TL Mafia LVI

On July 01 2012 12:26 BroodKingEXE wrote:
Guys, Im up for lynching Kat.



The justification of Kat voting for me is: VE and Im trying to blend in. Hiding behind VE’s accusation is a way for her when the vote goes bad and make herself look better to anybody else who views VE as a likely town. Im trying to blend in? Lots of other people are blending in, I got a list of lurkers in my notes to prove it. If I was Mafia wouldn’t it make more sense to wait and post later or not at all to blend in?

Next Post Falls in with the Casual and BKE crowd interestingly the only two major candidates up at the time.



Yo, what?! You want us to continue a losing trend? You’re basically saying you support Day1 bandwagons on townies. So far you have provided zip evidence for you vote for me, much less info on the rest of the town.

On July 01 2012 23:47 Acrofales wrote:

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Regarding Katina. I feel Katina is a bit like Mattchew this game. Both are rather good players and neither have put any effort at all into playing. Both of them should be clearer reads when they start posting. Atm I'm null on Katina: she reads like someone who has put no effort at all into reading the thread, sheeped VE and went afk again. This could be scum, but could also be a lazy/busy townie who is putting no effort into the game and sheeps a veteran. Seems like a bad lynch candidate atm.

On July 02 2012 06:31 EchelonTee wrote:
Mattchew, adam, ve, katina; is the mK lynch good to you? Something feels a bit fishy; I need reassurance or a cold slap in the face. We narrowly have time for a mass switch; only other option I see as feasible and good is a BM lynch.

On July 03 2012 07:56 Twelve wrote:
I just honestly think im gonna get killed tonight because of how hard I was hounding BKE, who i still think is scum. NoSmurfsHere defends BKE multiple times, and ultimately is the one who started the foxtrotter bandwagon. His post seems EXTREMLY suspicious given what we know to be true now.

On July 03 2012 09:10 casualman wrote:
lynch drwiggles

On July 03 2012 11:33 casualman wrote:
guys lynch visceraeyes

On July 03 2012 11:52 casualman wrote:
you are just slipping incredibly much.

i don't have to defend myself because i'm obviously town.

On July 02 2012 06:57 Mandalor wrote:


Okay one more post I guess.
I don't understand his reasoning. It just looks like the desperate try to start a bandwagon. That's what looks fishy to me.
Plus the newbie-theory which would just open up another characteristic of mafia to act like.

As I said you're putting words in my mouth. You desperately try to make me look bad without hard evidence. People have called me out earlier and you just join in. No matter what happens tonight, I will remain on people's radar and you solidify that by inventing and implying stuff I never said.

On July 04 2012 18:19 Vivax wrote:
Lynch twelve or katina. I think Shiao has posted enough to be estimated better once the two of them flip.

Katina ignoring so many scummy players to suspect Adam is just ridiculous. I think I've found something to Adam's defense.

On July 04 2012 19:18 ShiaoPi wrote:
Dropping by before going out.

@NSH:
I'll explain my vote on hyaach again. I used the term "aggressive" on BM as in he is throwing around suspicions wildly with not much more than a hunch.
Now to hyaach's aggression, I was only asking him on his opinions/reads and he responds with a straight out "no, don't like you" and when other people also ask him he goes "why should I share a case?". It is just unfathomable to me why he does not want to share with town.
I also defended vivax since I know from experience that he might be an "easy" mislynch (did that already), so at least to me there is enough reason to defend him.

@Katina/Twelve:

Why do you want to lynch the useless troll? Won't give us anything besides flipping a coin on alignment.

On July 04 2012 22:09 Mandalor wrote:
I got my vote on either Katina or Twelve right now.

Katina pretty much just followed VE's thoughts on Day1, semi defended BM and now made a case of casualman who imo cannot be read and better be ignored for now.

Twelve. As MattChew pointed out earlier, he accused the two most popular lynch candidates without providing a basis for this. Just an hour after mK was modkilled and flipped green, he says how it was "a lurker lynch [he] really didn't agree with". How convenient to post that after the modkill and never mention mK before.

On July 05 2012 03:29 ghost_403 wrote:
I find the gap in him posting his Foxtrotter vote and him expalining his Foxtrotter vote... disconcerting. If missing the deadline really was his main concern there, why wouldn't you immediately post after the flip "Well, shit. I know him IRL, and he posted scummy so I voted for him, lol, my bad"? Instead, he waits for people to make a big deal about it. His actions there were of the "too scummy to be scum" variety, but maybe he's just bad scum?

That and all the stuff Acro said.

##vote twelve

I want to hear why he thinks we should be lynching casualman. His filter doesn't really give a good reason for it.

I want to hear Katina's thoughts on Twelve.

Also, where's Majujuju been? He dropped in, voted 12 and has been gone ever since.

On July 05 2012 09:29 austinmcc wrote:
Blech. Removing my vote from ET. If he gets replaced, I'm all for lynching whoever comes in. Sorry replacement guy!

Still can't reconcile 12's earlier nonsense with scum. Maybe it's a great tactic to get pushed aside and not be considered for a lynch, but if that was the plan it's failed miserably.

I assume people are gone and we can't get traction on another lynch, but I could vote ShiaoPi or Katina atm. ShiaoPi I mentioned before, it's an odd read mainly based on the fact that we haven't agreed on some of our reads this game.

Katina got some pressure early this cycle. It was her birthday, so to some extent the lack of filter is explained by that. When she returned, she addressed the pressure by getting active for a moment. After the pressure died down on her though, look at some of the posts from later in the day:

Just some very bland reasoning. Broad statements that look like they give reads, but they're kind of...airy? 12 has concisely explained himself and his actions (I disagree with her here). Vivax has been sincere, posted a decent amount, given opinions, and seems to be putting effort into scum hunting. This just feels...off. Like they're the read equivalents of someone trying to convince you they can communicate with the dead by throwing out really broad statements and letting your mind fill in the blanks for them.

Sorry Katina. While I appreciate your cookie, with ET out of the running for tonight my vote's going on you.

On July 05 2012 10:39 NoSmurfHere wrote:
like, who knows why she stepped up contribution. It could be because she's scum and got scared into it, or because she's town and she legitimately has time now.

However the content of her contributions is pretty useless. She wanted to lynch casualman and her thoughts on most of my reads were this:




I didn't clarify my reads on Maju/Adam but basically I lumped them together because they were two lurkers who I thought had opposite alignments.

as for the first two I thought both were scum at the time.

Ultimately she backed down from both ET and twelve. Understandable NOW in retrospect based on the vote switch, but honestly she didn't do any work in pushing her lynch nor did she do any work in stopping twelve'ET from being lynched. She only commented on them when she was forced to comment by other players.

Pretty sure she's scum for this because as town she fights to get her lynch of choice. I recall in Emergency she tunneled Blazinghand for hours because she basically knew him to be scum. She did similar things in Liar Game with Palmar and in countless other games where I've seen her be ignored by townies yet be completely 100% correct. Here her reads are being ignored because they're bad, and she's not pushing them either. We all know she's really good as town but she's not displaying this.

On July 05 2012 10:51 NoSmurfHere wrote:
yeah she's basically saying a whole bunch of stuff but then not advancing any opinions on anyone.

Since when have we known town Katina to have ignored 6 or 7 scummy players in the game? At the very least she will have acknowledged them or read them as scummy. She might be focused on one person but she isn't totally focused on that one person.

I remember in MTG she was sort of like this. She tunneled some townie endlessly for no reason even when everyone else considered that guy just to be playing somewhat badly. Her play is a bit different here (she asked me postgame how to improve and maybe that's why) but not particularly different.

If she steps up her game tomorrow then I'll gladly back off but her reads are too convenient for me to believe she is town.

On July 05 2012 01:29 Katina wrote:


I'm not ignoring them, I just don't think that ET or Twelve is Mafia. I admit they are scummy in some way or another but it's not strong enough to lynch them just yet.



Then we have on person narrowed down and can focus elsewhere. Even useless trolls can turn out to be Mafia.



I agree with VE's thoughts, yes. It was D1 and I had a town read on him and he's a good player. So of course I would be inclined to consider what he says and look at the person myself then come up with my conclusion. I semi defended BM because I wanted to see more from him. He's hard to read at first.

I was expressing my thoughts in my recent post. I didn't know that posting on a lurker (along with several others that aren't lurkers was scummy....

On July 05 2012 11:10 austinmcc wrote:
Right. But then



You had him town. Then I got a cookie, and it looked like you were going to be suspicious of ET if he didn't 'splain himself.

On July 05 2012 11:13 NoSmurfHere wrote:
You had reads but didn't explain them.

If you don't explain why you have reads on the main candidates then you can't expect to actually contribute, right? Upon rereading your filter I've noticed that some of the things I've said are wrong. I don't think Mandalor is scum given that he was one of the only players Adam seriously attacked. It could have been an early distancing attempt but I find that a bit unlikely given that Adam gave some fairly strong reasoning for it.

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt for now. Why do you think ShiaoPi is town?

On July 05 2012 20:03 Vivax wrote:
Ok, so twelve considered his life to be more valuable than that of somebody he believed to be town.

This is arguably not pro-town, but a lot of townies might have done the same in his spot.

Katina, can you post a list of your opinions regarding all players?
Needless to say I might use it against you, it really depends on what you write there.
You don't need to give long explanations, just guess the players' alignment.

On July 05 2012 23:12 ghost_403 wrote:
Hey Kat, what do you think about Maju?

On July 06 2012 02:03 MajuGarzett wrote:
Why do people suddenly want to kill me? How does thinking that my response to one question is insufficient supersede the last 2 days of discussion on 12, Katina, etc.

On July 06 2012 16:21 Hyaach wrote:
i want to lynch katina. the pickup in activity just seem to convienent. same as the reads his giving out. almost null people or just general disruption to town. his case are also weak and his not pushing for any. just post to slip by again is not good in my opinion.

On July 07 2012 10:35 Hyaach wrote:
why would i trade myself for you? if anything lynching scum today or mislynch townie would still tesult in 2 kp at night. if i were scum and bke was my scum buddy. i have zero reason to save his ass and pu him and i out to dry next day

On July 07 2012 10:36 NoSmurfHere wrote:
Hahaha so in light of there being a claimed red check on katina I go from being a townread for Katina to being the person who framed her.

Hahahaha this is priceless.

You'd think that if I were sitting on a throne and waving town around I'd have gotten my choice of lynch (you or ShiaoPi) yesterday.

On July 07 2012 10:38 Hyaach wrote:
show me a case where you actively push it like your town meta. you have been giving convient reads and refuse to take a stanve until someone else does

On July 07 2012 10:52 Hyaach wrote:
u defend bm day one. added post after mkmk lyncht make it seem like you care. add on cases where the ebtire towns are divides in half. bke is my green check too. makes me suspect u even nore. cman is a troll and i dont know what to make of mandanlor and myself? lol.

On July 07 2012 10:52 NoSmurfHere wrote:
So katina, is Hyaach lying, or were you framed, or both?

Your story is kinda weird. If you were framed it doesn't necessarily mean Hyaach is lying. So if you claim to be framed why is your instant conclusion that Hyaach is a liar?

I don't see the town motivation behind immediately claiming Hyaach is a liar without looking at the facts first. I had to actually go back to the OP and see if there were millers (there aren't) and to see how framers worked. (which Wiggles just clarified)

So instead of looking over the facts, your instant conclusion is that Hyaach is lying. You say he has to be lying, without even considering for a moment the motivation behind the claim. What motivation would a scum Hyaach have to single YOU out, of all players? The only plausible explanation for that is you believe all three of BKE, Twelve, and Hyaach to be scum...which honestly, I find to be absurd, and you haven't pushed this notion anyway. Are you of that opinion?

Thinking about it rationally, the only reason a scum would fakeclaim DT in this position is to save both BKE and Twelve, but then they would draw so much attention to themselves when their target flipped town that it would be simpler to paint one of BKE/Twelve as town and bus the hell out of the other. In fact it would be far more effective, even.

Then the second part of your little tirade kicks in. If you got framed, why is it necessitated that Hyaach is lying? If you're of the opinion that you got framed then you should believe Hyaach's claim.

Instead it seems like you've just started panicking and now all you can do is sling mud at the situation to try and make it go away.

On July 07 2012 11:01 NoSmurfHere wrote:


You never answered why you completely ignore grush the troll but not casualman the troll.

What separates the trolls?

On July 07 2012 11:11 NoSmurfHere wrote:


So with one vote on you and me backed off (because there was literally no chance I would get you lynched today) you consider yourself "in the spotlight?"

In addition, if his motivation is to go after a townie in the spotlight (as scum) what happens when you flip town? He dies, right? What kind of shitty motivation for scum is that? He trades you, who have so far been pretty irrelevant in the matters for town, for himself. That's essentially like town losing four players all at once (when comparing team sizes)

Why do you have a town read on Twelve? What makes him town? What makes BKE scum?

If you're actually looking at the facts, why is it that you still haven't figured out which stance you want to take?

On July 07 2012 11:12 NoSmurfHere wrote:


Really? Which posts?

So casualman is scum because he's bad? Since when has this been a criterion for lynching scum?

On July 07 2012 11:31 NoSmurfHere wrote:
EBWODP



So...basically exactly what you've been doing all game?

e: Good for you Maju, caught my point without me explicitly having to yell it aloud.

On July 06 2012 23:03 Hyaach wrote:
Acro, put it in katina. believe me.

On July 07 2012 12:20 NoSmurfHere wrote:
I have a homework deadline at midnight (it's 8:15 here right now) but as soon as I'm done and back I'm going to consolidate my thoughts on Katina and Twelve.

If we don't lynch Katina we lynch Twelve. The only reason we wouldn't lynch Katina is if we think she might've been framed. However, this DT claim is almost certainly legitimate and I'm of the opinion that we shouldn't screw ourselves out of a correct (IMO) lynch by wondering whether she was framed or not. Assuming the claim is legitimate then both BKE and Hyaach are definitely town (2 godfathers in the game would be pretty unprecedented, bastard almost) and as of now I see no reason to doubt the claim.