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Bureaucracy Mafia! - Page 168

Forum Index > TL Mafia
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Meapak_Ziphh
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States6786 Posts
July 25 2012 08:16 GMT
#3341
@VE: if it's such an obvious case then I invite you to make it. The fact that no one can be arsed to is because people are lazy, not to get bitchy but you're an excellent example seeing as you can't even write something up fully fleshing out your theory. People want to lynch me because they're sheeping a million year old Palmar read.

Now I really am going to bed.
Forti et Fideli ~ TL Mafia Forum: Come play with us! ~ Go Samsung KHAN, Stork, JangBi , Shine, Grape, and TurN Fighting!~ wat
supersoft
Profile Joined April 2010
Germany3729 Posts
July 25 2012 08:21 GMT
#3342
Second allegation:

Gamebalance and math:
alive:

11. Supersoft town
15. syllogism town
7. VisceraEyes killed scum very unlikely scum when Prob is scum
10. Meapak_Ziphh
8. Bill Murray townread (can't be executive)
18. Chezinu town
4. Probulous killed scum very unlikely scum when VE is scum

dead
25. RebirthofLegend town
19. Kurumi town
13. Wherebugsgo town
3. Sandroba town
16. GGQ town
26. Palmar scum
6. Foolishness scum


Third allegation:

you have no abilitys. We have 2 executives missing. Foolishness CEO flip indicates, that good players are in key positions.


Fourth allegation:

Foolishness refused to mention you, even though you were discussed day1.
Syllo attacked you day1 and got attacked by foolish and palmar.
Probulous
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
Australia3894 Posts
July 25 2012 08:34 GMT
#3343
How good of a player is mandalor? I forgot that Zealos replaced him. Would he be considered a Vet?

From phone
"Dude has some really interesting midgame switches that I wouldn't have expected. "I violated your house" into "HIHO THE DAIRY OH!" really threw me. You don't usually expect children's poetry harass as a follow up " - AmericanUmlaut
Meapak_Ziphh
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States6786 Posts
July 25 2012 08:36 GMT
#3344
lol these are all horrible so I'll stay up real quick and go through this.

On July 25 2012 17:14 supersoft wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 25 2012 02:51 syllogism wrote:
On July 25 2012 02:21 HiroPro wrote:
On July 25 2012 02:18 supersoft wrote:
We are not lynching Zealos tomorrow. We lynch Meapak


Explain the case to me then please.

He has been very passive and his behavior near day 1 lynch deadline was quite suspicious. First he wanted to switch from BH to Gonzaw because mattchew's vote was "stuck" on gonzaw. He also stated that he was fine with lynching either BH or Gonzaw and cites Sandroba's support being one of his reasons for support gonzaw lynch. However, after the no-lynch he started the blame game in a very noncommittal manner, vaguely alluding to people responsible for the gonzaw wagon when BH and austin wagons were "well established". Now, who is responsible for Gonzaw wagon? Sandroba and Probulous, the former who is considered nearly confirmed town by this point! He also says people who "threw their vote away" are also under scrutiny, but they certainly didn't come under any scrutiny from Mr. Meapak.

It's also worth nothing that Meapak hadn't voted at all until he showed up 45 minutes before the lynch when BH wagon was the dominant one. He had to vote, so he pretty much had no choice but to vote BH at the time.

It doesn't get much more passive than this:

On July 20 2012 04:06 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
On July 20 2012 04:01 HiroPro wrote:
MZ, you think Zealos is scum?

I do actually. He came in, was under some pressure, and then promptly checked out once he was safe. To me that's always extremely scummy. If you were a serious lynch target you had better work your ass off to give town reason to keep you around next time. Zealos hasn't done that.


On July 20 2012 04:07 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
On July 20 2012 04:02 Blazinghand wrote:
I think Zealos is scum! The literal non-thread-reading and utter garbage that tries to look town but isn't makes him like my #1 scumread.

Well that's nice to know, I'd appreciate if you wrote out a case. You're lucky to not be dying today so I think you should make some serious contributions to give people reasons to rethink their position on you.


At the time Meapak is still sure that BH is mafia (though for some reason he writes a case on Rastaban instaed), but right after saying he thinks Zealos is mafia he weakly asks BH to write a case on Zealos.

Now he, just like Palmar was, is barely posting and doesn't seem to care at all.


No matter how many times syllo or anybody repeats the word "passive" does not make it a fact. D1, I wanted a lynch. No lynch means scum is in complete control. Sandroba (confirmed town) made a decent case on gonzaw (who has subsequently picked his game up) in interest of at least having a lynch I was willing to follow sandroba's judgement. In terms of the "blame game" (cute turn of phrase btw syllo) sandroba and probulous were on BH at the end, I have no problems with them there. The point about me not going after the people who threw their votes away is also ridiculous. D2 we needed to lynch kurumi, there was no point in bringing that up. Then the biggest offender, foolishness, died. So no problems there. Finally, I had voted BH in the thread hours before but simply forgot to vote in the voting thread. I've done this twice now this game.

As for the quotes, gj cherry picking syllo! I'm not even sure what they're trying to prove as they don't show anything. And I resent the comment about me not caring at all, as was established by protact, I went away for a few days. Naturally I'm going to have a low post count because of that period.


Show nested quote +
On July 25 2012 06:32 marvellosity wrote:
Oki doki, here are my thoughts (so you can hold me accountable, VE )

Meapak_Ziph: Yeah, there's a high likelihood he's scum. syllogism pre-empted what I was going to say about him a couple of pages ago:

+ Show Spoiler +
On July 25 2012 02:51 syllogism wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 25 2012 02:21 HiroPro wrote:
On July 25 2012 02:18 supersoft wrote:
We are not lynching Zealos tomorrow. We lynch Meapak


Explain the case to me then please.

He has been very passive and his behavior near day 1 lynch deadline was quite suspicious. First he wanted to switch from BH to Gonzaw because mattchew's vote was "stuck" on gonzaw. He also stated that he was fine with lynching either BH or Gonzaw and cites Sandroba's support being one of his reasons for support gonzaw lynch. However, after the no-lynch he started the blame game in a very noncommittal manner, vaguely alluding to people responsible for the gonzaw wagon when BH and austin wagons were "well established". Now, who is responsible for Gonzaw wagon? Sandroba and Probulous, the former who is considered nearly confirmed town by this point! He also says people who "threw their vote away" are also under scrutiny, but they certainly didn't come under any scrutiny from Mr. Meapak.

It's also worth nothing that Meapak hadn't voted at all until he showed up 45 minutes before the lynch when BH wagon was the dominant one. He had to vote, so he pretty much had no choice but to vote BH at the time.

It doesn't get much more passive than this:

Show nested quote +
On July 20 2012 04:06 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
On July 20 2012 04:01 HiroPro wrote:
MZ, you think Zealos is scum?

I do actually. He came in, was under some pressure, and then promptly checked out once he was safe. To me that's always extremely scummy. If you were a serious lynch target you had better work your ass off to give town reason to keep you around next time. Zealos hasn't done that.


Show nested quote +
On July 20 2012 04:07 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
On July 20 2012 04:02 Blazinghand wrote:
I think Zealos is scum! The literal non-thread-reading and utter garbage that tries to look town but isn't makes him like my #1 scumread.

Well that's nice to know, I'd appreciate if you wrote out a case. You're lucky to not be dying today so I think you should make some serious contributions to give people reasons to rethink their position on you.


At the time Meapak is still sure that BH is mafia (though for some reason he writes a case on Rastaban instaed), but right after saying he thinks Zealos is mafia he weakly asks BH to write a case on Zealos.

Now he, just like Palmar was, is barely posting and doesn't seem to care at all.


Passivity is the name of the game. I have two recent memories of Meapak playing town, that is Liar mafia and LV. In Liar Mafia Meapak was a central figure, being a part of the meapak/gonzaw/ET town circle. More pertinently, in LV he believed he had found scum in VisceraEyes, and what did he do? He made a big case and then relentlessly pushed VE until he got his lynch. We have none of this here. Here he has 'found scum' in rastaban and makes a case. Except he never pushes anyone to lynch rastaban, even though he pops up on occasion to go "yeah rastaban is still scum" and the like. Meapak is uninvested and scum.


Marv just sheeping syllo lyk a baus. He also whips out that meta like there's no tomorrow. I've already established why I'm not tunnel city on rastaban so this whole post is worthless.

Show nested quote +
On July 22 2012 09:25 Katina wrote:
Meapak: Picks on easy targets for the most part. The only one he hard pushs is rastaban who hasn't been too active this game. He makes for an easy target. Meapak continues to push rastaban when it's clear that no one is going to go for it. His Mafia list is pretty meh, As I said the only hard read he has been pushing is rastaban to try and make it look like he's scum hunting so he doesn't draw too much suspicion.


Sheeping marv who's sheeping syllo.

if you somehow didn't catch it, meapak :-D


Come up with a real case lol
Forti et Fideli ~ TL Mafia Forum: Come play with us! ~ Go Samsung KHAN, Stork, JangBi , Shine, Grape, and TurN Fighting!~ wat
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
July 25 2012 08:36 GMT
#3345
I took a hit by the way
Meapak_Ziphh
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States6786 Posts
July 25 2012 08:39 GMT
#3346
sigh I guess I better do this one real quick as well.

On July 25 2012 17:21 supersoft wrote:
Second allegation:

Gamebalance and math:
alive:

11. Supersoft town
15. syllogism town
7. VisceraEyes killed scum very unlikely scum when Prob is scum
10. Meapak_Ziphh
8. Bill Murray townread (can't be executive)
18. Chezinu town
4. Probulous killed scum very unlikely scum when VE is scum

dead
25. RebirthofLegend town
19. Kurumi town
13. Wherebugsgo town
3. Sandroba town
16. GGQ town
26. Palmar scum
6. Foolishness scum

Setup speculation=bullshit

Third allegation:

you have no abilitys. We have 2 executives missing. Foolishness CEO flip indicates, that good players are in key positions.

Setup speculation=bullshit

Fourth allegation:

Foolishness refused to mention you, even though you were discussed day1.
Syllo attacked you day1 and got attacked by foolish and palmar.

This proves what? This logic is retarded. Foolishness was a CEO and Palmar was a goon. There's literally no way for them to have planned that. Also foolishness never mentioned a lot of people lol, that's a dumb point


You gotta do better than this supersoft.
Forti et Fideli ~ TL Mafia Forum: Come play with us! ~ Go Samsung KHAN, Stork, JangBi , Shine, Grape, and TurN Fighting!~ wat
Meapak_Ziphh
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States6786 Posts
July 25 2012 08:40 GMT
#3347
Now I'm actually going to bed.
Forti et Fideli ~ TL Mafia Forum: Come play with us! ~ Go Samsung KHAN, Stork, JangBi , Shine, Grape, and TurN Fighting!~ wat
supersoft
Profile Joined April 2010
Germany3729 Posts
July 25 2012 08:48 GMT
#3348
On July 25 2012 17:39 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
sigh I guess I better do this one real quick as well.

Show nested quote +
On July 25 2012 17:21 supersoft wrote:
Second allegation:

Gamebalance and math:
alive:

11. Supersoft town
15. syllogism town
7. VisceraEyes killed scum very unlikely scum when Prob is scum
10. Meapak_Ziphh
8. Bill Murray townread (can't be executive)
18. Chezinu town
4. Probulous killed scum very unlikely scum when VE is scum

dead
25. RebirthofLegend town
19. Kurumi town
13. Wherebugsgo town
3. Sandroba town
16. GGQ town
26. Palmar scum
6. Foolishness scum

Setup speculation=bullshit

Third allegation:

you have no abilitys. We have 2 executives missing. Foolishness CEO flip indicates, that good players are in key positions.

Setup speculation=bullshit

Fourth allegation:

Foolishness refused to mention you, even though you were discussed day1.
Syllo attacked you day1 and got attacked by foolish and palmar.

This proves what? This logic is retarded. Foolishness was a CEO and Palmar was a goon. There's literally no way for them to have planned that. Also foolishness never mentioned a lot of people lol, that's a dumb point


You gotta do better than this supersoft.


i could add some colors to make the design more appealing...
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
July 25 2012 08:52 GMT
#3349
Oh look another person Gonzaw was ignoring flipped mafia. Really, you forgot that he is in the game despite me calling layabout confirmed mafia and saying that he should be our lynch today?
supersoft
Profile Joined April 2010
Germany3729 Posts
July 25 2012 08:55 GMT
#3350
gonzaw should roleclaim as well.
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
July 25 2012 09:22 GMT
#3351
VE: I don't think Probulous is mafia, nor do I think you are. We should calm down and lynch into people who have been useless and/or on the wrong side of almost every mafia lynch/flip so far. If we ever reach a point we run out of such targets we can start entertaining wild theories, but there is almost no chance at all probulous is ever mafia given his play so far.

Similarly it's almost impossible for Chezinu to be mafia just based on what we know about the setup. The op states that

There is no upwards or lateral communication.


I don't know who Chezinu has actually claimed messaging, but this heavily indicates there is no mafia messenger role. The rules also say that communication between mafia is heavily censored, so if Chezinu sent BH a message, it's extremely unlikely that a not-so-subtle message like that would be approved if chezinu is mafia.
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
July 25 2012 09:25 GMT
#3352
Gonzaw has defended both laya and BH and didn't vote BH despite him being the other day 1 wagon. Pretty sure Gonzaw is the chairman or at least mafia.

##vote Gonzaw
risk.nuke
Profile Joined May 2010
Sweden2825 Posts
July 25 2012 09:26 GMT
#3353
I really don't believe this game is balanced around mirror-roles between scum and town. It makes no sense to have it that way and it would make all scumroles unviable without outing themselves and I find it hard to believe the hosts would make a system like that. Especially these hosts. It just doesn't make sense to me. VE tell me why you think it's so and give me a few arguments that isn't let's kill a few guys to find out. Especially when that won't even prove anything. This chezinu lynch came up of nowhere and darts past other candidates and doesn't look anything like town-agenda.
Neo.G Soulkey, Best, firebathero. // http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/index.php?show_part=31
supersoft
Profile Joined April 2010
Germany3729 Posts
July 25 2012 09:35 GMT
#3354
gonzaw is no thread compared to meapak. if we let him get away like that today we give town a wrong signal. and if we dont survive until tomorrow, he might use this to his advantage and to cast doubt. we have to get rid of him as long as we're still alive.
i am not at all disagreeing with a gonzawlynch, but i think he can wait since he has no pull at all.
supersoft
Profile Joined April 2010
Germany3729 Posts
July 25 2012 09:36 GMT
#3355
On July 25 2012 18:35 supersoft wrote:
gonzaw is no threat*** compared to meapak. if we let him get away like that today we give town a wrong signal. and if we dont survive until tomorrow, he might use this to his advantage and to cast doubt. we have to get rid of him as long as we're still alive.
i am not at all disagreeing with a gonzawlynch, but i think he can wait since he has no pull at all.


***fixd
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
July 25 2012 09:46 GMT
#3356
I'm much more confident about Gonzaw than meapak. There is no way meapak is going to be able to cast doubt on anything if he mafia. Gonzaw is pretty much guaranteed mafia and playing exactly like I would expect the chairman to play. He defended 2 chairman minions and attacked palmar on day 1, yet on day 3 he suddenly thought palmar was town. I wonder what changed his mind? Lets compare

On July 17 2012 14:50 gonzaw wrote:
About Palmars RL thingy:
Wait, Palmar tried to follow RL in iGrok's game yes (austin mentioned this I think)....but he was scum that game

I'm so fucking surprised at Mattchew and Foolishness that they assumed Palmar was town in that game and posted his RL thing with good intentions in mind...when he didn't.....because he was scum.
I'm more surprised at Mattchew for using it as evidence to shit on Katina. I would have thought a townie would check something twice if they'll use it as evidence someone else is scum.
I'll recheck Mattchew tomorrow, but I see him not caring about shit and posting sporadically, plus his first attack on Katina screamed of "picking an easy target".

About Palmar himself, he did that RL thing in iGrok's game and he was scum.
I don't see him doing shit this game, it's likely he's scum as well. However I don't know if he'd risk using his RL site thing 2 times in a row as scum both times, it seems obvious to me that someone would notice the similarity (I'm baffled how nobody noticed it to be honest, specially people that played in that game too, like VE and MZ).
I wouldn't mind lynching him, he's not doing shit and that seems to be his scum meta these days.


About Palmar:
I don't agree with this lynch at all. This lynch is based on him "being Executive because of balance issues" and because "Foo defended him without reason".


I also Palmar is most likely town.

Here is his filter this game: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=349678&user=87086
Here is his filter from iGrok's game: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=341558&user=87086

In iGrok's game he did stay to his "town aggressive Palmar" game on D1, but however as you can see from D2 onwards he stopped giving a shit about the game and just trolled from then on.
I don't see that this game. In D2 he even started to be active and give his reads and reasoning behind them, even more so than in D1, and that's not how scum Palmar plays, he's putting much more effort this game than when he's scum.



Wow really gonzaw, Palmar started putting in effort after day 2?

Just lynch gonzaw, he is guaranteed to flip mafia
risk.nuke
Profile Joined May 2010
Sweden2825 Posts
July 25 2012 09:52 GMT
#3357
Supersoft what kind of argument is that? Kill MZ because if every sensible person dies he's going to manipulate the town if he's scum. What's with the damn unwillingness to lynch actuall scum. We got people I've felt like nearly everyone agrees are scummy, like zealous or rastaban but somehow they don't die.

I'm going to vote Zealous now and everyone who's interested in killing scum should join in.
##Vote Zealous
Neo.G Soulkey, Best, firebathero. // http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/index.php?show_part=31
VisceraEyes
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States21171 Posts
July 25 2012 09:53 GMT
#3358
Well...it IS easier to sheep other people. And I DO think gonzaw is suspicious.

Let me think about it.
if I had to describe his playstyle, it'd be a coked up rabbit with the attention of a goldfish injecting caffeine into himself directly through an IV drip. it's like a reel of random animated shorts where things just blow up randomly
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
July 25 2012 09:53 GMT
#3359
Bill Murray can you steal maybe Sloosh's or Zealos' vote today? Both have claimed something so if it turns out that they have a day power, they are mafia.
syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
July 25 2012 09:54 GMT
#3360
Risk any thoughts on gonzaw? We are probably going to lynch him you know, I am going to insist
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