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United Kingdom36156 Posts
On July 25 2012 10:29 rastaban wrote:Show nested quote +On July 25 2012 10:24 marvellosity wrote:
I think that's particularly pointless speculation rastaban. I don't think it is, the biggest reason people said my case against him was flawed was because he appealed to emotion and they thought he wouldn't stoop to that. If he is scum it would explain some things and this fits into my argument that scum could appeal to emotion as well. Maybe he wouldn't stoop to using it to justify lurking but what if he was scum and wasn't into it either. It is certainly worth speculating on.
it's predicated on too many unlikely ifs
IF scum forgot to send in a kill
IF layabout was somehow in charge (unlikely)
already you're left with trying to extrapolate something which has a rather low probability of occurring in the first place. Evidence is hard enough when you're not having to assume, never mind when you're assuming based on those probabilities. That's why it's a waste of time.
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VE, why did you give the power to me and not supersoft?
I know I said I wouldn't argue but I really cannot understand your logic and this is hella important.
- You believe there are scum opposite to most roles, despite that only happening once and us having proof that is not the case for another role (why would scum save a nuke? They risk dying and nothing stops them as far as we know).
- You are a kingmaker and so based on your belief you decide that the other kingmaker must be scum. (Logical)
- Then you give your lynch to that kingmaker who you believe is scum (Illogical)
By your logic I should lynch you. I know I am town, if the mirror of my role is scum, then I must lynch you.
So either you don't believe there are mirror roles in which case you have been lying and discrediting me for no reason, or you believe there are mirror roles and therefore I am scum. If that is the case then you gave scum a free day vig.
Alternatively you don't know my alignment and are planning on using my choice to judge me. This seems the most reasonable (and is what you said) but then why suggest I am scum? You could have just given me the role and let me do my business. Then you judge me just the same, this suggestion that I am mafia makes your choice illogical.
I chose you because you were my strongest town read and I agreed with your reads. It's that simple. The fruit was born when you lynched Blazinghand. To be honest I was expecting you to choose Foolishness but he died before you could. It doesn't matter though. The whole point of the role is that you trust the person with a lynch. But you go out of your way to make it clear you don't trust me. Why?
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On the contrary Prob...I trust you implicitly to make the right choice with the power. You're right, by my logic you should lynch me. But you won't because A) if you're town, you've got a town read on me and you're better than that and B) if you're scum then you'll out yourself as scum by lynching me using my own reasoning. You'll be instantly lynched by this ravenous blood-thirsty crowd.
But you don't subscribe to my logic do you? Because you're attesting that you're town, and obviously you have a town read on me. So my logic is faulty. Fine. Do what you will with the lynch...but I know you're not an executive, so you don't know who scum are (at least, not with any kind of certainty) regardless of your alignment. If your choice is illogical or doesn't make sense or is scummy in any way, you have every eye on you watching what you do with it.
It's like I said in my post - everything I've seen you do has looked like town to me. Everything. If you're scum you're doing a phenomenal job. This was my way of trying to "throw you a curve-ball" if you'll excuse the local idiom.
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Ok, I think I get it now. You are basically trading one for one (in your mind at least). Given we have three scum dead that isn't a bad call. The only problem you have is there is no incentive for me (if I was scum) to not lynch a scummy looking townie. Or rather, avoid the scum I know. Given the number of targets we have it would be easy enough to justify.
Curve ball accepted. I assume you want me to pick someone at least a little controversial, otherwise how do you get a read on me right?
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On July 25 2012 11:06 Probulous wrote:
Ok, I think I get it now. You are basically trading one for one (in your mind at least). Given we have three scum dead that isn't a bad call. The only problem you have is there is no incentive for me (if I was scum) to not lynch a scummy looking townie. Or rather, avoid the scum I know. Given the number of targets we have it would be easy enough to justify.
Curve ball accepted. I assume you want me to pick someone at least a little controversial, otherwise how do you get a read on me right?
For shame Probulous, you want me to choose your target? Kinda defeats the purpose doesn't it?
I want you to lynch whoever you think has the highest chance of flipping scum, I'll give you no further instruction. I want the next blood I see to be red blood.
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This is a fucking stupid dance. Lynch MZ cause you VE supersoft and syllo (and myself) all agree he is scum. This doesn't have to be some stare down between you and VE...
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On July 25 2012 11:23 Mattchew wrote:
This is a fucking stupid dance. Lynch MZ cause you VE supersoft and syllo (and myself) all agree he is scum. This doesn't have to be some stare down between you and VE...
/:|
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On July 25 2012 11:23 Mattchew wrote:
This is a fucking stupid dance. Lynch MZ cause you VE supersoft and syllo (and myself) all agree he is scum. This doesn't have to be some stare down between you and VE...
no
none of you have a case. Since we're all suggesting targets, I'd say you should lynch zealos. He's just about confirmed red because of sandroba, once he's out of the way we can actually spend the day arguing with each other over who to lynch. While yesterday was great because we killed scum, it kinda sucked in terms of discussion because it was so obvious.
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lol this game keeps getting better and better.
It's possible a vet was hit or a medic saved someone, if we have roles like that in this game
Prob, I think you should better use your "lynch" by the 12-24 hour mark or so (or at least a little bit later than now)
You get 12-24 hours to figure out who to kill, but we have 24-36 hours to use the info from the flip to decide who to lynch (also so we don't lynch the killed guy).
About MZ:
I don't see nothing inherently scummy with his D1 play actually. He seems aggressive and involved in discussions.
But damn he stopped playing after that. Like 2 and a half pages of his filter come from D1, but only 1 and a half come from N1 onwards, and he doesn't post anything really interesting there.
The only scumhunting I've seen from him is calling rastaban out, and accuse Zealos/Kurumi/BH/Foolishness with little reasons; after that he just seems to argue with people and reiterate things over and over and not contribute with nothing else.
Yeah I wouldn't mind him dying. I'm not very confident in him being scum though, but I was wrong before and I trust that all of VE/Prob/syllo/etc are not idiots and see him as scum so he may as well be.
About austin:
Skimmed his filter, but I don't see anything that could make him town.
Even in these past few days he's focused on setup-related things (messages, traitor claiming, etc) and didn't really scumhunt at all. Plus he seems too "aggressive" and blunt, he was way more calm and "nooby" when he was town in Can't Believe.
In there he established his innocence pretty fast by making cases right off the bat and even going so long to check Risen's entire mafia history to check his alignment, and I don't see anything of that this game.
The only player I've seen him make a "case" against was GGQ, who only had 5 posts by then (and we know was town).
About marv:
He's too lazy this game. Out of his 10 pages of filter there are only a small percentage where he actually voices his opinions and takes an active stance in discussions. Other than that just asks questions and shit.
Hmm, I don't know if he'd be this lazy as scum though, plus he has a townie tone in his posts, like he seems genuinely bored and not just trying to blend in or anything.
I think he was more aggressive as scum in LV too
Meh, he's likely town.
Katina and Zealos are still scum.
The only ones I'm having doubts about right now are rastaban and risk.nuke, haven't checked them yet.
I'm still bewildered by the sloosh situation though:
@sloosh: Could you try to contribute more? Ever since you claimed you kind of disappeared and that's not helping you at all. Hell doesn't make sense if you are scum (fake-claim and then disappear) but doesn't make sense as town either so get going.
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On July 25 2012 11:57 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:Show nested quote +On July 25 2012 11:23 Mattchew wrote:
This is a fucking stupid dance. Lynch MZ cause you VE supersoft and syllo (and myself) all agree he is scum. This doesn't have to be some stare down between you and VE... no none of you have a case. Since we're all suggesting targets, I'd say you should lynch zealos. He's just about confirmed red because of sandroba, once he's out of the way we can actually spend the day arguing with each other over who to lynch. While yesterday was great because we killed scum, it kinda sucked in terms of discussion because it was so obvious.
MZ, what do you think of Katina, austin and other people discussed by now?
Yes, you've said "lynch Zealos" ever since N1, we already know you think he's scum.....so? What else?
You can't think you complaining about people are considered contributions. Plus if you are really town and you know you'll likely get killed by Prob/lynch you should post all your reads and try to contribute as fast as you can to make sure people know what you think once you die and are "confirmed town".
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lol forgot layabout was in this game
I'll check him tomorrow though, I'm going to sleep now.
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On July 25 2012 12:00 gonzaw wrote:Show nested quote +On July 25 2012 11:57 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:On July 25 2012 11:23 Mattchew wrote:
This is a fucking stupid dance. Lynch MZ cause you VE supersoft and syllo (and myself) all agree he is scum. This doesn't have to be some stare down between you and VE... no none of you have a case. Since we're all suggesting targets, I'd say you should lynch zealos. He's just about confirmed red because of sandroba, once he's out of the way we can actually spend the day arguing with each other over who to lynch. While yesterday was great because we killed scum, it kinda sucked in terms of discussion because it was so obvious. MZ, what do you think of Katina, austin and other people discussed by now? Yes, you've said "lynch Zealos" ever since N1, we already know you think he's scum.....so? What else? You can't think you complaining about people are considered contributions. Plus if you are really town and you know you'll likely get killed by Prob/lynch you should post all your reads and try to contribute as fast as you can to make sure people know what you think once you die and are "confirmed town".
Katina is... Katina. I got her lynched in liar game for play that was very similar to her play here. Her play style is definitely unique but I don't think she's scum this game.
Regarding austin, I had to look back through my own filter because I completely forgot what my earlier read of him was. I had him pegged as worthless town, however given that I had to look at my own filter to remember what I had previously thought of him I went and read his filter and I wasn't impressed. His attacks on sandroba look like a chainsaw defense of kurumi, and his attacks on GGQ look like a pathetic attempt to contribute. Other than that his filter is remarkably unremarkable so I'm gonna shift my read to scum.
Also for the record I want to kill sloosh as well.
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T_T I want to see some blood Probulous.
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Guys, guys...
On July 24 2012 04:05 VisceraEyes wrote:
One at a time. After Palmer we slow the f*** down and reassess. If Palmer flips Executive, town is in a really strong position and we have time.
Probulous has a kingly task ahead of him. Quit trying to pressure him into making a premature decision. Gah.
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mod-kill avoiding post...
I would also like to point out the fact that Chezinu, Bill Murray, and Viscera Eyes are all leading town discussion. What has happened to TLMafia?
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On July 25 2012 12:51 Q-bert-Z wrote:
mod-kill avoiding post...
I would also like to point out the fact that Chezinu, Bill Murray, and Viscera Eyes are all leading town discussion. What has happened to TLMafia?
Progress. Improvement. Go away if all you're going to do is underhandedly insult people TRYING to play the game.
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Fuck it
## lynch layabout
Do you want reasons or are you just happy to let me take the responsibility for his flip?
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On July 25 2012 13:01 Probulous wrote:
Fuck it
## lynch layabout
Do you want reasons or are you just happy to let me take the responsibility for his flip?
interesting
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No, we don't do things for reasons here Prob. *sigh*
I'm happy to let you take responsibility for your actions. If you choose to not give reasoning that's your deal.
I think layabout was a decent choice, though there are others I'd have chosen first.
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EPT
