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lol love risk's posts, short and to the point
On June 22 2012 16:46 rastaban wrote:
So marv would you mind answering the original question ( as leading as it may be) about what you feel are your tells, and second who do you feel is most likely scum?
Since you asked so nicely... I'm not really sure. I'm more careful as scum. Don't get myself into situations like these  I try to play similarly as scum as to town, so meh. More carefree with my thoughts as town I guess.
I still think VE is dodgy. Probably overestimating him as usual, but I feel like he should have been able to get a better grasp on me than this, and it makes me suspicious that he hasn't. Don't really blame Probulous so much.
Not particularly moved by the pressure on slOosh, from what I've seen of him he's usually cautious like this, especially on day 1.
Unsure where to place Zeph because of his dumb posting on millers, will wait for further content. Lack of relevancy at the moment. Somewhat suspicious because of the number of posts --> 0 content.
Zentor is abdicating responsibility for providing reads until tomorrow which isn't acceptable. It feels like he's trying to whimper his way into day 2. Response to pressure pretty poor (i momentarily took off my hypocrite hat). At the moment I would favour him to be lynched.
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I'm not fine with lynching marvellosity at the moment. From what I gather, he is a good player and the case against him consists mainly of meta and him not responsing straight to Mattchew's question. I agree that it's a bit scummy, but not enough to warrant lynching a good player. I'd rather lynch someone like rastaban:
On June 22 2012 16:46 rastaban wrote:
Just caught up on what is the "haps", here are my thoughts.
First, I agree with the Millers claim day one, and policy lynching all Millers after today. In a game where they are self aware it is a huge boon for town. The benefits far out way the negative of less people with possible blue roles. First and most importantly it guarantees our checks. Detectives know any red checks from non-mafia get lynched, since sanity isn't an issue in this game. Any Mafia will always claim miller if checked and we don't force a day 1 reveal. It will cause a lot of confusion, it is best to eliminate this by forcing day one claims. It also forces Mafia's hand, if they want to claim they have to do it now before they are in too much water. This is hard for mafia to do, they don't want to be scrutinized and that is why they claim miller as a last resort. While it is argued that Millers make it easier to snipe blues it also makes our blues more effective. Look at Bang Bang where I, as a doctor, pushed strongly for a miller claim night one.
Second, the focus of Marv makes me think of karma after seeing him do it to Gonzaw in our last game together. We need to be careful with tunneling though, when you push someone so hard day1, they will often come across as scum no matter what since the only content you have is them trying to defend themselves against accusations. He could be scum but I just want to say that we need to be cautious, as I feel the case against him is a bit biased. Now his day 1 "meta" is to spam 1 liners so I personally wouldn't mind him getting lynched if there isn't a better candidate but I feel like there is too much discussion on him this early in our day. Remember we have 48 hours, half that time hasn't even passed yet so I don't like the band wagoning on Marv so quickly.
That said I have a hard time getting anything from his filter right now. Some people analyze best when their quarry is under pressure but for me that introduces too many variables so I like to read posts where they aren't defending themselves. So marv would you mind answering the original question ( as leading as it may be) about what you feel are your tells, and second who do you feel is most likely scum?
His post a huge ball of fluff. The miller issue has already been argued to death, and everyone except Zephirdd agrees that millers should claim during D1. The second section consists of him arguing that it's dumb to tunnel players (marv in particular). In the end of it he says "Remember we have 48 hours, half that time hasn't even passed yet so I don't like the band wagoning on Marv so quickly." which initially makes him appear pro-town, but in reality it's just bullshit. What do you mean with the band-wagoning on marv going quickly? He just had 3 votes on him by the time you were writing this (2 now) and the only guys who seems very intent on lynching him is VE and Probulous (risk's vote looked more like a pressure vote). I mainly see scum posting unnecessary advice like this where they encourage everyone to be calm and collected when voting and not to rush things, especially when there isn't even any real bandwagoning going on.
@Snarfs
What do you mean with when you say that MrZentor tried to correct his errors in the recent WBG mini mafia? Did he play even worse before that? In EMM he only posted one-liners, and he could have been either scum or town; it was impossible to read him.
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EBWOP: @Snarfs
What do you mean with when you say that MrZentor tried to correct his errors in the recent WBG mini mafia? Did he play even worse before that? In EMM he only posted one-liners, and he could have been either scum or town; it was impossible to read him.
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Well, in WoF he self-voted at least twice and basically actively tried to get himself lynched as a townie. From there the only way is up.
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On June 22 2012 13:36 Probulous wrote:So you want to lynch Prpl then? He seems useless to me, he seemed useless in iGrok's game and was town. I won't get in your way if you want to lynch him I just can't tell if he is scum or not right now. Convince me 
I really resent how you keep saying that I was useless in iGrok's game. You try replacing into a game where everybody thinks you're scum because of something someone else did. Additionally I was busy with other stuff and my TL time somehow went to other things. I did read the thread and my first read was to lynch Radfield because he was alive. Radfield was scum and GMarshal had this to say after the game.
The second time I tried to really contribute I pointed out the last two scum, Mr. Wiggles and Radfield. I was a little flaky on GreYMisT because I hadn't read his filter but I was confident enough that Mr. Wiggles and Radfield were the remaining scum that that didn't stop me. I have no idea why you are even talking about that game in this game or why you insist on slandering me like that. Who made you a judge of anything?
On June 22 2012 13:41 MrZentor wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2012 08:24 Snarfs wrote:
@prplhz: Zentor realized the errors in his ways and has attempted to correct them (see wbg's last game). Could you show me where you believe he is stifling discussion? PRPLHZ, answer his question or I will be extremely angry with you!
Answering because I don't want to give you an excuse for anything. You said that people were being too aggressive.
On June 22 2012 13:43 VisceraEyes wrote:prplhz is good town player. I say this not because he's often right (because he's not) but because he's often very transparently town, like me. Surprisingly Normal Mini Mafia IIMy first game with prplhz. His play is much better these days, but this is a good illustration of what I mean when I say a good town player. Contributing, honest and willing to talk about things. Open with his suspicions, and reacts decently to pressure (ironically, I thought he was scum and tunneled him pretty bad.) Furthermore, I don't think prplhz is the type of player to bring a grudge like that between games. He's not that kind of player, and has been around long enough to know that's a losing strategy. He's putting on a show. I think so because look at how he reacts to my interaction with it. To be honest, I like my vote where it's at...I just don't want to stop scumhunting with marvel.
Why are you posting a game from like more than a year ago? This is my 21st town game in a row (not counting smurf games and requests), there are plenty of other more recent games you can pick. Also, I'm not putting on a show. While I don't want to play with zentor, he's still the best policy lynch because he is a perpetual null who plays for the scum team. I already said this and yea, I am pretty serious about this.
On June 22 2012 18:31 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2012 16:46 rastaban wrote:
Now his day 1 "meta" is to spam 1 liners so I personally wouldn't mind him getting lynched if there isn't a better candidate What an exceptionally stupid thing to say, well done.
Please, manner.
@risk.nuke In Pick Your Poison you put yourself in a position on day3 where everybody else thought you were scum and you couldn't defend yourself because you hadn't shown your investment in the game during the previous days. You ended up getting mislynched and you in big part responsible for this yourself. You are doing this again right now. Please be more active.
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Also, Shraft and Snarfs need to do something about their nicks.
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It's posts like the one slOosh also pointed out where MrZentor says that he'll contribute tomorrow because there's nothing in the thread today that makes it pretty clear that he's a solid day1 lynch. While he also said that in Wheel of Fortune mafia, you can't just let people go saying scummy things just because they also say them as town. You lynch into the scummiest guy even if he has a reputation for being scummy as town. He's just going to be a headache this game and right now it doesn't look like he cares or wants to change that.
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Inclined to agree with you prplhz.
Really need to hear from von klaust. He was active and contributory in his newbie game. As his username was different then, you can find his filter here.
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Prphlz, what you fail to realize is that different things are scummy for different players.
I always need a little time to digest the information.
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Yea that's just not what you said.
You said that you wouldn't contribute until tomorrow because there's wasn't anything in the thread. Now you're saying it's because you need time to think about what's in the thread. It sounds to me like you don't have an opinion about something very central to townies: how to catch scum. Instead you're just making stuff up on the fly.
Really, we're lynching MrZentor today.
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I am going to put all of Prplhz's posts in the spoiler and why each one is him making a joke, tunneling me, defending himself, talking about some other game, or some combination of those things. In summary, he hasn't done anything useful, like scum hunting.
+ Show Spoiler +On June 22 2012 07:38 prplhz wrote:
I always do stuff. If you didn't notice, before I died I pointed out the last two scum. Everybody was just lynching me because of something someone else did which sucked out my motivation but I still read thread and filters.
How exactly is zentor in a game that he /outed? Him talking about another game. On June 22 2012 07:41 prplhz wrote:
Okay whatever the fuck. I joined this game because I thought zentor had outed by meh. zentor is the default lynch for today because he's an unpleasant person just to have around. In case we don't find anything better then he should die just because of how destructive he is when he's town. I played with it once and I don't want to play with it again.
##Vote: MrZentor Him tunneling me. On June 22 2012 07:52 prplhz wrote:
Okay here's a case I just made up:
prplhz: Lets policy lynch zentor because he's the one I have had the worst experience playing with!
zentor: What, I'm not scum!
Well no one ever said that you were so why are you already denying it?
How about that?
Anyway, I am suggesting a policy lynch on zentor unless we find something better and I don't think that that's a bad idea at all, actually it's a pretty good idea. Who would you policy lynch VisceraEyes? Just someone random? I'm sure we can have one of the lovely hosts pick out a random number for us (so we don't have to deal with all that derp about how you pick an actually random person that we had in iGrok's game). Him tunneling me again. On June 22 2012 08:05 prplhz wrote:
@VisceraEyes So am I a lurker or a liar since you are voting me? Defending himself. On June 22 2012 08:10 prplhz wrote:
Hey zentor you don't get to say shit like that and you know why.
Anyway, zentor is actually complaining that he is being focused and cracking under pressure but he is not providing anything else we should talk about, just trying to stifle ongoing discussion. On page 2. Tunneling me On June 22 2012 21:07 prplhz wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2012 13:36 Probulous wrote:So you want to lynch Prpl then? He seems useless to me, he seemed useless in iGrok's game and was town. I won't get in your way if you want to lynch him I just can't tell if he is scum or not right now. Convince me I really resent how you keep saying that I was useless in iGrok's game. You try replacing into a game where everybody thinks you're scum because of something someone else did. Additionally I was busy with other stuff and my TL time somehow went to other things. I did read the thread and my first read was to lynch Radfield because he was alive. Radfield was scum and GMarshal had this to say after the game. The second time I tried to really contribute I pointed out the last two scum, Mr. Wiggles and Radfield. I was a little flaky on GreYMisT because I hadn't read his filter but I was confident enough that Mr. Wiggles and Radfield were the remaining scum that that didn't stop me. I have no idea why you are even talking about that game in this game or why you insist on slandering me like that. Who made you a judge of anything? Show nested quote +On June 22 2012 13:41 MrZentor wrote:On June 22 2012 08:24 Snarfs wrote:
@prplhz: Zentor realized the errors in his ways and has attempted to correct them (see wbg's last game). Could you show me where you believe he is stifling discussion? PRPLHZ, answer his question or I will be extremely angry with you! Answering because I don't want to give you an excuse for anything. You said that people were being too aggressive. Show nested quote +On June 22 2012 13:43 VisceraEyes wrote:prplhz is good town player. I say this not because he's often right (because he's not) but because he's often very transparently town, like me. Surprisingly Normal Mini Mafia IIMy first game with prplhz. His play is much better these days, but this is a good illustration of what I mean when I say a good town player. Contributing, honest and willing to talk about things. Open with his suspicions, and reacts decently to pressure (ironically, I thought he was scum and tunneled him pretty bad.) Furthermore, I don't think prplhz is the type of player to bring a grudge like that between games. He's not that kind of player, and has been around long enough to know that's a losing strategy. He's putting on a show. I think so because look at how he reacts to my interaction with it. To be honest, I like my vote where it's at...I just don't want to stop scumhunting with marvel. Why are you posting a game from like more than a year ago? This is my 21st town game in a row (not counting smurf games and requests), there are plenty of other more recent games you can pick. Also, I'm not putting on a show. While I don't want to play with zentor, he's still the best policy lynch because he is a perpetual null who plays for the scum team. I already said this and yea, I am pretty serious about this. Show nested quote +On June 22 2012 18:31 marvellosity wrote:On June 22 2012 16:46 rastaban wrote:
Now his day 1 "meta" is to spam 1 liners so I personally wouldn't mind him getting lynched if there isn't a better candidate What an exceptionally stupid thing to say, well done. Please, manner. @risk.nuke In Pick Your Poison you put yourself in a position on day3 where everybody else thought you were scum and you couldn't defend yourself because you hadn't shown your investment in the game during the previous days. You ended up getting mislynched and you in big part responsible for this yourself. You are doing this again right now. Please be more active. A giant, contentless, post in which he talks about another game, doesn't really answer my question, and says some guy should have manners. -.- On June 22 2012 21:11 prplhz wrote:
It's posts like the one slOosh also pointed out where MrZentor says that he'll contribute tomorrow because there's nothing in the thread today that makes it pretty clear that he's a solid day1 lynch. While he also said that in Wheel of Fortune mafia, you can't just let people go saying scummy things just because they also say them as town. You lynch into the scummiest guy even if he has a reputation for being scummy as town. He's just going to be a headache this game and right now it doesn't look like he cares or wants to change that. Blah Blah tunneling me On June 22 2012 21:47 prplhz wrote:
Yea that's just not what you said.
You said that you wouldn't contribute until tomorrow because there's wasn't anything in the thread. Now you're saying it's because you need time to think about what's in the thread. It sounds to me like you don't have an opinion about something very central to townies: how to catch scum. Instead you're just making stuff up on the fly.
Really, we're lynching MrZentor today. More tunneling!
Also, Sloosh is a liar face.
On June 22 2012 11:30 slOosh wrote:
Weak. The only reason I keep bringing the miller thing up is because Zephirdd is insistent that millers don't claim, and if we aren't clear now then it's gonna come back later and bite us in the butt, regardless of his alignment (actually hurt us more if he is town).
Right now my main suspicion is Snarfs. I brought it up before about his question of prplhz. I believe it reveals a(n intentional) lack of comprehension. Prplhz never said Zentor was stifling discussion. He made it pretty clear that he just didn't like playing with him. I find Snarf's particular way of questioning "off". I know it's no 3 point case, but it's what I have right now. His follow up post doesn't inspire anything either - he calls out Zephirdd for weak contributions yet he himself is guilty of the same thing thus far. Contrast that to his clearly excited pre-game chatter.
Prob I don't understand your concern of me about my stance on the marv thing. I think the Marv - VE back and forth is really messy and would rather not have a thread full of that. I'm not advocating a shut down of discussion - only a shut down of needless spam / one liners. Consolidation always helps town. Spam never does. I think your little case on Marv is decent - I never said I thought you think he is town.
On June 22 2012 08:10 prplhz wrote:
Hey zentor you don't get to say shit like that and you know why.
Anyway, zentor is actually complaining that he is being focused and cracking under pressure but he is not providing anything else we should talk about, just trying to stifle ongoing discussion. On page 2.
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+ Show Spoiler +On June 22 2012 09:54 VisceraEyes wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2012 09:52 marvellosity wrote:
Don't be an idiot. Why would I let myself in for this (fairly predictable, even if how long and hard it has continued was not) when I didn't have to? Use your noggin. See, the funny part is that you could ask yourself the same question. Why would you put yourself in this situation as town? It doesn't make any fucking sense. On June 22 2012 09:56 marvellosity wrote:
a) because i'm unafraid
b) because i get information from who and how i'm pushed On June 22 2012 19:17 marvellosity wrote:Since you asked so nicely... I'm not really sure. I'm more careful as scum. Don't get myself into situations like these I try to play similarly as scum as to town, so meh. More carefree with my thoughts as town I guess.
I don't really like this play from Marv. One of the textbooks examples of trying to separate scum from town is to try to figure out how they post. If they are very deliberate and seem a little scared of posting it could mean they are more likely to be mafia, and if they seem more spontaneous and carefree in their posting then it could mean they are more likely to be town. Normally this is far from a proper clue, more just something to keep in back of your mind, but the way Marv keeps saying that he is just so darn carefree with posting makes me spider sense tingle. It also fits conveniently well with his defence.
+ Show Spoiler +On June 22 2012 09:50 marvellosity wrote:
I've quite clearly stated I am not, stop it. The similar thing, VE, is that I wasn't afraid of saying something that was scummy in that game. In this game, unless you underestimate me which I think you do not, you should be aware that I know making a sidestep to Mattchew's question could be viewed scummily, and I'd avoid it like the fucking plague if I were scum.
This one is the same thing, just a little more tricky. He's pretty much saying: If I was scum, I would be much more careful in my play and since I'm not careful in my play it hints to me being town.
The same thing over again. I'm carefree - therefore I'm town.
Other than this I pretty much agree with this ---> http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=15183090 <--- post which I thought was excellent and got this ---> http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=15183132 <--- very underwhelming answer.
And this also quite excellent post ---> http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=15183197 <--- which got an equally underwhelming reply ---> http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=15183210 <---
On June 22 2012 19:01 risk.nuke wrote:
##Unvote: marvellosity
##Vote: von Klaust II
Eeeeeasy now buddy! We're all just friends here OK?
Also, today is midsummer celebration which is one of the biggest holidays here in Schwedenland so It's not impossible that I won't post anything more today. Happy midsummer!
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when someone is specifically asking me about my meta and my style of posting, what would you rather I said?
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On June 22 2012 22:33 marvellosity wrote:
when someone is specifically asking me about my meta and my style of posting, what would you rather I said?
+ Show Spoiler +On June 22 2012 09:54 VisceraEyes wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2012 09:52 marvellosity wrote:
Don't be an idiot. Why would I let myself in for this (fairly predictable, even if how long and hard it has continued was not) when I didn't have to? Use your noggin. See, the funny part is that you could ask yourself the same question. Why would you put yourself in this situation as town? It doesn't make any fucking sense. On June 22 2012 09:56 marvellosity wrote:
a) because i'm unafraid
b) because i get information from who and how i'm pushed
This was where you started going on about being carefree as town. This had nothing to do VE asking you for your meta as town/scum. He just asked you why you put yourself in this situation in the first place if you know that it would put you at risk. And not only did it start all the talk about being care free. It's also nonsensical.
It doesn't matter how afraid our not you are, putting yourself in a bad situation is BAD. Making people think you are scum because you wanted to "get information from who and how you're pushed" is not worth the trade of making people suspicious of you and putting the focus on you and hence taking focus off others.
And sure, you kinda answered the question but I don't think that "I play more care free as town" really counts as a proper answer. Escpecially not after all that slithering. Most people are more careful as scum and your answer pretty much doesn't say anything about your actuall play.
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EBWOP:
##Vote: marvellosity
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That's because my scumplay is so fucking awesome no-one ever suspects me, and so I have very few tells to differentiate my play (as far as I'm aware!).
I agree it wasn't ideal and if I had my time again I'd just answer the question the first time.
Also don't blame me for taking the focus off others. I didn't force you to make your entire post about me, you could have commented on anything else, yet you chose not to.
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I find it quite interesting you take umbrage about my answers on how I post, when clearly you have little to no idea of how I play and my previous games, and you clearly don't care to look despite making everything you post about it.
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On June 22 2012 22:53 marvellosity wrote:
That's because my scumplay is so fucking awesome no-one ever suspects me, and so I have very few tells to differentiate my play (as far as I'm aware!).
I agree it wasn't ideal and if I had my time again I'd just answer the question the first time.
Also don't blame me for taking the focus off others. I didn't force you to make your entire post about me, you could have commented on anything else, yet you chose not to.
Ofc i would blame you for taking the focus from the real scum if you would happen to flip town. Do you expect us to just ignore the weird stuff you've been writing? Yes, I chose to because I think you have been playing scummy, and you aknowledge that yourself in this post.
On June 22 2012 09:50 marvellosity wrote:
I've quite clearly stated I am not, stop it. The similar thing, VE, is that I wasn't afraid of saying something that was scummy in that game. In this game, unless you underestimate me which I think you do not, you should be aware that I know making a sidestep to Mattchew's question could be viewed scummily, and I'd avoid it like the fucking plague if I were scum.
1. You agree with the statement that sidestepping Mattchews question could be viewed as scummy.
2. You would avoid doing that as scum i.e. it would point to you being scum.
You agree both that it would seem scummy and that it actually is scummy. Still you did it. It doesn't make point from any perspecive and makes me think you're just trying to fill holes you made with bad play.
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On June 22 2012 23:03 vonKlaust II wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2012 09:50 marvellosity wrote:
I've quite clearly stated I am not, stop it. The similar thing, VE, is that I wasn't afraid of saying something that was scummy in that game. In this game, unless you underestimate me which I think you do not, you should be aware that I know making a sidestep to Mattchew's question could be viewed scummily, and I'd avoid it like the fucking plague if I were scum.
1. You agree with the statement that sidestepping Mattchews question could be viewed as scummy. 2. You would avoid doing that as scum i.e. it would point to you being scum. You agree both that it would seem scummy and that it actually is scummy. Still you did it. It doesn't make point from any perspecive and makes me think you're just trying to fill holes you made with bad play.
I didn't make a conscious decision to go 'lol gonna appear scummy now'. I read Matt's post and made a reply to it without giving it that much thought. The point being I give every post I make as scum due thought.
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EPT
