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Oberyn
Profile Joined December 2011
United Kingdom508 Posts
June 27 2012 22:05 GMT
#421
NOBODY PLAY/CAST/TAP ANYTHING UNTIL YOU'VE READ THE WHOLE THREAD

Thank you for your attention
Oberyn was ever the viper. Deadly, dangerous, unpredictable. No man dared tread on him.
Oberyn
Profile Joined December 2011
United Kingdom508 Posts
June 27 2012 22:16 GMT
#422
Look at those caps. He must be serious.
Oberyn was ever the viper. Deadly, dangerous, unpredictable. No man dared tread on him.
Oberyn
Profile Joined December 2011
United Kingdom508 Posts
June 27 2012 22:16 GMT
#423
On June 28 2012 06:56 strongandbig wrote:
##Cast: Swamp
##Tap: Swamp, Swamp, Swamp
##Cast: Nantuko Husk


Wow S&B, thank you for your help so much.
Thank you so much for reading the thread, posting your reads and comments on the plans discussed, and discuss things with town before making a play. Thank you so so much.


(although I realize I made the "everybody don't do anything" post after you posted this....but wtf? This is as bad as a ninja-vote, you need to explain wtf you are doing).



Actually, I want EVERYBODY to explain what they are doing. Why are you summoning creature X? Why are you casting spell X? Do you have a plan to kill scum with it? Do you want to summon monsters to block yourself from attacks from scum? What?


Your plays are your vote, not explaining your plays are like not explaining your votes.
Oberyn was ever the viper. Deadly, dangerous, unpredictable. No man dared tread on him.
Oberyn
Profile Joined December 2011
United Kingdom508 Posts
June 27 2012 22:18 GMT
#424
On June 28 2012 07:16 Oberyn wrote:
Look at those caps. He must be serious.


Shut up alternate personality!
Oberyn was ever the viper. Deadly, dangerous, unpredictable. No man dared tread on him.
strongandbig
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States4858 Posts
June 27 2012 22:25 GMT
#425
Hey so idk if my bro is gonna post in here too (we agreed on our play and he posted it).

I'll just post my reasoning and if he posts his as well then great.

I'm ambivalent on the "town beast" idea. Tbh we decided on our play before that was proposed, but I suspect we would have done the same thing regardless.

Here's why I think the town beast isn't a good idea.
First, it delays by a turn the buildup of decks of the people who give mana to play it. The scum monster gets to build up but our decks don't - given the ramp method of decks like ours, playing a creature each turn is very important. Basically, playing the town beast gives a jump in town power, but it doesn't increase the rate at which town will gain power over the rest of the game. It's like going for a two base timing instead of taking a third.
Second, the downside is potentially quite large if it goes rogue. It's kind of like electing a mayor who says "I'll do whatever town decides" - there's downside.

That said, I'm not convinced that the downside of point two outweighs the potential upside in increased town KP.
If enough people have mana sitting around that would otherwise go unused, they should use that mana for whatever they see fit, including potentially helping summon the avatar of whatever. But I recommend that players with tribal decks or other buildup decks use their mana to build up their board position.
"It's the torso" "only more so!"
strongandbig
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States4858 Posts
June 27 2012 22:28 GMT
#426
Oh I see Gonzaw posted again while I was typing this on my phone.

Yeah so if you want more detail: we played nantucket husk because playing a creature each turn is important to building up board position and being able to kill scum later on in the game.
"It's the torso" "only more so!"
strongandbig
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States4858 Posts
June 27 2012 22:29 GMT
#427
Lol Nantucket husk. Friggen auto correct.
"It's the torso" "only more so!"
Oberyn
Profile Joined December 2011
United Kingdom508 Posts
June 27 2012 22:31 GMT
#428
We have currently 12 untapped lands:

Obreyn: 2 Islands
Matt: 2 Mountains:
WBG: 1 Island
Fulla: 2 Mountains
Zealos: 1 Swamp
Prome: 2 Plains
Nova: 2 Forests


We can use these lands to make almost ANY play we want, if we all coordinate and cooperate instead of playing individually.
If you have a card that says "Instantly wins the game for town" but it requires 12 mana, we can cast it

There are endless possbilities. If we figure out someone is town, we can give him plenty of mana to buffer him up so he acts as our proxy to kill scum (like that plan I made with Nova's card).
We can distribute the mana evenly among players who need it the most so they can cast more summons or more shit.
We can do almost anything, so please don't tap anything yet.


Really people, don't do anything at all until we've discussed things through and exhausted every possible plan we can make; like I said, there is no hurry, you can even make your play 1 minute before the deadline, so you have more than 45 hours to make your play.


Also don't give me crap about how I'm spamming or something right now, I'll be dead very soon so you can enjoy your total silence then.
Oberyn was ever the viper. Deadly, dangerous, unpredictable. No man dared tread on him.
Oberyn
Profile Joined December 2011
United Kingdom508 Posts
June 27 2012 22:37 GMT
#429
On June 28 2012 07:28 strongandbig wrote:
Oh I see Gonzaw posted again while I was typing this on my phone.

Yeah so if you want more detail: we played nantucket husk because playing a creature each turn is important to building up board position and being able to kill scum later on in the game.


A 8/8 beast with trample can basically kill a scum in like 2-3 turns by itself, not counting other attacks on said scum.
The only problem is if Nova was scum....but I doubt that; and EVEN if that was the case he'll have to follow our orders since a simple AEther Spellbomb (that's already in play) can let us get rid of the beast so we kill him later.

Nobody will destroy the monster either since scum have to "blend in", if they destroy the 8/8 beast they are basically claiming scum.


You can "build up the board position" after you summon him. Also, if the plan is to have YOU summon a 2/2 monster that can help town...then we have 6 mana to spare we can arrange that for you as well if it's the best for town.

Also, don't tell me that we have 0 creatures out or some shit (it's not true everybody except us has at least 1 monster out); and you can't do too much with 1 or 2 mana, which is what I'd ask of everybody to give to Nova for him to summon that beast.
Oberyn was ever the viper. Deadly, dangerous, unpredictable. No man dared tread on him.
WereBugs-Go
Profile Joined June 2012
Korea (South)172 Posts
June 27 2012 22:41 GMT
#430
Btw the reason I played a 1 mana myr and the spellbomb instead of something else is because I'd need one more mana for my other myr I could play.

I'm talking about my + Show Spoiler [Myr Enforcer] +
[image loading]


Casting a myr that an artifact that costs 1 mana doesn't "cost" me a thing because it gets cheaper for every artifact. Yes Greymist asked me if I'm running affinities, I said "not exactly" because I'm running on myrs although 2 of my cards in my deck have affinites.
As you can see I spend 2 mana but kind of got 2 mana that way as well, considering the enforcer because I can't play anything else anyways.

That's why I casted both the myr and the spellbomb costing 1 mana each. That way I'm "preserving" my mana for the next round in lowering the cost for the next one and that's why I don't really want to sacrifice the spellbomb this turn.

Not sure what to make of the 8/8 creature yet... Yes it would be incredible strong but playing several weaker (2/2, 3/3, 4/4 I could for example play a 4/4 for 3 mana which is incredible mana efficient) creatures would work the same way while distributing the power a little better.
Oberyn
Profile Joined December 2011
United Kingdom508 Posts
June 27 2012 22:42 GMT
#431
Also people, this may be the only chance we get to summon that beast, since we may not get a similar global enchantment in the rest of the game.

Of course, that's not the only option we have, but it's the only one I can come up with with the knowledge I have.
I don't know the other cards you guys have, maybe we can plan something better with those as well; so if you have any suggestions throw them out.

I think this would be a VERY good time to out our hands, but well maybe it's not necessary.


Observation: Outing our hands doesn't really give scum that much advantage. Yes, they will know the cards we have...but unless they are already caught they won't be able to do anything if they want to blend in. If they are already caught we just slaughter them with the 8/8 beast


Pre-Edit: OMG OMG


Yes I have a plan...we MUST summon that beast (kita you know what I'm talking about)
Oberyn was ever the viper. Deadly, dangerous, unpredictable. No man dared tread on him.
WereBugs-Go
Profile Joined June 2012
Korea (South)172 Posts
June 27 2012 22:44 GMT
#432
EBWOP
+ Show Spoiler [clicky] +
On June 28 2012 07:41 WereBugs-Go wrote:
Btw the reason I played a 1 mana myr and the spellbomb instead of something else is because I'd need one more mana for my other myr I could play.

I'm talking about my + Show Spoiler [Myr Enforcer] +
[image loading]


Casting a myr or an artifact that costs 1 mana doesn't "cost" me a thing because it gets cheaper for every artifact. Yes Greymist asked me if I'm running affinities, I said "not exactly" because I'm running on myrs although 2 of my cards in my deck have affinites.
As you can see I spend 2 mana but kind of got 2 mana that way as well, considering the enforcer because I can't play anything else anyways.

That's why I casted both the myr and the spellbomb costing 1 mana each. That way I'm "preserving" my mana for the next round in lowering the cost for the next one and that's why I don't really want to sacrifice the spellbomb this turn.

Not sure what to make of the 8/8 creature yet... Yes it would be incredible strong but playing several weaker (2/2, 3/3, 4/4 I could for example play a 4/4 for 3 mana which is incredible mana efficient) creatures would work the same way while distributing the power a little better.

Oberyn
Profile Joined December 2011
United Kingdom508 Posts
June 27 2012 22:45 GMT
#433
OMG OMG


This people! This!


[image loading]

That's the "4 mana" creature we have

We can have 2 8/8 trample beasts!
We have 12 untapped mana, we only need 10 to summon both.


I rest my case
Oberyn was ever the viper. Deadly, dangerous, unpredictable. No man dared tread on him.
Oberyn
Profile Joined December 2011
United Kingdom508 Posts
June 27 2012 22:45 GMT
#434
Sorry kita if you had something else planned but this is just too much.
We are going to die soon so the Clone card would have been useless still (had I not claimed it).
Oberyn was ever the viper. Deadly, dangerous, unpredictable. No man dared tread on him.
Oberyn
Profile Joined December 2011
United Kingdom508 Posts
June 27 2012 22:52 GMT
#435
On June 28 2012 07:41 WereBugs-Go wrote:
Btw the reason I played a 1 mana myr and the spellbomb instead of something else is because I'd need one more mana for my other myr I could play.

I'm talking about my + Show Spoiler [Myr Enforcer] +
[image loading]


Casting a myr that an artifact that costs 1 mana doesn't "cost" me a thing because it gets cheaper for every artifact. Yes Greymist asked me if I'm running affinities, I said "not exactly" because I'm running on myrs although 2 of my cards in my deck have affinites.
As you can see I spend 2 mana but kind of got 2 mana that way as well, considering the enforcer because I can't play anything else anyways.

That's why I casted both the myr and the spellbomb costing 1 mana each. That way I'm "preserving" my mana for the next round in lowering the cost for the next one and that's why I don't really want to sacrifice the spellbomb this turn.

Not sure what to make of the 8/8 creature yet... Yes it would be incredible strong but playing several weaker (2/2, 3/3, 4/4 I could for example play a 4/4 for 3 mana which is incredible mana efficient) creatures would work the same way while distributing the power a little better.



Okay, I think you are town and that card seems good, we could also borrow you 4 mana to summon it.

Yes, the important thing is that the beast has "trample". Even if someone blocks it will still deliver like 5-6 damage directly.
It's basically the "town beast" counterpart to scum's, since we CAN attack ANYBODY directly (well...Nova can but Nova will do what we tell him right? )

Next turn me+kita will be alive as well (most likely with 2 HP though >_> ), and there our "Cloned" beast can attack as well, so we'll have 16 "trampled" power to use for town.

I want people to really think about this and tell me if they really want such an opportunity to pass by (if we do this and Nova is actually scum then I'll fuck some shit up).

........actually...


...damn kita, you said our deck was useless, but I know of another card we have that could basically win us the game, too bad we most likely won't be alive to use it
Oberyn was ever the viper. Deadly, dangerous, unpredictable. No man dared tread on him.
WereBugs-Go
Profile Joined June 2012
Korea (South)172 Posts
June 27 2012 23:00 GMT
#436
Yeah that clone of yours changes things a lot.
Nova can get a 8/8 creature with trample with 6 mana additional mana
You can get a 8/8 creature with trample with 4 more mana (10 in total)
I could get a 4/4 creature without trample with 2 mana (12 in total).

Obviously the trample makes it awesome but if we could get 3 4/4 creatures like mine that'd be basicly 12/12 spread on 3 creatures. That's why I said mine is manaefficient but I'm probably the only one with something like that :p

However, we prooobably need mafias help to get this going. Yeah they can't just say nah because that'd out them but idk if we can make this happen. We need to talk this trough and what we're doing if people don't stick to the plan because one guy jeopardizing it could be the end to both 8/8 creatures. I think playing several smaller creatures is better than having one big 8/8 creature with trample but having 2 8/8 creatures with trample, especially if the 2nd is as fucking mana efficient as what you've linked would be waaaay better.

So I'd say if we're going for it we're going for both 8/8 creatures, if we can't get that happen I don't really like it that much.
Oberyn
Profile Joined December 2011
United Kingdom508 Posts
June 27 2012 23:01 GMT
#437
On June 28 2012 07:45 Oberyn wrote:
OMG OMG


This people! This!


[image loading]

That's the "4 mana" creature we have

We can have 2 8/8 trample beasts!
We have 12 untapped mana, we only need 10 to summon both.


I rest my case


Actually we need all 12 mana.


Here's how:

These players tap your land and give it to Nova:

Obreyn: 1 Islands
Matt: 2 Mountains
WBG: 1 Island
Prome: 2 Plains

Nova: Tap 2 Forests, use 6 mana and summon "Avatar of Might"

These players tap your land and give it to Oberyn:

Fulla: 2 Mountains
Zealos: 1 Swamp

Oberyn: Tap 1 Island, use 3 mana and summon "Clone" targeting "Avatar of Might"

I'd say this because if Zealos is scum he'd be more reluctant to follow the plan, but I'd prefer him to be reluctant but still having Nova's creature
Oberyn was ever the viper. Deadly, dangerous, unpredictable. No man dared tread on him.
Oberyn
Profile Joined December 2011
United Kingdom508 Posts
June 27 2012 23:07 GMT
#438
On June 28 2012 08:00 WereBugs-Go wrote:
Yeah that clone of yours changes things a lot.
Nova can get a 8/8 creature with trample with 6 mana additional mana
You can get a 8/8 creature with trample with 4 more mana (10 in total)
I could get a 4/4 creature without trample with 2 mana (12 in total).

Obviously the trample makes it awesome but if we could get 3 4/4 creatures like mine that'd be basicly 12/12 spread on 3 creatures. That's why I said mine is manaefficient but I'm probably the only one with something like that :p

However, we prooobably need mafias help to get this going. Yeah they can't just say nah because that'd out them but idk if we can make this happen. We need to talk this trough and what we're doing if people don't stick to the plan because one guy jeopardizing it could be the end to both 8/8 creatures. I think playing several smaller creatures is better than having one big 8/8 creature with trample but having 2 8/8 creatures with trample, especially if the 2nd is as fucking mana efficient as what you've linked would be waaaay better.

So I'd say if we're going for it we're going for both 8/8 creatures, if we can't get that happen I don't really like it that much.



Well...Greymist doesn't have any lands left...so I don't see why we would need scum's help >_> <_<

Although being serious, I can't see anyone other than Zealos (if he's scum) completely object with this plan if EVERYBODY else agrees with it (those that give land of course).
By the way I planned it up there, Zealos can only object to ME having the "Cloned" 8/8 beast, not Nova having it. If everybody except him agrees....we can threaten to use Nova's beast on him if he doesn't.


Yes, we should discuss it all we want, as much as we can. We have all the time in the world, we don't need to rush.
But like I said, nobody should play anything yet because if they do we lose the chance of getting these 2 8/8 beasts out completely (even if they cast a spell with 1 mana cost).


Also WBG, what do you think of Grey? I think he may be scum, please give me your opinion on this:

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=345422&currentpage=21#405

And this:

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=345422&currentpage=21#419

Specially because Greymist already tapped ALL his lands as soon as the turn started, which seems quite a coincidence taking into account the global enchantment we have today
Oberyn was ever the viper. Deadly, dangerous, unpredictable. No man dared tread on him.
Oberyn
Profile Joined December 2011
United Kingdom508 Posts
June 27 2012 23:11 GMT
#439
Actually, we have 13 mana, because of Zealos' Brass City:

[image loading]

Not that it matters much though (we'd need more mana to make you summon your 4/4 beast WBG)

Oberyn was ever the viper. Deadly, dangerous, unpredictable. No man dared tread on him.
Oberyn
Profile Joined December 2011
United Kingdom508 Posts
June 27 2012 23:13 GMT
#440
Okay I said everything I needed to say, people you have A LOT to comment on:

For the "setup-junkies":
  • My " 2 8/8 trample beasts" plan

For the ones that want to scumhunt:
  • My Greymist case.


There's entertainment for all audiences!
Oberyn was ever the viper. Deadly, dangerous, unpredictable. No man dared tread on him.
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