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Bureaucracy Mafia! - Page 169

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risk.nuke
Profile Joined May 2010
Sweden2825 Posts
July 25 2012 09:56 GMT
#3361
I haven't really looked into him but he's orange in my ss.
Neo.G Soulkey, Best, firebathero. // http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/index.php?show_part=31
supersoft
Profile Joined April 2010
Germany3729 Posts
July 25 2012 10:05 GMT
#3362
On July 25 2012 18:52 risk.nuke wrote:
Supersoft what kind of argument is that? Kill MZ because if every sensible person dies he's going to manipulate the town if he's scum. What's with the damn unwillingness to lynch actuall scum. We got people I've felt like nearly everyone agrees are scummy, like zealous or rastaban but somehow they don't die.

I'm going to vote Zealous now and everyone who's interested in killing scum should join in.
##Vote Zealous


that's not the reason why i want to lynch him.
that's the reason why i want to lynch him first.

Why I want to lynch him can be found here:
+ Show Spoiler +
On July 25 2012 16:59 supersoft wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 25 2012 16:47 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
On July 25 2012 16:45 supersoft wrote:
we have a case. If you read the thread, you will find it.

lol.

You're a good player supersoft but your weakness is that you sometimes get hopelessly arrogant. You don't have a case, I'm not getting lynched.

Moving on how about we hear from you on who you'd realistically like to lynch today.


btw. You're a good player, too. But i couldn't see that this game. That's one main allegation.
You're not town, simply because you didn't reach your own standart.


On July 25 2012 17:14 supersoft wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 25 2012 02:51 syllogism wrote:
On July 25 2012 02:21 HiroPro wrote:
On July 25 2012 02:18 supersoft wrote:
We are not lynching Zealos tomorrow. We lynch Meapak


Explain the case to me then please.

He has been very passive and his behavior near day 1 lynch deadline was quite suspicious. First he wanted to switch from BH to Gonzaw because mattchew's vote was "stuck" on gonzaw. He also stated that he was fine with lynching either BH or Gonzaw and cites Sandroba's support being one of his reasons for support gonzaw lynch. However, after the no-lynch he started the blame game in a very noncommittal manner, vaguely alluding to people responsible for the gonzaw wagon when BH and austin wagons were "well established". Now, who is responsible for Gonzaw wagon? Sandroba and Probulous, the former who is considered nearly confirmed town by this point! He also says people who "threw their vote away" are also under scrutiny, but they certainly didn't come under any scrutiny from Mr. Meapak.

It's also worth nothing that Meapak hadn't voted at all until he showed up 45 minutes before the lynch when BH wagon was the dominant one. He had to vote, so he pretty much had no choice but to vote BH at the time.

It doesn't get much more passive than this:

On July 20 2012 04:06 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
On July 20 2012 04:01 HiroPro wrote:
MZ, you think Zealos is scum?

I do actually. He came in, was under some pressure, and then promptly checked out once he was safe. To me that's always extremely scummy. If you were a serious lynch target you had better work your ass off to give town reason to keep you around next time. Zealos hasn't done that.


On July 20 2012 04:07 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
On July 20 2012 04:02 Blazinghand wrote:
I think Zealos is scum! The literal non-thread-reading and utter garbage that tries to look town but isn't makes him like my #1 scumread.

Well that's nice to know, I'd appreciate if you wrote out a case. You're lucky to not be dying today so I think you should make some serious contributions to give people reasons to rethink their position on you.


At the time Meapak is still sure that BH is mafia (though for some reason he writes a case on Rastaban instaed), but right after saying he thinks Zealos is mafia he weakly asks BH to write a case on Zealos.

Now he, just like Palmar was, is barely posting and doesn't seem to care at all.


Show nested quote +
On July 25 2012 06:32 marvellosity wrote:
Oki doki, here are my thoughts (so you can hold me accountable, VE )

Meapak_Ziph: Yeah, there's a high likelihood he's scum. syllogism pre-empted what I was going to say about him a couple of pages ago:

+ Show Spoiler +
On July 25 2012 02:51 syllogism wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 25 2012 02:21 HiroPro wrote:
On July 25 2012 02:18 supersoft wrote:
We are not lynching Zealos tomorrow. We lynch Meapak


Explain the case to me then please.

He has been very passive and his behavior near day 1 lynch deadline was quite suspicious. First he wanted to switch from BH to Gonzaw because mattchew's vote was "stuck" on gonzaw. He also stated that he was fine with lynching either BH or Gonzaw and cites Sandroba's support being one of his reasons for support gonzaw lynch. However, after the no-lynch he started the blame game in a very noncommittal manner, vaguely alluding to people responsible for the gonzaw wagon when BH and austin wagons were "well established". Now, who is responsible for Gonzaw wagon? Sandroba and Probulous, the former who is considered nearly confirmed town by this point! He also says people who "threw their vote away" are also under scrutiny, but they certainly didn't come under any scrutiny from Mr. Meapak.

It's also worth nothing that Meapak hadn't voted at all until he showed up 45 minutes before the lynch when BH wagon was the dominant one. He had to vote, so he pretty much had no choice but to vote BH at the time.

It doesn't get much more passive than this:

Show nested quote +
On July 20 2012 04:06 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
On July 20 2012 04:01 HiroPro wrote:
MZ, you think Zealos is scum?

I do actually. He came in, was under some pressure, and then promptly checked out once he was safe. To me that's always extremely scummy. If you were a serious lynch target you had better work your ass off to give town reason to keep you around next time. Zealos hasn't done that.


Show nested quote +
On July 20 2012 04:07 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
On July 20 2012 04:02 Blazinghand wrote:
I think Zealos is scum! The literal non-thread-reading and utter garbage that tries to look town but isn't makes him like my #1 scumread.

Well that's nice to know, I'd appreciate if you wrote out a case. You're lucky to not be dying today so I think you should make some serious contributions to give people reasons to rethink their position on you.


At the time Meapak is still sure that BH is mafia (though for some reason he writes a case on Rastaban instaed), but right after saying he thinks Zealos is mafia he weakly asks BH to write a case on Zealos.

Now he, just like Palmar was, is barely posting and doesn't seem to care at all.


Passivity is the name of the game. I have two recent memories of Meapak playing town, that is Liar mafia and LV. In Liar Mafia Meapak was a central figure, being a part of the meapak/gonzaw/ET town circle. More pertinently, in LV he believed he had found scum in VisceraEyes, and what did he do? He made a big case and then relentlessly pushed VE until he got his lynch. We have none of this here. Here he has 'found scum' in rastaban and makes a case. Except he never pushes anyone to lynch rastaban, even though he pops up on occasion to go "yeah rastaban is still scum" and the like. Meapak is uninvested and scum.


Show nested quote +
On July 22 2012 09:25 Katina wrote:
Meapak: Picks on easy targets for the most part. The only one he hard pushs is rastaban who hasn't been too active this game. He makes for an easy target. Meapak continues to push rastaban when it's clear that no one is going to go for it. His Mafia list is pretty meh, As I said the only hard read he has been pushing is rastaban to try and make it look like he's scum hunting so he doesn't draw too much suspicion.


if you somehow didn't catch it, meapak :-D


On July 25 2012 17:21 supersoft wrote:
Second allegation:

Gamebalance and math:
alive:

11. Supersoft town
15. syllogism town
7. VisceraEyes killed scum very unlikely scum when Prob is scum
10. Meapak_Ziphh
8. Bill Murray townread (can't be executive)
18. Chezinu town
4. Probulous killed scum very unlikely scum when VE is scum

dead
25. RebirthofLegend town
19. Kurumi town
13. Wherebugsgo town
3. Sandroba town
16. GGQ town
26. Palmar scum
6. Foolishness scum


Third allegation:

you have no abilitys. We have 2 executives missing. Foolishness CEO flip indicates, that good players are in key positions.


Fourth allegation:

Foolishness refused to mention you, even though you were discussed day1.
Syllo attacked you day1 and got attacked by foolish and palmar.

syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
July 25 2012 10:37 GMT
#3363
Supersoft what is the exact name of your role? Just need it for something
supersoft
Profile Joined April 2010
Germany3729 Posts
July 25 2012 10:44 GMT
#3364
Suicidal Salaryman: (Dreamflower)
supersoft
Profile Joined April 2010
Germany3729 Posts
July 25 2012 10:45 GMT
#3365
we have not the same names as our scum counterparts...
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
July 25 2012 10:48 GMT
#3366
i'm not voting gonzaw today and i'm certainly not voting to kill anyone because of a mirror theory
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
July 25 2012 10:54 GMT
#3367
On July 25 2012 19:48 marvellosity wrote:
i'm not voting gonzaw today and i'm certainly not voting to kill anyone because of a mirror theory

I'm 3/3 so far with people who I have called confirmed mafia and I'm calling gonzaw confirmed. Do I actually have to keep providing reasons or why not just take my word for it instead? I was hit last night and I had said I intended to push for layabout lynch today. Chairman decides who gets lynched and layabout was his minion. Please don't make the game harder than it needs to be.

Regarding mirror roles:

Visceraeyes, as you can see, so far mafia mirror roles have had different names from their presumably town counterparts. They were as far as we know provided only VT role claims.

WBG was Judge
Palmar Lawyer

BH Hired Hitman
Supersoft Suicidal Salaryman

Kurumi America, RoL Macedonia
Layabout Canada posing as America or something

Probulous claimed the exact same role and role name as you VE and before you did. It's obviously not conclusive, but it certainly makes sense for him to be town just based on that. Help me lynch Gonzaw today.
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
July 25 2012 10:57 GMT
#3368
EBWOP: chairman decides who gets hit after ceo is dead
supersoft
Profile Joined April 2010
Germany3729 Posts
July 25 2012 10:57 GMT
#3369
chez also claims to have the same name as sandroba in this PM viscera posted...
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
July 25 2012 11:05 GMT
#3370
Foolishness probably didn't move his vote day1 because he thought/knew that both Gonzaw and BH are mafia
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
July 25 2012 11:09 GMT
#3371
On July 25 2012 19:54 syllogism wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 25 2012 19:48 marvellosity wrote:
i'm not voting gonzaw today and i'm certainly not voting to kill anyone because of a mirror theory

I'm 3/3 so far with people who I have called confirmed mafia and I'm calling gonzaw confirmed. Do I actually have to keep providing reasons or why not just take my word for it instead?


See this is what I was talking about earlier?

You know why Palmar survived so long in Liar game? Because YOU had an incorrect townread on him. That was the only reason. So yes, it would be just dandy if you provide good and persuasive reasons.
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
supersoft
Profile Joined April 2010
Germany3729 Posts
July 25 2012 11:18 GMT
#3372
VE and mattchew move your votes to meapak or gonzaw.
todays lynch is between these two.

the gonzawcase is also rocksolid.
@marvel, I really am wondering what further reasoning you're expecting from syllo. Read through his filter...
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
July 25 2012 11:18 GMT
#3373
That's nice, but that was a 3 mafia team setup with PMs and there was a good, if dumb meta reason for my wrong read.

I don't see how you can look at his filter, his activity and who he has defended and think he is town. Look at his case post today and the guilty "wow i forgot layabout is in this game lol" (after he had just defended/talked to him on day 3!) post after layabout was king lynched. Look at his promises to be more active once the other games he was in ended. Look at his behavior yesterday when we were trying to brute force palmar lynch. When it was a foregone conclusion that palmar would be lynched, he said this

On July 24 2012 06:30 gonzaw wrote:
Well shit, Palmar's claim doesn't make much sense actually.
If he was Copycat he'd get Rol's role like other people said; if he could choose which role to get it'd be very powerful, and he would have likely chosen Kurumi's role instead (once Kurumi died), since he knew Kurumi had a nuke since D1.

His posting on D2 doesn't see like a scum Palmar to me, would a scum Palmar put effort like that?

Him just giving up right now is not making things any easier.
I'll likely change my vote to him to consolidate, but I won't just sheep a vote on someone I'm not sure is scum so I want some more explanations first.


And then

On July 24 2012 08:04 gonzaw wrote:
I expected someone to answer me by now :/
@Prob: Will you answer what I posted before?

*sigh*

You guys better be right, I don't have a good feeling about this

##Unvote: Zealos
##Vote: Palmar


I'm going to the gym now and I think I'll be back right before the deadline.


His vote wasn't needed, but this reads like a post of someone who feels he has to switch to avoid suspicion and tries, feebly, look town in the process.

Probulous/VE/Supersoft help me brute force this
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
July 25 2012 11:23 GMT
#3374
I think the main problem is that I'd have to accept that I got it wrong.

I suppose I'll go over gonzaw's filter again with timings in mind.

I'd really much rather lynch mz/austin/zealos/(rastaban)
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
July 25 2012 11:30 GMT
#3375
I've been wrong numerous times in this game and still am about some things I'm sure, but I'm fairly confident about this. Nothing wrong with re-evaluating based on new evidence or evidence you hadn't considered before. I admit that I'm never really 100% sure despite sometimes appearing extremely confident in the thread.
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
July 25 2012 11:48 GMT
#3376
On July 25 2012 20:30 syllogism wrote:
I've been wrong numerous times in this game and still am about some things I'm sure, but I'm fairly confident about this. Nothing wrong with re-evaluating based on new evidence or evidence you hadn't considered before. I admit that I'm never really 100% sure despite sometimes appearing extremely confident in the thread.


It's refreshing to hear that. What do you think of my candidates given? why does it have to be gonzaw?
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
July 25 2012 11:54 GMT
#3377
Your list is a list of people I'm least sure of. It has to be gonzaw because I'm confident about him and because town needs direction. I think the fact I've been, in the end, correct about all the flipped mafia so far should give me some credibility here as should the fact I got shot last night.
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
July 25 2012 11:56 GMT
#3378
Town needs discussion and consensus, not just sheeping, no matter your credibility. I don't think the shutting down of the day's lynch discussion into 1 candidate is productive.
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
July 25 2012 12:06 GMT
#3379
Is it not? We caught mafia yesterday by doing just that (layabout, gonzaw). There is nothing inherently good about consensus lynches as that relies on the majority of town being correct and even then mafia can influence who gets lynched. If we take some sort of average town opinion, it will quite often turn out to be wrong.

When things are less clear and more information is needed, discussion is good. Otherwise sheeping is fine and nothing is stopping is from discussing other candidates even though we lynch gonzaw today.
supersoft
Profile Joined April 2010
Germany3729 Posts
July 25 2012 12:14 GMT
#3380
you can decide between mz and gonzaw.
i propose that everyone decides between these two persons in the next 10 hours.
after that the votes from the one who got a lesser amount of votes have to be moved to the other guy.
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