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paschl
Germany666 Posts
 Ill stop the balance talk now since its useless, ive played too little games with setups like this to really give a good oppinion. And there was little scumhunting but everytime you tried to scumhunt Gummy came in, said your case doesnt make sense and continued on his course towards claw. | ||
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Gummy
United States2180 Posts
I incorrectly thought, then, that hunting bad play was equivalent to hunting scum.  | ||
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paschl
Germany666 Posts
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Mattchew
United States5684 Posts
and mementoss has super great analysis and some awesome fluff writing. I got unexpectedly busy (due to the NJ Devils playoff run) So i apologize for cutting off the fluff writing | ||
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BroodKingEXE
United States829 Posts
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FirmTofu
United States1956 Posts
Honestly, I didn't believe Gummy was mafia until I got a guilty on him. Then, I forced myself to rationalize the check and convince everyone else to vote for him. Like everyone was saying, you can't rely on the detective all the time, we've gotta be scumhunting too. Gummy threw me off completely and I never really recovered even though I had Ange high on my scum list day 2. Any tips for me to improve? | ||
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Jitsu
United States929 Posts
Congrats to mafia for the successful win. | ||
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syllogism
Finland5948 Posts
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Ange777
Germany1164 Posts
I wasn't even sure that Tofu would check Gummy instead was afraid I'd get checked that night. Surprisingly it worked. I would love some advice on my play. Thanks! | ||
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Mattchew
United States5684 Posts
On May 09 2012 16:12 syllogism wrote: I don't personally think this setup is good for players who haven't played a single game before, maybe the disclaimer should suggest playing a more standard one first (SNMM). It's difficult for even experienced players to ignore DT checks and this one had a completely useless DT. While learning not to rely on roles is an important lesson, I don't think it is a recipe for a fun game that will keep completely new players interested in mafia. Dt could have checked anyone but 2 people and got a correct read back... The framer could not frame themselves so they still had a chance on n1 finding half the mafia team... 1 mislynch from a scum check would also Prove there to be a framer... If anyone had pushed scum reads and town hadnt mass claimed then town woulda most likely won day 3 Also gm says to not baby the newbs... So I didnt | ||
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syllogism
Finland5948 Posts
On May 09 2012 20:38 Mattchew wrote: Dt could have checked anyone but 2 people and got a correct read back... The framer could not frame themselves so they still had a chance on n1 finding half the mafia kp... 1 mislynch from a scum check would also Prove there to be a framer... If anyone had pushed scum reads and town hadnt mass claimed then town woulda most likely won day 3 It's not a correct check because the target could still be a gf/framed. As soon as a framer flips or actually even earlier when town realizes that there is no roleblocker. Nothing wrong with the setup, I just think complete new player games shouldn't have to take such things into account. Towns in these games are always going to believe a green check and similarly a red check, no matter what, as long as the DT himself isn't suspicious. Towns in new player games already have a disadvantage due to good analysis being sparse, I don't think it's necessary to mislead them with roles too. I suppose having a few experienced players in these games could help. | ||
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paschl
Germany666 Posts
On May 09 2012 17:34 Ange777 wrote: Yeah, there was a lot of inactivity and very little scum hunting which made this game quite easy for dahdum and me. But I don't want to complain I wasn't even sure that Tofu would check Gummy instead was afraid I'd get checked that night. Surprisingly it worked. I would love some advice on my play. Thanks! I think Gummy claiming mafia helped your plan a lot ^^ | ||
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Ange777
Germany1164 Posts
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paschl
Germany666 Posts
And maybe its different here but people who claim mafia can never be allowed to live through the game. If only to avoid the postgame "haha i was mafia, claimed mafia and still won". | ||
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Ange777
Germany1164 Posts
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zelblade
Australia901 Posts
On May 09 2012 21:41 paschl wrote: Tbh i think it might figure into the cops decision whom to check. And maybe its different here but people who claim mafia can never be allowed to live through the game. If only to avoid the postgame "haha i was mafia, claimed mafia and still won". That usually doesnt happen. Than again usually no one claims mafia -_- | ||
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Mementoss
Canada2595 Posts
On May 09 2012 12:42 FirmTofu wrote: Ah, sigh. It was a coinflip. I bet against the possibility of framer because I saw a high probability chance that I would lynch Gummy if an innocent popped up had I checked someone else. Honestly, I didn't believe Gummy was mafia until I got a guilty on him. Then, I forced myself to rationalize the check and convince everyone else to vote for him. Like everyone was saying, you can't rely on the detective all the time, we've gotta be scumhunting too. Gummy threw me off completely and I never really recovered even though I had Ange high on my scum list day 2. Any tips for me to improve? TBH you got really lucky. If mafia team had a RB you would have got 0 checks off and wasted your ability. Claiming really made no sense. After you realized mafia had no RB it should have been obvious that they would have either GF or framer or both to balance out the DT. I played with you one game where you got mislynched day 1. I think you need to work on actually hunting scum and convincing people of your reads and pushing and pressing people. Don't claim until you get a red check next time. Try to post pro town and establish your innocence and post things that promote discussion. Again. Push your reads. It doesn't matter who you think is scum if you can't convince others that the said person is scum. | ||
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36161 Posts
On May 09 2012 21:51 zelblade wrote: That usually doesnt happen. Than again usually no one claims mafia -_- You might call claiming mafia a 'suboptimal' play | ||
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zelblade
Australia901 Posts
On May 09 2012 21:54 marvellosity wrote: You might call claiming mafia a 'suboptimal' play  | ||
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Mattchew
United States5684 Posts
On May 09 2012 20:41 syllogism wrote: It's not a correct check because the target could still be a gf/framed. As soon as a framer flips or actually even earlier when town realizes that there is no roleblocker. Nothing wrong with the setup, I just think complete new player games shouldn't have to take such things into account. Towns in these games are always going to believe a green check and similarly a red check, no matter what, as long as the DT himself isn't suspicious. Towns in new player games already have a disadvantage due to good analysis being sparse, I don't think it's necessary to mislead them with roles too. I suppose having a few experienced players in these games could help. IMO in a 7/2 ratio game as soon as 1 mafia gets lynched, the town becomes instantly overpowering especially to a new nervous mafia player. I also don't agree with the idea that newbie games should depend on blues over analysis (not that you are saying exactly this, but you do hint at something like this saying that analysis is sparse), it leads to bad results in future games. Also, 1 medic save would also lead to 2 confirmed townies due to lack of town KP and basically serve as a full proof DT check. Basically what I am saying is that town had every opportunity to win this game (firm almost checked ange n2 but went with gummy instead ) | ||
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