EPTAre you down with lynching gonzaw today?
I Can't Believe it's not Themed MiniMafia - Page 71
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sciberbia
United States1359 Posts
Are you down with lynching gonzaw today? | ||
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strongandbig
United States4858 Posts
but i still think keirathi is scummier but yeah im down to lynch gonzaw, if nothing else then for somehow managing to make "not reading the thread" into an art form ## unvote ## vote gonzaw | ||
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Miltonkram
United States310 Posts
Day 1: - He lightly defends talismania from pressure. - He clears talismania from suspicion for some flimsy reasoning. Goes so far as to say we shouldn't lynch him D1. About talismania: Talis' plan was "bad" but that alone doesn't make him scum. When he posted he seemed to interact with people in a genuine way I think. The way he was discussing the RB deal and shit made me think he was town, mostly because he was eager to discuss it and interact with me/others. I think he seems townie for now, so I wouldn't want him lynched D1. - Ends up voting Vivax. Night 1: - Announces he will post cases on S&B and talismania. - Posts a case on talismania. + Show Spoiler + I'm getting a little bit suspicious of talis because of his refusal to do anything constructive since he made his case on Dropbear. Him appearing sporadically ever since, posting some irrelevant stuff and one-liners don't make me feel any good. Not only that he seemed to purposefully ignore the Vivax issue at all when he was active. Basically, he "seeemed" pro town before this post: But after that his play crumbled. He spent a little time responding to Dropbear (more like responding to Dropbear's criticism though). Completely removal from the current town discussion and just tries to stay on his little own world of him FoSing Dropbear and that's it. That seemed suspicious After that he just seems to be "there"; not doing anything basically This post raised some flags because how out of context it was (regarding talis' previous posts), and how sudden and weird. Marv was being a pain in the ass to me (admit it >_> ) basically since the game started so him getting pissed about it made sense. But talis never made any comment about me "going on about the setup" and shit, so what the hell does he mean when he says that? There's no context (like with marv) where I know how talis thinks about me. Wtf is "how much of this stuff you can get away with"? What stuff? This seemed very out of place. Again, there was a Vivax vs Dropbear discussion going on and him posting this instead of trying to contribute to that discussion, he comes out of nowhere with an out of place post that doesn't do shit (it seriously reminds me of what S&B is doing this game, but I'll get to that later). After that it's just a bunch of pointless one-liners about not wanting to switch and shit. Like...they don't convince me at all; we are minutes before the lynch and he only has time to post some useless oneliners. What about the informative posts he made at the beginning of the game? Where the hell are those? This change in his play make me suspicious of him. ...however if Dropbear is scum it kinds of makes me doubt this suspicion as well (since that seemed a way too risky bus, since Dropbear COULD have been lynched). ....hmm, I'm starting to think that Dropbear might have been town after all and scum didn't really care about this lynch since it was between 2 townies. But I'll leave that out in the air and not dwell too much on that, Dropbear doesn't seem too townie to me and could easily be scum, but trying to make sense of this situation is kind of hard. Oh well shit I'll make a post about S&B next (this took a while) -Posts a case on S&B. States that he prefers a lynch on S&B. + Show Spoiler + On July 14 2012 13:32 gonzaw wrote: About S&B: I want to lynch this guy tomorrow. I've already posted some shit about his earlier posts (fluff and stuff) I don't like how he's accusing me, discrediting me and flinging shit at me every time he can. The worst thing is that it has only to do with setup talk. That's the only thing he's posting about me when he's accusing me, here: He only finds me suspicious because of the setup talk; and it's bullshit. Not only that but I already said he was way too overdramatic and "trying to be pro-town" with that last post of his. Again I don't like these accusations he has of me (he has mentioned 0 substance on why I'm scum). What's more, I don't like this "grudge" he has about me based on my play on MTG mafia (which he still refuses to explain). That "grudge" seems fake as hell. Every time I accuse him he acts all frustrated and posts "gonzaw you are always accusing me you are posting like a toilet, etc" I already posted before that this seems fake, since there is NO indication for him to be that frustrated at me (seriously, check my filter and find any reason why he would be that frustrated, or why he would be this frustrated instead of Keirath or Dropbear whom I actually "tunneled" more than him, hell I never even voted S&B). However he always finds the time to post that when I accuse him, and he just disregards everything I say with that. That seems like an obvious attempt to reflect attention, I can't accuse him of anything since he posts "oh you are accusing me again", acts like I'm tunneling him for no reason similarly to other games, and just drops the subject Scummy as fuck. His defense didn't seem "townie" at all since he was needlessly aggressive: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=351147¤tpage=15#292 It reminded me of Risen's defense on LIII, where i accused him and he acted all offended, aggressive and mighty and call me shit and stuff (Risen was scum there). Oh wait I'm not done. I'll say that S&B FoSed Keirathi initially, and then backed off him and that seems townie. Yet he can still do it as scum so I won't take it into account (based on all the rest scummy stuff he did). The tone of this post seems way too weird to me. With phrases like "trololol", the way he phrases stuff, etc don't make me think he's paying too much attention to the game or cares too much about it (if you disagree with this doesn't matter just ignore it). His reads seem way too weird as well, and he doesn't really back them up at all (his read on me, vivex, etc). His vote on solstice is very bad: He's using meta ALONE about something IRRELEVANT (he asks "more insightful questions" when he's town, and he's "asking questions" here....how the hell is that relevant?) It may seem like he did this post in a rush and was just reading stuff, thinking solstice was town, then rereading his filter and thinking he was scum and didn't have time to actually say why, but I don't really buy it. I already mentioned something about him in that talis post. He then posts sporadically and not interested in any discussion or being part of them at all. I mean, he comes out of nowhere to manipulate marv into going against solstice again Nice ninja-vote there that sealed Vivax's fate. Like, he seems too scummy and nothing like his play in MTG (he was more active in discussion there, his posts made more sense, he wasn't this "trollish" and he didn't just post out of nowhere with random stuff and didn't care about the current discussion, at least not when he was active). I could see him posting some stuff as town (like asking me about why I'm "not caring" about the setup, flip-flopping on his solstice read in that post seems like he was a townie changing his mind quickly, him backing off keiarth), but his attitude and content convince me otherwise. Sorry if this was long but I had a LOT of things to say about S&B Day 2: - Does the gonzaw thing. - I believe he is the 3rd to vote talismania after both austinmcc and sciberbia. Now let's analyze his actions. He states he doesn't want a talismania lynch D1. It's possible that he was defending his scumbuddy. Not much more to say about it. Moving on to N2, he makes cases against both S&B and tali, stating that the case against S&B is the one he favors. This is a really safe play by scum. It puts his effort behind an S&B lynch, while still leaving him open to bus tali if the situation called for it. On Day 3 he votes for talismania after throwing out pressure on Mattchew and DropBear. What was the tipping point for gonzaw? On July 16 2012 12:41 gonzaw wrote: Before going into the talis/solstice stuff, a question for sciberbia: Why is it you think me and talis are "linked as scumbuddies"? Other than that what "gut feeling" do you get about me? He noticed that sciberbia was connecting him and talismania, and thus voted tali in order to try and break that connection. | ||
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gonzaw
Uruguay4911 Posts
On July 19 2012 20:39 strongandbig wrote: This is egregious. Every time a framer has been mentioned in a thread since I've started playing TL mafia, someone has mentioned the possibility of framing their teammates; there's no reason to assume the opposite so blithely. It's just, like, enough is enough - at a certain point we have to assume that this is malicious. I just can't decide what the odds are that Gonzaw would actually do as much work as he is claiming and posting without even reading the OP. Yet has never happened right? If someone mentions in a thread "A Godfather may be able to vig shot a Goon to be bulletproof for 3 nights, right?" it doesn't mean it can happen if it never happened in any TL game at all. If this is malicious intent from me then I'm a pretty shitty scum since the only way I intend to be malicious of is trying to confuse you guys about the setup even when you guys seem to be omniscient about it every time I post. On July 20 2012 00:39 sciberbia wrote: @Miltonkram Yea I found that suspicious as well. Think about it from talis's point of view. If talis is scum and gonzaw is town, wouldn't talis love for us all to not trust gonzaw? Why would he go out of his way to make dumb reasons to bolster a town gonzaw's credibility? At the same time, this also makes me suspicious of s0Lstice who did some peculiar townhunting on gonzaw D1. Though, at least s0Lstice had some better reasons IMO. I have a couple quick points to make in Mattchew's defense. First of all, does this sound like scumbuddies talking? Not to me. talis never mentioned Mattchew again so it's very possible. I'm trying not to take those "interactions" into account too much (other than Mattchew heavily defending Dropbear, but like I said I'm still not sure, although I'm kind of leaning town on him). Okay...can someone at least read what I posted about Mattchew? solstice isn't the only one. *sig* why do I keep getting ignored in here. Thoughts on anything...anything else I posted are welcomed too. Also Mattchew, you don't need to post "what are your thoughts about my case?" 100 times, it only makes you seem like you are active when in fact you are just repeating the same thing over and over when people already fucking read your case since it was 1 post long and it's not that hard to find in your filter. On July 20 2012 02:14 sciberbia wrote: I don't think risen would be the worst lynch ever, but think about it. If he fips scum, we probably lynch gonzaw tomorrow. If he flips cop, we probably lynch gonzaw tomorrow. So why don't we just lynch gonzaw today, and give risen the chance to get another check if he really is cop? No, just no. READ what I posted for christ's sake This is futile god dammit, I can't believe it. On July 20 2012 02:44 Mattchew wrote: So as people start to wane and move away from Gonzaw where is he to help dictate and direct town? I'm fucking sleeping you jerk When I was up (up until like 4 am trying to post and shit mind you) I was making posts and posts with all my thoughts and shit to prove I'm town I already said I can't do anything else, I already did anything I could. About Keirathi I guess he could be scum and is tricking me with his "townie" posts. *sigh* I don't know right now, I already said I think he's town even when he derped with the talis lynch. If someone would care to read ANYTHING of what I posted about Mattchew (this is fucking pissing me off really) I'd be EXTREMELY happy. Here I'll even make it easier for you (I already linked my "thoughts" about Mattchew but they were completely ignored again, *sigh* ) FUCKING READ THIS, IF NOT I'LL HAUNT YOUR SOULS WHEN I'M GONE: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=351147¤tpage=41#818 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=351147¤tpage=48#958 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=351147¤tpage=62#1228 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=351147¤tpage=64#1268 I'm not changing my vote. I'm trying to think if I'm "tunneling" a townie Mattchew somehow but I doubt it, and even in that case I don't know who to vote other than him, maybe Milton. Actually no, I'm keeping my vote on him, I'll only consolidate on Keirathi if there is a chance of NL. Disclaimer: NL today is just as bad as misslynch. We are at 7v2 right now, misslynch is 5v2 and NL is 6v2 next day. If we misslynch in both cases, it's 3v2 and 4v2, both MYLOs, which are basically the same (even then, MYLO is worse to us than LYLO, since scum have 1 more suspect in the table to accuse or 1 more person to trick). So a misslynch today is actually better than a NL. Hell if I'm the lynch candidate at the end of the day with 4 votes I'll hammer me myself. ..actually no I won't misslynch myself for principle (I don't want to ever be misslynch). Argh actually I don't know, either help town open their fucking mind and win the game, or avoid getting misslynched as town yet have it harder for town to win later since I'm sure it will be basically the same fucking thing over again  I don't know, if the time comes I'll think about it a little bit more | ||
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Mattchew
United States5684 Posts
On July 20 2012 05:13 gonzaw wrote: Also Mattchew, you don't need to post "what are your thoughts about my case?" 100 times, it only makes you seem like you are active when in fact you are just repeating the same thing over and over when people already fucking read your case since it was 1 post long and it's not that hard to find in your filter. I want them to write opinions, in you know, the thread | ||
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gonzaw
Uruguay4911 Posts
You are just telling people what I did. Yes I defended talis from pressure on D1, yes I said I wouldn't want him lynched on D1, yes I voted Vivax ....so? Why does that make me scum? Are you willing to state why the fuck I'm scum? You are just explaining what I did and somehow using it to show I'm scum, and also using confirmation bias to do so? That's not how it works It's possible that he was defending his scumbuddy He noticed that sciberbia was connecting him and talismania, and thus voted tali in order to try and break that connection. There are confirmation bias and you can't base a case on this at all. Yes, me and talis being scum is not impossible, neither is you and sciberbia being scum, nor Risen and Dropbear being scum, nor talis and solstice being scum, etc. I'm sure if you go with the "Okay let's assume X is scum....let's see what I find that is consistent with that so I can explain why it is" mindset you won't do shit since you can do that with ANY player in the game. Moving on to N2, he makes cases against both S&B and tali, stating that the case against S&B is the one he favors. This is a really safe play by scum. It puts his effort behind an S&B lynch, while still leaving him open to bus tali if the situation called for it. Ehmm...no Read N2 again, I'm clearly backing off pushing S&B at that time and having mixed feelings about him. At all I'm leaning more on "bussing" talis than acccusing S&B or anything else. Are you scum Milton? Your play this past day seems to indicate so to me | ||
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gonzaw
Uruguay4911 Posts
On July 20 2012 05:19 Mattchew wrote: I want them to write opinions, in you know, the thread I thought everybody voting me and making huge "he's bussing talismania" posts would be enough? Your case is "bad" (the 1st half of it is uber bad, really, it's confirmation bias at its finest), the only "remotely interesting" thing is what you wrote about my behaviour on D2 regarding talis, but everything else is bad and you haven't even posted ANYTHING that makes me scum other than that. | ||
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gonzaw
Uruguay4911 Posts
"Ehmm...no Read N1 again, I'm clearly backing off pushing S&B at that time and having mixed feelings about him. At all I'm leaning more on "bussing" talis than acccusing S&B or anything else. Are you scum Milton? Your play this past day seems to indicate so to me" | ||
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gonzaw
Uruguay4911 Posts
Fuck it I'll just lurk any game from now on, ever since Bang Bang I had a feeling that "oh he posting a lot doesn't make him town because he does the same thing as scum.....yeah let's ignore everything he said and lynch him" sentiment that happens in UG as well would transfer. *calms down* *breathes* This isn't helping at all, but damn I'm angry. Anyways, I've already posted everything I could, I seriously don't know what else to do. | ||
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s0Lstice
United States1832 Posts
Its getting close though, we need a lynch. | ||
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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
1) Mattchew: His case against talis was weak. Scib's case was much stronger, but Matt tried to take credit for the lynch. I have no trouble believe Matt could/would bus his teamate on day2, especially just a few hours after a townie came out and made a big case. It's also a bit worrisome (and WIFOM) that towards the end of the day, sciberbia mentioned that he was going to be pushing gonzaw today, and then again not longer after sciberbia laid out his case, Matt follows in with a case again. 2) Gonzaw: I was willing to vote him at the start of the day because I legitimately read Risen's cop claim post as "I have a red check on gonzaw" (I assume s0l did too, since he hopped on the wagon too). His early posting after the claim was pretty ridiculous and I find it hard to believe that town gonzaw didn't realize Risen was claiming cop, but his posting later in the day really feels like desperation. Not that mafia don't get desperate when they are close to being voted, but I dunno. I can't shake the feeling that the talis connections are being blown out of proportion and that gonzaw is fighting so hard to save himself because he is town. 3) Risen: I think I've made it perfectly clear that I think there was no reason whatsoever for a real cop to claim. You had virtually no chance of getting shot that night if you hadn't said #whatacopout, so for someone "trying hard not to get shot", that seems like something suspiciously bad to be saying. But for all that, I'm just not sure a scum would play that stupid. Maybe they have some master plan such as this, but it seems like such a huge risk. I also don't like how he gave himself outs ("if gonzaw flips red, Matt is scum, if he flips green, keir/scib are scum"). Anyways I've pointed out my problems with him for most of my filter for today, which is significantly long. 4) Milton: Holy shit this post looks bad. As much as the cases against gonzaw look scummy, theres no way I would say he's spewing shit and half-baked opinions all over the thread. The roleblock claim is weird, but I can't necessarily think it is scummy if there's the possibility that marv was RB'd and shot night 1. scib/s0lstice/s&b/drop are all conditionally townie to me atm. | ||
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Miltonkram
United States310 Posts
On July 20 2012 05:24 gonzaw wrote: EBWOP: "Ehmm...no Read N1 again, I'm clearly backing off pushing S&B at that time and having mixed feelings about him. At all I'm leaning more on "bussing" talis than acccusing S&B or anything else. Are you scum Milton? Your play this past day seems to indicate so to me" At the beginning of your case against him you state, "I want to lynch this guy tomorrow." I took that as meaning that he was your top scum read at the time. Later on I do see that you back off of him a bit. I missed that part. My apologies. My latest case against you was meant to show how your line of play makes sense as scum. I think it does. | ||
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Risen
United States7927 Posts
Regardless, I'm about 80% sure you'll flip green ill get shot and town will derp an easy win into a loss. | ||
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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
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s0Lstice
United States1832 Posts
I will only vote for gonzaw if it's between that and a no-lynch | ||
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s0Lstice
United States1832 Posts
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Risen
United States7927 Posts
On July 20 2012 05:47 Keirathi wrote: Also I just want to say again that Mason: I hate you. Yup, this too. Hey derp mason so worried about getting shot, they have to kill me tonight not you. I can only see you not outing yourself bc you think I claimed to draw you out, which is stupid considering I would be trading myself for you. Im super mad if mason claims and isn't on my confirmed town list, bc it's a p easy win for us if you had just claimed. Less mad if you're in confirmed town list since it wouldn't matter as you're already confirmed town. | ||
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Miltonkram
United States310 Posts
I've considered the Mattchew lynch. There are things about his play that don't sit well with me, but I've given him the BOTD because his case against gonzaw was pretty good. If you can drum up support, I'll consider him. | ||
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Risen
United States7927 Posts
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Risen
United States7927 Posts
On July 20 2012 06:03 Miltonkram wrote: @ s0Lstice I've considered the Mattchew lynch. There are things about his play that don't sit well with me, but I've given him the BOTD because his case against gonzaw was pretty good. If you can drum up support, I'll consider him. >.> <.< | ||
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