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strongandbig
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On July 28 2012 07:19 Toadesstern wrote: I actually considered that to be a possibilty in Callers last Caller game. I almost was a little sad figuring out not a single smurf was his  Does that mean you know who quicksilver was? What if it was caller smurfing as someone who actually plays mafia? (I still think it was ace tho) | ||
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On July 29 2012 04:16 Toadesstern wrote: Wasn't it prphlz? I think I knew who every smurf was afterwards or even half through the game but no idea right now. That game was 50% smurfs and I really can't tell them appart anymore, so might be his smurf was called something else and quicksilver was palmar or whoever else. palmar's smurf was quatol. He didn't actually play that game, he just trolled a bit and then got bored and ignored it. prplhz fucked up with his smurf and then played with his main account. I think he was "U" but not sure; anyway he def wasn't qs7. if you know who quicksilver was then you know something that the rest of the thread didn't. | ||
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On August 01 2012 03:53 Hopeless1der wrote: 3 hours and 12 minutes. I hope he does *exactly this* just to make it look like he's smurfing in his own game. | ||
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On August 01 2012 23:43 Erandorr wrote: bc y u no start game dnd bro. Gotta paralyze your friends and throw them down a well so they can "explore" it. actually wait a minute, dnd mafia would be sick | ||
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On August 02 2012 07:38 BloodyC0bbler wrote: sadly I am running a 4th ed game not a 3.5 thus all you get is diplomacy and intimidate basically. ooooooooohhhhhhhhhh why would you do this to yourself and more importantly, why would you do this to your players | ||
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T___T hate european time zone | ||
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Besides you're not even in this time zone! | ||
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Now, have of y'all seen my Pete? He's got a little bit of ex-plainin' to do for hisself! Now, let's get down to some brass tacks and see just what y'all have been gettin' your selves up to while the rest of you thought the missus wasn't lookin'! On August 03 2012 12:52 talismania wrote: 3) Let's say 10 masons claim. Ok you have a point. Let's say 4 do. That's gotta be at least 3 town 1 scum, if not 2-2. 4 - 0 either way is silly. And frankly I think it's easier to find one out four than to find 5 out of 19 at the beginning. Now, now, girl - just because somethin's silly don't mean it can't happen! Besides, if we're goin' to be spankin' our six-shooters 'mongst a mess o' masons, then those malicious ones ain't gonna claim at-all - and if that's the truth, ain't no reason for the town ones to claim either, far's I see it. My thinkin's that a townie ain't got nothin' to hide, but a scum mason's gonna have his work cut out for 'im, so let'm try an fool us! On August 03 2012 10:36 JingleHell wrote: Do you bite if we ask nicely? Zephirdd, don't you think there's danger of an early bandwagon voting with no cause like that? It's hard to defend yourself against a vote for no reason. FoS Zephirdd Now now, girl, you're a right greenhorn aren't y'all! I did some diggin' and it 'peers you've been a-musin' yourself over in the kiddie pool, so might be a bit 'scusable for you to be playin' like we're still in it - but even for a greenhorn, this is some mighty weak sauce you got cookin' up here! Let me lend you one of my be-autiful cookbooks! On August 03 2012 12:08 talismania wrote: oh man I hope bc didn't link role names and actual roles. kinda bet he did though I'm Trudy Campbell, and I'm a plain old ordinary re-gu-lar vanilla townie type. Now here's the thing - more like me claimin' our identities ain't gonna shed much light on the problem, cause it could go either way - us wives and relations could be vanilla on account of being un-important, or just on account of being plenniful. So here's what I propose - if any of you're a vanilla townie and are some kinda big important hot-shot who might be thought likely to be a power role or scummy type, how's about you say so? If no one does it won't tell us much, but if they do we might be able to move away from this line of thinkin'. | ||
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On August 03 2012 23:30 Erandorr wrote: what in the fuck. prplhz. Could you please explain to me what wbg has done in this game that makes you defend the guy? oh hi erandorr glad to see you're in the thread | ||
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On August 03 2012 23:32 JingleHell wrote: This seemed off because he seemed to have stopped for the night by the time I went to sleep. So, I looked. Sure enough, you start posting a case 7 hours and change after VE's last post, you vote somewhere in the 8ish hour range, and say you want fast answers 9 hours after his last post. Asking for an answer quick is one thing if he's posting, but this seems a bit pushy. Trying to force the issue with someone who hasn't posted in hours and use that to make them look scummy? I can't speak for his motives, because they sure as hell don't make much sense to me yet, but yours just seem scummy. lol | ||
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On August 03 2012 23:32 JingleHell wrote: This seemed off because he seemed to have stopped for the night by the time I went to sleep. So, I looked. Sure enough, you start posting a case 7 hours and change after VE's last post, you vote somewhere in the 8ish hour range, and say you want fast answers 9 hours after his last post. Asking for an answer quick is one thing if he's posting, but this seems a bit pushy. Trying to force the issue with someone who hasn't posted in hours and use that to make them look scummy? I can't speak for his motives, because they sure as hell don't make much sense to me yet, but yours just seem scummy. Tee Hee Hee. Oh, you. | ||
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On August 03 2012 21:48 wherebugsgo wrote: Erandorr just masoned me. Dunno if he's scum or just dumb though. Also I didn't ask either of them before outting them. errandorr I was kind of hoping you would address this without being prompted but... | ||
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On August 03 2012 23:53 Erandorr wrote: I wanted to see if he did it again, considering I know my alignment. Its a completely anti town move . Give me one reason why not to hammer wbg right now please. hahahahahahaha okay | ||
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On August 04 2012 00:20 wherebugsgo wrote: Gotta love 8:30 vision appointments. For anyone who doesn't know, from my perspective Erandor and VE share two important traits: One, they both call me scum in every game without fail regardless of their own alignments. Two, they're both awful as town. Right now I lean toward Erandor being terrible, since I don't think as scum he'd stop being lazy long enough to form a coherent sentence. yeah but do you really think he's bad enough to mason you just to see if you would out a mason a second time? I have a hard time buying that. | ||
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On August 04 2012 00:00 Erandorr wrote: strongandbig, your posts are completely worthless one liners. Right now, tell me what you think about what wbg did. Do you agree with him outing the masons? Why do you think he did it? Do you think he is rather town or scum? tbh i originally thought he was lying, ve hadn't masoned him, and he was trying to incite reactions. I have no fucking clue why bugs is doing what he's doing. It's extremely stupid if he did it with no plan in mind. I know he's not stupid, so I'm waiting to find out what the plan is or was. I think we should lynch him if he doesn't persuade us that outing the masons was a good idea, because if he doesn't convince us that he had a good reason my conclusion would be that his plan was "fuck with town so they can't get organized." It's also really weird that toad and that other guy are still arguing about whether or not masons should claim. It's irrelevant now and one of them is probably scum. | ||
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Plus it doesn't explain at all why he outed erandor as well. Plus unlike in bureaucracy, scum can double stack this game. So no I don't buy the given reason. If he doesn't have something better, then yes I think "to fuck with town" is the most likely option. Plus "establishing that he's given mafia a reason to wifom" can also help answer people on day three asking "why haven't scum shot you yet." | ||
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Ace's Scum 101: get town to lynch people for being bad rather than for being scum. I mean, I may be bad but I'm not stupid. On August 04 2012 17:47 wherebugsgo wrote: also no, obviously I think all the other lynch candidates are inferior. Why should we resort to trusting a vig to shoot grush? How do we even know if we have a vig? This sort of stuff really pisses me off, because it delays the inevitable. On August 04 2012 09:00 wherebugsgo wrote: Your basic assumption that outing masons in this game is antitown is flawed. I already pointed that out when...oh, I dunno, I called you bad several times for thinking it. If you out masons then you pressure them. Zephirdd was 100% correct on why I did it (and if he's scum that was a pretty brilliant play by him). The goal is to distinguish the town masons from the scum masons via their handing of the pressure. Also it has the side effect of scaring mafia masons into potentially not using their roles if they fear they will instantly be outted and put in a small pool of players for scrutiny. Playing like Ace only works when you're Ace and always play like Ace. On August 03 2012 20:59 wherebugsgo wrote: 1. Being a mason isn't alignment indicative (therefore outting a mason is rather worthless) Town wbg would realize that this logic is terrible. Town wbg wouldn't give multiple different explanations for outing masons on day 1 without discussing it with them and without participating with the town discussion of whether masons should claim. (for reference, those explanations were "because VE and I are good and this way medics might medic us", and "to pressure the masons") Town wbg wouldn't try to lead a lynch on a bad player just for being bad, without making a case, etc. This isn't town wbg. ##vote: wherebugsgo | ||
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On August 04 2012 19:56 wherebugsgo wrote: Number 1: I did not give multiple explanations for outting the masons. I gave one. I don't see how you asserting that I gave multiple explanations is an indication that I did. Yeah you did. First you said it was so mafia would have to wifom over whether to shoot you and VE, then you said it was to pressure VE. On August 04 2012 19:56 wherebugsgo wrote: Third, how is being a mason not being alignment indicative (a fucking fact of the setup) "terrible logic"? That's not the part that's wrong. The part that's wrong is "therefore outting a mason is rather worthless." On August 04 2012 19:56 wherebugsgo wrote: Fourth, there is absolutely something wrong with you if you think I am a better lynch than grush. Grush is playing to his LVI meta. If you don't care to read LVI, then you can continue being bad. Also, I'm not voting grush for being bad. He's going to be bad regardless of his alignment, but I've already pointed out how as town he doesn't actually troll this hard, unless he's somehow become even worse than he already was. Yeah so if you're going to claim you were able to determine grush's alignment based on his single first post you're going to have to convince me he doesn't troll as town. I don't think you're going to be able to convince me of that because he does. He might troll more as scum than he does as town, but the one post he'd made at the time you started trying to lynch him isn't enough to convince me he's "playing to his scum meta." On August 04 2012 20:36 wherebugsgo wrote: yo guys I can't play with Erandorr anymore, he's too fucking bad. Just lynch me. ##unvote ##vote wherebugsgo I'm not even kidding, this is a waste of my time. I know I have said that it's a priority for townies to establish their innocence d1 and all that. However, if you actually agree with him that I am scum then there is no way I will be relieved of suspicion at any point in this game. If I catch scum, you will say I bussed them because I am good at scum. If I don't catch scum, then I will be lynched for not catching scum. Just kill me now and get it over with so that we're all happier for it. Yeah well fuck you very much too. Seriously after how pissed you got at RoL for trolling bureaucracy mafia, and now you're trying to get us to think you're a self-voting pissed townie? I don't buy it. (also playing against wincon etcetera.) On August 04 2012 20:44 wherebugsgo wrote: in PMs. also, think about this: Erandor's entire case against me hinges on me publicly outting mafia masons (as a scum tactic.) If I were scum and I knew VE and Erandorr were town masons why wouldn't I just privately tell my team instead of posting to the thread? Erandorr's case has jack shit to do with why I think you're scum. jack shit. | ||
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1. because VE is good enough to breadcrumb who he masons, and you publicly announcing it gives you cover to kill him without revealing that you're scum. (ie, if you just killed him we would look through his filter, find his breadcrumb, and kill you.) 2. For the same reason you want us to be talking about grush and killing him for his first post not being good: to leave town in a state of disorganized confusion. | ||
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On August 04 2012 21:14 wherebugsgo wrote: Given how much you want to lynch me, then you should welcome the help. No matter what I do, you're going to call me scum. That's a given, because you're using the worst logic I've ever seen to call me scum, and Erandorr in particular won't stop tunneling me. Thus, given my reputation as a scum player (in particular) I will always be a lynch candidate. Is it playing against my wincondition? No, actually. If I'm always going to be a lynch candidate and if my lynch is going to take up all the discussion space then it's actually BENEFICIAL to town to kill me right here, right now. Why? Because then you can stop wasting time and For the record both grush and prplhz are 95% scum to me. - How do I "want to lynch you" so much? I don't want to lynch you if you're town, it's just that your play makes me think you're scum. - I assume when you say you're "always going to be a lynch candidate" then you mean in this game in particular, because you certainly aren't "always a lynch candidate" "because of your rep as a good scum player" in games of yours that I've observed. If so, then you have to recognize that you have brought it on yourself by your weird-ass scummy-ass play, and rather than get pissed about it you should be trying to persuade us that you're town. Given the way you posted the first 24-30 hours of this game that's quite a task. Also let me say this - I don't find your explanations of your reasons for outing the masons, especially VE, compe lling. I don't yosee what "pressure" you put VE under, unless you meant "do something weird/unexpected to VE and see if he blows his lid." Like, VE posted about you revealing him maybe once, when he said he was yelling at you in PMs. - And yeah, no I don't think "dying to free up discussion space" is a good idea for a townie, and I don't think you believe that either. | ||
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On May 07 2012 07:24 wherebugsgo wrote: I'll give you some examples: from my past games, the only times I have trolled for extended periods of time with no real change in play were when I was scum. All the other times, if I have ever trolled/brought attention to myself it was either a gambit or out of exasperation with the game. Since then I've realized that gambiting is to be used rarely and that it often doesn't work as town. Voting yourself, for example, is a stupid way to establish yourself as town because anyone can do it (any scum with balls will do it) and it doesn't reveal anything about your alignment. It doesn't further discussion; it in fact impedes it, and it doesn't help find scum; it goes against it. Examples: In LoTR I pretended to only be interested in the ring for the first 24 hours of the day. In the second half of the day I basically attacked anyone who unreasonably focused on me solely because of that. My target of the day was DrH, who ended up being mafia godfather (and I was shot n1). I was town. In Storm I was mafia and saw that if I was loud enough, and because town was not playing well, I could just scream and yell and troll all I wanted about players' misplays that I could get any lynch I wanted. In that game I would estimate over half my posts were either useless one liners or gifs/jokes/troll posts. Yet, my team managed to get 3 lynches straight on townies; what does that tell you? I was under a lot of attention the entire time as well, because my play was borderline suicidal. Town caught on after lynching my scumbuddy (and even early game because of my disruption I was suspected) That game taught me that playing in that manner may be good if you want to gather the sheep, but often they'll only be willing to go for other disruptive people. For the most part that means they'll kill the loudest townies for a few days before realizing the error in their ways. | ||
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On August 04 2012 21:55 wherebugsgo wrote: How the flying fuck am I trolling? On May 07 2012 07:24 wherebugsgo wrote: I'll give you some examples: from my past games, the only times I have trolled for extended periods of time with no real change in play were when I was scum. All the other times, if I have ever trolled/brought attention to myself it was either a gambit or out of exasperation with the game. Since then I've realized that gambiting is to be used rarely and that it often doesn't work as town. Voting yourself, for example, is a stupid way to establish yourself as town because anyone can do it (any scum with balls will do it) and it doesn't reveal anything about your alignment. It doesn't further discussion; it in fact impedes it, and it doesn't help find scum; it goes against it. Examples: In LoTR I pretended to only be interested in the ring for the first 24 hours of the day. In the second half of the day I basically attacked anyone who unreasonably focused on me solely because of that. My target of the day was DrH, who ended up being mafia godfather (and I was shot n1). I was town. In Storm I was mafia and saw that if I was loud enough, and because town was not playing well, I could just scream and yell and troll all I wanted about players' misplays that I could get any lynch I wanted. In that game I would estimate over half my posts were either useless one liners or gifs/jokes/troll posts. Yet, my team managed to get 3 lynches straight on townies; what does that tell you? I was under a lot of attention the entire time as well, because my play was borderline suicidal. Town caught on after lynching my scumbuddy (and even early game because of my disruption I was suspected) That game taught me that playing in that manner may be good if you want to gather the sheep, but often they'll only be willing to go for other disruptive people. For the most part that means they'll kill the loudest townies for a few days before realizing the error in their ways. | ||
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Here's why I think wbg is scum: When he's town he explains things, doesn't gambit, and doesn't draw attention to himself for no reason with stunts. In this game, he hasn't explained himself in a satisfactory way - and the explanations he has given don't hold up whatsoever. His reasons for outing the masons don't hold up. If he wanted mafia to have to wifom before shooting him, there was really no reason he needed to claim mason; he could have just played super townie, which he is definitely capable of doing, and then called for medic protection. His claim to be "pressuring" ve by outing him doesn't match his thread behavior, where he didn't pressure ve at all or even make him post more than once or twice. And his claim to be "deterring potential scum masons from masoning people in the future" doesn't hold up either, unless everyone agrees to out more masons in the future; in order for this tactic to work he would have to persuade everyone that outing masons is good in general and he hasn't even tried to do that. Additionally, I would count this "instantly outing masons" thing as a gambit of the second order - and bugs has frequently said not to gambit as town. It's not in his town meta. Next, both with the outing of the masons and with his self-voting, public insults, and flame-war with erandorr, he's drawing attention to himself in a way that isn't consistent with his town play. Finally, there's the grush thing. Usually when town-wbg tries to lead a lynch, it's with reasons and explanation as well as the insults. This one had jack shit of that until he was pushed on it, and then when he was pushed on it the best he could come up with was more insults plus an example of one game where grush trolled. Yeah so that's why wbg is scum. Vote for him. | ||
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On August 04 2012 21:14 wherebugsgo wrote: These aren't two different explanations. It's ONE explanation with THREE parts (one which you missed, btw.) It would be suspicious if I went back and said "no that's not what I meant, I meant THIS" because then I would be flip flopping. Having multiple reasons for something being good is simply an indication of it being...well, good. You can argue semantics but from a scumhunting perspective it only matters if your target changed his explanation. If the explanation hasn't changed then there's nothing wrong. There's no reason for bugs to have said "I did not give multiple explanations" if he actually had three different reasons. The only way I could possibly buy that is if he gave all these reasons at the same time instead of spreading them out over multiple posts in response to different pressures. On August 04 2012 21:14 wherebugsgo wrote: This is probably just you not understanding what I was saying because of my carelessness with the sentence. Possessing the role of mason in this game says nothing about your alignment. Therefore, if I out someone as a mason it doesn't tell anyone anything about whether they are town or mafia (therefore the act itself is worthless in terms of determining their alignment.) So this still ignores the same point as bugs ignored originally - the mason role has uses beyond giving information about the alignment of the person with the power. If you out someone as mason it clearly doesn't tell us anything about their alignment but it does change the way they can use their role, and if they're town it can hurt town. When bugs was masoned, for him to essentially go "the guy who masoned me could be scum, I'ma reveal them to town so I can find out" was the lazy way. If bugs was town I would think he would have some confidence in his own ability to read people who are masoned with him, and would realize that if he gets a town read on the person then it's advantageous to not reveal them as the mason. | ||
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On August 05 2012 00:55 Erandorr wrote: @ Strongandbig I would like your opinion. From a town POV, why would wbg call me scum or dumb if I mason him? He assumes a town Mason must be dumb to mason him, because he instantly outs them. He said later that outing town masons is also pro town, because it forces Scum to shoot suboptimally. And obviously because a town mason has nothing to fear from pressure. So there is absolutely no reason to call a town mason dumb for masoning him, unless he knows that his move fucks town masons over. lol I don't agree with this entirely. His thought process could be "Erandorr says he wants to remain secret; Erandorr masoned me after I just revealed the last guy who masoned me; therefore, either Eranorr is lying about wanting to remain secret (because he's scum and thinks he can gain town cred here) or he is stupid." Frankly I agree that you masoning him didn't make any sense. Tha | ||
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"i can't find out a good scum in pm's. no one really can." -wbg from those pm's | ||
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On August 05 2012 04:33 wherebugsgo wrote: Also the people who think I willingly brought attention to myself are funny. I didn't fully think of the repercussions when I outted the masons in terms of thread presence but I also didn't account for the fact that many people who have different opinions will consider opposing viewpoints as scummy (because they are incapable of understanding that different does not mean scum) if you're town then your play this game has been fucking terrible. i guess maybe you have irl shit but that's really the only explanation i could accept for why you've been playing the way you have instead of how you normally play. like, i usually have a lot of respect for how you play but if you're town this game you're being both stupid and an asshole, and i don't feel like sitting here and taking your shit. | ||
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On August 05 2012 04:46 wherebugsgo wrote: Sorry to BC and those players who aren't playing terribly (notably VE slOosh and Zeph) but I actually don't care about being modkilled given that it will stop the stupid discussion about mr being scum. Like given the mounds of this shit I've had to go through (like every time I play with gonzaw) I have fucking zero sympathy for you right now. If you have irl shit then ask for a replacement, otherwise just fucking deal with it and play the game. | ||
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On August 05 2012 05:00 wherebugsgo wrote: Sure, my play has not been the best given the fucktard that won't stop tunneling me for no reason at all. Normally I'd be completely fine with some idiot tunneling me but the fact that I'm low on patience coupled with other people agreeing with his terrible reasoning is enough to make me want to not play anymore. Seriously if you think I am scum, when I flip town go read some new player guides. Especially Erandorr, you never do anything in any of the games you sign up for except lurk and complain other people are bad when you are worse than all of them. Then you think so highly of yourself that you are capable of catching me (you aren't) when you don't even know basic scumhunting. Here's a hint: calling me scum every game is not you being able to catch me regardless of what I flipped in the past. It's just you falling head over heels for confirmation bias because you think results make you good. jesus fucking christ get over yourself and get over erandorr. if you are town then: - your decision to out the masons without explaining it was terrible - your explanations for it were terrible - your vote on grush was terrible After that I am not going to sit here and take you calling me bad for thinking you're scum. | ||
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On August 05 2012 05:13 wherebugsgo wrote: You thinking a difference in opinion makes someone scum = terrible. None of the things you mentioned are remotely bad in the first place. that has nothing to do with it. I think you're scum because your explanations don't hold together, because you tried to change the lynch to grush (the most lynchable target in the game) and tried to get us to do a troll lynch, because you made a half-assed attempt at a "case" on him later that is far worse than what I know you're capable of, because your explanations were inconsistent, and because your play matches a lot of things that you have said you don't do as town. None of that has to do with a "difference of opinion." So once again, fuck you right back. | ||
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He's right, so let me rephrase that post. It should read: that has nothing to do with it. I think you're scum because your explanations don't hold together, because you tried to change the lynch to grush (the most lynchable target in the game) and tried to get us to do a troll lynch, because you made a half-assed attempt at a "case" on him later that is far worse than what I know you're capable of, because your explanations were inconsistent, and because your play matches a lot of things that you have said you don't do as town. None of that has to do with a "difference of opinion." | ||
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On August 05 2012 04:57 slOosh wrote: He got pissed off and it resulted in some unwanted behavior. Move on - do you have any objections to a talismania lynch? forgot to answer this. My objection to a talismania lynch is that it's not a wbg lynch. I don't understand why his recent behavior makes people think he's town. I don't see how it's alignment indicative. | ||
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On August 05 2012 05:38 slOosh wrote: Read his PM log with Erandorr. Try to approach it from a "what is scum WBG trying to accomplish with his actions" rather than a "is WBG playing as well as what I envision a town WBG would play like". Just finished reading it. So you're thinking about this wrong. wbg's play isn't accomplishing objectives when he gets into this fight with errandor and starts raging everywhere. As I've said before, I think that scum wbg would be just as upset at the prospect of getting lynched for what he sees as shitty reasons as town wbg would. What I see in that pm log is just what wbg said it was - no serious attempt to persuade, except to persuade erandor that he's stupid. So no, I don't see that chat log as alignment indicative, I see it as "wbg being in a really bad mood for some out of game reason" indicative. Look at his play before the fight between him and erandorr, that's where we have things that are actually valid to analyze. | ||
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On August 05 2012 06:35 slOosh wrote: It goes back to "why would scum WBG do what he did?" Because you say that outing masons is completely anti-town and disagree with what he did. However, this isn't absolute truth as logic is, it is a camp of thought, something like "masons are valuable town resources and should be treated with same respect / care as other traditional blues". His camp of thought is "outing masons is better as a reasonable way to confirm the alignment of the mason, hinder scum use of masons and force them to make subpar shots". The issue is how valuable do you think a mason is. More than a cop? Less than a medic? There isn't a clearcut answer, and trying to come to a consensus inside a game is futile and unproductive. He outted 2 masons without asking them because asking beforehand defeats the whole purpose. Through it we now have varying degrees of town-reads on you and VE. That's a town motive - get more accurate reads on town. You can dispute how it wasn't worth outting a blue, but first you would have to convince everyone that what he did was egregious and utmost scummy, and then you would have to convince us that WBG knew this and chose the "inferior" path and therefore what he did was scummy. This is beside the point. It's not that he revealed the masons, it's how he did it, how he justified it in the thread and how he acted under pressure. | ||
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On August 05 2012 07:26 talismania wrote: Jingle I think you're town and all but why does a scum mason mason some guy who just outed another mason? Why does scum erandorr do that? why does town erandorr do it? it's bad play either way imo. | ||
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just thought I'd let you guys know. we need to start killing mafia. | ||
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Scummiest of all: wherebugsgo + Show Spoiler + On August 03 2012 20:50 wherebugsgo wrote: before I forget, I got masoned by VE. I'm not a mason. I'm Roger Sterling. You guys should know that by now, but then again I don't remember why I hired some of you. scummy as fuck. idgaf about him getting all emo that's not alignment indicative. It seems like continuing to push for his lynch right now is just gonna fuck over the town atmosphere even more, so I'll give him a day. However, it's gonna take some fucking townie-ass shit to change my mind. also where the fuck do bugs go On August 04 2012 08:52 wherebugsgo wrote: + Show Spoiler + Let's kill grush. As long as he trolls he's a detriment and certainly the only thing he actually does as scum is troll. Pretty sure given his first post he's not town this game, just as he wasn't in LV. I would strongly suggest to anyone who gets masoned to out the person who masoned them from now on. If both Eran and VE are town then the likelihood of a third mason being town is incredibly low. Thus if there is a scum mason they'd be unlikely to use it (win for us). I'm pretty sure both VE and Eran are town (for now). In particular Eran is almost certainly town because he really wants me to prove I'm town (encouraging me to get on skype, for example) something I don't think he'd do as scum. Anyone voting for him right now (Jingle) needs to also read his posts. Some of the logic might be bad but that doesn't make Eran scum. ##vote grush57 seriously scummy as fuck >80% chance of flipping scum imo:
Candidates for the other scum:
I also generated quite a few weak town reads and three or four really really strong town reads. However, I won't be sharing those because there's no good reason to and I don't want to give scum advice on which lurkers to shoot. I'm also just going to post some stuff down below here because it deserves to be pointed out. + Show Spoiler + On August 03 2012 10:40 VisceraEyes wrote: + Show Spoiler + On August 03 2012 10:34 Zephirdd wrote: HAHAHA I WIN for that ##vote prplhz I didn't realize we ventured off the beaten path into MafiaScum here...so we're just voting randomly now? Should I take this as your consent to lynch randomly today? For my part, I'm very much against random lynching in this game. We need to be lynching scum, and if Bureaucracy taught us anything, it's that D1 scum lynches are VERY VERY possible given proper scumhunting. Granted, it took scum and town BOTH looking, but I digress....I'm against RL this game. Actually wait where the fuck did random lynch proposal come from -> null or scum Yeah I know people said ve was playing cautiously because of his role but fuck that he's ve, he doesn't do that shit. On August 05 2012 03:44 VisceraEyes wrote: Okay, everyone STOP. This lynch on WBG is not happening. Having PMed with him, I'm NOT of the opinion that he's scum and I think we should focus on other, actually scummy candidates. You guys are WIFOMing this lynch to shit. I fully support a talis lynch upon rereading. He literally asked for a NAMECLAIM from everyone guys. LITERALLY. ##Vote: talismania I think Bugs is town. I don't want to lynch him. slOosh, you in particular I want to hear more reasoning from. Your only gripe with him seems to be his read on prplhz - so...because you disagree with his read he's scum? Really? I don't like a grush lynch today either - it feels like a copout. But I totally can see a town Bugs wanting to lynch grush today. Grush was a key factor in the scum victory in LVI, for the same shit he's exhibiting now. However, I agree that we should give our vigs a chance to take care of him. We should be aiming for people we specifically think are scum, and for me that's not wherebugsgo. This is pretty terrible play, VE. You just assert that your PMs with wbg make you think he's town. That shouldn't be enough to move a lynch off of someone without proof, you need to back that up. On the other hand, I think talismania looks scummy, so ve gets benefit of the doubt for now. | ||
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Grush: + Show Spoiler + On August 04 2012 07:50 grush57 wrote: THE STARSENSES, THEY ARE COOOOMMING TOO MEEE grush why do you even play mafia if you just aren't going to try. I mean you might be scum this time around but you do shit like this as both alignments. I am not even kidding or trying to insult you here. I genuinely am curious - why do you keep joining games if you're not going to actually play? Or do you just not understand that (1) establishing your innocence, and (2) persuading other people of your reads are actually important parts of the game? Synystyr: + Show Spoiler + On August 05 2012 01:14 Synystyr wrote: + Show Spoiler + In regards to Grush vs WBG, I did find this back fro LVI Man, scum Grush isn't based on him having opinions. It's based on him not activating his starsenses. He was dumb and trolly but mildly helpful in listing people somewhere, enough so that maju mentioned his starsenses in LV, and Grush then posted a list of suspects, although in Grush fashion. This time, NO STARSENSE. KURUMI RULE + NO STARSENSE REFERENCE = SCUM. from: http://www.quicktopic.com/47/H/hmrAdwKTNFm Dead obs thread for LVI Grush did mention starsenses in this thread, so this may be his way of tipping us off that he is town with us. However he's seems so trollish that this could mean nothing. I wouldn't go as far as to discredit this though. I'm still not a fan at all of WBG's idea to out masons this early. Whatever he says, it is a completely anti-town move and gives Mafia easy targets. WBG is also messing with our Vig's head on who to shoot. He may be directing the heat off of himself and onto the masons as targets, causing possible misfire. I believe Erandorr and VE are both town and WBG's play is to fuck with the Vig's head and get a misfire on either, while the Mafia target the other. You need to post more and also post things that are more insightful man. I think what you're suggesting here is that grush is breadcrumbing that he's town and we should listen to him, which is pretty silly - otherwise we would know that he's scum every time he didn't do that. I guess you are new so you get a day or two since there are even clearer scum, but seriously bro post more and post better please. Sloosh: + Show Spoiler + On August 05 2012 03:02 slOosh wrote: OK Talis just claimed scum with that last post. Ignore him please. If talismania claimed scum with that post why did we lynch prplhz and not him. | ||
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On August 06 2012 01:04 Zephirdd wrote: S&B, your pretty pwetty little list is nothing but a list of half-ass scum reads made to make anyone look scummy. I heard somewhere that those who post many "scum reads" at once are most likely scum because they are creating ground for several targets. Are you scum? nooooope, better luck next time! I decided to reread the whole thread, thinking of looking for scum other than wbg, and that list is what I found. If you look, you'll note that several of the people I quoted haven't posted much. I'd kind of like them to post a bit more before I decide on one of them to push for lynching tomorrow. But rest assured, I will narrow it down to one when the day post comes around and I'll push to lynch that person. | ||
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On August 06 2012 01:04 Zephirdd wrote: S&B, your pretty pwetty little list is nothing but a list of half-ass scum reads made to make anyone look scummy. I heard somewhere that those who post many "scum reads" at once are most likely scum because they are creating ground for several targets. Are you scum? Two more things. 1. Does my list really make you more suspicious than Talismania's? They were like four posts apart, but his list just had general impressions and feelings whereas I actually quoted the posts that make me think people are scum. 2. Do you disagree with my reads? Do you think some of the posts I'm quoting are not scummy? Seriously, take a look and tell me. | ||
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On August 06 2012 04:11 talismania wrote: strongandbig and VE what do you think of the other? I like answering questions like this! It's super easy and gets me free townie points! no but actually I think it's unlikely that VE is scum and wbg is town. It seems unlikely they would do a big gambit like this and have it explode in their face. It looked like VE actually cared about the lynch / was acting to protect his townread, even if i think his read is wrong, defening your town reads is still kind of a town trait. | ||
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On August 06 2012 04:56 Hier wrote: Strongandbig: So since I tried to get votes off of prplhz, who turned out to be town, you suspect me of being mafia. I totally don’t see where you’re coming from. Sounds like you wanted to write something about me without exuding too much effort. Talismania: Honestly, I don’t know your alignment. But some interesting points that will have me pondering over are the following. 1) You ask two people, directly, what their opinions are of various players (including each other!) 2 hours after the game starts and before you even offer any reads yourself. + Show Spoiler [Erandorr] + On August 04 2012 00:06 talismania wrote: Erandorr what do you think of Glasse? (again) also, what do you think of toad and VE? + Show Spoiler [Toadesstern] + On August 04 2012 00:08 talismania wrote: yo toad what you make of erandorr, glasse, VE, wbg? 2) Then you dump this on us: So you blindly agree with Sloosh without any afterword, and you label Jinglebell, Lazer, and SnB town aligned without any explanation whatsoever. Looks more like filler. 3) You go fishing for roles and alignments. 4) Keep tunnelling. + Show Spoiler [Constant questions without much else] + On August 04 2012 07:13 talismania wrote: zeph and toad, thoughts on the other? On August 05 2012 04:46 talismania wrote: Toad what do you think about glasse's and dropula's votes? Completely cool with you? On August 06 2012 04:11 talismania wrote: strongandbig and VE what do you think of the other? On August 06 2012 04:20 talismania wrote: uh the only other read I see in your filter is about grush. Do you still think he is scum? Do you think anyone else is scum? How do you respond to what strongandbig said? 5) Finally you are just assuming Sloosh is town and order medics to protect him. I’m not completely confident on your alignment, none of this is conclusive for me, but come on; you need to sell your town play better. Mounting flimsy defenses of townie lynch targets for terrible reasons is something scum does a lot, they can point towards it later and be like "see I was on the right side of that". It's not just that you tried to defend him, it's that your reasons for doing so were terrible. | ||
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On August 05 2012 03:44 VisceraEyes wrote: Okay, everyone STOP. This lynch on WBG is not happening. Having PMed with him, I'm NOT of the opinion that he's scum and I think we should focus on other, actually scummy candidates. You guys are WIFOMing this lynch to shit. I fully support a talis lynch upon rereading. He literally asked for a NAMECLAIM from everyone guys. LITERALLY. ##Vote: talismania I think Bugs is town. I don't want to lynch him. slOosh, you in particular I want to hear more reasoning from. Your only gripe with him seems to be his read on prplhz - so...because you disagree with his read he's scum? Really? I don't like a grush lynch today either - it feels like a copout. But I totally can see a town Bugs wanting to lynch grush today. Grush was a key factor in the scum victory in LVI, for the same shit he's exhibiting now. However, I agree that we should give our vigs a chance to take care of him. We should be aiming for people we specifically think are scum, and for me that's not wherebugsgo. So I read the pm logs. (Two small corrections for wbg - 1. I claimed vanilla with trudy campbell, not talismania. 2. If you really can't see why I find your play scummy up to the point where you and erandorr started pissing on each other, and if you still think it has anything at all to do with whether or not outing the masons was a good idea, then you must have even bigger irl problems than I thought because I know you're not that stupid.) Anyway, I read the pm logs, and I can't figure out what in there made you think wbg is town. Care to enlighten me? @Talismania, yeahhh... I think there are good reasons to be suspicious of you but I don't think VE picked them. I might be willing to lynch him today. Talismania why didn't you post your terrible plan this game? Also On August 06 2012 15:58 wherebugsgo wrote: I forgot to mention that the most suspicious part is that he indicated a willingness to push suspicion onto Toad in the case that the guy he himself was voting(prplhz) flipped town. That's essentially skirting responsibility for the lynch in the case it goes bad bugs what about when toad says if prplh flipped town we should be killing you or talismania because of it? How is that different? | ||
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Please evaluate other aspects of his play than just his attacks on you. Self-centeredness is sometimes a scum trait and sometimes a trait of shitty play (I know, I've done it myself) but it's never a sign of a good town player. | ||
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He gets added to the scummy noob/lurker list with BioSC, BroodKing, and Glasse. The thing is, they're probably not all going to flip scum, and I don't know which one to kill | ||
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you have posted once lol | ||
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On August 07 2012 00:37 MrZentor wrote: Apparently that's suspicious. who do you think is scum | ||
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On August 07 2012 02:01 VisceraEyes wrote: the way he was playing and posting felt kinda blue to me what movin' on up the scum list ladder train | ||
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I think that VE's townread on WBG coming from those PMs doesn't ring true to me, and his deflecting of the lynch off of wbg came at a pretty important point in the thread. He's posting much less of substance than I would have expected. He used mason-ing as an excuse for that, but he made all of like five pm's with wbg. Also talismania was right about how ve's case on him was kinda weird and cherry-picked. ##vote: VE | ||
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That said, I also think a VE lynch would be good today. Given the cases so far, I don't find myself persuaded that we should be lynching anyone but those two today. | ||
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On August 08 2012 01:30 VisceraEyes wrote: Get ur votes off me and onto Erand. Failure to do so I will treat as a scumclaim. lolololol what a great defence bro | ||
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Other than that I'm voting VE today we can't just lynch into a group of six people. my worry is that having such a big group of lynch targets makes it too easy for scum to get the lynch off of the real scum and onto the shitty townies. i will change my mind if someone can give me a case on why one of them is different from the others but tbh the only real way these games can not be lost by town inactivity is if there's a bigger post requirement that's enforced with modkills or if town has vigis. | ||
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He is no help to any town of which he is part and it's inexplicable why he continues to play the way he does, but at least he occasionally tries a little bit which grush doesn't seem to anyway guys i'm so tired and this deadline is bullshit. We should be killing VE today. He's barely even putting in the effort to defend himself, just the minimum to maybe shift the lynch onto someone else. I still hold to the reasons I posted earlier why I think he's scum. | ||
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this game is frustrating no one posts and everything is stupid. idk but if erandorr was scum why wouldn't he have moved his vote onto ve it was totally justifiable but its on wbg which doesn't make sense as any alignment but maybe as town he ragequit whereas if he was scum he would have been pretending i think idk fuck it im going to bed | ||
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this deadline is bullshit also town you guys are morons we need to be killing VE or wbg tomorrow | ||
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There are two reasons I didn't mention this before his lynch. (well okay three actually) 1: he stopped responding to my pm's around the time of his vote for wbg in the thread. I think he ragequit but I'm not sure what made him do so at that specific point in time. I wanted him to okay it before I told the thread. 2: When I went to bed it looked like VE would be the lynch, I didn't think that it would move so much 3: his masoning me was actually a null tell to me, since I was the main person agreeing with him on WBG being scum; if he was town it made sense to mason me in order to figure out why people wouldn't lynch wbg / if we were missing something. I can post PM logs now or I can post them during the next day. I can't post them just before the deadline because I will be asleep. | ||
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+ Show Spoiler [hat-eating-ception] + ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/elZ9L.png) ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/n9Rly.gif) ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/M4NjX.png) | ||
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Anyway we have the newest episode of the classic beloved sitcom, The Masons VisceraEyes Erandorr Toadesstern JingleHell Grush Hassybaby I now think it's extremely likely that two scum are in this group and that they're between Toad, VE and Hassybaby - those three are the people who would conceivably be given the role by the scum team. Hassybaby hasn't voted and there already was a warning so IMO he deserves to be modkilled, especially if he's scum since we have already had a townie get modkilled. So to sum up: I think we should lynch VE. | ||
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Here's the one and only reason I'm feeling a little bit uncomfortable with lynching wbg tomorrow. wbg looks terrible, but I've always been pretty impressed with him as a player on both sides. I think he's a pretty smart and perceptive person. If his strategy as scum was to lie about having problems irl, risk a modkill, and fake ragequit, I would just be so disappointed in TL mafia and in him specifically. I do feel like lying about your irl issues to excuse yourself in mafia games is pretty much tantamount to cheating if we want the community to be considerate when people really do have actual issues. So I want that to not be true. So wbg I hope you're town, because if you're scum like you look then I'm feeling pretty disappointed in you. | ||
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I think tomorrow's lynch should be wbg. His play was straight-up scummy for the vast majority of day 1, and even given a day 2 with little to no pressure he didn't do anything to help out the town. I also think VE is scum. Out of the lurkers, broodking is likely scum imo. Active lurking, paying attention to the thread but not contributing to it. Hassybaby and biosc should be modkilled imo but we can discuss that after the game. But honestly, even if they're both town imo the town would be better off with them dead; I'm just not convinced we can afford to waste our lynch on them. I thought for a long time that Hassy was scum, since he's played enough to be in a different category from the other lurkers; but in general I think lurky scum tend to play enough to not get modkilled, although I've seen that not be the case. | ||
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+ Show Spoiler + Well this morning I actually was pretty close to giving up. Just the fact that everyone else is letting him get away with these posts he made after returning from a day of afk, ocnveniently not having to commit to a vote an then posting what he did. And both of his 95 percent scumreads flipping town if you noticed that(although I agreed with the prplhz lynch as well ). I do , however agree with you that we cannot really go after him right now. Not with this town. Honestly, there are so many people I have issues with. Could you first of all give me an outside perspective on VE, especially his case against me? It is completely terrible, but can you see it from a town perspective? As you and me pointed out, there was nothing in the pms that clearly indicates that VE thought bugs was town. His play this game is just weird to me, I really do not know what ot make of him. Would you mind giving me an outside perspective on something? Before the lynch, Scum could be certain that prplhz would get lynched. And let's just assume for a second that WBG is scum. This makes me really weary of the "cases" that popped up vs me(jingles and broodking especially). They are in my opinion a cop out. As scum you do not want to go vs WBG in that situation ( again I am just assuming he is scum and even if he were town, from a scum perspective it actually would make sense to let him live, even if that is a bit ballsy.) And with prplhz basicly guaranteed to get lynched no matter what, it is benificial to avoid the bandwagon if possible. The reason I ask this is because I got extremely upset and need some other perspective :D I will need to reread quite a few people and will then give my thoughts on that. Original Message From strongandbig: hey communication is great but i'm at work so TL PMs is best I can do until I leave then I can skype IM, i'll pm you my skype info when i get back what about the thread, who do you think we should kill? Like I said in my big post, I'm giving wbg the day off because it seems like doing otherwise would just screw up the thread. I think talismania's post about VE is pretty decent but I'm worried because it seems to focus so much on ve's interactions with talismania. I also just get a scum feeling from talismania, but I'm not sure why. I think we maybe should kill Glasse or BioSC today, they seem pretty scummy to me and I'm a little hesitant to kill off another vet unless I see a really good case; otoh, scum vets are more dangerous than scum noobs and I'm never really sure how to resolve that conundrum. Hide nested quote - Original Message From Erandorr: any way you would like to communicate (if at all :D ) I thought we were gonna wait a day or two on wbg Vote VE, there's a chance the thread might get behind it. Original Message From Erandorr: yup. ve is scum too. At least we get that information for free. Hide nested quote - Original Message From strongandbig: finals could be now if he has summer classes Original Message From Erandorr: i think ve and wbg are scumbuddies right now. I honestly dont give a fuck anymore. look at the logs between them. VE said he would shout at wbg in a pm. look at the lgos reflecting that... Ve said he is convinced wbg is town from pms. from what? It all doesnt make fucking sense. Mason thing makes only really sense as a mafia gambit, even though i dont think it would be good. also random question but maybe important. when are finals in the US universities? WBg claimed he has finals soon , and he probably does, but its still something i would like to check since im german and he can tell me everyhting also he has not mentioned it anywhere else Original Message From strongandbig: okay so tell me if this makes sense (1) grush makes no sense at all as a scum target. There's no way he was a blue snipe - seriously, what in his filter could make him look blue. (2) therefore unless someone claims a hit, scum probably double stacked sloosh (3) why would they do that given that wbg and VE are in the game (and if both of them are scum then double imba)? (4) because they were worried a medic would be on him -> why would they think that? -> talismania wifomed them into it -> talismania is town Original Message From Erandorr: yup. honestly, nothing more to say than "yeah" Original Message From strongandbig: Original Message From Erandorr: Yeah, look at Jingles last post in the thread. Its incorrect, I agreed with lynching prplhz but I in no way lead the lynch. I maintained that I wanted to lynch wbg. Filtering I can still see him being retarded townie, but it honestly becomes less likely with every post. Really bad players actually do think that you have to defend yourself against cases that I would see on the same level as "he ate a bagel for breakfast, thus he must be scum" I could still see him being that bad. God this game is frustrating Is it just me or is this logic from synystyr's most recent post really stupid? On August 05 2012 10:27 talismania wrote: Medics protect sloosh tonight. If I were mafia I would kill him. He's always Captain America with the town, gathering votes together, keeping things on track. He's active and has generally solid analysis. Plus he's on me, so him dying makes it easy to push my lynch, and then boom two active townies are down the drain. So protect him. He pushes this action to confuse town. If Sloosh dies in the night, it gives Talis tons of town cred because he said that medics should protect Sloosh. A little reverse psychology action too by claiming he would kill Sloosh if he were mafia. A hit on Sloosh appears to be be only negative for him and thus making him look innocent by association. | ||
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+ Show Spoiler + fine with me Original Message From strongandbig: yeah I don't usually get back from work until like 9 Hide nested quote - Original Message From Toadesstern: Ok am back. I'm Toadesstern on Skype. What's your ID? If you're working right now just hit me once you've got time. I've got nothing left to do today other than nerding so I've got nonstop time. Original Message From strongandbig: okay! I actually meant during the night phase of the game, not during the actual night time of the day :/ Original Message From Toadesstern: just a little heads-up: I'm at my parents place right now, my mom told me that she's going to be home around 15:30 CEST (+02:00) and once she's here we're going to my sisters, so I'm probably not available during 15:30 CEST (+02:00) and something like 18:00 CEST (+02:00). After that I should be completly free, I'm done with my exams and could stay up really long because I'm just relaxing now anyways Original Message From strongandbig: can we talk during the night? Original Message From Toadesstern: Okay a few things: 1) Erandorr masoned you as well? Do me a favor and tell him "Copy the last line I wrote in skype yesterday, give that line to s&b, and he pm's it to me. No translation, just the straight up german line I wrote". Or even better, give him my german version of this to make sure he knows you're not faking him either, just copy & paste + Show Spoiler [german] + Why? Just to be sure this is no fake If you're able to do that, that would actually boost my confidence in a lot of my reads lol. So yeah I have no problem with you telling him I masoned you. I however don't think you should tell the thread just yet. 2) Yeah I agree on Talis. There's some things I don't like about him but pushing those weird plans is not alignment indicating at all. The amount of "effort" he's putting in this game however made me reconsider a bit. He wasn't that much talkactive when we both played mafia in PYPoison. He's strange alright but he usually enjoys the "trying to understand the game" way more than "trying to figure out mafia"either way, so that's normal. 3) I disagree with VE however. I just don't think they've got two mafia vets in a game with 2 KP for 3 (with our mislynch 4) nights straight when we only got like 4, 5 or 6 in the game. The number of vets depends on who the smurf is but that's besides the point. For me it's EITHER Eran OR VE OR WBG but not multiple people out of that list. I got a townread on Eran and my scumread on WBG is stronger than the various different reads I got on VE. I get why people think he's scummy, but again I'm assuming there's only one mafia vet which makes him town to me right now. 4) Yeah I get what you're talking about when talking about the more unknows players we could lynch. Just feels like lynching into an unknown entitiy that's build up by a bunch of faceless guys. They're all somewhat scummy but not really that much simplpy because there's so little to analyze. Feels like randomly choosing a lurker if we want to lynch into that entity. Original Message From strongandbig: I don't think trying to lynch wbg today is a good idea for town atmosphere. Like I said yesterday, if he doesn't start catching scum soon I will try to lynch him again day 3. Erandorr also mason'd me. I think that is a null tell because if he's really frustrated town he would mason the person who agrees with him to try and figure out the opposition; if he's scum he might mason me since I agree with him and am more likely to be persuaded he's town. I plan on also telling erandorr you mason'ed me, just fyi, but idk about if it matters to tell the thread. Anyway I think erandorr's town for a few reasons. (1) if he's scum and wbg is town, his wbg fight makes no sense - who in their right mind would go and say "okay my plan as scum this game is to get into a pissing contest with the best town player bwahaha!" (2) if they're both scum it makes no sense, it brought so much attention onto them and would have to be the most terrible scum play ever; plus erandorr seems very honest about lynching wbg so i don't think they're scum buddies. (3) if wbg is town then his town read on erandorr can probably be trusted since it would have been such an easy omgus to make. That said, he's not one of my top four or five town reads by any means and I'm definitely willing to consider cases against him. I think VE is scum. Talismania's case on him was pretty much omgus but it was a very convincing omgus; ve's case on talismania is so terrible that it really does seem like cherry picking. I also think anyone who's played a game or two with talismania should know that his trying to get setup information and character name claims isn't alignment indicative, he always pushes some kind of plan like that as any alignment. I also think VE is scum beacuse for him to say he got a town read on wbg from their pms makes no sense at all to me. I just can't see it. He also didn't "go yell at wbg in pms" like he told the thread he was. In fact he barely talked to wbg about wbg's outing him at all. I don't know whether that makes wbg scum also, since ve could just be buddying him to try and get him to think he's town. I still think wbg is scum until proven otherwise, but not because of a VE-wbg connection theory. As for other people we could lynch, there's a frustrating number of people who are both lurking and doing so scummily. Broodking is clearly reading the thread but not posting, Glasse keeps popping in with pointless tidbits but not atually contributing to the thread, and I still think BioSC was scummy around the prplhz vote and hasn't cleared himself. The problem is that none of those three look much more scummy to me than the other, and I think the odds are small that they're all scum. That makes it dangerous to try and lynch one of them imo, since it'll be easy for the actual scum team to say "let's lynch that scummy lurker instead of this one" and get the heat off of the one who actually is scum. So I kind of agree with whoever it was (you or tali I think) who said you need a lot of data to have a good read of players like that. I kinda think we should be lynching VE today, but I could go for one of those scummy lurkers (nb: different from just general lurkers, there are some lurky noobs in this game that I really think are town) if someone presented a case that really differentiated them. The thing is if there's just a bandwagon on a random one I fear that it would be unlikely to hit scum. Original Message From Toadesstern: want to give me a basic idea of your thoughts right now? Not sure if I'm confident to lynch into VE / WBG / Eran today, so I'd rather lynch someone else. Original Message From strongandbig: hhhokay. Why me? I can only do TL PMs when I'm at work but I can try and skype IM or something tonight if you want, or TL PMs are good also Original Message From Toadesstern: Sup, we're masoned. Skype log with toad: + Show Spoiler + [9:28:41 PM] Toad: hey [9:28:49 PM] Strongandbig: hey [9:28:53 PM] Toad: why is it 21:28 in the us? [9:28:57 PM] Strongandbig: im just reading the last 20 or 30 posts [9:29:01 PM] Strongandbig: i'm in switzerland [9:29:06 PM] Toad: oooh you're the guy [9:29:07 PM] Strongandbig: yeah [9:29:10 PM] Toad: at cern? [9:29:11 PM] Toad: awesome :D [9:29:20 PM] Strongandbig: yeah [9:29:42 PM] Strongandbig: why does tali think that solstice will be a target [9:29:43 PM] Strongandbig: he's like [9:29:47 PM] Strongandbig: a super random guy who never posts [9:29:48 PM] Toad: i have no idea [9:29:51 PM] Strongandbig: even if his reads are correct [9:29:57 PM] Strongandbig: it'd be like blue sniping grush [9:29:58 PM] Strongandbig: useless [9:30:17 PM] Toad: i'd rather put him as vig target than as protection target lol [9:30:47 PM] Toad: same about talis although the effort he's putting in this game is making me feel unsure about it [9:30:58 PM] Strongandbig: so the thing about talis is [9:31:09 PM] Strongandbig: the grush shot would have been so ridiculously suboptimal of scum [9:31:17 PM] Toad: yeah [9:31:17 PM] Strongandbig: that i have trouble thinking they didn't double stack sloosh [9:31:27 PM] Toad: no way did mafia shoot grush [9:31:40 PM] Strongandbig: the only reason to do that instead of shooting sloosh and you or ve or wbg (whichever is / are town) [9:31:47 PM] Strongandbig: is if they thought a medic might be on him [9:31:51 PM] Strongandbig: which points towards tali being town [9:31:52 PM] Strongandbig: imo [9:32:02 PM] Strongandbig: i know wifom etc [9:32:15 PM] Strongandbig: but who holds an NK so they can wifom maybe having medic directed [9:32:24 PM] Toad: why does it point towards talis being town? [9:32:27 PM] Toad: I'm not getting the connection there [9:32:36 PM] Strongandbig: because imo if he hadn't been explaining why medics should be on sloosh [9:32:42 PM] Strongandbig: scum wouldn't have made that conclusoin [9:33:01 PM] Strongandbig: at least if i was scum and I knew that wbg/ve/toad etc were town i would have assumed the medic would have been on one of them [9:33:04 PM] Toad: I told people to protect myself and sloOsh and leave out VE / WBG / eran, maybe even myself as well [9:33:16 PM] Strongandbig: hmm okay [9:33:20 PM] Strongandbig: i guess i didnt remember that [9:33:28 PM] Strongandbig: anyway idk about tali; i thought he was scummy at first [9:33:42 PM] Strongandbig: but his points on ve actually made sense to me [9:33:48 PM] Strongandbig: that's when i started thinking maybe he was town [9:33:52 PM] Toad: yeah i thought he was scummy as well early on but I'm getting really bad feelings when thinking about lynching him [9:34:10 PM] Strongandbig: okay so here's the thing about bugs [9:34:28 PM] Strongandbig: i feel like throwing that kind of tantrum as a lie would have been just as bad as lying about having irl issues that kept you from posting [9:34:37 PM] Strongandbig: it's like, he actulaly even blamed his tantrum on irl issues [9:34:49 PM] Strongandbig: and i dont think he would lie about irl issues just to win a game [9:34:53 PM] Strongandbig: but other than that [9:34:58 PM] Strongandbig: everything he did screams scum [9:35:20 PM] Toad: well I never lie when talking about RL-stuff either, no matter if I'm town or mafia [9:35:24 PM] Strongandbig: yeah i agree [9:35:26 PM] Toad: but you can always make something up [9:35:51 PM] Toad: like I had my LA-exam two days ago , was busy but could have posted way more [9:35:58 PM] Strongandbig: okay so a different thing about ve [9:36:09 PM] Strongandbig: what in the heck in that pm chain would have made him think wbg was town [9:36:23 PM] Strongandbig: like, think it strongly enough to come out in the thread and try to redirect the d1 lynch [9:36:39 PM] Strongandbig: that just, i don't really buy it [9:36:53 PM] Toad: so you consider VE to be more scummy than wbg? [9:37:13 PM] Toad: I agree that VE looks weird and I don't really have him as town read but wbg just looks way worse [9:37:25 PM] Strongandbig: wbg looks terrible [9:37:30 PM] Strongandbig: but [9:37:31 PM] Strongandbig: umm [9:37:37 PM] Strongandbig: yeah so here's what it is [9:37:45 PM] Strongandbig: i've always been pretty impressed with wbg as a player on both sides [9:37:53 PM] Strongandbig: i think he's a pretty smart and perceptive person [9:38:11 PM] Strongandbig: and if his strategy as scum was to lie about having problems irl, risk a modkill, and fake ragequit [9:38:17 PM] Strongandbig: i would just be so disappointed in TL mafia [9:38:23 PM] Strongandbig: so i want that to not be true [9:38:41 PM] Toad: i don't think he knew about the not voting himself [9:38:59 PM] Toad: so I don't really consider that part at all [9:39:33 PM] Toad: I do think exaggerating RL-issues and rage-quitting could be a strategy as well [9:39:43 PM] Toad: and it just feels awfully like storm mafia [9:39:50 PM] Strongandbig: i didn't play storm mafia [9:40:16 PM] Toad: I called him mafia d1 and d2 all time and somehow he managed to manipulate people for 3 days in a row to lynch who HE wanted to lynch if people posted a list [9:40:41 PM] Strongandbig: oh right that was the game he was talking about in the mafia theory quote of his i posted d1 [9:40:46 PM] Toad: like we had a list with 4 people d2, 3 of them being mafia, bugs gets in there "yeah I'd be happy to lynch *townie*" and everyone is okay with it although WBG was on the list himself [9:41:12 PM] Toad: it's just the same thing over again [9:41:36 PM] Toad: I said I'd be happy to lynch prplhz or bugs d1, bugs says prplhz is 95% mafia and we do that [9:41:57 PM] Toad: d2 somehow ended up being a eran lynch which was the most retarded thing I've ever seen [9:42:14 PM] Toad: and now some guy said he wants to lynch me instead of bugs lol [9:42:55 PM] Strongandbig: well to be fair you do keep excluding yourself from the "mason balance" list thing, remember how you said one of the vet masons had to be scum? [9:42:58 PM] Toad: lol it was s0lstice who said that [9:43:03 PM] Strongandbig: and you thought it was errandor or ve [9:43:04 PM] Toad: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=352668¤tpage=57#1124 [9:43:10 PM] Strongandbig: but you are also a vet mason [9:43:22 PM] Strongandbig: i mean, that does remind me of what you did in mtg mafia right? [9:43:31 PM] Toad: nah I never said a vet has to be mafia, did I ? [9:43:40 PM] Strongandbig: oh right not a vet mason [9:43:43 PM] Strongandbig: just a vet in general [9:43:51 PM] Strongandbig: i was the one who thought mafia would have made a vet their mason [9:43:59 PM] Strongandbig: wait was that tali or you [9:44:01 PM] Strongandbig: shit 1 sec [9:44:03 PM] Toad: yeah vet in general (goon or GF) + medium-player mason makes way more sense [9:44:39 PM] Strongandbig: okay wait that was you yeah [9:44:40 PM] Strongandbig: anyway [9:44:51 PM] Toad: at least that's what I'd do if I were mafia because people WILL talk about "well if I were mafia I'd give the mason to a vet", so a low-skill guy being mason would be perfectly safe [9:45:33 PM] Strongandbig: tbf you did that in mtg mafia, you were like "someone in this group must be scum" when you were in that group, and then we lynched everyone else in that group and then you were like "why would I say that if I was scum, then you would just kill me for being in that group" [9:45:34 PM] Strongandbig: lol [9:45:41 PM] Strongandbig: anyway that's a good poitn [9:45:43 PM] Strongandbig: about strategy [9:45:54 PM] Strongandbig: but i can still see VE wanting to be the mafia mason, for sure [9:46:01 PM] Toad: actually I thought about mtg as well [9:46:14 PM] Toad: and was scared people might consider that game and just policy lynch me ;D [9:46:27 PM] Strongandbig: haha if we're policy lynching you are like way down the list [9:46:32 PM] Strongandbig: 1. wbg [9:46:36 PM] Strongandbig: 2. glasse [9:46:45 PM] Strongandbig: 3. [like 4 other lurkers] [9:46:53 PM] Strongandbig: 4. grush just for being grush [9:46:56 PM] Strongandbig: 5. mrzentor [9:46:59 PM] Toad: yeah I thought more of a d1 policy lynch [9:47:00 PM] Strongandbig: 6. toad [9:47:23 PM] Strongandbig: wait why a d1 policy lynch because of mtg mafia? [9:47:35 PM] Toad: because noone was talking about me [9:48:04 PM] Toad: considering the playerbase that means they got me as town (VE and wbg don't talk about townreads) [9:48:33 PM] Toad: so as I was really manipulative and everyone considered me to be town in mtg I was afraid that some guy might just start some paranoia on me [9:48:45 PM] Strongandbig: oh [9:48:47 PM] Strongandbig: that's like [9:48:51 PM] Strongandbig: incredibly convoluted [9:49:05 PM] Toad: I guess [9:49:39 PM] Toad: still it was really strange nobody brought it up [9:49:54 PM] Toad: I thought it would be an easy way for mafia to discredit me [9:50:02 PM] Toad: and you're the first one to mention it [9:51:29 PM] Toad: I guess you stopping to type means you consider that scummy?  [9:51:45 PM] Strongandbig: huh what [9:51:48 PM] Strongandbig: oh no i was posting [9:51:52 PM] Strongandbig: about wbg [9:51:57 PM] Strongandbig: just the same stuff i tolx you [9:52:05 PM] Toad: ah saw it [9:52:08 PM] Toad: reading [9:52:13 PM] Strongandbig: it's not really relevan [9:52:18 PM] Strongandbig: just letting off some steam [9:52:25 PM] Toad: oh that yeah [9:52:26 PM] Strongandbig: i'm still pretty pissed about that day 1 fiasco [9:52:40 PM] Strongandbig: especially how he kept calling me bad even though his play was the scummiest shit ever [9:52:49 PM] Toad: yeah [9:52:53 PM] Toad: he does that a lot [9:53:33 PM] Toad: I just really don't think town wbg would stop playing like this and still be alive right now [9:54:01 PM] Toad: if he really was town he'd either start playing or get himself killed on purpose because he has to know that we're going to lynch him [9:54:19 PM] Strongandbig: also wtf is with no warning or modkill for hassy and biosc? [9:54:27 PM] Strongandbig: i hate when hosts do that. [9:54:28 PM] Toad: no idea [9:54:36 PM] Toad: BC is really lazy [9:54:38 PM] Strongandbig: like even if they are both town we'd be better off with them modkkilled imo [9:54:44 PM] Toad: yeah lol [9:54:54 PM] Toad: I SO want to see hassy flip [9:55:03 PM] Toad: pretty much no matter of alignment [9:55:08 PM] Strongandbig: like i thought there was no way he's town [9:55:26 PM] Strongandbig: but i've got this heuristic that lurking scum usually doesn't let themselves get modkilled [9:55:36 PM] Toad: yeah [9:55:37 PM] Strongandbig: unless it's someone like mattchew who plays scum so much that he actually gets bored of it [9:56:04 PM] Toad: I'm really not sure about all those medium players [9:56:12 PM] Strongandbig: yeah [9:56:27 PM] Strongandbig: you mean medium activity or experience leve? [9:56:33 PM] Toad: they al got some things that make them bad somehow but they all got some things that make them look good as well [9:56:37 PM] Toad: both [9:56:59 PM] Toad: but I was referring to experience [9:57:21 PM] Toad: I've got a couple of strong reads but all those maju's, bke's and guys like that are so hard to read [9:57:50 PM] Strongandbig: xsebts last post was pretty terrible [9:57:55 PM] Strongandbig: wait maju is in this game? [9:58:03 PM] Toad: according to my sheet yeah [9:58:12 PM] Toad: don't know if he got replaced though [9:58:21 PM] Toad: still got "ghost_403" instead of zentor as well^^ [9:58:46 PM] Strongandbig: yeah he got replaced [9:58:49 PM] Strongandbig: solstice maybe? [9:59:02 PM] Toad: has to be, he's not in my sheet [9:59:18 PM] Toad: I've really got so few reads on those guys [9:59:31 PM] Toad: I got glase down as slightly townish for some reaso I don't even remember [9:59:33 PM] Strongandbig: glasse [9:59:35 PM] Toad: lazer is probably town [9:59:35 PM] Strongandbig: seriously [9:59:39 PM] Strongandbig: you gotta be kidding me [9:59:56 PM] Toad: yeah I've got him as green so far [10:00:06 PM] Strongandbig: unless the reason is something like "no scum could actually be that scummy" [10:00:24 PM] Strongandbig: like he just pops in immediately after every lynch to make a one liner and then ignore everyone asking him to make reads or whatever [10:00:46 PM] Toad: yeah i know [10:00:52 PM] Toad: but I actually liked his d1 play [10:00:59 PM] Toad: it really looked townish to me [10:01:22 PM] Toad: he was the guy who pointed out that WBG might be just fooling around when outing Eran and VE [10:01:36 PM] Toad: and prplhz was really confused about that and I didn't mind that at all [10:02:04 PM] Strongandbig: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=352668&user=86645¤tpage=2 [10:02:10 PM] Strongandbig: think glasse is breadcrumbing vig? [10:02:25 PM] Strongandbig: that would be terrible by BC, let scum pick their PRs but give town's to rando's [10:02:58 PM] Toad: I'm not really watching for breadcrumbs, what post? [10:03:07 PM] Strongandbig: oh just that [10:03:12 PM] Strongandbig: he keeps talking about the vig [10:03:19 PM] Strongandbig: while ignoring everything else going on in the thread [10:03:24 PM] Toad: oh [10:03:24 PM] Strongandbig: i guess not really a breadcrumb [10:03:44 PM] Strongandbig: but the thing is that's about the only way I could figure him playing like that as town [10:03:56 PM] Strongandbig: I mean this post [10:03:57 PM] Toad: "maybe he was a vig who shot grush" is what you're saying? [10:03:58 PM] Strongandbig: " Not gonna lie, my plan is quite boring this game. I shall not do it again." [10:04:02 PM] Strongandbig: yeah [10:04:38 PM] Toad: well there are no mafia vigs^^ [10:04:50 PM] Toad: if he really is a vig that's not on purpose, that's for sure [10:04:54 PM] Strongandbig: yeah [10:05:03 PM] Strongandbig: okay so if we're looking into lurkers [10:06:08 PM] Strongandbig: before when I read the whole thread at once i thought the scummiest ones were glasse, broodking, and biosc, and jinglehell [10:06:34 PM] Toad: jinglehell is really bold [10:06:40 PM] Strongandbig: jinglehell is a mason right/ [10:06:42 PM] Toad: I don't think he'd play like that as mafia [10:06:49 PM] Strongandbig: but broodking always looks scummy [10:06:52 PM] Strongandbig: i think [10:06:57 PM] Strongandbig: and so does biosc [10:07:00 PM] Strongandbig: they're just terrible [10:07:04 PM] Strongandbig: like some of these lurkers are decent [10:07:21 PM] Toad: I don't remember broodking being this bad [10:07:22 PM] Strongandbig: synystyr, lazermonkey, hopeless [10:07:24 PM] Strongandbig: they try [10:07:30 PM] Toad: hier looks like a decent shot if I were a vigi right now [10:07:37 PM] Strongandbig: but broodking and biosc? they've actually played a bunch [10:07:42 PM] Strongandbig: and are just terrible and don't care [10:08:32 PM] Toad: if I had to rank people (vets not included) from nice vig target #1 to not that good it'd be something like this [10:08:44 PM] Toad: #1: hier [10:08:50 PM] Toad: #2 zentor [10:08:54 PM] Toad: #3 biosc [10:08:59 PM] Toad: #4 maju [10:09:10 PM] Toad: maybe bke #5? [10:09:22 PM] Strongandbig: maju is out of game [10:09:28 PM] Toad: they can't all be mafia though and it's incredible hard to differentiate between them [10:09:28 PM] Strongandbig: replaced [10:09:40 PM] Toad: yeah the solis guy [10:09:44 PM] Toad: brb changing that [10:10:00 PM] Strongandbig: could talismania be SK? [10:10:03 PM] Strongandbig: is there an sk in this game? [10:10:13 PM] Toad: I don't think there is lol [10:10:21 PM] Strongandbig: like his play is so wildly swinging between making a lot of sense and making none [10:10:51 PM] Toad: yes it is [10:11:01 PM] Toad: I was so sure he's got to be mafia d1 [10:11:15 PM] Toad: n1-start of d2 I thought he's looking better [10:11:18 PM] Toad: and now I'm back to mafia [10:11:50 PM] Toad: but I've got hassy, zeph and wbg as mafia in my sheet as well. Including talis would make it alread 4 [10:12:17 PM] Strongandbig: why zeph? [10:12:35 PM] Strongandbig: tbh the cases by him have been so random that I haven't paid too much attention [10:12:40 PM] Toad: he's awfully focusing on the wrong things when quoting people [10:12:56 PM] Toad: and always manages to someone to post really scummy [10:13:24 PM] Toad: remember when he told everyone "guys, it's obvious this eran vs WBG vs VE fight has to be 3 townies fighting and there's no mafia in there" [10:13:31 PM] Toad: what kind of townie would make such a post [10:13:54 PM] Strongandbig: a townie who thinks they're a lot better than they actually are [10:14:36 PM] Toad: if you think someone is better than what you see, shouldn't you want to lynch them? [10:14:45 PM] Strongandbig: oh no i meant [10:14:53 PM] Strongandbig: he thinks he's good [10:14:54 PM] Strongandbig: not me [10:14:55 PM] Toad: oh yeah [10:14:59 PM] Toad: got it [10:15:20 PM] Toad: if that's what he thinks he should have targeted someone else though [10:15:29 PM] Toad: it's the same thing WBG does [10:15:42 PM] Toad: he pops out a bunch of townreads out of nowhere telling people Eran and VE are both town [10:15:54 PM] Toad: but completly ignores what that means to his scumreads [10:16:17 PM] Toad: if wbg really thought eran and VE are town he should have been all over me or prplhz d1, but he wasn't. Same goes for zeph [10:17:18 PM] Strongandbig: yeah so i guess here's where I am right now [10:17:22 PM] Strongandbig: we can't not lynch wbg tomorrw [10:17:29 PM] Strongandbig: like, several things [10:17:33 PM] Strongandbig: his play is scummy as shit [10:17:48 PM] Strongandbig: and he's shown no sign of trying to make up for it [10:17:54 PM] Strongandbig: despite having like three days irl to cool off [10:18:13 PM] Strongandbig: plus if he's not helping town then the potential downside of a scum wbg far outweighs the small upside [10:18:19 PM] Toad: not to mention that he really plays like a mafia wants to play to look like he's doing when he actually posts something [10:18:35 PM] Toad: when wbg is posting he's always talking about some townreads, nothing else [10:18:40 PM] Strongandbig: it's just would he really play so badly as scum? [10:18:46 PM] Toad: those are all things that are incredible easy to talk about as mafia [10:19:02 PM] Toad: well he survived 2 days so far [10:19:07 PM] Strongandbig: yeah [10:19:14 PM] Strongandbig: i don't think we can afford not to lynch him [10:19:19 PM] Toad: agree [10:19:22 PM] Strongandbig: but I also think VE looks like net scum [10:19:31 PM] Strongandbig: and other than them [10:19:46 PM] Toad: VE really depends on wether or not we've got more masons and if hassy is mafia [10:19:59 PM] Strongandbig: broodkign and hassy [10:20:00 PM] Strongandbig: i guess [10:20:13 PM] Strongandbig: so that means for me it's wbg, ve, broodking, hassy [10:20:15 PM] Toad: If hassy and WBG are both mafia I really doubt VE is mafia as well [10:20:21 PM] Strongandbig: true [10:20:34 PM] Strongandbig: well it's BC though [10:20:40 PM] Strongandbig: i don't know him that well [10:20:49 PM] Strongandbig: but he seeems like he might have skewed ideas on balance [10:20:58 PM] Toad: yeah it's bc alright but what about the mason between VE and wbg? [10:21:20 PM] Toad: wbg ragequitted and isn't playing anymore because of eran (or the other way around idk) [10:21:21 PM] Strongandbig: yeah i don't think they're scum together [10:21:25 PM] Toad: do you really think he would fake that? [10:21:27 PM] Strongandbig: but i think one of them is for sure su [10:21:29 PM] Strongandbig: scum [10:21:33 PM] Toad: yes [10:21:39 PM] Toad: and wbg just makes way more sense [10:21:49 PM] Strongandbig: im not sure about that [10:21:50 PM] Strongandbig: like [10:21:55 PM] Strongandbig: there is a possible explanation for all his behavior [10:22:01 PM] Toad: not to mention that I'd hate myself forever if I had to find out he is mafia and I ended up lynching VE [10:22:04 PM] Strongandbig: yeah [10:22:07 PM] Strongandbig: that's where i agree [10:22:12 PM] Strongandbig: if ve wins this because wbg shitted up the town [10:22:13 PM] Strongandbig: then fine [10:22:18 PM] Strongandbig: if wbg wins this while shitting up the town [10:22:21 PM] Strongandbig: then fuck everything [10:22:39 PM] Toad: yeah [10:23:05 PM] Toad: but all those other mafias out there are still so hard to figure out [10:23:20 PM] Strongandbig: yeah [10:23:25 PM] Strongandbig: its so hard to put pressure on them [10:23:27 PM] Strongandbig: actually [10:23:35 PM] Strongandbig: i wouldn't count out xsebt [10:23:38 PM] Strongandbig: looking at his filter [10:23:38 PM] Toad: even if wbg is mafia, mafia still has 2KP until they're reduced to 2 players 8( [10:23:44 PM] Strongandbig: could be a shitty us [10:23:47 PM] Strongandbig: bus [10:23:49 PM] Strongandbig: by bugs [10:23:55 PM] Strongandbig: or if bugs is town [10:23:58 PM] Strongandbig: then he stumbled on a mafia [10:24:03 PM] Strongandbig: but xsebts filter looks scum to me [10:24:30 PM] Strongandbig: i'm gonna play some civ 4, i'll try and write up some stuff in an hour or so before i go to bed [11:34:05 PM] Strongandbig: i guess we should post these pm logs before one of us gets nk'ed [11:34:19 PM] Toad: thught about it as well [11:34:30 PM] Toad: but I don't feel like staying up until 5 am [11:34:32 PM] Toad: or 4 am [11:34:37 PM] Strongandbig: yeah [11:34:40 PM] Strongandbig: me neither [11:35:07 PM] Strongandbig: i think i'm kinda likely to get killed anyway, regardless of my reads i'm like the only person who posts a lot in the thread and yet isn't called scum [11:35:12 PM] Toad: honestly I wouldn't mind taking the risk that at least one of us survives to post it [11:35:26 PM] Toad: I think either you or I are going to die tonight [11:35:30 PM] Strongandbig: yeah [11:35:38 PM] Strongandbig: well is there any reason to not post it now? [11:35:39 PM] Strongandbig: like [11:35:41 PM] Toad: and if my townread on you is wrong this game is over anyways :D [11:35:51 PM] Strongandbig: i think scum are going to kill us or not regardless of what's in the logs [11:35:56 PM] Strongandbig: it's not like there's anything groundbreaking [11:36:12 PM] Toad: yeah i don't see a problem with posting them [11:36:20 PM] Strongandbig: kk i'ma do that then go to bed [11:36:32 PM] Toad: especially as we disagreed about the lower-experience guys quite a lot lol | ||
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On August 09 2012 06:31 strongandbig wrote: Well I'm gonna post something. I think tomorrow's lynch should be wbg. His play was straight-up scummy for the vast majority of day 1, and even given a day 2 with little to no pressure he didn't do anything to help out the town. I also think VE is scum. Out of the lurkers, broodking is likely scum imo. Active lurking, paying attention to the thread but not contributing to it. Hassybaby and biosc should be modkilled imo but we can discuss that after the game. But honestly, even if they're both town imo the town would be better off with them dead; I'm just not convinced we can afford to waste our lynch on them. I thought for a long time that Hassy was scum, since he's played enough to be in a different category from the other lurkers; but in general I think lurky scum tend to play enough to not get modkilled, although I've seen that not be the case. | ||
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On August 09 2012 10:18 wherebugsgo wrote: thank fucking god fuck along now, and I'll fuck right along with you. Second time killed by scum! Feels good man! Town, I hope you get the hero you need, because the hero you deserve is something like Grush and Zentor's retarded baby. | ||
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yall biscuitheads | ||
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I called out glasse in that log with toad haha also I totally thought marv was scum when lazermonkey got shot instead of him, wtf. | ||
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We're assuming he didn't understand how masons work, or something, but I don't think he's said anything about that yet. That did end up confirming toad I guess, but it also got Talismania lynched/shot/whatever since he was a miller. I don't think it had that much of a giant effect on the game, but we should definitely talk about it and I wish xsebt would post about it. There's the issue of Talismania finding the scum QT, but given that (a) there was just a thread about QTs being googleable, and (b) he only found it after he died, I don't think that was a problem. I mean, if he was using that to get info about scum, would he really have posted in it? Another thing - the model OP puts the burden of keeping scum communication secret on the scum team. It specifically says that other players may be more tech savvy than you are and may infiltrate your communications. So even if Talismania did find the scum QT and get info that influenced the game, I don't think we can regard that as "cheating." It's specifically allowed for in the rules. I for one know that I won't be using any gooleable QTs as scum in the future, if I ever roll scum. (I mean, if it weren't for the shitshow this game became I would be a little unhappy about the imbalance between mafia getting to choose who gets their PRs, while town's PRs all went to random newbies and most of our best townies were millers. I mean wbg, sloosh and talismania all millers? What was the thought process there?) As for the question of "the integrity of the game." I don't really know what's being referred to by wbg in that post, if it's not the xsebt PM or the scum QT finding. If there's something other than that, it should be put out in the open imo instead of just "some players were involved in cheating" being the statement. Looking at how the scum team died:
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Although tbh I don't think marvellosity was doing that very effectively - imo it was the scumslip that bke found that sealed the deal, up until that point I would've lynched marv first over you had I been alive. | ||
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On August 17 2012 22:54 marvellosity wrote: why do people give such little credit to actions taken :< if i were mafia i would have had to have taken the decision to start bussing people hard in a situation where it was totally unnecessary. it makes so little sense to me how people could view it that way. it's totally your scum meta though being a huge jerk to town and bussing all your crappy teammates it's the marvellosity way | ||
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basically google can't index it unless you put the link to it somewhere google can get to so like if you put the qt link in a google docs spreadsheet, google can index the qt or if you put it anywhere on a public page. but if you actually keep the qt url secret and don't put it in any google docs, then google can't find it. | ||
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