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I Can't Believe it's not Themed MiniMafia
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Mattchew
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no zentor means no policy lynch based on names for me. | ||
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On July 12 2012 10:38 Risen wrote: It's cool. It's nothing compared to what I handled from igrok my last game. Anywho, I was just pointing out I found it odd you would try and push people onto "lurkers" so early on. I don't think anything about you. There's nothing to go on right now. I don't think that post was in your favor, though. He wasn't pushing lurkers he was pushing people that posted that sounded excited to participate and post and then didn't. | ||
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But I love his effort, just hate reading EVERYTHING he posts. Anyway I want to hear more from austin his first post doesnt sit well with me | ||
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On July 12 2012 22:41 marvellosity wrote: Matt, while you're here - what do you make of gonzaw? He seems to be making stuff out of nothing, but it could just be provoking conversation. I guess normally at the start of day 1 he has setup shit to ramble on about, which he does not here. he is trying really really hard, and once again he is explaining his entire thought process. I dont think i have ever seen him as scum, but this is the exactly how he plays as town | ||
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On July 12 2012 22:45 marvellosity wrote: If you're interested, check out Liar where he was scum. Incredibly verbose there too can't i just be blinded and not have to read 1000 pages of filter to see the difference between him as scum and him as town | ||
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oh shit they can read this too cant they | ||
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On July 12 2012 23:47 s0Lstice wrote: Mattchew- his question about how many scum there are read to me as a mini-gambit. Since it is variable, only scum are going to know the exact number. the second post is him being excited about the ability to use PMs. maybe gonzaw is clever, but is he ballsy? because it's pretty ballsy as scum to be pro-active about getting a PM circle going, especially considering how young the game was at the time. lol, so wouldnt scum be more aware of the number of scum and feel the need to say they don't know why would scum not be excited to use PMs with townies. | ||
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On July 13 2012 00:00 talismania wrote: you know for all the shit that plan predictably gets at least it never fails to generate a few pages of discussion. Btw the only time people ever followed a version of it was in bastard 2, but that was because I had a gun and no one else did (and it worked then). The point of it is and always has been to see how people react to it or comply with it, not who they accuse or whatever. anyhoo I think it's kind of hilarious that literally everyone commented on it. I mean speaking of scum blending in "I agree with everyone else that talis' plan isn't good" from like ten people. And the only one who didn't go "oh that's shit" was gonzaw. Which to be honest makes me lean town on him - he comes out with three names right off the bat for a decent reason at least for that early in the game. I feel a scum player would have been more cautious. Marv shitting on the plan was fairly predictable. I read his "let's lynch talis" for it though as more out of pique than as part of a cunning scum plan though. hey what about me! | ||
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On July 12 2012 10:46 Mattchew wrote: Also, talis has the worst plan ever with his 3 people thing. That just allows people to half ass push some stupid reads and then connections theories run wild and everything turns to shit this is more reasoning then everyone else gave as to why its bad, its just not in long-winded gonzaw essay style | ||
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On July 13 2012 00:43 talismania wrote: Reactions to talismania's Shitty Plan (for those who care) + Show Spoiler + marvellosity On July 12 2012 09:47 marvellosity wrote: naw, I'm not killing anyone based on one post right at the beginning of the game (especially as pregame was quite active/friendly, it spilled over) I'd rather lynch talis for his never-ending bullshit on listing names and reasons. Seriously, 24 hours into day 1 and we're supposed to come up with reasons on 3 different people for why they might be scum? It's just nonsense. Or... wait for it... I have an idea! If someone says something a person finds scummy, they can call them out and bring it to the thread! Wow, marv, you say - an amazing plan! People shouldn't be 'forced' to make effort, the making of the effort willingly is what helps gives us our reads on people. Predictably shits on it, suggests policy lynching me out of his annoyance that I keep proposing these dumb plans. gonzaw On July 12 2012 09:36 gonzaw wrote: So, if the lynch was right now I'd want to kill one of these 3 guys: You can see the recurring theme in all 3 (just 1 post, promising something/appearing they are eager to start but not doing anything else later). marv, talismania, anybody active, what do you think about these guys? If you had to kill one of them which one would you choose and why? (if you don't want to kill anyone then say so). Also this guy could die too: But at least he put a little bit more effort (although that's not town-telling) Dropbear and Milton haven't even posted, but well we can't do anything about it. Actually follows the plan - as I said seems rather townie. Especially the timing. Mattchew On July 12 2012 10:46 Mattchew wrote: Also, talis has the worst plan ever with his 3 people thing. That just allows people to half ass push some stupid reads and then connections theories run wild and everything turns to shit shits on it solstice On July 12 2012 11:04 s0Lstice wrote: Keirathi, assuming you are still around... why so verbose about lurkers? what do you think of talismania's plan? I actually don't see him reacting to it at all yet he asks keirathi about it. Interesting. He did react to gonzaw's post reacting to mine. austinmcc On July 12 2012 11:33 austinmcc wrote: That's because there's basically nothing to my first post except "Millers claim," which isn't helpful. What I can add is that I think talismania's 3-case plan is bad, but that seems to be the general sentiment. Forcing arbitrary requirements on everyone isn't really going to help us, and is going to clog up the thread later. People are going to make halfhearted cases to try to reach that number, someone will inevitably only find 1-2 people scummy and we'd end up in some "does x not making 3 cases = scummy?" discussion, and we also might end up lynching people that EVERYONE finds a little bit scummy rather than someone that a few people have a strong scumread on for good reasoning. Can also add that I haven't played with gonzaw, but I've obsed his recent games. Anyone here feel like they do a good job reading him, and if so, can you post some tips? I've found that I almost always end up reading him as scum, because he is active enough and posts enough that I keep finding scummy things to latch on to. Had him scum at the end of liar game just prior to the katina lynch, but also found him really scummy in the recent MTG because I felt like some of the plans he pushed hard were anti-town (check the obsqt early on, although I didn't post much there). So...any magical tricks for getting the right read on Gonzaw? Actually this reads scummy again on the second go-round too. He says he's about to "add" something but literally just copies/expands on what marv said and doesn't add anything at all. Keirathi On July 12 2012 11:54 Keirathi wrote: Sorry was getting dinner. I was verbose because I have some shared experience with sciberbia, whom I was replying to. I know that most (all?) of his TL mafia experience was in newbie games, and the dynamic is just different when you can assume that people know how to play the game. As far as talismania's plan, I feel like it makes it too easy for mafia to blend in. The more townies you have making arguments against other townies, the easier you can push mislynches and not have to take any blame for them. There are other things wrong with it, but Mattchew and austin beat me to it. No need rehashing what they said. Mmm I think this is innocuous. He might not even have responded if he hadn't been asked to. DropBear On July 12 2012 15:18 DropBear wrote: This is silly. This isn't going to happen and would just waste time. On the majority lynch, day 1 this tends to be a right kerfuffle. I can't think of any system that has ever worked on day 1 in games I have been part of. So fuck a system, we deal with it when the time comes. There should be solid candidates by then anyway. Actually this doesn't sit that well with me at all. Conversation had started to move on and then he brings it back to my plan and says the same shit everyone else did. I also don't like his misrepresentation of my views on the roleblocker's use of their power. strongandbig On July 12 2012 16:51 strongandbig wrote: Hey bros For people who weren't in ssb or mtg mafias, just wanted to let you guys know I am currently in Europe, where I don't have a cell phone data plan. This means I can only post when I have wifi, which is a change from my normal method. I've also been busy at work so please don't expect much from me before 8pm CET. Now for serious stuff: I'm going to be watching marv like a motherfuking hawk. I think hosts tend to try to "balance" games sometimes by tweaking their scum team selection; however, that can and has led to extra info from town through balance speculation. Marvellosity makes an extremely tempting player for hosts to do this kind of balancing, because his scum play is empirically very good, but he isn't a "veteran" so he's not likely to be the subject of balance speculation. I also suspect bugs of doing this kind of balancing. + Show Spoiler [reasons, from wheel of fortune.] + The last of his c++ games I played in was wheel of fortune. That was a stacked game and I was one of the worst players in it, although I did eventually manage to figure out the scum team (and got shot for having correct reads before I could push some of them). With the benefit of hindsight, that scum team looks almost perfectly balanced for the player base. Radfield was town, ace was scum. VE and Forumite were both good players, but only on the edge of being full-on vets. I firmly believe that town would have won that game if Radfield hadn't decided to use a DT check on Ace, who was godfather. That kind of closeness is the sign of a well-balanced game; and the odds that both town and scum would have their best player as their best power role are very small from pure chance. So what does this mean? I am NOT proposing to policy lynch marvellosity; if he's town he can be a great asset, and besides that's totally against the spirit of the game. What I AM saying is that I think when someone points out something scummy he does, we should take it pretty seriously. Pure chance wouldn't explain why he has rolled scum in something like half his games since our first game together (noob 6) while I have rolled it once - him being good and me not does explain that. NOW: having told you why you should pay attention, I'm going to point out something scummy marv has done. That thing is: propose/say he would be okay with lynching Talismania. Talismania's plan IS anti town. When Ace is host and he tells an obs QT how good a plan is for scum, you better believe he knows what he's talking about. Systematic case proposing plans give scum an excuse to make shitty reads and blend in, because everyone is making shitty cases and dumb reads. That kind of plan dilutes good information and adds bad information. HOWEVER: Talismania proposes this plan as town. All the time. Like, every game. Usually "pushing scummy plans" is a decent scum tell; but this specific player pushing this specific plan is not. And Marvellosity should know this. Marv has obs'd at least two games where Talismania proposed this plan or a variation of it (ssb, bangbang). Tali has proposed this in other games. Marv is the kind of player who pays attention; he should also know that I've pushed tali hard for these plans in the past, as have others. Marv putting tali forward as his first lynch candidates comes down to an easy push on an easy target for reasons he should know are bad. Marv, I'm watching you. + Show Spoiler [on Talismania, briefly] + I'm not saying tali is an easy target in general, like kenpachi or grush would be. He's not that kind of shitty player slash bad case magnet. It's just that for marv to propose him for lynch based on that plan is scummy. He's right about me always pushing this idea althoguh I think he's overreacting to marv's reaction. So actually not that many people commented on it even though I thought like everyone did oops. My views: scummy responses: austinmcc, dropbear null responses: marv, mattchew, keirathi, strongandbig townie response: gonzaw did not respond directly although was in the thread: Risen, sciberbia, solstice so me explaining why it is bad doesnt differentiate me from marv, keirathi, strongandbig | ||
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I don't like the way sciberbia has been posting... it all seems forced as hell like the way he says On July 12 2012 13:31 sciberbia wrote: gonzaw asked for some thoughts on Risen, strongandbig, and Mattchew. Obviously there is not much to go on yet, but here are my thoughts so far He clarifies that he's only saying this cause gonzaw asked, kinda reads to me like hes paranoid about not answering a question in the thread | ||
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your read on vivax | ||
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On July 13 2012 03:20 marvellosity wrote: What's to disagree with? I mean, you might not think he's scum, but what I wrote was true... bangs on about meta, says he doesn't want to rely on meta. Yes I disagree that he's scum. But its similar to Zealos, and I was wrong there. I wasn't disagreeing with your content just your conclusion | ||
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On July 13 2012 03:23 marvellosity wrote: What do you see in Vivax that makes you think he might be town? his effort and his not giving a fuck style | ||
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On July 13 2012 03:37 talismania wrote: it's half-assed because of the form it took. what I've pushed before is "everyone make case" or "everyone list impressions" and the like. I was trying to think of a way to beat the day one doldrums somewhat and thought of that on the spot and posted it. I figured no one would agree to it but at the very least it would stir the pot. are you actively lurking or is it a coincidence that you respond quickly when you are mentioned and then are quiet in other times | ||
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Also, marv and gonz, what do you think of scib | ||
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On July 13 2012 06:00 Keirathi wrote: Err what? Those posts are reasonably close together, and his response to me was the only one where he had been mentioned. Granted, its just the last 3 posts in his filter before you made this accusation, but it seems like a pretty baseless accusation. Pre-Post edit: sorry I'm replying to this late. I've been working through the 75 posts that were made while I was asleep/at work making notes. it was a gut-feel, knee-jerk post... just poking at him cause I felt that way | ||
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Talis cause he's proposing anti town plans and then backpeddling super fast Keirathi cause he's posting super carefully, and his reads seem forced scib cause he seems hesitant to post, and he posts this (it was spoilered) Obviously, we should be lynching every day until we have good reason not to. I will push to get my scumreads lynched, but I will prefer any lynch to a No-Lynch. I'm not a big fan of lynching lurkers. Obviously, lurking hurts town, but I don't think lurking is all that alignment-indicative. Seeing as our goal is to lynch scum, I will only give slight preference to lynching the lurker over the active player, everything else being even. as he has not pushed a single read yet | ||
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On July 13 2012 07:24 Keirathi wrote: Thats because they were kind of forced. I was specifically asked to make reads, so I responded with the two single scummiest things I've noticed. But I have a method to the way I play this game. Take a look at this. I take notes like this for a reason: so I can recognize patterns in people's play, rather than harping on one or two scummy things they've done. That's why I'm hesitant to make hard reads early. So you know that you do this as town, whats to stop you from doing so as scum? | ||
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On July 13 2012 16:52 Keirathi wrote: Err, what? How do you have a town read on me when literally everyone else has a scum read? SO TOWNIE IT HURTS still reading | ||
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On July 14 2012 01:33 gonzaw wrote: Ehmm...is it me or does the day END IN FREAKING 5 HOURS!!!!?? Seriously people, these votes are a mess, there are 6 people with votes on them and the guy with most votes has 3 (marv will you keep your vote on solstice?). So please people consolidate the votes unless you want: 1)A NL 2)A rushed last-minute wagon on someone (to prevent NL) that will most likely end up being town. I already said I think Keirath is scum and should be today's lynch. But I wouldn't mind a Dropbear lynch either (because of reasons stated earlier). In mind with S&B's recent posting I wouldn't mind his lynch either, I don't like how he sporadically comes into the thread to shit things up and doesn't seem to care about being part of any discussion. At least I want some freaking discussion about the lynch. Is anyone else voting dropbear? yet you want consolidation? | ||
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On July 13 2012 17:01 DropBear wrote: I'll defend Milton for you He started late so hasn't posted as much. We knew that was happening before the games started. Your point 1 directly helps people get a read on him. This is extremely positive town play. In your point 2, you say how the plan allows pointless posting and how that doesn't help town, but then turn around and lambast Milton for pointing this out. Contradiction much? There is no real pressure from talismania on austin at all. Milton is right, talismania IS only defending the plan and not committing to accusations. Three reads is enough for day 1, no? Posting your read on every single person is just clutter. You should be less obvious in defending your buddy. SCUM TEAM Vivax talismania gonzaw, scum don't usually do this. so i don't want to vote dropbear. | ||
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On July 14 2012 03:10 austinmcc wrote: Actually, I'm wondering this as well, specifically, why is marv your choice? town read and he's smart gonz is town too imo but his day 1 reads are usually meh at best no offense | ||
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On July 14 2012 02:49 gonzaw wrote: Scum don't usually defend other guys and accuse people....? Could you be a little bit more specific? What about the rest of his posts? Scum don't usually defend people with good reasoning, like i think drop did. Also, he is aggressive and willing to take on the loudest person here (you) which means he's not afraid of the attention, another thing scum is unlikely to do | ||
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On July 16 2012 01:44 gonzaw wrote: Just woke up, and it's Fathers Day here so I'll be gone for a couple of hours. This is a fucking disgrace Mattchew, where the fuck are you? Same to Dropbear really. hey gonzaw, I think I found for sure scum brb posting soon | ||
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On July 14 2012 01:32 talismania wrote: hokay so DropBear I think he is scum for two reasons. 1) The timing with which he bashes my plan. Everyone else had already bashed it. If you look at that post, what possible purpose does it serve? It's not adding anything to the discussion, it's just prolonging it unnecessarily. 2) Weird tone. He was an aggressive player when I played with him last, but didn't get feisty (the "angry koala" as acrofales dubbed him) until he was threatened with a lynch. He's been ornery and disruptive this entire game and I can't figure out why. Plus when he was angry before, it was righteous anger. This feels like sarcastic, trollish ribbing. Examples below: (the entire tone of the above post)^ What makes the timing of that post and his tone scummy? Well both are unnecessary, both are disruptive and create an anti-town atmosphere, and, in the case of this response to my plan, it is essentially just an excuse to add filler to his filter. Look like contributing without actually contributing. He's also had a relatively narrow focus, only looking at vivax and me. And really he was only looking at vivax, but then somehow in his last post I got shoehorned into the picture, perhaps to give him cover to vote for me later on. ##vote: DropBear This is case is so forced and bad. It is like he looked at the player list, and said i'll try to make a case against dropbear today so i can look townie to everyone! The first point is the timing of his response to Talis. Everyone responded to Talis's case including some LATER than Dropbear. Why is he treating Drop different from say S&B or anyone else that talked about his plan. NOT TO MENTION HE THEN GOES ON TO TALK ABOUT HIS PLAN AT LENGTH LATER IN HIS FILTER LOL. The second point is the most commonly used tactic by bad players to lynch someone they don't like. I think Gonzaw fell prey to this a little too, but I don't know if his intentions were the same. Talis is literally saying, you were mean and that could create a bad town atmosphere (which aggressive DOES NOT EQUAL scum) and I would hope both Talis and Gonzaw as town would know this. Since his vote on dropbear, he has been completely useless in the thread + Show Spoiler + (hur dur pot calling the kettle black) talismania is scum. | ||
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On July 16 2012 03:14 DropBear wrote: In your case on tali you mention him having similar behaviour to gonzaw, but you haven't written a case on gonzaw. What differentiates them exactly? Some of it is good, yes. Tali is still dodgy to me but then tbh so are you. Mostly because I am unsure of gonzaw, and I can only vote/lynch 1 person today | ||
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On July 16 2012 03:43 talismania wrote: also wtf happened to your suspicions of sciberbia - what made you change your mind there? still suspicious, just sure of you, nice scummy deflection btw and risen, do you not agree with my case on Talis? What do you find wrong with it or townie about him | ||
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On July 16 2012 06:28 gonzaw wrote: Okay got back. Skimming the thread, I got a weird feeling of solstice going against S&B, but that's maybe because I got a change of mind about S&B and wanted to give him a little break. I see Mattchew just came right off the bat with a case and a vote...and I don't know if I like that (I didn't see him explaining wtf he did last day). Anyways, gonna sort some stuff here in my house, do stuff for the other mafia game I'm playing, and get back here. Dunno about talis yet, I'm having some difficulty trying to figure out the whole tails/Dropbear/solstice situation; but I'll make sure to read on that. No explaination, wasn't around | ||
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On July 16 2012 06:49 gonzaw wrote: Not without explaining why you kept your vote on sciberbia (if you knew you weren't going to be back before the deadline) ro explaining anything at all or if you still thought sciberbia was scum. Or anything at all basically. People not giving you an exact vote count isn't an excuse to waste your vote, leave the thread and come back 24 hours later without giving a shit about the lynch. I had given my opinion on Vivax, because I wasn't confident in it doesn't mean I was ever going to vote to lynch him. So I left my opinions and my vote as they were | ||
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On July 16 2012 07:01 gonzaw wrote: Vivax wasn't the 100% sure lynch at that point. Dropbear already had votes, and to be honest you could have voted for someone else like austin, Keriathi, etc since they had votes as well. What made you keep your vote on sciberbia and not even consider changing it? What made you not even discuss about it? Or were you in too much of a hurry to explain stuff? If so you could have mentioned you were in a hurry before so we'd avoid this whole mess I was in a hurry, but I am sick of playing in games and making weekend excuses for not being able post as much as I would like. Read my case on Talis, tell me where I am wrong or vote with me on him. | ||
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On July 16 2012 07:12 gonzaw wrote: If he was scum and did it on purpose yes (if he's town then he obviously didn't think about it). I guess you don't know scum Mattchew and what he's capable of. Some scum don't give a shit about slight "WIFOMy" suspicion on themselves if they can get it away easily later or shift attention elsewhere and keep doing what they do. Risen, Mattchew, Palmar, Ace, etc are some players that tend to act like that as scum every once and then I don't know if its a busytell if I don't get a reasonable explanation for it. He WAS active when he made those posts, and there were lots of discussion going on about Vivax, Dropbear, Keirathi, solstice, etc. At that point in time (if he didn't just come, post and immediately leave) there were tons of things he could have done to help town, keeping his vote on sciberbia and not explaining anything isn't part of that. Unless he was in such a hurry he only had time to post and not read the thread at all (and he still believed sciberbia was scum); then it's not a "busytell" and it's odd as fuck. Him not explaining himself at all until I JUST asked him to is odd as fuck as well. (damn, I see this is taking quite a detour in town discussion. Matt please explain EVERYTHING that went through your mind at that time and what you did (i.e what activity you had, if you were actually reading the thread or just posted and left, etc) so we can get this over with) WHAT IS THE POINT OF THIS. STOP TALKING ABOUT MY ABSENCE AND AVOIDING THE ACTUAL MEANINGFUL SCUM HUNTING DISCUSSION IN THE THREAD. | ||
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On July 16 2012 09:19 gonzaw wrote: I found him initially suspicious last night, and so far I didn't see anything that would change my mind from him when I skimmed the thread. But damn I still haven't finished reading the thread in its whole :/ (still haven't reached most of the cases done this day) Too little time to do everything. You look extremely dodgy right now with matters involving the actual lynch and scum hunting today | ||
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On July 16 2012 09:53 gonzaw wrote: I haven't read the entire thread and I'm having doubts about some people. Some, like solstice, I want to see how he reacts about that S&B thing I mentioned to see if their reaction is legit or not. Same with austin, and Risen. I haven't looked too much into talis/Dropbear since I haven't gotten to the cases against them (the ones on this D2), so I haven't updated my thoughts on them yet. What do you mean by "dodgy" though? you look like you are avoiding talking about scum hunting and cases made against people | ||
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On July 17 2012 06:27 s0Lstice wrote: wha? How do either of you know how talismania behaves in mafia when he's frustrated. The only person who knows that is Talismania. He's not VE, the comparison doesn't work. Anyway though it doesn't matter. The thing is being absent seems like a weird play for either side. Quick note also. Go look at Talis' posting on Dropbear. It's clear to me that Dropbear's reactions to the prodding are part of Talis' read. Those questions you quoted are in line with that. Mattchew, where are you? Im here | ||
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On July 17 2012 06:40 s0Lstice wrote: @mattchew, you have zero doubts about this? I think that Talis is our best option for a lynch and has a higher chance than anyone else in the game of flipping scum | ||
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On July 17 2012 06:43 s0Lstice wrote: also @mattchew, I'd like to know your thoughts on Risen After the flip and later tonight. For now, we lynch Talis. GTG | ||
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On July 17 2012 10:05 sciberbia wrote: @Mattchew Are you still suspicious of me? I'm just wondering since you haven't really talked about me in forever... I'm working on a response to keirathi atm. You started the lynch on now confirmed scum. I do not think you are scum any longer. | ||
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On July 17 2012 10:18 s0Lstice wrote: Mattchew, I'm still waiting for your read on risen. Working on it | ||
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His reads are constantly evolving and changing more WAY more than when I played with him as scum, and he basically started and got Vivax lynched. While I didn't agree with the lynch + Show Spoiler + This leads me to my next scum candidate. Gonzaw. I was waiting to push this until Talis flipped because A. I wanted to see if he was scum and B. I wanted to keep the conversation on Talis. I will make my case before deadline tomorrow. I have a lot of it mapped out in my head just not written down yet and I want to keep up with the fast pace of Bureaurcracy Mafia tonight | ||
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But later (after your D1 fiasco) you just parked your vote on talis, and spent 80% of your posts just going "what do you think of talis" or "vote talis" or "I want talis dead" or "talis talis talis". Like, no offense to scib, but I would put a lot of the weight on Talis actually getting lynched on me forcing attention onto him. Scib's case was good and all, but would you agree that without me pushing individuals (not just HEY THREAD I MADE A CASE) was the real reason for all the votes on Talis? I wanted to get Talis lynched, something you flipflopped on a lot which I am extremely suspicious of. I think I did a pretty good job of bringing people from "I would lynch x,x, and talis," to actually voting and getting on Talis. But thats enough for patting myself on the back. | ||
Mattchew
United States5684 Posts
On July 17 2012 12:30 gonzaw wrote: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=351147¤tpage=38#744 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=351147¤tpage=38#753 He made his case before and he spent all day actively discussing it, discussing other points about talis and about other potential lynch candidates and why he preferred talis lynched instead of them (he did this several times with S&B, you, and someone else I think), so I don't think you can take the credit like you are doing now. "Wanting talis lynched" is no confirmation of you being town and you know it. You didn't actively push it but just asked people about it basically. I don't think anybody used your case alone as a basis to vote talis. I also think Dropbear mentioned some points about it before you, and like I said your case was just based around his accusation of Dropbear. I'll consider it though. What made you have that chance in attitude from early D1 to now? Why didn't you talk about anything other than talis last day? I don't think I ever flip-flopped on talis, I found him suspicious on N1, and when I started skimming the thread I didn't notice anything changing my mind, so I decide to address other issues I did have some trouble with (namely S&B, Risen, you, then Dropbaer, and solstice), by reading filters while I was reading the thread. I'll try and reread Milton/solstice later, it's possible there's a scum there. I'm not too sure about Risen now since he made it 7 votes which made it impossible for a single guy to save talis (by unvoting). But well he HAD to vote or be modkilled so it's not that telling perhaps. I do think it gives S&B more cred, since he could have easily said "I don't buy the talis lynch let's lynch Dropbear" and disappear later while putting talis at 5, but he was the hammer. Actually, wanting talis dead is a town tell. Thats how you differentiate between scum bussing and town pushing. Day 1 my read on Scib wasn't that strong (and I now believe it was incorrect) so I was a little more all over the place. Day 2 I was more sure and wanted to focus the thread on just Talis I wanted talis lynched, The thread was actively discussing this, so I either butt in to push his lynch or I just sat back and watched him get lynched. I said this already here On July 17 2012 06:39 Mattchew wrote: We have 7 on talis, i think he's scum. He should die. Would you like any other opinions from me? And yeah I probably took too much credit from scib... meh <3 he's my bud now <3 | ||
Mattchew
United States5684 Posts
On July 12 2012 09:36 gonzaw wrote: So, if the lynch was right now I'd want to kill one of these 3 guys: You can see the recurring theme in all 3 (just 1 post, promising something/appearing they are eager to start but not doing anything else later). marv, talismania, anybody active, what do you think about these guys? If you had to kill one of them which one would you choose and why? (if you don't want to kill anyone then say so). Also this guy could die too: But at least he put a little bit more effort (although that's not town-telling) Dropbear and Milton haven't even posted, but well we can't do anything about it. This is his first attempt at scum hunting. It is lazy and general, making "cases" on multiple people and trying to shift conversation onto those who haven't posted much instead of actually reading into the people that have posted actively at that point in the game. He is basically saying lets lynch the lurkers, something in the Policy lynching thread he said would lead to town losses + Show Spoiler + On June 07 2012 15:42 gonzaw wrote: The thing is that when policy lynches haven't been enforced yet in previous games, starting to enforce them in a specific game creates a shitstorm and would most likely murder that game. Imagine that a certain game starts, and everybody decides to policy lynch lurkers. So you lynch your 1st lurker on D1. He would be most likely town, but no worries, you think everybody else will stop lurking by now and we solve the problem right? Wrong, players that lurked until then will keep lurking (or being inactive for stuff from real life), and you'll keep policy lynching them throughout the game, most likely earning scum a win and making the game boring as hell. Yes, if many games enforced a "lurkers" policy lynch, then the more time goes on the larger the probability of there being fewer and fewer lurkers in games. However that comes with the cost of maybe making each game it's implemented a total chaos, and those (specially town) that play those games want to win them, and they know that by just policy lynching lurkers that isn't achieved so there's less incentive to enforce them. That was the "Lynch lurkers" policy, if you do the "Lynch blue claims" policy you'll do the same thing since blue claims will still start showing up (hi VE!) and you'll still end up lynching them and them flipping blue, again making the games more boring and shittier for town (or for scum if they wanted to make an epic play or something). It's like being fat and starting to diet and exercise. You know it's good in the long run, but as soon as you start it you hate it because it ruins everything to you in the present and makes things uncomfortable. So, is TL Mafia willing to drop weight or not? Maybe someone can spare a liposuction so we avoid this altogether >_>. On July 12 2012 10:51 gonzaw wrote: Well....okay I don't know what else to say? I found you guys suspicious because of that, so unless someone thinks Vivax+solstice+sciberbia+talis+keirtaht could be scum one of you HAS to be scum basically (even based on numbers alone) Anyone see a name that sticks out in this post? Again with lazy scum hunting equivicating effort in the thread to alignment something he SAYS But at least he put a little bit more effort (although that's not town-telling) So heres a nice lumping of a scum player into a group of names while contradicting himselfOn July 13 2012 12:16 gonzaw wrote: Hmm, I'm thinking about switching my vote to either Dropbear or Keirath. Dropbear tried to act all "tough" and shit but I get the impression he only tried to spout as many stuff as he could about plans/etc and trying to create some chaos by accusing people or discrediting plans/accusations. His vote on Vivax is a joke (some people already went over this), and he hasn't done anything that makes me think he actually cares about town discussion, his posts just seem to appear like he's there doing something since he's so aggressive about it, but nothing else. I get the feeling Keirath is more likely scum. Like Matt said his reads seemed "forced", in the way that they weren't much reads at all. At least S&B's read, where Kei calls him suspicious but townie at the same time (and calls him suspicious for some bad reasons I think). He seems fixated on "meta" somehow, thinking all of us are using "meta" to catch scum (we are not). His defense of Milkton seemed out of place as well (like it came out of nowhere and he defended him just because of "meta" again, hell I don't even know why he's defending him). Like said before his posts are too verbose, but trying to blend in IMO. He also spends quite time just defending himself which I don't particularly like (he could have been pushing for other reads at that time). Let's go with this, but I'd be happy with a switch on Dropbear to be honest (hmm, I think S&B could be scum as well, but I'll wait till he comes back) ##Unvote: austinmcc ##Vote: Keirath On July 13 2012 12:29 gonzaw wrote: My bad, I just noticed it. The thing is that it's like he thought Risen was town even in that 1st post of his, but maybe it's his own weird way of being suspicious Hmm, okay, I think I'll let austin slide, it does seem he posts like this when he's town, and him being a noob could explain him being all over talismania for something irrelevant. These two posts are where he drops suspicions on Austin, his strongest read from before. After posting a ton about him being scummy, his reasoning for him not thinking austin is scum is a small one liner. This looks more like scum admitting defeat on their attempt at a mislynch then town changing their mind, especially a town gonzaw (mind you we don't know austin's alignment) On July 14 2012 06:54 gonzaw wrote: This is fucking balls, I don't want a NL at all costs, but I doubt Dropbear will get more votes I kind of want to lynch S&B to be honest, I've skimmed these last few pages and he just wasn't active in conversations at all even when active and just posted ARg fucking hell And you get off my fucking back this is not easy, I have to blindly vote one of those 2 without even reading what they posted Well fuck this shit if Vivax flips town it should be a monument of how shitty this day seems ##Unvote: Dropbear ##Vote: Vivax This is gonzaw's vote on Vivax day 1. This is not as telling of his alignment as many of the other things but it still is questionable. He has what he believes are 3 solid scum reads, Keithrathi, S&B, and Dropbear, yet votes someone else just for the sake of having a lynch. I can't tell if this was irresponsible or scummy. On July 14 2012 08:11 gonzaw wrote: How about the whole D3 of MTG Mafia? I don't get why you are so hung up on this, I haven't even "tunneled" you nor even voted for you for christ sake, but every time I talk about you you pull out the "Oh gonzaw is FoSing me of course he is" card. This isn't a lie per-say but he has been pushing for his lynch for a while. He even said right after Vivax flipped that he REALLY wanted to lynch S&B, which is either a lie or a vote (just not techinically) On July 16 2012 06:28 gonzaw wrote: Okay got back. Skimming the thread, I got a weird feeling of solstice going against S&B, but that's maybe because I got a change of mind about S&B and wanted to give him a little break. I see Mattchew just came right off the bat with a case and a vote...and I don't know if I like that (I didn't see him explaining wtf he did last day). Anyways, gonna sort some stuff here in my house, do stuff for the other mafia game I'm playing, and get back here. Dunno about talis yet, I'm having some difficulty trying to figure out the whole tails/Dropbear/solstice situation; but I'll make sure to read on that. This is the first post Gonzaw makes after me and scib make our cases and talis makes his awful responses to them. He then follows that post up with all of this discussion of where I was during the day 1 lynch, instead of talking about Talis (who he even supposidly found suspicious the night before. Why isn't he focused on the scum hunting going on in the thread instead of a mattchew whereabouts witchhunt + Show Spoiler + On July 16 2012 06:42 gonzaw wrote: Yes you were, don't lie: On July 16 2012 06:49 gonzaw wrote: Not without explaining why you kept your vote on sciberbia (if you knew you weren't going to be back before the deadline) ro explaining anything at all or if you still thought sciberbia was scum. Or anything at all basically. People not giving you an exact vote count isn't an excuse to waste your vote, leave the thread and come back 24 hours later without giving a shit about the lynch. On July 16 2012 06:53 gonzaw wrote: Mattchew did very similar stuff in MTG. He went AFK for the WHOLE D1 and he didn't give a fuck about being called out. Him being afk itself isn't worrying, it's worrying when it's obvious he doesn't give a shit about anything and isn't even trying to explain himself about his inactivity and lack of effort. I'm torn because his earlier posts did seem townie, but that behaviour of his strikes some doubt (specially if it wasn't for some outside reason, like getting his internet connection cut or something). I'll try to drop the subject before reading this thread and his case on talis; but this is basically exclusive since it's about his earlier behaviour. That was marv On July 16 2012 07:01 gonzaw wrote: Vivax wasn't the 100% sure lynch at that point. Dropbear already had votes, and to be honest you could have voted for someone else like austin, Keriathi, etc since they had votes as well. What made you keep your vote on sciberbia and not even consider changing it? What made you not even discuss about it? Or were you in too much of a hurry to explain stuff? If so you could have mentioned you were in a hurry before so we'd avoid this whole mess On July 16 2012 07:04 gonzaw wrote: I'm talking about the action itself and how it isn't a "town tell" coming from Mattchew. I said I'm reading the thread later (I'm not actually seriously accusing him right now, at least not before reading his other posts), I just want a (justified) explanation for that previous behaviour of his (you can't tell me it wasn't odd as fuck, everybody noticed it). I already talked about his posting before his "derp", although I skimmed his posts afterwards (from this D2) and they aren't that "townie" as his first ones. On July 16 2012 07:12 gonzaw wrote: If he was scum and did it on purpose yes (if he's town then he obviously didn't think about it). I guess you don't know scum Mattchew and what he's capable of. Some scum don't give a shit about slight "WIFOMy" suspicion on themselves if they can get it away easily later or shift attention elsewhere and keep doing what they do. Risen, Mattchew, Palmar, Ace, etc are some players that tend to act like that as scum every once and then I don't know if its a busytell if I don't get a reasonable explanation for it. He WAS active when he made those posts, and there were lots of discussion going on about Vivax, Dropbear, Keirathi, solstice, etc. At that point in time (if he didn't just come, post and immediately leave) there were tons of things he could have done to help town, keeping his vote on sciberbia and not explaining anything isn't part of that. Unless he was in such a hurry he only had time to post and not read the thread at all (and he still believed sciberbia was scum); then it's not a "busytell" and it's odd as fuck. Him not explaining himself at all until I JUST asked him to is odd as fuck as well. (damn, I see this is taking quite a detour in town discussion. Matt please explain EVERYTHING that went through your mind at that time and what you did (i.e what activity you had, if you were actually reading the thread or just posted and left, etc) so we can get this over with) Look at this post here. Its a lengthy diatribe about myself and Keithrathi, followed by FINALLY a mentioning of his suspicions on Talis. It seems like this was literally forced out of him, and its not like he even mentions any reasons for thinking the way he does. He seems to be trying to go with the flow, but not pushing it at all. He literally does not add anything to the Talis lynch other than his vote. + Show Spoiler + On July 16 2012 11:45 gonzaw wrote: Okay, I've been rereading some stuff and I drop my suspicion of austin, I just can't see him as scum at the moment. Some of that stuff you guys (sciberbia && austin) said makes sense. Plus what I said last night (that S&B's actions did make sense with him being overly frustrated at me, plus his suspicion of solstice and shit) it's likely he's town. Okay, 2 conundrums resolved, now onto talismania/Dropbear/solstice/Mattchew/Risen/Keirathi Just by gut feeling without reading those cases (again, sorry really don't have the time, I'm putting lots of effort in that other mafia game....hey if you guys want you can check it out if I link it to you, you can learn one thing or two ) I get the feeling the scum are there and nowhere else. I haven't checked Milton too much, but I get a feeling he's town, specially because of his stance on talis which he changed after people pointed out how "bad" it was (in the sense that he was only talking about meta). His case on Dropbear seems legit, since I can't really see him heavily accusing someone that considers him almost confirmed town as scum. So by process of elimination (sciberbia, S&B, austin, Milton), it leaves those 6, with 3-4 anti town factions (scum+SK), so I think this day will be a good one. About Keirathi: I get the feeling Keirathi is town but I'm not that sure, I wouldn't mind leaving him for later. Basically, some of what I said earlier applies, in the sense that he didn't really try to scumhunt until being called out (by marv), and those reads seemed pretty bad (specially the one on S&B). After that he spent most of his time defending himself and not really trying to scumhunt. Plus since N1 and D2 I didn't see him do anything constructive at all (hell did he even post in D2?). His defense of Vivax could have given him town points...but I'm not sure (scum opposing a town misslynch on D1 isn't uncommon at all). There are little things that make me think he's town (I've explained them already I think), and tiny bits of reaction he made that I don't really see him making as scum. However those reactions were basically the only thing in his filter at some points, and there was very little scumhunting in between. Now that I look at the tone of his posts it seems townie too me though (gut feeling) so maybe he's likely town I just noticed this: So I guess that's the reason he wasn't active. Hmm, I'm slightly leaning town but I'm not that sure. Just like Risen I need him to actually do something today to solidify my read on him I already discussed Risen (I'm waiting for him to come back), and I'll discuss Mattchew a little bit: About Mattchew: I like these since they are concise and give good info. Talis plan was bad and he immediately pointed out without dragging it on. He pointed out the "root" of my accusation and basically agreed with it, even though he was one of the guys I accused (and I mentioned before I wouldn't really expect this from scum Matt, I thought he'd either ignore it or shit on it). His next posts are good as well, I like how he's not shitting on me and reads me okay by that point (that might be a little biased though ). He does make contributions that are indeed "concise" and improve town's atmosphere. He even goes to great length to defend Vivax from marv even before the Vivax wagon started. As well as his read on S&B. So far (assuming S&B is town) that would be a VERY passive game for Mattchew to make as scum, in the sense that he doesn't start shitting and accusing townies left and right, but actually making sense and getting those townies to be recognized as such. His later posts don't really seem the same way (trying to improve town), yet seem more like slightly irrelevant one-liners. Him defending Dropbear and me does seem townie though. However, after that he makes his blunder, where he posts asking for the vote count, but doesn't do shit and keeps his vote on sciberbia. I found this extremely scummy because he WAS active then and as a townie would have cared more about the lynch (and his vote), yet he didn't seem to care. I find it odd as well how now Mattchew seems to avoid that issue and not give me an explanation at all (was he really busy and in a hurry or was he lurking the thread at that point?) that could completely remove my suspicion on him (well not "completely" but I would disregard it). I don't like this drunk post at all: Since I don't know wtf he's saying and why he thinks I'm scum. Here he posts sober but fails to explain his behaviour last day, even though he should have read that me+marv+others found it suspicious as fuck. From then he seemed less interested in improving town's atmosphere than early-D1. He didn't explain himself at all, and throughout all N1 didn't do shit. I may agree with his case on talis (need to filter talis first), but after that he doesn't really do a good job of explaining himself (about his behaviour or why he thinks I'm scum). I don't like how he's casting suspicion on me right now either, yet refuses to say anything about me or why he changed his town read on me. However, I could see town Mattchew just not caring about his D1 fluke and thinking I'm shitting up the thread about it (thus making him a little bit more suspicious of me), but those reasons above don't make me confident in thinking he's town at all, specially since I know Mattchew is capable of doing that "fluke" as scum just to skate by D1, whether other people find it scummy or not (he wouldn't really care as scum). This is why I'm torn on him, and why I wanted that explanation from him. I would also like an explanation on what he thinks of sciberbia ever since early-D1 and why he changed his mind on me (him not responding these strike me as suspicious as well, since again I can easily see scum Mattchew just not caring about it at this point). He had a good start that made me think he was town but some of his actions and behaviour made me doubt that (since scum Matthew could have just tried to appear pro-town on early-D1 like that) Holy shit that was long. Anyways, I do feel solstice+talismania are scum, and well didn't really read on Dropbear yet (or these new cases) so I'll do it shortly. I don't really know how to decipher the talis/Dropbear situation (if one is scum, or both are scum, etc), but I'll give it a try. For now I wouldn't oppose a talismania lynch at all by what I've skimmed (plus talismania has basically been useless all late-D1, and all D2 as well). I don't know if maybe I'd support a solstice lynch better, or if I change my mind and find Dropbear more scummy, but we'll see once I read the thread once and for all! Stay tuned. On July 16 2012 11:47 gonzaw wrote: Fuck it I doubt I'll change my mind about talismania. ##Vote: talismania Just wanted to get the vote out there for a more "official" standing of what I said before. On July 17 2012 06:51 gonzaw wrote: Well damn, I wasn't expecting that. Fuck I'm not too confident on this one right now, but it's either talis or NL. Hmm, damn. So now, not when we are mislynching, does the weight of a No Lynch is really weigh on Gonzaw? Its like he is trying to use Keirathi's, (someone he should still believe to be scum at this point, I think?) anxiety to allow him to back out of the Talis lynch. Gonzaw is scum and should be lynched tomorrow. | ||
Mattchew
United States5684 Posts
On July 18 2012 04:25 gonzaw wrote: Most of your case is confirmation bias like this: ..and basically a PBPA. Some of those things you mention I don't know why are even scummy at all. Also I posted about talis on N1, if you thought I "didn't add anything to the talis lynch". But okay, after I come back home I'll post a more cohesive defense. Confirmation bias? I think that your lack of reasoning for changing your mind about Austin is more likely to happen if you are scum? and it is far from a PBPA when you have 7 pages of posts and I only quoted maybe a page worth of them (not including 1 spoiler for its effect cause I summarized them all) | ||
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##vote Gonzaw | ||
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On July 18 2012 19:15 Risen wrote: Sigh... I don't think gonzaw is scum and I wanted to live through the night so I was playing stupid but I guess my claim was going to force me to go all in sooner or later. I'm inclined to think you're town, as well. I really think scum team is keir/matt. Wanted to keep my suspicions of him masked until keir flipped. So what is this awesome scum read you have on me based on purely meta again? | ||
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On July 19 2012 06:29 Risen wrote: Gonzaw why are you voting Mattchew here? Who do you think his partner is? I think keir has been acting way more scummy than mattchew. If Matt is playing his #1 townie style I don't see why we aren't lynch keir. Btw, that's the only way I see Matt as scum is if he's playing as his pro townie self, dude is ruthless and probably why I don't trust him. Also yeah it's just a meta read Matt :/ thats fine just wanted to be open and honest about it. | ||
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Not exactly, because of his gonzaw play which I don't fully understand, but I don't think that changes my read on him in anyway | ||
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On July 19 2012 07:16 s0Lstice wrote: I also really like how Mattchew is concerning himself with answering the accusations of his top scum read, instead of pushing said read right now, as the town is losing focus. have we lost focus? I think a very high percentage of posts today are about who people think are scum and who to lynch today | ||
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United States5684 Posts
On July 19 2012 07:27 s0Lstice wrote: @mattchew - from your standpoint, yes. risen is all over keir, s&b seems to be suspicious of risen, dropbear wants to kill risen, gonzaw wants to kill you. the only person who is firmly in your camp at this time seems to be sciberbia. aside from all that, we've been talking about the set-up, NK stuff, the other mason etc....and you don't seem to care that we aren't talking about gonzaw your push on gonzaw feels very, very different from your push on Talis so far. So, why you not voting gonzaw | ||
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On July 19 2012 09:30 sciberbia wrote: I'm sorry, but am I the only one completely confused by this? What exactly do you mean by "matt is the only link I see"? Why can't you see a dropbear + gonzaw scumteam or a keirathi + gonzaw scumteam? Also, if gonzaw's being scum implies that mattchew is strictly adhering to his town meta, isn't the logical conclusion that matt is town? Since when is acting like a townie a scumtell? Is anybody else confused by this or I am just retarded? Also, can you please confirm that all 7 of these statements are true, or otherwise point out where I am wrong? He thinks that I am the only one that could be Gonzaws partner because A. He (gonzaw) was wishy washy and hesitant to lynch Talis, just like he is acting with me and B. I am known to bus all my teammates ruthlessly. Also, gonzaw has push for a keirathi lynch HARD so thats probably not his teammate and idk why Risen doesn't see dropbear as a possible teammate. heres the thing though Gonzaw is scum. I have made a full case against him, which not enough of you have taken the time to read and respond to. Right now, like literally as you read this post, go back and read through it. This means Risen, I love you dearly, but you are wrong about me being his teammate. I have my suspicions of who is teammate could and could not be, but this really doesn't matter right now. We need to lynch a scum, not the entire scum team. If we lynch scum today we go up 6 town to 1 scum come day 4. With the ability to confirm Risen and get more confirmed town then night kills and lynches we will basically be unable to lose. This is why we lynch Gonzaw. I would really really like to see why people are not voting him | ||
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+ Show Spoiler + On July 19 2012 10:39 s0Lstice wrote: I'm starting to like this game more, because I have found scum. Listen up town, Mattchew is scum. Let's start here. Look at what he tells s&b. Your posts thus far could come from either town or scum i.e. are neutral. He then goes on listing problems with it. -longwinded -off topic -bad read -bad reasoning for vote ...and the conclusion from this is neutral. After listing reasons for finding something suspicious, your end result should be 'I am suspicious of you.' More, who accuses someone of not looking definitively town in their first few posts? Someone who already knows the alignment of the person they are addressing. It wasn't 's&b your first few posts are crap and scummy looking,' it was 's&b you haven't shown me you are town in your first few posts.' Those things you listed, are exactly what I said, neutral alignment. Its the intention behind these posts that I was trying to figure out. Do you disagree with what I said about S&B's posts? Do you draw alignment from people being long-winded, off-topic and playing poorly? Because if you do, you are going to vote a lot of mislynches. Look now at what he did on day 1. This was basically his scum-hunting: This would be a weak day 1 from anybody, but it is especially so from a vet. He leaves his vote on sciberbia and drops off the face of the earth. Compare that now to day 2, where he goes balls to the wall trying to get Talismania lynched. He is sure of himself, he convinces others to get on board. He basically doesn't leave it alone until he gets what he wants: a Talis lynch. Have a look: This is a mismatch, like he flipped a switch and all of a sudden he is a scum-finding machine. It also reeks again of Mattchew already knowing someone's alignment. Now let's move to after the lynch. What is he doing here? Why does he care so much about who is getting the credit for Talis' lynch? What's more, he's justifying it to the person who he is the next most suspicious of after Talis' lynch. Why even bother? Because who is getting the credit directly affects how well Mattchew's bus on Talismania worked. I thought Gonzaw was playing down my role in Talis getting lynched. I wanted to point out this inaccuracy and defend myself from his accusation. I posted later that I took too much from Scib, I just thought/think Gonzaw was intentionally down playing my role in the lynch. Now let's move on to night2/day2. He is supposedly trying to get Gonzaw lynched. Let's look at him pushing this case: The end. That is, until I called him out on it, then he is all about getting us on-board. This does not match with how he was pushing Talis. The early part of day 2 turned out to be a crucial time for Mattchew if he wanted his target lynched. At the time (earlier today) there was a lot of finger-pointing going on/discussion of things not gonzaw. I summarized it before, but I'll repeat it for shits and giggles. -Dropbear wants to kill Risen -s&b is suspicious of Risen -risen is suspicious of keir -we talk about the NK -we talk about the set-up -we talk about the mason claim We are definitely not focusing on gonzaw at that time. So Mattchew should be seeking to get us on track. But instead he is doing this: 'Gonzaw, my #1 scum read, could you please post your suspicions of me again so I can address them?' Doesn't fit. We were half way through day 2, starting to peel away from Mattchew's target, and he is asking his scum read to remake his case against him. Now for some extraneous stuff: -here's him swinging the WIFOM bat around: Well the first one is true, please go look at Marv's filter from Movie Star Mafia (Here's the link!) The second is pointing out someone else's WIFOM, not using it for my own, so thats stupid You call me a Vet, and you think that doing this would tell my alignment? NK shit: I don't care how you want to WIFOM around this, I have a very hard time thinking a scum team would leave Mattchew alone on N2 after he just wtfpwned Talis on day 2. He is a vet and a known good player. There was no N1 RB, so they could be reasonably sure that there was no JK. s&b does this fit with your early game thoughts on Marv? ;D Marv is generally regarded as a better player than me and Austin completely outplayed me LVI... they are both better with WAY less suspicions on them. But thanks for Batting back with NK WIFOM His dealings with Risen: Here is an older read on Risen: I question him on this. Risen has been making logic holes the size of Jupiter since his claim. A read, that lead off with the strength of Risen's logic and consistency, is not affected by Risen's recent logic and inconsistency? This really smells scummy. One last thing. Look at his opinion of the current state of the thread when we are talking about anything EXCEPT his top scum read: He thinks it's good that we are trying to find scum outside of gonzaw, even though he has already found it in gonzaw. This is stupid and untrue. I think that the day has been discussing the new information and therefore has been pretty productive. Also, my read on Risen is slightly less townie then before and during the night I plan to go back and read his filter assuming he is the cop, but that doesn't matter because regardless I WANT TO LYNCH SCUM TODAY. I said that people are talking about the lynch, which will help in making future reads. So, to sum up: 1. shitty day 1 scum hunting 2. extreme pursuit of Talis on day 2... 3. ...which doesn't match at all his pursuit of the gonzaw read 4. lack of pursuit on his 2nd main scumread 5. play which exhibits signs of Mattchew knowing people's alignment 6. very bad logic in his read on Risen 7. WIFOM batting us all 8. buddying 9. being alive after N2 I think Mattchew is scum and I want us to kill him today ##vote Mattchew TLDR 1. Wasn't around enough on the weekend to get a good start to the game. Played like shit day 1 is this alignment telling? 2. Yay I found scum! 3. We haven't actually completed the day and this day we have like 5 times more information than the last so its different 4. Is just number 3 again, but I haven't pushed anyone else and I still have time 5. I don't know where you point this out, but uh, how do I respond to something you just made up out of thin air? 6. My logic was not bad and I still believe that other than the Gonzaw read to stay alive gambit thingy, it is all still true, but that stiffles my focus on lynching Gonzaw 7. This is just untrue as I pointed out above 8. You either think I am stupid, or you realize this reasoning is stupid, you be the judge. 9. Night Kill WIFOM reasoning, right after number 7 too! | ||
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I still want responses to my case on Gonzaw, something s0lstice did not do. | ||
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Gonzaw to answer your question I could not have a care in the world TODAY who your teammate is. You seem to forget something (that I know you are smart enough to know), and that is that scum (OMG SHOCKING INFO AHEAD) can talk to each other and fake relationships in the thread! This is why connection theories like the awful ones you are flooding the thread with lose so many games for town. Guys, Gonzaw is scum. s0l what did you think of my response to your case? s&b what do you think of my case on gonzaw | ||
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Also what do you make of people lying about you pushing Talis | ||
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On July 19 2012 23:30 DropBear wrote: ??? I kind of did push talis on day 1, secondary to Vivax though. Same on day 2, I pushed solstice mostly with talis secondary. I never properly committed to a solely talis push, yes, but I brought him up regularly especially on day 1. I think your case against him is ok but not great. Kind of like solstice's case on you. I would lynch Keirathi over gonzaw and unless somewhere Risen has god-forbid actually answered my question, I would take Risen over both of them. S&B, this is why I think dropbear is town, do you think a scum would actaully say out loud that a scum member lynch took a backseat to a mislynch? Aren't scum supposed to be paranoid and afraid to share? Has dropbear lied or appeared fearful of posting in the thread? | ||
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On July 19 2012 23:51 s0Lstice wrote: also how are people ignoring the part of my case where Mattchew talks about his read on Risen? --read on Risen is based largely on consistency and logic --is Risen still displaying consistency and logic Mattchew? --not exactly, but that doesnt change my read in any way wtf???? woah, i said that it changed a little, but not nearly enough to make me think he is scum, or someone I would wanna lynch today. I want to lynch scum Gonzaw today, discussion of Risen's alignment can take place tonight when theres 7 town vs 1 scum | ||
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On July 19 2012 23:58 s0Lstice wrote: nope, here's what you said not changing in any way means....not changing in any way. I don't think there's much wiggle room there. Ugh I'm being hounded on a read that I honestly don't care about right now and gave a knee-jerk response to, to keep the focus of my discussions on Gonzaw What do you think of what I recently posted about Gonzaw? | ||
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I dont care about Risen's alignment today. He claimed cop, no one counter claimed, and no one has claimed any other blue role, which with a GF flip and no mason buddy claim makes me believe he is telling the truth. | ||
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On July 20 2012 00:39 sciberbia wrote: I have a couple quick points to make in Mattchew's defense. First of all, does this sound like scumbuddies talking? Not to me. This is a bad point, like really bad, I just said that scum can fake relationships. Judging on interactions is bad. On July 20 2012 00:52 s0Lstice wrote: sciberbia I don't see how that couldn't be two scummers talking to eachother. mattchew- I still find things about gonzaw that are scummy. I am much more confident in my read on you though, and I don't think it's likely that you are partners. So where is this confidence stemming from, the fact i sucked day 1? What did you think of my defense against your case? Was there illogical holes in there too? Did you think about how my buddying, not dying, your rushed view of my gonzaw push and your failed use of WIFOM against me were not points that were either right or alignment telling? | ||
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If he's telling the truth about being rb'd it's logical to think it was a scum rb | ||
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On July 20 2012 02:48 Keirathi wrote: woops I rushed.. It is unlikely Milton was jailed* ... The post has the same messageErr what? I never claimed that I was rb'd? :o | ||
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On July 20 2012 03:14 Risen wrote: ##unvote ##vote gonzaw If he's red I no longer want Matt lynched. I don't think he'd bus THIS hard. Also, I'm not being thick the message isn't the same bc you were just defending keir then swapped his name with miltons and said the message was the same. No it isn't, you're shady as fuck if Gonzaw flips green. Do you think Milton or keir would be jailed (Aka doc protected) | ||
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On July 20 2012 05:13 gonzaw wrote: Also Mattchew, you don't need to post "what are your thoughts about my case?" 100 times, it only makes you seem like you are active when in fact you are just repeating the same thing over and over when people already fucking read your case since it was 1 post long and it's not that hard to find in your filter. I want them to write opinions, in you know, the thread | ||
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On July 20 2012 06:24 Miltonkram wrote: Fuck it. I'm going for Mattchew. Here's why: - His reads haven't shifted much. I see this as scummy, not townie. I looked back and he was finding gonzaw scummy from, I believe, the middle of D2. - His attempt to take credit for the tali lynch. - He's avoided commenting on players outside of his tunnel-vision. I can see scum motivation for all these things. ##Unvote ##Vote: Mattchew A no-lynch vote... kool | ||
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On July 20 2012 06:46 gonzaw wrote: This would be a good time to post who you think is my scumbuddy I think your scum buddy is pretty easy to find if risen is actually a cop, or its risen | ||
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On July 20 2012 06:50 gonzaw wrote: Who is it? I don't see who is "pretty easy to find" Keirathi? Dropbear? Milton? Its called a numbers game you die, flip scum 7-1, 7 town, 3 with risen, so therefore scum lay within 4 people, keirathi, drop, milton, scib. scib is pretty obvious town, i shoulda known that leaving 3 people | ||
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On July 20 2012 06:57 Keirathi wrote: I haven't really found gonzaw scummy all game until today, and most of that was because of his early play after Risen claimed cop. I did, however, think Mattchew was scummy yesterday, and nothing he did today made him look more townie. I still think you are tied in with him too hard because he's been buddying you and copied your reads. Wow this is so scummy | ||
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On July 20 2012 06:58 Mattchew wrote: Its called a numbers game you die, flip scum 7-1, 7 town, 3 with risen, so therefore scum lay within 4 people, keirathi, drop, milton, scib. scib is pretty obvious town, i shoulda known that leaving 3 people Risen + s&b + s0l + scib lynch milton then keirathi then drop and gg cant lose | ||
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On July 20 2012 07:00 Risen wrote: Guess you should have jumped on the Keir train then. GODSPEED MATTCHEW, AND MAY THE OBS QT THREAD BE WELCOMING TO YOU. I'll be there soon, brother. no i lynch scum, not then lynch maybes | ||
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On July 21 2012 07:47 NoSmurfHere wrote: yeah I'm going to write up a more detailed postgame soon but the gist of it is this: scum were lazy. They had 0 presence, 0 influence, and 0 will to play. I know Mattchew didn't even want to play scum. Given that 1/3 of the scum team doesn't want to be scum and the other 2 for the most part play at about the same level, the only factor left is town. Because scum had no influence and town had confirming power roles (2 masons + cop) AND scum chose not to RB n1, the setup was very transparent. The lack of n1 RB forced the hand of mafia and it was a poor choice. Even if they wanted to (which I doubt they did) they could not fake a town RB or jailkeeper. In addition it was a race against the clock and scum lost because they were complacent. The townies who were "confirmed" were not at all confirmed (except for sciberbia, who didn't claim) but scum didn't take advantage of this. Scum didn't take advantage of Risen flip flopping. Scum didn't take advantage of the incorrectness of everyone who was not named austinmcc. The game wasn't won on analysis. It was merely won on luck. It could've been lost (for town) by luck just as easily. All the players must remember that. Kudos to austinmcc and marvellosity though. I would rate austin the best player of this game given that out of 4 scum reads on d1 he caught all 3 scum within them. I was actually busy day 1/night 1 so that sucked balls too | ||
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On July 21 2012 08:08 Risen wrote: This brings to mind another possibility. I mean shit, matt could have pushed a lynch on me EASY. Then Keir is the next to go no questions asked in my mind. I just can't wrap my head around why matt buddied me. All it did was make me think he was scum. it was to set up a win buddy risen, lynch gonzaw, kill like s0l and rb you (WIFOM s0l death) lynch keith, kill whoever, lynch you gg | ||
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