EPTBureaucracy Mafia! - Page 176
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Katina
United States454 Posts
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VisceraEyes
United States21170 Posts
On July 26 2012 10:35 Katina wrote: That post was directed at gonzaw. I thought it was directed at me I was all  Katina after slOosh and gonzaw are dead, who are your best bets for scum? What do you think about MZ? | ||
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gonzaw
Uruguay4911 Posts
I also don't know when I "shouted and sweared", other than when I sweared at syllo for starting the wagon against me with shitty reasons. Anyways your case is like 100% confirmation bias so I won't respond too much to it. You are basically assuming me and MZ are scum and I know he's scum, and trying to nitpick stuff that shows that. Even if both of us were scum, unless me/him were supervisor/minion I wouldn't even know he was scum (and trust me, when I'm scum I have shitty reads of other scum as well, just check Liar Game) About MZ, I'm actually not very sure of him being scum. Yes, it's possible he's scum for reasons I've stated, and some people (that are likely town) that are so sure about him may indicate they saw something I didn't, but I'm not actually sure after reading his filter even more. He seems too confident even when all players accuse him, and his behaviour seems similar to Liar Game which is why I'm wary (i.e he has that aggressive/confident tone in his posts in this game as well) I also agree that Zealos was an "easy bus" for many players (palmar, layabout, etc), but that's because it was pretty apparent he was scum and his scumbuddies would have no choice but to bus him. If nobody even pays attention to him or votes him it makes it even easier for them to bus him, since apparently he was never in danger of getting lynched. I haven't heard a single reason for why Zealos is town, I've only heard people (like Prob) saying that he might have been dumb townie and did the whole sandro incident by accident, but nothing else. On July 26 2012 10:33 Katina wrote: I do want to lynch sloosh but I always want to lynch you just as much gonzaw. I'm not going to switch my vote off of you since you are so high on my Mafia list. It doesn't look like a sloosh lynch wiill happen today and you have votes on you at the moment as well which is great (since you are Mafia) I think that trying to go after me is a desperate attempt to get attention off of you and onto me for close to no reason. You also tried to push attention onto sloosh. You didn't start going after me until I started talking about you and added your name to my Mafia list. Whic h only increases my suspicions of you. I don't really care what you have to say about me or in your defense because I'm already sold on you. So when you are lynched and somehow flip town then I will write you a nice note and wash your car or something but until then I'm not moving it. So say whatever you want. No, don't lie: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=349678¤tpage=122#2434 The fact that you accused me for things that were already explained made me more suspicious of you and then I reread your filter and figured out you were scum Anyways I'll see if I have the time to check other players right now. | ||
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Probulous
Australia3894 Posts
On July 26 2012 10:49 gonzaw wrote: You are basically assuming me and MZ are scum and I know he's scum, and trying to nitpick stuff that shows that. Even if both of us were scum, unless me/him were supervisor/minion I wouldn't even know he was scum (and trust me, when I'm scum I have shitty reads of other scum as well, just check Liar Game) Explain to me where exactly I said I assume both of you are scum. My point is not that you know MZ is scum it is that you haven't bothered to take a position on the person on the opposing wagon. You are actively avoiding mentioning him and instead are determined to lynch Zealos. It is clear that Zealos is going nowhere today, there are virtually no votes on him, so why do you not bother to try and work out MZ? I mean if you think he is town, then we are all wrong but you can't be bothered to even try and convince us. If you think he is scum you have done everything in your power to step back from that position. You want us to ignore your opinion on MZ, given he is the only likely candidate for lynch today that is not you, why would you do this? About MZ, I'm actually not very sure of him being scum. Yes, it's possible he's scum for reasons I've stated, and some people (that are likely town) that are so sure about him may indicate they saw something I didn't, but I'm not actually sure after reading his filter even more. He seems too confident even when all players accuse him, and his behaviour seems similar to Liar Game which is why I'm wary (i.e he has that aggressive/confident tone in his posts in this game as well). Now that you are forced to take a position you say he is too confident thereby suggesting a scum MZ would not be confident? Like how is this a defense? You did exactly the same thing with Palmar. You tried to stop our lynch with bad reasoning and the only other target you bang on about is Zealos. I also agree that Zealos was an "easy bus" for many players (palmar, layabout, etc), but that's because it was pretty apparent he was scum and his scumbuddies would have no choice but to bus him. If nobody even pays attention to him or votes him it makes it even easier for them to bus him, since apparently he was never in danger of getting lynched. I haven't heard a single reason for why Zealos is town, I've only heard people (like Prob) saying that he might have been dumb townie and did the whole sandro incident by accident, but nothing else. See here again, why do I have to prove Zealos is town. For all I know he may be mafia, but the reasons you are providing don't prove squat. Marvell and Hiro have pointed out some other stuff, which I already have banked for later, but you are content to push based solely on Sandroba's gambit which we know can catch dumb town. Saying that it is "pretty apparent" that he is scum is not case, especially when I am pointing out townie explanations for the only evidence you have presented. See I think you are too lazy to actually build a case that is not based on the PM. I think you are content to do enough to look like you are hunting for mafia. | ||
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Katina
United States454 Posts
On July 26 2012 10:40 VisceraEyes wrote: I thought it was directed at me I was all Katina after slOosh and gonzaw are dead, who are your best bets for scum? What do you think about MZ? Once those two are adead I think the next best candidate would be Meapak. | ||
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gonzaw
Uruguay4911 Posts
On July 26 2012 11:13 Probulous wrote: Explain to me where exactly I said I assume both of you are scum. My point is not that you know MZ is scum it is that you haven't bothered to take a position on the person on the opposing wagon. You are actively avoiding mentioning him and instead are determined to lynch Zealos. It is clear that Zealos is going nowhere today, there are virtually no votes on him, so why do you not bother to try and work out MZ? I mean if you think he is town, then we are all wrong but you can't be bothered to even try and convince us. If you think he is scum you have done everything in your power to step back from that position. You want us to ignore your opinion on MZ, given he is the only likely candidate for lynch today that is not you, why would you do this? It is not clear that Zealos is going nowhere. You can't use people sheeping other's into voting MZ or me as a basis for me "pushing a guy that won't get lynched". I guess if nobody does shit by now and park their votes like they did by now until the day ends he won't likely get lynched, but the alternative is to sheep the vote on MZ without thinking at all and just sit idle for the remainder of the day. I won't do that. why do you not bother to try and work out MZ? What tells you I didn't? I've read the cases against him, and I've already posted what I thought about him Yes, he's not really scumhunting other than going against rastaban since D2. I don't really buy the "he's passive" case though, since he didn't seem passive to me. Other than that I noticed his behavior and it seemed similar like in Liar Game, which like I said makes me uneasy about him being scum (even though he didn't bring anything to discussions, was inactive for quite a while, etc), and I'd even say he could be town because of it. I'm not 100% convinced he's town because it's possible he's deliberately playing like this as scum to "stick to his town meta" or something. Either way, I don't seriously think he's town to spend 100% of my time defending him, so instead I'm pushing for other people that are MUCH more likely to be scum than him and getting them lynched instead. Like Katina said, we can deal with MZ later. Now that you are forced to take a position you say he is too confident thereby suggesting a scum MZ would not be confident? Like how is this a defense? You did exactly the same thing with Palmar. You tried to stop our lynch with bad reasoning and the only other target you bang on about is Zealos. I'd bet that a scum MZ wouldn't be that confident, but I don't actually know. It's one thing that doesn't make me confident in him being scum, and it's possible he's town. Here's his filter from Liar Game which is what I was using as reference: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=333034&user=82024 Also it's not just his "confidence", but his attitude as well, like how he responds to people, the way he makes those short posts, etc. It's strikingly similar to Liar Game. As you remember, everybody wanted him dead in that game too (at least until D4). I "bang" on Zealos because he's the one most likely to be scum, and the "easiest" scum to get lynched (the one that would get the least opposition, at least I'd suppose) Considering how little resistance the Kurumi lynch got on D2 it seriously baffles me how much resistance a Zealos lynch is getting all these days. In fact he should have been lynched on D2 instead of Kurumi at least. See here again, why do I have to prove Zealos is town. For all I know he may be mafia, but the reasons you are providing don't prove squat. Marvell and Hiro have pointed out some other stuff, which I already have banked for later, but you are content to push based solely on Sandroba's gambit which we know can catch dumb town. Saying that it is "pretty apparent" that he is scum is not case, especially when I am pointing out townie explanations for the only evidence you have presented. See I think you are too lazy to actually build a case that is not based on the PM. Wat Read the thread Prob: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=349678¤tpage=173#3455 Sandro's gambit (although sufficient in my mind) is not the sole thing that makes him scum. If Zealos played pro-town and was "obvious town" there'd be no reason to use sandro's gambit against him since it would mean it was likely he derped there as town. But he didn't. It's the fact that he was "outed" but never tried to prove his innocence later and just skirted by all these days making 1 case in 4 days. Also, lol at that reasoning, here let me try: "See here again, why do I have to prove MZ is town. For all I know he may be mafia, but the reasons you are providing don't prove squat. syllo and others have pointed out some other stuff, which I already have banked for later" Seriously Prob, you are using confirmation bias. You just seem to follow syllo's and supersoft's mentality that everything you do is 100% correct and if somebody else does something different it's wrong and it's their fault and the only approach that works in this game is yours. Now go and tell me why Zealos is town, or at least tell me if you think he's mafia or not. My vote on him obviously will be "wasted" if nobody does shit and just assume that going against Zealos is futile right off the start. It's not. Hell, that's what happened on D1. It wasn't even like 24 hours into D1 and voting for 1 guy that wasn't BH or austin was already a "wasted vote", even though we could have lynched the CEO by then had people not be so stubborn. | ||
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slOosh
3291 Posts
On July 26 2012 09:11 Probulous wrote: Because you have never mentioned your stance on Gonzaw. You called him scum on Day 1 based on my case but since then he has disapeared from your reads but when time comes to lynch him suddenly Meapak is the scum not Gonzaw. Sure you might think MZ a better lynch but completely ignoring Gonzaw (as far as we can tell) is pretty damning. That's not what syllogism is getting at - he is insinuating that I have some hesitation with voting gonzaw i.e. he is scum and I am scum and I don't want to lynch him, which doesn't make sense since he thinks Meapak is scum too. My read of MZ wasn't sudden, and since we were just casting preliminary votes I didn't think I needed to rehash the cases against either. Yea, it seems I'm still without the ability of transparency but it's hard to have any motivation when I'm consistently called scum and everyone seems to be gliding over my posts. On July 24 2012 18:18 slOosh wrote: With Meapak I think his filter alone is enough to deem him scum, and potentially exec with his vet status: He is doing the same thing Palmar is doing. Going after big name players but backing off when it seems like they could be scum. He says that Palmar isn't special enough to give privileges to, yet his actions and words speak otherwise. Focuses on and picks on safer choice rastaban, who isn't as big of a loss if on same team as Palmar. | ||
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slOosh
3291 Posts
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Katina
United States454 Posts
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slOosh
3291 Posts
On July 06 2012 09:28 Protactinium wrote: There are redundancy factors in place for communication once someone dies but they will be less than normal. In normal games the town wants to prioritize certain mafia to eliminate powers (especially in PYP games) or reduce kp. As eliminating mafia will not reduce kp here, the focus should be geared at disrupting communication by removing the executives. | ||
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supersoft
Germany3729 Posts
after that game I am going to write up a guide "how to avoid a lynch" chapters will be: I. Your Claim II. Explaining your motivations III. Push another plan IV. Common Mistakes 1. Walls of text 2. Disappearing 3. Acting mysterious doesnt help if your scum or terrible, because the explaining point is the most important one. but you could at least try :D | ||
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Bill Murray
United States9292 Posts
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Bill Murray
United States9292 Posts
how did layabout die Who should I take vote-wise Everyone answer I don't want to out my reads | ||
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Bill Murray
United States9292 Posts
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supersoft
Germany3729 Posts
ve crowned prob and he killed laya | ||
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Meapak_Ziphh
United States6786 Posts
Tomorrow I'll write something on him and the updated case on rastaban that I had previously mentioned. I also have a gut feeling about QbertZ which I'll try and flesh out as well. | ||
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Meapak_Ziphh
United States6786 Posts
We still have plenty of time and it's easier to reach a majority now than it was D1. With that in mind it'd be great if people would at least listen to a my sloosh case tomorrow. There are enough active people that I'm fairly certain we'll prevent a no lynch which seems to be a major concern for you supersoft. | ||
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Bill Murray
United States9292 Posts
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Bill Murray
United States9292 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + he will come | ||
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syllogism
Finland5948 Posts
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