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United Kingdom36161 Posts
On July 26 2012 07:36 supersoft wrote:
hey i am going to bed now.
Votecount is 5:6 in favour of Gonzaw.
If you don't claim within the next 5 minutes. My vote is on you and I'll go crazy if anyone doesn't move his vote on you.
A nolynch is no option for me, just to make that clear.
deadline isn't for 25 hours...
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Tomorrow we lynch MZ. Today we lynch Gonzaw.
Alea iacta est! lol
##unvote
##vote Gonzaw
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On July 26 2012 07:45 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On July 26 2012 07:36 supersoft wrote:
hey i am going to bed now.
Votecount is 5:6 in favour of Gonzaw.
If you don't claim within the next 5 minutes. My vote is on you and I'll go crazy if anyone doesn't move his vote on you.
A nolynch is no option for me, just to make that clear. deadline isn't for 25 hours...
yes i know. But i want to have this 25 hours to make sure no nolynch happens.
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Given we have time I am going to ##unvote and have another close read of Gonzaw/MZ.
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On July 26 2012 06:35 gonzaw wrote:
I think someone asked why would scum Zealos not out the "incriminate" part from sandro's message.
...well, for one I'd ask myself why scum Zealos wouldn't out the whole message in the first place, since he knew sandro made a similar trick with Kurumi and even said in the thread that he'd PM someone a message he wanted to out.
But well, maybe he was indeed a minion who was never messaged before.
Anyways, the point is that if he's town, and was indeed dumb enough to keep the message for some reason, he'd have no reason to out the whole message, even the "incriminating" part.
If he was town he'd post it all, but he didn't.
It makes perfect sense as "outed" scum at that point. He leaves out the incriminating part of the message so people don't think it was an "obvious scum message", and hopes sandro doesn't read it.
Sandro already knew the message he sent him, so if he saw a thing similar to it that Zealos posted he'd know it was the message he sent, but it was possible he didn't strictly read the whole message trying to find inconsistencies (since he knew that message was his, he already knew the content).
I think Zealos was counting on that: sandro not reading the whole message Zealos posted and not outing the "incriminating" part.
Because the alternative, that Zealos is town and deliberately cut out that part and never mentioned it again, is EXTREMELY hard to believe, specially with Zealos' behaviour this whole game (i.e he doesn't seem to care about it).
At least you tried to address my concerns. Essentially you are saying that when he realised he was caught he thought that leaving out the first line and hoping Sandro would not read it, would allow people to question whether the PM sounded like a scum PM...
So he expected people to read the message but not Sandro, eventhough people were going to discuss the contents of the message? It's dumb, like completely stupid. But even if we accept your premise, why would he do that only as scum. Bare in mind he had been caught not posting the PM. Everyone was already baying for his blood, a smarter player would realise that being upfront with everything is a better move but clearly Zealos wasn't thinking straight. I could see a dumb town Zealos trying to make himself look good by leaving out that first line in exactly the same way a dumb scum Zealos would.
Until there is a reasonable explanation for why he would do that only as scum and get away with it I have no reason to use the PM thing to lynch him. Remember Kurmui flipped town getting caught in a very similar manner.
His absence is really annoying though. Here I am out on a limb for him and he doesn't bother to post anything.
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United Kingdom36161 Posts
i talked about zealos. read my filter on my pre-daypost reads.
zealos popped up to admonish me on my use of meta, which i corrected him on. that's typical of his play. absent except to pick on something i said and then disappears again.
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It's not just the PM thing, Probulous. Go to my filter and check the response I made to foolishness.
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On July 26 2012 07:11 syllogism wrote:
We still have over 24 hours yes.
Gonzaw: it has to do with your approaches. In Zealos' case you dismiss every explanation that might explain his behavior even if he is town and in Sloosh' case you dismiss every explanation why the play makes sense from mafia perspective. The claim is so suspicious, that the inconsistency and flat out refusal to lynch sloosh combined with your eagerness to lynch zealos is why I am not willing to believe you are town.
Unsurprisingly sloosh voted meapak rather than gonzaw
Why so surprised?
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On July 26 2012 07:46 supersoft wrote:
Tomorrow we lynch MZ. Today we lynch Gonzaw.
Alea iacta est! lol
##unvote
##vote Gonzaw
Is this a jab at me?
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I know, I specifically wanted this resolved because it is the main thing Gonzaw and Meapak are using to push Zealos. I also find the people constantly pushing a Zealos lynch more likely scum than those pushing for other lynches which gives me pause. Either he is town or an easy bus, we don't have to kill him today.
I think we have two mafia here. The similarity of this lynch to the no lynch is pretty striking. Aside from Gonzaw being involved in both we have the game evenly split. If Gonzaw flips scum then this theory gains strength. Gonzaw's straight up defense of Palmar for no reason is very similar to layabout. It was trying to destroy a strong case for no reason.
His insistence of lynching Zealos without seriously considering Meapak is pretty damning.
Here is his stance on MZ
On July 17 2012 06:22 gonzaw wrote:
Don't know what's up with Kurumi/BH since I didn't read, but MZ's initial posts I skimmed from the first pages and so seemed too passive indeed, although I don't know if he'd be that "obvious" as scum (I remember Liar Game where he started acting anti-town and scummy all of a sudden at one point, like in D2 or D3 so he could easily do the same here).
On July 18 2012 08:31 gonzaw wrote:
I don't see MZ being scum after skimming his filter.
His initial read is that MZ is town, or rather not scum (this is no not a town Gonzaw thing to do). He says that MZ is passive but gives himself and excuse in the same sentence. There is no need to justify your read that early with such contortions, guilty mindset regarding MZ. Yes it was early and he probably didn't know if MZ was his scum buddy but that explains his reticence in taking a stand. But then suddenly
On July 25 2012 07:29 gonzaw wrote:
Haven't read MZ by now, nor checked austin's recent posts, but by what I've seen it's likely they are both scum (I don't remember MZ posting at all since D2 :/ ).
Despite not reading his filter he is sure enough that MZ hadn't posted enoug, so he must be scum. A complete 180 based on non-evidence. Basically a hidden sheep position.
On July 25 2012 11:58 gonzaw wrote:
About MZ:
I don't see nothing inherently scummy with his D1 play actually. He seems aggressive and involved in discussions.
But damn he stopped playing after that. Like 2 and a half pages of his filter come from D1, but only 1 and a half come from N1 onwards, and he doesn't post anything really interesting there.
The only scumhunting I've seen from him is calling rastaban out, and accuse Zealos/Kurumi/BH/Foolishness with little reasons; after that he just seems to argue with people and reiterate things over and over and not contribute with nothing else.
Yeah I wouldn't mind him dying. I'm not very confident in him being scum though, but I was wrong before and I trust that all of VE/Prob/syllo/etc are not idiots and see him as scum so he may as well be.
Now he is back to scum but look, again he gives himself an out. He is saying that MZ is scum but goes to extreme lengths to distance himself from his position. He downplays his confidence and then uses the rest of us as justification for his position.
On July 25 2012 12:00 gonzaw wrote:Show nested quote +On July 25 2012 11:57 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:On July 25 2012 11:23 Mattchew wrote:
This is a fucking stupid dance. Lynch MZ cause you VE supersoft and syllo (and myself) all agree he is scum. This doesn't have to be some stare down between you and VE... no none of you have a case. Since we're all suggesting targets, I'd say you should lynch zealos. He's just about confirmed red because of sandroba, once he's out of the way we can actually spend the day arguing with each other over who to lynch. While yesterday was great because we killed scum, it kinda sucked in terms of discussion because it was so obvious. MZ, what do you think of Katina, austin and other people discussed by now? Yes, you've said "lynch Zealos" ever since N1, we already know you think he's scum.....so? What else? You can't think you complaining about people are considered contributions. Plus if you are really town and you know you'll likely get killed by Prob/lynch you should post all your reads and try to contribute as fast as you can to make sure people know what you think once you die and are "confirmed town".
This is one of only a few times that Gonzaw ever talks directly to MZ and look at how soft it is. He supposedly thinks MZ is scum but he asks questions in a completely passive manner. He is almost pleading here.
On July 26 2012 05:21 gonzaw wrote:
I don't agree with this "either gonzaw or MZ" dichotomy at all either.
I wouldn't mind MZ dying but he's not my top suspect.
Does someone think Zealos/Katina/austin is town? Do some of you really think MZ is more likely scum than one of them? If so then please explain
His final mention of MZ where he says he is happy to lynch MZ. If you take the entirety of Gozaw's push against MZ it comes down to sheeping others whilst heaping doubt on the case. He nevers defends MZ, he never corrects perceptions or tries to find an answer. He simply blissfully follows which is so contra town Gonzaw that he must be mafia.
Finally, I pushed him really hard Day 1 for his passivity and gentle play. He knows we are watching that so he has been aggressive in defending himself. He gets angry and shouts and swears and shows off his agressive side but it is never in finding scum. It is always defending himself. This actually reminds me of our first game together Gonz when you went apeshit at me for suggesting you were mafia. Turns out you were but I fell for your shenanigans and you won the game. Not this time my friend.
##Vote Gonzaw
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On July 26 2012 08:41 slOosh wrote:Show nested quote +On July 26 2012 07:11 syllogism wrote:
We still have over 24 hours yes.
Gonzaw: it has to do with your approaches. In Zealos' case you dismiss every explanation that might explain his behavior even if he is town and in Sloosh' case you dismiss every explanation why the play makes sense from mafia perspective. The claim is so suspicious, that the inconsistency and flat out refusal to lynch sloosh combined with your eagerness to lynch zealos is why I am not willing to believe you are town.
Unsurprisingly sloosh voted meapak rather than gonzaw Why so surprised?
Because you have never mentioned your stance on Gonzaw. You called him scum on Day 1 based on my case but since then he has disapeared from your reads but when time comes to lynch him suddenly Meapak is the scum not Gonzaw. Sure you might think MZ a better lynch but completely ignoring Gonzaw (as far as we can tell) is pretty damning.
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Probulous good news! I've figured out how we can both be town! ^^
Kalooh Kallay!
I'm keeping up guys and I'll post my thoughts plus lay down the vote for my preferred lynch sometime in the next 24. I'll say however that I'm pretty much fine with either of Gonzaw or MZ, so my preference is really just a formality as I'm willing to consolidate on either one of them.
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On July 26 2012 09:42 VisceraEyes wrote:
Probulous good news! I've figured out how we can both be town! ^^.
ROFL, you're such an ass 
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No srs...the mirror thing is bunk, sure some roles are mirrored, but that doesn't mean they all are! Obviously, because there's a "Traitorous Employee" on the scumteam which I can't imagine what the town equivalent would be. But anyway, my revelation was that scum get to take away two of our lynches. While town gets that too, how often do you see a townie using the Pardoner power? I think the two kingmakers thing could have been put in place to balance out the two pardons by scum..although honestly it makes more sense to give us one two-shot guy...although balance-wise it makes more sense this way with so many mirrored roles. Disuade role = alignment arguments, etc etc.
Sorry guy, I get excited when I think I've broken a game. Upon further reflection, if you were scum I think you could have gone after someone more likely to flip town than layabout and excused it the way you did.
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Though for the record, I still didn't like you "assuming" what answers I wanted or what actions I wanted you to take. I would have rather you flipped MZ or Zeal...but I'm not gonna split hairs anymore. A scum flip is a scum flip.
If we go 5 for 5 I'm throwing us a little party. I don't even care if scum are helping us kill each other off at this point - 4 in a row goes beyond "some scum ploy" and ventures into "we're doing something right".
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It would be interesting to know whether Palmar's role could have blocked the kingmakers kills given they were lynches. I doubt Ver/Incog would tell us but that would explain the situation.
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On July 26 2012 09:56 VisceraEyes wrote:
Though for the record, I still didn't like you "assuming" what answers I wanted or what actions I wanted you to take. I would have rather you flipped MZ or Zeal...but I'm not gonna split hairs anymore. A scum flip is a scum flip.
If we go 5 for 5 I'm throwing us a little party. I don't even care if scum are helping us kill each other off at this point - 4 in a row goes beyond "some scum ploy" and ventures into "we're doing something right".
Well I asked what you wanted and you threw it back in my face so I had to assume.
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On July 26 2012 09:59 Probulous wrote:Show nested quote +On July 26 2012 09:56 VisceraEyes wrote:
Though for the record, I still didn't like you "assuming" what answers I wanted or what actions I wanted you to take. I would have rather you flipped MZ or Zeal...but I'm not gonna split hairs anymore. A scum flip is a scum flip.
If we go 5 for 5 I'm throwing us a little party. I don't even care if scum are helping us kill each other off at this point - 4 in a row goes beyond "some scum ploy" and ventures into "we're doing something right". Well I asked what you wanted and you threw it back in my face so I had to assume.
Yeah well, I still thought you'd go after the almost universally accepted scum, especially considering you as much as SAID MZ would die the night previous.
Hey wait, you said MZ would die and you lied to me! Why?! I totally forgot that until JUST NOW - when you first found out you were getting the power, you said IN THE THREAD that MZ would die. Why did you lie to me? I thought we were buds!! :~(
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Because I changed my mind. It was rash to say he would die, you can see by the very next post I had changed how I was going to approach the lynch.
You know what I am going to give this a go anyway
Could the lawyer pardon a kingmaker lynch?
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I do want to lynch sloosh but I always want to lynch you just as much gonzaw. I'm not going to switch my vote off of you since you are so high on my Mafia list. It doesn't look like a sloosh lynch wiill happen today and you have votes on you at the moment as well which is great (since you are Mafia) I think that trying to go after me is a desperate attempt to get attention off of you and onto me for close to no reason. You also tried to push attention onto sloosh.
You didn't start going after me until I started talking about you and added your name to my Mafia list. Whic h only increases my suspicions of you. I don't really care what you have to say about me or in your defense because I'm already sold on you. So when you are lynched and somehow flip town then I will write you a nice note and wash your car or something but until then I'm not moving it. So say whatever you want.
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EPT
