EPTI'll post all I can about him a little bit later, now I have some shit to do (I woke up just some few moments ago >_> )
Bureaucracy Mafia! - Page 173
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gonzaw
Uruguay4911 Posts
I'll post all I can about him a little bit later, now I have some shit to do (I woke up just some few moments ago >_> ) | ||
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gonzaw
Uruguay4911 Posts
On July 26 2012 05:29 syllogism wrote: Well that's nice, can we get a claim? No. I never like to claim even when facing being lynched, since it doesn't serve any useful purpose and will either convince people that "oh he's scum fake-claiming VT" if I claim VT or create a shitstorm if I claim blue (like it did in Bang Bang mafia). | ||
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gonzaw
Uruguay4911 Posts
"Oh but he was wishy-washy about the flipped scum/defended the flipped scum! Therefore he's confirmed scum! Let's ignore everything else he did and lynch him!" Seriously it's frustrating as fuck that this kind of stuff keeps happening. | ||
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gonzaw
Uruguay4911 Posts
On July 26 2012 01:40 Katina wrote: We need to lynch gonzaw today. We already have some votes on him so let's keep it that way. There's a very good chance he's going to flip Mafia. Tomorrow we can worry about Meapak. Zealos and Chezinu would not make good lynches today. ##Vote gonzaw Nice contribution there Katina! So.....what about sloosh? You know, the other guy you wanted to lynch? | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
At least some of your suspicion of Katina rests on her play in Liar Game. Do you feel that it transfers 1:1, given that Liar Game had PMs and odd lynch mechanics? I just don't know how far comparisons between the two games get you. | ||
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rastaban
United States2294 Posts
Voted G, to put some pressure on him, he reacted like he did when he was town in the past. I have a null on him right now, plenty of better scum to lynch today. | ||
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syllogism
Finland5948 Posts
On July 18 2012 07:40 gonzaw wrote: No. If a scum that's not CEO received his order first then sandro's message 2nd, he'd instantly figure out something is wrong, and it would be likely he'd figure out the 2nd message was bogus and not sent by his supervisor. If the scum is the CEO then he knows it's bogus. I think "Use these phrases to identify your partners" thing is not allowed in those mafia communications since it outs their mafia members so the hosts would censor it, meaning even if everything happened according to sandro's plan scum may just not believe that message would get by that censor. It's not that powerful if scum are smart and can easily figure out the bogus message; at least in this case (not if sandro had made a more "subtle" message). I don't really think his outburst here is "pushing a mafia agenda" and makes him scum alone, I'll need to read his filter first. It seems Foo' or syllo won't get lynched though. Austin and Blazinghand are the only choices? I don't really like any of them to lynch today. If I understand this post correctly, you were saying that what mafia would likely not believe a message that would tell them to identify themselves by posting something specific. But if that's the case, why did you think kurumi was mafia? It seems to me that when you were writing this, you weren't thinking about kurumi at all, because otherwise saying this doesn't make sense. This may be a bit of a stretch, but it feels weird to say something like this when you were "certain" one "mafia" had already fallen for it. | ||
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gonzaw
Uruguay4911 Posts
On July 26 2012 06:06 austinmcc wrote: Gonzaw, calm down and consolidate. Lot of day left, and if it's actually Can't Believe all over again it ends in us lynching scum. At least some of your suspicion of Katina rests on her play in Liar Game. Do you feel that it transfers 1:1, given that Liar Game had PMs and odd lynch mechanics? I just don't know how far comparisons between the two games get you. My suspicion rests in her behavior. After rereading Liar Game I saw her behaviour there was different as well, i.e it's not what she would normally act as town. As far as I know Katina didn't PM much in there, but what I'm talking about is how she approaches pushing her suspicions. In here it's like Katina is detached from the game in a way. She makes the "lynch X" or "X is scum" posts....but it's not like she seems to care about that happening in the game at all, and doesn't care about figuring out their alignment either. Just see that post I quoted earlier, it seems like an obvious post to just justify her vote and then leave. Earlier posts of her followed the same suit, their purpose seemed only to satisfy the "post some suspicions, accuse some guys" achievement from scum, and that's it. I don't see her trying to figure out people's alignment like in Liar Game for instance, I just see her accuse the same people over and over trying to appear that she's doing something useful, but not being invested in the game itself or seeming to care about it. Hmm, austin, what exactly do you think of Katina then? On July 26 2012 06:10 syllogism wrote: If I understand this post correctly, you were saying that what mafia would likely not believe a message that would tell them to identify themselves by posting something specific. But if that's the case, why did you think kurumi was mafia? It seems to me that when you were writing this, you weren't thinking about kurumi at all, because otherwise saying this doesn't make sense. This may be a bit of a stretch, but it feels weird to say something like this when you were "certain" one "mafia" had already fallen for it. It's not that powerful if scum are smart and can easily figure out the bogus message; at least in this case (not if sandro had made a more "subtle" message). I took it that Kurumi was a dumb mafia who fell for that trick. The point I was making is that scum would not likely fall for the same trick again (of following the message and "crumbing" phrases in their posts), since they knew Kurumi fell for it, meaning sandro's role wasn't "insanely overpowered" like austin claimed it to be. Well, that was before the whole "I'll PM someone, out the message......actually I didn't PM someone...actually I did" trick sandro used with Zealos....which in hindsight seemed kind of powerful since it was a pretty good trick  | ||
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layabout
United Kingdom2600 Posts
I have really enjoyed my time here and it was nice to play with all of you and to talk with some of you. It was also nice to kill wbg on tribes. I can't think of a better way to spend hundreds of hours than TL mafia. All the best, Marc. ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/soUu5.png) + Show Spoiler [There is no way i wouldn't put a ] + + Show Spoiler [spoiler in this post] + It's not the best crying elephant but it's all i have. | ||
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gonzaw
Uruguay4911 Posts
...well, for one I'd ask myself why scum Zealos wouldn't out the whole message in the first place, since he knew sandro made a similar trick with Kurumi and even said in the thread that he'd PM someone a message he wanted to out. But well, maybe he was indeed a minion who was never messaged before. Anyways, the point is that if he's town, and was indeed dumb enough to keep the message for some reason, he'd have no reason to out the whole message, even the "incriminating" part. If he was town he'd post it all, but he didn't. It makes perfect sense as "outed" scum at that point. He leaves out the incriminating part of the message so people don't think it was an "obvious scum message", and hopes sandro doesn't read it. Sandro already knew the message he sent him, so if he saw a thing similar to it that Zealos posted he'd know it was the message he sent, but it was possible he didn't strictly read the whole message trying to find inconsistencies (since he knew that message was his, he already knew the content). I think Zealos was counting on that: sandro not reading the whole message Zealos posted and not outing the "incriminating" part. Because the alternative, that Zealos is town and deliberately cut out that part and never mentioned it again, is EXTREMELY hard to believe, specially with Zealos' behaviour this whole game (i.e he doesn't seem to care about it). | ||
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gonzaw
Uruguay4911 Posts
"he'd have no reason to not out the whole message, even the "incriminating" part." | ||
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supersoft
Germany3729 Posts
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rastaban
United States2294 Posts
On July 26 2012 06:41 supersoft wrote: uh we have a tie between MZ and gonzaw :D i'll wait one more hour ^_^ ##vote MZ | ||
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syllogism
Finland5948 Posts
On July 23 2012 09:54 gonzaw wrote: lol when I saw Foo' flip CEO it made my day :D I was very surprised about BH though, I really thought he was town. About sloosh/supersoft: I don't see any reason for sloosh to fake-claim he shot Foo' as scum if he wasn't the one that actually shot him. I don't really see a reason for supersoft to fake-claim that either, unless he wanted to push a misslynch on sloosh. We need to be sure about it, supersoft has been acting shady all game and this "contradiction" here doesn't sit well with me. Really, you think Sloosh' extremely unusual and unlikely role claim and the fact he shot a person who he had previously defended isn't suspicious, but you question supersoft's play more? Why would mafia supersoft ever counterclaim there? To force a mislynch? That's laughable. The counterclaimer in this situation is actually much less suspicious. You are mafia | ||
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gonzaw
Uruguay4911 Posts
Okay, first let's check his filter on MTG mafia (the one with the actual magic game, cards and shit, not the other mafia that was a normal mafia game): http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=345422&user=230739 Then his filter here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=349678&user=230739 There is quite a difference in behaviour. In MTG, he just spouted anything he had in his mind, made a lot of one-liners, and seemed pretty confident in what he posted. He was very temperamental (sp?) as well. If someone accused him with "bad" reasons (like S&B that game), he'd flip his shit and start tunneling, responding to everything, caring about what was happening. Granted, this is a huge game and was huge in the first few days, so maybe you could disregard the whole "being confident" stuff, but I still see his behaviour to be quite different in this game. In this game he's not aggressive, and he doesn't seem to care about what's going on, specially since this is basically the first post where he justified his reads....which came in N3. He spent all D1/N1 (when he was active) talking about irrelevant stuff, and the only relevant scumhunting I've seen is softly accusing BH. Until N3 he didn't do anything relevant. In MTG he might have been "scummy" by lurking a little bit, OMGUSing and stuff, but he tried to scumhunt, specially before N3. There's also the very incriminating fact about the sandro' message that makes 0% sense if he was town, and he never mentioned again or even tried to explain why he cut the message. Here: That's all he has to say. Apparently he's so dumb he accidentally cutted of part of the message when he posted it. Well I don't believe that, the fact that he didn't explain at all why he did that is more damning, as also the fact that he doesn't try to do anything even after people have given him a 2nd chance ever since D2 So that's why I think we should lynch Zealos today: "There's a very good chance he's going to flip Mafia. Tomorrow we can worry about Meapak" We still have 24 hours or more, this isn't coming down to a "gonzaw vs Meapak" lynch just because syllo/supersoft says so. | ||
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gonzaw
Uruguay4911 Posts
On July 26 2012 06:52 syllogism wrote: Gonzaw I think your approach to situations Zealos and Sloosh are inconsistent and suspicious. In the case of Zealos you ignore every town-aligned explanation for his play while you aren't even slightly suspicious about Sloosh' claim and even suggest that supersoft is more suspicious despite claiming a mirror role of a flipped mafia. Really, you think Sloosh' extremely unusual and unlikely role claim and the fact he shot a person who he had previously defended isn't suspicious, but you question supersoft's play more? Why would mafia supersoft ever counterclaim there? To force a mislynch? That's laughable. The counterclaimer in this situation is actually much less suspicious. You are mafia I thought supersoft was mafia by that point, and sloosh claim didn't make sense from a scum point of view. The double-claim was odd to me and I couldn't really figure out why, which is why I wanted a little more explanation about it and try to figure it out later. I kind of ignored it afterwards after supersoft started to get a more active participation in town, actually pushing scum like he did in Bang Bang, which made me think that perhaps both of them were town in the first place, and what supersoft said (that they both shot Foo' and their bullets didn't get back) was more likely. And no, in that specific case, if the counterlclaimer claims the claimer is scum but gives reasons that they both could be town it doesn't make him "less suspicious", which is what I thought at that time (i.e if supersoft was mafia, he'd just counterclaim, say that both of them could be town, but keep pushing sloosh's misslynch. After sloosh flips real vig, then he falls back to that statement about how both of them could still be town and avoid getting lynched himself). I also don't get what this has to do with Zealos. | ||
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Probulous
Australia3894 Posts
Just skimmed but I am happy to vote ## Gonzaw | ||
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gonzaw
Uruguay4911 Posts
On July 26 2012 07:05 Probulous wrote: Did this Change to 24hr hrs? Cause I thought we had another 24. I only got my power yesterday. Just skimmed but I am happy to vote ## Gonzaw Are you fucking kidding me? | ||
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syllogism
Finland5948 Posts
Gonzaw: it has to do with your approaches. In Zealos' case you dismiss every explanation that might explain his behavior even if he is town and in Sloosh' case you dismiss every explanation why the play makes sense from mafia perspective. The claim is so suspicious, that the inconsistency and flat out refusal to lynch sloosh combined with your eagerness to lynch zealos is why I am not willing to believe you are town. Unsurprisingly sloosh voted meapak rather than gonzaw | ||
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supersoft
Germany3729 Posts
On July 26 2012 06:58 gonzaw wrote: We still have 24 hours or more, this isn't coming down to a "gonzaw vs Meapak" lynch just because syllo/supersoft says so. :-O DEEEERRRRPPPP! You're wrong. now claim. Entertain me! ^_^ MZ, you, too. Please claim. You said you're in no danger of getting lynched, I think the situation has changed a little. The furious townmob wants to take revenge for wbg and sandro. I don't know if I can hold them back any longer! | ||
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