EPTOn April 11 2012 04:32 gonzaw wrote:
Final thoughts about Toad:
First of all, here's his filter this game:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=325046&user=40853
And here are the filters from his last 3 games as town (if I recall correctly):
Storm Mafia: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=313426&user=40853
Arkham City: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=305850&user=40853
L: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=253716&user=40853
And here is the filter of the game he was scum:
XLVIII: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=291212&user=40853
Now that I checked his scum game from 48, one thing that caught my eye was his similar "wall of text" style when discussing mostly pointless things, like here:
For instance, he starts babbling about a previous game of his, which is just pointless filler.
Something similar to some of his posts this game:
+ Show Spoiler +
+ Show Spoiler +
Now compare it to his filter in L for instance, he posts things like this:
He cares more about the game, and comments on several matters like BC's mason claim, etc; and most importantly tries to be part of the discussion by asking people their reads.
In AC, you can see he starts posting concisely, and his posts have a point, and are not all verbose filler stuff, for instance this:
He posts his stance on lurkers, which is concise and to the point, unlike this wall of text here:
You can also see in AC how he comments on a lot of players.
He comments about layabout, Palmar, Radfield, BM, Kenpachi, hiro, etc, etc ,etc; unlike this game where he solely focuses on a handful of players and ignores the rest.
On Storm Mafia now.
Yes, he posts some walls of text there, but they don't seem too verbose and seem to have more content in them, for instance this one:
Gigantic wall of text.
Yet he comments on various situations, comments about various people he thinks is scum.
I have to admit his style in Storm is more similar to his style here than his other past games, but I still don't think it's similar enough.
For instance he still pressures some people
And he gives more thoughts on other players and most importantly he discusses the current events happening in the thread and cares about it
Here is what I thought about his posting style earlier in the game:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=325046¤tpage=22#440
And here is what I thought about his contributions and behaviour earlier on:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=325046¤tpage=49#969
Sorry guys, I don't have more time to make this post better, I'm going to uni right now and I won't be back before the deadline, so I'm posting this right now to make my stance on Toad known.
I hope this is enough to show you guys what I thought about his style and behaviour, so you guys can form a better opinion on him.
Final thoughts about Toad:
First of all, here's his filter this game:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=325046&user=40853
And here are the filters from his last 3 games as town (if I recall correctly):
Storm Mafia: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=313426&user=40853
Arkham City: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=305850&user=40853
L: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=253716&user=40853
And here is the filter of the game he was scum:
XLVIII: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=291212&user=40853
Now that I checked his scum game from 48, one thing that caught my eye was his similar "wall of text" style when discussing mostly pointless things, like here:
For instance, he starts babbling about a previous game of his, which is just pointless filler.
Something similar to some of his posts this game:
+ Show Spoiler +
On April 10 2012 03:48 Toadesstern wrote:
Are you kidding me? You asked like 6 guys what they think about me and EVERYONE said they don't think anything you said about me is alignment indicating.
The bolded part has something to do with you because it apparently shows you have no idea what to look for when scumhunting because you think guy-plays-bad = mafia. You said me discrediting you while saying you're looking townish is something weird when it's actually not at all weird. You want me to OMGUS just because of your case that everyone in here agrees is bullshit? Would that make me look townish in your book? I hope not and I desperatly hope that you take a step back an overthink your stance here. You've been tunneling me all day long with no support at all yet you keep on doing that.
Again, that doesn't make you mafia, that makes you stupid and I'm going to quote my very first post
You're going that road right now if you keep on like that. So please, I still think you're a townie. Take a step back and just for once try going after someone else. You've got more than enough resistance on your case about me (as in people telling you it's bullshit / it's a null), yet you keep on and actually tell me there's a couple of people thinking the same way.
About your question on VE and Janaan: I'm going to answer this question and it's going to be the last one I answer for you because you make it sound like I am trying to not answer questions (saying I dodged the question about tunkeg 10 times which is a blatant lie) when in reality I am answering every single question you guys are asking me to a point wbg said he thinks that I should ignore those things and post less. So PLEASE stop pretending I'm ignoring questions when I am not.
VE looks really weird. I don't think his play is off. However I had the same feeling about him in C9++ where I said that I'd probably instalynch VE as a townie based on the fact that he changed his style so weirdly in that game. So it's the same as Tunkeg: I'm getting a weird feeling and I'm not sure if I like that or not. I'd like to give him more time as well as I think I'm pretty decent in figuring out VE. I called him mafia in Storm (SK), I called him mafia in AC (mafia) and I called him a liar who's fakeclaiming on purpose in L which made me think he'd be a mafia in that game. The liar who fakeclaimed was right but the mafia read was wrong. So again, I'd like to see some more from VE to properly understand what I'm seeing from him this game.
Janaan is one of those new guys I've been talking talking about. I never played a game with him and lynching him to me looks like lynching any other scummy lurker. So I'd rather shoot him instead of lynching him as I said earlier but given we've got so many lurkers we might have to lynch into those due to cheer numbers.
I'd rather lynch into people like Ghost and Hassybaby right now. Ghost because I think he's faking. Hassy because he seems to be lurking on purpose. He did 1 or 2 posts d1 (RL d1) and did nothing today. I posted something about him and that he's one of the guys I like to lynch because he's not a classical lurker but rather someone who's barely above that edge of being a lurker. He delurks and responds with
which is still an empty promise he did as he never started to post something after that post except for his EBWOP to vote for someone.
I don't think lynching into lurkers would be bad but I think it's like a shot into the blue to some degree. I think lynching someone like ghost or Hassy would be more of an accurate move rather than shooting into a group of something like 7 or 8 people which mafia can easily manipulate into making us lynch the wrong guys.
However I have yet to see someone tell me what they think about ghost and hassy as people seem to ignore those 2 which is again, only making me feel more comfortable.
Are you kidding me? You asked like 6 guys what they think about me and EVERYONE said they don't think anything you said about me is alignment indicating.
The bolded part has something to do with you because it apparently shows you have no idea what to look for when scumhunting because you think guy-plays-bad = mafia. You said me discrediting you while saying you're looking townish is something weird when it's actually not at all weird. You want me to OMGUS just because of your case that everyone in here agrees is bullshit? Would that make me look townish in your book? I hope not and I desperatly hope that you take a step back an overthink your stance here. You've been tunneling me all day long with no support at all yet you keep on doing that.
Again, that doesn't make you mafia, that makes you stupid and I'm going to quote my very first post
You're going that road right now if you keep on like that. So please, I still think you're a townie. Take a step back and just for once try going after someone else. You've got more than enough resistance on your case about me (as in people telling you it's bullshit / it's a null), yet you keep on and actually tell me there's a couple of people thinking the same way.
About your question on VE and Janaan: I'm going to answer this question and it's going to be the last one I answer for you because you make it sound like I am trying to not answer questions (saying I dodged the question about tunkeg 10 times which is a blatant lie) when in reality I am answering every single question you guys are asking me to a point wbg said he thinks that I should ignore those things and post less. So PLEASE stop pretending I'm ignoring questions when I am not.
VE looks really weird. I don't think his play is off. However I had the same feeling about him in C9++ where I said that I'd probably instalynch VE as a townie based on the fact that he changed his style so weirdly in that game. So it's the same as Tunkeg: I'm getting a weird feeling and I'm not sure if I like that or not. I'd like to give him more time as well as I think I'm pretty decent in figuring out VE. I called him mafia in Storm (SK), I called him mafia in AC (mafia) and I called him a liar who's fakeclaiming on purpose in L which made me think he'd be a mafia in that game. The liar who fakeclaimed was right but the mafia read was wrong. So again, I'd like to see some more from VE to properly understand what I'm seeing from him this game.
Janaan is one of those new guys I've been talking talking about. I never played a game with him and lynching him to me looks like lynching any other scummy lurker. So I'd rather shoot him instead of lynching him as I said earlier but given we've got so many lurkers we might have to lynch into those due to cheer numbers.
I'd rather lynch into people like Ghost and Hassybaby right now. Ghost because I think he's faking. Hassy because he seems to be lurking on purpose. He did 1 or 2 posts d1 (RL d1) and did nothing today. I posted something about him and that he's one of the guys I like to lynch because he's not a classical lurker but rather someone who's barely above that edge of being a lurker. He delurks and responds with
which is still an empty promise he did as he never started to post something after that post except for his EBWOP to vote for someone.
I don't think lynching into lurkers would be bad but I think it's like a shot into the blue to some degree. I think lynching someone like ghost or Hassy would be more of an accurate move rather than shooting into a group of something like 7 or 8 people which mafia can easily manipulate into making us lynch the wrong guys.
However I have yet to see someone tell me what they think about ghost and hassy as people seem to ignore those 2 which is again, only making me feel more comfortable.
+ Show Spoiler +
On April 10 2012 21:59 Toadesstern wrote:
Sup guys. lynch Hassy tomorrow, lynch VE the day after that and we win.
Also here's an awesome laya-style flowchart. It's really easy and explains what to do as a DT this night considering me:
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/maYpH.jpg)
That being said. Still reading the last 5 pages and I'm only a little (!) pissed right now. I need someone to stop me from raging though, if people like gonzaw keep on beeing gonzaw because I'm going to find a way to punch them in the face via Internet (@GM: Don't worry that's just an euphemism for getting him killed in this game and I'm not actually talking about punching him in the face).
Also since there seems to be some idiots (read: Gonzaw and VE, pretty sure VE is a mafia who's being stupid on purpose though) suggesting shooting me would be awesome I'd like people to consider me and Jackal as medic protection targets as well.
Although people keep thinking about my AC performance all the time because that shit was seriously hilarious I am actually quite good as townie myself imo. Remember L? People wanted to kill me because I was right ALL THE TIME with my mafia reads and they thought I bussed 4 out of my X ( don't remember how many mafias that game had) to look townish because people didn't believe my reads were better than those people like wbg, SS and so on had. Remember the mason log with SS wbg?
In 50 I killed half of the mafias myself. In Storm I was on WBG's ass (who everyone considers to be a really good mafia player) and VE's ass from day1 on (well and RoL but everyone knew RoL was mafia so that probably doesn't count) and sadly noone listened to me and kept lynching whatever wbg wanted to be lynched. That being said I think I'm quite good myself and would like to be alive tomorrow :3
You may ask "Toad why are you painting a big red cross above your head right now? You're making yourself a big target right now". But fear not because VE is mafia and he actually knows that I'm not retarded and am very much capable to find a shitload of mafias early on and the biggest flaw in my game is properly expressing what I found in people and why they are actually mafia so basicly I'm already a target.
I sincerely doubt a townie vig would shoot into wbg or Jackal that early in the game because those two clearly are the best 2 players in this game. So any shots on wbg or Jackal would be from mafia imo, although it's very much a possibility that one of them or even both are mafia. Not sure about their alignment yet but you never know. Worst case would be you waste a medic on a vet who turns out to be mafia. Yeah sounds stupid but it's not the end of the world. Losing Town-WBG or Town-Jackal however would be tough. The important thing here is that a : Townie shot a mafia and townie saved mafia from death can't happen because no one would be crazy enough to shoot into those 2 as a townie.
However I don't like VE requesting medic protection for him and wbg only that being said I think Jackal is a decent target as well and I myself obviously don't want to die because some Jackass thought suggesting to shoot me is a good idea because gonzaw is shitting up the thread making it look like I'm a good target while actually dozens of people tell him that I'm not.
(hint hint: There's a limited number of mafias in this game, don't tell me I've got 10 mafia buddies who are telling lies to protect me)
About the DT: Whatever... If you really think I am suspicious go ahead and check me but I'd rather see you try and find mafia somewhere else because you won't find any at my place. It really comes down to the flowchart I did. There's litereally only 1 guy in this thread who thinks I am suspicious and keeps barking and barking no matter how many people tell him he's got nothing that makes me look either one way or the other.
Sup guys. lynch Hassy tomorrow, lynch VE the day after that and we win.
Also here's an awesome laya-style flowchart. It's really easy and explains what to do as a DT this night considering me:
That being said. Still reading the last 5 pages and I'm only a little (!) pissed right now. I need someone to stop me from raging though, if people like gonzaw keep on beeing gonzaw because I'm going to find a way to punch them in the face via Internet (@GM: Don't worry that's just an euphemism for getting him killed in this game and I'm not actually talking about punching him in the face).
Also since there seems to be some idiots (read: Gonzaw and VE, pretty sure VE is a mafia who's being stupid on purpose though) suggesting shooting me would be awesome I'd like people to consider me and Jackal as medic protection targets as well.
Although people keep thinking about my AC performance all the time because that shit was seriously hilarious I am actually quite good as townie myself imo. Remember L? People wanted to kill me because I was right ALL THE TIME with my mafia reads and they thought I bussed 4 out of my X ( don't remember how many mafias that game had) to look townish because people didn't believe my reads were better than those people like wbg, SS and so on had. Remember the mason log with SS wbg?
In 50 I killed half of the mafias myself. In Storm I was on WBG's ass (who everyone considers to be a really good mafia player) and VE's ass from day1 on (well and RoL but everyone knew RoL was mafia so that probably doesn't count) and sadly noone listened to me and kept lynching whatever wbg wanted to be lynched. That being said I think I'm quite good myself and would like to be alive tomorrow :3
You may ask "Toad why are you painting a big red cross above your head right now? You're making yourself a big target right now". But fear not because VE is mafia and he actually knows that I'm not retarded and am very much capable to find a shitload of mafias early on and the biggest flaw in my game is properly expressing what I found in people and why they are actually mafia so basicly I'm already a target.
I sincerely doubt a townie vig would shoot into wbg or Jackal that early in the game because those two clearly are the best 2 players in this game. So any shots on wbg or Jackal would be from mafia imo, although it's very much a possibility that one of them or even both are mafia. Not sure about their alignment yet but you never know. Worst case would be you waste a medic on a vet who turns out to be mafia. Yeah sounds stupid but it's not the end of the world. Losing Town-WBG or Town-Jackal however would be tough. The important thing here is that a : Townie shot a mafia and townie saved mafia from death can't happen because no one would be crazy enough to shoot into those 2 as a townie.
However I don't like VE requesting medic protection for him and wbg only that being said I think Jackal is a decent target as well and I myself obviously don't want to die because some Jackass thought suggesting to shoot me is a good idea because gonzaw is shitting up the thread making it look like I'm a good target while actually dozens of people tell him that I'm not.
(hint hint: There's a limited number of mafias in this game, don't tell me I've got 10 mafia buddies who are telling lies to protect me)
About the DT: Whatever... If you really think I am suspicious go ahead and check me but I'd rather see you try and find mafia somewhere else because you won't find any at my place. It really comes down to the flowchart I did. There's litereally only 1 guy in this thread who thinks I am suspicious and keeps barking and barking no matter how many people tell him he's got nothing that makes me look either one way or the other.
Now compare it to his filter in L for instance, he posts things like this:
He cares more about the game, and comments on several matters like BC's mason claim, etc; and most importantly tries to be part of the discussion by asking people their reads.
In AC, you can see he starts posting concisely, and his posts have a point, and are not all verbose filler stuff, for instance this:
![[image loading]](http://mail.is/palmar/derp.jpg)
He posts his stance on lurkers, which is concise and to the point, unlike this wall of text here:
You can also see in AC how he comments on a lot of players.
He comments about layabout, Palmar, Radfield, BM, Kenpachi, hiro, etc, etc ,etc; unlike this game where he solely focuses on a handful of players and ignores the rest.
On Storm Mafia now.
Yes, he posts some walls of text there, but they don't seem too verbose and seem to have more content in them, for instance this one:
Gigantic wall of text.
Yet he comments on various situations, comments about various people he thinks is scum.
I have to admit his style in Storm is more similar to his style here than his other past games, but I still don't think it's similar enough.
For instance he still pressures some people
And he gives more thoughts on other players and most importantly he discusses the current events happening in the thread and cares about it
Here is what I thought about his posting style earlier in the game:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=325046¤tpage=22#440
And here is what I thought about his contributions and behaviour earlier on:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=325046¤tpage=49#969
Sorry guys, I don't have more time to make this post better, I'm going to uni right now and I won't be back before the deadline, so I'm posting this right now to make my stance on Toad known.
I hope this is enough to show you guys what I thought about his style and behaviour, so you guys can form a better opinion on him.
Final thoughts about gonzaw's case:
You are picking several things, looking into my filter trying to find what fits. Everything you said fits into multiple games and not only the ones who quoted.
1) For instance me quoting other games, ask wbg about my thoughts on BH in storm. I quoted an older game, quoted what happened that game (the older game was L) and said something along the lines "sad it's going to happen again" talking about how town will want to lynch me after a BH lynch no matter what because I was the only one saying he's town. I was town in that game, but you of course know that.
2) You're saying I am caring more about the game and giving more reads as town. That's a blatant lie. In 48 people said they thought I was the most likely guy to be a townie. People said that because I was caring so much about the game and was dishing out reads as crazy playing very open.
3) Gigantic walls of texts. I really do those all the time, nothing more to say about that.
[u]4) You admit my style in storm is more similar to the style you think I am playing right now than the other 3 games ( L and AC and 48 ) yet you say that's a reason that makes me scummy because it's still too different from storm?
5) Discussing current event Yeah that's probably wbg's influence from cohosting his game and the one from BC after AC. WBG is the kind of guy who likes to sit back and watch. I am not, not at all. However both BC (after AC) and WBG told me I seriously need to post less about what's happening in the thread and let it develop itself while watching what's happening. Believe it or not, I think I am pretty awesome at this game but I'm not perfect and I am still changing where I think I've got flaws.
Again, everything you pointed out is a nulltell. You are tunneling me. You think I am mafia therefore you're looking into my filter looking what fits and picking everything out of different games. This game is not working that way gonzaw, not at all.
You're still going to die tomorrow. Will ignore you from now on, clearly there's noone giving a damn about what you think and obviously you're mafia or a lost case (which I highly doubt at this point in time).
I explain everything you ask and you keep on like that although everyone tells you you're wrong and it's a null, there's just no point in takling to you.
And I am not writing this because I want to explain this to you. I am writing this because you are very vocal about me and I don't want some Jackas to just do what you say and shoot me when everyone else who thinks that you're wrong aren't vocal at all about it because I'm already shitting up the thread more than enough, still don't want to die, so sorry for this last answer everyone but I really had to...
)
