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On June 15 2012 13:14 Ace wrote: Day 2talismania, Gun Enforcement Agent (Scum) has been shot+ Show Spoiler [Role] +
Welcome to Bang Bang Mafia 2!
You are the Gun Enforcement Agent!
As a government agent you are in the business of enforcing the law - your own! You are aligned with Scum and don't give a shit what the USA thinks of gun control. Your bosses won't allow you to carry a gun but you can steal a gun from any player in the game and use it any following day. Whether you are successful or not the player will be alerted that a theft occurred (or failed). You can do this ONCE per game.
You win by outnumbering the Town at any point during the Day. Good luck!
layabout replaces wherebugsgo
Well who wants to believe rol now lol
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Also great call soft, now we can get some leads off this! I am headed to bed after this good news, will re-read his filter tomorrow.
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On June 15 2012 23:16 Toadesstern wrote:
Well talis flipped mafia. I'm still a normal VT, what Supersoft did was still retarded, Supersoft still has not answered a single question about "why" he did that. Not a single one and I asked him about 3 times. Marv asked him about 3 times as well. He just does what he does. He hit a mafia so I guess he's just a jerk doing whatever he wants without explaining a thing.
Isn't this explaining why
On June 15 2012 18:02 supersoft wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2012 17:34 Dirkzor wrote:
Good aim Supersoft but I dislike your method. Had you not hit a red you would have thrown this town into chaos. yeah i was a little short on time when I suddenly realized, that there is something wrong with payl and zentor as lynches. The first thing I did last night was filtering Zentor and I got a townread on him. After that I filtered payl and I thought he might be blue. like 40/60 (rather scum but still no good lynch + no information) Then I tried to stop the ongoing preparations to shoot one of them. Because the day would have been wasted. I refiltered everyone and catched kita and talismania. Toads reaction to this, whom I suspected before, supported my talismaniaread and abandoned my kitaread. Toad made the "mistake" to point me towards talismanis play in PYPoison. His following suggestion to shoot zentor instead of payl was the point when I realized that both, toad and talismani offered to shoot payl, but prefered to shoot zentor. What got me to the point that payl has to be scum, too. At this point of time it didn't really matter to me anymore so I picked my strongest scumread, talismani and shot him. The uncertain component in my plan really was RoL who could have been scum. Now he's like onfirmed town. Also exWBG is still someone who might be scum.
Not saying I agree with how he went about it, or even all the logic but you can't deny the results and it as an answer to why he did it.
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Bah just lost my post
Any way, Soft is also confirmed as their is no way that was a bus. First it confirms ROL (He can't be SK as SK has been shooting, and ROL had no gun, he cant be scum as they wouldn't have stolen a gun from themselves) It also ruins Mafia's biggest asset, A goon who can shoot. Guys this is incredibly powerful, no one knew this could even happen!
It gave mafia t2o great advantages, one if the GF was ever killed this guy wouldn't have been caught or it would have been very difficult b/c he could shoot to confirm himself.
Second it gave the mafia 3 consecutive pays of killing making a LYLO situation occur far far ahead of time than town realized.
The GF's shooting power is balanced by him having to wait a day to fire again so if his first shot is too bad he can be killed before doing it again, now with Tals having a shot GF can fire, Talis Fire then GF again. that is 3 day kills and 6 night kills for a total of 9 KP with absolutely 0 of it being from town. OUCH! That moved LYLO much closer!
So no more talk about their alignments, sure Soft might have not gone about it the best way but there is no way he can be a suspect at this point. This also goes to show why Gonzaw thought Scum would hit Soft so early, maybe he can't argue his points the best but his ability to shoot red is undeniable.
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Seeing how valuable Talis was I can absolutely see him trying to bus someone, little surprised he kept it up after he was dead unless he thought maybe the delay meant maybe he wasn't shot and since he did have a gun he would confirm himself by shooting soft.
I don't think his arguments against Z or I should be taken as clearing us.
From my point of view knowing I am town (hopefully I am believed) if it was a bus of a mafia he would certainly want the towny to do the shooting since otherwise they wouldn't be able to. I also think he was wanting to out an additional towneys who hadn't claimed yet (me) by causing the shot. Does this mean Zentor was the sacrafice, well since he wasn't pushing for it the other way around we can conclude if he is was the sacrifice he isn't a goon with a gun. I think Zentor should be the one to shoot tomorrow. We can discuss the target but I think he makes a great candidate for the actual shooting.
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On June 16 2012 01:17 MrZentor wrote:Well, the first 3 pages of Toad's filter is him talking about the setup and a bunch of stuff that isn't scum hunting. One thing I found that seems especially scummy is his response to RoL trying to shoot him. Look at it from a town perspective: RoL claimed to not have a gun. He tries to shoot you. If he lied about his gun and actually ends up shooting you, he's basically confirmed scum. If he actually doesn't have a gun like he claimed, nothing happens. It's a win win, but look at Toad's response. Show nested quote +On June 13 2012 06:10 Toadesstern wrote:
are you crazy, wtf is wrong with you Show nested quote +On June 13 2012 06:11 Toadesstern wrote:
ooh. holy crap don't scare me like that... This is the response I'd expect from scum. They're so afraid of getting killed, especially first day, that they overreact and completely disregard all past information. And recently, Toad claimed he couldn't read Talis, which is basically the easiest thing for scum to do. (and he tried to kill me) 
I don't find that scummy at all. A towny would forget that he said didn't have a gun, you notice when we remind hi mthat he is showing he can't shoot we get the final response. Scum on the other hand knows he doesn't haven't a gun since they took it, so I would think scum would definitely remember that fact since they took the gun from him as part of their plan. Scum would know he wasn't lieing about the gun.
Everyone talked about setup and plans to begin with, I don't see either being evidence of scumminess from Toad.
See this plan here:
What about shooting payle instead of gonzaw?
If he's truely a DT I can live with him being alive and mafia can't because they don't want him to get more checks because the moment we see his flip we know wether or not we can trust him.
If he's mafia and survives n1 we shoot him tomorrow?
That really strikes me as a town move. It was a great plan and I think the one we should have done. I don't see the Mafia (knowing gonzaw really is the DT) trying to push us to save him and get more checks in before he dies. They knew soft was town at that point as well so they have a good idea that he is getting legit checks, so even a day 2 kill means we get more info from him. Maybe he was mafia trying to get town cred but I think that argument is very very unlikely.
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On June 16 2012 01:40 marvellosity wrote:rastaban, mine was more succinct 
HAHA, between you and layabout I feel all my words were redundant.
Scum trying to use lots of words to make it seem like they are participating.... hmmm you be the judge 
While I feel it is likely Zentor could be scum, I don't see anyway at all he is the GF, do you agree with that? I think if he shoots it would be enough to clear him, and if he can't then we kill him. he has said he would be willing to shoot so I think we shoudl give him the chance to prove it.
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On June 15 2012 08:18 talismania wrote:
Can we organize a vote or something? The way this is going is silly. One person brings up a name, then two pages later it's someone else, then two pages later its someone else, then two pages later it's back to the first person. Everyone who's around votes for who they want shot and who they want to take the shot, then we act.
My vote is still for rastaban to shoot zentor.
On June 15 2012 08:43 talismania wrote:
Not really but I'd rather shoot zentor.
On June 15 2012 09:26 talismania wrote:
fucking ridiculous game setup lol. In case I'm really dead,
SK: you should be helping out town now, if you've done the math on your wincon correctly. I'm still certain zentor is scum. Stab him since you're probably going to let supersoft live.
Town: GF will be trying to shoot D4. In fact probably D2 and D4 which may explain supersoft. Go to a voting system immediately. You can't just all bully each other.
Mafia: you all did a great job making this thread a spammy shitfest.
My top three mafia picks: zentor, rastaban of the semi-active active ones and two others I guess from the inactive pool.
3 times he pushes for Zentor. Now remember Tali had a great role as one of the mafia with a gun. So he really could have shot, and would have done so if he really was forced to. He was willing to shoot Zentor. Maybe it was a bus, but Mafia would never have bussed their GF. GF is the best role they have and he dies then only people who can't shoot are left. I don't see any way Talis would push Zenor if Zentor was the GF.
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it isn't 100%, but what is? I can see a slim chance with some convoluted schemes, but it is so small that I think if he can shoot we at least wait till later to re-address if he is mafia when we have more of them shot.
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On June 16 2012 03:38 Toadesstern wrote:Show nested quote +On June 16 2012 03:27 MrZentor wrote:
The only reason you'd do that as mafia is if you knew I were a blue, but I'm not.
The only reason you'd do that as town is if you were confident that I was scum and didn't have a gun. I'm obviously not the godfather as rastaban posted, so you're betting your life on having the correct read on me. -.-
I hate to sound fickle, but I'd rather shoot Payl. :/ You shoot me or you're dead. It's simple as that. I posted this one: Show nested quote +On June 16 2012 02:47 Toadesstern wrote:What happened yesterday: - Supersoft asks me what I think about Talis
- I say he is suspicious and scummy
- Supersoft quotes a post from PYP that was done PREGAME, aka before alignments were out
- I tell him "dude, Talis is super scummy but that is the only post in talis filter that isn't scummy because it's a PREgame post, aka it's not alignment indicating because he didn't even have an alignment back then. You can't take that as a reason to consider him scummy although he is scummy for every other post in his filter"
- Supersoft says we should not lynch Zentor / Payl because I am GF bussing Payl and Talis, which apparently makes Payl an incredible bad target for whatever reason and therefore he shoots Talis instead of Payl or me
- I am therefore mafia because I agreed with his read on Talis, just not with his reasoning because he quoted a pregame post and because I am bussing Payl.
Am I really the only one who fails to understand the logic here? Also so far noone (except for Zentor who did the most ridiculous "case" I've ever seen) explained why I am mafia. Well and Supersoft said I am GF because I think Talis and Payl are mafia, because that's clearly the reasonable explanation here. and people ignore it because they think that reasoning makes sense. If that's what people think I don't care about it because the only way to show people how retarded they are is to shove them my green head into their face. You just said I am mafia and although you never mentioned it, it looked like I'm your best read so far and yet you're willing to shoot payl instead, the guy I am pushing while you are convinced that I am mafia. You want to shoot payle instead, the guy that Supersoft (read: the guy who shot mafia yesterday) considered to be a bad target and after telling everyone and their mother to shoot payl he suddenly realized shooting him was incredible bad (aka: he thought he's town) and therefore shot talis instead. And you tell me you'd rather shoot payl than me?
What do you care who he shoots then, you are not making any sense. If he shoots you and you flip green, is he suddenly innocent? If you are so sure he is red then shoot him and let the blame fall on you, the fact that you want to give him a chance to shoot mean you think he might not be red. I think think there is a high chance he is red but very low that he is GF, so if he shoots at all he is clear for now in my book. If he really can shoot I would much rather him shoot someone who is scum instead of you who ( unlike marv ) I think is probably town. I want him to Shoot Payl or Cephiro that would make me happy, as it clears his name. Now if he can't shoot then yeah, toad go ahead and kill him but trying to tell him to shoot you if he can gets us no where as it is no different than him shooting someone else and if he can shoot we just get a dead townie.
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On June 16 2012 06:20 layabout wrote:
RoL are you around?
Have you anything to say about Wiggle's case against you?
I would love to hear his thought son the situation but any case against ROL is absurd right now, he is obviously town at this point.
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On June 16 2012 12:43 kitaman27 wrote:
Talismania was going to be my shot yesterday! supersoft stealing my glory <3
RoL's claim that his gun was returned after the death of talismania doesn't seem very consistant with the description of the role. Are you lying to us again or is the description of the role missing details? While there are others that should be removed first, this should be cleared up.
I had a dream toad is scum. My dreams don't lie to me (sometimes). Plus I dislike how he over states his suspicion of talismania.
I might try to put a case together for bugs/layabout tomorrow.
Reading through Meapak's posts, I don't get the impression that he has a gun. Whenever a target is brought up, he is always directing other players to shoot. It's possible he is blue, but I dislike the interference that he pushed when talismania's name was brought up yesterday. Furthermore, he is someone who should be held accountable for the dt snipe. In the previous game, he was crushed by the vig mislynch, but this game, it hardly appears to bother him at all.
Need to read up further on the payl/zentor situation.
Can I make a request that we don't shoot until I have time to make a post tomorrow? Thanks!
Why would ROL lie about getting his gun back, I can't even imagine a case where that would be useful for scum or sk. He told us from the beging his pm said it was temporary in some way. Why are you trying to cast suspicion on someone confirmed at this point. If you can come up with a way he is actually scum I would love to hear it.
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On June 16 2012 12:43 kitaman27 wrote:
Talismania was going to be my shot yesterday! supersoft stealing my glory <3
RoL's claim that his gun was returned after the death of talismania doesn't seem very consistant with the description of the role. Are you lying to us again or is the description of the role missing details? While there are others that should be removed first, this should be cleared up.
I had a dream toad is scum. My dreams don't lie to me (sometimes). Plus I dislike how he over states his suspicion of talismania.
I might try to put a case together for bugs/layabout tomorrow.
Reading through Meapak's posts, I don't get the impression that he has a gun. Whenever a target is brought up, he is always directing other players to shoot. It's possible he is blue, but I dislike the interference that he pushed when talismania's name was brought up yesterday. Furthermore, he is someone who should be held accountable for the dt snipe. In the previous game, he was crushed by the vig mislynch, but this game, it hardly appears to bother him at all.
Need to read up further on the payl/zentor situation.
Can I make a request that we don't shoot until I have time to make a post tomorrow? Thanks!
Why hold MZ instead of marv accountable? Not saying we shouldn't but why are you singling out MZ over any of the others?
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MZ your an idiot I told everyone soft and ROL were confirmed. There was 0 way either was scum, MZ has to die for that.
As for sk, mafia could have shot him last night o someone was protected, but just in case we should kill MZ b/c he could have not fired last nighyand took his shot today. We will need to see if anyone claims to have been protected.
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If heirs green he has to be vt right, otherwise he would have been blue or red, that is how I took it.
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So how do we proceed from here? We just lost 24 hours of discussion, and while I prefer to discuss in the day it doesn't look like we will get that option.
Do we shoot MZ? I feel like we kind of have to, if we don't he gets to shoot again the next day and we will end up right here again. As someone said maybe he is a traitor, at this point that fits, I really want to shoot him for what he did but maybe I am not thinking clearly, and this isn't the best option.
Ok theory time, I almost mentioned it before but here goes... I think the mafia might not have a gf. Hear me out on this, with gf and the gun scum we already killed they could have locked down 3whole days of discussion like he just did here. And net up to 9 town kills with 0 town kp. That seems a tad over powered.... So what if instead there is no gf, but they do have day kp and the gf role was there so we know some mafia have kp. Maybe there's a traitor to make up for it,or maybe more than one mafia has a gun.
Regardless I want to see MZ dead regardless... Just wakingp so I will try and do some actual analysis later.
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On June 16 2012 22:02 layabout wrote:
Just because the shot will not happen today doesn't mean we can't discuss and decide what it is. We could even decide a shot and then take it at the very start of the day (so we would effectively be in the same place we would have been if MZ hadn't shot but minus 1 townie.)
We have to shoot MZ.
-3 if both night kills go off...
Also to the sk just a heads up while people have said that in the case of all Mafia vs an sk, sk wins bc he can shoot the, but they can't shoot him, as you may have realized this isnt the case as long as they have their rb they can block your bulletproof and shoot you in the night so you will want to kill the rb before you are safe vs them.
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Yeah and unless someone claims to have been protected I think mafia hit the sk last night which is why there was only 1 hit I wonder if they will kill him tonight...
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YAY!!!!! Thanks ROL for the win, So glad I saved you N0
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It was asked and answered earlier, roleblock does not stop sk kp, so he could still shoot.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://www.generalpatton.org/news/newsimages/PattonPistol+02.jpg)
