| Forum Index > TL Mafia |
|
VisceraEyes
United States21170 Posts
Night 1 ![[image loading]](http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3559/3333079635_6c256d8d8f.jpg) The town had gathered in mass to discuss the messy business of which among them was to die. After much discussion and debate, they came to a consensus. Unfortunately, their luck couldn't have been worse. hegeo the Town Doctor has been destroyed by his peers. Mufaa has failed to vote and will be replaced. Voting is mandatory. You have ~24 hours to send in your night-actions. | ||
|
sciberbia
United States1359 Posts
| ||
|
ShiaoPi
TAIWAN NUMBAH WAN5955 Posts
Mordanis and Release you should better prepare a damn good defense now | ||
|
ShiaoPi
TAIWAN NUMBAH WAN5955 Posts
| ||
|
sciberbia
United States1359 Posts
| ||
|
s0Lstice
United States1832 Posts
| ||
|
Release
United States4397 Posts
Here is a short answer to a post which still appeared scummy (despite the fact that he turned out blue): I couldn't give two shits about Mordanis because your case was so much more scummy than his. | ||
|
Release
United States4397 Posts
On May 24 2012 08:21 hegeo wrote: What I post now is in contrast to what I stated before, namely that I said I had no strong scumread. Truth is, I have. You will see/saw how I flipped. I apologize for playing bad or not optimal, but all I want is to win. And I win with town, wether I’m dead or alive. Since I’m about to get lynched (or shot at night for that matter if I'm correct), I present to you evidence for a scum team, that seemingly decided to play this game not as lurkers, but the direct opposite. I’m not trying to defend myself here, I accuse. I urge you to reread my posts and all the others I quoted if you really want to go into detail here. It will take more time than you have until deadline. I understand. I worked as quick as I can. The bold/italics for orientation only. There are also important points I couldn't highlight anymore. The beautiful scum duo Release and Mordanis 1. The Start + Show Spoiler + They started the day with a wonderful pas de deux before the thread really started of. Release was the attacking part quickly ##FOSing Mordanis for his first post, also critizising Sciberbia for a question "myself and Mordanis" already answered and calls it “WIFOM” (remember that word please!). Nice. Mordanis then said he was "glad for your early FOS", but told him to be "slightly more trusting" and that he was "very, very" aggressive (also citing a very nice opinion form Artanis: "Artanis, a player whom I trust, wrote that mafia are rarely aggresive. […] So please stop with the extreme distrust for a while, and wait for a little while while everyone analyzes what we've just written." We've written? He also answered very shortly to the question “Sciberia” asked. Sciberia [sic]? But more on that later. Release then answered “I understand your post so for now: unFOS: Mordanis”. Nice and easy. Release asks Mordanis about his opinion on Sciberia’s [sic!] post then, Mordanis replies “he asks us what our stances are on these issues”. Interim findings: So what was established by them for now is that a) agressive/active players aren't scum (I mean, why would they be, they could lurk around which is easier!) so both of them can't be scum, right? b) They were attacking each other (kind of). So they can’t be scumbuddies, right? Why would they do so. c) Everytime it’s “us” or “we”. Aren’t they nice buddies? d) They talk about Sciberia. Not Sciberbia. 2. The Interlude + Show Spoiler + I join the table (and you will all now know my flip) and I find it kind of interesting what I read from them, but couldn’t see through it at that point. I ask Mordanis out about some of his points (just to start my day basically) about “him and Golden” etc. Golden answers me very politely, Sciberbia also joins and we are all (the others more than me I have to admit) talking about each others opinions etc., Solstice focusses Miltonkram etc. ShiaoPI weighs in, good vibes. When Golden calls him out, Release answers with an example from an earlier game (please remember the “earlier game” stuff), while he earlier stated (right in the beginning): “Also, why are you talking about the last game? You should be more concerned with this … This seems more like filler.” I agree with you. Filler here. Release also answers to Mordanis post from earlier, where Mordanis asked “When do you think we need to start panicking?” (Mordanis quickly adds that he means “this question for everyone”. Glad you added this) Release points out that “we need more information”. And answering to solistices post : “people need to post more”. Activity!! Sciberbia calls milton out, I mention releases posts (look at my original post!), also saying that “you have your points that I can agree with and you definitely contribute”. I also added that Mordanis also stated that he (Release) was aggressive earlier (this was merely to be careful not to be called someone who copies stuff from others). At that point, I wanted to clarify why the both of them seemed so close. That was aggressive, yes, but before that I still believed in a strong but maybe accidental coincidence. I hoped to get at least one of them talking. Since I wasn’t sure (and a little excited, my first mafia yeah!), I also critizised ShiaoPi for his posting, others added to this. In the end, I was satisfied with what he said in defense, I had (and have) a strong town read on him and told him that, when suddently… 3. … the enfants terrible entered the room again! + Show Spoiler + Mordanis starts with a red “hegeo”. Uh, uh, I am screwed. He defends himself by accusing me of suspicious posting times (I already made mincemeat of his arguments, now I don't have to repeat them). AND he also defends his best buddy Release (the whole “chastens Release“ stuff), and I make him very angry because I remind him of his post in the beginning (where he said agressiveness could make someone look scummy). He says my analysis is bad. If you think so, Release- but I got what I wanted. Sciberbia asks Mordanis what he thinks about my posts on shiaopi. I assume Mordanis didn’t read them (only the two about himself and his scumbuddy). So he states “I was actually ignoring them on purpose”. Releases’s entrance: A post, direct accusation, nothing else! At that time, I smelled scum. I pointed it out: “Wow, release and mordanis coming back at the same time!“ They didn’t care to answer (after all 40mins between their posts, could have made me look bad here). After seeing how I made them angry, no comment on this?? For your own protection I suppose. Release called me a liar, (he bolded it to make sure everybody sees it!) and said he had no other option than to “##Vote: Hegeo” And then this wonderful gem: He thinks 3 mafia are in this game? (See how he bolded these numbers? Give it a quick glance how much text he has bolded overall. He stated way more important stuff without ever bolding it.) NP, his buddy helps him out, with a smiley, citing the first page of the thread. 3mins (!) after Releases post, this answer is posted. He must have read all of Releases post, searched for the first page etc. I think, if you try to read Releases post directly after he posted it (so basically 15 secs after the post), can you read everything critically to this point AND see his mistake AND care about it more than about his points against me AND go to the frontpage AND quote AND add a little smiley face AND post it? Nice try. Also, NO interaction between those two in thread! No “hello”, I think hegeo is stupid what do you think? They are just silently working together as the tag team they are, trying to keep the pressure up. (Release also says he will post an analysis of my post on ShiaoPi, maybe Mordanis reminded him to do so to make it less obvious…btw Release doesn’t deliver at all in this context) 4. Here comes the heat + Show Spoiler + Sciberbia is active during this period (while I was preparing my answers) to ask the terrible twins about their opinions. He also claims that he didn’t “find [Mordanis points on me] very inciminating”. Time for R&M to act! Sciberia is dangerous, we need to isolate hegeo and make Sciberia stop! (At the same time, ShiaoPi answers to my post. So much to read and write for me!) Lot’s of cross-talk between people now, everybody asking everybody else (starting at May 23 2012 06:11) about opinions etc. I’m still writing. So Mordanis calls “Sciberia” [sic!] out, telling him “this is not a very high level game” and that he should “Compare [his-Mordanis] post to Hegeo's accusation of ShiaoPi.” Do you really want people to do so, Mordanis? Sciberbia refuses to take a hit for being called “passive-aggressive”, manning up. Asking others on opinions about me. And why shouldn’t he? Mordanis is fluffing around, no quality posts whatsoever. When Sciberbia doesn’t stop, Mordanis cites one of his older games as reason (quoting ShiaoPis post on me only being weird but most likely not scum): “Perhaps I am biased, but in my last game I read one player as an illogical townie, and he turned out to be mafia. This was embarrasing, but I read part of the scum QT, and all of the scum laughed at me for that read.” Funny. Your point? – We come back to that later. But wait - didn’t Release mention earlier that he didn’t like people talk about older games and critizised Mordanis for it,.. but wait, didn’t he himself talk about them as a basis of how to play? Still no cross-talk (reread the timeframe I mention! Compare what others do!) between R&M. I answer to Mordanis (I worked hard to show his lack of content etc and structured it the best I could, reread it), later also to ShiaoPi. Note that Shiao has a fairly logical stand towards me, he is not angry although I really may have sounded mean to him. Mordanis comment on my post: “Wow, so much anger. …I am actually a bit angry about Hegeo's response and the game in general, so I'm gonna take a bit of time off before coming back. “ So he goes away for a… no wait! He posts 5 minutes later that “On second thought, that was not as angry as I thought. Still, its time to take a breather.” Then he goes. Had to talk to Release I suppose, sadly not in our thread. Let me remind you again, they are freaking angry at me (well, I don’t really think they are, but not to shabby acting there). Wait… did you say “they are angry”? We only see Mordanis’s post…Well: Release joins the table (departure angry Mordanis, entrance angry Release again-May 23 2012 07:59) and gets insta-mad at Sciberbia and does his “##FOS: Sciberia”-Stuff. Oh, quite funny, “Sciberia” again. Why can’t the both of you (and ONLY the both of you) write his name correctly? Like in “NEVER EVER” (Well, release writes “Sciberbia” once in the beginning. Mordanis even before game start omits the “b”. Quite the influence Mordanis has on you Release, no?) He calls Sciberbias post “WIFOM”. Where have we read this term the last time… let me see…ahh yes, Mordanis said it to me. And Release earlier to Sciberbia in the beginning. (Later on, Sciberbia will cite this term only to defend himself when called on WIFOMing, no one else uses it) And the best part of his post: “Still, hegeo seemed much worse about his response to my post than you are to mordanis.”?? - Well did I mention they kind of care for each other? While Mordanis states earlier that “Also, I think that we should stop defending for other people.”( May 23 2012 07:01) Mordanis never calls Release out on that, nor does he thank him for his help. No comment. Ever. No exchange of reads. Nothing. 6. So, I mean you should get my point by now, but I will procede... + Show Spoiler + To remind you where we stand: Two “angry” scumbuddies try to suffocate everybody else, taking turns on targeting the more active/aggressive players towards them (well, one is only lurking right now, but the other one fights for two). Release gets mad at me not posting (while I said I would need time, and I answered to Mordanis and ShiaoPi in the meantime with pretty long posts. Remember, this is not my mother tongue, I need time to write stuff) He repeats “The longer you wait to respond to my post the more scummy you appear. Respond soon if not now!” which reminds me of his earlier “be warned”. Uh oh. Why don’t you ask Mordanis about his reads on people in the meantime, or at least commiserate in this thread with your angry buddy? I mean, my passive-aggressiveness made him so angry, why don’t you say a word when he gets out because he needs to calm down? Oh wait, you do. Kind of. You attack me again for what you state “misquoting” Mordanis words on you in the beginning (May I post out, that you at that point seem to have read my post from 80mins ago): ”But again you take Mordanis's quote (like you did with mine) way out of context. Mordanis said that at the start after my double FOS very early in the game. I changed, he acknowledged, but you are trying to create an illusion that this hasn't happened. (May 23 2012 08:31)” You changed? Right before that, in that very post, you ask me “Wtf is this shit?” I can find scumminess in virtually every post that you've made so far. Oh wait, this is what you said about me. So I have to quote it: “I can find scumminess in virtually every post that you've made so far.” Sorry. And he repeats himself again on that I have to post now or I am scum. Release, you seemed pretty convinced I was scum (fellow townies, you see how I flip(ed)- don’t know when you read it), you didn’t give me ANY benefit of the doubt. I granted it to you, ShiaoPi and Mordanis (again, reread my posts). You saw me as an easy target. And I was. Then I post my answer to Release (while he attacks sciberbia again, mentioning “WIFOM”). I wont elaborate on that. Read what I said. In his “answer", this sentence here is nice btw: Quoting my post (“It seems as though you either just want to stir up anything you can…” [read original for full context) he answers “That bolded part is the most ridiculous crap I've ever heard.” Here I just rephrased your buddy btw: He said (May 22 2012 15:08) “I’ll trust that you are just trying to get things stirred up.” And at last, your standard ceterum censeo: “this is WIFOM territory”. Townies, reread his posts. That brings us to the “end” of this action packed night. 7. The aftermath + Show Spoiler + Two angry scummies. And just to remind everybody that I am a threat to town, I will quote Release: “Since we are closing in on the Night post, we have a few things to decide: Which case is more important: The Solstice/ShiaoPi/Milton or the Hegeo case?” And one sentence later: “After Hegeo's lynch, you two are going to come under increasing pressure…” Or to paraphrase your intentions: Hey all, we need to kill him. He is a threat to…well, at least me and Mordanis. You know how I flipped. You know who never EVER questioned wether he was right in my case (not before I was No.1 lynch target). I started my day voting for Mufaa (Milton did it earlier without comments by our scummies, I did it just to see wether my scummy friends are still awake). And look who’s coming at me again! Release: “i think we can all agree that Hegeo is begging to get lynched.” “place a vote on Hegeo.” (he also notes: Funny: You wake up when i go to sleep.” – I posted at 7:50AM of my time after rereading parts of the thread. I went to bed 2AMish. A classical 0 content post) See how safe he felt! He calls me scummy for voting Mufaa (I mean, come on, at least I didn’t do this “FOS her FOS there, FOS everywhere stuff”. Even marv is laughing about it.) And… Entrance Mordanis again, being apologetic for getting angry… whatever (Mordanis, if you’re serious and /outofgame here, I appreciate it). But then, you have to mention your best buddy again: “And finally, I think that Release has pretty much posted a refutation of your rebuttal.” Before your closing remarks on my emotions (how poetic, “on emotion”), I will quote them in full length: “Hegeo's play seems to be ruled by emotion. This is exactly why I waited until I could be rational and logical before posting. I may have overestimated the amount of anger in this post, but I still believe there is a fair amount. Whether this leads to him being scummy or not is hard to say, but the atmosphere of emotion may have contributed to the lack of posting in the previous hours.” To quote you on that topic when answering ShiaoPi (May 23 2012 07:01) “...,my pride is seeking revenge for the scum disguised as illogical townie.” Your pride and revenge? As in emotionally motivated? And finally, “I'm nervous about not lynching because people are afraid to jump on a bandwagon so early, so I'll vote now. I will however vote for whomever we can muster a majority for. ##Vote: hegeo” What I would like you to do + Show Spoiler + Fellow townies. I worked on my case instead of being in thread the last hours (sorry for that, but if I die today defending myself against scum and you, the evidence I have gets lost). Sorry for not contributing today. As you may see from this, my reads on other people are not anti-town at least, mostly green. (Well Mufaa…) You see/saw how I flipped. I admit I could have played better. But after understanding, that I didn’t only hit one but the two scumbuddies at the same time (that also chose a very aggressive stance in this game), the game was basically already over for me, when I don’t get lynched I’ll die quickly afterwards though. I tried to make my points as you can see, there are also numerous smaller things that could be a coincidence once, but 30 coincidences? Really? I tried to find them for anybody else, drew a network diagram who interacted etc. Do it and you see what I see (if you are not convinced). I hope you consider lynching at least one of them on D2. They will try to tell you that there was “so much evidence” and what not, that I was aggressive, that they realized that there were other cases also later on and were to focussed on me because I called them out, how could they have known that, they will try to prove to you that they are town yadayada. They started putting votes on me. They only interacted in thread when universalities were discussed in the beginning and pressured each other in the beginning with a slight tickle. Contradictions en masse. Tag-teaming. Wording. Feelings. Pressuring. Pushing cases no matter what, agressively. See how they pushed their case. Their ONLY case (until it was sure I would be killed) Look at what I wrote. Reread it. It cost me many hours. If one of them flips scum, kill the other. Question their intentions towards each other, ask them to point out what the other did wrong. Force errors. Make them sweat. Look at how they behave in the near future.Don't let them pick on single points. Dear Mordanis and Release Hopefully, I can read your QT in a while. If you are just two townies, I nominated you for best tag-team ever, you get on like a house on fire. It’s so obvious I doubted my read in the beginning. Disclaimer: I never was really angry or whatever towards anybody, I merely wanted to state that. It’s a game. I hope my read is correct, and that you understand why I had to work on that case rather than having futile discussions (imo) in thread 1 the start: Mordanis was the first to post something that was about our Mafia game. I wanted to get the discussion going so why not use a FOS? Clearly, it did get discussion going and i don't see why this should be questioned. It was a way to avoid the useless banter that tends to happen at the start of every other Mafia game i've read. 2 the interlude: much of your post here is actually mostly summary, but seeing as you turned blue, i will ignore that for now. Mordanis and I seemed close because we were both pushing for information and discussion. That and out of all the people in this thread, he is the one who actually notices (first) that i stopped doing the hyper aggressive posting. Made it seemed like he actually read the thread as opposed to skimming which allows him to make VALID contributions. 3 ... : The timing is a coincidence. Take it for what you will. I called you a liar because that's what you were at the time. Intentionally leaving out the important part of my contribution to make it look like i am posting filler. (Hegeo claimed it was a mis-quote, but i honestly still believe that he was pushing my case way too hard without any evidence). i said 3 mafia because of Newbie game II, which i had been reading into extensively before playing this game. And using a smiley face as evidence is pretty scummy; who pays attention to smilies in a Mafia game? Why do i need to ask Mordanis for his opinion when he is already giving it? You want me to clog up the thread? + Show Spoiler + after reading your post until here, i still can't believe that you actually flipped blue and not red. I didn't respond to your case on Shaopi because i was absolutely sure that you were scum and trying to deflect the attention. Your case on Shiaopi didn't really have a lot of conviction in it and i didn't want to distract people from focusing your case. 4 heat: + Show Spoiler + seriously? His name? I got it right the first time because i didn't know who posted it and copied it from his post. After that, i wrote his name wrong on accident and kept writing it that way. I will probably keep writing it incorrectly because i have it ingrained in my mind that it is Sciberia and not Sciberbia. ^^^ Not important WIFOM is a well known term in the Mafia community. Too bad if anyone else doesn't. + Show Spoiler + It is in the terms list I was just trying to make sure that people recognized that your case was much more scummy than the others'. I didn't give a shit about mordanis. I only care about making sure people were focused you. I didn't suspect him, he contributed, no need to aggravate him. 5: Will be continued | ||
|
Release
United States4397 Posts
no 5. Strikes me as odd. Probably had a 5 but deleted it on second inspection. To me, sounds like grasping at straws and then realizing that the case against myself and mordanis is not as strong as he thought it was. 6. to be continued. | ||
|
Release
United States4397 Posts
| ||
|
VisceraEyes
United States21170 Posts
| ||
|
skware
United States10 Posts
| ||
|
skware
United States10 Posts
On May 24 2012 08:21 hegeo wrote: + Show Spoiler + What I post now is in contrast to what I stated before, namely that I said I had no strong scumread. Truth is, I have. You will see/saw how I flipped. I apologize for playing bad or not optimal, but all I want is to win. And I win with town, wether I’m dead or alive. Since I’m about to get lynched (or shot at night for that matter if I'm correct), I present to you evidence for a scum team, that seemingly decided to play this game not as lurkers, but the direct opposite. I’m not trying to defend myself here, I accuse. I urge you to reread my posts and all the others I quoted if you really want to go into detail here. It will take more time than you have until deadline. I understand. I worked as quick as I can. The bold/italics for orientation only. There are also important points I couldn't highlight anymore. The beautiful scum duo Release and Mordanis 1. The Start + Show Spoiler + They started the day with a wonderful pas de deux before the thread really started of. Release was the attacking part quickly ##FOSing Mordanis for his first post, also critizising Sciberbia for a question "myself and Mordanis" already answered and calls it “WIFOM” (remember that word please!). Nice. Mordanis then said he was "glad for your early FOS", but told him to be "slightly more trusting" and that he was "very, very" aggressive (also citing a very nice opinion form Artanis: "Artanis, a player whom I trust, wrote that mafia are rarely aggresive. […] So please stop with the extreme distrust for a while, and wait for a little while while everyone analyzes what we've just written." We've written? He also answered very shortly to the question “Sciberia” asked. Sciberia [sic]? But more on that later. Release then answered “I understand your post so for now: unFOS: Mordanis”. Nice and easy. Release asks Mordanis about his opinion on Sciberia’s [sic!] post then, Mordanis replies “he asks us what our stances are on these issues”. Interim findings: So what was established by them for now is that a) agressive/active players aren't scum (I mean, why would they be, they could lurk around which is easier!) so both of them can't be scum, right? b) They were attacking each other (kind of). So they can’t be scumbuddies, right? Why would they do so. c) Everytime it’s “us” or “we”. Aren’t they nice buddies? d) They talk about Sciberia. Not Sciberbia. 2. The Interlude + Show Spoiler + I join the table (and you will all now know my flip) and I find it kind of interesting what I read from them, but couldn’t see through it at that point. I ask Mordanis out about some of his points (just to start my day basically) about “him and Golden” etc. Golden answers me very politely, Sciberbia also joins and we are all (the others more than me I have to admit) talking about each others opinions etc., Solstice focusses Miltonkram etc. ShiaoPI weighs in, good vibes. When Golden calls him out, Release answers with an example from an earlier game (please remember the “earlier game” stuff), while he earlier stated (right in the beginning): “Also, why are you talking about the last game? You should be more concerned with this … This seems more like filler.” I agree with you. Filler here. Release also answers to Mordanis post from earlier, where Mordanis asked “When do you think we need to start panicking?” (Mordanis quickly adds that he means “this question for everyone”. Glad you added this) Release points out that “we need more information”. And answering to solistices post : “people need to post more”. Activity!! Sciberbia calls milton out, I mention releases posts (look at my original post!), also saying that “you have your points that I can agree with and you definitely contribute”. I also added that Mordanis also stated that he (Release) was aggressive earlier (this was merely to be careful not to be called someone who copies stuff from others). At that point, I wanted to clarify why the both of them seemed so close. That was aggressive, yes, but before that I still believed in a strong but maybe accidental coincidence. I hoped to get at least one of them talking. Since I wasn’t sure (and a little excited, my first mafia yeah!), I also critizised ShiaoPi for his posting, others added to this. In the end, I was satisfied with what he said in defense, I had (and have) a strong town read on him and told him that, when suddently… 3. … the enfants terrible entered the room again! + Show Spoiler + Mordanis starts with a red “hegeo”. Uh, uh, I am screwed. He defends himself by accusing me of suspicious posting times (I already made mincemeat of his arguments, now I don't have to repeat them). AND he also defends his best buddy Release (the whole “chastens Release“ stuff), and I make him very angry because I remind him of his post in the beginning (where he said agressiveness could make someone look scummy). He says my analysis is bad. If you think so, Release- but I got what I wanted. Sciberbia asks Mordanis what he thinks about my posts on shiaopi. I assume Mordanis didn’t read them (only the two about himself and his scumbuddy). So he states “I was actually ignoring them on purpose”. Releases’s entrance: A post, direct accusation, nothing else! At that time, I smelled scum. I pointed it out: “Wow, release and mordanis coming back at the same time!“ They didn’t care to answer (after all 40mins between their posts, could have made me look bad here). After seeing how I made them angry, no comment on this?? For your own protection I suppose. Release called me a liar, (he bolded it to make sure everybody sees it!) and said he had no other option than to “##Vote: Hegeo” And then this wonderful gem: He thinks 3 mafia are in this game? (See how he bolded these numbers? Give it a quick glance how much text he has bolded overall. He stated way more important stuff without ever bolding it.) NP, his buddy helps him out, with a smiley, citing the first page of the thread. 3mins (!) after Releases post, this answer is posted. He must have read all of Releases post, searched for the first page etc. I think, if you try to read Releases post directly after he posted it (so basically 15 secs after the post), can you read everything critically to this point AND see his mistake AND care about it more than about his points against me AND go to the frontpage AND quote AND add a little smiley face AND post it? Nice try. Also, NO interaction between those two in thread! No “hello”, I think hegeo is stupid what do you think? They are just silently working together as the tag team they are, trying to keep the pressure up. (Release also says he will post an analysis of my post on ShiaoPi, maybe Mordanis reminded him to do so to make it less obvious…btw Release doesn’t deliver at all in this context) 4. Here comes the heat + Show Spoiler + Sciberbia is active during this period (while I was preparing my answers) to ask the terrible twins about their opinions. He also claims that he didn’t “find [Mordanis points on me] very inciminating”. Time for R&M to act! Sciberia is dangerous, we need to isolate hegeo and make Sciberia stop! (At the same time, ShiaoPi answers to my post. So much to read and write for me!) Lot’s of cross-talk between people now, everybody asking everybody else (starting at May 23 2012 06:11) about opinions etc. I’m still writing. So Mordanis calls “Sciberia” [sic!] out, telling him “this is not a very high level game” and that he should “Compare [his-Mordanis] post to Hegeo's accusation of ShiaoPi.” Do you really want people to do so, Mordanis? Sciberbia refuses to take a hit for being called “passive-aggressive”, manning up. Asking others on opinions about me. And why shouldn’t he? Mordanis is fluffing around, no quality posts whatsoever. When Sciberbia doesn’t stop, Mordanis cites one of his older games as reason (quoting ShiaoPis post on me only being weird but most likely not scum): “Perhaps I am biased, but in my last game I read one player as an illogical townie, and he turned out to be mafia. This was embarrasing, but I read part of the scum QT, and all of the scum laughed at me for that read.” Funny. Your point? – We come back to that later. But wait - didn’t Release mention earlier that he didn’t like people talk about older games and critizised Mordanis for it,.. but wait, didn’t he himself talk about them as a basis of how to play? Still no cross-talk (reread the timeframe I mention! Compare what others do!) between R&M. I answer to Mordanis (I worked hard to show his lack of content etc and structured it the best I could, reread it), later also to ShiaoPi. Note that Shiao has a fairly logical stand towards me, he is not angry although I really may have sounded mean to him. Mordanis comment on my post: “Wow, so much anger. …I am actually a bit angry about Hegeo's response and the game in general, so I'm gonna take a bit of time off before coming back. “ So he goes away for a… no wait! He posts 5 minutes later that “On second thought, that was not as angry as I thought. Still, its time to take a breather.” Then he goes. Had to talk to Release I suppose, sadly not in our thread. Let me remind you again, they are freaking angry at me (well, I don’t really think they are, but not to shabby acting there). Wait… did you say “they are angry”? We only see Mordanis’s post…Well: Release joins the table (departure angry Mordanis, entrance angry Release again-May 23 2012 07:59) and gets insta-mad at Sciberbia and does his “##FOS: Sciberia”-Stuff. Oh, quite funny, “Sciberia” again. Why can’t the both of you (and ONLY the both of you) write his name correctly? Like in “NEVER EVER” (Well, release writes “Sciberbia” once in the beginning. Mordanis even before game start omits the “b”. Quite the influence Mordanis has on you Release, no?) He calls Sciberbias post “WIFOM”. Where have we read this term the last time… let me see…ahh yes, Mordanis said it to me. And Release earlier to Sciberbia in the beginning. (Later on, Sciberbia will cite this term only to defend himself when called on WIFOMing, no one else uses it) And the best part of his post: “Still, hegeo seemed much worse about his response to my post than you are to mordanis.”?? - Well did I mention they kind of care for each other? While Mordanis states earlier that “Also, I think that we should stop defending for other people.”( May 23 2012 07:01) Mordanis never calls Release out on that, nor does he thank him for his help. No comment. Ever. No exchange of reads. Nothing. 6. So, I mean you should get my point by now, but I will procede... + Show Spoiler + To remind you where we stand: Two “angry” scumbuddies try to suffocate everybody else, taking turns on targeting the more active/aggressive players towards them (well, one is only lurking right now, but the other one fights for two). Release gets mad at me not posting (while I said I would need time, and I answered to Mordanis and ShiaoPi in the meantime with pretty long posts. Remember, this is not my mother tongue, I need time to write stuff) He repeats “The longer you wait to respond to my post the more scummy you appear. Respond soon if not now!” which reminds me of his earlier “be warned”. Uh oh. Why don’t you ask Mordanis about his reads on people in the meantime, or at least commiserate in this thread with your angry buddy? I mean, my passive-aggressiveness made him so angry, why don’t you say a word when he gets out because he needs to calm down? Oh wait, you do. Kind of. You attack me again for what you state “misquoting” Mordanis words on you in the beginning (May I post out, that you at that point seem to have read my post from 80mins ago): ”But again you take Mordanis's quote (like you did with mine) way out of context. Mordanis said that at the start after my double FOS very early in the game. I changed, he acknowledged, but you are trying to create an illusion that this hasn't happened. (May 23 2012 08:31)” You changed? Right before that, in that very post, you ask me “Wtf is this shit?” I can find scumminess in virtually every post that you've made so far. Oh wait, this is what you said about me. So I have to quote it: “I can find scumminess in virtually every post that you've made so far.” Sorry. And he repeats himself again on that I have to post now or I am scum. Release, you seemed pretty convinced I was scum (fellow townies, you see how I flip(ed)- don’t know when you read it), you didn’t give me ANY benefit of the doubt. I granted it to you, ShiaoPi and Mordanis (again, reread my posts). You saw me as an easy target. And I was. Then I post my answer to Release (while he attacks sciberbia again, mentioning “WIFOM”). I wont elaborate on that. Read what I said. In his “answer", this sentence here is nice btw: Quoting my post (“It seems as though you either just want to stir up anything you can…” [read original for full context) he answers “That bolded part is the most ridiculous crap I've ever heard.” Here I just rephrased your buddy btw: He said (May 22 2012 15:08) “I’ll trust that you are just trying to get things stirred up.” And at last, your standard ceterum censeo: “this is WIFOM territory”. Townies, reread his posts. That brings us to the “end” of this action packed night. 7. The aftermath + Show Spoiler + Two angry scummies. And just to remind everybody that I am a threat to town, I will quote Release: “Since we are closing in on the Night post, we have a few things to decide: Which case is more important: The Solstice/ShiaoPi/Milton or the Hegeo case?” And one sentence later: “After Hegeo's lynch, you two are going to come under increasing pressure…” Or to paraphrase your intentions: Hey all, we need to kill him. He is a threat to…well, at least me and Mordanis. You know how I flipped. You know who never EVER questioned wether he was right in my case (not before I was No.1 lynch target). I started my day voting for Mufaa (Milton did it earlier without comments by our scummies, I did it just to see wether my scummy friends are still awake). And look who’s coming at me again! Release: “i think we can all agree that Hegeo is begging to get lynched.” “place a vote on Hegeo.” (he also notes: Funny: You wake up when i go to sleep.” – I posted at 7:50AM of my time after rereading parts of the thread. I went to bed 2AMish. A classical 0 content post) See how safe he felt! He calls me scummy for voting Mufaa (I mean, come on, at least I didn’t do this “FOS her FOS there, FOS everywhere stuff”. Even marv is laughing about it.) And… Entrance Mordanis again, being apologetic for getting angry… whatever (Mordanis, if you’re serious and /outofgame here, I appreciate it). But then, you have to mention your best buddy again: “And finally, I think that Release has pretty much posted a refutation of your rebuttal.” Before your closing remarks on my emotions (how poetic, “on emotion”), I will quote them in full length: “Hegeo's play seems to be ruled by emotion. This is exactly why I waited until I could be rational and logical before posting. I may have overestimated the amount of anger in this post, but I still believe there is a fair amount. Whether this leads to him being scummy or not is hard to say, but the atmosphere of emotion may have contributed to the lack of posting in the previous hours.” To quote you on that topic when answering ShiaoPi (May 23 2012 07:01) “...,my pride is seeking revenge for the scum disguised as illogical townie.” Your pride and revenge? As in emotionally motivated? And finally, “I'm nervous about not lynching because people are afraid to jump on a bandwagon so early, so I'll vote now. I will however vote for whomever we can muster a majority for. ##Vote: hegeo” What I would like you to do + Show Spoiler + Fellow townies. I worked on my case instead of being in thread the last hours (sorry for that, but if I die today defending myself against scum and you, the evidence I have gets lost). Sorry for not contributing today. As you may see from this, my reads on other people are not anti-town at least, mostly green. (Well Mufaa…) You see/saw how I flipped. I admit I could have played better. But after understanding, that I didn’t only hit one but the two scumbuddies at the same time (that also chose a very aggressive stance in this game), the game was basically already over for me, when I don’t get lynched I’ll die quickly afterwards though. I tried to make my points as you can see, there are also numerous smaller things that could be a coincidence once, but 30 coincidences? Really? I tried to find them for anybody else, drew a network diagram who interacted etc. Do it and you see what I see (if you are not convinced). I hope you consider lynching at least one of them on D2. They will try to tell you that there was “so much evidence” and what not, that I was aggressive, that they realized that there were other cases also later on and were to focussed on me because I called them out, how could they have known that, they will try to prove to you that they are town yadayada. They started putting votes on me. They only interacted in thread when universalities were discussed in the beginning and pressured each other in the beginning with a slight tickle. Contradictions en masse. Tag-teaming. Wording. Feelings. Pressuring. Pushing cases no matter what, agressively. See how they pushed their case. Their ONLY case (until it was sure I would be killed) Look at what I wrote. Reread it. It cost me many hours. If one of them flips scum, kill the other. Question their intentions towards each other, ask them to point out what the other did wrong. Force errors. Make them sweat. Look at how they behave in the near future.Don't let them pick on single points. Dear Mordanis and Release Hopefully, I can read your QT in a while. If you are just two townies, I nominated you for best tag-team ever, you get on like a house on fire. It’s so obvious I doubted my read in the beginning. Disclaimer: I never was really angry or whatever towards anybody, I merely wanted to state that. It’s a game. I hope my read is correct, and that you understand why I had to work on that case rather than having futile discussions (imo) in thread The way mordanis and release have responded to this post one at a time just seems to lend weight to the accusation. In a majority lynch situation I'd expect to find both mafia as votes for the lynch. Especially with how close it came to being a no lynch. As far as myself goes, I dont think anyone suspected mufaa of anything other than lurking and clearly it went beyond lurking to ignoring the game. I'll be contributing to the thread more after the day post so no one should have similar issues about me. | ||
|
Release
United States4397 Posts
On May 24 2012 14:06 skware wrote: The way mordanis and release have responded to this post one at a time just seems to lend weight to the accusation. In a majority lynch situation I'd expect to find both mafia as votes for the lynch. Especially with how close it came to being a no lynch. As far as myself goes, I dont think anyone suspected mufaa of anything other than lurking and clearly it went beyond lurking to ignoring the game. I'll be contributing to the thread more after the day post so no one should have similar issues about me. Busy with real life. I didn't even get in before the night post. Believe it or don't believe it. | ||
|
Release
United States4397 Posts
I didn't get mad at you. Stop putting feelings? in my mouth. I was stating a fact that delaying your post was never going to look good. I don't ask Mordanis because he just gave a pretty analytical post against you. No need to ask for something which is already there. I don't blame him, you seemed scummiest at the time of posting. Am i not allowed to answer to a post from 80min ago? Should i completely ignore that? You seem to want me to avoid reading that when it was one of your key scummy posts. Benefit of the doubt is what lets mafia get away with being townie, or at least avoiding a lynch. I didn't give you benefit of the doubt because i didn't see any reason to let such a scummy player get away with his life. I did, however, give plenty to milton, because your play was far more scummy than his play. The attack on sciberia was to get him to be more useful. WIFOM is a waste of time and i stand by that. 7. aftermath: I never questioned whether i was right or not because you gave me absolutely no reason to. The cases that you wrote didn't substantiate to anything useful. Your case on ShiaoPi was nice in trying to divide the town's intention though. I feel safe? It's the same as any other "i'm busy" posts or "i have to do something." Mine isn't special. Mufaa was a lurker who obviously wasn't doing anything and having a vote on him is solely to go for a no-lynch which has already been deemed as a waste of a day. Keeping your vote their makes you seem scummy. I'll defend Mordanis in spoilers, but really, this is an attack on your reasoning: + Show Spoiler + stop taking things out of context. He posted the pride thing, THEN posted "i waited." Not completely townie but not exactly scummy either. [8] What i would...: Just because we happen to lynch a townie (if that's what you were, we didn't know), that's not to say that we should be lynched. We should be inspected and roasted, but given a chance to defend. I started putting votes on you. I put a vote on you long before anyone else did because i was so certain. Mordanis probably read my post and responded. Now that that is done i have a few VERY important things to say _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ __ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ __ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ __ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ I have absolutely no reason why i should have to defend myself. I have posted analysis, i have made solid cases. These cases have not been disputed which means to say that i have been telling the truth. If you think i'm then look through my filter, point out my flaws, and build a case against me. Also, i will be looking into Mordanis to see if his actions are motivated by town/scum. He may have been preying on my case against Hegeo because he knew hegeo wasn't mafia, but i cannot say this with conviction until i have checked again. This brings me to my next point: We still have a nice a solid case against Milton. I think this is where we should head next (granted that there is not significant case against Mordanis or I). Also, i want everyone to take a close look at the bandwagon that formed right before Hegeo's death. My vote was the first, Mordanis followed, then a rapid outpouring of votes starting with milton. Milton claims - "there is at least a small chance of him being mafia." to subtly claim that he is townie with no real evidence. Solstice - appears to want a lynch. Votes for his previous posts. Sciberia - has suspicion on both. Seems to vote because Hegeo has not posted yet. Asks for more votes after majority, which i find a little strange. If we do see a sudden change of heart, we know who is scum. ShiaoPi - votes because sciberia said so. Still claims more scumminess from Milton. Thinks for himself, which is more than i can say for a good portion of you. Hegeo - Mordanis. Tries to intercept the bandwagon 5 minutes pre-night post. Didn't dissuade the bandwagon. So, what i get from this is that Sciberia and Mordanis have a little explaining to do. I already mentioned Mordanis above, but ill mention him again, he seemed to be content with following me. Sciberia seemed to be content to lynch Hegeo for the sake of a majority. People really need to start thinking themselves. This i congratualte ShiaoPi on and insist that you keep thinking for oyurself. Night, and i hope to read something useful by morning. | ||
|
Release
United States4397 Posts
| ||
|
Mordanis
United States893 Posts
+ Show Spoiler [Prologue] + First off, we lynched Hegeo because he was terrible as a townie. Some of the mistakes he made were novice mistakes (such as not refreshing the thread before posting, and not paying attention while everyone slowly formed up to lynch him), but one main point still stands: none of his analysis was breathtaking or deep. His only analysis before this was a few accusatory points towards several players, and since he cannot have been right on all counts I think we can only treat this as analysis done by a confirmed townie. Nothing more. Nothing less. + Show Spoiler [Confusion] + WTF? Probably my main reason for pushing his lynch was that he didn't make sense. And all the while while I try to come up for an explanation of why he has been silent, he's been working up a gigantic case against me and Release. But to do that he must have been looking in the thread to copy and paste. You'd think he would have looked at the new stuff at any point. Or at least not ignore the last 24 hours of the first day cycle. I'm still trying to figure out what the heck he was thinking at any point. I'm certainly not entirely sure how people can react to this without accounting for the fact that the last 14 hours of his play made absolutely no sense. I'm especially sad to see a medic out, but I just can't really understand what he was doing. + Show Spoiler [Emotion] + My first responses to his accusation were influenced by emotion. I cannot tell why, but for some reason Hegeo just seemed to strike a chord in me. It happened earlier, and I posted badly for a while until I cooled down back then. Perhaps this goes with the confusion about his play, I cannot really say. All I can say is that I should be more emotionally stable from now on. That being said, I still stand by the content of my earlier posts (really only that his comment about Release and I staying seperated was a complete falsehood). + Show Spoiler [Point by Point Refutation] + This is as much an exercise in controlling my emotions as anything else. Also, I will only argue with verifiable/falsifiable facts, so it is more of a fact check than a point-by-point refutation. Anyways, here is his post + Show Spoiler + On May 24 2012 08:21 hegeo wrote: What I post now is in contrast to what I stated before, namely that I said I had no strong scumread. Truth is, I have. You will see/saw how I flipped. I apologize for playing bad or not optimal, but all I want is to win. And I win with town, wether I’m dead or alive. Since I’m about to get lynched (or shot at night for that matter if I'm correct), I present to you evidence for a scum team, that seemingly decided to play this game not as lurkers, but the direct opposite. I’m not trying to defend myself here, I accuse. I urge you to reread my posts and all the others I quoted if you really want to go into detail here. It will take more time than you have until deadline. I understand. I worked as quick as I can. The bold/italics for orientation only. There are also important points I couldn't highlight anymore. The beautiful scum duo Release and Mordanis 1. The Start + Show Spoiler + They started the day with a wonderful pas de deux before the thread really started of. Release was the attacking part quickly ##FOSing Mordanis for his first post, also critizising Sciberbia for a question "myself and Mordanis" already answered and calls it “WIFOM” (remember that word please!). Nice. Mordanis then said he was "glad for your early FOS", but told him to be "slightly more trusting" and that he was "very, very" aggressive (also citing a very nice opinion form Artanis: "Artanis, a player whom I trust, wrote that mafia are rarely aggresive. […] So please stop with the extreme distrust for a while, and wait for a little while while everyone analyzes what we've just written." We've written? He also answered very shortly to the question “Sciberia” asked. Sciberia [sic]? But more on that later. Release then answered “I understand your post so for now: unFOS: Mordanis”. Nice and easy. Release asks Mordanis about his opinion on Sciberia’s [sic!] post then, Mordanis replies “he asks us what our stances are on these issues”. Interim findings: So what was established by them for now is that a) agressive/active players aren't scum (I mean, why would they be, they could lurk around which is easier!) so both of them can't be scum, right? b) They were attacking each other (kind of). So they can’t be scumbuddies, right? Why would they do so. c) Everytime it’s “us” or “we”. Aren’t they nice buddies? d) They talk about Sciberia. Not Sciberbia. 2. The Interlude + Show Spoiler + I join the table (and you will all now know my flip) and I find it kind of interesting what I read from them, but couldn’t see through it at that point. I ask Mordanis out about some of his points (just to start my day basically) about “him and Golden” etc. Golden answers me very politely, Sciberbia also joins and we are all (the others more than me I have to admit) talking about each others opinions etc., Solstice focusses Miltonkram etc. ShiaoPI weighs in, good vibes. When Golden calls him out, Release answers with an example from an earlier game (please remember the “earlier game” stuff), while he earlier stated (right in the beginning): “Also, why are you talking about the last game? You should be more concerned with this … This seems more like filler.” I agree with you. Filler here. Release also answers to Mordanis post from earlier, where Mordanis asked “When do you think we need to start panicking?” (Mordanis quickly adds that he means “this question for everyone”. Glad you added this) Release points out that “we need more information”. And answering to solistices post : “people need to post more”. Activity!! Sciberbia calls milton out, I mention releases posts (look at my original post!), also saying that “you have your points that I can agree with and you definitely contribute”. I also added that Mordanis also stated that he (Release) was aggressive earlier (this was merely to be careful not to be called someone who copies stuff from others). At that point, I wanted to clarify why the both of them seemed so close. That was aggressive, yes, but before that I still believed in a strong but maybe accidental coincidence. I hoped to get at least one of them talking. Since I wasn’t sure (and a little excited, my first mafia yeah!), I also critizised ShiaoPi for his posting, others added to this. In the end, I was satisfied with what he said in defense, I had (and have) a strong town read on him and told him that, when suddently… 3. … the enfants terrible entered the room again! + Show Spoiler + Mordanis starts with a red “hegeo”. Uh, uh, I am screwed. He defends himself by accusing me of suspicious posting times (I already made mincemeat of his arguments, now I don't have to repeat them). AND he also defends his best buddy Release (the whole “chastens Release“ stuff), and I make him very angry because I remind him of his post in the beginning (where he said agressiveness could make someone look scummy). He says my analysis is bad. If you think so, Release- but I got what I wanted. Sciberbia asks Mordanis what he thinks about my posts on shiaopi. I assume Mordanis didn’t read them (only the two about himself and his scumbuddy). So he states “I was actually ignoring them on purpose”. Releases’s entrance: A post, direct accusation, nothing else! At that time, I smelled scum. I pointed it out: “Wow, release and mordanis coming back at the same time!“ They didn’t care to answer (after all 40mins between their posts, could have made me look bad here). After seeing how I made them angry, no comment on this?? For your own protection I suppose. Release called me a liar, (he bolded it to make sure everybody sees it!) and said he had no other option than to “##Vote: Hegeo” And then this wonderful gem: He thinks 3 mafia are in this game? (See how he bolded these numbers? Give it a quick glance how much text he has bolded overall. He stated way more important stuff without ever bolding it.) NP, his buddy helps him out, with a smiley, citing the first page of the thread. 3mins (!) after Releases post, this answer is posted. He must have read all of Releases post, searched for the first page etc. I think, if you try to read Releases post directly after he posted it (so basically 15 secs after the post), can you read everything critically to this point AND see his mistake AND care about it more than about his points against me AND go to the frontpage AND quote AND add a little smiley face AND post it? Nice try. Also, NO interaction between those two in thread! No “hello”, I think hegeo is stupid what do you think? They are just silently working together as the tag team they are, trying to keep the pressure up. (Release also says he will post an analysis of my post on ShiaoPi, maybe Mordanis reminded him to do so to make it less obvious…btw Release doesn’t deliver at all in this context) 4. Here comes the heat + Show Spoiler + Sciberbia is active during this period (while I was preparing my answers) to ask the terrible twins about their opinions. He also claims that he didn’t “find [Mordanis points on me] very inciminating”. Time for R&M to act! Sciberia is dangerous, we need to isolate hegeo and make Sciberia stop! (At the same time, ShiaoPi answers to my post. So much to read and write for me!) Lot’s of cross-talk between people now, everybody asking everybody else (starting at May 23 2012 06:11) about opinions etc. I’m still writing. So Mordanis calls “Sciberia” [sic!] out, telling him “this is not a very high level game” and that he should “Compare [his-Mordanis] post to Hegeo's accusation of ShiaoPi.” Do you really want people to do so, Mordanis? Sciberbia refuses to take a hit for being called “passive-aggressive”, manning up. Asking others on opinions about me. And why shouldn’t he? Mordanis is fluffing around, no quality posts whatsoever. When Sciberbia doesn’t stop, Mordanis cites one of his older games as reason (quoting ShiaoPis post on me only being weird but most likely not scum): “Perhaps I am biased, but in my last game I read one player as an illogical townie, and he turned out to be mafia. This was embarrasing, but I read part of the scum QT, and all of the scum laughed at me for that read.” Funny. Your point? – We come back to that later. But wait - didn’t Release mention earlier that he didn’t like people talk about older games and critizised Mordanis for it,.. but wait, didn’t he himself talk about them as a basis of how to play? Still no cross-talk (reread the timeframe I mention! Compare what others do!) between R&M. I answer to Mordanis (I worked hard to show his lack of content etc and structured it the best I could, reread it), later also to ShiaoPi. Note that Shiao has a fairly logical stand towards me, he is not angry although I really may have sounded mean to him. Mordanis comment on my post: “Wow, so much anger. …I am actually a bit angry about Hegeo's response and the game in general, so I'm gonna take a bit of time off before coming back. “ So he goes away for a… no wait! He posts 5 minutes later that “On second thought, that was not as angry as I thought. Still, its time to take a breather.” Then he goes. Had to talk to Release I suppose, sadly not in our thread. Let me remind you again, they are freaking angry at me (well, I don’t really think they are, but not to shabby acting there). Wait… did you say “they are angry”? We only see Mordanis’s post…Well: Release joins the table (departure angry Mordanis, entrance angry Release again-May 23 2012 07:59) and gets insta-mad at Sciberbia and does his “##FOS: Sciberia”-Stuff. Oh, quite funny, “Sciberia” again. Why can’t the both of you (and ONLY the both of you) write his name correctly? Like in “NEVER EVER” (Well, release writes “Sciberbia” once in the beginning. Mordanis even before game start omits the “b”. Quite the influence Mordanis has on you Release, no?) He calls Sciberbias post “WIFOM”. Where have we read this term the last time… let me see…ahh yes, Mordanis said it to me. And Release earlier to Sciberbia in the beginning. (Later on, Sciberbia will cite this term only to defend himself when called on WIFOMing, no one else uses it) And the best part of his post: “Still, hegeo seemed much worse about his response to my post than you are to mordanis.”?? - Well did I mention they kind of care for each other? While Mordanis states earlier that “Also, I think that we should stop defending for other people.”( May 23 2012 07:01) Mordanis never calls Release out on that, nor does he thank him for his help. No comment. Ever. No exchange of reads. Nothing. 6. So, I mean you should get my point by now, but I will procede... + Show Spoiler + To remind you where we stand: Two “angry” scumbuddies try to suffocate everybody else, taking turns on targeting the more active/aggressive players towards them (well, one is only lurking right now, but the other one fights for two). Release gets mad at me not posting (while I said I would need time, and I answered to Mordanis and ShiaoPi in the meantime with pretty long posts. Remember, this is not my mother tongue, I need time to write stuff) He repeats “The longer you wait to respond to my post the more scummy you appear. Respond soon if not now!” which reminds me of his earlier “be warned”. Uh oh. Why don’t you ask Mordanis about his reads on people in the meantime, or at least commiserate in this thread with your angry buddy? I mean, my passive-aggressiveness made him so angry, why don’t you say a word when he gets out because he needs to calm down? Oh wait, you do. Kind of. You attack me again for what you state “misquoting” Mordanis words on you in the beginning (May I post out, that you at that point seem to have read my post from 80mins ago): ”But again you take Mordanis's quote (like you did with mine) way out of context. Mordanis said that at the start after my double FOS very early in the game. I changed, he acknowledged, but you are trying to create an illusion that this hasn't happened. (May 23 2012 08:31)” You changed? Right before that, in that very post, you ask me “Wtf is this shit?” I can find scumminess in virtually every post that you've made so far. Oh wait, this is what you said about me. So I have to quote it: “I can find scumminess in virtually every post that you've made so far.” Sorry. And he repeats himself again on that I have to post now or I am scum. Release, you seemed pretty convinced I was scum (fellow townies, you see how I flip(ed)- don’t know when you read it), you didn’t give me ANY benefit of the doubt. I granted it to you, ShiaoPi and Mordanis (again, reread my posts). You saw me as an easy target. And I was. Then I post my answer to Release (while he attacks sciberbia again, mentioning “WIFOM”). I wont elaborate on that. Read what I said. In his “answer", this sentence here is nice btw: Quoting my post (“It seems as though you either just want to stir up anything you can…” [read original for full context) he answers “That bolded part is the most ridiculous crap I've ever heard.” Here I just rephrased your buddy btw: He said (May 22 2012 15:08) “I’ll trust that you are just trying to get things stirred up.” And at last, your standard ceterum censeo: “this is WIFOM territory”. Townies, reread his posts. That brings us to the “end” of this action packed night. 7. The aftermath + Show Spoiler + Two angry scummies. And just to remind everybody that I am a threat to town, I will quote Release: “Since we are closing in on the Night post, we have a few things to decide: Which case is more important: The Solstice/ShiaoPi/Milton or the Hegeo case?” And one sentence later: “After Hegeo's lynch, you two are going to come under increasing pressure…” Or to paraphrase your intentions: Hey all, we need to kill him. He is a threat to…well, at least me and Mordanis. You know how I flipped. You know who never EVER questioned wether he was right in my case (not before I was No.1 lynch target). I started my day voting for Mufaa (Milton did it earlier without comments by our scummies, I did it just to see wether my scummy friends are still awake). And look who’s coming at me again! Release: “i think we can all agree that Hegeo is begging to get lynched.” “place a vote on Hegeo.” (he also notes: Funny: You wake up when i go to sleep.” – I posted at 7:50AM of my time after rereading parts of the thread. I went to bed 2AMish. A classical 0 content post) See how safe he felt! He calls me scummy for voting Mufaa (I mean, come on, at least I didn’t do this “FOS her FOS there, FOS everywhere stuff”. Even marv is laughing about it.) And… Entrance Mordanis again, being apologetic for getting angry… whatever (Mordanis, if you’re serious and /outofgame here, I appreciate it). But then, you have to mention your best buddy again: “And finally, I think that Release has pretty much posted a refutation of your rebuttal.” Before your closing remarks on my emotions (how poetic, “on emotion”), I will quote them in full length: “Hegeo's play seems to be ruled by emotion. This is exactly why I waited until I could be rational and logical before posting. I may have overestimated the amount of anger in this post, but I still believe there is a fair amount. Whether this leads to him being scummy or not is hard to say, but the atmosphere of emotion may have contributed to the lack of posting in the previous hours.” To quote you on that topic when answering ShiaoPi (May 23 2012 07:01) “...,my pride is seeking revenge for the scum disguised as illogical townie.” Your pride and revenge? As in emotionally motivated? And finally, “I'm nervous about not lynching because people are afraid to jump on a bandwagon so early, so I'll vote now. I will however vote for whomever we can muster a majority for. ##Vote: hegeo” What I would like you to do + Show Spoiler + Fellow townies. I worked on my case instead of being in thread the last hours (sorry for that, but if I die today defending myself against scum and you, the evidence I have gets lost). Sorry for not contributing today. As you may see from this, my reads on other people are not anti-town at least, mostly green. (Well Mufaa…) You see/saw how I flipped. I admit I could have played better. But after understanding, that I didn’t only hit one but the two scumbuddies at the same time (that also chose a very aggressive stance in this game), the game was basically already over for me, when I don’t get lynched I’ll die quickly afterwards though. I tried to make my points as you can see, there are also numerous smaller things that could be a coincidence once, but 30 coincidences? Really? I tried to find them for anybody else, drew a network diagram who interacted etc. Do it and you see what I see (if you are not convinced). I hope you consider lynching at least one of them on D2. They will try to tell you that there was “so much evidence” and what not, that I was aggressive, that they realized that there were other cases also later on and were to focussed on me because I called them out, how could they have known that, they will try to prove to you that they are town yadayada. They started putting votes on me. They only interacted in thread when universalities were discussed in the beginning and pressured each other in the beginning with a slight tickle. Contradictions en masse. Tag-teaming. Wording. Feelings. Pressuring. Pushing cases no matter what, agressively. See how they pushed their case. Their ONLY case (until it was sure I would be killed) Look at what I wrote. Reread it. It cost me many hours. If one of them flips scum, kill the other. Question their intentions towards each other, ask them to point out what the other did wrong. Force errors. Make them sweat. Look at how they behave in the near future.Don't let them pick on single points. Dear Mordanis and Release Hopefully, I can read your QT in a while. If you are just two townies, I nominated you for best tag-team ever, you get on like a house on fire. It’s so obvious I doubted my read in the beginning. Disclaimer: I never was really angry or whatever towards anybody, I merely wanted to state that. It’s a game. I hope my read is correct, and that you understand why I had to work on that case rather than having futile discussions (imo) in thread In his first section, he says that we were a dance for two in the beginning. Did he completely ignore the fact that Sciberbia was just as involved as Release and I (I actually greatly prefer the sound of "sciberia" in my head to "sciberbia", so if its ok with you I'll just go with that from now on)? Also, his only real suspicion derived from the opening sequence is that Release and I were the first active participants. In the second section, he doesn't really post any suspicious behavior. He only implies that our play is similar. Again, there is no evidence. There really isn't anything to talk about. In the third section (I laughed when I saw him mock my use of the red to accuse him when he accused me), comes the real meat of his argument. He believes that Release and I are scum because ...... we both accused him of scummy behavior. And then he states that thing about us not interacting. I also didn't interact with Mufaa, or Sciberia, or Milton when I posted my case on him. I see no reason to, its an appeal to emotion that doesn't help anything. As another example, try to find an instance of the people who were working on a case against Milton (or to a lesser extent ShiaoPi) directly talking to each other. I don't get what that is supposed to mean x.x The fourth section is quite possibly the strangest logic I've ever read. Again, he tries to draw attention to how we act similarly by misspelling Sciberia's name and referencing old games. The step from similar play to scum-buddies is what I just can't get though. It seems to go back to the main- that Release and I were the first to vote for him. Also this made me literally laugh out loud (Well, release writes “Sciberbia” once in the beginning. Mordanis even before game start omits the “b”. Quite the influence Mordanis has on you Release, no?) Also we did exchange reads, namely our biggest (and in looking through the thread again, I am even more sure of this) the most logical scum-read.The "fifth" section sees little improvement in logic. The only things that could be construed as facts in this section are his claim that Hegeo had correctly understood one of my earlier posts and did not take it out of context. He says that I flip-flopped in regards to my view of aggressiveness. It just ain't so! The first line of the post Hegeo talks about is this : First off, let me say that I'm glad for your early FOS. I was trying to think of a way to get the ball rolling and I just couldn't figure out how to do it. Let me try to clear up any confusion now though ^^ . I think its quite obvious that I approved of his early game aggression to begin with, but that I think he went overboard when (in the same post) I later wrote Also, Release: You're being very aggresive. Very agressive. I understand the need to get the scumhunt going as quickly as possible, but you've placed the only two players who have posted content under suspicion. I think this discourages people from posting content. Artanis, a player whom I trust, wrote that mafia are rarely aggresive. Based on that, I'll trust that you are just trying to get things stirred up. I just think that you're going overboard. We need to get the ball rolling, but we also need people to talk. So please stop with the extreme distrust for a while, and wait for a little while while everyone analyzes what we've just written. Also, I'd be very happy if you would be so kind as to explain to the rest of us why you're being so aggressive. If you really are town, then tell us, and trust us to be rational. If you're not, well you're certainly attracting a lot of attention. .In the "seventh" section, he catches my weakness. I did allow emotion to rule my play. He correctly spots that I let my pride and need for the feeling of righteous vengeance to cloud my judgement on him. This was a mistake. I will do my best to learn from it and grow. And the "8th" section (If you read this, hegeo, I'm only doing quotations in remembrance of your insistance that Release and I are scum-buddies because we both spelled Sciberia's name wrong), is just him trying to manipulate the town after his death. + Show Spoiler [Subjective Reaction To Hegeo's P…] + Hegeo's conclusion is obviously that Release and I are both scum. Here I try to find out how he came to that conclusion. He seemed to put a great store of importance in the fact that Release and I were fairly similar (in spellings, references to previous games, and aggression/activity). Again, I'm really trying to find out any link between the two, but I just can't. Milton and ShiaoPi have been playing similarly as well, but he didn't see them as scum. So what was the difference between them and Release and me? The only thing that I can think of is that we accused him. I agree that it is suspicious to be the first to accuse someone who flips town, but this is a risk that must be taken for town. If I were one of only two mafia, there's no way in hell I'd risk one, let alone both mafia get caught on D1. Overall, I see no reason to see the similarities between Release and me as damning proof that we are the entire contingency of scum for the entire game. Frankly, I am a bit worried that after just a cursory read people were beginning to believe what Hegeo was saying. We really need to improve our analysis as a town if this is seen as solid. + Show Spoiler [Final Thoughts] + Ok, so I know that with my previous knee-jerk reactions to this post I do seem pretty suspicious. All I ask is that you reread his post and his actions with a fresh mind. Ask yourself if my actions prior to his lynch were suspect or not. Ask yourself if you believe that Hegeo found both scum singlehandedly while letting himself die. Ask if you think my reaction was really that suspicious, in light of a history of Hegeo getting on my nerves. This was a really weird situation, but I don't think it really changes much about what we know, except knowing that one of the townies was really not a very good townie. | ||
|
Mordanis
United States893 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + On May 23 2012 04:05 Mordanis wrote: First off, let me clarify my earlier statement to Release. He was being too frightening, and discouraging posting, so I told him to be slightly more trusting. Since his two FOSs, we've regressed to a community of trust. The way people have been talking, there just seems to be no urgency. I feel slightly responsible for this, so I'll do my best to mend the situation. Hegeo has been very suspicious. To restate what I've already said, he did not post in the first 5 hours (in and of itself harmless), but then posted 5 minutes after someone called him out for not posting. He offered an excuse, but the most obvious explanation is that he was watching the thread, and had a knee-jerk reaction to being called out. To believe he began writing before he was called out, and posted after a few minutes is, frankly, well, let's just say its not a very high order of probability. The next question is why he would watch the thread without posting. I can think of no reason a Townie would do this. Then he posts this + Show Spoiler + On May 22 2012 19:54 hegeo wrote: Do you know more than the rest of us? Why couldn't Golden be mafia (and you)? I kind of agree on the fact that activity creates information, but walls of text (I take it you exaggerated to make your point) don't help automatically. But this was already said earlier, so I wont elaborate on that. Admittedly, it is. But if I really wanted to defend myself at that time (against what I might add?), I would have mentioned the post. Truth is I read Miltonkram's post after I posted mine, from now on I will always refresh the thread before I post then. Then he posts this gem: + Show Spoiler + On May 23 2012 01:29 hegeo wrote: Sciberbia bringing the heat via analysis, I like it. Hey Release, some thoughts about your posts, and why I think you're not always helping town with them: a) Even though I understand where you're coming from, this is kind of pseudo-pressuring people, which is futile in the beginning of the game. This makes for an anti-town-atmosphere, since posting should be encouraged. b) It's not the best case to lynch lurkers, but if they don't contribute to town then it is at least good riddance. c) You are posting at least a considerable amount of non-productive posts right now, e.g. to this post... ... your answer was this: You consistently do this "#FOS"-stuff and then, you FOS Sciberibia... ..before even un##FOSing Mordanis: To answer in your own words: Even though there are many players that have a way shorter filter than you, what you do is generating "noise" (not always, you have your points that I can agree with and you definitely contribute). It seems as though you either just want to stir up anything you can (because both of these #FOSes came to nothing, which would make you a little scummy) or I read it as an overly motivated try to get information. On May 23 2012 01:35 hegeo wrote: EBWOP: I forgot to say that I added the a),b) etc in italics and Mordanis already said that this kind of aggressiveness is not helping + Show Spoiler + (I was merely rephrasing this and putting it into my context). I'm very willing to change my mind, as we aren't even halfway through the first day. That being said, we need to have more and better analysis if we're going to find scum. I think it is wrong to assume that everyone is innocent just as it is wrong to assume everyone is innocent. We need to cultivate a healthy distrust of everyone, but at the same time we need to be able to work together to hunt scum. We need balance. We began too distrustful, we are now too trusting. We must find a middle ground to be successful. + Show Spoiler + On May 23 2012 04:45 Release wrote: Response to a) my point was that contributing useless information is worse than having no contribution at all. My example was Sciberia's asking the same question twice, which has since, been given some clarification. b) Lynching a lurker is not "good riddance". I don't see why a townie should feel that way. Lynching a lurker (if there are more than one) is random to a townie, but clear to the mafia. The mafia will obviously choose the lurker whom is a townie, therefore causing us to mislynch. Advocating a lurker lynch instead of focusing on those who are suspicious is a Mafia's way of thinking. In fact, you don't even list some alternative, despite it not being a best case scenario. c)my answer was this: "My point is that Townies can make mistakes, but townies don't make slips. Mafia make can make mistakes; usually their mistake is to make a slip. I want to make that very clear. We shouldn't end up lynching for a mistake. We should lynch someone who makes a slip." From Newbie II game + Show Spoiler + Probulous got a AKCT lynched. That was a mistake. He was clearly contributing so even though he made a mistake, he shouldn't get lynched. (he didn't) Sheth however, does slip in trying to save his scumbuddy and got lynched for that. this was in support of the above point i made. Your c) and reasoning behind are Blatant Lies; you intentionally leave out my actual point to make it seem like i am posting filler. If i didn't know better, you know that i am town, and see that i am dangerous to your scum motives. You are targeting me with a weak case based on incomplete evidence. In regard to the FOS before unFOS, i did it to show that i was putting both of them under suspicion. There are 3 mafia. I only had 2. Are you seriously trying to convince to to avoid the larger picture and completely ignore anyone (other than the person who i am targeting at the moment) who might be Mafia? The FOS's got people talking. Talking is good for the town. Again, this is an example of where you completely ignore the larger picture. "overly motivated try to get information." All townies want information. After all, we don't know much. You however, seem perfectly content to let this day slip by without extracting a lot of information from it (presumably because you already have the information because you are scum). I see no other option as of yet (or until you reply) but to: ##Vote: Hegeo You'll not that I posted my case on him before Release. How do you reconcile this with your statement that I was "perfectly content to follow you"? | ||
|
Release
United States4397 Posts
I wasn't blaming you. Merely casting suspicion. I know you posted first but I had only read up to hegeo's first post when I started typing my response. Didn't see his second or your post. It's what happens after these posts that gets me though. You use emOtion as reasoning which I don't buy. I think it is a cover up for a lack of analysis and just following the townie who has a strong case against another townie. You posted him in red and considering you didn't have any other solid scum reads, why didn't you vote for him? You sure seemed more content to vote for him after I voted. As it stands now your response to this is crucial to my judgement on you. Night for reals. Staying up way too late. | ||
|
O.Golden_ne
Australia204 Posts
we're really behind now  i'll mull over hegeo's final post before day two, it's really hard to draw links between players so early. but alot of what he has said works out. also Release, i dont think there was much of fiasco at the end of day one. the voting was fairly logical and it didnt seemed too rushed from anyone. people just switched over the the mis-lynch of hegeo. | ||
| ||
|
|
Sparkling Tuna Cup
WardiTV Invitational
Spirit vs SHIN
Clem vs SKillous
herO vs TBD
TBD vs GuMiho
AI Arena 2025 Tournament
Replay Cast
Clem vs Zoun
Wardi Open
Monday Night Weeklies
PiGosaur Monday
Replay Cast
SOOP
SKillous vs Spirit
Tenacious Turtle Tussle
[ Show More ] |
|
|
EPT
