Vote: Shady Sands
Seriously this is not worth your amazing detective skills, case solved already, go look at someone else. Or just realise that I'm trying and shut up.
On August 15 2012 10:23 Shady Sands wrote:
Only scum focus on trying to survive. Town focuses on scumhunting. Why would you devote your first post to trying to show participation?
On August 15 2012 10:20 Solarsail wrote:
Lol you think in my first serious attempt at a game I'd start implying stuff with multiple layers of meaning? I wanted to post something day one that would at least show I had read the TL guides and was making an effort to participate. Feel free to read into it like I'm a pro though. Go on.
Everyone IS DOING THE SAME THING today, which is trying NOT TO DIE AT THE FIRST MENTION OF AN INCONSISTENCY.
If you don't stop I will vote you.
On August 15 2012 10:15 Shady Sands wrote:
[quote]
Stutters. Stutters said something perfectly townish which you tried to soft twist into scummy play.
[quote]
Then you say:
[quote]
You're basically accusing stutters without accusing him directly. Why?
[quote]
Stutters. Stutters said something perfectly townish which you tried to soft twist into scummy play.
[quote]
Then you say:
[quote]
You're basically accusing stutters without accusing him directly. Why?
Lol you think in my first serious attempt at a game I'd start implying stuff with multiple layers of meaning? I wanted to post something day one that would at least show I had read the TL guides and was making an effort to participate. Feel free to read into it like I'm a pro though. Go on.
Everyone IS DOING THE SAME THING today, which is trying NOT TO DIE AT THE FIRST MENTION OF AN INCONSISTENCY.
If you don't stop I will vote you.
Only scum focus on trying to survive. Town focuses on scumhunting. Why would you devote your first post to trying to show participation?
Wow. Guess I'm scum then.
##Vote: Shady Sands
Seriously this is not worth your amazing detective skills, case solved already, go look at someone else. Or just realise that I'm trying and shut up.
LOL why are you voting me?
To get you to stop quoting me. It's NOT HELPING ANYONE. Go post about someone else.
How is quoting you not helping anyone? Why should I post about someone else? And how does your vote get me to stop quoting you?
On August 15 2012 11:34 Shady Sands wrote:
GK, could you put up filters from XXIII and XXII?
On August 15 2012 11:33 goodkarma wrote:
Regarding lynch all lurkers:
Yeah. Got me last game as scum with that but tbh I would have been just about as active day one as town. I still don't really have day one figured out, so don't expect me to go into hyperactive mode for day one this game. In the context of last game, it was used as a last resort which imho is the only time it should be considered. Active discussion of suspects and the cases created day one are far more valuable than trying for a "lucky lynch."
And regarding the vote for Shady Sands:
If you're going to make a vote try to make at least a few "case points" behind it. Otherwise we're going to have a pretty ridiculous situation where everyone finger points each other over pretty much nothing. Look at Mordanis's (who was town) play in NMM XXII. He started the game with a WIFOM case, and lo and behold was actively accused all game. That suspicion could have been better spent elsewhere, so make your cases thorough before voting please.
Lastly:
Now would be a great time to discuss policy. The ever-popular "lurker-lynch" policy is a great point of discussion. Also, if there's an experience that comes to mind that you feel we could benefit from via a policy feel free to bring it up.
Regarding lynch all lurkers:
Yeah. Got me last game as scum with that but tbh I would have been just about as active day one as town. I still don't really have day one figured out, so don't expect me to go into hyperactive mode for day one this game. In the context of last game, it was used as a last resort which imho is the only time it should be considered. Active discussion of suspects and the cases created day one are far more valuable than trying for a "lucky lynch."
And regarding the vote for Shady Sands:
If you're going to make a vote try to make at least a few "case points" behind it. Otherwise we're going to have a pretty ridiculous situation where everyone finger points each other over pretty much nothing. Look at Mordanis's (who was town) play in NMM XXII. He started the game with a WIFOM case, and lo and behold was actively accused all game. That suspicion could have been better spent elsewhere, so make your cases thorough before voting please.
Lastly:
Now would be a great time to discuss policy. The ever-popular "lurker-lynch" policy is a great point of discussion. Also, if there's an experience that comes to mind that you feel we could benefit from via a policy feel free to bring it up
.GK, could you put up filters from XXIII and XXII?
All these posts from his filter. No scum hunting which he has SAYS is the most important thing to do. Simply policy talk, OMGUS and one weak case. then after others have actually contributed to the thread:
On August 15 2012 11:53 Shady Sands wrote:
Heading out for the night.
Great job keeping up the pressure on Solarsail.
+ Show Spoiler [Thrawn] +
In addition to questioning why Solarsail is devoting his first post to appearing as town, we should also be asking why he made this comment:
Right after Stutters made the short comment about Hapa's XXIII postscript to open the game.
+ Show Spoiler [mkfuba] +
Great job keeping the discussion on track. Other than Solarsail, any other reads at the moment?
@ Solarsail
Note that when I began the entire train of questions at Solarsail, I was never directly accusing him of being scum:
He immediately responded with hostility:
This is what I want everyone to focus on. Why would Solarsail do this?
Heading out for the night.
Great job keeping up the pressure on Solarsail.
+ Show Spoiler [Thrawn] +
On August 15 2012 11:18 thrawn2112 wrote:
Most of the discussion right now is about solarsail. I don't think there's anything wrong with this because so far his posts haven't seemed very useful but we have still yet to hear from several players. He could easily be town and just reacting to everyone immediately jumping on his case as soon as the game starts. In that case it would be easy for the mafia players to roll in later and pile more suspicion on solar and therefore away from themselves.
As far as I could see most of the drama was based on your post asking why he is devoting his first post to appearing as town rather than use it to scumhunt. I think it's worthwhile pointing out that at the time of his original posting there were only a few D1 posts so far and not much to scumhunt on. I think right now we are still in a waiting game, people that haven't spoken up yet need to!
Show nested quote +
On August 15 2012 10:35 Shady Sands wrote:
What's even more interesting that Solarsail didn't even try to defend himself from this accusation:
Instead, he answered with sarcasm and an OMGUS vote.
On August 15 2012 10:32 thrawn2112 wrote:
Most of Solarsail's posts so far have contained quite a bit of emotion which has made his points less articulate than they otherwise would have been. Solarsail, if you are in fact town then I'm sure all the other townies would greatly appreciate it if you weren't so quick to use profanities and typing in all caps, it distracts from whatever arguments are being made.
Most of Solarsail's posts so far have contained quite a bit of emotion which has made his points less articulate than they otherwise would have been. Solarsail, if you are in fact town then I'm sure all the other townies would greatly appreciate it if you weren't so quick to use profanities and typing in all caps, it distracts from whatever arguments are being made.
What's even more interesting that Solarsail didn't even try to defend himself from this accusation:
Only scum focus on trying to survive. Town focuses on scumhunting. Why would you devote your first post to trying to show participation?
Instead, he answered with sarcasm and an OMGUS vote.
Most of the discussion right now is about solarsail. I don't think there's anything wrong with this because so far his posts haven't seemed very useful but we have still yet to hear from several players. He could easily be town and just reacting to everyone immediately jumping on his case as soon as the game starts. In that case it would be easy for the mafia players to roll in later and pile more suspicion on solar and therefore away from themselves.
As far as I could see most of the drama was based on your post asking why he is devoting his first post to appearing as town rather than use it to scumhunt. I think it's worthwhile pointing out that at the time of his original posting there were only a few D1 posts so far and not much to scumhunt on. I think right now we are still in a waiting game, people that haven't spoken up yet need to!
In addition to questioning why Solarsail is devoting his first post to appearing as town, we should also be asking why he made this comment:
Imagine how scared of posting you would be if you'd signed up for your first game and rolled Mafia. Your posts would be short, infrequent, and not hold any information that disagrees with the general direction so as not to stand out.
Right after Stutters made the short comment about Hapa's XXIII postscript to open the game.
+ Show Spoiler [mkfuba] +
On August 15 2012 11:19 mkfuba07 wrote:
Dude, you're not helping your case. I didn't give anything that Shady had said any weight until you followed up his questions with overly emotional fluff and OMGUS. Your responses don't answer the questions he's raised, and provide nothing in the way of new content. While my read on you still says panicked townie, you have to cool off. Either respond to his questions seriously or make another case, or you're not helping town. Step it up.
Playing the sarcastic martyr wins you no points.
Show nested quote +
On August 15 2012 11:08 Solarsail wrote:
> Drops in from ceiling
> Why, yes, I can see some of argument A but I can also see some of argument B, aren't I so fair and reasonable good sirs
> Let me give advice to you, for I am a kind and generous spirit
................
......
..
.
.
.
On August 15 2012 11:01 mkfuba07 wrote:
Alright, I feel like Shady was overreacting too, but there needs to be a starting point for discussion. Your reactions have been completely emotionally based and by virtue of not being pro-town, appear scummy by default. Might his posts have been a bit contrived? Yes. From what I can see, he's scumhunting no matter what. Whether he actually believes that your first few posts were scummy, your follow-up posts aren't helping town in any way. You say you'll vote for someone when someone else makes a case for them based on reasoning, so start trying to do that instead of screaming at Shady.
On August 15 2012 10:55 Solarsail wrote:
O WOW IM BEING PAID ATTENTION TO ITS ALL I DREAMED OF
Let's go with the meta-meta-analysis of tiny comments without adding anything new, that's sure to help. When Shady Sands stops the 'thing' he has going I'll vote for who you're "paying attention to" because that's an objective measure appreciated by town players everywhere.
On August 15 2012 10:47 thrawn2112 wrote:
I wouldn't know if they are more or less articulate than however he may have been in previous games, but for this purpose of this game it's making his posts a little unclear. Unclear could just mean unclear OR mafia, but the end result is that I pay more attention to his posts.
On August 15 2012 10:37 Shady Sands wrote:
Quick question: If you've never played with Solarsail before, how would you know whether his points are less or more articulate than they could be?
Seconding your point on the profanities though.
On August 15 2012 10:32 thrawn2112 wrote:
Most of Solarsail's posts so far have contained quite a bit of emotion which has made his points less articulate than they otherwise would have been. Solarsail, if you are in fact town then I'm sure all the other townies would greatly appreciate it if you weren't so quick to use profanities and typing in all caps, it distracts from whatever arguments are being made.
Most of Solarsail's posts so far have contained quite a bit of emotion which has made his points less articulate than they otherwise would have been. Solarsail, if you are in fact town then I'm sure all the other townies would greatly appreciate it if you weren't so quick to use profanities and typing in all caps, it distracts from whatever arguments are being made.
Quick question: If you've never played with Solarsail before, how would you know whether his points are less or more articulate than they could be?
Seconding your point on the profanities though.
I wouldn't know if they are more or less articulate than however he may have been in previous games, but for this purpose of this game it's making his posts a little unclear. Unclear could just mean unclear OR mafia, but the end result is that I pay more attention to his posts.
O WOW IM BEING PAID ATTENTION TO ITS ALL I DREAMED OF
Let's go with the meta-meta-analysis of tiny comments without adding anything new, that's sure to help. When Shady Sands stops the 'thing' he has going I'll vote for who you're "paying attention to" because that's an objective measure appreciated by town players everywhere.
Alright, I feel like Shady was overreacting too, but there needs to be a starting point for discussion. Your reactions have been completely emotionally based and by virtue of not being pro-town, appear scummy by default. Might his posts have been a bit contrived? Yes. From what I can see, he's scumhunting no matter what. Whether he actually believes that your first few posts were scummy, your follow-up posts aren't helping town in any way. You say you'll vote for someone when someone else makes a case for them based on reasoning, so start trying to do that instead of screaming at Shady.
> Drops in from ceiling
> Why, yes, I can see some of argument A but I can also see some of argument B, aren't I so fair and reasonable good sirs
> Let me give advice to you, for I am a kind and generous spirit
................
......
..
.
.
.
Dude, you're not helping your case. I didn't give anything that Shady had said any weight until you followed up his questions with overly emotional fluff and OMGUS. Your responses don't answer the questions he's raised, and provide nothing in the way of new content. While my read on you still says panicked townie, you have to cool off. Either respond to his questions seriously or make another case, or you're not helping town. Step it up.
Playing the sarcastic martyr wins you no points.
Great job keeping the discussion on track. Other than Solarsail, any other reads at the moment?
@ Solarsail
Note that when I began the entire train of questions at Solarsail, I was never directly accusing him of being scum:
On August 15 2012 10:01 Shady Sands wrote:
Solarsail, why post this?
Solarsail, why post this?
Imagine how scared of posting you would be if you'd signed up for your first game and rolled Mafia. Your posts would be short, infrequent, and not hold any information that disagrees with the general direction so as not to stand out.
He immediately responded with hostility:
On August 15 2012 10:10 Solarsail wrote:
Because I've played one game of Mafia in my life, it was on another forum and that happened. But I forgot that "Newbie" in the title means that everyone is a fucking veteran and doesn't need to be told anything.
I have no idea what a good post is, please enlighten me on how I can make completely flawless first posts with zero information.
On August 15 2012 10:01 Shady Sands wrote:
Solarsail, why post this?
Solarsail, why post this?
Imagine how scared of posting you would be if you'd signed up for your first game and rolled Mafia. Your posts would be short, infrequent, and not hold any information that disagrees with the general direction so as not to stand out.
Because I've played one game of Mafia in my life, it was on another forum and that happened. But I forgot that "Newbie" in the title means that everyone is a fucking veteran and doesn't need to be told anything.
I have no idea what a good post is, please enlighten me on how I can make completely flawless first posts with zero information.
This is what I want everyone to focus on. Why would Solarsail do this?
Shady agrees with everyone who is inclined to jump on his bandwagon and congratulates them on keeping up the pressure on solar. He adds very little if anything to his already weak case yet tries to maintain momentum on this obvious bandwagon. The conclusion of his 'case' is not even a statement. It is simply a question of his motive. Something which requires little commitment and which you may easily back away from following a mislynch. What concerns me Is that he openly states that he would like everyone to focus on this. Focusing everyones attention on the mislynch of a bad townie is the perfect situation for scum.
then we have this.
On August 15 2012 12:07 Shady Sands wrote:
I agree here. Thrawn's first post on the SK was extremely WIFOM:
+ Show Spoiler [Thrawn on SK] +
Why is Thrawn so concerned with getting town's attention on thinking about a SK, when SK is actually a bigger threat to scum than it is to town?
His response to my question was yet more WIFOM:
+ Show Spoiler +
Note the following sentence:
Then he says he won't post about it until it becomes obvious there is an SK. Basically Thrawn is fluffing up his posts here with a mostly useless discussion. I'd like to see Thrawn commit to a case. Until then,
## FoS Thrawn2112
On August 15 2012 11:59 YourHarry wrote:
@Z-boson, posting filters is pretty easy. Why not.
@Shady Sands. You are accusing Solarsail of being hostile? You think scums are more likely to respond with hostility?
Thrawn on the other hand is busy posting fluffs and WIFOM statement like "It could be that you, as mafia, know he is town and are taking advantage of solar's emotional reactions by drawing them out even further and immediately sidetracking everyone onto solar's case."
##Vote Thrawn
@Z-boson, posting filters is pretty easy. Why not.
@Shady Sands. You are accusing Solarsail of being hostile? You think scums are more likely to respond with hostility?
Thrawn on the other hand is busy posting fluffs and WIFOM statement like "It could be that you, as mafia, know he is town and are taking advantage of solar's emotional reactions by drawing them out even further and immediately sidetracking everyone onto solar's case."
##Vote Thrawn
I agree here. Thrawn's first post on the SK was extremely WIFOM:
+ Show Spoiler [Thrawn on SK] +
On August 15 2012 09:55 thrawn2112 wrote:
Does anyone have experience playing in a game where a serial killer was a possible role? If there did end up being a serial killer, how big a role did they play and how high would you rate the importance and achieveability of sniffing them out early? In other words, would it be a worthwhile use of the town's time and investigation to try to figure out who, if anyone, is the serial killer? I can see how it would be very important to find out who is SK early on, but I also can see how it might be way more difficult than figuring out who is mafia, and thus not a good use of time. One distinction between the serial killer and the mafia is that the mafia are in communication and will be working together while the serial killer is separated from both town and mafia. Any player who is suspected to be not of town affiliation could either be mafia or SK, so while in either case they are a good target for lynching, having knowledge of their actual role would be way more valuable than just an uninformed hit on a supposed non-town player.
If there isn't an SK, then this line of discussion is a complete waste of time and we would be doing the mafia's job for them, which is why I asked if anyone has experience in games with an SK so that we all can get a better idea of what the risk/reward anaylsis should be on determining whether or not and when to focus on a potential SK.
Concerning shady sand's post, this is my first game so I have no previous history to reference.
Does anyone have experience playing in a game where a serial killer was a possible role? If there did end up being a serial killer, how big a role did they play and how high would you rate the importance and achieveability of sniffing them out early? In other words, would it be a worthwhile use of the town's time and investigation to try to figure out who, if anyone, is the serial killer? I can see how it would be very important to find out who is SK early on, but I also can see how it might be way more difficult than figuring out who is mafia, and thus not a good use of time. One distinction between the serial killer and the mafia is that the mafia are in communication and will be working together while the serial killer is separated from both town and mafia. Any player who is suspected to be not of town affiliation could either be mafia or SK, so while in either case they are a good target for lynching, having knowledge of their actual role would be way more valuable than just an uninformed hit on a supposed non-town player.
If there isn't an SK, then this line of discussion is a complete waste of time and we would be doing the mafia's job for them, which is why I asked if anyone has experience in games with an SK so that we all can get a better idea of what the risk/reward anaylsis should be on determining whether or not and when to focus on a potential SK.
Concerning shady sand's post, this is my first game so I have no previous history to reference.
Why is Thrawn so concerned with getting town's attention on thinking about a SK, when SK is actually a bigger threat to scum than it is to town?
His response to my question was yet more WIFOM:
+ Show Spoiler +
On August 15 2012 10:11 thrawn2112 wrote:
I am not really worried, but am trying to learn from other people's experiences if there is any reason to worry. I thought I was pretty clear that I was undecided on the importance of SK, and that if SK is unimportant in D1 it's a complete waste of time to worry about it. My current opinion is that it is something to worry about, but not on D1. Therefore I'm not going to continue posting about it until something happens along the lines of way too many unexplained town deaths.
Show nested quote +
On August 15 2012 09:59 Shady Sands wrote:
Why are you so worried about the SK? SK is a bigger threat to scum than to town.
On August 15 2012 09:55 thrawn2112 wrote:
Does anyone have experience playing in a game where a serial killer was a possible role? If there did end up being a serial killer, how big a role did they play and how high would you rate the importance and achieveability of sniffing them out early? In other words, would it be a worthwhile use of the town's time and investigation to try to figure out who, if anyone, is the serial killer? I can see how it would be very important to find out who is SK early on, but I also can see how it might be way more difficult than figuring out who is mafia, and thus not a good use of time. One distinction between the serial killer and the mafia is that the mafia are in communication and will be working together while the serial killer is separated from both town and mafia. Any player who is suspected to be not of town affiliation could either be mafia or SK, so while in either case they are a good target for lynching, having knowledge of their actual role would be way more valuable than just an uninformed hit on a supposed non-town player.
If there isn't an SK, then this line of discussion is a complete waste of time and we would be doing the mafia's job for them, which is why I asked if anyone has experience in games with an SK so that we all can get a better idea of what the risk/reward anaylsis should be on determining whether or not and when to focus on a potential SK.
Concerning shady sand's post, this is my first game so I have no previous history to reference.
Does anyone have experience playing in a game where a serial killer was a possible role? If there did end up being a serial killer, how big a role did they play and how high would you rate the importance and achieveability of sniffing them out early? In other words, would it be a worthwhile use of the town's time and investigation to try to figure out who, if anyone, is the serial killer? I can see how it would be very important to find out who is SK early on, but I also can see how it might be way more difficult than figuring out who is mafia, and thus not a good use of time. One distinction between the serial killer and the mafia is that the mafia are in communication and will be working together while the serial killer is separated from both town and mafia. Any player who is suspected to be not of town affiliation could either be mafia or SK, so while in either case they are a good target for lynching, having knowledge of their actual role would be way more valuable than just an uninformed hit on a supposed non-town player.
If there isn't an SK, then this line of discussion is a complete waste of time and we would be doing the mafia's job for them, which is why I asked if anyone has experience in games with an SK so that we all can get a better idea of what the risk/reward anaylsis should be on determining whether or not and when to focus on a potential SK.
Concerning shady sand's post, this is my first game so I have no previous history to reference.
Why are you so worried about the SK? SK is a bigger threat to scum than to town.
I am not really worried, but am trying to learn from other people's experiences if there is any reason to worry. I thought I was pretty clear that I was undecided on the importance of SK, and that if SK is unimportant in D1 it's a complete waste of time to worry about it. My current opinion is that it is something to worry about, but not on D1. Therefore I'm not going to continue posting about it until something happens along the lines of way too many unexplained town deaths.
Note the following sentence:
I thought I was pretty clear that I was undecided on the importance of SK, and that if SK is unimportant in D1 it's a complete waste of time to worry about it. My current opinion is that it is something to worry about, but not on D1.
Then he says he won't post about it until it becomes obvious there is an SK. Basically Thrawn is fluffing up his posts here with a mostly useless discussion. I'd like to see Thrawn commit to a case. Until then,
## FoS Thrawn2112
Another weak case which follows the pattern established with his initial case on Solarsail. He takes a VERY EARLY post by thrawn and twists it into something that is at best a stretch. He accuses Thrawn of 'fluffing up his posts with mostly useless discussion' which shady himself is guilty of. And posts meaningless questions on why you would ask about a SK and presents them as some form of case.
This is not the Shady Sands I saw in XXII, Something feels off. and thus, a FoS is declared.
FoS## Shady Sands
Given that XXII was my very first game of Mafia ever, it should be expected that my posting style has grown up between now and then. If you look near the end of the XXII game, you'll see me doing now what I was doing then--prodding people with questions and keeping the town's posting rhythm extremely high.
That being said, I'm curious to know what you think about the Thrawn and Solar cases. You say they're weak. Why?
Your posting was substantially better in XXII but perhaps that was because you were masoned and then confirmed town/heavily coached by BH.
Asking questions which is 90% of the content that you have provide thus far, does not constitute making cases or scum hunting. all it does is maybe evoke a response from others without actually making a case or forming an opinion yourself. A very safe playstyle. and right now after I have cast suspicion on your 'case making' rather than strengthen the cases you have made you ask me to comment. Trying to look like contributing without contributing. Asking others to comment rather than commenting.
The cases are weak because the cases do not exist. They were a stretch and the reasoning behind their scumminess was extremely convoluted and nonsensical. The posts you based your cases on were in my opinion obviously null tells, and then descended into WIFOM and OMGUS without adding anything further.
All further points, fluff posts, appearing to contribute whilst not contributing, you yourself are far more guilty of then they.
It is entirely possible they are scum. However the weak cases you have submitted and the accompanying fluff make you far more suspicious to me at this point.
I see basically two lines of accusation here.
1) I'm asking a ton of questions and making it look like I'm contributing without actually contributing anything.
2) My two cases on Thrawn and Solar are weak.
In response to 1): First, since it's only 12 hours into D1, there's not much material to work off of. That's why most of the posts have consisted of throwing around questions rather than 400 word case posts. Second, evoking responses, at this stage of the game, is critical. Without a solid base of accusations and counter-accusations in the first half of the day to work off of, there's no way to actually mine enough material to reliably identify and tunnel scum on the second half of the day.
In response to 2): I'm not certain how you can say your own case on me is any stronger than the cases I've put out on Thrawn and Solar. You seem to imply that since I called out Thrawn for being WIFOM/fluffy, and according to you, I've made more "fluff" posts than he has, then I'm more suspicious. But the case on Thrawn didn't rest on being WIFOM, it rested on the fact that Thrawn led off with an extremely long and odd rant on the SK; the case on Solar likewise didn't rest on that sort of accusation either--rather, it rested on the fact that he was actively being hostile to the town rather than defending himself AND his first post on what the scum was thinking was extremely suspicious.
