I Can't Believe it's not Themed MiniMafia

On July 13 2012 03:27 Mattchew wrote:

his effort and his not giving a fuck style

On June 07 2012 15:42 gonzaw wrote:
The thing is that when policy lynches haven't been enforced yet in previous games, starting to enforce them in a specific game creates a shitstorm and would most likely murder that game.

Imagine that a certain game starts, and everybody decides to policy lynch lurkers.
So you lynch your 1st lurker on D1. He would be most likely town, but no worries, you think everybody else will stop lurking by now and we solve the problem right?
Wrong, players that lurked until then will keep lurking (or being inactive for stuff from real life), and you'll keep policy lynching them throughout the game, most likely earning scum a win and making the game boring as hell.

Yes, if many games enforced a "lurkers" policy lynch, then the more time goes on the larger the probability of there being fewer and fewer lurkers in games. However that comes with the cost of maybe making each game it's implemented a total chaos, and those (specially town) that play those games want to win them, and they know that by just policy lynching lurkers that isn't achieved so there's less incentive to enforce them.

That was the "Lynch lurkers" policy, if you do the "Lynch blue claims" policy you'll do the same thing since blue claims will still start showing up (hi VE!) and you'll still end up lynching them and them flipping blue, again making the games more boring and shittier for town (or for scum if they wanted to make an epic play or something).


It's like being fat and starting to diet and exercise. You know it's good in the long run, but as soon as you start it you hate it because it ruins everything to you in the present and makes things uncomfortable.


So, is TL Mafia willing to drop weight or not? Maybe someone can spare a liposuction so we avoid this altogether >_>.

On July 16 2012 06:42 gonzaw wrote:


Yes you were, don't lie:

On July 16 2012 06:49 gonzaw wrote:


Not without explaining why you kept your vote on sciberbia (if you knew you weren't going to be back before the deadline) ro explaining anything at all or if you still thought sciberbia was scum.
Or anything at all basically. People not giving you an exact vote count isn't an excuse to waste your vote, leave the thread and come back 24 hours later without giving a shit about the lynch.

On July 16 2012 06:53 gonzaw wrote:


Mattchew did very similar stuff in MTG. He went AFK for the WHOLE D1 and he didn't give a fuck about being called out.

Him being afk itself isn't worrying, it's worrying when it's obvious he doesn't give a shit about anything and isn't even trying to explain himself about his inactivity and lack of effort.

I'm torn because his earlier posts did seem townie, but that behaviour of his strikes some doubt (specially if it wasn't for some outside reason, like getting his internet connection cut or something).
I'll try to drop the subject before reading this thread and his case on talis; but this is basically exclusive since it's about his earlier behaviour.



That was marv

On July 16 2012 07:01 gonzaw wrote:


Vivax wasn't the 100% sure lynch at that point. Dropbear already had votes, and to be honest you could have voted for someone else like austin, Keriathi, etc since they had votes as well.
What made you keep your vote on sciberbia and not even consider changing it? What made you not even discuss about it? Or were you in too much of a hurry to explain stuff? If so you could have mentioned you were in a hurry before so we'd avoid this whole mess

On July 16 2012 07:04 gonzaw wrote:


I'm talking about the action itself and how it isn't a "town tell" coming from Mattchew.
I said I'm reading the thread later (I'm not actually seriously accusing him right now, at least not before reading his other posts), I just want a (justified) explanation for that previous behaviour of his (you can't tell me it wasn't odd as fuck, everybody noticed it).

I already talked about his posting before his "derp", although I skimmed his posts afterwards (from this D2) and they aren't that "townie" as his first ones.

On July 16 2012 07:12 gonzaw wrote:


If he was scum and did it on purpose yes (if he's town then he obviously didn't think about it).



I guess you don't know scum Mattchew and what he's capable of. Some scum don't give a shit about slight "WIFOMy" suspicion on themselves if they can get it away easily later or shift attention elsewhere and keep doing what they do. Risen, Mattchew, Palmar, Ace, etc are some players that tend to act like that as scum every once and then



I don't know if its a busytell if I don't get a reasonable explanation for it. He WAS active when he made those posts, and there were lots of discussion going on about Vivax, Dropbear, Keirathi, solstice, etc. At that point in time (if he didn't just come, post and immediately leave) there were tons of things he could have done to help town, keeping his vote on sciberbia and not explaining anything isn't part of that.

Unless he was in such a hurry he only had time to post and not read the thread at all (and he still believed sciberbia was scum); then it's not a "busytell" and it's odd as fuck.

Him not explaining himself at all until I JUST asked him to is odd as fuck as well.

---

(damn, I see this is taking quite a detour in town discussion. Matt please explain EVERYTHING that went through your mind at that time and what you did (i.e what activity you had, if you were actually reading the thread or just posted and left, etc) so we can get this over with)

On July 16 2012 11:45 gonzaw wrote:
Okay, I've been rereading some stuff and I drop my suspicion of austin, I just can't see him as scum at the moment.
Some of that stuff you guys (sciberbia && austin) said makes sense. Plus what I said last night (that S&B's actions did make sense with him being overly frustrated at me, plus his suspicion of solstice and shit) it's likely he's town.

Okay, 2 conundrums resolved, now onto talismania/Dropbear/solstice/Mattchew/Risen/Keirathi

Just by gut feeling without reading those cases (again, sorry really don't have the time, I'm putting lots of effort in that other mafia game....hey if you guys want you can check it out if I link it to you, you can learn one thing or two ) I get the feeling the scum are there and nowhere else.
I haven't checked Milton too much, but I get a feeling he's town, specially because of his stance on talis which he changed after people pointed out how "bad" it was (in the sense that he was only talking about meta).
His case on Dropbear seems legit, since I can't really see him heavily accusing someone that considers him almost confirmed town as scum.

So by process of elimination (sciberbia, S&B, austin, Milton), it leaves those 6, with 3-4 anti town factions (scum+SK), so I think this day will be a good one.

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About Keirathi:
I get the feeling Keirathi is town but I'm not that sure, I wouldn't mind leaving him for later.
Basically, some of what I said earlier applies, in the sense that he didn't really try to scumhunt until being called out (by marv), and those reads seemed pretty bad (specially the one on S&B). After that he spent most of his time defending himself and not really trying to scumhunt. Plus since N1 and D2 I didn't see him do anything constructive at all (hell did he even post in D2?).
His defense of Vivax could have given him town points...but I'm not sure (scum opposing a town misslynch on D1 isn't uncommon at all).

There are little things that make me think he's town (I've explained them already I think), and tiny bits of reaction he made that I don't really see him making as scum. However those reactions were basically the only thing in his filter at some points, and there was very little scumhunting in between.
Now that I look at the tone of his posts it seems townie too me though (gut feeling) so maybe he's likely town

I just noticed this:


So I guess that's the reason he wasn't active.

Hmm, I'm slightly leaning town but I'm not that sure. Just like Risen I need him to actually do something today to solidify my read on him

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I already discussed Risen (I'm waiting for him to come back), and I'll discuss Mattchew a little bit:

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About Mattchew:





I like these since they are concise and give good info. Talis plan was bad and he immediately pointed out without dragging it on. He pointed out the "root" of my accusation and basically agreed with it, even though he was one of the guys I accused (and I mentioned before I wouldn't really expect this from scum Matt, I thought he'd either ignore it or shit on it).

His next posts are good as well, I like how he's not shitting on me and reads me okay by that point (that might be a little biased though ).

He does make contributions that are indeed "concise" and improve town's atmosphere. He even goes to great length to defend Vivax from marv even before the Vivax wagon started. As well as his read on S&B.
So far (assuming S&B is town) that would be a VERY passive game for Mattchew to make as scum, in the sense that he doesn't start shitting and accusing townies left and right, but actually making sense and getting those townies to be recognized as such.

His later posts don't really seem the same way (trying to improve town), yet seem more like slightly irrelevant one-liners. Him defending Dropbear and me does seem townie though.

However, after that he makes his blunder, where he posts asking for the vote count, but doesn't do shit and keeps his vote on sciberbia.
I found this extremely scummy because he WAS active then and as a townie would have cared more about the lynch (and his vote), yet he didn't seem to care.
I find it odd as well how now Mattchew seems to avoid that issue and not give me an explanation at all (was he really busy and in a hurry or was he lurking the thread at that point?) that could completely remove my suspicion on him (well not "completely" but I would disregard it).

I don't like this drunk post at all:



Since I don't know wtf he's saying and why he thinks I'm scum.



Here he posts sober but fails to explain his behaviour last day, even though he should have read that me+marv+others found it suspicious as fuck.

From then he seemed less interested in improving town's atmosphere than early-D1. He didn't explain himself at all, and throughout all N1 didn't do shit.

I may agree with his case on talis (need to filter talis first), but after that he doesn't really do a good job of explaining himself (about his behaviour or why he thinks I'm scum).
I don't like how he's casting suspicion on me right now either, yet refuses to say anything about me or why he changed his town read on me.

However, I could see town Mattchew just not caring about his D1 fluke and thinking I'm shitting up the thread about it (thus making him a little bit more suspicious of me), but those reasons above don't make me confident in thinking he's town at all, specially since I know Mattchew is capable of doing that "fluke" as scum just to skate by D1, whether other people find it scummy or not (he wouldn't really care as scum).

This is why I'm torn on him, and why I wanted that explanation from him.
I would also like an explanation on what he thinks of sciberbia ever since early-D1 and why he changed his mind on me (him not responding these strike me as suspicious as well, since again I can easily see scum Mattchew just not caring about it at this point).

He had a good start that made me think he was town but some of his actions and behaviour made me doubt that (since scum Matthew could have just tried to appear pro-town on early-D1 like that)

---

Holy shit that was long.

Anyways, I do feel solstice+talismania are scum, and well didn't really read on Dropbear yet (or these new cases) so I'll do it shortly.

I don't really know how to decipher the talis/Dropbear situation (if one is scum, or both are scum, etc), but I'll give it a try.

For now I wouldn't oppose a talismania lynch at all by what I've skimmed (plus talismania has basically been useless all late-D1, and all D2 as well).
I don't know if maybe I'd support a solstice lynch better, or if I change my mind and find Dropbear more scummy, but we'll see once I read the thread once and for all!

Stay tuned.

On July 16 2012 11:47 gonzaw wrote:
Fuck it I doubt I'll change my mind about talismania.

##Vote: talismania

Just wanted to get the vote out there for a more "official" standing of what I said before.

On July 19 2012 10:39 s0Lstice wrote:
I'm starting to like this game more, because I have found scum.

Listen up town, Mattchew is scum.



Let's start here. Look at what he tells s&b. Your posts thus far could come from either town or scum i.e. are neutral. He then goes on listing problems with it.

-longwinded
-off topic
-bad read
-bad reasoning for vote

...and the conclusion from this is neutral. After listing reasons for finding something suspicious, your end result should be 'I am suspicious of you.'

More, who accuses someone of not looking definitively town in their first few posts? Someone who already knows the alignment of the person they are addressing. It wasn't 's&b your first few posts are crap and scummy looking,' it was 's&b you haven't shown me you are town in your first few posts.'

Look now at what he did on day 1. This was basically his scum-hunting:





This would be a weak day 1 from anybody, but it is especially so from a vet. He leaves his vote on sciberbia and drops off the face of the earth.

Compare that now to day 2, where he goes balls to the wall trying to get Talismania lynched. He is sure of himself, he convinces others to get on board. He basically doesn't leave it alone until he gets what he wants: a Talis lynch. Have a look:









This is a mismatch, like he flipped a switch and all of a sudden he is a scum-finding machine. It also reeks again of Mattchew already knowing someone's alignment. Now let's move to after the lynch.



What is he doing here? Why does he care so much about who is getting the credit for Talis' lynch? What's more, he's justifying it to the person who he is the next most suspicious of after Talis' lynch. Why even bother? Because who is getting the credit directly affects how well Mattchew's bus on Talismania worked.

Now let's move on to night2/day2. He is supposedly trying to get Gonzaw lynched. Let's look at him pushing this case:





The end. That is, until I called him out on it, then he is all about getting us on-board. This does not match with how he was pushing Talis.

The early part of day 2 turned out to be a crucial time for Mattchew if he wanted his target lynched. At the time (earlier today) there was a lot of finger-pointing going on/discussion of things not gonzaw. I summarized it before, but I'll repeat it for shits and giggles.

-Dropbear wants to kill Risen
-s&b is suspicious of Risen
-risen is suspicious of keir
-we talk about the NK
-we talk about the set-up
-we talk about the mason claim

We are definitely not focusing on gonzaw at that time. So Mattchew should be seeking to get us on track. But instead he is doing this:



'Gonzaw, my #1 scum read, could you please post your suspicions of me again so I can address them?'

Doesn't fit. We were half way through day 2, starting to peel away from Mattchew's target, and he is asking his scum read to remake his case against him.

Now for some extraneous stuff:

-here's him swinging the WIFOM bat around:

Here's some buddying:

NK shit:

I don't care how you want to WIFOM around this, I have a very hard time thinking a scum team would leave Mattchew alone on N2 after he just wtfpwned Talis on day 2. He is a vet and a known good player. There was no N1 RB, so they could be reasonably sure that there was no JK.

s&b does this fit with your early game thoughts on Marv? ;D

His dealings with Risen:

Here is an older read on Risen:



I question him on this. Risen has been making logic holes the size of Jupiter since his claim.



A read, that lead off with the strength of Risen's logic and consistency, is not affected by Risen's recent logic and inconsistency? This really smells scummy.

One last thing. Look at his opinion of the current state of the thread when we are talking about anything EXCEPT his top scum read:




He thinks it's good that we are trying to find scum outside of gonzaw, even though he has already found it in gonzaw.