Magic: The Gathering Mini Mafia

On May 21 2012 05:27 wherebugsgo wrote:
Whether or not advice is good has nothing to do with the alignment of a player, just the same as making a plan, regardless of how good it is, is generally not indicative of alignment.

If the advice makes sense, follow it. If not, don't. The question of "is this guy scum" has nothing to do with that.

On May 21 2012 05:59 Nova_Terra wrote:

I never said that it has anything to do with indicacating the alignment of the player,i said that general advice seems to be contributing but isnt really. and that its just as likely mister helpful is scum, etc.

On May 22 2012 02:46 marvellosity wrote:
I don't think I'd agree to a Nova lynch unless something very particular came up. Atm he's playing to his not-very-useful town meta rather than his post-extensively scum meta

On May 22 2012 21:30 marvellosity wrote:
Why? Because useless townies are useless and make easy lynch bait. Ideally I'd want someone to shoot Nova tonight.

On May 23 2012 06:27 VisceraEyes wrote:


1) I've already stated. He was using contradictory logic to point a finger at you yesterday - saying you were scummy for giving advice while giving advice himself. His interaction with Katina was especially scummy in my opinion, not knowing or caring who was voting for him. Like, imagine it from a scum perspective. You're not the leading candidate, and it's minutes from a deadline, are you going to know or care who is voting for you? No man, you're going to know every single person who's on the actual lynch wagon though by my estimation. The fact that he didn't realize that Katina was the very second person to vote for him is suspicious as hell to me, taken with everything else.

2) Mattchew, Tunkeg AND Katina have all given decent reasoning for their suspicions (by my estimation). Mattchew's self-imposed (I'm assuming) restriction, while not the clearest at times, at least serves to let his reads be known. Katina, while not being the most super active, has at least been trying to find out peoples' motivations and provided reasoning for her vote.

3) I'm actually semi-okay with a Mouldy lynch aside from the fact that you prefer it to Nova. Nova's on it too. I don't like that. Aside from that, I have no qualms with a Mouldy lynch. The thing is though, my vote isn't integral for a Mouldy lynch, and if it became a situation where it was, I would switch to Mouldy just to make a lynch happen. But as it stands, I've got a healthy counter-wagon going on one of my scum candidates and I think my vote is more useful over here.

On May 23 2012 06:42 HiroPro wrote:
Jeb looks to have left the thread. He's a scummy quitter. If you honestly think he's town, then lololol.

And why do you think he's scum, but don't want to vote for him, VE?

And what the heck is VCA.

On May 23 2012 06:53 Navillus wrote:


Vote count analysis

And VE I see what you're saying and it is possible to respond like that as town but in my experience just giving up with no unhappiness or anything about getting lynched and no real attempts to stop the lynch or push someone else is not something townies do often, as scum it's easy to get oneself thinking "oh they got me, there's no way I can move this wagon because I'm scum and they know it" As town you know that you're town and usually would try to show others.

Also while I still think NT is probably town, rereading him and looking at recent posts one unsettling trend is his constantly talking about his own meta and how he's matching it, I haven't seen many town who pay so much attention to their own meta, usually as town one would just think I'm playing town, it's gonna match my town meta. Scum have to pay more attention because their behavior is going to change and they have to make an effort to keep it as much the same as they can. Frankly once it's clear that he's paying so much attention to his meta, meta arguments that would point to him being town are pretty much useless since he's obviously making a real effort to keep with his town meta.

On May 24 2012 07:01 VisceraEyes wrote:
Okay, I'm going to go with Zealos because he had concluded that he thought Jeb was likely town, yet thought he was a good lynch

On May 24 2012 07:23 VisceraEyes wrote:


I'm not surprised.

So are you still down with killing one of Zealos/Tunkeg?

##Vote: Zealos

I prefer Zealos myself, for the reasons I've stated. I have a sneaking suspicion however that you prefer Tunkeg, am I right?

On May 24 2012 12:35 VisceraEyes wrote:
wherebugsgo

I realized after my back and forth with Bugs and Hiro that I'm allowing my emotions to rule the way I look at the game. As a result, I've gone back to try and objectively look at the people I'm suspicious of. But as soon as I opened up wherebugsgo and started reading his filter, I realized that this post would ultimately be about wherebugsgo (more specifically, about his first post).

I took a look at his advice post. I have to say, I'm a little disturbed with what I saw. Generally I overlook posts like this when they come from veteran players, mainly because it's typically common sense stuff that I at least am already aware of and have read several times every game. So, admittedly, when I was defending Bugs for posting this initially, I was doing so having not fully read the actual post. That being said, all in all none of what he gives is TERRIBLE advice (in general) but I have a couple of problems with some of his advice.

5. Medics/JK: don't bluehunt, just protect the most sensible townies.

At first, I thought this sounded pretty good, but then I thought about the source: who is likely to be the most "sensible townie" at the end of the day? I'll give you a hint - it's an anagram of George W Bush. Regardless of alignment, wherebugsgo is going to be playing like a vanilla townie. Why? Because as a town blue-role, that's the most successful way to play. As scum, that's the most successful way to play. As any role imaginable, that's the most successful way to play. wherebugsgo is a very crafty individual, and so to me #5 actually reads something like "don't bluehunt, just protect me" based on the knowledge I have of wherebugsgo's typical play. If he had said this at the end of the day, I wouldn't have blinked...but saying it at the beginning of the day, planting the notion right at the outset of the game comes across as playing with an agenda.

6. Vigis: don't be MrZentor (case in point: Game of Thrones)

Again, having cohosted GoT I was aware of what he was talking about so I didn't really think about the implications of this piece of advice. However, upon reflection, this feels really out of place in the rest of his (semi-reasonable) advice. Look at the tone: in the points previous when directing blue roles, he gave fairly sound reasoning behind saying the things he is - but not when directing the vigs. He left it up to the reader to discover the reasoning (giving a player and a game and expecting the reader to do the legwork).

This is similar to a scum tactic I'm always looking for - bloating up their perceived activity while simultaneously causing the accuser to look bad for "not reading" - "L2READ N00B I answered that already" instead of simply repeating what was already said in an earnest attempt to be understood.

Anyway, all general advice and all stuff most of you should know, but read it over anyway.

This has been touched on by others, but I'd like to reiterate that if this was all "general advice and all stuff most of you should know", then why post it in the first place and why instruct everyone to "read it anyway"? The obvious answer, as Nova_Terra would tell you (again) is "Because he could be scum pushing an agenda"…which is precisely what I think is going on.

Is it possible that it's just a coincidence that scum went blue-hunting last night? Sure, it's possible…but it's my belief that it was planned from the beginning that scum weren't going to be aiming for analysts or "townies making sense" last night - they were going to be blue-hunting last night.

Is it possible that Bugs was just trying to make a light-hearted jab at MrZentor (someone not even playing this game) in his advice to Vigs? Sure that's possible, but not likely considering A) Zentor isn't in this game and B) given the tone of the rest of his post (cold, analytical advice), the "joke" seems out of place.

That brings us to his word of advice concerning dealing with VE.

I don't support policy lynching but I do agree we should keep an eye on VE because his play can be quite erratic. If he's the focus of attention as either alignment it becomes very difficult to discern what he is. So for now I think we should look elsewhere so we don't have that problem, and let VE decide for himself what he wants to do.

The thing that gets me is the disconnect between the two bolded statements. If everyone is "keeping an eye on me" then I'm going to be the focus of attention. But if I'm the focus of attention, I'll be "more difficult to read" yeah? Ultimately, he says to "look elsewhere", but not before already casting the shadow of doubt on me in his very first post. So yeah, even this is suspect to me, and NOT because it's about me. Because it's contradictory and doesn't make any sense.

##Unvote: Zealos
##Vote: wherebugsgo

Let's do this bugs. Not later. Now. If we both live until tomorrow this is happening anyway, so let's just get it over with. I think you're scum. It's your turn to think I'm scum and vote for me.

Let's do this bugs. Not later. Now. If we both live until tomorrow this is happening anyway, so let's just get it over with. I think you're scum. It's your turn to think I'm scum and vote for me.

On May 22 2012 05:52 VisceraEyes wrote:
4/15 huh? 2 families of 2 I'm guessing? What do you think Bugs?

On May 22 2012 01:26 Nova_Terra wrote:
as of yet i would be fine with either a Navillus or WBG lynch

On May 24 2012 14:29 wherebugsgo wrote:
Be prepared for VE to call you scum again, whether true or not :p

Since my original post got buried:

Acid, thoughts on Zealos and Tunkeg please, since you ignored talking about them earlier. Perhaps thoughts on froggy and VE as well.

On May 22 2012 16:27 VisceraEyes wrote:
Bugs, I loathe to talk about my reads with you for balance reasons, but everyone else has forsaken us.

How confident are YOU that Nova is scum? I feel like he went limp kinda quick, but aside from that has at least quit posting scummily. Whether that's just because he's quit posting is obviously up for debate. Combined with the fact that he's got so many people going "Meta him bro" and the fact that he's all "Meta me bro" and it just looks really bad.

But something doesn't feel right - like, he seems like TOO easy a target, ya know?

On May 23 2012 04:52 wherebugsgo wrote:
Sorry all, I became really sick overnight. Feeling quite a bit better now, though.

I'm fine with killing Katina, VE, and mold man, in that order.

Katina normally reads the thread and she usually has more than one read. She also at the very least explains herself to townies. It's clear that she's deliberately ignoring my questions, possibly because she doesn't actually believe in her "case" on Nova (i.e she is scum)

By the time I asked Katina the first time how sure she was of Nova being scum I had started to think he was town. Now, it is day 1, and I may be completely wrong about my assessment, but the way the bandwagons have gone today suggest either that both nova and mouldy are town or that one of them is scum. Based on the nova votes just now I'm inclined to think mouldy is scum.

Of course, we'll never know the truth unless they flip. As there's not much time left in the day I think we should kill mouldy.

If anyone else agrees with me that we should kill Katina or VE, let me know and perhaps we can get a vote switch going. I'll be around till deadline.

##unvote
##vote Mouldy Jeb

PS. Anyone notice that Katina says she hates people using the noob card, but hasn't really expressed suspicion of mouldy? (at least, from what I recall)

On May 22 2012 05:52 VisceraEyes wrote:
4/15 huh? 2 families of 2 I'm guessing? What do you think Bugs?

On May 22 2012 05:59 wherebugsgo wrote:


??

I don't think that's balanced at all; normally a 16 player game has 4 mafia on one team. As this is a 15 player game I would expect that to be true as well.

On May 24 2012 14:05 wherebugsgo wrote:
You say I'm ignoring you because you're either wholly self centered or scum. I address only what's necessary to address and nothing more, because information about reads in the hands of scum causes them to act differently.

Think about ET being shot, and reread some of the only posts made on him. Tunkeg made an ET accusation that was completely ignored. ET was relatively vocal, and from what I recall several people called him town.

Each time you've accused me of ignoring you both in this game and others there's two explanations: I'm afk when you are here or I've already addressed you and you simply don't find it satisfactory. My problem? Not really.

Anyway, if you want to work together then you might as well stop calling me scum, since I'm not.

On May 25 2012 06:36 marvellosity wrote:


Because a one or two word opinion is worth everything?

What do you think of this guy? townie. What about him? stupid. Who is scum and with what reasoning? Mr moobumballs because the sun is low in the sky. Great.

On May 23 2012 00:21 marvellosity wrote:




So people, what do we think of Zealos? He votes on MouldyJeb who he thinks is bad town. He tells me he doesn't have a strong scumread. Then he reiterates that in fact Mouldy IS a strong scumread, even though he is likely town (seriously, wtf). Contradictions abound.

On May 24 2012 07:44 froggynoddy wrote:


This makes no sense whatsoever.

On May 26 2012 08:30 VisceraEyes wrote:
Selectively not responding to people is provocation Bugs, you conveniently don't mention that - as it's something you admit to doing and was the whole reason I started considering you scum in the first place...or have you forgotten?

On May 26 2012 08:31 VisceraEyes wrote:
The townie thing to do is to comment on a claim Bugs, you're literally trying to make town buy that AS scum Katina wouldn't be trying to emmulate town play and actually CHOSE to not mention Zealos' claim.

As scum, the IDEA is to emmulate town play, so if I were scum and in Katina's position, I'd have ABSOLUTELY mentioned Zealos' claim, the very notion that scum wouldn't is absolutely ludicrous to me.

On May 26 2012 08:52 marvellosity wrote:
Tunkeg, if you spent half the time scumhunting as talking about arguing, we'd actually be getting somewhere

On May 26 2012 09:16 VisceraEyes wrote:
I mean, I can't accept that with my new Zen mindstate - we look at things from different viewpoints to see if the "decisive opinion" we've already arrived at still makes sense.

.....kay?

On May 26 2012 09:17 VisceraEyes wrote:


Most of the thread does - it's why I can't get a damn wagon rolling XD

On May 25 2012 01:43 wherebugsgo wrote:
Do any of you ever stop to think why Zealos may be impervious to a wagon?

Stop to think of why he may not be getting as many votes as we want him to.

Stop and reread his posts.

On May 24 2012 07:45 Zealos wrote:

He also Tunkeg's scumbuddy hiro?

On May 24 2012 07:51 Zealos wrote:
In fact, hiro, you've written nothing of substance all game bar a case against Mouldy. Your points against Tunkeg have seemed weak, and your latest post is downright dreadful. Seems like you're tunnelling tunkeg to avoid giving any other reads.

On May 27 2012 08:27 VisceraEyes wrote:
Are you of the opinion that Hiro is scum Tunkeg?