EPTI Can't Believe it's not Themed MiniMafia - Page 4
| Forum Index > TL Mafia |
|
Mattchew
United States5684 Posts
| ||
|
Mattchew
United States5684 Posts
On July 17 2012 06:40 s0Lstice wrote: @mattchew, you have zero doubts about this? I think that Talis is our best option for a lynch and has a higher chance than anyone else in the game of flipping scum | ||
|
Mattchew
United States5684 Posts
On July 17 2012 06:43 s0Lstice wrote: also @mattchew, I'd like to know your thoughts on Risen After the flip and later tonight. For now, we lynch Talis. GTG | ||
|
Mattchew
United States5684 Posts
| ||
|
Mattchew
United States5684 Posts
On July 17 2012 10:05 sciberbia wrote: @Mattchew Are you still suspicious of me? I'm just wondering since you haven't really talked about me in forever... I'm working on a response to keirathi atm. You started the lynch on now confirmed scum. I do not think you are scum any longer. | ||
|
Mattchew
United States5684 Posts
On July 17 2012 10:18 s0Lstice wrote: Mattchew, I'm still waiting for your read on risen. Working on it | ||
|
Mattchew
United States5684 Posts
| ||
|
Mattchew
United States5684 Posts
His reads are constantly evolving and changing more WAY more than when I played with him as scum, and he basically started and got Vivax lynched. While I didn't agree with the lynch + Show Spoiler + This leads me to my next scum candidate. Gonzaw. I was waiting to push this until Talis flipped because A. I wanted to see if he was scum and B. I wanted to keep the conversation on Talis. I will make my case before deadline tomorrow. I have a lot of it mapped out in my head just not written down yet and I want to keep up with the fast pace of Bureaurcracy Mafia tonight | ||
|
Mattchew
United States5684 Posts
| ||
|
Mattchew
United States5684 Posts
But later (after your D1 fiasco) you just parked your vote on talis, and spent 80% of your posts just going "what do you think of talis" or "vote talis" or "I want talis dead" or "talis talis talis". Like, no offense to scib, but I would put a lot of the weight on Talis actually getting lynched on me forcing attention onto him. Scib's case was good and all, but would you agree that without me pushing individuals (not just HEY THREAD I MADE A CASE) was the real reason for all the votes on Talis? I wanted to get Talis lynched, something you flipflopped on a lot which I am extremely suspicious of. I think I did a pretty good job of bringing people from "I would lynch x,x, and talis," to actually voting and getting on Talis. But thats enough for patting myself on the back. | ||
|
Mattchew
United States5684 Posts
On July 17 2012 12:30 gonzaw wrote: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=351147¤tpage=38#744 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=351147¤tpage=38#753 He made his case before and he spent all day actively discussing it, discussing other points about talis and about other potential lynch candidates and why he preferred talis lynched instead of them (he did this several times with S&B, you, and someone else I think), so I don't think you can take the credit like you are doing now. "Wanting talis lynched" is no confirmation of you being town and you know it. You didn't actively push it but just asked people about it basically. I don't think anybody used your case alone as a basis to vote talis. I also think Dropbear mentioned some points about it before you, and like I said your case was just based around his accusation of Dropbear. I'll consider it though. What made you have that chance in attitude from early D1 to now? Why didn't you talk about anything other than talis last day? I don't think I ever flip-flopped on talis, I found him suspicious on N1, and when I started skimming the thread I didn't notice anything changing my mind, so I decide to address other issues I did have some trouble with (namely S&B, Risen, you, then Dropbaer, and solstice), by reading filters while I was reading the thread. I'll try and reread Milton/solstice later, it's possible there's a scum there. I'm not too sure about Risen now since he made it 7 votes which made it impossible for a single guy to save talis (by unvoting). But well he HAD to vote or be modkilled so it's not that telling perhaps. I do think it gives S&B more cred, since he could have easily said "I don't buy the talis lynch let's lynch Dropbear" and disappear later while putting talis at 5, but he was the hammer. Actually, wanting talis dead is a town tell. Thats how you differentiate between scum bussing and town pushing. Day 1 my read on Scib wasn't that strong (and I now believe it was incorrect) so I was a little more all over the place. Day 2 I was more sure and wanted to focus the thread on just Talis I wanted talis lynched, The thread was actively discussing this, so I either butt in to push his lynch or I just sat back and watched him get lynched. I said this already here On July 17 2012 06:39 Mattchew wrote: We have 7 on talis, i think he's scum. He should die. Would you like any other opinions from me? And yeah I probably took too much credit from scib... meh <3 he's my bud now <3 | ||
|
Mattchew
United States5684 Posts
On July 12 2012 09:36 gonzaw wrote: So, if the lynch was right now I'd want to kill one of these 3 guys: You can see the recurring theme in all 3 (just 1 post, promising something/appearing they are eager to start but not doing anything else later). marv, talismania, anybody active, what do you think about these guys? If you had to kill one of them which one would you choose and why? (if you don't want to kill anyone then say so). Also this guy could die too: But at least he put a little bit more effort (although that's not town-telling) Dropbear and Milton haven't even posted, but well we can't do anything about it. This is his first attempt at scum hunting. It is lazy and general, making "cases" on multiple people and trying to shift conversation onto those who haven't posted much instead of actually reading into the people that have posted actively at that point in the game. He is basically saying lets lynch the lurkers, something in the Policy lynching thread he said would lead to town losses + Show Spoiler + On June 07 2012 15:42 gonzaw wrote: The thing is that when policy lynches haven't been enforced yet in previous games, starting to enforce them in a specific game creates a shitstorm and would most likely murder that game. Imagine that a certain game starts, and everybody decides to policy lynch lurkers. So you lynch your 1st lurker on D1. He would be most likely town, but no worries, you think everybody else will stop lurking by now and we solve the problem right? Wrong, players that lurked until then will keep lurking (or being inactive for stuff from real life), and you'll keep policy lynching them throughout the game, most likely earning scum a win and making the game boring as hell. Yes, if many games enforced a "lurkers" policy lynch, then the more time goes on the larger the probability of there being fewer and fewer lurkers in games. However that comes with the cost of maybe making each game it's implemented a total chaos, and those (specially town) that play those games want to win them, and they know that by just policy lynching lurkers that isn't achieved so there's less incentive to enforce them. That was the "Lynch lurkers" policy, if you do the "Lynch blue claims" policy you'll do the same thing since blue claims will still start showing up (hi VE!) and you'll still end up lynching them and them flipping blue, again making the games more boring and shittier for town (or for scum if they wanted to make an epic play or something). It's like being fat and starting to diet and exercise. You know it's good in the long run, but as soon as you start it you hate it because it ruins everything to you in the present and makes things uncomfortable. So, is TL Mafia willing to drop weight or not? Maybe someone can spare a liposuction so we avoid this altogether >_>. On July 12 2012 10:51 gonzaw wrote: Well....okay I don't know what else to say? I found you guys suspicious because of that, so unless someone thinks Vivax+solstice+sciberbia+talis+keirtaht could be scum one of you HAS to be scum basically (even based on numbers alone) Anyone see a name that sticks out in this post? Again with lazy scum hunting equivicating effort in the thread to alignment something he SAYS But at least he put a little bit more effort (although that's not town-telling) So heres a nice lumping of a scum player into a group of names while contradicting himselfOn July 13 2012 12:16 gonzaw wrote: Hmm, I'm thinking about switching my vote to either Dropbear or Keirath. Dropbear tried to act all "tough" and shit but I get the impression he only tried to spout as many stuff as he could about plans/etc and trying to create some chaos by accusing people or discrediting plans/accusations. His vote on Vivax is a joke (some people already went over this), and he hasn't done anything that makes me think he actually cares about town discussion, his posts just seem to appear like he's there doing something since he's so aggressive about it, but nothing else. I get the feeling Keirath is more likely scum. Like Matt said his reads seemed "forced", in the way that they weren't much reads at all. At least S&B's read, where Kei calls him suspicious but townie at the same time (and calls him suspicious for some bad reasons I think). He seems fixated on "meta" somehow, thinking all of us are using "meta" to catch scum (we are not). His defense of Milkton seemed out of place as well (like it came out of nowhere and he defended him just because of "meta" again, hell I don't even know why he's defending him). Like said before his posts are too verbose, but trying to blend in IMO. He also spends quite time just defending himself which I don't particularly like (he could have been pushing for other reads at that time). Let's go with this, but I'd be happy with a switch on Dropbear to be honest (hmm, I think S&B could be scum as well, but I'll wait till he comes back) ##Unvote: austinmcc ##Vote: Keirath On July 13 2012 12:29 gonzaw wrote: My bad, I just noticed it. The thing is that it's like he thought Risen was town even in that 1st post of his, but maybe it's his own weird way of being suspicious Hmm, okay, I think I'll let austin slide, it does seem he posts like this when he's town, and him being a noob could explain him being all over talismania for something irrelevant. These two posts are where he drops suspicions on Austin, his strongest read from before. After posting a ton about him being scummy, his reasoning for him not thinking austin is scum is a small one liner. This looks more like scum admitting defeat on their attempt at a mislynch then town changing their mind, especially a town gonzaw (mind you we don't know austin's alignment) On July 14 2012 06:54 gonzaw wrote: This is fucking balls, I don't want a NL at all costs, but I doubt Dropbear will get more votes I kind of want to lynch S&B to be honest, I've skimmed these last few pages and he just wasn't active in conversations at all even when active and just posted ARg fucking hell And you get off my fucking back this is not easy, I have to blindly vote one of those 2 without even reading what they posted Well fuck this shit if Vivax flips town it should be a monument of how shitty this day seems ##Unvote: Dropbear ##Vote: Vivax This is gonzaw's vote on Vivax day 1. This is not as telling of his alignment as many of the other things but it still is questionable. He has what he believes are 3 solid scum reads, Keithrathi, S&B, and Dropbear, yet votes someone else just for the sake of having a lynch. I can't tell if this was irresponsible or scummy. On July 14 2012 08:11 gonzaw wrote: How about the whole D3 of MTG Mafia? I don't get why you are so hung up on this, I haven't even "tunneled" you nor even voted for you for christ sake, but every time I talk about you you pull out the "Oh gonzaw is FoSing me of course he is" card. This isn't a lie per-say but he has been pushing for his lynch for a while. He even said right after Vivax flipped that he REALLY wanted to lynch S&B, which is either a lie or a vote (just not techinically) On July 16 2012 06:28 gonzaw wrote: Okay got back. Skimming the thread, I got a weird feeling of solstice going against S&B, but that's maybe because I got a change of mind about S&B and wanted to give him a little break. I see Mattchew just came right off the bat with a case and a vote...and I don't know if I like that (I didn't see him explaining wtf he did last day). Anyways, gonna sort some stuff here in my house, do stuff for the other mafia game I'm playing, and get back here. Dunno about talis yet, I'm having some difficulty trying to figure out the whole tails/Dropbear/solstice situation; but I'll make sure to read on that. This is the first post Gonzaw makes after me and scib make our cases and talis makes his awful responses to them. He then follows that post up with all of this discussion of where I was during the day 1 lynch, instead of talking about Talis (who he even supposidly found suspicious the night before. Why isn't he focused on the scum hunting going on in the thread instead of a mattchew whereabouts witchhunt + Show Spoiler + On July 16 2012 06:42 gonzaw wrote: Yes you were, don't lie: On July 16 2012 06:49 gonzaw wrote: Not without explaining why you kept your vote on sciberbia (if you knew you weren't going to be back before the deadline) ro explaining anything at all or if you still thought sciberbia was scum. Or anything at all basically. People not giving you an exact vote count isn't an excuse to waste your vote, leave the thread and come back 24 hours later without giving a shit about the lynch. On July 16 2012 06:53 gonzaw wrote: Mattchew did very similar stuff in MTG. He went AFK for the WHOLE D1 and he didn't give a fuck about being called out. Him being afk itself isn't worrying, it's worrying when it's obvious he doesn't give a shit about anything and isn't even trying to explain himself about his inactivity and lack of effort. I'm torn because his earlier posts did seem townie, but that behaviour of his strikes some doubt (specially if it wasn't for some outside reason, like getting his internet connection cut or something). I'll try to drop the subject before reading this thread and his case on talis; but this is basically exclusive since it's about his earlier behaviour. That was marv On July 16 2012 07:01 gonzaw wrote: Vivax wasn't the 100% sure lynch at that point. Dropbear already had votes, and to be honest you could have voted for someone else like austin, Keriathi, etc since they had votes as well. What made you keep your vote on sciberbia and not even consider changing it? What made you not even discuss about it? Or were you in too much of a hurry to explain stuff? If so you could have mentioned you were in a hurry before so we'd avoid this whole mess On July 16 2012 07:04 gonzaw wrote: I'm talking about the action itself and how it isn't a "town tell" coming from Mattchew. I said I'm reading the thread later (I'm not actually seriously accusing him right now, at least not before reading his other posts), I just want a (justified) explanation for that previous behaviour of his (you can't tell me it wasn't odd as fuck, everybody noticed it). I already talked about his posting before his "derp", although I skimmed his posts afterwards (from this D2) and they aren't that "townie" as his first ones. On July 16 2012 07:12 gonzaw wrote: If he was scum and did it on purpose yes (if he's town then he obviously didn't think about it). I guess you don't know scum Mattchew and what he's capable of. Some scum don't give a shit about slight "WIFOMy" suspicion on themselves if they can get it away easily later or shift attention elsewhere and keep doing what they do. Risen, Mattchew, Palmar, Ace, etc are some players that tend to act like that as scum every once and then I don't know if its a busytell if I don't get a reasonable explanation for it. He WAS active when he made those posts, and there were lots of discussion going on about Vivax, Dropbear, Keirathi, solstice, etc. At that point in time (if he didn't just come, post and immediately leave) there were tons of things he could have done to help town, keeping his vote on sciberbia and not explaining anything isn't part of that. Unless he was in such a hurry he only had time to post and not read the thread at all (and he still believed sciberbia was scum); then it's not a "busytell" and it's odd as fuck. Him not explaining himself at all until I JUST asked him to is odd as fuck as well. (damn, I see this is taking quite a detour in town discussion. Matt please explain EVERYTHING that went through your mind at that time and what you did (i.e what activity you had, if you were actually reading the thread or just posted and left, etc) so we can get this over with) Look at this post here. Its a lengthy diatribe about myself and Keithrathi, followed by FINALLY a mentioning of his suspicions on Talis. It seems like this was literally forced out of him, and its not like he even mentions any reasons for thinking the way he does. He seems to be trying to go with the flow, but not pushing it at all. He literally does not add anything to the Talis lynch other than his vote. + Show Spoiler + On July 16 2012 11:45 gonzaw wrote: Okay, I've been rereading some stuff and I drop my suspicion of austin, I just can't see him as scum at the moment. Some of that stuff you guys (sciberbia && austin) said makes sense. Plus what I said last night (that S&B's actions did make sense with him being overly frustrated at me, plus his suspicion of solstice and shit) it's likely he's town. Okay, 2 conundrums resolved, now onto talismania/Dropbear/solstice/Mattchew/Risen/Keirathi Just by gut feeling without reading those cases (again, sorry really don't have the time, I'm putting lots of effort in that other mafia game....hey if you guys want you can check it out if I link it to you, you can learn one thing or two  ) I get the feeling the scum are there and nowhere else.I haven't checked Milton too much, but I get a feeling he's town, specially because of his stance on talis which he changed after people pointed out how "bad" it was (in the sense that he was only talking about meta). His case on Dropbear seems legit, since I can't really see him heavily accusing someone that considers him almost confirmed town as scum. So by process of elimination (sciberbia, S&B, austin, Milton), it leaves those 6, with 3-4 anti town factions (scum+SK), so I think this day will be a good one. About Keirathi: I get the feeling Keirathi is town but I'm not that sure, I wouldn't mind leaving him for later. Basically, some of what I said earlier applies, in the sense that he didn't really try to scumhunt until being called out (by marv), and those reads seemed pretty bad (specially the one on S&B). After that he spent most of his time defending himself and not really trying to scumhunt. Plus since N1 and D2 I didn't see him do anything constructive at all (hell did he even post in D2?). His defense of Vivax could have given him town points...but I'm not sure (scum opposing a town misslynch on D1 isn't uncommon at all). There are little things that make me think he's town (I've explained them already I think), and tiny bits of reaction he made that I don't really see him making as scum. However those reactions were basically the only thing in his filter at some points, and there was very little scumhunting in between. Now that I look at the tone of his posts it seems townie too me though (gut feeling) so maybe he's likely town I just noticed this: So I guess that's the reason he wasn't active. Hmm, I'm slightly leaning town but I'm not that sure. Just like Risen I need him to actually do something today to solidify my read on him I already discussed Risen (I'm waiting for him to come back), and I'll discuss Mattchew a little bit: About Mattchew: I like these since they are concise and give good info. Talis plan was bad and he immediately pointed out without dragging it on. He pointed out the "root" of my accusation and basically agreed with it, even though he was one of the guys I accused (and I mentioned before I wouldn't really expect this from scum Matt, I thought he'd either ignore it or shit on it). His next posts are good as well, I like how he's not shitting on me and reads me okay by that point (that might be a little biased though ).He does make contributions that are indeed "concise" and improve town's atmosphere. He even goes to great length to defend Vivax from marv even before the Vivax wagon started. As well as his read on S&B. So far (assuming S&B is town) that would be a VERY passive game for Mattchew to make as scum, in the sense that he doesn't start shitting and accusing townies left and right, but actually making sense and getting those townies to be recognized as such. His later posts don't really seem the same way (trying to improve town), yet seem more like slightly irrelevant one-liners. Him defending Dropbear and me does seem townie though. However, after that he makes his blunder, where he posts asking for the vote count, but doesn't do shit and keeps his vote on sciberbia. I found this extremely scummy because he WAS active then and as a townie would have cared more about the lynch (and his vote), yet he didn't seem to care. I find it odd as well how now Mattchew seems to avoid that issue and not give me an explanation at all (was he really busy and in a hurry or was he lurking the thread at that point?) that could completely remove my suspicion on him (well not "completely" but I would disregard it). I don't like this drunk post at all: Since I don't know wtf he's saying and why he thinks I'm scum. Here he posts sober but fails to explain his behaviour last day, even though he should have read that me+marv+others found it suspicious as fuck. From then he seemed less interested in improving town's atmosphere than early-D1. He didn't explain himself at all, and throughout all N1 didn't do shit. I may agree with his case on talis (need to filter talis first), but after that he doesn't really do a good job of explaining himself (about his behaviour or why he thinks I'm scum). I don't like how he's casting suspicion on me right now either, yet refuses to say anything about me or why he changed his town read on me. However, I could see town Mattchew just not caring about his D1 fluke and thinking I'm shitting up the thread about it (thus making him a little bit more suspicious of me), but those reasons above don't make me confident in thinking he's town at all, specially since I know Mattchew is capable of doing that "fluke" as scum just to skate by D1, whether other people find it scummy or not (he wouldn't really care as scum). This is why I'm torn on him, and why I wanted that explanation from him. I would also like an explanation on what he thinks of sciberbia ever since early-D1 and why he changed his mind on me (him not responding these strike me as suspicious as well, since again I can easily see scum Mattchew just not caring about it at this point). He had a good start that made me think he was town but some of his actions and behaviour made me doubt that (since scum Matthew could have just tried to appear pro-town on early-D1 like that) Holy shit that was long. Anyways, I do feel solstice+talismania are scum, and well didn't really read on Dropbear yet (or these new cases) so I'll do it shortly. I don't really know how to decipher the talis/Dropbear situation (if one is scum, or both are scum, etc), but I'll give it a try. For now I wouldn't oppose a talismania lynch at all by what I've skimmed (plus talismania has basically been useless all late-D1, and all D2 as well). I don't know if maybe I'd support a solstice lynch better, or if I change my mind and find Dropbear more scummy, but we'll see once I read the thread once and for all! Stay tuned. On July 16 2012 11:47 gonzaw wrote: Fuck it I doubt I'll change my mind about talismania. ##Vote: talismania Just wanted to get the vote out there for a more "official" standing of what I said before. On July 17 2012 06:51 gonzaw wrote: Well damn, I wasn't expecting that. Fuck I'm not too confident on this one right now, but it's either talis or NL. Hmm, damn. So now, not when we are mislynching, does the weight of a No Lynch is really weigh on Gonzaw? Its like he is trying to use Keirathi's, (someone he should still believe to be scum at this point, I think?) anxiety to allow him to back out of the Talis lynch. Gonzaw is scum and should be lynched tomorrow. | ||
|
Mattchew
United States5684 Posts
On July 18 2012 04:25 gonzaw wrote: Most of your case is confirmation bias like this: ..and basically a PBPA. Some of those things you mention I don't know why are even scummy at all. Also I posted about talis on N1, if you thought I "didn't add anything to the talis lynch". But okay, after I come back home I'll post a more cohesive defense. Confirmation bias? I think that your lack of reasoning for changing your mind about Austin is more likely to happen if you are scum? and it is far from a PBPA when you have 7 pages of posts and I only quoted maybe a page worth of them (not including 1 spoiler for its effect cause I summarized them all) | ||
|
Mattchew
United States5684 Posts
| ||
|
Mattchew
United States5684 Posts
| ||
|
Mattchew
United States5684 Posts
##vote Gonzaw | ||
|
Mattchew
United States5684 Posts
Please dont make me fill in the blanks here | ||
|
Mattchew
United States5684 Posts
| ||
|
Mattchew
United States5684 Posts
| ||
|
Mattchew
United States5684 Posts
On July 18 2012 19:15 Risen wrote: Sigh... I don't think gonzaw is scum and I wanted to live through the night so I was playing stupid but I guess my claim was going to force me to go all in sooner or later. I'm inclined to think you're town, as well. I really think scum team is keir/matt. Wanted to keep my suspicions of him masked until keir flipped. So what is this awesome scum read you have on me based on purely meta again? | ||
| ||
