Magic: The Gathering Mini Mafia - Page 7

How to explain this... The case against Zealos is made up of bits and pieces. A quote here, a quote there, someone pointed out inconsistencies and so on, but there is no big thing. If you take every single point in a vacuum, none of them scream "SCUM!"

And, looking at the big picture, it's hard to see the scum agenda that should normally be revealed in a situation like this. No one has been able to answer a very simple question that I shouldn't even have to ask.

"If Zealos is scum, what is he trying to achieve by playing this way? How is this playstyle going to lead the mafia to a victory?"

Now, if you looks at zelblade's posting, sure there's only one thing wrong. But it's a big thing. It's a five by itself. And if we were to ask the same questions of zelblade, answers are easily found. As a scum he has everything to gain by playing this way, especially if he has a special power to use at night.

I find this entire post deeply inconsistent. I have pointed out several times the scummy motivations for doing what Zealos did. Your justification on zelblade is so weak.

To the bold: so zelblade has some special power, and the best way to utilise it is... wait... it's coming.... I know! to say he's going to post reads and then not! That's sure to make him survive so he can use his powers!

-.-

marvellosity

United Kingdom36161 Posts

May 24 2012 20:42 GMT

#849

EBWOP: that post was in part in response to Navillus as well as in response to Acid. I do not have a comprehensive read on Acid at the moment.

marvellosity

United Kingdom36161 Posts

May 24 2012 20:55 GMT

#850

To Navillus: why do you have a town-read on Matt?

marvellosity

United Kingdom36161 Posts

May 24 2012 21:17 GMT

#861

On May 25 2012 06:11 Mattchew wrote:

I don't care about his lack of defense, I care about his reads and what he has posted

The reads he decided not to post during the day? The read where he said I hadn't made a case but I had? Or where he said I was posting a lot even though that's irrelevant?

What is it about the timing of his reads (not posting them during the day) or content (everything he said on me was bad) do you like? Or is it just that he went after zelblade who you are also going after?

marvellosity

United Kingdom36161 Posts

May 24 2012 21:20 GMT

#863

On May 25 2012 06:10 Navillus wrote:
Marvel first at the beginning he was doing his whole flavor text thing which I really didn't see as alignment indicative, if anything town would probably be more willing to do it because scum would be afraid of drawing attention and everyone yelling at them to stop, but then where I started to think he was town was when people had a problem with him he continued to do it but also made sure to make his reads clear and explicit as the game went on, I don't think scum would do this as once enough people were accepting it or not lynching him over it I think he was in the clear, policy lynches rarely happen day 1 and almost never day 2, but he continued to be clear with what he was saying.

Then when he posted all of his reads I agreed with many of them and just the thought process behind them seemed townie.

The biggest thing now though is that he stopped with the flavor to try to get VE and WBG to stop fighting. Scum would have no reason to do this, first most scum would (and probably did) just stay out of that fight in general seeing as it was making the thread more confusing and scum-hunting more difficult. They could sit behind the excuse that it was the two vets and they know more or should work it out or something, but Matt has an even better excuse, he could have ignored it or thrown some useless flavor at it and if anyone asked him about it later he could say he did what he could (which because it would just be some flavor text probably wouldn't fix anything) and no one would blame him as most people accepted the flavor at this point. But instead he decides that doing what's best for town is more important and stops with the flavor text, this is big because one he's helping town in the first place by calming the fight and two by stopping the flavor text he's making himself more vulnerable and easier to read, I think if scum took the gambit to post like that at the beginning they wouldn't be willing to give up the advantage of being harder to read so soon at all.

Perhaps you're right. It's not a ploy I'd put past a scum Matt, at all though.

For example, an alternative story:

1) sees Drazerk made it to endgame almost without suspicion using posting restriction, does it himself
2) rides to the rescue by posting normally again (like we should be pleased with this. he should have been doing so from the start) and gains town credit for it and coming to scold wbg/VE.

I'm not saying this has to be the case, but it definitely could be the case.

marvellosity

United Kingdom36161 Posts

May 24 2012 21:21 GMT

#864

EBWOP: 1) is referring to Holy Roman which just finished

marvellosity

United Kingdom36161 Posts

May 24 2012 21:36 GMT

#870

On May 25 2012 06:30 Mattchew wrote:
ps. its not my fault if you couldn't understand my posts when i was using flavor, I made the message in each one pretty fucking simple and usually revolving around one or two words

Because a one or two word opinion is worth everything?

What do you think of this guy? townie. What about him? stupid. Who is scum and with what reasoning? Mr moobumballs because the sun is low in the sky. Great.

marvellosity

United Kingdom36161 Posts

May 24 2012 21:37 GMT

#871

On May 25 2012 06:33 Mattchew wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +

On May 25 2012 01:24 Nova_Terra wrote:
Hi, im going to take a brief bit of time to go over my favorite for todays lynch, Katina.
Note the word brief, her filter is 12 posts. 6 of which is 1 or 2 liners.

Now lets go and check a game where Katina was scum, TL Mafia LIV.
In her filter:
Posts at the same rate as this game, aka lurking (until she gets modkilled day1)
posting aggressively when she actually posts
quoting to look like shes contributing
to quote katina,
What is she doing this game?
...
...
Same thing!
First post

Show nested quote +

Okay, so immediately we have complaining about other peoples votes while offering nothing, saying theres nothing to scum hunt with (yeah thanks for that) a Navillus scummy bandwagon, and a promise for some closer look soon.
Only a day and 3 hours later does she actually make a post with any sort of "closer look".
Second post

Show nested quote +

On May 22 2012 07:25 Katina wrote:

On May 22 2012 05:52 froggynoddy wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +

On May 22 2012 05:29 Tunkeg wrote:
Reads d1 of Day1

Acrofalis/Marvellosity:
Leaning town based on Acrofalis aggression while he was in game. He tried to get this game going, and tried to apply some pressure.

EchelonTee:
Leaning town. He went into a fight with Acrofalis from the get go, and haven't been afraid to stick his head out.

Zealos
Get some scumvibes off him. He started the game by voting VE as number two, without a good reason. He claims it to be a joke later (which it might be). He then proceeds to vote Acrofales based on ET's case, and because of meta, basicly sheeping ET. The rest of his filter seems very empty, even though he got more post than most in this game. Some townpoints for actually bother to answer questions.

Mattchew
He might be one of those I called out for not posting earlier, that is a scum. I don't know what he is trying to do, but if his postingstyle continues this way he will be disruptive townie at best, and sabotaging scum at worst. Leaning scum for now.

Nova_Terra
Leaning scum. He was active at the start, but unlike Acrofalis his attempts at pushing seems more forced, and with no real weight behind it. His whole postingstyle seems very non-commital and gives me scumvibes.

Also Navillus need to get in the thread and do some more. His vote on WBG is the only thing he have done. And it was done without much reasoning, and in my opinion strange reasoning.

PS: I know you guys don't like list. But I want to do lists so bare with me.

PS 2: This is not an analysis post. It is a read post. When I am ready to put my vote down on someone I will try to make a good case/analysis on them. Exception is if there is a great case on them that I agree with, then I will be open about sheeping it, and probably just add some of my own reasoning to it.

This list... serves no purpose other than making you look active. Town reads are worse than useless day 1 as 1. they are even weaker than day 1 scumreads and 2. points to scum who to kill to cause confusion.

EDIT: There was more but WBG and Navillus covered it whilst I was writing

+ Show Spoiler +

On May 22 2012 05:37 Navillus wrote:
Okaaay so my WBG vote was a joke, I do not actually think it's a good idea to lynch one of our 2 vets on that basis alone and I am not really of the opinion that advice is an automatic scum-tell, it'd be nice to have a little benefit of the doubt on me not being an idiot.

Next ##Unvote
##Vote: Mattchew

As far as I can tell he's just posting with flavor text from mtg cards, if that continues I don't really care if he's scum or town it makes him impossible to read, doesn't let him contribute, and makes for a really shitty atmosphere. Mattchew stop it.

On N_T yes VE and WBG I'd say he's using pretty bad method of scumhunting/analysis and his vote is for a dumb reason, but that doesn't make him scum and aside from clear-cut examples of someone being useless or disruptive (such as restricting their posts to text from a card game) it's a bad idea to lynch someone for bad play, in my experience it's rarely a scumtell and depending on how they're playing badly it can be more of a town tell.

Tunkeg you asked a bunch of questions earlier, most of them were ignored, was there any point to them? Why don't you care that people didn't answer you/why aren't you following up? Also why post that list, if you have scum reads why aren't you just pressuring them instead of telling them, and how does telling everyone your town-reads do anything but let scum know who you think is townie and so light them up as targets?

Holy spam batman! NT scum or town please stop with multiple one or two line posts in a row, it's distracting and makes the thread harder to read through, consolidate.

How is voting for Mattchew due to his posting style (which you consider to be *Bad*) different to voting N_T based on bad play?

I don't necessarily disagree with you I just think you're being a little inconsistent. Shoot I forgot to unvote as promised:

##Unvote
##Vote Katina

Inactive players kill town. Katina, my vote stays on you until you make an appearance.

I made an apperance earlier today. Do you not read over the thread my dear?

On May 22 2012 03:27 Nova_Terra wrote:

On May 22 2012 02:58 VisceraEyes wrote:

On May 21 2012 21:17 Nova_Terra wrote:
Hey VE since you seem to want to ignore my challenge who do you wanna kill

Hey Nova, since you seem to want to ignore my question to you (something that's actually USEFUL to this game, unlike your "challenge"), how about you actually answer it instead of trying to distract town with meaningless drivel? I'll even repost it for your convenience.

On May 21 2012 08:56 VisceraEyes wrote:

On May 21 2012 05:59 Nova_Terra wrote:

On May 21 2012 05:27 wherebugsgo wrote:
Whether or not advice is good has nothing to do with the alignment of a player, just the same as making a plan, regardless of how good it is, is generally not indicative of alignment.

If the advice makes sense, follow it. If not, don't. The question of "is this guy scum" has nothing to do with that.

I never said that it has anything to do with indicacating the alignment of the player,i said that general advice seems to be contributing but isnt really. and that its just as likely mister helpful is scum, etc.

Your style has so far been laced with an air of giving advice to the other players - in what way is Bugs' post giving advice any different from, say, you warning that "players trying to give advice could be scum"?

ooh i forgot about that
Its different because its not all i've done
and because i know im town
and its not really different itself, but i was aware of the hypocrisy before i made teh post

I would to bring attention to this lovely post. N_T might be the BM version 2! I say this because of his spam, oneliners, and the fact he seems to be refreshing the thread every 5 minutes. When BM is mafia he always over emphasizes that he is confirmed town.

Such things are silly to say and provide no help to the town I will be setting my vote.

##Vote Nove_Terra

Based on his fliter, he seems to more interesting in proving his innocence then trying to find the Mafia.

Then we have a wonderfully awful case against myself, decides to link me to another player and therefore i am mafia (lolwut)
This post is also wonderful because once gets accused of lurking... NO LOOK I WAS HERE BEFORE READ READ READ WHY U NO READ

So so far we have a silly case and vote that adds suspicion to players with no logical reasoning, getting defensive when called out on totally true lurking, and meta that is the exact same as her last games scum meta

Show nested quote +

Oh cool, now we have a secondary target being thrown out, but not only is this post throwing out a secondary target...
Its pretty much doing the same thing as Katina was pointing out here, and more importantly shes asking for someone to do the dirty work for her. Im not sure we should but he should be suspicious everybody notice i do stuff.

Now heres the first real "closer look post"

Show nested quote +

On May 23 2012 04:19 Katina wrote:
Sorry, I'm here now. I had a very busy day yesterday but it's all good now.

On May 21 2012 04:45 Nova_Terra wrote:
Yaaaaaay!
Should we get rid of a veteran? should we? I THINK SO :D
##Vote: VisceraEyes

On May 22 2012 01:26 Nova_Terra wrote:
as of yet i would be fine with either a Navillus or WBG lynch

On May 22 2012 04:34 Nova_Terra wrote:

On May 22 2012 04:16 froggynoddy wrote:
Hello, finally recovered from weekend (did not expect this game to start so early).

Hello Marv

: I'm almost tempted to policy vote you due to how scary good you played with me as scum in LIV. Policy lynches are bad though so your safe until you post more.

I don't think WBG's opening comment is alignment charged. there are equal reasons for both town and scum to open up D1 with general common sense posts.

From the 2 games I've played (Noobie VIII and TLMafia LIV) and N_T has been lurky/bored as townie and hyper-active as scum. Just saying.

Navillus, despite still being a noob I am strongly against a 'voting against vets' policy. It makes no sense and seems hugely anti-town, unless its a joke.

Let me know if it is because until then ##Vote Navillus[/b

Rofl, well thats interesting, it looks like i just went through your newbie game (snmmIX not VIII, bitch to find) and in that game there was an understanding that my town meta was very very active which i ended up failing at as scum, and my meta change was frequently noted in cases against me. Very interesting that you would want to try to make this conclusion. what reason would there be other than scum?

##Unvote
##Vote: Froggynoddy

On May 22 2012 14:24 Nova_Terra wrote:
On May 22 2012 14:18 EchelonTee wrote:
acid, jeb, katina, or no lynch

i think one of those should happen

in no particular order froggy, katina, WBG

Okay.... please tell me you guys have seem how inconsistent N_T is. Take a look at his filter. He opens with going after VE right off the back with close to no reasoning except he that he might be a veteran. Then he proceeds to spew out short useless posts. He is throwing doubt around the town and is picking at everyone. I don't need to tell you guys he's spamming relentlessly. As I said before he seems more interested in proving his own innocence than trying to find mafia. This is shown by how he is trying to kill anyone he can. Instead of just focusing on one or two players.

First part of the post is literally the exact same excuse as LIV where she says that she had a busy night so apologies apologies, good job
Then is this awful reasoning that i am scum, looks like to me once she realized that my vote got sufficient traction it was time to bandwagon a real reason for hers
Problem is, the reasons are bull. So right now it appears that she opposes pressure (apparently pressuring a veteran isnt ok) and its a problem that i picked at "everyone" (actually 6 people, 15 people in town. i dont see the problem). Furthermore, as she had just been in a game with me, i would assume she knows how i post spammily and this shouldnt be surprising to her. Unless she rolled scum, and is bullshitting, that is. Apparently its a bad thing to not only focus on 1 or 2 players (what? trying to limit a vote where there is no no-lynch?)

Then theres a couple worthless short defenses of herself. then this wonderful gem:

Show nested quote +

.....
Not only is this completely stupid to have not seemed to read the thread, she says that my spam is similar to a game i played mafia in
But wait, i was just in a game with you where i was town
AND I SPAMMED
So now shes just throwing shit to try to get a nice mislynch, doesnt matter if it makes sense as long as it casts suspicion, amirite katina

Show nested quote +

OWAIT NOOOO dont get me wrong im not trying to say that hes scum because of it! im just suggesting its a possibility11!!!!!

Do i seriously need to explain this

Then theres some wonderful sheeping on the "mattchews posting is cute but maybe hes scum"
Good job saying nothing original (again)

WIFOM: Katina was one of ET's main suspects that he was fine with lynching, but wasnt noticed very much
Same meta as scum Katina
[b]##Vote: Katina

this is a good case, sorry i missed it. more people should read this and give their thoughts

I did try to delve into a specific part of it, but it didn't get me very far for some reason

marvellosity

United Kingdom36161 Posts

May 24 2012 21:41 GMT

#873

I also have more meaningful content than you, you douchebag twat.

marvellosity

United Kingdom36161 Posts

May 24 2012 21:46 GMT

#878

I just don't know in what world posts like this are supposed to be clear or helpful:

On May 24 2012 06:06 Mattchew wrote:

Show nested quote +

+ Show Spoiler [The Entire Zealos Case] +

On May 23 2012 23:18 Zealos wrote:
Could I just point out how "Active" Marvel has been all game, without making any real cases himself. He seems very good at pointing out problems, asking questions and what not, but I want to know who you want to kill and why
Not to mention from the very start he distances himself from Acro, instead of trying to make himself look more innocent:

Show nested quote +

I understand the reasoning, but it seems like a free copout for acro's scummy posting. Not to mention he makes a lot of small posts with very little use for them other than to seem active.

Show nested quote +

(ironic)

The point is, useful townies don't use the thread as a place to have a conversation, they use it to root out scum.
So Marvellosity, you've got 4 bullets in your gun, who dies and why?

Big ones hunt the elves, so the elves hunt the small ones to keep them from getting big.

marvellosity

United Kingdom36161 Posts

May 24 2012 21:52 GMT

#881

On May 25 2012 06:45 froggynoddy wrote:

@Marv: Unless you feel like Matt's style was scummy I suggest you back off. Matt seemed to have switched for the good of town rather than to save himself. This to me gives Matt some credit. I for one did not find his roleplay scummy though I do think it limited his content.

Now kiss and make up... unless you think the other is scum, if so write a case.

Sorry froggy, my bad. I missed the memo where forcibly and artificially limiting your own content was a pro-town thing to do.

marvellosity

United Kingdom36161 Posts

May 24 2012 21:57 GMT

#883

On May 25 2012 06:54 Mattchew wrote:

Show nested quote +

remember that time you signed up for a Magic the Gathering themed mini game?

Mmhmm. Let's have a little fun with a thought experiment

1) what happens when everyone does their best to contribute in a clear way?

2) what happens when everyone only posts in MTG quotes?

*ponders*

marvellosity

United Kingdom36161 Posts

May 24 2012 22:08 GMT

#889

On May 25 2012 06:59 wherebugsgo wrote:
this is a flavored normal game, not a themed one.

Moving on: you said earlier you would post some cases/reads around now if the thread hadn't moved on. I'm not sure I count me and Matt shouting at each other as the thread moving on. So, care to share?

marvellosity

United Kingdom36161 Posts

May 24 2012 22:12 GMT

#892

On May 25 2012 07:09 VisceraEyes wrote:
Marvel, is it safe to assume that you're on the Zealos train to town purtiy?

Pretty safe. If a genuinely good case comes up on someone else I will consider it of course. But zelblade is not that case.

marvellosity

United Kingdom36161 Posts

May 24 2012 22:14 GMT

#893

I am actually quite interested in Acid. His somewhat dismissal of the Zealos case and absolute adherence to the zelblade case, where he uses the same but faulty reasoning for both opinions intrigues me.

He says he can't find the motivation in Zealos, and yet apparently the motivation in zelblade not following through on his reads is perfectly clear.

marvellosity

United Kingdom36161 Posts

May 24 2012 22:16 GMT

#894

EBWOP: further, he makes a huge deal out of the zelblade not posting his cases when he said he would thing. Like, that is *the* thing that makes him scum. Because he wants to survive to the night to possible use his powers? Why on earth would zelblade make and break a commitment if he wanted to fly under the radar? It doesn't add up at all.