EPTI mean...it *was* Dittert...but come on.....at least lynch into Dittert/KB. Lynching Xatalos made no sense. I was even convinced Xatalos was town by mid Day 3....
Newbie Mini Mafia VIII - Page 3
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ArcticFox
United States1092 Posts
I mean...it *was* Dittert...but come on.....at least lynch into Dittert/KB. Lynching Xatalos made no sense. I was even convinced Xatalos was town by mid Day 3.... | ||
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ArcticFox
United States1092 Posts
On April 20 2012 08:55 Xatalos wrote: I'm also quite baffled as to why I was lynched in the end... And I still can't believe Willz was town! How in the... His play was SO scummy it had no bounds. I agree. I had willz as scum right up until yomi made the switch off of Dittert. Then I was like "fuuuuuuck. it's KB + yomi + allin. fuuuuuuuck." Willz was like 4th scum with his play though. It just made no sense. WHY was the vote between KB/Xatalos instead of KB/Dittert? ONE of those two had to be scum, no way town would claim vs. town there. | ||
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ArcticFox
United States1092 Posts
On April 20 2012 09:02 Xatalos wrote: I should have seen the signs when suddenly KharadBanar and imallinson voted for me out of nowhere. At first I thought KharadBanar was in some huge trap of illogical thinking, but the more he posted, the less I started to trust him. Like I said in ObsQT, Dittert didn't make it exactly easy to believe he was town with his posting. If it had been like...func who said it, or even vK, town would have just insta-lynched KB without a second thought. But with that logic, if you think for a few minutes, it has to be an either/or between Dittert/KB. Either Dittert's fakeclaiming or he's not. Then it makes 0 sense for mafia to fakeclaim there and the rest of his QT wouldn't let him do it. It's an easy KB lynch. | ||
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ArcticFox
United States1092 Posts
On April 20 2012 09:07 Xatalos wrote: Yeah... It seems like Dittert's strategy was to make himself too suspicious to be shot at night, but it backfired hard, since nobody trusted him anymore. To be fair, until like 12 hours ago I had you pegged as scum too, so I'm not too great at my reading yet. XD | ||
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ArcticFox
United States1092 Posts
On April 20 2012 09:12 Xatalos wrote: When did you come to the conclusion I would be Mafia? And how did you figure out I was actually town? Inexperience mostly. What I was reading as "wild logic and random accusations" was just active townie behavior. I came to my senses when Matt set me straight for like the 4th time that I should be looking for motivations, and not tunneling on perceived scumslips. When I re-read your filter today, it finally all clicked together. Never clicked for me on willz though. willz play had me confused all fucking game. | ||
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ArcticFox
United States1092 Posts
On April 20 2012 09:16 KharadBanar wrote: Thank you to all the players in that game for making it so amazing for scum  And huge thanks to GreYMisT for hosting this! Your Aperture Mafia game was the one that got me into playing Mafia here on TL in the first place, and I would like to continue to do so. ##Donate 100 TMB GreYMisT You'll be amused KB that Hiro protected you N1, that's how the shot got through on me. He had acrofales read as scum. | ||
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ArcticFox
United States1092 Posts
##Donate 100 Snarfs <3 | ||
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ArcticFox
United States1092 Posts
On April 20 2012 09:29 Mattchew wrote: We can do this... we can learn to do better. I thought my coaching subjects played well dittert and acro did some unconventional shit that i would have advised against but i wanted my coaching to be more general. Artic and VonKlaust played very very well i thought. Idk if i actually coached yomi and broodking cause of the one and done responses. Matt <3 It was SO hard watching from the QT because NOBODY WAS PUSHING THE LURKERS. Any of KB, func, allin, Dittert (pre-DT claim), Hiro (pre-lynch) or vK (pre-Day 3) could have been scum and nobody would have known. The only reason I zeroed in on Hiro as blue was because when he posted, it was posts that actually said something. | ||
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ArcticFox
United States1092 Posts
KharadBanar 04-13-2012 01:58 PM ET (US) OK to your comments about Xatalos. Also ArcticFox is looking to be more dangerous now, he's got us practically figured out. If the Yomi lynch had proceeded as planned, imallinson was my next target. KB was blending well, I didn't have him figured out until much later.Of course after that lynch screwed up and the fallout from it my reads went all over the place. x.x Edit: If anyone around is still qualifying as a nub like me, join http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=329508 so we can have more fun! =D | ||
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ArcticFox
United States1092 Posts
On April 20 2012 10:04 marvellosity wrote: But if you were really town then Dittert was 100% scum. A KB town wouldn't settle for anything other than a Dittert lynch, and you barely pushed for it. It should have been so transparent :x Edit: especially given the town is at lylo and must lynch scum... This is what confused me, from both a town and scum perspective -- Why, in either case, would you push so hard for a Xatalos lynch, when it's obvious that either one or the other of Dittert or KB absolutely 100% *MUST* be scum. Then from there, Xatalos took it the rest of the way with the Dittert needing to be actual DT or the claim makes no sense, and KB has to be scum. Simple -- if you think Dittert is fakeclaiming, you lynch Dittert. If not, lynch KB. I have absolutely no idea how you swung a Xatalos lynch out of that. We figured you just thought you had town outplayed so hard that you were just showing off or something. | ||
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ArcticFox
United States1092 Posts
On April 20 2012 13:02 Dittert wrote: GG. Thanks to Greymist and Snarfs for hosting. Thanks to the Mattchew, Jitsu, and DoYouHas for the coaching advice. If you guys can believe it, I actually did ask for coaching help (at least a little...). I guess my main question is this - I basically felt constantly ignored and written off the entire game. I thought this was hilarious in the obsQT: HiroPro - I feel bad for Dittert. His posting hasn't been great, but he's completely right about people ignoring him. Even when they're 100% sure he's a fake DT, they won't vote for him... What should I have done differently to make you listen to me more, especially since I didn't want to appear 100% uber-town with being DT and everything. I'm equally interested to hear from the people in the game as I am from the coaches/hosts who could give insight from experience. Specifically I'll tell you this, for at least when I was alive -- I had you pegged as a first time town player, making some off the wall suggestions and your town reads were really all over the place. But where I, personally, switched off and stopped listening to you was when you were in dire straits, arguing directly with willz and shitting up the thread, and after I asked you to stop it and seriously give me your reads, you fired that Princess Bride line at me, and promptly logged off without giving any info after that. If you're trying to come off as a helpful town, that was a serious fuck-up that made me completely stop listening to anything you said until your DT claim. The self-deprication on Day 2 where "nobody listens to dumb ol' Dittert" did you no favors of gaining town cred. Know what gains you town cred? Scumhunting, of which, due to either your work schedule or just frustration with the game over being called a scrub for 3 straight days, completely came to a halt. The only things that give off town cred are straight, decisive, logical cases (usually well-articulated helps). Hiro was doing it to some degree, and was really on the right track, but he lurked just a *little* bit too much, which got him lynched (I would have saved you Hiro! I knew you were blue! <3). That's why Acro, Xatalos, and I gained so much town cred, which was stripped from Xatalos as soon as people started pointing out how so many of his cases were logically flawed. The best advice I can give is go to our thread (or any Mafia thread running) and see who people in general are sheeping behind, or gravitating toward. Those are the styles of posts that give off a "oh yea, this guy is DEFINITELY town" vibe that makes people trust them. Petty arguments and off-handed remarks are at best going to make people stop listening to you, and at worst make them lynch you. Also, I have to ask -- why why WHY in God's name did you vote someone else after a red check on KB? Your rep in town was already shot, and that little maneuver I believe is a big reason why Town had such a hard time believing you were actually DT. | ||
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ArcticFox
United States1092 Posts
On April 20 2012 14:11 Dittert wrote: Second, I don't know how much stock to put into town cred. You had a bunch of it and got shot N1. Acro had a bunch of it, led us to a mislynch on D2, then got shot on N2. KB had a lot of it too, but he was fricking mafia!!! I guess I'm wondering what's the point of town cred when it didn't seem to do any good in this game (and actually cost us the game). Town cred is a very fickle thing. There's a reason that mafia don't try to reach out and grab it early on -- it's so hard to play consistently all game when you're mafia and know that you have to actually lie that you usually end up losing it before it does you any good (again, coming back around to why so many people turned on Xatalos, and he was even town!) One or two bad cases can make you lose it just as easily as one or two good cases can make you earn it. N2 you didn't have to make your town cred any lower -- you didn't *have* any. Nobody was listening to you. You weren't a threat to mafia. What you needed to do was put together a case on someone you had a suspicion on and make it stick and defend it, not yell at people and make them ignore you. As Hiro said, it made people ignore you so hard, they didn't even vote you when they thought the DT check was fake. And I have no idea why KB had so much town cred. I wanted someone to press him and make him talk. func too. allin as well. vK on Day 2. yomi coasted. Mafia got lucky with the BKE lynch on Day 1, then didn't really have to do much but coast after that. | ||
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ArcticFox
United States1092 Posts
On April 21 2012 01:56 jaj22 wrote: BKEXE did attempt to defend himself, but his defense was wrong. Mafia never attempt a last-minute switch on day 1 because it's so obviously scummy. You'd have simply lynched both Yomi and the switcher on day 2 and 3. Turns out he was honestly wrong. It happens  A more experienced town would have done exactly that -- lynch Yomi Day 1, and then probably BKE Day 2 unless he did some serious contributing. But that's why we play the newbie games -- to learn. | ||
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ArcticFox
United States1092 Posts
On April 21 2012 05:24 jaj22 wrote: Mafia bussing Yomi was the correct play given that town were clearly moving in that direction and there was no good alternative. I initially thought KB was a bit early on the bus, but he was under pressure because he'd accepted Willz's defence and he'd expressed suspicion of Yomi earlier. The other part is tricky. I'm inclined to think that you actually got the aggression balance about right in day 1 and the real problem was with players reacting poorly to it. It's something that's much less of a problem when players have more games between them. Being attacked when you're innocent is something that you have to get used to. For that reason there's no good way to play newbie games, so don't curtail your aggression just because it didn't work out in this game. If anything, you focused too narrowly from day 2, like the rest of town. Read as: MAKE THE LURKERS POST. ><><><><><><><>< *cough* >.> | ||
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ArcticFox
United States1092 Posts
On April 21 2012 06:05 jaj22 wrote: Well, it's not just lurkers. I have doubts that anyone read imallinson's filter properly (except funcmode, maybe), otherwise they should have been making a case. Players who weren't drawing attention to themselves were getting ignored. He was lurking pretty hard imo. And I had already said his filter was dripping red. He just stepped up a bit in Day 2, and there was so much distraction and already soooooooo many other targets. It was a tough game all around, to both obs and play. | ||
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