EPTEmergency Mini Mafia! - Page 5
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Artanis[Xp]
Netherlands12968 Posts
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Artanis[Xp]
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Artanis[Xp]
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##Vote: Navillus | ||
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Artanis[Xp]
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Artanis[Xp]
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On June 17 2012 12:49 Snarfs wrote: Wait what? Ghost, are you serious? We were at MYLO yesterday and you had a red check on Palmar and you didn't even push for his lynch? Like, at all? You're saying that you would have rather played a hunch that zelblade was mafia because you were "greedy" and would have cost us the game were it not for a modkill... rather than either claim or push a Palmar lynch? Or push for a no lynch to get another check off? There's no way this claim is real, right? Like, no real detective would not claim at MYLO... or push their red check.. or push for a no lynch... There's no friggen way. If ghost is town after these shenanigans I will definitely eat blazinghand's hat. I can understand it to some degree. If he claims at that moment, there's a chance people won't believe him and that it's a mafia ploy to get people to not vote him, and as soon as he claims every night he'll either get roleblocked or he'll just get killed by mafia depending on if they still have their roleblocker. "Playing greedy" seems to be something town is doing a lot. See katina; we asked the remaining JK to claim but she didn't. I also don't think mafia would claim DT with the amount of blues that have died already. It just seems unlikely. @Artanis: On Navillus: I don't see how he could be a better lynch than ghost now. I definitely think that his vote on Hyaach while FOSing MrZentor was an awkward move, but I've seen townies do that many times as well. And I did notice that he backed off Palmar as you pointed out, but I would have to. Palmar is a great asset to towns and if it had turned out that he was a townie replacing in he no doubt would have been extremely helpful. I think that his vote on furerkip was genuine as there was no other wagon at the time. He only moved his vote after it was becoming apparent that furer was not going to be lynched (blazinghand and VE had both unvoted furer already). It's not specifically one of these individual points that points me to Navillus, it's the combination of everything altogether that makes me believe he's scum. The lurking while telling other people not to lurk, the vote pattern, everything just smells like scum to me. It's part logic and part gut. Need I remind you of Shraft who also was suspicious of Navillus? Every vote so far has been based on bad claims (Pandain, Hyaach, Blazinghand) and now you want to do it again? Have you learned nothing from the past few claims? When it's too strange to be scum, it probably isn't scum. What interests me more than your vote on Navillus though, is that ghost practically just claimed scum and you've already almost dismissed the possibility that he's fake claiming. I'm curious how you can be so trusting of his claim? You say that you don't think this is something he would do as mafia, yet when I looked through his history previously the only scum game of his I found was Werewolves which was both a PM game and almost 4 months ago. The timing of his claim makes no sense from a town player's point of view, especially if he had a red check on Palmar going into day 4 as he claims. I'm really curious how you could justify a town detective not claiming/pushing a red check/pushing for a no lynch at mylo when there's a chance we're about to lose the game?? And then so quickly accept the explanation that he was just getting "greedy"... at MYLO... after not lynching scum for 3 days... he got greedy... You say he claimed scum WAAAAAAAAY too easily for my taste. I accept the explanation because I don't think Mafia would make such a claim with this kind of explanation. It doesn't make sense. My gut says to trust the claim, and if his claim is correct I'm talking to a mafia anyway so I'm not too worried about how you perceive me. And how are you so sure that MrZentor is town? The guy is capable of doing proper analysis as he's shown in the past, yet has contributed little but one-liners and has been on the wrong side of every lynch with very little reasoning. I have no clue whether he's town or mafia, yet you waltz in here at LYLO and proclaim him town and you and ghost are suddenly on the same side of a Navillus lynch and I'm definitely having second thoughts about my town read on you. Because of how he's played the game. All I can say is read his post history and tell me you don't get a feeling that he's town. I just can't imagine a mafia playing the way he played. Mafia wants to look town, he's made no effort to do that. And once again, I'm not too bothered by you not having a town read on me anymore since you're probably scum and all. | ||
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Artanis[Xp]
Netherlands12968 Posts
On June 17 2012 15:45 Navillus wrote: Artanis could you clarify what things you're saying are scummy here and how they're scummy, because with a lot of the stuff on that list I don't see why it would make me scum, but on the stuff at the bottom. First on Furer yes my opinion changed, first he looked like an aggressive newbie townie to me so I didn't want to jump on him immediately, then I wanted a lynch when I thought that he was just lurking and avoiding posting when there might be heat on him, at the time that I posted that I didn't think it had anything to do with alignment he had already missed a deadline (maybe two) I posted that because it seemed like he had totally peaced out of the game (which guess what? he had...) and I didn't and still don't see how someone leaving a game after like one day indicates alignment at all, I've seen more towns do it than scum. On MrZ I FoSed him because he was suspicious and voted hyaach to pressure him like I said several days ago, on Pandain... ok so that's just a reason that I still could be scum despite going against that lynch, makes sense, isn't a positive reason I'm scum. Aaaand lastly and this ones big as you mention it a number of times in your list as well, I lurk. Yes I've been very lurky, yes that's bad and I shouldn't have, but your letting that be much too large a factor in your case when we're at mylo and we can't afford to make a mistake because I've been lurky. Lurking was bad but it also in no way points to me being scum, check my meta, seriously, this in no way points to me being scum. And I will say that I still talk about MrZ's lurking for example because while he may have more posts than me you can't seriously look at both of our filters and think he's said more than I have, there's a difference between lurking and making posts just to have a post count without saying anything and not posting much but actually saying things in your posts, both are bad but the first is absolutely scummier. Sure, I'll humor you. In this post, you basically said "okay, I did this and this and this and it all looks scummy but these guys are scummier!" And I'll tell you "no, Navillus, that is not true. You are the scummiest candidate here." I made a list of points to basically illustrate all you've said this game and any points you've made, not all of them are supposed to point to you being mafia, it's just a summary list. You went offtopic with Pandain when you saw the chance despite that you should know better, believed BH's claim for a weird reason, happened to stop hammering on Palmar once Furer got replaced whom you thought was mafia for being inactive? That was your reason for voting him, yet then you come up later saying I don't think his disappearing from the game really has anything to do with alignment So then why vote for him saying he was inactive? It makes NO sense whatsoever. You also said you still had to look after me then never bothered to before the deadline, probably because you thought you already won. Shame to say, you didn't. | ||
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Artanis[Xp]
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On June 17 2012 13:05 MrZentor wrote: See ghost, if I were mafia, I'd be making analyses on random people right now to convince you I was town. At any rate, I don't see the point of analysis at this point. I know what I'm going to do, and nobody currently is doing anything that I disagree with terribly. We see if ghost can explain his weird claim. We kill either him or Nav tomorrow depending on his response. Then the day after that we kill the other scum.  Just to pressure ghost into a response. ##Vote ghost_403 MrZentor, don't you think it's weird that Ghost got all these votes so quickly after claiming? Basically, it means one of two things. Either A) You think I'm scum too or B) You think there's some mind games going on and Mafia are voting for their own player to try and win on the last day of LYLO. Now I don't think A) is very likely, and I don't think you're scum. I must say that I do have slight doubts regarding B), but at this point I find it too farfetched. Either way, I'm quite sure Navillus is scum. If you don't feel sure about Ghost I would urge you to vote Navillus and we can decide on Ghost vs Snarfs on the next day, though I'm quite sure Snarfs is the second scum at this point. | ||
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Artanis[Xp]
Netherlands12968 Posts
On June 18 2012 01:38 Snarfs wrote: It's not necessarily that he didn't claim. He didn't even push for a no lynch or push someone he claims to have had a red check on when we had to lynch scum or lose. Katina wasn't at MYLO with a red check on mafia while still voting another target... To clarify, you believe it's more unlikely that someone would fake-claim a blue when there's little chance of there being any more blues in the game than actually be a blue? Because I think that a time when noone thinks there are any blues left would be a perfect time to fake a claim. The odds of being counterclaimed have already decreased drastically and ghost has already shown us that he was considering the possibility of a counterclaim. He pushed someone he thought was red. Just because you're a DT doesn't mean you should only go after your checks. He thought zelblade was red and there was plenty of evidence to suggest as such. And I don't think a blue fakeclaim at this point would be good given that there wasn't that much suspicion on Ghost and given the fact that we've lynched everyone that claimed blue this game. If I was mafia and I took a look at the lynching history, I wouldn't say "hey no one lynches blues, let's claim blue!", I'd think "they're lynching all blues, let's not claim anything dumb". This makes me believe Ghost's claim is probably legit. I'm still torn between whether you or Navillus is the last scum. I agree that I get a scummy vibe from him, but your trusting of ghost's claim combined with your reasoning for believing MrZentor is town have me confused. If I had to decide in the next 10 minutes I'd go with Navillus as it makes more sense over the entire game, but I don't. Artanis, I don't think I need to remind you that of those 3 claims, 2 of them were faked. I'm not sure what you're trying to imply by asking me if I've learned nothing. I look at each claim and the circumstances surrounding it separate from the other. What I'm saying is that fakeclaims have tended not to work out for those people, therefore fakeclaiming seems to be a bad idea in this enviorment. Call it WIFOM if you must, but I don't think Mafia would fakeclaim, especially when there wasn't really much pressure on Ghost to begin with. It'd make more sense for Navillus to claim if anyone. I'm still trying to wrap my head around a scenario where a detective doesn't either push a red check or push for a no lynch at MYLO and I still think the odds of someone doing that are extremely low. And what do you mean it makes no sense for mafia? All he needs to do is ensure that he doesn't get lynched today or tomorrow and they've got the game won. It makes perfect sense to claim a blue role that is unverifiable. Hell, I've seen it done in newbie games in this exact scenario! I'll try and find the game I'm thinking of. We have lynched every claimed blue so far. Mafia does not want to die. I thus find it unlikely mafia would claim blue. I don't think you can find a newbie game where three of four lynches have been people that claimed blue. The enviorment makes it so that I don't think a fakeclaim is logical to do as mafia. If Ghost was scum, it wasn't a neccesary action to do. I hadn't posted any suspicion on him, only on Navillus, and this is something that would actually potentially _draw_ suspicion on him. That coupled with the fact that Ghost instantly got votes against him from at least one mafia since I know I'm not scum leads me to believe he is in fact speaking the truth. I'm not even sure what to say to this. You're basically giving mafia in every game you play a free pass to not even attempt to contribute? Perhaps it's bad because you want to policy lynch people that do, but the fact of the matter is I don't think he's scum and it's fairly obvious to me. That he played anti town does not mean that he rolled scum. I do not believe he rolled scum so I do not want to lynch him, ESPECIALLY at lylo. | ||
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Artanis[Xp]
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Artanis[Xp]
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I don't think Mafia is trying to mindgame us. Everything to me points to a Navillus/Snarfs team, and I do hope you feel the same way. Go back on histories if you must, or my post summarizing how people have behaved where I summarize people's filters. The fact that three people are voting for Ghost and I'm not one of them makes it clear to me that it has to be Navillus/Snarfs unless Mafia are pulling a big one here. Given how easily they could've portrayed you as scum (and Snarfs still tried) I hope you can see that it's them. | ||
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Artanis[Xp]
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Artanis[Xp]
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Why does that make you think I'm mafia, Zentor? | ||
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