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That meme is some good stuff. I love you Jackal.
So, let's get this ball rolling, then.
I'm not sure I want to comment on Lurkers or anything yet. Looking at the player list, I think everyone will have a decently good job of staying active enough to contribute to a pro-town atmosphere. No one really stands out to me as a lurking player, so enough of that.
Also, this is going to be pretty much a direct rip from my first post in Storm. It's something that I think should set the mood for town discussion.
I hate liars, unless there is a clear and logical reason to do so (blue prolonging his anonymity, ect.), anyone lying should (and will) be 100% held accountable for the actions they decided to run with. Does anyone in anyway disagree with this, and if so, why?
I will hold myself to the same standard, and anyone who is found blatantly lying, crossing stories, anything of that sort is going to be pushed by me, and i'd like to assume that the majority of the town players can agree with me on that.
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What about lying in PM's? In what situation would you use it? Can you logically and clearly explain you're reasoning to the rest of the town when the lie is brought out to the forums?
If yes - yes, I would be ok with that.
If no - no, don't lie.
Simple.
Again, calculated lies are something that could potentially have high risk/low reward. Remember that as well.
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I could roll with that, Jackal.
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Well, at least everyone can agree on the accountability of people trying to lie.
Sup Sheth. Another game we play.
Why won't you reveal who you Mason up with?
From a town perspective, I can't see any real harm of letting people know who you are going to mason up with. I think scum and town can both benefit equally from using PM's, but scum benefit exponentially better if they can float PM land by masoning weaker players and trying to manipulate them.
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On March 11 2012 17:06 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
Rock solid case Caller, I'm glad you're bringing some cool logic into this game.
PM should be used as a tool to pressure and harass your scumreads imo not to setup town circles unless you have an investigative role or some means of entrapping scum/confirming people with it, it's better to bring the pressure directly to scum where they can't just ignore it like they can in the thread. if someone is going around and using their PMs just to buddy up with people and try to gain trust, I would think of that as being highly suspicious right away. the goal of a townie is not to prove they are a townie.
at the end of the day a policy of "lynch anyone who doesn't claim pm targets" would be ridiculous so as usual it's up to an individuals discretion. i don't think scum have a huge incentive to hide who they are PMing especially considering it would only bring more scrutiny on them
100% disagree with you. The goal of a town player is to prove their innocence just as much as it is to find scum. If a townie can effectively prove that they are innocent, it does a few things.
1. It doesn't give Town room to speculate whether or not that player is innocent or sinister.
2. It can add legitimacy to their reads, however, it doesn't mean that everything they say is law.
3. It doesn't give the opportunity for mafia to throw speculation against that player.
I think a case can be made both ways for revealing who you PM. I'd be more concerned if I saw BM masoning with gumshoe then DocH.
I also don't really buy into the fact that if someone is blatantly lying, they won't be punished for it. You hold people accountable for the actions in the thread. Period.
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What do you think it means?
Accountable means subject to the obligation to report, explain, or justify something; responsible; answerable.
If a player lies, and can't do the above, we kill him.
If he can justify it, and it's a logical and clearly visible motive, we don't.
Why do you think a player who lies shouldn't be lynched? Is it you're opinion that lying isn't Anti-Town?
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On March 12 2012 01:29 layabout wrote:+ Show Spoiler [ tedious LaL crap] +On March 12 2012 01:20 Jitsu wrote:
What do you think it means?
Accountable means subject to the obligation to report, explain, or justify something; responsible; answerable.
If a player lies, and can't do the above, we kill him.
If he can justify it, and it's a logical and clearly visible motive, we don't.
Why do you think a player who lies shouldn't be lynched? Is it you're opinion that lying isn't Anti-Town? Town lie all the time. Town make illogical moves all the time. Town play anti-town all the time. But if we think they are town we do not lynch them.
So, a player that is, according to you:
1. lying
2. playing illogically
3. playing anti-town
...has the potential to not be lynched because we might think they are town?
No. That person will be getting my vote, and I will be doing what I can to push for their lynch, especially if those three things come up. You can do whatever you want with your vote, I guess.
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On March 12 2012 02:01 layabout wrote:Show nested quote +On March 12 2012 01:37 Jitsu wrote:On March 12 2012 01:29 layabout wrote:+ Show Spoiler [ tedious LaL crap] +On March 12 2012 01:20 Jitsu wrote:
What do you think it means?
Accountable means subject to the obligation to report, explain, or justify something; responsible; answerable.
If a player lies, and can't do the above, we kill him.
If he can justify it, and it's a logical and clearly visible motive, we don't.
Why do you think a player who lies shouldn't be lynched? Is it you're opinion that lying isn't Anti-Town? Town lie all the time. Town make illogical moves all the time. Town play anti-town all the time. But if we think they are town we do not lynch them. So, a player that is, according to you: 1. lying 2. playing illogically 3. playing anti-town ...has the potential to not be lynched because we might think they are town? No. That person will be getting my vote, and I will be doing what I can to push for their lynch, especially if those three things come up. You can do whatever you want with your vote, I guess. The steps to overcoming the belief that town players will do what is best for town1. Click on this link2. Scroll down 3. When you reach the playerlist click on Toadesstern and rgtheschworz 4. Read through both fliters, paying particular attention to the numerous lies both of them make 5. Discover that townies lie, play anti-town and play illlogically 6. Apologise to layabout Jitsu, being able to guess whether or not a player is town or scum is quite difficult even if players are all acting sensibly. You have to learn to deal with the additional complexity introduced by players playing poorly, illogically or even against their own win condition.
I don't have to click that link, because those were the two people I was thinking about from Arkham as well. Part of me thinks that they were allowed to run rampant around because they weren't held accountable for the shit they did.
If I remember correctly, RGTS made it alive to the end, or close to it. Instead of him, would you think town would have benefit from someone who didn't spout lies every other post? I certainly do.
So again, just because townies lie, don't think logically, and play anti-town, yes, I, and I hope you, will hold them accountable for that.
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If I know or strongly believe someone is town, then I will put them on my ignore list, if they are cluttering up the thread with useless things.
I can also tell you I won't "strongly believe" someone is town if they are playing anti-town.
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Hmmm, looking at it again, I think prphlz's reason to vote for Jackal is a much larger amount of bullshit then Caller's. For instance, you point out that he is using things such as
Instead he is pushing it in a very meek way with his "forgive me" and "sir".
That yells sarcasm to me a lot more then it screams scum.
Wiggles brings up a good point. prphlz is a player that wouldn't just happen to miss the name of someone that posted. It's almost like prphlz was waiting for Curu to post something, realized he fucked up, then tried to cover it.
It's not surprising that prphlz mistakes Curu for Caller, and then 10 minutes later, Curu ACTUALLY comes out with a small little case against Jackal as well.
Shit reeks.
##vote prphlz
Also,
LayAbout, are you still looking at jaybrundage?
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Instead of calling it sleeping, why not look at the fact that prphlz came in, assumed caller was curu, agreed with caller even stating it was curu...
And then, low and behold, Curu actually does come in and post case against Jackal.
I'm not a fan of odds and probability, but seriously. I actually can't believe people are buying a bullshit excuse that prphlz just guessed Curu made the post our of everyone else here, and then Curu suddenly makes a post on Jackal.
I have a midterm. I'll bed back later.
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On March 12 2012 15:01 Bill Murray wrote:
jitsu, what are your thoughts on layabout's alignment this game?
I'm going to tie this into the response to ET's case against me, because I think it's important to note.
I read you're case, and broke it up into two sections. The first section is a case against me that I am spewing bullshit about Lynch All Liar's policy. Whether it's useful or not to town isn't the issue. I believe it is, and when enforced, can be powerful too. Whether you agree or disagree doesn't matter. My intention was to come in, set the tone, show that no bullshit was going to be taken, and then continue on.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=316574¤tpage=9#169
At this point, I was essentially finished talking about Lynch All Liars. I stressed my point many times, and felt that it was enough and didn't need to be reopened. You say that I continued to talk about the LaL policy up.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=316574¤tpage=9#175
Layabout comes in and questions my reasoning on the matter, which turns into a large (albeit un-needed) blowout about two players opinions on how the game should be played. The snowball grows and we continue to bicker. Mr.Wiggles comes in, asks me a final question, and I think that's the end of the topic of LaL.
Also, ET, you're first quote...:
What about lying in PM's? In what situation would you use it? Can you logically and clearly explain you're reasoning to the rest of the town when the lie is brought out to the forums?
If yes - yes, I would be ok with that.
If no - no, don't lie.
Simple.
Again, calculated lies are something that could potentially have high risk/low reward. Remember that as well
...is in response to gumshoe. Go back and look at it. I didn't feel the need to add a quote because his post was one or two above mine, and was "easily" associated with it. It's not a continuation, it's a response. Don't make it out like it is.
Secondly, you say that my case on prphlz is flimsy.
How many games have you played? Have you ever mis-read the name of a player? It's generally the first thing I look at when someone posts. I don't "get all giddy and assume" that it's someone. You think prphlz would just go right by a nametag at the top of a post, and assume it's someone? Please. You and I both know he is better then that.
For example:
If I say, "Hey ET, nice case on Qatol."
And then you post your case on Qatol.
zzz...
How does that not give outside communication? Curu already say they weren't PMing, so that kills that reason.
As for LayAbout, I have no idea. I think he was more interested in trying to prove me wrong on the Accountability discussion then actually contributing to town. I've only played one other game with him, but that's something we can't discuss at this point.
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I didn't call you out because it was pretty dumb vote in the first place, similar to Caller's gripe against me and gumshoe earlier.
I just ignored him, just like I ignored that.
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On March 13 2012 03:44 Kurumi wrote:
I won't vote for Caller/Jackal58. This most likely leaves me with Jitsu. He fishes for Mason partners and advocates Town lying, while his first posts were about how good the town atmosphere is going to be. If so, he isn't doing anything to make that happen. This is pretty bad. Although, I am a bit reluctant to vote for him, just a gut feeling.
As for people who made cases today, You get something like +1 point for being Town or whatever, I just find it more likely for scum to join on bandwagons than creating cases themselves - I mean, why would they put themselves in a hard situation?
We have a lot people who haven't voted(me included). D1 might end in a no-lynch. I'll rethink some things and maybe come up with someone.
Even if some extreme lurking happens, I don't want to lynch a lurker, Mafia rarely lurks and if they do, it's because they suck.
Thanks jaybrundage. Your response looks really good in my eyes, but I disagree with Jackal as scum.
I thought of the Mason thing. I reasoned that in a game with PM's, I couldn't foresee the need to have Mason's in the game, so I called bullshit.
I'm done bringing the issue of lying up, again. If that is all you gleaned from my first ten posts of the game, then nothing I say now will change it.
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I thought you were referring to town Masons as a role, not the PM mechanic. I thought that since there was a PM mechanic, there would be no reason to have Mason roles.
How would I fish for it if I voted for prphlz after Curu denied having PM contact?
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On March 13 2012 05:08 EchelonTee wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2012 00:38 Jitsu wrote:On March 12 2012 15:01 Bill Murray wrote:
jitsu, what are your thoughts on layabout's alignment this game? At this point, I was essentially finished talking about Lynch All Liars. I stressed my point many times, and felt that it was enough and didn't need to be reopened. You say that I continued to talk about the LaL policy up. Also, ET, you're first quote...: <quote> ...is in response to gumshoe. Go back and look at it. I didn't feel the need to add a quote because his post was one or two above mine, and was "easily" associated with it. It's not a continuation, it's a response. Don't make it out like it is. I say that you continued to talk about the LaL policy because... you did. you spent almost 2/3 of the day cycle on the topic when it really should only be talked about briefly, if at all. The fact that that quote is towards gumshoe, and not layabout, does not change the fact that your only contributions to the thread was this policy discussion that doesn't even really relate to any people in the thread. you said somewhere that first goal of town is to look innocent: I feel that you're taking that knowledge in mind as a mafioso and trying to look pro-town, when you're really not. Show nested quote +On March 13 2012 00:38 Jitsu wrote:
Secondly, you say that my case on prphlz is flimsy.
How many games have you played? Have you ever mis-read the name of a player? It's generally the first thing I look at when someone posts. I don't "get all giddy and assume" that it's someone. You think prphlz would just go right by a nametag at the top of a post, and assume it's someone? Please. You and I both know he is better then that.
How does that not give outside communication? Curu already say they weren't PMing, so that kills that reason.
I don't think I have EVER seen a legit case built off of an fn posting mistake. prplhz just has a severe case of sheeping; he sees the red text, he wants to follow teh leader. you're also heavily implicating a prplhz-Curu scumbuddy connection, without providing any basis for it except for "no one could possibly misread a name". if you wanted to build a real case you would have done more work on prplhz' other posts, but of course, you don't want to do that. Show nested quote +On March 13 2012 01:21 Curu wrote:
Get off Jitsu. There is no reason for Mafia to spew something stupid like that if him and Jackal are opposite alignments.
1. Jackal Town Jitsu Mafia = why protect Jackal with something dumb right now, should just go with it and let us case formers take the fall after flip
2. Jackal Town Jitsu Town = can explain his actions
3. Jackal Mafia Jitsu Town = can explain his actions
4. Jackal Mafia Jitsu Mafia = can explain his actions
In scenario 1 Jitsu could easily be setting himself up for a good D2 mislynch: "see guys I knew jackal wasn't mafia. let's kill prplhz, he was a big sheep on that case". He didn't exactly proclaim Jackal's, nor confront the more solid cases against him, so it's not like he's "protecting" jackal that much at all. To me it looks like he's putting in the seed of a case that he knows won't germinate until later. Scenario 4 I could see happening, but I see Jitsu as way more likely to flip Mafia. The train of people voting for Jackal screams bandwagon. I'm not changing my vote.
First of all, there is a difference between responding to people in the thread when they ask me something, and continuing to talk about something that doesn't help the town. See what you are doing right now? You're responding. It's a main component to conversation, or discussion. Coming up with a bullshit case that I kept going on about "policy" when I tried to reiterate a large number of times that instead of enforcing a policy, we should hold people accountable, is putting words in my mouth. If anything, you're bringing this shit up more, after "2/3 of the Day Cycle" is actually up, since the last time I spoke of it was five hours into the game. Stop trying to dramatize shit and make it look much worse then it actually is.
Secondly, I could care less if you have never seen a posting mistake lead to a lynch. That's part of the reason there's no editing in forum mafia. Right? But then again, you come to the attempt of trying to be aggressive, by saying I don't want to do any work. Is it better then coming out and making a case that is 100% incorrect? Yes. I think my point is an extremely valid one, more so then a simple "He was answering other peoples concerns about his idea, so he must be scum."
JubJubJubJub.
Everyone is saying that Jackal's case was based on meta. He's playing very similar to how I saw him play in Storm. He flipped town. That was one reason I didn't vote for him.
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Jitsu, you're doing a good job of attacking the attacker instead of defending your actual reason for voting. I'm surprised that after allt hat has happened int his thread your best reason to vote for someone is that they mistook two names that look similar
I have defended it. There's nothing more I can really say to it. It essentially comes down to if I think prplhz actually misread something, or not. I don't think he did. I think it was a slip up in timing. Sorry if you don't feel similar. I don't think I would sheep my vote onto Jackal, because I didn't think he was scum. I legitimately think that the timing error was a real fuck-up. What more do you want me to say?
On March 13 2012 06:08 prplhz wrote:
Like, Rattata is a pokémon. A rat pokémon. A rat is a traitor.
"Me and my Rattata needs friends" sounds a lot like you're the traitor trying to hint to scum that you're the traitor.
You see what I'm saying? I'm not willing to consider that you're just saying this because you're insane and polish.
That's interesting. I actually hadn't thought of that, and was wondering the same thing.
On March 13 2012 06:18 Pandain wrote:
im detective
dafuq.
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On March 13 2012 06:34 Kurumi wrote:
Since when a rat is symbol of traitors , shouldnt it be something like snake? Like, Seviper or Arbok ? Wrong. I am the best Rattata trainer around.
As far back as I remember it, it is.
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On March 13 2012 06:39 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2012 06:37 Jitsu wrote:On March 13 2012 06:34 Kurumi wrote:
Since when a rat is symbol of traitors , shouldnt it be something like snake? Like, Seviper or Arbok ? Wrong. I am the best Rattata trainer around. As far back as I remember it, it is. Rat is more cunning than treachery. In Egypt rats meant wisdom.
Obviously you have never been involved with the Corrections system.
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On March 13 2012 06:54 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
What do you want me to say before you respond? You didn't explain your claim or your vote. If you're just trolling then yes you deserve to be ignored completely.
Lynch Jitsu. The WIFOM concerning Jackal will sort itself out at night right? So why are we lynching a claimed blue right now? It's not something mafia can even fake it would go down in history as the worst fakeclaim ever
You criticize me for making a bad vote on someone because I think I catch a scumslip, and you push others to lynch me based on...what? The fact that I think I caught a scumslip and you don't?
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On March 13 2012 08:18 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
It's inconclusive. I have no reason to believe you can't be teammates just because you take opposing viewpoints particularly when the bandwagon is so heavily swung in one direction there's no real danger there. Jitsu singled out prplhz and voted for him here but never voted in the actual voting thread which makes me think it's bullshit. He hasn't pushed it since then despite claiming that he still believes in it.
I try to just look at people as individuals, I tend to second guess myself a lot when I start to think of teams and until somebody actually flips it's difficult for me. It caused a lot of problems for me in Arkham City particularly.
You're both acting scummy in my eyes so what am I supposed to think?
Check again, sweetheart.
I still think he is scum because I perceive a scumslip. Not much of a case, but it's better then "let's vote Jackl after he claims blue in the thread." again, his meta looks pretty close to what I saw in Storm, and I think DrH sees it too. He's not getting my vote.
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Not sure, voted on Page 2. Easily remedied.
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Lol Gumshoe. So you think i'm townie, but you would be ok with my lynch?
dafuq?
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Also, you would vote for my lynch, yet you had Bill Murray targeted as mafia yesterday, made a case, and then voted for him. No?
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On March 14 2012 07:36 prplhz wrote:@Jackal58 I hope drunk Jackal58 can still think and then I hope that you shoot.
Show nested quote +On March 14 2012 07:20 VisceraEyes wrote:Jitsu is based on the discussions we've had in general - he's earnestly scumhunting and to be honest, your name hasn't come up...you might have convinced him  Palmar is Palmar. I've felt the sting of his manipulation before. It was a gut thing mostly, until he arrived in the thread. And yes, the way he pushed DocH for information cemented my read on him. While Storm certainly helped, I've been told several times that I need to work on just having confidence in my reads - so that's what I'm doing this game. It doesn't help that Palmar's read of Caller and mine are at odds. -.- I don't like how you're convinced that Palmar is town this fast when it took you so long in Resistance 2. If you're talking to Jitsu then ask him why he never pushed Curu even though his case on me was that I was scum buddy with Curu. He doesn't want to answer me when I bring it up in the thread for some reason. I think that Palmar has been too silent so far. If he had been around for the rest of the game I would be less unsettled but right now, Palmar is in a pretty unique position because there are PMs in this game and 2 people already openly confirmed to be in PM contact with him and I suspect that this number may be higher. If he is town and he doesn't talk then how can he expect to live until tomorrow? Scum are going to be pretty scared of him but he's not doing anything to defend himself from them at all. Unless he's in contact with medic/jailer and he is pretty sure they're town, I think it's weird that he's being so silent. From what you said it doesn't sound like he is very busy in PM land.
No, I can answer it here.
My case on you was my perception of a scum slip. Stop saying my case is that Curu and you are scum buddies. I would say that that is more a by-product of you scum slipping in thread.
I don't care if you think it's legit or not, or whether the odds are with you or the aren't. It's also widely known by now that I am not the best at analyses (something that I can attest that I am trying to correct, and working hard trying to fix) but when I do see something that looks scummy, i'm going to call it scum. Period.
I'm tired of reiterating the same thing over, and over, and over again. I felt that what I perceived was enough to put my vote on you - at least, stronger then the case against Jackal, who claimed a blue role in the thread. That's all I had, and I felt it was STILL a stronger point the the case brought up on Jackal, which can more attest to the strength of your shit over mine.
I am waiting to see other people's thoughts on you. I feel that if I go back and examine your filter, i'll only be looking for things that are scummy, and not looking at things subjectively. Would I vote for you still? Yes. Do I think Curu is scum? As a by-product of a your apparent fuck-up, I do. I know blues aren't all-powerful. But voting for a blue, in the thread, after he claims? Storm Mafia taught me that lesson. Fool me once, shame on me. Fool me twice isn't going to be so hard.
Looking back, after I was staying on par with the posts of the thread, I came across a defense, similar to this, with Curu. After you posted the defense, you seem to have just vanished, and came back into the thread only after the pressure on you seemed to have cool. This shit isn't Grand Theft Auto. The Police don't stop coming after you after you get three blocks away and to your safe house.
You can lurk, but you can't hide.
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On March 14 2012 08:24 prplhz wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2012 07:48 Jitsu wrote:On March 14 2012 07:36 prplhz wrote:@Jackal58 I hope drunk Jackal58 can still think and then I hope that you shoot.
On March 14 2012 07:20 VisceraEyes wrote:Jitsu is based on the discussions we've had in general - he's earnestly scumhunting and to be honest, your name hasn't come up...you might have convinced him Palmar is Palmar. I've felt the sting of his manipulation before. It was a gut thing mostly, until he arrived in the thread. And yes, the way he pushed DocH for information cemented my read on him. While Storm certainly helped, I've been told several times that I need to work on just having confidence in my reads - so that's what I'm doing this game. It doesn't help that Palmar's read of Caller and mine are at odds. -.- I don't like how you're convinced that Palmar is town this fast when it took you so long in Resistance 2. If you're talking to Jitsu then ask him why he never pushed Curu even though his case on me was that I was scum buddy with Curu. He doesn't want to answer me when I bring it up in the thread for some reason. I think that Palmar has been too silent so far. If he had been around for the rest of the game I would be less unsettled but right now, Palmar is in a pretty unique position because there are PMs in this game and 2 people already openly confirmed to be in PM contact with him and I suspect that this number may be higher. If he is town and he doesn't talk then how can he expect to live until tomorrow? Scum are going to be pretty scared of him but he's not doing anything to defend himself from them at all. Unless he's in contact with medic/jailer and he is pretty sure they're town, I think it's weird that he's being so silent. From what you said it doesn't sound like he is very busy in PM land. No, I can answer it here. My case on you was my perception of a scum slip. Stop saying my case is that Curu and you are scum buddies 1. I would say that that is more a by-product of you scum slipping in thread. I don't care if you think it's legit or not, or whether the odds are with you or the aren't. It's also widely known by now that I am not the best at analyses 2 (something that I can attest that I am trying to correct, and working hard trying to fix) but when I do see something that looks scummy, i'm going to call it scum. Period. I'm tired of reiterating the same thing over, and over, and over again. I felt that what I perceived 2 was enough to put my vote on you - at least, stronger then the case against Jackal, who claimed a blue role in the thread. That's all I had, and I felt it was STILL a stronger point the the case brought up on Jackal, which can more attest to the strength of your shit over mine. I am waiting to see other people's thoughts on you 2. I feel that if I go back and examine your filter, i'll only be looking for things that are scummy, and not looking at things subjectively 3. Would I vote for you still? Yes. Do I think Curu is scum? As a by-product of a your apparent fuck-up, I do. I know blues aren't all-powerful. But voting for a blue, in the thread, after he claims 4? Storm Mafia taught me that lesson. Fool me once, shame on me. Fool me twice isn't going to be so hard. Looking back, after I was staying on par with the posts of the thread, I came across a defense, similar to this, with Curu. After you posted the defense, you seem to have just vanished 5, and came back into the thread only after the pressure on you seemed to have cool. This shit isn't Grand Theft Auto. The Police don't stop coming after you after you get three blocks away and to your safe house. You can lurk, but you can't hide. 5 1: But it is. Your case was that I misread Caller as Curu and for some reason you don't think I would just misread stuff so you think I was expecting Curu to post. You say that this means that we were in private contact with each other. Since Curu said that he wasn't PMing with anybody then we must be communicating in some other way, and you say that this is a QuickTopic, consequently Curu and I are scum buddies and that makes me scum. Your entire case rests on how you believe that Curu and I are scum buddies, yet you don't push Curu AT ALL. If your case merely was that I misread something then you're really a JubJub. + Show Spoiler +I don't get why you're disregarding how Curu and I could be in PM contact. How do you know that he's telling the truth? If you think he's telling the truth because he's town then we can't be scum buddies. : Reeks of insecurity. 3: Word you're looking for is "objectively". 4: Didn't you read Curu's analysis of the claim? I don't recall you objecting to any of it other than blindly saying that you wont lynch claimer because in some other game the claimer turned out to be town or something. 5: Lurk but not hide? I have a lot more posts than you. Whatever. This post is so bad you're probably town. You can call me dick but you can't call me Curu.
Does anybody else think that Jackal58 isn't man enough to shoot tonight?
So, you're pointing out that I lack confidence in my scum reads, I used subjectively instead of objectively, bringing up someone elses defense of you, and bringing up the fact that I have less of a filter then you, even though none of that has any bearing on the case I have against you
Here's a question, prplhz; why do you give so much of a shit if the bandwagon has gained zero momentum? Is it because you feel guilty, subconsciously, and are trying to prove to yourself, and everyone else, that you are innocent of something?
Sounds like you are clawing around, trying to not look inherently guilty.
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On March 14 2012 08:40 jaybrundage wrote:
Hm if this is Town VE I don't know quite what to say I have only seen VE's scum play. XD
Glad Palmar is here funny thing i only seen Palmar's town play XD (And one pro town third party)
Palmar are you going to claim your DT check or not :o.
Tommorow I think we should shoot into one of the scummy lurkers.
Holy crap.
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On March 15 2012 02:35 Katina wrote:
Have you guys noticed that Node has appeared to have fallen off the face of the earth? He hasn't responded to any of the cases that have been made against him. He comes in, points an empty finger at someone, then gone again. Take a look at his filter, don't worry it's not a long read so it won't take up much of your time. I would like to see him make a case in his defense or any case really....
Are you even bothering to read the thread?
Palmar, you claimed DT. Can you tell us who you checked?
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On March 15 2012 04:15 Palmar wrote:
seriously it's fucking annoying to play with people who don't attempt to play the game.
Not sure if you were referring to me or not, but I think my question is at least somewhat valid, seeing as how you posted this:
On March 14 2012 04:10 Palmar wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2012 04:09 Jackal58 wrote:
Why don't you role claim to all of us Palmar. Don't even need to use a PM.
EFFICIENCY FTMFW!!!!!!!!
which could be construed to say that you are the Detective. Since we aren't in PM contact, I can only glean stuff that you say in the thread.
Hence, my question.
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Hey DocH, why are you voting for Kurumi and not prplhz?
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On March 15 2012 05:07 DoctorHelvetica wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2012 04:55 Jitsu wrote:
Hey DocH, why are you voting for Kurumi and not prplhz? Because Kurumi knows what roles are in the game i.e. he is mafia
Yet, you thought prplhz had an equally telling scumslip, where he was near "confirmed," and this is also the same game where you wanted to hang me for posting against what I perceived as a scumslip as well, right?
Cool.
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Palmar, you aren't sure on this Kurumi thing. What is the thought process that you have regarding the situation?
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On March 15 2012 06:10 DoctorHelvetica wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2012 05:31 Jitsu wrote:On March 15 2012 05:07 DoctorHelvetica wrote:On March 15 2012 04:55 Jitsu wrote:
Hey DocH, why are you voting for Kurumi and not prplhz? Because Kurumi knows what roles are in the game i.e. he is mafia Yet, you thought prplhz had an equally telling scumslip, where he was near "confirmed," and this is also the same game where you wanted to hang me for posting against what I perceived as a scumslip as well, right? Cool. If you can point out where I said it was equally telling that'd be cool This is definitely worse than what prplhz said. Encouraging a suicide vig to shoot you is scummy as hell but it doesn't touch what Kurumi did. You don't think Kurumi is scum? Do you have blinders on because I called you out yesterday? Use your brain.
On March 14 2012 07:19 DoctorHelvetica wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2012 07:14 prplhz wrote:
Jackal58 you fucking shoot tonight if you're actually town. Confirmed scum? He said a bunch of times he's gonna shoot you. This means you both die if you're town since you have no guaranteed means of protection. If you're scum you can block and hit jackal which means you don't die and he never gets to claim his hit implicating you. Nice slip bro.
I did use my brain. Why would you call someone Confirmed Scum and not even bother voting for them?
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And no, I don't have blinders on.
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On March 15 2012 08:58 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
Kurumi is indefenseable at this point.
jaybrundage, you play like scummy shit all game then start demanding role claims from everyone. Stop doing that. If you're town, it's stupid and unhelpful.
With Kurumi gone, we need to shoot prplhz tonight or lynch him tomorrow. He's been on Jackal and didn't react to Jackal's claim but despite this obvious fakery from Kurumi, he chooses to ignore it then go after me. He is aggressive then immediately backs off and acts like he was just messin around. What a joke.
Curu straight up lies about things I say, he at least has the good sense to vote for Kurumi.
I'm not pushing Caller anymore, his claim seems to be legit and like I said I lost some confidence in him as the day went on and moved toward Jitsu (who is also misrepresenting me). It isn't scummy for a player to change their mind and it isn't my priority to tell the town about every change of thought or thing I think, otherwise I'd end up spamming the thread. If you're that interested in my thought process, just PM me, I'm not going to clutter the thread with that shit.
kurumi, prplhz, curu that's my best guess. Abenson, rgTheSchworz, Sentinel, probably scum or traitor between those 3. Dunno about Palmar. His play seems pro-town but I know he's good. If he's town this game is probably in the bag, if it's scum it's over since it seems a town circle has been built around him.
Nobody has PM'd me in this game yet, which surprises me a little.
I asked you a question on your thoughts, and you jumped off the deep end. It's over and done with. I'm at least cooled enough to think straight now, and hopefully you are the same.
kurumi, prplhz, curu that's my best guess.
I think this is pretty accurate. I think you could throw Jaybrundage into there, though. I can't feasibly do anything with RGTS because there is literally nothing to look into, Abenson's filter is pretty small as well, and I haven't even really looked that hard at Sentinel.
I agree with what you had to say about the PM, as well as what Jackal says about the role itself. The idea of the role seems a bit far-fetch'd. I keep trying to think of what it's use would be, especially as a town "passive, informative role." It would only fit as a scum role, and I still think it might be faked at that, especially since the developments since I left.
Kurumi is getting my vote for right now.
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Jackal, I know. I was agreeing with you.
You still have a PM? I'd love to talk to you.
Yours forever. <3
~Jitsu
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There a number of reasons. Most forthcoming reason for me is the fact that he stated he was the Dreamer, but can't seem to come up with something actually indicitive of what he claims his role is.
Then, after he is voted because he said he is a passive information role, he says "Oh, I also have an activatable ability attached onto it, I just didn't want to tell anyone because it didn't seem important at the time." Especially since he first stated it was a passive role, and then switching to saying it had an activated mechanic too it.
I can disregard the stuff early game - it could be true that he was baiting Mafia to guess Traitor on him, but it could also be possible that he really IS the traitor trying to get the mafia to recruit him. It's too much one way or another, but disregarding that, I think the fact that he kept adding elements to his role to appear as a blue isn't something an actual blue would do.
Below is also the rest of the stuff that I have on Kurumi for this game.
Overall Posting History this game:
Trolling. Barely contributed Day 1, and only changed his behavior when he got some serious votes for him, where he started to stammer and mess up his gameplay a bit. Things including typing in another language, "Baiting mafia traitor guesses," and the like were detremental to the town.
Analysis of Previous Game: Town
Kurumi replaced into the game as a town player in Storm Mafia. While he died the day he replaced, he can in activley trying to contribute, at least it seemed to me. Completely different feel this game from him.
@Jackal, you said that you though Kurumi was town because he came to you and said he knew Dreamflower was in the game because he was a "Dreamer." Do you think it would be possible that he knew that from the bit of information that the Mafia gets in the beginning, regarding blue roles?
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On March 16 2012 03:17 layabout wrote:jitsu, since he replaced into storm on day 3 or 4, storm is perhaps not the best example of is town play. Instead look at games like thishttp://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=2 this54174&user=68386 and other games here http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/search.php?q=mafia&t=c&f=-1&u=Kurumi&gb=date&d=&p=2If you want to get an idea of his typical day 1 town play. You might want to take a look at his scum play too, and realise that this doesn't look much like it.
Thank you LayAbout. The reason I didn't go beyond the most recent game, however, is because people might tend to change styles of play over long periods of time. I think if you go back to my first game (Election Mafia, which happened right before Responsability) you would see a shift in my game from then to now.
I don't like to think that simply because someone replaced halfway into a game makes them a better or worse player. Palmar came in this game himself, and is doing things that I can recognize as Town Palmar. Being aggressive, putting reads out there, gaining massive thread presense and controlling the mood. Kurumi subbed into Storm and was much more productive that game as a town player then this game as a player in general.
That is why I look at his overall posting history in this game, and what it looks to accomplish, and his overall posting history to last game, and what THAT was working to accomplish (Along with his actual alignment) and compare them. I figured since what I was doing before wasn't working, I might as well try something new and see how it works out, right?
Do you firmly believe Kurumi ISN'T Mafia? Like, are you near deadset on him flipping town?
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On March 16 2012 03:34 Katina wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2012 03:30 Jitsu wrote:On March 16 2012 03:17 layabout wrote:jitsu, since he replaced into storm on day 3 or 4, storm is perhaps not the best example of is town play. Instead look at games like thishttp://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=2 this54174&user=68386 and other games here http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/search.php?q=mafia&t=c&f=-1&u=Kurumi&gb=date&d=&p=2If you want to get an idea of his typical day 1 town play. You might want to take a look at his scum play too, and realise that this doesn't look much like it. Thank you LayAbout. The reason I didn't go beyond the most recent game, however, is because people might tend to change styles of play over long periods of time. I think if you go back to my first game (Election Mafia, which happened right before Responsability) you would see a shift in my game from then to now. I don't like to think that simply because someone replaced halfway into a game makes them a better or worse player. Palmar came in this game himself, and is doing things that I can recognize as Town Palmar. Being aggressive, putting reads out there, gaining massive thread presense and controlling the mood. Kurumi subbed into Storm and was much more productive that game as a town player then this game as a player in general. That is why I look at his overall posting history in this game, and what it looks to accomplish, and his overall posting history to last game, and what THAT was working to accomplish (Along with his actual alignment) and compare them. I figured since what I was doing before wasn't working, I might as well try something new and see how it works out, right? Do you firmly believe Kurumi ISN'T Mafia? Like, are you near deadset on him flipping town? I am pretty certain he will flip town
I'm also pretty certain the jury thought Casey Anthony was guilty, but it didn't matter because the D.A. didn't explain why.
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Yeah, Sentinel gives me a raw feeling too. I don't believe this is the first time that he has promised content but (probably) won't deliver.
Sentinel, why are you waiting to the deadline? If it's something beneficial to town, wouldn't it be smart to solidify a vote on someone, whether Kurumi or else? Why give the smallest amount of time possible for town to discuss things that you might have to say that might change our mind on something.
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On March 16 2012 06:12 Curu wrote:
lol Mattchew is probably scum too.
If Kurumi doesn't get lynched this Town is a joooooooke.
Also I'm fairly certain now that Palmar was BSing about the Kingmaker lynch to draw a reaction from Jackal.
He's not.
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LOL Curu. Quote. Of. The. Game.
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This Kurumi lynch is getting a lot of resistance.
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And also, who you are talking to that convinced you?
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Well, I just wanted to see the flip. Time to do some filter grinding in the AM after class.
Pretty hilarious how hard scum didn't want to get that train moving.
On the docket: anyone who said a lurker was a better lynch the Kurumi.
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I don't know. Palmar jumped in second to last to put a vote on Kurumi. You think he would seal his fate?
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On March 17 2012 03:00 Mattchew wrote:
well being that me and palmar jumped on in the last couple hours it is possible they didnt think the lynch would go through
I wouldn't really speculate on it one way or another. Mafia could have also tried to soft-bus Kurumi, but he was pushed into making a really bad fake-claim which resulted in him being lynched. It's all WIFOM.
I don't think we could go wrong with a Katina lynch at this point.
On March 16 2012 12:23 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
who was it that said i was mafia because i voted for kurumi instead of prplhz i forgot because it was so dumb i blocked it out of my mind for health reasons
I asked what you're reasoning between them was, and why you didn't vote for prplhz. I don't recall specifically going all out saying you were mafia.
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I can't really go along with someone who says someone will 100% flip scum when, just 24 hours ago, they added the last vote seal the fate of a mafia player.
I think Katina would ba fairly solid lynch.
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I'm on my iPad so putting a case together would be pretty lame right this moment. If people need a case to sway their votes, I'll do so tomorrow ASAP.
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Good catch Curu.
I would make sense in a number of ways. The ratio of the setup gives a large town advantage in numbers. It would make sense that our blue mechanics would have a negative side as well, like the dream flower or the parity DT.
I've never played with Caller before, but at least this game, he's more about inciting chaos then he is about fighting this out. It makes sense that something tipped Caller's hand; maybe Palmar revealed to Caller that he was a DT and he took the opportunity to shoot.
Little to no reasoning for the shot, chaotic posting behavior...yeah.
##vote Caller
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On March 18 2012 03:47 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
Caller has looked like scum since Day 1. I'm second guessing myself because of the dayvig thing but I guess I shouldn't go back on my policy of lynching those who look like scum regardless. I agree with prplhz actually.
It seems like a sure thing at this point, so, who's next? I vote jaybrundage
For two players who always seem to be at odds, are reads are fairly similar.
I think Caller is the right choice, at least for now. Katina still raises hairs on the back of my neck, and I think she should be dying sometime soon. I wouldn't be 100% adverse to a Jaydrundage kill either. While he did call out Kurumi (scum confirmed) and Katina (who I have this feeling is also scum, just look at that filter), I have this impression that he started a train he couldn't easily jump off of by just soft-bussing his team-mate. His initial argument was weaksause, and when enough people got on, it would have been way too obvious if he just unvoted it to force a no-lynch.
Thoughts?
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On March 18 2012 04:31 deconduo wrote:
Also the spreadsheet is missing a load of stuff. Anyone who hasn't claimed their PMs, or who has someone who is PMing them that hasn't been filled in needs to claim now.
Just VE.
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On March 19 2012 07:00 Mr. Wiggles wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2012 06:43 prplhz wrote:
∵ all scum sleep during the night
∵ you sleep during the night
∴ you are scum
it's a calista Actually scum are awake at night, and it's the townies who go to bed. :p
However, this town has been having an extreme time of staying awake. Might be narcolepsy.
I still think Katina is fairly scummy, even though there has been next to no posting since last Day. Call it a vibe, call it easy. Whatever.
Interested to see how Caller flips, although, I agree with what Wiggles said about the lack of defense. I guess it's easy to not give a shit when you have given up on hope.
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On March 19 2012 08:07 Mattchew wrote:
jitsu, i have stuck up for katina the entire game. yet she continues to push me being lynched and would probably vote me if it was realistic for me to be lynched.. why would scum not buddy me when I am saying she is town
I don't know. Why not ask her?
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On March 19 2012 08:32 Mattchew wrote:
god people get so scared of logic because and just throw the word WIFOM at it way too much
Who is scared of logic? I'm not a mind reader. I don't know why she does what she does.
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RE: DocH
I think it's moot at this point. Caller is pretty much on the way to the gallows, and with town discussion so poor at this point, I really feel uncomfortable switching lynches to someone I find only slightly scummier (Katina) for fear of not reaching our needed numbers.
I think Caller is the only option right now. Too little time to change.
Kurumi JUST squeaked by on getting lynched. I think a few mafia might have gotten caught off the train on that one, at least it makes sense, since there was such a high amount of resistance. They might be thinking that, since Caller is pretty much done for (we also might? be able to assume that he already used his only two shots) and he was targeted so early in the day, it might now even do any sense to try to recover him, and just bus him to death.
I feel that the fact that he has pretty much put up no resistance to his own lynch is a more telling sign. No?
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On March 19 2012 08:48 Mattchew wrote:
and this entire game is trying to read into other minds of why they do things lol
Thanks, Coach!
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On March 19 2012 09:11 jaybrundage wrote:
Matt why you tunnel bro XD
If you could lynch someone else besides me who would you lynch?
He's not tunneling. He's actually, like, wherebugsgo-Lite version. Ya know, like the iPad Apps that are free, but they cut out 75% of the useful content?
Similar to how Mattchew's filter is lacking in almost 90% of useful content, but I wasn't very good in maths.
So yeah, let's kill Caller.
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On March 19 2012 09:25 Mattchew wrote:
well i did post a lynch list of who i would like to lynch. abenson, layabout or sentinal would all be good after you
From the OP:
4 Mafia
1 Traitor
Town win condition: You win when all threats to the Town are eliminated.
Mafia win condition: You win when you control majority of the voting power in the Town or when nothing can stop you from outright killing everyone.
We can assume there are 5 Mafia at the maximum, considering Kurumi was red. Since he was confirmed red, you say Abenson, LayAbout, Sentinal, and Jay would be good lynches. That would total five.
1. Kurumi
2. Abenson
3. LayAbout
4. Sentinal
5. Jaybrundange
...
Then you vote Caller.
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Don't matter, got scum. Hahahahah.
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I'm not entirely surprised by the flip. After looking at the way the roles worked, it seems there is a negative to balance out the positive aspect of the role.
Jackals role was a vig that died if he chose poorly.
Deconduo is a Detective that checks PM lines.
It would make sense since the numbers seemed to favor town that the more vanilla type roles without the down side would be scum based. IE: day vig with two bullets.
Any thoughts on lunches tomorrow? I'm partial to Katina at the moment, still.
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On March 19 2012 14:19 EchelonTee wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2012 12:44 Jitsu wrote:
I'm not entirely surprised by the flip. After looking at the way the roles worked, it seems there is a negative to balance out the positive aspect of the role.
Jackals role was a vig that died if he chose poorly.
Deconduo is a Detective that checks PM lines.
It would make sense since the numbers seemed to favor town that the more vanilla type roles without the down side would be scum based. IE: day vig with two bullets.
Any thoughts on lunches tomorrow? I'm partial to Katina at the moment, still. I agree with what ur saying; this also means we should avoid making undue assumptions about the setup. it is a closed setup after all, we should focus on case building / reads until it comes to a mass claim stage. for lunch i'd like a burrito. miss mexican food
That was supposed to be lynches. I guess the iPad doesn't know what a lynch is. Lol.
I'll take a burger. Medium rare.
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I think the PM Detective could be a benefit to both mafia and town factions. As a town player, it could give insight in to who is PMing who (IE: if a strong player is PMing a weaker player) and try to snag the traitor (maybe, could be harder). As for mafia, it could be easy to just see who is connecting with who and killing town circles. There doesn't seem to be a major positive over negative in either regard.
I believe Deconduo is town. It would make sense why he was laying slightly low in the beginning (to gain information) and then has since picked up his posting cap after he claimed and revealed what he knew.
I think Bill Murray should be shot by a Vig. I don't think wasting a lynch on him would be beneficial, as the only major case against him is that he has been lurking hardcore, contributed shite to town...I mean, you could summerize the entire case against him by saying "go look at his filter."
However, my gut still tells me we should lynch Katina. My gut also said to lynch RoL near the end of Storm, and that turned out to be right, so i'm not second guessing on this one.
I'll be voting Katina in the AM.
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On March 20 2012 06:12 Bill Murray wrote:
Jaybundrage I've been pushing Caller SINCE HIS FIRST POST.
So sure of you're read on caller, you decided to vote for me to be lynched on the first day, eh?
Bill's filter from the voting thread.
On March 11 2012 19:07 Bill Murray wrote:
##vote gumshoe
On March 12 2012 14:59 Bill Murray wrote:
##unvote gumshoe
##vote caller
On March 12 2012 15:36 Bill Murray wrote:
##unvote caller
##Vote Jitsu
Sounds more like you are trying to gain Town Cred by saying you were suspicious then actually pushing the fact that he was scum, since you ended up voting for me.
I think BM would be a decent enough kill as well.
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Likewise, thanks to Ver and Incog for hosting dis shite.
If anyone has any constructive criticism for me, feel free to go ahead and lay it out. It would really appreciate it.
I thought I had played slightly better in this game, especially better then Storm. It felt good because I was actually starting to put a case together on DrH, but stumbled and gave up on it because I thought his explosion was a town reaction, and if I had posted something, it would have been buried by the WIFOM label. I was pretty suspicious of ET too, but he had gotten on me early as well, same as BM.
Was that coordinated? There was a point where the last three remaining scum had FoSd me at some point in the game?
GG guys. Let me know if anyone has tips for improvement.
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Unless you are Zerg. Then you make expand, then try to defense it, but lose it anyway.
Ok, i'm out of this convo before it gets outta controlllllll.
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On March 29 2012 07:50 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
Katina you really nailed me but you need to work on your tunneling. Your inactivity and complete focus in on me was what got you killed. Try posting more, pressure people you think are scum and get them to slip up.
I actually had a word document called "Case on DocH," but I thought that you're explosion was extremely townie, and therefore deleted it. Except for that one time, which pretty much made me think you were town (along with early vote on Kurumi), I thought you had some pretty large negatives.
FML and my ability to follow my gut/have confidence.
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EPT
