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TL Mafia 'Area' LIII
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[UoN]Sentinel
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[UoN]Sentinel
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[UoN]Sentinel
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Hi. I'm a bunny, and I'll probably be filling in for most of this game as [UoN]Sentinel is busy breaking down in tears in the bathroom. Something about "purple haze not being in the player list". But I always help him out with analysis in his other games so I should be fine. | ||
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On April 21 2012 04:26 VisceraEyes wrote: are you high? If you're not high today you're wrong. | ||
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At any rate, what I don't get is number 6. If I was GF pretending to be vig, I'd shoot as many of the other vigs as I could. And if I was JK, I'd protect those vigs who I trust to be either town vigs or some other blues. | ||
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Let's do it like this - everyone just do whatever the fuck they want as long as it's beneficial in some way to town. If it's not beneficial in some way to town, then lynch them. If there's one thing I know, it's that voting/lynching/etc. plans always benefit mafia because they can pull them to their advantage (and also you get lynched when your plan especially sucks). Keeping in mind with this train of thought, I will proceed to do whatever the fuck I want as long as it's beneficial in some way to town. When I get back, I'll read filters and try and put more on the table. | ||
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On April 22 2012 01:42 layabout wrote: How are you feeling VE? Any thoughts on marvellosity paqman or mattchew? we need Risen to rise and get posting we need ghost 403 to de-cloak we need St.Daniel to grace us with his presence we need Janaan to get out of bed we need slOosh to stop fapping to Beethoven* we need BroodkingEXE to execute som scum for us we need Bill Murray to get his head in the game we need Zephirrd to tell you guys to stop posting shit we need layabout to Shit, should've stayed AFK. I wanted a pun too | ||
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On whatever date and time johnnywup wrote: I think [UoN] Sentinel is the scummiest and I will post a case on him in a bit. Hold the phone. What? On April 22 2012 08:43 johnnywup wrote: yes gonzaw i can in fact change my mind. I found my case on sentinel was subpar so i didn't post it. whats wrong with that? So... can we have a little tidbit of it? Is my lurking in there, Mr. Wup? Because I'm a regular lurker. Sometimes I have to sleep and eat and go places where I can't exactly contribute to mafia games. This is especially apparent when there are 30 freakin' players and it's a pain in the ass to have to catch up all the time. What about the other inactives? What specifically irks you about my lurking that I have to be voted off? On April 22 2012 08:50 johnnywup wrote: Make it better? I think the case was bad and I didn't have enough evidence to make it a good case. So get off me. I don't care what it makes me look like. If I have a bad case and I post it and people recognize that it's bad then that's worse. I'm being perfectly transparent that my case was bad. I don't have to post anything for you. Hell, I'll give you some points for honesty, but could you at least PM me the case? I'd like to know my charges. Let's see why Otto doesn't like me: On April 22 2012 07:38 Ottoxlol wrote: [UoN] Sentinel had two real posts, the first + Show Spoiler + Just wondering, what's the chance gonzaw's not mafia but just making an extremely retarded point? At any rate, what I don't get is number 6. If I was GF pretending to be vig, I'd shoot as many of the other vigs as I could. And if I was JK, I'd protect those vigs who I trust to be either town vigs or some other blues. He doesnt know that GFs cant shoot.. Nuf said, very bad post, calling out gonzaw but not making a case against his plan Incorrect. As GF you have this little-known thing called "kill power". This is how people tend to die at night. Now if I was GF and people claimed vig, I would be telling my scum buddies, "Hey guys, these people can shoot us. We need to kill a townie anyway, let's hit them where it counts." + Show Spoiler + I'm starting to think all of you people purposely post when I sleep Let's do it like this - everyone just do whatever the fuck they want as long as it's beneficial in some way to town. If it's not beneficial in some way to town, then lynch them. If there's one thing I know, it's that voting/lynching/etc. plans always benefit mafia because they can pull them to their advantage (and also you get lynched when your plan especially sucks). Keeping in mind with this train of thought, I will proceed to do whatever the fuck I want as long as it's beneficial in some way to town. When I get back, I'll read filters and try and put more on the table. I would wait till he put more on the table before we jump to conclusions, I disagree with that plans always benefiting mafia. He's talkin more in general terms, so maybe if he states his case more clearly we'll get more information. Sentinel, if you would be so kind to tell us your opinion about who's benefiting the town right now and who's not, i would like to read what do you think who should we lynch. To be honest, at first I suspected Sloosh. This is why - On April 22 2012 06:01 slOosh wrote: I like Ottoxlol - his questions are pertinent. And yes I think VisceraEyes is scum. Posting like this is terribad. Saying you like someone kinda establishes a one-way trust bond where in this case Otto would be less likely to lynch sloosh because sloosh supports Otto, but on very, very little evidence. "His questions are pertinent". If I ask a mafia-related question to Bluelightz that's also pertinent. Means nothing. Sloosh describes VE's anger as fearmongering, but other than that I have no problem with his argument. Which brings me to my next suspect: On April 22 2012 09:35 ghost_403 wrote: @paqman: This is how I contribute. I find scum, I tell people they are scum, and I beat them to a pulp when they respond to me thinking they are scum. If Sentinel bothered to poke his head in the thread, I'd be beating the crap out of him at the moment. See TLM LI. @gonzaw: I don't like everyone voting all over the place, but I can see exactly what you're saying, so I'm going to ##vote [UoN]Sentinel because I think he's playing the scummiest at the moment. (This me not liking to vote is really something I need to get out of my usual play.) VE's disappearance from should be noted. As far as this change of heart, I don't see it as a change of heart. Not all bad play is scummy play. What I was trying to get across there is that I think that Sentinel is the better lynch out of the two of them. @johnny: I hate writing up cases against people. I pointed it out that I think he's scummy here. I think big posts are a waste of time and space, but that's probably why no one listens to me in these games. brb, writing up a big poast. Why, why, why, why, WHY? You give absolutely nothing for my case. "I'm playing scummy." No explanation. No rationale. No logic. This argument holds so little water it could be Sahara. A good chunk of his filter deals with why I'm bad but never offers any of his own advice. Strike two for not using the "quote" button. This makes it seem like he has something to hide, as well as pissing me off, because I (and any other observers) have to look what other people wrote and I can't read his damn filter. Strike three because another chunk, maybe 50%, can be summarized with "Shut the hell up and help me find scum." This to me looks more threatening than old Viscera did. ##Vote: ghost_403 You all wanted me to post. Your wish has been granted. | ||
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On April 22 2012 10:00 Ottoxlol wrote: slOosh defending me made him the number one of my suspects. GFs dont have kp, only Goons have. You haven't read the rules or the thread Is there not a QT or some way for GF's to contact goons? That wasn't mentioned in OP. Because the standard way of going about it is that they all discuss who to kill. Goons have the final say, but vigs can still be suggested. Your argument is moot. | ||
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On April 22 2012 09:50 ghost_403 wrote: BIG POAST TIEM or How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Decided to Lynch Sentinel 3 posts really doesn't give you much to go on. + Show Spoiler + On April 21 2012 11:39 [UoN]Sentinel wrote: Just wondering, what's the chance gonzaw's not mafia but just making an extremely retarded point? At any rate, what I don't get is number 6. If I was GF pretending to be vig, I'd shoot as many of the other vigs as I could. And if I was JK, I'd protect those vigs who I trust to be either town vigs or some other blues. I don't like this post. It reading this post out of context implies that everyone has already come to the conclusion that gonzaw is mafia, when that isn't at all what's happening in the thread. Up to this point, VE is the only person who's pushed this idea at all. IMO, this is him hedging his bets. I can see him allowing a gonzaw lynch, gonzaw flips green, and him saying "Called it! I'm townie!" No, this is called "Disregard bandwagon, acquire opinions." I wanted my question answered, and thus I asked the question. Also I have a penchant for making acidic posts like that one. If you don't like it, I'm doing my job right. In addition, this is not how you discuss another posters post. Just saying "I don't agree" is not the least bit helpful to the town. + Show Spoiler + On April 22 2012 01:20 [UoN]Sentinel wrote: I'm starting to think all of you people purposely post when I sleep Let's do it like this - everyone just do whatever the fuck they want as long as it's beneficial in some way to town. If it's not beneficial in some way to town, then lynch them. If there's one thing I know, it's that voting/lynching/etc. plans always benefit mafia because they can pull them to their advantage (and also you get lynched when your plan especially sucks). Keeping in mind with this train of thought, I will proceed to do whatever the fuck I want as long as it's beneficial in some way to town. When I get back, I'll read filters and try and put more on the table. "Hey guys, let's not work together at all!" Towns have to work together. Instead, he's encouraging anarchy, and giving himself a pass to do it. Yes. I have a vote, and thus I must decide how to use that vote well. I'd rather have anarchy than offering up precious resources (vigilantes) onto the sacrificial table to find who's godfather and who isn't. Invisible Hand Principle - when people act in their self-interest, as long as they're not stupid about it, it benefits others as well. Individual ambition benefits society, or in this case the town. + Show Spoiler + On April 22 2012 01:58 [UoN]Sentinel wrote: Shit, should've stayed AFK. I wanted a pun too Worthless post, and it was posted 15 minutes after layabout's original post. I'm pretty sure Ver said something about lurkers posting exactly this way in his guide. Clearly, he's here. Clearly he's not doing anything. At this point, Sentinel has had plenty of time to contribute something, anything, to this town, and he has not. I believe that this is not because he is busy, but because he's scum. tl;dr - vote sentinel. Then you are not familiar with Sentinel. He always plays like this. | ||
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"Has it ever occurred to you I'm doing homework and I'm refreshing this infrequently to check out how the thread's going and/or defend my life like I'm doing right now?" Sorry for inconvenience | ||
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Also the fact that this thread updates like 5 pages when I'm asleep doesn't help. | ||
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QT =/= PM. | ||
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Oh. Shit. Ok you got me there. Scratch the case, I think either I already covered your potential points or someone else has already posted them. Proof that this isn't a scumslip - I didn't read OP before game started either. Check filter, it's like the second post there. Anything else I did idiotically? | ||
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On April 22 2012 10:12 ghost_403 wrote: @sentinel My problem is there wasn't a bandwagon. You make it sound like the entire town has gonzaw up on the gallows, when really it's just VE standing in the center of the town screaming that gonzaw is scum. You quoted Ver, so I'll quote Incognito. Small but vocal groups can be influential to turning lynches around. Or in this case, lynching in the first place. Also, that wasn't a question. This is you making a statement, trying to look like you're contributing. Tell me, did you get your quesiton answered? I could make some scathing remark about grammar, but it's time to tone down the acidity, it's not good for my health. Yes, I did get my question answered reasonably. Does this answer your question? Just no. Towns work together or they lose. There's a difference between working together and sacrificing suspicious townies. "It's my meta" is not a good counter to "I think you're useless." Stop being useless and find me some scum. Hey didn't I make a comment about this earlier? Strike three because another chunk, maybe 50%, can be summarized with "Shut the hell up and help me find scum." This to me looks more threatening than old Viscera did. Oh. Yeah. There it is. So now what I'm going to do is take a trip to the toilet and go calm down, and then I'll probably start with marv and work from there. | ||
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+ Show Spoiler + On April 21 2012 20:13 BlazingJitsu wrote: Marvellosity. Let me talk to you. No correction let me talk AT you. what are you doing this game? Let's look at your filter + Show Spoiler + On April 21 2012 09:05 marvellosity wrote: Mattchew, I thought we were gonna have a long, happy, and romp-filled relationship, then you make me click on multiple spoilers. On April 21 2012 10:23 marvellosity wrote: I've tried to think of a bunch of different scenarios and I've not yet managed to picture one where mafia couldn't claim the same situation. The only way a vigi really clears himself is by shooting scum :/ On April 21 2012 10:33 marvellosity wrote: Holy gonzaw post. Nice ^--- These posts are short and worthless. ^--- this post is actually correct, but interestingly, despite the fact that it's the right time to talk about the game mechanics... you never talk about the game mechanics. You ask some unhelpful questions and echo worthless obvious shit other people have said, but otherwise you're deadweight. Where's your contributions, Marv? Where's the discussion that it is "absolute the right time" to talk about? or do you only have inane questions? ^=== HOLY SHIT this question is bad. holy shit. Of course there's good circumstances to make a vig shot! SHOOT A SCUM GUY. Christ. Even if you shoot a godfather, at least that's a data point (not quite a DT check's worth, because it might hasve been roleblock), and if you shoot a goon, hey, you shot a goon. Are you TRYING to be as unhelpful as possible? Are you TRYING to actively inhibit our blue roles? Surely if so it's through neither quality of prose nor persistence in communicating the ideas contained therein with your miniscule cumuluative post length. Typically this is where I say "you can do better, marv" but really, ANYONE could do better. You're shitting on the town and trying to build up a post count without saying ANYTHING. You're lurking in plain sight. ##vote: marvellosity. -Blazinghand Especially the part about a good time to make a vig shot. First off, the tone of BH's post is like sulfuric acid to my lemon juice. I've never, ever, seen him post like that before. Second, BH should have more of a problem with VE. Marv asked a stupid question? Big fucking whoop. We've all done it at one point or another, it's not a death sentence. Are you TRYING to be as unhelpful as possible? Are you TRYING to actively inhibit our blue roles? Surely if so it's through neither quality of prose nor persistence in communicating the ideas contained therein with your miniscule cumuluative post length. Unwarranted, this is. | ||
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On April 22 2012 04:02 St.Daniel wrote: It's so fucking hard to keep up with everything when you are at a camp with a crappy internet connection XD I've read everything and I can't conclude anything with a confident, but I do have some ideas based on my observation so far. I'll post again as soon as I put some of pieces together. And there is no need to be hostile at each this early in game, because thst's EXACTLY what they (scum) want. As long as we keep expressing ideas without trying to bite each other's head off. Remember, keep it simple and clear. <3 TL. This is fluff. All of it. He posted seven hours ago, and I'm feeling a little generous so I'll wait till he posts again before making final judgment. But definitely flashing red to me. | ||
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On April 21 2012 23:17 BroodKingEXE wrote: /confirm Ok, here is my thought on the matter. Revealing the vig roles is a bad idea in my mind. This is because of the possible hits of vig's. We don't know how exciting this game is going to be; we very well could have bored townies due to the size of the game. If we have vig's having to aim at lurkers, as a town we gain no info as the vig could have made an honest mistake. Also what if the mafia choose to circumvent the situation and not fake-claim. The Mafia kills before the Millers we would have wasted our two shots. There is really no way for a vig to get a shot off and figure out the alignment of the player in question unless we target them on the lynch. Brood has one post too (at least one with any substance). This is a little better than St. Dan because it actually talks about vig mechanics. But I don't see how that creates such a disparity that we barely talk about Brood but cast suspicion on St. Dan. | ||
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Coupled with trying to sway townies so much over the course of this thread, I feel no shame in voting VE. ##Unvote: ghost_403 ##Vote: VisceraEyes St. Dan is next on my list. As for Brood, his last post was fluff but I'll give him the benefit of the doubt. | ||
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Also switched my vote in the thread because apparently I forgot to do that | ||
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Welp, here goes. Dramatic music playing in my head while we see how VE flips... | ||
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On April 23 2012 09:19 MidnightGladius wrote: ..... I can't believe we just let that happen. slOosh marvellosity Bill Murray Ottoxlol VE layabout Sentinel Zephirdd In order of voting time. I wonder how many scum were on VE's lynch? Tomorrow, we're taking a long hard look at Zephirdd. I was before VE - I forgot to change it on the other thread On April 22 2012 22:01 [UoN]Sentinel wrote: Ok. What the hell is a "non-cooperative Jailkeeper"? Coupled with trying to sway townies so much over the course of this thread, I feel no shame in voting VE. ##Unvote: ghost_403 ##Vote: VisceraEyes St. Dan is next on my list. As for Brood, his last post was fluff but I'll give him the benefit of the doubt. On April 22 2012 23:48 VisceraEyes wrote: K this game is no longer interesting to me. I'm not interested in defending myself. ##Unvote: Bill Murray ##Vote: VisceraEyes For anyone concerned about me "playing to my win-condition", D1 discussion is ruined and I can accept my part in that. Lynch me, flip me, and do what you will with the information. You'll win with it. And therefor, I'll win. I'm playing to my win-condition. gg Proof of timestamp. | ||
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On April 24 2012 08:50 Mattchew wrote: posting reads before deadline... have to shit real bad so brb in like 20 Wait... how the hell do you brand Risen green because of "town meta"? I think his aggressive-defensive bipolarity kinda ruined that aspect. If anything makes him green is that he backed VE till the end. | ||
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+ Show Spoiler [My defense vs. Gonzaw] + On April 24 2012 12:18 gonzaw wrote: Is it against the rules to talk in this time? No, but thanks for helping me read less text. Anyways, I seem to be falling into the red again, so let's get to business. On April 24 2012 09:16 gonzaw wrote: Sentinel I think he's scum. Here is his first "important" post: (All the ones before that one were just useless filler.) <<My first important post>> He just posts this to defend himself. All the 1st points of this posts are him making excuses and defending himself against accusations. Can't argue with that. That's actually the reason I came out of the woodwork in the first place. He suspects sloosh for some arbitrary reason (sloosh saying "I like Ottoxlul"). Notice how he never mentions his thoughts about sloosh again in the whole game This is my thought process at the time: 1. Read filters, including sloosh's. 2. Observe that sloosh's is starting out bad because post is scummy. 3. Sloosh makes pretty good argument vs. VE. I buy it and not care about sloosh again. His next point is an OMGUS against ghost. His reasoning for voting ghost is that ghost thinks he's scum and didn't post "reasoning" behind it, which is bogus since ghost did offer some reasoning behind it here: <<reasoning behind it here>> You know what else happens in that post? Just like I told many other players, he completely ignores the current discussion at hand He ignores everything about VE, the cases made against him, or the discussion about my "scumslip" and shit. He ignores the Mattchew vs Paqman deal, and he ignores the BH vs marv deal as well. His only motivation for making that post is to: -Defend himself -Offer a shitty vote on a player that has NOTHING to do with the current discussion You call that reasoning? I call it a pretty stupid idea to lynch me. I didn't think enough of VE to address him. All I said is that sloosh's case looks pretty good. Marv (and St. Dan and Brood) I actually get to. And of course I'm going to defend myself, because that's what you're supposed to do when you're under suspicion. His post only serves to disrupt, misdirect discussion and respond to accusations so he's not in the spotlight. His next posts are filler too, he doesn't contribute anything worthwhile. He then starts arguing with ghost, yet he never states if he thinks ghost is scum or not in those posts He just argues against ghost for the sake of arguing and defending himself, he's not scumhunting AT ALL, not even against those that he supposedly thinks is scum. (For example, these posts: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=329128¤tpage=23#443 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=329128¤tpage=23#454 ) At that point I was more pissed off at ghost than willing to support the town. Otherwise I can't argue with that. This is the FIRST post in the whole game where he actually discusses the current events: Is wishy washy regarding marv, and here is where the fun begins: In the next few posts, Sentinel starts into a "suspicion-spree", spouting names of players and players and how he finds them slightly suspicious or is wishy washy regarding them Here are the posts: BH: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=329128¤tpage=23#457 Daniel: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=329128¤tpage=23#459 Brood: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=329128¤tpage=23#460 Dan and Brood had shit posts but I gave them the benefit of the doubt since they had so little, and by calling them out for that I would be a hypocrite. Red but redeemable. He's wishy washy about them or suspicious about them, but doesn't mention them at all later (he only mentions Daniel and Brood one more time, nothing else), or pressure them, or discuss them, or posting more thoughts about them. He just soughts suspicion on those players and then forgets about them. His initial suspicion of sloosh falls in this category as well. Erm, sloosh was in my first post? I actually mentioned them again in my vote on VE: Now comes his vote on VE: Really? Here is his reasoning for voting VE: Notice how this is the first time in the game he mentions VE He never mentioned when VE called me out and started his "lynch gonzaw!" crusades, I wasn't here for that and skimmed the thread nor mentioned him when I and sloosh posted cases against him, I wasn't here for that and skimmed the thread or when other people mentioned him. He mentions him only after he claims, and what does he say? Almost nothing. His "What the hell is a..." statement is useless since it doesn't state anything about his opinion on the matter. I thought it was pretty obvious that I was indignant at his claim and didn't believe it. His "Coupled with......" statement is just very vague and doesn't really say anything about VE's alignment. Apart from that he doesn't say anything else about VE, he doesn't post more thoughts about VE, or about other current discussions about VE either. You can bust me for lack of content but I think the message was pretty clear. "Bullshit, you're scum and I'm voting you for it. Do I really need to work on my word choice that much? Oh, yeah he also mentioned my case about Risen a little bit: ...but is completely wishy washy about it, fails to make an actual opinion on it, and only serves to "ask" about Risen's past games. Then when layabout actually goes through the effort of linking to said games, Sentinel doesn't mention it at all nor mentions Risen at all. Do you want me to start posting "Oh. Ok. Yeah, that make sense, carry on." every time I've felt that way in the thread? Because really on a lot of things, all I can really start saying is "Yeah, I agree with this." because they've pretty much got the whole subject covered. Conclusion: [list] [*]Sentinel is just posting to avoid the spotlight. When he posts he either just defends himself against accusations, he posts fluff and filler about useless things (like that "QT=/=PM" post), or posts wishy-washy stances on other players Yeah, I'm guilty of doing that. Can't say anything about that. [*]He ignores all current discussions and posts things that are irrelevant to them. He talks about players that have nothing to do with the discussion (and like said before in a wishy-washy manner), he talks about current events way too late and doesn't provide any new (or even remotely useful) content regarding it [*]Starts fighting with ghost to disrupt the thread, starts FoSing him but after they keep fighting he fails to take a stance on the ghost subject, he just argues with him for the sake of arguing. Again, I was pissed. If I was scum I wouldn't be pissed because ghost would be telling the truth and I would be only bullshitting. [*]He is "suspicious" and wishy washy about a lot of players and never makes the effort of mentioning them again or contributing more thoughts about them. My total was three? [*]He votes VE without any reasoning and only based on VE "trying to sway townies", and nothing else Yadda yadda yadda end of argument Now that I've done my defense post, time to make arguing. I've read through a lot of filters and I have the easiest time seeing Otto as scum. His first two pages are semi-solid (lots of one-liners but some of them actually move the thread along), but when suspicion starts crawling his way his posts degenerate into retarded one-liners: On April 24 2012 22:34 Ottoxlol wrote: So your case is that I can't make a case? Please make a case before calling me out. So let's look at one of his remaining solid posts in this part of the filter: On April 24 2012 22:21 Ottoxlol wrote: I believe that there is at least one scum on that list, I read them all. I couldn't come up with a case that's strong. Bm contributed zero, it is really hard to analyse someone with zero posts. Marvellosity been attacked d1 with a very weak case, I did not find anything suspicious there layabout he was on my d1 list because I felt his opinion switches were a bit suspicious but d2 he's been posting some very good things, i think he's town Sentinel wasn't too involved in the debates, the case against him is semi decent, but if we punish someone because he did not got involved it should be the one with the least contribution Zephridd's defense is that he was afk too. We have 3 players who did some afking Sent BM Zeph from the VE crowd, Sentinel and Zeph tried contributing so I would vote rather BM then those other 2. He's getting votes and called out why don't he post and he's still just lurking around. BM please get into the game and show us you are town, or else I feel you'll get lynched. Back up Zeph and Sent? I'd actually say this is bad reasoning Otto. Your main analyses consist of people who are lurkers and "I didn't find things suspicious so I'm not voting these people." It seems like you convince yourself tentatively that BM is scum. Also, when VE died you had some weird pointers as to who to investigate. So I'm going to chalk it all up to fluff. They lurk too, but less then BM. I'm fine with any of them lynched. And thus your last solid position disappears. And more fluff. And one liners. You have an awful lot of them. On April 25 2012 03:15 Ottoxlol wrote: @mattchew My first bigger post about VE http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=329128¤tpage=18#343 My vote http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=14438199 After that I engaged with the debate, see my filter @ghost I am getting frustrated, you accuse me, I respond, you do not read my posts. shall I start making up cases too? This is ok. clear reasoning, but all the other accusations has been answered already. Get off my back and read my posts. I did read your posts. I think that you've got nothing to contribute but you don't want to get caught with your pants down and have to defend yourself. Conclusion: Your posts are one liners with quotes. Sometimes you put the quote and then put a one-line response in another post. The first page was decent, and you could have passed for an affable newbie, but then you lost it and now you have no argument. And when you do make arguments they have the consistency of water. I want two things from you: A) A solid case on someone we should lynch. And use your own information this time. 2) A good defense on why you shouldn't be lynched. Until then, ##Vote: Ottoxlol | ||
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On April 25 2012 05:34 Ottoxlol wrote: I will post as soon as I figure out. I already told you I have no clear reads so lurkers are fine with me. Pressuring me to take a stand, then when i say i have no strong reads so right now I would lynch lurkers. And thats scummy because I dont take a stand. Or I dont have strong reads. Oh wait thats impossible, we have so good cases everyone rallied to lynch the scum of the day. Not all lurkers are scum. The reason you're scummy is that you don't actually post a lot on anyone. You just offer watery arguments and then pretend you did something. | ||
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On April 25 2012 05:41 Ottoxlol wrote: @Sentinel I already answered most of these accusations, read my posts. One new point however, the one liners. When ppl doesnt reply or their accusations lack content and/or I already explained it several times why do you want a wall of text? Please indicate me where you have replied. You do this thing where you don't use the quote button or quote separately from your reply, and reading your filter is harder than normal. However I've found that BM is even worse at what you're doing than you are. On April 24 2012 14:50 Bill Murray wrote: I would be pretty hypocritical to vote him for that. I don't see it. It is really easy to mistake someone who is nervous with a Doctor or Jailkeeper role as being mafia... It's something we can't help. VE's vote for me was more like a placeholder. I was pretty busy during the time period. I didn't expect to get wagonned by mafia and for him to actually die. VE is a great player that shouldn't ever be lynched on D1. We should have lynched someone like Paqman on policy, though I'm glad we didn't now. His "we could have 3 vigs" comment cracked me up. Everything is either fluff or one-liner posts. And he never actually takes a stand on any single candidate... or has a single post longer than one paragraph. | ||
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On April 25 2012 06:03 Ottoxlol wrote: @Sentinel Your main argument is that I did nothing and I post a lot of one liners. I did push gonzaws plan, pressured VE, you. then after he claimed I made a case against him and defended it. D2 I had a plan, no one liked it. I have no strong reads so I don't have a case right now, but the majority of ppl doesnt have neither. This is your pressure: [quote] I would wait till he put more on the table before we jump to conclusions, I disagree with that plans always benefiting mafia. He's talkin more in general terms, so maybe if he states his case more clearly we'll get more information. [quote] All you said was I'm wrong because GF's can't shoot and then that. You don't even attack it head-on, more like "this guy had a bad post but if he corrects it then everything is a-ok" Your pressure on VE was marginally better. You did not pressure anybody because they were scum at that point. Not until page 2 did you vote on VE. Your justificatioin on VE's vote was decent but then your second vote was a reactionary lynch for being called out on VE (and BJ ended up being aggressive townie) [QUOTE]On April 24 2012 20:37 Ottoxlol wrote: LOL I don't understand your case. You say the reason I'm scum because the way i voted VE. First I made a case about why VE is playing badly about the massvigclaim plan, then when he claimed, I stated my reasoning why he shouldn't have, and because you guys said he's the best player ever it's obvious that he is scum. I stated why a scum VE would claim and asked him why did he think the claim was good play. He did not respond, started accusing every second player and yelling, then rqd. I blame my vote on VE's bad play and lack of interest. You still did not respond why is this strong enough to switch from tunneling marv. Stating my posts are worthless, when you did not help town at all (not defending VE when you claim it was obv he's town, not stating a single good case that would rally ppl from VE), is the nail in your coffin. #vote BlazingJitsu[/QUOTE] | ||
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On April 25 2012 06:28 Ottoxlol wrote: Of course defending myself is pro-town, what is this question i don't even. The second part is very nice of your post. Maybe I am the helicopter! 1) Please quote your posts for future reading. 2) Defending yourself isn't pro-town. Only if you're town is it some semblance of towniness, but even then scum can defend himself too so that doesn't count. Finding scum is pro-town. | ||
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On April 25 2012 06:33 Ottoxlol wrote: So you would rather have me not posting then try to prevent a misslynch? No, I'd rather have you looking at people's filters and seeing who's scum or not. | ||
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On April 25 2012 09:09 Risen wrote: I just posted a giant case and spoilered it, but it seems no one is going to read it b/c it's spoilered. Do I need to repost it in all its massive glory so that someone will respond? Wtf :/ Nah, I read it and I agree with it. I havent finished reading everything, but so far I had an idea I thought I will write down the VE voters relationships maybe we can figure something out. Sentinel attacked BM Ottox did not attack anyone from this grp marv attacked Zeph BM defending Zeph and marv laya attacking marv, defending zeph Zeph attacking BM, and marv I think this will not make a strong read, but I try If Sentinel is scummy, we should investigate Zeph and vice versa If laya is scummy we should investigate Zeph and vice versa If marv is scummy we should investigate BM and vice versa . So my read is there are 0 or 2 scums in the VE voter group, maybe we can use this later This post in particular I just couldn't wrap my mind around and I thought I was missing something that you guys discussed because it made no sense. Looks like I'm not alone. | ||
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On April 22 2012 14:45 Janaan wrote: I will say this, VE's claim fits his critique of Gonzaw's plan perfectly. At this point, I have no reason to doubt his claims. Paqman, it's like you're purposely misunderstanding Mattchew about VE's claim, I understood exactly what he meant the first time he said it. Either that, or you just don't want to believe that Mattchew is actually making sense, which leads me to believe that you're tunneling him a bit too hard. Please, try to step back and objectively read what Mattchew is saying. At the moment, none of the cases are terribly convincing for me. I also hate the fact that we're well over half through with day 1 and there are still players who haven't said a single word since the game started. I don't know if scum is among them or not, but at this point, it's impossible to tell. The one vote that does make sense to me right now is Bill Murray. He's proven that he's in the thread, he's posted a few times, but he really doesn't seem to care at all. All his posts are entirely void of content, which makes me think that either he's scum trying to get away with not saying anything or he's a townie who just doesn't care about the game. Bill, if you DO care, start being more useful please. ##Vote: Bill Murray I won't be on for another 14 hours or so, I'll be back in the thread around then if anything happens. to this: On April 25 2012 02:55 Janaan wrote: At work so I don't have much time. Ottoxlol, my question to you is this: You say you want to lynch to gain information. Ok, fine. That's not a good mindset, but I'll accept that you think it's a good idea for a minute. What I don't understand is why that makes BM the best lynch. He himself hasn't given any firm stances, and as far as I can tell, there hasn't been anyone who hasn't at least questioned him for lurking, and NO ONE has defended him. So exactly what information will we gain from lynching him that makes it the best choice? Working from the mindset that lynching for information is a good idea, it would make more sense to me to lynch a more controversial target. Namely how he went from BM being his one true stance to saying we shouldn't lynch BM because he's so scum nobody would drop information or give intel. Otherwise, he just seems to agree with the general mood of the thread on everything. So he's either decent town or clever scum. I'd be betting the former at this point because I have nothing to accuse him of. | ||
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Bill Murray - 2 votes Mattchew [UoN]Sentinel Risen - 1 Vote Paqman johnnywup - 1 Vote Ottoxlol Zephirdd - 2 Vote johnnywup Janaan Ottoxlol - 4 Votes Mementoss Risen Bill Murray Zephirdd [UoN]Sentinel - 1 Vote ghost_403 Ottoxlol is currently to be lynched (and I'll switch back my vote to him if we can agree on it) | ||
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I'll have to leave around two hours before deadline for swim practice and won't get back until 1-2 hours after. On whatever date and time Ottoxlol wrote: a) I'm just frustrated that no one reads my posts I have to repeat everything 10 times. Also the posts 90% lack that kind of contribution that it is expected from me. Personally, it's not that I don't read your posts, and yes sometimes you do repeat things twice. But sometimes you scoot your way around a question or give an awkward answer where repeating it will do nothing. So, I agree with Mattchew on this: because you will skew the case and your answer to put you in the best most townie light as town or scum, so your personal defense is pretty much meaningless in my eyes. I will judge you off your cases, interactions with others, opinions, and overall gameplay, not your self-defense | ||
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So right now I'm switching my vote to Ottoxlol. Currently my plan of voting is Otto -> BM -> St. Dan (for lurking, the fact that he's otherwise active means I have no problems attacking him for lurking) I'm really hoping Otto is scum, because if he isn't, it's prolly a death sentence for me. | ||
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How is it odd? If I was scum I'd already know if he was with me or not. If he flips town, I'm suspecting the wrong people (I thought VE was bullshitting and now Otto has crap posting) and I'm that much more scummy. Even if I'm not next in line for lynching, I'm going to have that much more trouble with my analysis because first I have to ask myself what I'm doing wrong. | ||
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On April 26 2012 04:57 johnnywup wrote: i'm pushing sentinel the most out of gonzaws cases because of: I may have played badly the first few days and lurked, but I'm not stupid enough to shoot the guy who wrote the biggest case on me. Shooting ghost in his stead (or both of them) would have been even more of a dead giveaway. | ||
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On April 26 2012 05:05 johnnywup wrote: lol sentinel...before your ebwop i was like uhh o.o. still, that will be noted. and i dont believe you either. he wrote that case after the deadline. scum couldn't change their shot at that point, so your point is null. Duly noted. At any rate, I feel like gonzaw's three biggest problems with me were that: A) I lurked 2) I had a retarded case on VE D) I didn't take a position on anyone. I'm not doing A anymore, especially since my school filter now lets me in to post, and D I've done my best to correct by looking through filters, pressuring Ottoxlol (with a quick break for BM but Otto's getting voted so I can get back to him). I can't really fix my case on VE at this point, but I've tried to justify that with the fact that I thought his claim was pure bullshit, and again going back to my last point I've tried to make better cases in this game. So what's left? | ||
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On April 26 2012 05:13 johnnywup wrote: I'm wondering why it was A 2 D and not ABC or 1 2 3. Whats up with that? O_o I watched Home Alone recently, it's one of my favorite quotes from Kevin's older brother: + Show Spoiler + Megan: You're not at all worried that something might happen to Kevin? Buzz: No, for three reasons: A, I'm not that lucky. Two, we use smoke detectors and D, we live on the most boring street in the whole United States of America, where nothing even remotely dangerous will ever happen. Period. | ||
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Zeph starts off arguing against Marv and MG, then posts one of the fluffiest posts of all time, a Kanye-esque "I was gonna make a case but nah, let me just tell you how much these people suck. On April 23 2012 07:45 Zephirdd wrote: Just for the record, im last minute voting VE in order to avoid a modkill; I dont recall any other candidate better than him either, although I kinda lost track since page 30 or so And what I love is how he made more convincing statements on people he wasn't lynching than the one guy he lynched. More fluff, one liners, and on to page 3. BH/J flipped town. That means all the opinions from the two-headed player are town opinions. That means two town players were thinking that Marvellosity and Ottoxlol were scum. This thing. Townies can be wrong. And he contradicts his logic in the next sentence: Gonzaw's latest thoughts were that me and Sentinel were scum Sloosh does not state anything specific, but he accused MG and asked for people's opinions on both me and him. So BH thought Otto was scum, and that makes him scum? Since Gonzaw thought you were scum, does that make you scum? Because in this particular argument you've as much evidence against Otto as you have against yourself. By the way, lynching Risen or johnny is retarded. IF you want my opinion, I'd say Sentinel is the best lynch target right now. Four hours after I get back and post my offense/defense: On April 25 2012 09:49 Zephirdd wrote: Anyhow, I'm baffled about how much people can't consolidate reads. My scum reads are actually similar to BH's: marv, Midnight and Ottoxlol look bad to me. In fact, I'd say Ottoxlol is a better target than Sentinel for now. And retracts that statement. The rest of Zeph's filter contains similarly contradictory logic, retarded voting patterns, buddying with people to get his opinions, and retracting multiple opinions of his own. I think this is textbook scum and understand a little more now why people thought I was scum based on my D1/N1 play. I'll be leaving pretty soon again and won't be home until long after the deadline, but I'm keeping my vote on Otto unless someone can convince me otherwise. | ||
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Sentinel, I just pointed out town-confirmed reads, as in, reads that can be trusted to be pro-town. Opinions that we know that aren't scum opinions. Y'know, trustable opinions. No, I never said they are right. Marv, just because I never mention Sentinel, teh lurker, doesn't mean I can't vote him to bring him out. Simply put, after he posted I switched to Ottoxlol. You couldn't put that in 1 sentence instead of 4? Also you didn't bring me out, I brought myself out. Although if you want to put the credit on someone else it would be gonzaw and his legitimately solid case. | ||
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On April 26 2012 06:58 Zephirdd wrote: How often have you seen the following situation? => OMG HE LURKS ##VOTE LURK => Hi guys Im back => OMG HE NO LURKS ANYMOAR ##UNVOTE LURK That's the same fucking thing. Geez. No, I'm special. I don't have to lurk to be considered a scum. Welp, that's it for me. I'll be home around 01:30 GMT (+00:00) to check out the thread, and I wish you all the best of luck. Let's hope we get someone red today | ||
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Bill Murray - 1 votes Mattchew Risen - 1 Vote Paqman Zephirdd - 5 Vote johnnywup Janaan MidnightGladius St. Daniel marvellosity Ottoxlol - 6 Votes Mementoss Risen Bill Murray Zephirdd ghost_403 [UoN]Sentinel MidnightGladius - 1 Vote I think this is what it looks like. | ||
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We got two blues left. I'm thinking Otto and BM, visit/shoot/jail them both, come up with some sort of contingency so blues can do their work without revealing who they are. | ||
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On April 26 2012 11:09 johnnywup wrote: vigs definitely should shoot tonight though. and sentinel, wtf? visit/shoot/jail them both? You realise jail heals them? from NKs? Such as vig shots? . . . youre suggesting that we both protect and shoot them? First off, no. One blue does his action on Otto and the other blue does his action on BM. And I'm wondering about the JK role actually, whether we can gamble and roleblock one of the two goons or having to shoot a green. Optimally we could have tracker and JK, tracker reveals himself and JK protects him from the shadows until we find scums. | ||
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On April 26 2012 11:16 johnnywup wrote: The vig role of trying to shoot greens. yeah ok sentinel. you were thinking of scum kills. The shoot part, not the green part -__- On April 26 2012 11:28 Janaan wrote: I'm sorry, but what? Look at the bolded sections. First they should do their work without revealing, then a tracker should reveal himself without any guarantee that we even HAVE a Jailkeeper? Not only can the JK not protect the tracker without the tracker being roleblocked, but no real tracker would claim unless they had some actual information that we could find scum with. These two posts in conjunction look pretty scummy to me. Not only is the advice to blues bad, he contradicts himself. Oh god, and I was on a roll too... tracker/jk plan should happen day 3 or maybe even later. Contingency we should get to work on right now, discussing what we could/should do with each possible combo of blues. There's only 6 of them, shouldn't be too hard. And then tracker/jk plan should happen day 3 or later if tracker finds something worth revealing himself for. The way you phrase it looks like tracker's gonna claim it for the world to see and everyone will get along happily. I was thinking more WIFOM-y game where JK either protects tracker or someone else, but then you posted this: On April 26 2012 11:43 johnnywup wrote: my opinion for blue actions is that blues should do whatever they feel benefits town the most. they cannot consult town to find whats best so they should go by gut feeling and research. don't reveal yourself unless you're a vig, and if you're a vig, reveal only JUST before day post. tracker only reveal if you track someone visiting someone who died, JK should only reveal if there is a missing scum kill. I'm going to go with this and shut up before I say something more stupid, although I'd add to that the scenario where tracker visits JK and someone doesn't die? 2x Mafia Goon: You may kill at night. You are not required to kill. Right now this is my only problem. JK can be thrown off. | ||
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On April 26 2012 11:48 [UoN]Sentinel wrote: I was thinking more WIFOM-y game where JK either protects tracker or someone else <<johnny's post>> I'm going to go with this and shut up before I say something more stupid | ||
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The question is, if Otto is town, what would be the motives of Brood and Risen? I don't see any clear ones for now, so I'll go about believing Otto is scum. | ||
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##Vote: Ottoxlol | ||
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On April 26 2012 09:03 MidnightGladius wrote: At least all of those votes moving around at the deadline should yield something interesting. And that's our 4-man scumteam. GG | ||
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On April 28 2012 07:17 Ottoxlol wrote: If the triumvirate would be scum why on earth scum MG would say that? I took MG's post to be kinda observing, as if a chessmaster pulled some sort of elaborate trap on his opponent, then re-emerged in the audience with a fake moustache to say "That guy fell into a really elaborate trap!" Except it's not that elaborate. And the fake moustache doesn't seem to be working. @marv's case on risen I really think it was a bus to try and distance himself from Ottoxlol and decided to come back to his rescue. Back in Werewolves (was it?) I was scum, and our original plan between the 3 of us was to take polar opposite viewpoints so in case one of us went down it wouldn't lead back to the other two, in case immediately. I still can't explain though, why he would come to Otto's rescue if both were scum. This is fishy. Although now he's voting on his buddy to make amends? Or are they all turning on each other so we don't hit all 4 of them? | ||
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On April 29 2012 01:19 Mattchew wrote: So you don't listening to the thoughts of confirmed townies? Interesting, another soft defense of ottox/risen I was about to say something like this but I accidentally hit the refresh button. And dead people's thoughts are important because it opens up the question "did they piss someone off and that person was gunning for them?" | ||
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On April 29 2012 01:24 Mattchew wrote: wrong and WIFOM dead peoples thoughts are important because we know their alignment, that is all Knowing that Mementoss was blue serves us nothing except knowing we only have one blue left. But knowing what his allegiances are, or any other dead person's, is what can save us this game. | ||
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Ghost_403 --> ottoxlol Risen --> ottoxlol Mattchew --> ottoxlol [UoN]Sentinel --> ottoxlol Ottoxlol --> MidnightGladius Bill Murray --> MidnightGladius marvellosity --> MidnightGladius johnnywup --> MidnightGladius Janaan --> MidnightGladius PaqMan --> MidnightGladius BroodkingEXE -> BillMurray(?) This last one is painting bkexe redder in my eyes. | ||
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On April 29 2012 10:34 PaqMan wrote: I also don't like how Sentinel completely dropped off our radar after Gonzaw died. He was Gonzaw's biggest scumread. Sentinel Case ^Everyone please read through it. Ok, let's go back and see what he's accused me of, and what's still relevant: Conclusion:
He's scum and I'll vote for him tomorrow. Let's see: "Sentinel is just posting to avoid the spotlight". This has been rendered false. I have been pushing the Otto lynch, coming up with conclusions, and offering plans. I do too much WIFOM, granted, but it's not to avoid the spotlight. It's quite the opposite. "He ignores all current discussions and posts things that are irrelevant to them". I think it's safe to say this is now absolutely null. "Starts fighting with ghost to disrupt the thread". Well I can't really correct this one but I haven't touched ghost, and as I said before, I was pissed at the time and wasn't thinking clearly. Nothing more. "He is "suspicious" and wishy washy about a lot of players". I'm suspicious of more than one (Otto, Risen, Brood, BM) but so is most of the others. Some have even more (who was the one who had 6 people on his potential scum list?). And I certainly do go back to them again, and in fact I'm still favoring an Otto lynch Day 4. "He votes VE" well I can't change that. But I CAN point out that Zeph voted VE to not be modkilled, stated such, and flipped green. So I don't see why this would make me red. "Doesn't actively contribute, lurks, and posts only sporadically". Granted, I haven't posted as much as say, 2-3 days ago, but I am not a lurker. So this case is pretty much irrelevant now. | ||
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On April 29 2012 14:05 BroodKingEXE wrote: @Johnny No, I am saying that JK's can jail their most town reads. Mafia then have to guess who to shoot (since they want to get rid of influential or correct townies) and whether they are JK'ed. I think a jailing using a reasoned desicion (figuring out who is town) is better than having a 1/3 chance of a useful jail. Still, there's also the fact that in the end, Mafia has a 7/8 chance of successfully shooting someone. So to max out the odds they can go for someone who isn't being suspected at the moment, or just shoot an active player. Personally, I see many players in this game who are influential and leading the discussion. JK can't jail them all. 1/3 seems like better odds than 1/8. | ||
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2 hours left, gents. We shall see what happens. | ||
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I'm off for now, I'll be back just before the night ends. | ||
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Jailkeeper here. I jailed Otto, because, as I said, it felt more likely I could stop the shot. Although I still think Otto is red, he is not a goon, and as you can see, one of ours died last night. What do we do now? | ||
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##Vote: Ottoxlol | ||
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On April 30 2012 09:37 johnnywup wrote: hey guys im eliminated from the tournament so i have a few moments to look over the thread. first off: do you have proof sentinel? I believe you but I'd like proof just in case Ottox is confirmed Not Goon from sentinels. I think we should aim for goons before GFs, even if we have confirmed scum. GFs are useless at this stage for scum, we don't have a vig so they don't have any real powers. We need to aim for the KP before we kill the GFs, imo. So if anyone has any idea who the Goon is, we should lynch that person. Well, I have breadcrumbs. Well, when I was lurking in the beginning of the game, I was gonna breadcrumb "Jailkeeper". Maybe this reduced what I could say at that point in the game, but, well, I'm still alive and I don't look like I'm gonna be lynched, so yeah. First page of my filter, from the post that begins "Just wondering", first letter of each paragraph spells the first five letters of "JAILKEEPER". Then I gave up and came under attack, and yeah. First night was during my lurking phase, and was too busy to PM iGrok an action. Second night I was going to do Otto. I really wanted to reveal myself here: On April 26 2012 11:09 johnnywup wrote: vigs definitely should shoot tonight though. and sentinel, wtf? visit/shoot/jail them both? You realise jail heals them? from NKs? Such as vig shots? . . . youre suggesting that we both protect and shoot them? On April 26 2012 11:11 [UoN]Sentinel wrote: First off, no. One blue does his action on Otto and the other blue does his action on BM. And I'm wondering about the JK role actually, whether we can gamble and roleblock one of the two goons or having to shoot a green. Optimally we could have tracker and JK, tracker reveals himself and JK protects him from the shadows until we find scums. But I had no way of proving there was a jailkeeper in the game. I could reveal myself, but since there was no third guy to protect me, I wasn't going to die. Now I have 72 hours to live, but I think at this point the ends justify the means. Back to the story. I was going to do Otto. Because Johnnywup made this post: On April 26 2012 11:43 johnnywup wrote: my opinion for blue actions is that blues should do whatever they feel benefits town the most. they cannot consult town to find whats best so they should go by gut feeling and research. don't reveal yourself unless you're a vig, and if you're a vig, reveal only JUST before day post. tracker only reveal if you track someone visiting someone who died, JK should only reveal if there is a missing scum kill. And this really got it into my head that I should be using jailing as an offensive ability. Thus I would attempt to jail one of the two goons. Now my number one read is Otto, and coupled with the fact that BkEXE and Risen both defended him, he's goon, right? (Well wrong, but that's beside the point). So I'd jail Otto. On April 27 2012 04:35 layabout wrote: ghost you may want to do some redirecting: JK's stay the hell away from ottox, if you want to block a goon go for BK (or maybe MG) instead. Vig's shoot the crap out of ottox. When he flips red we will be in a great position. On the outside chance that he flips green then we will know we are on the wrong track. Trackers on Risen or BK or MG. But then we didn't know that there wasn't a vig in the game. So I followed layabout's advice and stayed the hell away from ottox. Instead I blocked Broodking. Two guys died, no dice. Therefore broodking is also not a goon. Third day comes, Mementoss dies which means I'm the last blue. I go back to my old plan, jail Ottoxlol, nobody gets shot Night 3, and then I come out riding on my shining white stallion, saying that I'm jailkeeper, we got the goon, and game ends Day 4 because scum has no KP remaining. Except it didn't turn out that way. And here I am. And marvellosity is dead. And here's his last post, which actually scared me a bit when he died, because he was getting suspicious of my comments again. On April 30 2012 08:59 marvellosity wrote: So, in case I die tonight. My thoughts about scumteam atm are: Ottoxlol, Bill Murray, Sentinel/Risen. But the third is definitely not set in stone, if I was forced to choose I'd go Sentinel. As things went I pushed Zephirdd for lynch and it saved Ottoxlol, then my analysis and my gut said MG was scum while Ottoxlol was town. These reads haven't gone very well for me, and the weight of opinion on Ottoxlol seems overwhelming. As far as I'm concerned, Bill Murray pretty much claimed scum on the thread: This is just taking the piss (see in spoilers also) and no-one really noticed, but wow. Practically a scum claim. I didn't like Sentinel's comments on what the remaining blue should be doing tonight. He still seems off to me. [b]Risen]/b] just made a post so I'm not so sure. There's cases against him, his voting madness, and giving up is just not good. Now reread that knowing that I'm the jailkeeper. Now it makes sense why I make these comments. Right? | ||
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On May 01 2012 07:57 johnnywup wrote: What do you mean use a break? You haven't posted anything except that to take a break from I'm still reading this for updates every 15 minutes or so. I've cast my vote, and 5 of the 10 remaining people have cast their vote for Ottoxlol. By break, I mean I probably won't come back to check this thread until morning. | ||
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Otherwise, I can take care of BM tonight. We'll know if he's a goon or not by tomorrow and then we can go from there. | ||
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What's that spreadsheet you're talking about? May I see it? | ||
[UoN]Sentinel
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Three things to sum up what you said in the post: Sent pointed out a mistake in MG’s post, he made a townlist, and "I'm going to give myself an excuse not to post so I can avoid scumslipping.". Three things to counter what you said in this post: He did this so as to prevent misunderstandings about him bandwagoning, not everyone thinks townlists are bad, and you made an excuse post yourself: + Show Spoiler + On April 22 2012 06:57 ghost_403 wrote: All right, /confrim. Sorry I've been gone for the last day. The time I can spend in the thread is going to be limited for the next couple of days. After the 25th, I should be back to full steam. Now to find some scum. Only got 12 pages to go through. Shouldn't be too hard. [/quote] Also, Brood's case gives me too much credit. I don't even know why we're talking about what I was doing Day 1. In all fairness, though, ghost said some stupid stuff, but so did gonzaw. Remember him? The townie guy who wrote that big-ass case on me and I couldn't defend myself against him? That guy. | ||
[UoN]Sentinel
United States11320 Posts
<- even list || adjusted to relative positions -> Notes about the chart: So basically I ordered this chart on this: If I was a vig with an infinite number of bullets, I'd start at #9 and shoot my way up until I found my 3 scum. Otto we're all lynching and I think he's got the closest to 100% chance of being scum. Bill's next on the list as potential and pretty fucking scummy, but he's not quite as confirmed as Otto is. He's still a pretty close second. Next is 6 and 7. I had a bit of trouble determining this layout. There's only three scums left, and I have a feeling it's BM, Ottoxlol, and one of these two. I would say that I'd have to put Risen as #7, although this is mostly because of the clusterfuck that got Zephirdd lynched. He's rising, and for all intents and purposes we can consider them tied for sixth. Then comes the line of purgatory and the people who I think are townies. This list is semi-arbitrary and I'm 99.5% sure all five of these guys are towns. However, we all make mistakes, and if by some happenstance two of the 6-9 players have been playing horribad town, which does happen, I've done it to some extent, then this is my order of suspicion. Paqman I couldn't find anything in his filter and I don't remember anyone making a good case against, this is why I give him #1. Closely following are the other four in the order of amount of fire each one has taken over the course of the game. Questions / possible rearrangements? Speak up now while I have the file open and we can save some time. | ||
[UoN]Sentinel
United States11320 Posts
If BKEXE is not, then I'm right (as I usually am) and we're down either a bad player or (more likely) one scum. Risen is definitely scum, I don't know where BM fits into this but I'd drop him down to #8 in that chart of mine, especially since he has absolutely no evidence I'm not JK. I claimed JK because even if Otto does get lynched, we need to find the goon. Also, when marv died he was talking about me possibly being scum. I wouldn't want to be in purgatory. I want to be regarded as townie so that my reasoning is properly counted. So I claimed. And now all is clear. Now, my dear friend Risen, I have one last question for you. Are you the servant, or are you the master? | ||
[UoN]Sentinel
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[UoN]Sentinel
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8 of us left, 3 scum. 7 minimum left by daylight gives us one last day. Shit. All my plans banked on Otto being scum. | ||
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[UoN]Sentinel
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Mattchew is claiming vigilante and unless he's trolling it's a good chance he's one of the two godfathers. Because what does vigilante flip when he dies? I'm going to vote for Bill Murray because that is who I jailed tonight. Now granted, if I were scum, I'd rather sit and not kill, then Bill Murray gets lynched as townie and you get a free kill, BUT that's a waste of a night. It boils down to this. For the sake of this post, let's assume that mafia has to place a kill and BM is not goon: If the mafia decides not to kill someone, we lynch Bill Murray, and then tonight they kill another townie. If the mafia does order a kill, they don't know who we're likely to lynch and have to play more conservatively for another night because the obvious candidate, Bill Murray, is not the goon. However, while the first scenario looks more appealing at first because they kill two townies, I don't think it's a good deal. For example, they could place a kill on me. If they killed me, we could have questions: Did I really jail BM? If BM is not the goon, who is? Neither one of these could be answered because I was away when the night ended, and I am no longer alive. TL;DR: If BM is not goon, it's a bad tradeoff for the mafia to withhold their kill and make it look like I did it. Therefore, I will assume that BM is in fact the goon, that I have successfully jailed him, and that he will be lynched today. ##Vote: Bill Murray | ||
[UoN]Sentinel
United States11320 Posts
On May 03 2012 09:46 Risen wrote: Mattchew is lying. This. Now: I had a strong feeling that mafia would hold its kill in order to mislynch (and it pains me to say this) Bill Murray. Did anyone read my explanation on why this is a bad idea on mafia's part? Anyways, here's something I found interesting + Show Spoiler [Shitload of Quotes] + On April 22 2012 14:31 Mattchew wrote: sleep might be back on in like 9 - 12 hours vote BM On April 23 2012 01:05 Mattchew wrote: we should lynch BM cause he claimed scum in thread by ninja voting On April 23 2012 02:11 Mattchew wrote: BM ninja voted, Daniel didn't.. he atleast attempted to explain his vote (albeit scummily as fuck) . When someone ninja votes you lynch them. Its basically a red check My scum picks so far are BM, Risen, Daniel and I would like to lynch/vig them in that order Skip a few pages: On April 27 2012 12:05 Mattchew wrote: ottox or BM those are the 2 I would consider lynching today On April 30 2012 16:23 Mattchew wrote: We lynch BM after we sort out Ottox/risen/brood He is so scummy he makes me pretty sure that 1 of risen/brood is not scum But then here we have this: On May 01 2012 21:35 Mattchew wrote: I have my doubts about BM being the last goon. I think he's scum, but not goon. I think someone that has fallen off the radar more (AHEM Janaan) could be playing a perfect goon in this setup So I think it's safe to say Mattchew has been consistently pushing for Bill Murray's death. On May 02 2012 08:28 Mattchew wrote: what if sent is fake claiming and the real blue is just waiting for the right opportunity. I believe sent but idk On May 02 2012 08:30 Mattchew wrote: meh fuck it.. sent you need to jail BM and we need to lynch Ottox. We are doing all the right things to come back from this travesty of a game On May 02 2012 10:26 Mattchew wrote: sent should jail BM and we should lynch BM tomorrow that is all goodnight Alright. So back to Matt's vig claim. Why, oh why, does a player that has been wanting desperately to lynch Bill Murray since Day 1 make this post? TLDR; We are actually in LYLO, I am Vig, Risen and Sent are scum. Bill Murray is confirmed town. I had a strong feeling that mafia would hold its kill in order to mislynch (and it pains me to say this) Bill Murray. So apparently you think I'm scum, because I jailed your number one read, following your orders, and that mafia would choose not to seize an excellent opportunity of lynching me or, if you wanted to keep that bullshit going, a good town like Paqman. Your argument is more invalid than Stephen Hawking. | ||
[UoN]Sentinel
United States11320 Posts
If mafia claim vig, and claim to shoot a target, and then do so with their own KP, this can happen: The Goon claimed vig, and he uses his KP to shoot his claimed target: Then he wastes his other KP. If he was real vig, then there would be an additional KP, but in this case there isn't. In this case he HAS to claim that the target of scum's KP got Jailed, which can bring problems to him depending on the real JKs, for instance if there is no JK he's fucked). In this case, a tracker on him will watch him visit his claimed target Also, in this case (if a tracker tracks him), they can't "shoot" someone, claim their shot failed and say his target was GF, because the tracker will instantly know it's bullshit. The GF claimed vig and he uses the Goon's KP to shoot his claimed target: Same as above, but only the Goon will use his KP. So if a tracker tracks him, he will know he didn't shoot his target and will know he's scum. I guess this means that maybe the GF's won't fake-claim vig, and the Goons will instead? In that case, if we ever lynch him, he will flip Goon and we will know 100% that he was scum when he's lynched. If he was GF and we lynched him, since he would flip GF we wouldn't be 100% sure he was scum. So to fake-claim, scum have to choose between: Goon claiming: Pros: Being protected from tracker's results Cons: Not creating confusion if they ever get lynched. Having to rely on JK's to claim their shots Godfather claiming: Pros: Creating confusion if they ever get lynched, Cons: Relying on JK's to claim their shots. Not being protected from tracker's results. Cons from both of them: If they don't want to rely on JKs to claim their shots, scum have to fake a claimed shot on a target, and say that his target is GF after there is no kill the next day. This will lead them to a 1v1. Weird Scenario that they can use: If a Goon claims vig, that night he can use his KP to shoot a GF; then the next day he claims that scum's KP was blocked by a JK AND that his target is GF. Trackers on him will see him shooting the GF, so that may "confirm" him, although it seems too wild (but well, I'm editing this post so I am free to put anything I want, so fuck you ) The point is that they have to choose, they HAVE to do something. We will force them to react to our plans, and hopefully they fuck up their plans/fake-claims and we catch them easily. Matt is simply claiming vig because for Day 4 and Night 4, nobody ever seriously questioned me sans Risen. They might have had doubts, but in the end everyone just wrote me off as the townie without a doubt. This is problematic. Because if I point out one of their goons (say, BM was a goon), nobody has the sufficient defense to back me up. Your argument is that I am admitting I was wrong about BM after pushing him all game? Thats it? You didn't know I was the vig, but you did know that I was actively pushing BM, this made him the perfect candidate, cause if you claim to jail BM and no kill occurs, you know that I will push for BM's death as hard as anyone. Your plan failed because I know you are not Jailkeeper therefore scum held their kill on purpose to mislynch BM and win. BM is being painted red by scum because he was the easiest mislynch target. My argument is that you just flip to this opinion with your fake vig claim. Before that, you expressed little to no thought that BM was a townie. You wanted to see him gone. People can be wrong, but you seem to not know that. Ghost and I pushed Ottoxlol with all our might but he was town. So why should you get a chance to be wrong if we do not? And answer me this: If I were scum, what would be my incentive to choose Jailkeeper over Vig like Matt did? I could easily bullshit a case. I could say that Otto was GF and I shot him that night. Then we would have lynched Otto, Otto flips Town, I die tomorrow. The only thing Mattchew's scenario differs from mine is that he claimed during LyLo. There is no tomorrow. And I didn't need you to push BM for me at all, because BM's filter sings for itself. You could have died Day 1 and BM would still have enough people supporting him to die. You just need to create some confusion to free Bill Murray. | ||
[UoN]Sentinel
United States11320 Posts
I'd be ok with lynching Risen. He was on my scumlist, he's been long-suspected, and he's been buddying me for some odd reason (I liked it better when you called bullshit on me bro, but now I got matt for that so meh). Point being, I got nothing to lose. Matt might, but more on that in a second. If Risen goes down today, I'll jail BM and we'll see. If mafia does not kill again, then BM walks the plank and town wins. If mafia kills again, they were in fact pretending last night, and game over. Matt, I want to hear your opinion on this. On one hand, you rid yourself of Risen. On the other hand, I'm still around and you don't want that do you? Somehow me agreeing to this you'll use as evidence to paint me as scum? But definitely go ahead with this if it means town works together for once. But what really bothers me the most about the whole ordeal is that Mattchew's claim could have been a last-ditch effort to save BM from getting lynched. I want to see Sentinel posting more when he returns. THIS IS WHAT I'VE BEEN TRYING TO TELL YOU GUYS ALL DAY | ||
[UoN]Sentinel
United States11320 Posts
Zeph was also associated with me, and when he died he flipped town. Point being, I'm going to my old plan. Lynch Bill. | ||
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[UoN]Sentinel
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What has Risen done that Zephirdd has not? | ||
[UoN]Sentinel
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On May 04 2012 11:01 PaqMan wrote: @Sentinel why do you believe Risen is town? Why did you retract your opinion right after johnny made his objection to the lynch? If you really are telling the truth, why would you want to vote BM instead of the scum that's counter-claiming you? I don't like how you make a post and disappear. You've been doing that since Day started and Mattchew counter-claimed. I don't believe Risen is town, but I don't believe he's scummy enough to get lynched. I'd rather lynch someone like BM who's more likely to be a goon. I'd say Risen if scum is GF at the most. My retraction came because I was reading Zeph's filter and Zeph sounded A LOT like Risen in his final playstile before he was lynched. Risen is definitely scummy, but he is not the main priority. BM is the main priority. And I don't believe Mattchew is a goon. I believe he's a vig. It would make more sense, both according to gonzaw's theory and the fact that he gets lynched he flips GF either way. And I'm actually quite busy these last few days. I have a party to go to 3 hours before today ends, and I won't be back till maybe 3 hours after night begins. | ||
[UoN]Sentinel
United States11320 Posts
And yes by vig I mean GF. Paq, you're a moron, but I'm willing to deal with that. sent is fake claiming, he can fake claim he jailed another person and then have scum hold kp. also forgot that he can have his goon (which could very well be him) kill and him say he jailed someone other than BM. Or... I can jail BM. A no-lynch means there's a 100% chance we'll go into Day 6. It'll be 4-3 if mafia can get their kill off. | ||
[UoN]Sentinel
United States11320 Posts
On May 05 2012 00:35 ghost_403 wrote: Johnnywup, stop playing stupid. If we can't get all of our votes onto the right candidate this lynch, mafia are just going to voteswitch at the last moment, mislynch a townie, and end the game. This lynch has to be Sent v Mattchew. Earlier, I was wrong for pushing Risen this lynch (even though I still think he's scum), and you're wrong for pushing me now. Now, start working with the town to make sure we do this lynch right. If/when we lynch scum tonight, I would be more than happy to discuss lynching me. Right now, we have better things to do. I'm still trying to figure out which one of them is town. I've found both a town and scum game from Sent, but only town for Mattchew. Can anyone point me to one where he rolled scum? What will we learn by lynching Mattchew? GF and Vig both flip GF. I want a BM lynch because that will prove whether BM is the goon or not. | ||
[UoN]Sentinel
United States11320 Posts
On May 05 2012 04:35 ghost_403 wrote: @sent: If we lynch him, and he was a vig, you can't be the jailkeeper, meaning we lose the game. You do realize that, right? I'm sorry what? By "him" do you mean Mattchew? To re-iterate: There is no way to tell dead vigilantes apart from dead godfathers. | ||
[UoN]Sentinel
United States11320 Posts
On May 05 2012 04:50 Mattchew wrote: i am around for the next 2 hours. Then I will be playing basketball. I will try to get home before the deadline, but I can't make any promises. Any questions you want me to answer, now would be the time Same here, leaving in 2 hours as well and I'm definitely not returning until waaaaay after the deadline. | ||
[UoN]Sentinel
United States11320 Posts
On May 05 2012 05:00 ghost_403 wrote: :| There are only three blue roles in the game. VE flipped JK, Mementoss flipped tracker. That means that either you or Mattchew are the final blue. Ok. I think I get what you're saying. I am aware of that, and I'm the last remaining blue. The thing is, a lot of you guys are debating which one of us is the real blue. So when I'm putting evidence down to support the fact that I'm the blue, a lot of the time I'll have to compare: -If I'm the blue and Matt is the scum, asdfasdfasdf -If I'm the scum and Matt is the blue, asdfasdfadsf I'm not saying Matt is blue. I need to use hypothetics to prove that it's a whole lot more believable that I'm blue and not him. | ||
[UoN]Sentinel
United States11320 Posts
On May 05 2012 05:30 ghost_403 wrote: I think Mattchew is scum. I can't see Sentinel fake claiming JK from Day 1 if he was scum for this exact situation. His breadcrumb is the same in this game as it was in NMM I. He played medic in that game. Unfortunately, I still think his plan is poorly thought out. Scum could have easily held their KP last night. Bill Murray has played an insane game thus far, which is unfortunately par for the course for him, meaning I'm not convinced he's confirmed scum. If Sentinel really is right, we should be lynching Mattchew today. I'm not paid enough to think things out. Anyways, here's another fun little breadcrumb I did to be consistent with the WTF I did in Normal Mini. It reads "oh shit" because people began suspecting me at that time. + Show Spoiler + On April 22 2012 09:53 [UoN]Sentinel wrote: (quote) On whatever date and time johnnywup wrote: //I wrote this bit manually I think [UoN] Sentinel is the scummiest and I will post a case on him in a bit. (/quote) Hold the phone. What? So... can we have a little tidbit of it? Is my lurking in there, Mr. Wup? Because I'm a regular lurker. Sometimes I have to sleep and eat and go places where I can't exactly contribute to mafia games. This is especially apparent when there are 30 freakin' players and it's a pain in the ass to have to catch up all the time. What about the other inactives? What specifically irks you about my lurking that I have to be voted off? Hell, I'll give you some points for honesty, but could you at least PM me the case? I'd like to know my charges. Let's see why Otto doesn't like me: Incorrect. As GF you have this little-known thing called "kill power". This is how people tend to die at night. Now if I was GF and people claimed vig, I would be telling my scum buddies, "Hey guys, these people can shoot us. We need to kill a townie anyway, let's hit them where it counts." To be honest, at first I suspected Sloosh. This is why - | ||
[UoN]Sentinel
United States11320 Posts
On May 05 2012 05:39 Mattchew wrote: You realize how easy it is to breadcrumb, and then use it to counterclaim or not use it at all? this game has a shade of similarity to im a cop you idiot, because the set number of blues makes a scum counterclaim seemingly inevitable My breadcrumbs are a work of art | ||
[UoN]Sentinel
United States11320 Posts
On May 05 2012 05:55 johnnywup wrote: sentinel do you realize it doesnt matter what he flips? there is no tomorrow. if he flips vig and we don't lose he's scum, if he flips scum and we lose then hes vig. it doesnt matter what he flips anymore. it's not wifom at this point post death: its endgame This is true. When he flips scum it's 5-2, which becomes 4-2 if I can't block the shot. I gotta go take a shower and eat, when I return I'll have come up with a plan of action. | ||
[UoN]Sentinel
United States11320 Posts
On May 05 2012 06:10 PaqMan wrote: I'm a moron, but you're a liar. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=329128¤tpage=110#2181 Sent lied about being "too busy" to send in a order. To quote, "2 posts". Compared to the eight I've already posted today in three hours' time. A bit of WIFOM for you: Now if I were scum, why would I lie about being busy? I could just say I jailed some random-ass townie who didn't get killed but still looks like a plausible jail target. Anyways, I can't really poke a hole in johnny's plan. Mattchew it is. ##unvote: Bill Murray ##vote: Mattchew | ||
[UoN]Sentinel
United States11320 Posts
I won't be home until 03:00 GMT (+00:00), so you guys get 2 hours to decide amongst yourselves without us. Good luck, please keep me alive, and may the fourth be with you. | ||
[UoN]Sentinel
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So wait, who was the second goon? | ||
[UoN]Sentinel
United States11320 Posts
for comparisons. At least I was right on two of them. | ||
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