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Ok let me explain that quote nice and simply because obviously I am not making myself clear.
here (Klicky) they say this
On March 20 2012 04:08 Toad_in_Pink_Dress wrote:
We both think Jackal looks about as scummy as he typically does
Which says what exactly? That Jackal typically looks scummy? How is that not a soft-defense? They are saying he looks scummy most of the time. His lurking is "typically" scummy so why should they vote for him.
If they thought he was scummy they would have said "Jackal looks scummy", not that he typically looks scummy. That word changes the whole meaning of the sentence.
Then four people vote for him and suddenly it becomes this (Klicky)
On March 20 2012 06:12 Toad_in_Pink_Dress wrote:Our reasons: He posts a little at the start but then He does very little to move discussion forward or even participate in it The closest thing to analysis he produced was this and he follows it with a vote after VE prods him. he pops back in to sheep the case on snarf with a vote, minutes after it was posted. This indicates to me that he is not looking for scum but rather a place to put his vote.
Which can be summed up as "Jackal has been useless". How is this not his "typically" scummy play? I'll tell you how, four other people have started a wagon that's how.
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On March 22 2012 10:24 xsksc wrote:Ok Probulous, I don't like your case. First of all the contradictory statement about the cops was a bit silly. Then, the meat of the rest of it is his defending of Jackal, but didn't you JUST say this? Show nested quote +On March 22 2012 07:58 Probulous wrote:
Defending scum does not make you scum. It makes you more suspicious especially if you don't vote for them. Your actions make you town in my eyes. Why does this not apply to TIPD? He defended Jackal, which is a large part of your case, then he voted for him. Is it not his actions that make him town?
Did you not read my response to VE. There is a big difference between "Jackal is town" and "Jackal is typically scummy". One makes your position very very very clear and hard to argue against, the other has a fence up your ass.
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On March 22 2012 10:32 VisceraEyes wrote:
But no one had Probulous! That's what I just said! No one was on the Jackal wagon at this point, everyone who mattered was on Snarfs!
Vote count says different unless I am reading it wrong. I will check manually
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Vote count:
sandroba (Klicky)
On March 20 2012 05:06 sandroba wrote:
Alright I read through everyone's filter quite some times and I think we should indeed lynch Jackal. If anyone opposes please tell me why.
He said previously he didn't have any opinion on snarfs when talking to VE, but he took 3 min to filter him this game, look at the filter I posted from the previous game, compare, think about it and come to the conclusion he is scum. I don't believe that is possible.
##Unvote
##Vote Jackal58
Then
Johnnywup (Klicky)
Dirkzor (Klicky)
xksc (Klicky)
Then comes TIPD's vote (Klicky)
Then comes the explanantion (Klicky)
So no, there were already votes on Jackal and you are severely misrepresenting the facts.
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Ok guys I have to go now. I'll jump back on in around 7hrs or so if someone wants to keep me company.
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On March 22 2012 15:51 slOosh wrote:Show nested quote +On March 22 2012 07:53 Probulous wrote:
The only one who was really pushing [VE] was me. Sure sandroba was a little skeptical of you but you were in no danger of being lynched. The upside was minimal compared to losing a scum buddy.
Nemesis' filter would argue with that. Trying to claim town cred when Nemesis was doing just the same.
Fair point but you can't argue that I wasnt pushing VE.
Show nested quote +On March 22 2012 08:39 Probulous wrote:On March 22 2012 08:29 Toad_in_Pink_Dress wrote:On March 22 2012 08:25 johnnywup wrote:On March 22 2012 08:19 Probulous wrote:
Does everyone else understand what VE is saying? not really, this is way over my head right now @_@ i'll vote for whoever sand votes for, really.. also TIPD what the fuck have you done all game anyways? post randomly about who you think is scum and whos inno, and then vote occasionally? Maybe i would answer if you were not such a cunt + Show Spoiler +swearing is bad children, don't do it Really? Come on son there is no need for that. I agree with Johnny that you have been useless this game. Laya, I don't expect anything from Bluelightz but you are a decent scum-hunter. Shape up. No posts in between. Just jumps from the first post to the second. The only new information from TIPD is Show nested quote +On March 22 2012 09:40 Toad_in_Pink_Dress wrote:
I'm dead in Aperture Mafia so I can put more time to this now. He is willing to see TIPD shape up, sees the post where TIPD gives reason for inactivity/lurking and then decides that TIPD should be the next lynch. I think it is a distraction to get us away from talking about me and him as he does not like the direction it is heading - and it looks like he just went through his filter and made everything look bad. I mean take this: Show nested quote +On March 22 2012 09:52 Probulous wrote:Here we have a nice little attempt at outing the Cop (assuming we have one) ( Klicky). Follow the cop only works if we have a medic, with two roleblocks claimed it is possible that instead of a medic we have a town roleblocker. Then comes a blatant bandwagon vote for slOosh ( Klicky) and a useless put down of both VE and myself ( Klicky). So what, a blatant bandwagon on someone who you are sure is scum is a scum tell? Nuh-uh. Town don't think like that.
You are really stretching here. A bandwagon of any sort is scummy because you don't provide any reasoning for your vote. As for TIPD, I spent all morning defending myself from accusations I wasnt scum hunting. When I got the chance I took a look at those on the Jackal wagon and he jumped out at me.
Do you have any issue with case itself? No only with my apparent change of mind. Well yes my mind did change because I actually read his filter carefully. What is your problem here?
From phone
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I got to sleep and this shit happens again. VE nice fo you to not post your case when Im online, even when I asked for it.
Reading and responding now
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On March 23 2012 01:44 VisceraEyes wrote:As far as I can see, Probulous' reasoning for suspecting me is the following: - "bad" case on johnnywup
- unvote of johnnywup
- inconsistent actions
- "loquacious"
The thing about his read though is that it changed over the course of our interactions. Why? My reasoning was never sufficient for him. I never refuted is point about not wanting to kill johnny. My actions, strictly speaking, should still be inconsistent, and he should still be suspicious of me. But he proceeds to unvote after I say that I talk a lot. Before the Jackal flip.
Actually I unvoted you because you admitted your read was bad. You had unvoted before I even got onto the thread so there was no way you were actually intending on getting him lynched. I knew this and the fact you didn't want to admit it made no sense to me. However it doesn't make a case, because the fact was you were not intending for him to get lynched. I mean I argued with you all day and no-one else voted for you. The case just wasn't strong enough so I looked elsewhere.
Yet when pressured about the reasoning for pushing me yesterday as scum, this was Probulous' response. Show nested quote +On March 22 2012 07:18 Probulous wrote:On March 22 2012 02:05 sandroba wrote:
SlOosh is behaving like townie right now and probulous doesn't seem to care too much about this game. I heard from someone that he is normally very good and very active. Day1 he spent the whole day bickering about your unvote on johnny and going around in circles. Also no one (besides you) really tried to keep votes away from jackal and probulous was mia at that time. His argument about slOosh trying to distance himself from jackal with that post right before the lynch does not make sense, because that post actually accomplishes the opposite. You seem to be forgetting I am on the other side of the world. I am here and posting but everyone else is in the middle of the night. So when I log on in the morning there are pages of stuff to read just before the deadline. Normally the deadlines are later so people are on later and I can push and drive discussion. You call it bickering, I call it putting VE in his place. He could well be scum, his vote to seal the Jackal lynch is what "confirms" him. He knew his case was shit yet he was actively pushing for the lynch. I even asked him if he intended to lynch Johnny and he made it clear that he did. Then he says he knew he case was weak. Are you telling me that discussion was useless?
The thing that made him town in my mind was his Jackal vote. He could have pulled a Sloosh and said he wasn't sure, hell he thought he was town for most of the first day, but he hammered Jackal and for that he gets a town read. I explained why I was MIA. That post of Sloosh puts us in a WIFOM situation. Did he do it because he wanted town to reason he wouldn't do it as scum? I think VE's point about how it contradicts his earlier positioning on you is a great point that I missed. I also think it highly unreasonable that anyone would doubt a mason claim from you on day 1. It is way way way too risky a scum move and to assume otherwise is a huge logical fail. I just don't see Sloosh actually believing you could be scum. Then why the unvote before the flip? What about my defense was the most compelling Probulous? Because the whole paragraph before you explain how I was "confirmed" for you, you spent describing how I'm still suspicious according to your reasoning. If you thought I was scum before Jackal flipped, why did you unvote when you did? Why weren't you voting for me to be lynched with Nemesis? + Show Spoiler +I think you were setting yourself up to do whatever you wanted today, according to town sentiment. I think you knew Jackal would flip scum, but just in case sandroba pushed for my lynch today (he's said he's suspicious of me several times this game,) you could jump on-board with no repercussions.
##Vote: Probulous
I've explained this already. What is the point of me placing my vote on someone who clearly no-one else thinks is scum in a majority lynch situation? Remember this was half through Day 1 there was plenty of time for other candidates to make themselves known. My read on you was more gut feel than anything, the only evidence I had against you was you faked a read and didnt want to admit it. It put you in my bad books but that isn't a case. Especially since you were not voting for him.
Now if you had jumped off the Jackal wagon I would most certainly have kept my suspicions on you but when you compare
Fake a read and wouldn't admit it
to
Helped nail a scum to the wall
Especially when your suspicions were based on early Day 1 play, it makes sense to change your mind.
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On March 22 2012 23:23 slOosh wrote:
Based on your reads that both me and TIPD are scum, you are willing to believe all of the following:
1) As a scum team we decided that one of us should bandwagon Jackal and the other one should stay off and draw attention onto themselves
2) As a scum team, now that I am suspicious in D2 we decide that we should do the softest bus ever
3) As a scum team, I was willing to point out that TIPD was lurking on D1 and draw attention to him unnecessarily
1) Yes, that would make sense especially with the vote so close. A no-lynch was a real possibility and YOU tried to push that.
2)Yes, it makes perfect sense for scum to soft-bus each other. That way they can provide some weak reason for being on the bus if they can't stop it. Plus it allows them to distance themselves.
3) See point 2. You cannot say you were pushing TIPD as a case. You mentioned he had disappeared. That was it. More importantly you didn't create a case or vote for him. This was a soft bus in the hope that you would be the one to notice his absence before someone who would push the case.
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On March 23 2012 06:24 VisceraEyes wrote:
Not trying to be evasive or anything Probulous - just as you expect leeway from everyone else regarding your active times, I expect leeway from you in regard to forgiving times that I post things.
That being said, everything I said in my case I've already said to you. You just skipped over it or didn't understand it. *shrug*
It's just really annoying that I have to deal with this 1 hour before the lynch. I know that isn't your fault but suddenly your case makes sense to everyone when yesterday it didn't but yesterday you didn't feel like explaining to others.
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On March 23 2012 06:23 johnnywup wrote:
but your suspicions of early day 1 made it well into day 2 and thats a bit silly
No, Day 2 I was pushing slOosh.
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On March 23 2012 02:21 Snarfs wrote:
Yea... okay. I'm kinda seeing it now.
Another thing that I wish Probulous had time to respond to would be his reasoning for why johnnywup gets the confused noob treatment but Tobon is clearly scum day 1. Stupid timezones.
Then there is the gap between his last statement on day 1 and his case on slOosh, which doesn't make sense with the called into office thing because the last statement on day 1 would have been around 4:30pm his time. I don't like voting people just for reasons such as that because everybody gets busy and that's not a good reason to lynch, but adding it with everything that everyone else is mentioning it seems more suspicious.
I hope this isn't wrong.
##Unvote
##Vote Probulous
I play this game when I am at work, I finish at 5pm. The next time I get on is when I get back into work THE NEXT DAY. This is not a reason to vote for me.
Johnny responded completely differently to Tobon. Johnny replied quickly and openly. He admitted his mistakes and changed his read. This is a townie response.
Tobon told me to fuck off and that he wasn't going to explain himself. This is not a townie response.
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On March 23 2012 06:33 VisceraEyes wrote:
So you're saying that if I'm scum and I make a bad case, all I have to do to absolve myself of suspicion is to admit that my case is bad? That's what you're saying?
You expect me to believe that you thought I was scum with malicious intent and an agenda, and you just took for granted that I'm town because I admitted that my case 20 minutes into the game wasn't strong? That's what you're selling to me?
If no-one else is even looking at you, how I am going to convince them?
I spent ages trying to make it clear how contradictory you were being and no-one cared. Tell me this would I have been less suspicious if I just tunnelled you are day long and never looked elsewhere?
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No.
I want to find scum and if the only thing I have against you is a weak case which no-one else believes then maybe I am wrong. Either way there are other scum out there worth looking for. Especially Day 1 when it really unlikely that you have a perfect read. I second guessed myself because everyone else didn't believe me.
There was no way you were getting lynched. It just wasn't happening and I couldn't strengthen my case because you were acting really townie. You chose voluntarily to unvote which meant you never intended on following through. My case didn't add up and so I unvoted once you had made it clear that you knew your case was bad.
The evidence was there in thread if you slipped later in the game. Instead you go and hammer a scum and I have to admit to myself I was wrong.
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On March 23 2012 06:37 johnnywup wrote:Tobon is town to me because of the near modkill situation...however bad of a sitation that was, to me it proved snarfs and tobon's innocence see Show nested quote +On March 20 2012 03:11 Tobon wrote:On March 20 2012 03:04 Snarfs wrote:
Sigh, I'm sorry. I'm tired and am rushing things because deadline is in 4 hours. Another reason I'm suspicious of both johnny and Tobon, one which I alluded to earlier when I said that johnny's claim was off, is because they both claimed "Vanilla Town". I'm a "Vanilla Towny". See that? With a 'y' at the end? Why would they have a different title if they're actually townies? It looks like they were trying to match it up with the posts at the beginning of the thread, when that's not what the title that was sent out says. That's interesting. He's right, the title in my role PM does say "Vanilla Towny" rather than "Town". Is that exact role name public anywhere else? If not, then I may have to reconsider Snarfs....
Which happened whilst I was sleeping. People, can't you understand I was not here for the deadline? I wasn't able to catch up and change my vote because I got pulled into a stupid work meeting. My vote for Tobon happened before he made that mistake.
Honestly everything here seems to come down me just not being online when shit happens.
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On March 23 2012 06:45 johnnywup wrote:Show nested quote +On March 23 2012 06:43 Probulous wrote:You chose voluntarily to unvote which meant you never intended on following through. My case didn't add up and so I unvoted once you had made it clear that you knew your case was bad didn't he say that he planned on lynching me but the support wasn't there? :x
He changed his mind. That much is clear. Otherwise he would have left his vote on you. I mean his logic that he is using to get me lynched is the same for him. He said he couldn't get you lynched so unvoted, but when I do that I am scum?
VE looked scummy to me but my case wasn't going anywhere. Then he straight up said his case was weak.
On March 19 2012 14:00 VisceraEyes wrote:
Here's the truth Probulous. My case is't strong, and I've known it wasn't strong. When it became clear that the only contention I have with his play can be attributed to several others, I decided it was time to start refining my search. And that started with an unvote. Do I still think johnnywup is scum? Yes. If more people start voting for him, will I put my vote back on him? Yes. If a scummier candidate presents himself, will I vote for him? Yes. All of these problems you have about me with my vote and my unvote you had while you didn't have a vote placed yourself Probulous, and all of the questions I just asked myself should have already been asked if you were really trying to "reconcile" my actions.
Yes, I talk a lot. What? You wanna fight about it?
To me this is fair and reasonable. So I unvote and do the same, look for other possible candidates.
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On March 23 2012 06:53 VisceraEyes wrote:
Probulous - but that's just what you did voting Tobon sir - you voted for someone who clearly wasn't going to get lynched instead of consolidating with town. On a scum lynch, sir.
Get your timings straight. All that shit happened in the middle of the night my time. Then I expect to get online before the lynch to check what has happened, and my stupid boss calls me into an objectives meeting. I wasn't able to change my vote. There was no consolidation on Jackal when I voted and when I left the the day before.
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On March 23 2012 06:57 slOosh wrote:
I'm going to be lynched because 2 people voted and went to sleep, and another just switched because of indecision and guilt that the other suspect is in a different timezone. Pfft.
No, you are getting lynched because you are mafia. Townies fight to the end. There are still people around but you have given up. Don't give me timezone crap
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Can I get the Obs Qt when this is done? I need somewhere to rage.
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EPT
