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Blazinghand
United States25558 Posts
On April 04 2012 18:54 Hassybaby wrote: Oh, and sorry BH, we had to write the kill flavour based on your blog :D I thought it was awesome :D except for the part where I left my windows down in the rain ;_; | ||
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Hassybaby
United Kingdom10823 Posts
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Bluelightz
Indonesia2463 Posts
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froggynoddy
United Kingdom452 Posts
On April 04 2012 10:10 Hesmyrr wrote: Thanks to everyone for playing my game! Theme I wanted to go for in this game was two formerly antagonistic factions forced to work together in face of common enemy. You can see this in my design for PR. The cops are extremely weakened because they classify players of different nationality also as 'enemy' (Hint to anyone that might wish to join my future games: I despise alignment checks. You can always expect them to be weakened to throw some doubt in the investigation result). Doctors as had been pointed out actually work better in absence of their partner, though of course if there had been obvious town leader they would've been pretty good. The blues were probably weak, but - like most of my setups - their value was in its claim-ability anyway. Because all power role were in pairs it required scum to invest two players in order to fake claim. PR could also be expected to claim and meet lessened suspicion because of this fact. Considering that scum also want to shoot good players, these four power roles can become hindrance merely by existing; I thought town would be in decent position if cccalf had been lynched D2 and mafia forced to waste their shot on decidedly mediocre MrZentor. That is why I found the hypothesis that there might be six blue roles in the game surprising because role claim downright breaks the game. In fact, this set-up was initially open setup until Foolishness wisely pointed out mass role-claim D1 would be too strong. As in regards to the game itself, both QT contain extra analyses I could never hope to give. It was mostly straight-forward anyway; the mafia outplayed the town. One example of why ability to separate poor player from scum is more important than one might think. All the discussion about Cyber_Cheese applies here. Thanks for hosting, I do agree with others that this set up was kinda hard for town, but that's not a criticism in my eyes. Maybe allowing PMs would be interesting as this would allow for Power Roles to be more effective (e.g. one DT declares on thread, medics can protect him, other DT can contact him privately), just a thought. Would love to play in your games in the future regardless of theme :D Well played Gonzaw, I had you pegged as town (as well as C3 i fact... am going to have to seriously analyse those assumptions I was making), I should have identified you as soft buddying me, congratulations you have no made me paranoid in all future games  . You guys used 3C's abseteeism well. Good kills N1 (that and NrZ's trolling fucked everything up for town IMO). I had BL and ET pegged though (got a read+guilty check with high far higher likelihood of Mafia giving me a guilty read). thanks for the game all, hopefully will improve in future games. gg | ||
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froggynoddy
United Kingdom452 Posts
On April 04 2012 13:19 Blazinghand wrote: I find giving up, ESPECIALLY at LYLO, to be unforgivable for a townie. If you give up, that means you stop playing to your wincon. I don't know how anyone finds this to be acceptable play. Even when there's almost no chance whatsoever to stop your own lynch, and even if it's LYLO and the game is about to be over, you die with your finger on the motherfucking trigger and push your scumreads. Anything less is a death without honor. Yeah I honestly believe that MrZ, Sinensis and to a lesser degree C_C went against this: Play to win. This means you play your best to help your team win while you are alive and in the game. However, this does not mean that you should try to win by being a jerk to the other players so they all want to quit playing. Thus fucking up any clean reads we could have made on them. However I realise I really wasn't the most pro-active player, but this will hopefully change as I become more confident in playing the game. | ||
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Cyber_Cheese
Australia3615 Posts
On April 04 2012 20:26 froggynoddy wrote: Yeah I honestly believe that MrZ, Sinensis and to a lesser degree C_C went against this: Thus fucking up any clean reads we could have made on them. However I realise I really wasn't the most pro-active player, but this will hopefully change as I become more confident in playing the game. Nonsense. Had you listened to me day 1, or at least questioned why anybody should ever listen to VE, we would have lynched scum. | ||
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froggynoddy
United Kingdom452 Posts
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Blazinghand
United States25558 Posts
C_C played sub-optimally but he was still trying to win. The case against him WAS pretty crappy and he did try to push his reads. He was just busy during the 4-5 hours leading up to lynch deadline. Could he have done more? definitely. C_C is capable of more. But he did try to win-- he pushed his reads, and to be honest, as the ONLY PERSON IN THE GAME WHO LISTENED TO HIM, I can tell you that he outplayed several town players D1 and even if he seemed scummy should not have been lynched. The blood of his death stains your hands, not his. MrZ isn't THAT guilty imo. Was his D2 play horrifically bad? Imo, yes. But he DID claim doctor, then get lynched. I fault him for his effectiveness, helpfulness, and goodness of play, but he definitely did not want to get lynched. A fool, not a knave. Sinensis even kinda gave up, but again I feel this is more a function of "shitty play" than "didn't want to win". The town atmosphere D3 was well under control of the scumteam. People were discouraged and morale was bad. Sinensis didn't defend himself as well as he could. A fool, not a knave. That being said, I feel that all three of these guys died like punks, through a combination of town actions and their own. They could have defended themselves more vigorously, or pushed their reads better. The only one who's really innocent is C_C. Did he underplay his usual skill D1? sure. He could have easily not been lynched. But a reasonable town would not have lynched C_C. Scum played brilliantly imo. Even our combined efforts we were unable to break VE's terrorist grip on the town, and C_C and I are no small fish at arguing. EDIT: I'm not saying anyone broke the rules. I'm just saying that a death without honor is a sad one indeed. | ||
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froggynoddy
United Kingdom452 Posts
 . I was not finger pointing as I think we all got outplayed (having noobs like me doesn't help:s), I just felt that Mr Z and Sinensis rlly screwed with my reads.re C_C: I was referring to the flag and to a lesser degree the diagrams... if you read the OP then its clear soft-claiming nationality is playing against town. | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25558 Posts
On April 04 2012 20:43 froggynoddy wrote: Ok fair enough, I retract that post. See you guys in a future game hopefully . I was not finger pointing as I think we all got outplayed (having noobs like me doesn't help:s), I just felt that Mr Z and Sinensis rlly screwed with my reads.re C_C: I was referring to the flag and to a lesser degree the diagrams... if you read the OP then its clear soft-claiming nationality is playing against town. The diagram... I can't believe people read into that at all. Or even the flag. Look, Up until the moment he flipped, I had 0 idea whether C_C was SU or US. I honestly think he would have posted the soviet flag even if he rolled US. Also, although the soft claim is weird (if it was indeed a soft claim), he claimed that he would have posted that flag anyways. Then he proceeded to be modestly unbad (better than several other D1 players). Is this C_C playing against his wincon? No, it's him making an error and playing sub-optimally. There was no anti-wincon motive from C_C at all. end of story. | ||
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VisceraEyes
United States21171 Posts
Keep defending his "play", needlessly. All you're doing is making it appear okay to the rest of town who DID care and WAS trying, which is non-productive and doesn't help anyone. | ||
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VisceraEyes
United States21171 Posts
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
Maybe CC just rolls too much scum :p (I didn't read much, but from what little I did see I was curious as to how scum were doing so well compared to town) Recently it seems teams are being carried more by individual efforts while mostly everyone else is as good as a bag of bricks. That's how it was in Storm for both teams, and that's how it was in the mini I hosted as well. For both sides of a team-based game it's a losing proposition to give up or stop trying. | ||
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VisceraEyes
United States21171 Posts
I mean, In a community like this where there are people with like, YEARS of experience and people with ZERO experience, there's bound to be an imbalance in skill somewhere...but the answer is NEVER "give up, let that guy find the scum". Ever. | ||
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EchelonTee
United States5260 Posts
On April 05 2012 02:32 wherebugsgo wrote: Recently it seems teams are being carried more by individual efforts while mostly everyone else is as good as a bag of bricks. That's how it was in Storm for both teams, and that's how it was in the mini I hosted as well. For both sides of a team-based game it's a losing proposition to give up or stop trying. On the contrary, I'd say this game scum team had a pretty good combined effort to win this game. Gonzaw did a lot of the heavy lifting, most definitely, but everyone played their part. Even cccalf's intense lurking drew people's attention away enough that myself and bluelightz didn't get the necessary scrutiny to push us. oh and big thanks to hosts for hosting!! I'm starting to think that minis are mafia favored. Does anyone think that gonzaw's decision to snipe BH and VE, or the Mafia Team Performance overall warrant nominations in the Mafia 2012 awards? I might be biased since I was on the scum team; was this a crafty game by scum, or just town self-imploding? | ||
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gonzaw
Uruguay4911 Posts
>_> Of course that will change whenever I get to play a Mini as town  | ||
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slOosh
3291 Posts
In ObsQT Probulous wrote: The difference between Sinensis and Gonzaw, is that Gonzaw has been labelled scum repeatedly and yet is stil hiding under the radar. Could anyone explain how this works and how to employ this strategy to scumhunt? | ||
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gonzaw
Uruguay4911 Posts
I was FoSed as soon as I made my 1st post, how is that hiding under the radar? lol | ||
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Probulous
Australia3894 Posts
On April 05 2012 05:19 slOosh wrote: Could anyone explain how this works and how to employ this strategy to scumhunt? Well I have the luck of having played with VE previously so I know he does this stuff, even as town. I don't know why Gonzaw hasn't been pushed more. He joins the thread half way through a shitstorm and doesn't comment on it? That was post prior to that. The point being that whilst Gonzaw had been FOS'd he clearly wasn't concerned with contributing. He was responding to stuff that related to him and nothing else. You however were lurking but pointing out little things that peope were missing. You were clearly paying attention whilst Gonzaw looked like he was trying to be active without contributing. Flying under the radar to me is not about not posting or not being FOS'd, it is about being in the thread with no-one paying attention to you. The fact that world war III was happening and he jumped in with this post (Klicky) which was just a big distraction especially that it was focused on Bluelightz who is really difficult to read day 1. Then the only thing he says about the whole BH/VE thing was BH, I quite like this new style of yours, at least it's better than the one you started with in this game. What do you think about Blue BH? And what do you think about me? It was like this stuff didn't matter. Every other townie was confused and trying to work out the whole BH/VE/C_C thing and he jumps in with a case on Bluelightz of all people. It just seemed really weird to arrive on the scene of a massacre and comment on the drapes. | ||
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slOosh
3291 Posts
Will definitely keep this in mind - I think I just got lazy and scrolled through when I saw a huge post with empty space everywhere >< | ||
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