EPTDwarf Fortress Mini Mafia - Page 12
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HiroPro
United States2624 Posts
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36161 Posts
On August 09 2012 00:59 HiroPro wrote: marv, what game are you referring to when you say that you've seen prplhz play this way before? I've never seen town prplhz be so abrasive and disinterested. huh. you might well be right actually. I went back to look at WoF and he actually started quite actively and only later was he like "let's lynch x" without really giving reason. The two other frames of reference I had in mind are IGCOM (invite + replacement) and Liar (PM invite game) which aren't that comparable. Alternative explanation then? prplhz is totally pissed off at rolling scum in like his 3rd consecutive mini and is totally uninterested. Hmm. | ||
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sciberbia
United States1359 Posts
Mordanis I don't feel that strongly about him one way or the other. I'll look closer at him and provide more detailed thoughts if he is still up for lynching when I get home this evening. Custos Luna I'm kinda surprised marv is voting for CL when he seemed to like my case on Forumite. As far as I can tell, the bulk of marv's issue with CL is that CL didn't provide much content (until recently). Marv clearly sees this as alignment indicative, but not contributing any content isn't good town play or good scum play, so I wouldn't be comfortable voting CL on the evidence thus far. Forumite Nobody has really dissuaded me from my case on Forumite. I still think he is most likely to flip scum. I just want to point out this further, direct contradiction since my last posts: On August 08 2012 17:45 Forumite wrote: I think it went like; "Hey guys, ShiaoPi looks scum to me! Let´s pressure him!" "Nah, I don´t see it, let´s not pressure him." "Oh, okay, nevermind then." ... Even my first post accusing ShiaoPi of being scum was premature, it would have been better to take that initial read as a sign to watch ShiaoPi more closely, but at the time I wanted to create some pressure. Forumite clearly states that he wanted to pressure shiaopi. If Forumite had explained his read and asked for other players' opinions, that would have constituted a legitmate attempt at pressure. But, what Forumite did, stating that you think somebody is scum, not explaining why, and then talking about other things in the thread, is not creating pressure. Forumite's early posts don't look like at attempt to create pressure at all IMO. On August 08 2012 03:17 Forumite wrote: That´s okay, you are more likely to scumslip if you don´t think there´s any danger. Furthermore, you can see from that early Forumite quote that he was consciously trying not to make Shiaopi feel too much pressure. Am I missing something here? Because it looks like Forumite is directly contradicting his earlier stated intentions. I still have a hard time believing that Forumite is townie. | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25553 Posts
Mordanis (2): ShiaoPi, Custos Luna Forumite (1): Sciberbia Custos Luna (1): Marvellosity Mordanis is currently set to be lynched. The deadline is in ~22.5 hours at Thursday, Aug 09 3:00pm GMT (GMT+00:00). The person with the most votes at the end of the day will be lynched. | ||
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36161 Posts
On August 09 2012 01:23 sciberbia wrote: Checking in from work. Mordanis I don't feel that strongly about him one way or the other. I'll look closer at him and provide more detailed thoughts if he is still up for lynching when I get home this evening. Custos Luna I'm kinda surprised marv is voting for CL when he seemed to like my case on Forumite. As far as I can tell, the bulk of marv's issue with CL is that CL didn't provide much content (until recently). Marv clearly sees this as alignment indicative, but not contributing any content isn't good town play or good scum play, so I wouldn't be comfortable voting CL on the evidence thus far. Forumite Nobody has really dissuaded me from my case on Forumite. I still think he is most likely to flip scum. I just want to point out this further, direct contradiction since my last posts: Forumite clearly states that he wanted to pressure shiaopi. If Forumite had explained his read and asked for other players' opinions, that would have constituted a legitmate attempt at pressure. But, what Forumite did, stating that you think somebody is scum, not explaining why, and then talking about other things in the thread, is not creating pressure. Forumite's early posts don't look like at attempt to create pressure at all IMO. Furthermore, you can see from that early Forumite quote that he was consciously trying not to make Shiaopi feel too much pressure. Am I missing something here? Because it looks like Forumite is directly contradicting his earlier stated intentions. I still have a hard time believing that Forumite is townie. Thanks for repeating what I stated about the Foru pressure thing, sciby  I do like your case, and the reason I particularly want people to talk about is it because of the niggles I also talked about, I want to know how others view it.Regarding CL; it's not good scumplay or good townplay, of course. From a personal standpoint this is coming hot off the heels of Bureaucracy, where towards the end of Day 1 sandroba asked town to consolidate on gonzaw, saying basically "unless you can tell me one point gonzaw cares about town, vote for him" - gonzaw also posted excuses day 1 and gonzaw was also scum. The fact that CL has posted a few times in the last few hours but still hasn't addressed Forumite at all is another negative against his name. | ||
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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
On August 09 2012 00:50 marvellosity wrote: you misread: scib's case = Forumite, not scib AND forumite. i.e. I want people to be discussing Forumite (something you have avoided doing three times already on this page) but you were my current strongest read. Clear? Not clear at all. Why do you want people talking about one case, while you're voting for a different one? That makes so little sense that I can't wrap my head around it :o | ||
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36161 Posts
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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36161 Posts
I am unsure about aspects of Forumite which is why I particularly want it discussed. Now why don't you actually do so instead of nitpicking? | ||
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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
On August 09 2012 01:43 marvellosity wrote: my case against CL does not need to be furthered. I am unsure about aspects of Forumite which is why I particularly want it discussed. Now why don't you actually do so instead of nitpicking? I'm not nitpicking. I honestly think you're not making any sense. You don't want to get your scumread lynched, but instead want to talk about Forumite, and you try to discredit me for standing up to you about it. About Forumite: I really don't have much to add. He's said some dumb things and been stupidly wishy-washy, but I have a hard time believing scum would be so openly bad this early on day1. Not that its impossible, but I've never seen a scum be so transparent this early. And you dismissed it, but basically admitting that he was going to be sheeped by the "vets" still completely boggles me mind. | ||
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36161 Posts
On August 09 2012 01:54 Keirathi wrote: I'm not nitpicking. I honestly think you're not making any sense. You don't want to get your scumread lynched, but instead want to talk about Forumite, and you try to discredit me for standing up to you about it. About Forumite: I really don't have much to add. He's said some dumb things and been stupidly wishy-washy, but I have a hard time believing scum would be so openly bad this early on day1. Not that its impossible, but I've never seen a scum be so transparent this early. And you dismissed it, but basically admitting that he was going to be sheeped by the "vets" still completely boggles me mind. Are you on drugs? Where did I say that? Scum are openly bad all the time. The just-abandoned XXIII had YourHarry throwing votes around with no explanation and he was scum. Normal Mini Mafia had prplhz throw around votes followed by a terrible cop claim and we all didn't lynch him because we didn't believe scum could be so bad, but he was scum and he was that bad. | ||
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slOosh
3291 Posts
On August 09 2012 01:43 marvellosity wrote: my case against CL does not need to be furthered. I am unsure about aspects of Forumite which is why I particularly want it discussed. Now why don't you actually do so instead of nitpicking? Are you referring to Forumite's boldness at bringing back a potentially attention grabbing issue? On August 08 2012 20:21 Forumite wrote: Marvel, could you explain this? I had an early scumread and said so a few times, definetly not spamming the thread about it. I also said I preferred to keep the reason to myself for the moment. What was wrong about that? Why did you want me to either reveal evidence early D1 or stop with light pressure on a random townie? Because when you said the same thing to me in Movie Mafia (?), I never responded but just took it to note, thinking oh what I'm doing is being perceived as scummy better go about it a better way, and I did that as a townie. I agree it's strange but I don't see how it is an alignment indicative strange. But on that note now I find Forumite guilty of the exact reverse: the next time he mentions a scum (?) read: On August 09 2012 00:14 Forumite wrote: Clarification about my opinion of Mordanis Big posts but very few, talking about me, possible VT-claim and policy, with a lot of fluff. Overall lots of text but next to no content, which looks bad. His post about "funnily enough" asking CL feels off somehow. Mordanis needs to shape up, or at least post more. I'm anxiosly awaiting the time when CL gets back. He doesn't actually call Mordanis scum. He critiques his play in every way, but concludes with a "needs to shape up". A totally unnecessary bye for him, and moving onto waiting for CL. And he doesn't address scib's case against him but merely comments to me - either you see it as a townie pushing for your mislynch and you want that cleared up, or you think it's a scum push and you prove to everyone about it - dismissing it is a scum reaction. I think Forumite is a good D1 lynch. ##Vote: Forumite I also request that people start casting votes earlier if possible. The (for me) morning deadline is hard to be around and I want to be able to make the best decision prior. Plurality lynches are dangerous if we don't consolidate since scum votes have more sway in who they want to lynch, and I don't want my vote wasted. | ||
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36161 Posts
On August 09 2012 02:08 slOosh wrote: Are you referring to Forumite's boldness at bringing back a potentially attention grabbing issue? yeah - why would he bring it up with me again? It just goes to highlight the whole thing. What do you think? | ||
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Custos Luna
United States96 Posts
On August 09 2012 00:50 marvellosity wrote: you misread: scib's case = Forumite, not scib AND forumite. i.e. I want people to be discussing Forumite (something you have avoided doing three times already on this page) but you were my current strongest read. Clear? Ah, understood. I'm not intentionally avoiding the topic of Forumite, I just don't have much to say about it at this point. I understand the case, and it does have some merit. However, I have been in Forumite's position before as town, so I'm still trying to decide if it was blind aggression to generate discussion (and as a result he has now been forced to backpedal), or just general scum activity. I will be rereading to try and get a better idea/feel. I do wish to hear from Mord/prplhz soon though On August 09 2012 01:57 marvellosity wrote: Are you on drugs? Where did I say that? Scum are openly bad all the time. The just-abandoned XXIII had YourHarry throwing votes around with no explanation and he was scum. Normal Mini Mafia had prplhz throw around votes followed by a terrible cop claim and we all didn't lynch him because we didn't believe scum could be so bad, but he was scum and he was that bad. That's a rather ignorant blanket statement. You have clearly not been utterly destroyed by some of the scum teams on this forum. Also, hindsight is 20/20. It's easy to look back and pluck examples like that, but there are just as many, if not more, examples of townies being bad and throwing votes around. | ||
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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
You're right about YourHarry, but that was exactly how he played town as well so it made some modicum of sense for him to play like that. I'll go look at Normal Mini though, since I don't know anything about prplhz. | ||
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36161 Posts
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36161 Posts
On August 09 2012 02:10 Custos Luna wrote: That's a rather ignorant blanket statement. You have clearly not been utterly destroyed by some of the scum teams on this forum. Also, hindsight is 20/20. It's easy to look back and pluck examples like that, but there are just as many, if not more, examples of townies being bad and throwing votes around. Custos - you're missing what I was saying. I'm not saying all scum are bad. Kei made the point that he didn't think scum would be bad so early. I was providing counterexamples. | ||
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slOosh
3291 Posts
On August 09 2012 02:10 marvellosity wrote: yeah - why would he bring it up with me again? It just goes to highlight the whole thing. What do you think? Like I said, it is strange but I don't find it a strong alignment indicative strange. It could be a town action trying to come to mutual understanding with another player, or it could be scum action fearful of repercussions if left unsaid and so addressing it early. I mentioned how I chose to internally take the advice (if I recall correctly), but scum could also do that in fear of being exposed. In either case I don't find it weighty enough to override my read on his general play. | ||
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slOosh
3291 Posts
Hey Hiro, could we get some current opinions / reads from you? | ||
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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
So point taken, scum can play really..."badly" on day1. How often does it happen though? I can link you to a lot more examples where the person with the most Scummy Marks on day1 was actually a townie. This is part of why I always hate about the day1 lynch. Do I just vote the person who has the most scummy points? Or do I WIFOM around it because playing badly as scum just doesn't make sense most of the time? | ||
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