EPTNewbie Mini Mafia VIII - Page 2
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vonKlaust
Sweden158 Posts
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vonKlaust
Sweden158 Posts
Yes, me going with Xatalos against ArticFox was stupid. At the time, I tought the case looked strong, but looking back at it it doesn't seem that good of a case at all. I think I latched onto it because it was the only case going at the moment, and because I just didn't know what to do. I had a look at peoples filters, but I really felt that I couldn't find anything of value. It is true that I have not contributed that much when it comes to scum hunting. I've tried both to look at peoples filters and analyzing the thread in general, but pretty much to no avail until those posts by Xatalos caught my eye. So instead I tried to give feedback on other peoples ideas. | ||
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vonKlaust
Sweden158 Posts
Top Scum read is much harder. I still have a feeling that Dittert is just a confused townie. I think the whole RNG-thing have been blown out of proportions and I think his weak case against Willz might have been rushed since he felt pressured to contribute to the scumhunt. I'm unsure about Xatalos. While he have done a couple of potential scumslips he feels a tad to vocal for a mafia member. And those slips can just have been the result of bad reasoning, even though I doubt it. HiroPro also comes across as a bit suspiscious. The way he has just popped in a couple of times. Both of the times short after someone called him out as lurking. It makes me feel he is actively lurking. I would like HiroPro to write more, but for now I think I'll go with Xatalos as my prime suspect. | ||
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vonKlaust
Sweden158 Posts
I'm leaning strongly towards imallinson at this point because he hasn't posted anything unique for himself, he's been hiding behind supporting your case against Arcticfox. Other reads I have now I am not willing to divulge at this point so they don't get defensive early, I'm curious to see how some of my suspects proceed as we still have 29 hours to go till deadline. I'll post a case on my vote target after I collect more evidence. + Show Spoiler + http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=14320800 I would like you to get into specifics on why you're leaning towards imallinson. And maybe it's time to talk about those other reads. Who's your top town candidate? | ||
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vonKlaust
Sweden158 Posts
On April 13 2012 06:54 Xatalos wrote: Right now I'm leaning the most towards vonKlaust. Here are the parts of his posts I'm most suspicious about: + Show Spoiler + On April 12 2012 21:36 vonKlaust wrote: Ok, I must disappointedly admit that I feel pretty lost. So far I think most cases have felt a bit rushed, but I guess that could be because I'm simply not used to this kind of speculative reasoning. I do however think that Xatalos case on ArticFox seems to carry some truth. If I would have to vote right now, I would probably go with this. Both the blue-talk and the policy lynching-talk seems a bit odd. I guess you could agrue that ArticFox could be blue himself, but it doesn't strike me as very natural behaviour to talk so much about blues if you are one yourself since you would desperately want to stay hidden. I'm not quite as confident about this as Xatalos seems to be, but to me this seems to be the best analysis so far. This post is just... Very indecisive and unproductive. He tries to ride on his own newbieness/confusion without providing anything other than vague or pointless remarks. What is that part about ArcticFox's possible blue role even supposed to mean? Could it be that same Mafia slip I thought I already saw in ArcticFox's posts? On April 12 2012 23:24 vonKlaust wrote: Well, I AM confused. And I can agree that I come across as somebody who doesn't take solid stances. I don't know alot about this game, and I try to be humble to that fact. I say what I think, but you're likely not gonna see me write something like "I am perfectly comfident this is how we should play this game" or "I know for a fact that X is scum". That's just not how my brain works. Again he is trying to hide behind his confusion/newbieness. I find it suspicious how he keeps repeating how confused he is. Even if you are truly confused, why spend your energy explaining to others that you are a useless and confused townie? On April 13 2012 05:43 vonKlaust wrote: I still have a feeling that Dittert is just a confused townie. I think the whole RNG-thing have been blown out of proportions and I think his weak case against Willz might have been rushed since he felt pressured to contribute to the scumhunt. I'm unsure about Xatalos. While he have done a couple of potential scumslips he feels a tad to vocal for a mafia member. And those slips can just have been the result of bad reasoning, even though I doubt it. HiroPro also comes across as a bit suspiscious. The way he has just popped in a couple of times. Both of the times short after someone called him out as lurking. It makes me feel he is actively lurking. I would like HiroPro to write more, but for now I think I'll go with Xatalos as my prime suspect. That comment about Dittert being a "confused townie" adds fuel to the fire that you attempting to make "being confused" a state where everything is forgiven - there should never be free passes for being confused/newb, not for you, not for Dittert. I also have to wonder how I am now your "prime suspect", although earlier you jumped eagerly on my case against ArcticFox. You also mentioned ONLY me as your suspect, for some reason. I want to hear some reasonable excuse for this. Am I truly the biggest/only Mafia read you have so far for making a slightly faulty case to get things going? ##Unvote ##Vote: vonKlaust I just made a post about me acting indecisive and unproductive in the beginning of the game. While I'm sure it won't give you much comfort, since I basically agree that was the case, but that is the plain truth. You can find it here: + Show Spoiler + http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=14321898 This post is just... Very indecisive and unproductive. He tries to ride on his own newbieness/confusion without providing anything other than vague or pointless remarks. What is that part about ArcticFox's possible blue role even supposed to mean? Could it be that same Mafia slip I thought I already saw in ArcticFox's posts? You're really for jumping to conclussions aren't you? What I meant was exactly what i said: I guess you could agrue that ArticFox could be blue himself, but it doesn't strike me as very natural behaviour to talk so much about blues if you are one yourself since you would desperately want to stay hidden. To me, it seems more likely for a newbie mafia to write about blue roles than for a newbie blue. I wrote this to combat a possible argument against him being scum. How is this indecisive with what at the time were my suspicions? I basically agreed with what you were saying. Wouldn't that make you more of a scumslipper than me? That comment about Dittert being a "confused townie" adds fuel to the fire that you attempting to make "being confused" a state where everything is forgiven - there should never be free passes for being confused/newb, not for you, not for Dittert. I also have to wonder how I am now your "prime suspect", although earlier you jumped eagerly on my case against ArcticFox. You also mentioned ONLY me as your suspect, for some reason. I want to hear some reasonable excuse for this. Am I truly the biggest/only Mafia read you have so far for making a slightly faulty case to get things going? The fact that I called Dittert out as a confused townie don't have anything to do with that I felt very confused in the beginning of the game, except for the fact that I can understand how he would feel as a confused townie. Ofc I can have you as my prime suspect even though I(probably wrongly) supported your case against ArticFox. I can't see how you think that is wierd. At the time I didn't have anything on you, and I thought your claims were reasonable. Now, I have something on you, and I no longer think your claims were reasonable. See? And as I wrote in my post about you being my prime suspect: No, you're not my only suspect. I also pointed out HiroPro as someone I think is playing in a way which is very negative for town, which makes me suspect him. And also, as you would see if you would actually read my posts, my suspicions against you have nothing to do with your actual case against ArticFox. It was the fact that you tried to justify your case on other grounds than it being a good case. Also, I think that I have actually started to be much more productive than earlier. I'm getting more used to this, and now there is more to go on. I am the first to agree with that I wasn't very productive before. | ||
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vonKlaust
Sweden158 Posts
Wow, you guys have to start reading my posts. What you're claiming: 1. I suspected Xatalos 2. I supported his case. What actually happened: 1. Xatalos made a case. 2. I supported the case. 3. I no longer supported the case. 4. I started to susspect Xatalos. And by the way: First you voted Xatalos. Later you wrote: Please explain to me how I am bandwagoning onto Xatalos when I am the only person that is voting for him and the first person to outright say that he is scum (Kharad gave a very wishy-washy response where he said that Xatalos is slightly suspicious). Then, without ever writing anything about that you're starting to doubt your suspicions or anything along those lines: ##Unvote: Xatalos ##Vote: vonKlaust Isn't this exactly what you're accusing me of? | ||
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vonKlaust
Sweden158 Posts
On April 13 2012 07:57 HiroPro wrote: 1. Xatalos makes bad case. 2. I vote for Xatalos. 3. Broodking asks why I'm "bandwagoning Xatalos" (lololol) 4. I respond 5. Xatalos makes good case. 6. I trust Xatalos more and see similar suspicious behavior as Xatalos does in vonKaust. I vote for vonKlaust. This is so contradictory. Why on earth would you support the case of the person who you most believe to be mafia??? | ||
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vonKlaust
Sweden158 Posts
##Vote: HiroPro | ||
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vonKlaust
Sweden158 Posts
This is so contradictory. Why on earth would you support the case of the person who you most believe to be mafia??? Was bullshit? | ||
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vonKlaust
Sweden158 Posts
Alright, I see where you're comming from. I do still think it's pretty wierd, even though it might not be totally logically inconcistent. As Willz put it: You originally suspect him for a bad case but as long as he posts one you agree with, it makes it okay? Why did you even think he was mafia from the start if all you had to go on was him making a bad case? Making a bad case is not the same thing as being scum. @Willz I voted for HiroPro because he started to switch around the casuality. And his inconcistancy on changing suspects. On the matter of casuality he claimed: 1. I suspected Xatalos 2. I supported his case. What actually happened: 1. Xatalos made a case. 2. I supported the case. 3. I no longer supported the case. 4. I started to susspect Xatalos. As I wrote before, I can agree with that what he wrote isn't totally inconcistant, it's still wierd. | ||
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vonKlaust
Sweden158 Posts
##unvote For now. | ||
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vonKlaust
Sweden158 Posts
Now that you know that I didn't support Xatalos while suspecting him, what do you think of my answer to Xatalos case? | ||
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vonKlaust
Sweden158 Posts
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vonKlaust
Sweden158 Posts
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vonKlaust
Sweden158 Posts
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vonKlaust
Sweden158 Posts
On April 13 2012 10:13 willz22912 wrote: Why are you continuing to waste discussion trying to drive a vote on me. I'm not even pushing for your lynch, what are you trying to accomplish? You won't even name anyone else suspicious besides myself and Yomi (who already is lurking and has a vote on him) You need to back off and stop tunneling on me already unless you've got more proof of my intentions? If you're going to be at work and you're going to miss the voting cutoff, why should town go along with your cases. You won't be around to support them and refute accusations, you basically say that you're going to be inactive and giving yourself an excuse to lurk, this is unacceptable. You are playing really poorly for town, I've given you numerous chances to prove yourself but now you're just being useless and sidetracking discussion. I'm going to stop defending you against people trying to lynch you. You also have no opinion on the numerous people who are trying to lynch you? And voting Yomi but saying "no it isn't OMGUS" doesn't exactly explain yourself, without any good reasoning you're still making essentially an OMGUS vote on him as well as me. What is this "lie" that you claim can be proven to be false and how does it on have any bearing on whether Yomi is scum or not? For your town reads, really, KB is at the top of your list because he didn't jump to vote you? Also, what's with the random vote of confidence for imallinson, "he seems normal?" Really? What about his behavior that Xatalos and I commented on? I think this part is interesting. Earlier in the thread he wrote + Show Spoiler + On April 13 2012 03:34 willz22912 wrote: If you want to be more active and useful for town yourself, take a moment and just pick a player (preferably someone not already under suspicion) and post your opinion on that person (including me if you want) whether he is looking pro-town, neutral, or anti-town. Don't lurk for fear of nothing to say. Try and contribute, and getting posts down where people can judge your reasoning and have a mental history of your opinions will be the reason you stay alive versus being targetted for lurking. This is targeted towards the players with less than a page of filter at this point. It's still midway through D1, but you need to step it up. Not only have Willz not done this himself, but Dittert is pretty much doing what Willz is asking here. He looks into Willz filter and determines he thinks Willz look wierd. Instead of propperly judging his reasoning like Willz said would be the thing we should do he appeals to Dittert's loyalty by writing: I've given you numerous chances to prove yourself but now you're just being useless and sidetracking discussion. I'm going to stop defending you against people trying to lynch you. and I'm not even pushing for your lynch, what are you trying to accomplish? Willz says he have done alot of contributing, but he really has not. Earlier he responded to my explanation to BroodKing by writing: + Show Spoiler + On April 13 2012 05:31 willz22912 wrote: Feedback on other people's ideas is not enough. You just recently made a post about Xatalos' case against Arcticfox when numerous people have already commented on it. Post your top scum read or top town read and have a unique opinion. But when asked to contribute and share his own opinions we get: + Show Spoiler + On April 13 2012 03:23 willz22912 wrote: I'm leaning strongly towards imallinson at this point because he hasn't posted anything unique for himself, he's been hiding behind supporting your case against Arcticfox. Other reads I have now I am not willing to divulge at this point so they don't get defensive early, I'm curious to see how some of my suspects proceed as we still have 29 hours to go till deadline. I'll post a case on my vote target after I collect more evidence. On April 13 2012 06:19 willz22912 wrote: I'm waiting on responses from at least half the thread, I'm not going to make a case based on this little posting, that's not going to convince anyone. I will have a case written up and posted at least 4-5 hours before deadline tomorrow(~1-2pm est), so that's enough time for discussion. Specifically, I'm calling out Yomi, BroodkingExe, HiroPro, imallinson, trumpetarm to post something, at least either their top town or scum read and their own opinions. I'm tired of seeing people pick on the easiest targets with little to no explanation. A very thin accusation of imallinson, and a promise to contribute later. I am very curious why you would even be suspicious of anyone in the first place when you're at the same time saying that your case wouldn't convince anyone and that you need more evidence. I didn't think of this earlier, but this doesn't make much sense to me. He has actually done what he accused me of. He has mostly been giving feedback to other peoples posts. When he haven't done that he have been writing general posts about how we should behave as town. I get the feeling that Willz is playing with an agenda. He hasn't contributed all that much, but he claims he has, and he quickly established some kind of leader role for town. I have a feeling that this: + Show Spoiler + On April 13 2012 02:58 willz22912 wrote: Newbie town are scared to voice their opinion so they latch onto a strong leader, but then if that leader is really mafia, then we have a bad situation for town. is what's happening. | ||
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vonKlaust
Sweden158 Posts
##Vote: willz22912 We'll see if he gets the promised killer case going. | ||
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vonKlaust
Sweden158 Posts
His contributing has been absolutely minimal. | ||
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vonKlaust
Sweden158 Posts
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vonKlaust
Sweden158 Posts
I said you were my prime suspect, but I was and am far from sure that you are mafia. I don't agree with that I have had a persistant focus on you. I still maintain the stance that you could be mafia and I think that the chances for you being mafia is higher than others in the thread, but for now I think that Willz and Hiro are far safer bets. This is what I wrote about you when asked to pick top scum candidate: I'm unsure about Xatalos. While he have done a couple of potential scumslips he feels a tad to vocal for a mafia member. And those slips can just have been the result of bad reasoning, even though I doubt it. This is my reasoning for writing that: + Show Spoiler + On April 13 2012 04:06 vonKlaust wrote: This is fallacious. Of course it's better for the crooks to try to put forward some solid evidence together with joining a lynch than to just, as you put it, sheepishly vote once a very easy target has been found. Not only does it make the chances of the target actually getting lynched, but it also makes them look towny. I can accept that you would rather focus at ArticFox, but this explanation is NOT sufficient for dropping your suspicions on Iamallison To me this looks like a potential scum slip. On April 13 2012 04:46 vonKlaust wrote: I went back to research Xatalos filter after this incident: + Show Spoiler + http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=14321137 And found this piece of text. This strikes me as pretty awkward. Not only is he trying to justify his case by saying that it generated discussion, but he also proposes to push another lynch target, not because he thinks that ArticFox is a bad lynch, but because "It would make it too easy for Mafia to blend in". Of course pushing for lynches generates discussion, but that does not justify pushing bad lynches. Of course you can use votes to pressure, but your vote against ArticFox don't really come across as a pressure vote to me. Also it feels a bit wierd that you seem so decisive while still saying stuff like "By no means is ArticFox a must-lynch for me" and "I'm all for pushing another lynch target". Especially when you earlier in the game wrote stuff like: It feels like you're trying to get out of the lynch-train you created in the first place, while still maintaining ArticFox as a prime suspect. As far as I can tell, you didn't really ever back down from your claims. You just went defensive when people started to criticize your case. | ||
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