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Ok I guess that was hypocritical, my bad. I still fail to see your point. Bluelightz always lurks he can't help it. Maybe it is an addiction or some kind of phobia but I have yet to see a game where he contributes. The difference here is that he has specific things to respond to that he is ignoring.
Palmar on the other hand can go from one liners to decent cases. He doesn't have a set style. As for your favourite quote of his 
Should we just not believe any claims? I agree with his logic that there was no reason not to believe you. AKCT was suspicious and you made it clear you thought so before you claimed. It is far more likely that you were telling the truth than you were lying in an attempt to trap him. Turns out we were wrong but that doesn't make the logic bad.
Again, if you have a point, make it because right now you are just being annoying.
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See that is why you need to make your point clear. Didn't seem funny to me and I have a fucked up sense of humour. Whilst I have, I assume you still think Bluelightz is scum? Anyone else?
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Prob to Bluelightz: Come out come out where-ever you are. I knowed you around cause I seed you posting elsewhere.
Bluelightz to Prob: ...
Prob to Bluelightz: *swings mighty hammer of the gods squishing him into sticky bloo goo*
Prob
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On March 07 2012 11:30 Probulous wrote:Prob to Bluelightz: Come out come out where-ever you are. I knowed you around cause I seed you posting elsewhere. Bluelightz to Prob: ... Prob to Bluelightz: *swings mighty hammer of the gods squishing him into sticky bloo goo* Prob 
Before anyone claims this is me implying Bluelightz is blue and I want to kill him, I would point out that his name is Bluelightz. Don't derp people, it's bad for your health. I am serious though, he posted in the Kaller game and has decided to avoid this thread. If he turns out to be town this game, than I will vote for him on Day 1 whenever we meet again. This shit is crazy.
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On March 07 2012 11:45 Mattchew wrote: Im in the car ffor an hour if wiggles isn't around I'll make post then don't go crazy
Pfft where is the commitment? I can't believe you haven't built yourself a hands-free voice recognition based dictation plugin for your car radio combined with a mobile wifi satellite to ensure we have our night post on time. It's just not good enough.
Yes I have no idea about technology stuff...
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Well we're fucked 
Bluelightz I am coming for you. You don't get by with your lurking and such nonsense anymore.
##vote Bluelightz
Adam, now that night is over and you are safe in your cosy little house, where is this analysis you were so scared of showing? You never even posted before the deadline which means your excuse of not wanting to die is just that, an excuse.
On a separate note, Vig anyone? If there is no claim we can be pretty sure there is a serial killer (2 KP). I can see a Vig shooting Jackal (maybe) but not Palmar. He was pretty clearly town after he pushed sandroba so early. Combined with the Sandroba claim I think we can be pretty sure there is a SK.
Is there anyone else here?
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On March 07 2012 12:02 Paperscraps wrote: I shot Jackal58.
Why? I mean I know he was lurking and stuff but to shoot him on Night 2 is adventurous to say the least. Why didn't you claim your shot before the deadline?
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Yeah I don't like that. You were on the scummy list of a few people and so were unlikely to be shot overnight. There are plenty of others who you could have pushed to lynch today and saved your shot for tonight when you have more information. I wouldn't put it past you as scum to claim your shot as a vigilante shot and try to coast on that. I'll wait and see what others have to say because I was pretty convinced we have a SK. It lines up with sandroba's claim and just makes mores sense to me than you being a vig who shot Jackal. I'll keep an open mind for the moment.
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Knowing Palmar's role now from his posts I see the following
Option 1 - Night 1 he watched someone and got nothing. His first reaction after the night is to say to Decon "I will make sure you die this game." But then he straight up votes for AKCT after Pandain's claim and goes on to vote for Sandroba. Now given RG was shot by mafia (I think we all agree on that at least) if he watched RG, then he would have no reason to believe Pandain's claim unless AKCT was the shooter. If ACKT was the shooter then he wouldn't have changed his vote. So I don't think he watched RG night 1. He also didn't push anyone really hard except sandroba.
Option 2 - He watched sandroba and saw no hit Now if we assume he was watching sandroba his insistence on lynching sandroba would make sense if he knew that sandroba was lying. But then again he didn't push for sandroba's lynch very hard. This in particular
yeah I'm still fine with killing sandroba. Pandain is dumb, but he's probably town. Doesn't say anything about AKCT's alignment really. But hey who cares. ##Vote Sandroba doesn't read like someone convinced 100% of sandroba's guilt. Especially not a Palmar. So I don't think he watched sandroba. If he did he would either have seen who shot him (real claim) or he would have pushed for the sandroba lynch harder (fake claim).
Maybe I am WIFOMing myself but I think this is useful information. Anyone else have any ideas about this.
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On March 07 2012 12:48 Pandain wrote: this seems set up. Claim immediately after, because you like "suprises?" When your already under suspicion? Yeah, no.
That was my thinking too. If you want to claim a shot as vig especially if you are under suspicion you do it just before the deadline. That way there is no doubt about your shot. 2 minutes after the deadline is just too late. That being said if this was a gambit by mafia they would know who they were going to shoot and so could claim in the same manner. Unfortunately this tells us nothing about his alignment.
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I think Adam4167 and Paperscraps are both on the mafia team. Both of them defended sandroba in one way or another. They have hardly communicated in thread and neither have given an opinion on the other. When I called Adam for his scummy question this is what Paper wrote
No I gather you are wondering that if maybe mafia hit and roleblocked rg, then Adam's question would show some concern. We have know way of knowing that. Also Adam has been towntelling recently. I don't think he is scum. But he never gives us any indication of why Adam is town. What is towntelling about his behaviour? He completely dismisses my point without actually explaining why. It took Pandain to do that.
Then his scummy claim of the Jackal shot rings false to me. He never outlines a case on Jackal other than he was lurking. Jackal lurks a lot and he could have saved his shot for at least another night. It is way too risky a kill for a Vig who was never going to get shot. It doesn't make sense from a town Paperscraps point of view. There are other lurkers including Bluelightz who look far worse but he chooses to shoot the veteran? From scum point of view Jackal is liability to keep around better to shoot him and claim the shot. This way Paper might be believed as a Vig and Jackal dies. In addition attention is drawn away from the Jackal kill itself.
As for Adam he is trying really hard not to contribute but seem like he is. The only case he has put together has been on Palmar. What is also interesting but somewhat prone to WIFOM is that he targeted Palmar who is now dead. Jackal targeted him and is also now dead. This ties in with Paper taking credit for the shot. It draws attention away from Adam. He was not surprised that RG flipped green (implying he didn't believe his claims) but he wasn't surprised that he was shot. This is contradictory because if you don't believe his claims you would not expect him to be shot. He has never mentioned Paperscraps despite the abundance of people who have. Their only direct communication was about sandroba being a SK.
All of this is despite their terrible voting. Adam's wishy-washy switch to sandroba at the last minute which flatly contradicts his reasoning for voting for Palmar. Paperscraps vote on decon and then using this as a reason to vote for sandroba
If you aren't even going to try, then you are going to get lynched. Which is the very next post after Deconduo, TheToast, and Jackal are all better lynches. I don't know if we should lynch Sandroba yet, due to the hit claim. Sandroba is on ice though and needs to start contributing as do a lot of other players. It's way too convenient. Sandroba had made it clear that he was actively not contributing. Why the sudden change? I'll tell you because it became clear they couldn't save him.
I would be happy to vote for either of these two.
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On March 07 2012 13:01 Snarfs wrote:Awful quick vote there against a guy who's claiming blue. We have 2 days to figure out if he's lying or not, we should use it.
Snarfs you have been logical this game. Who do you think is the best lynch out of Adam, Paperscraps and Bluelightz. Right now they are the one's I would consider lynching.
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I hope you are not serious cause this is like WTF fail.
On March 07 2012 13:43 Adam4167 wrote: I've been acting like a dick to you because I thought you were scum the second you sheep voted onto sandroba with the reasoning of "my reads look a lot like Palmars, so ill vote like he does".
Let me clarify that for you (linky) Here are the important bits from that quote
On March 03 2012 06:04 Probulous wrote: Right now my reads correlate best with Palmar....Sandroba, you're not helping yourself. The quote from Jackal in L corresponds very well to your current play. This is why I want Jackal's opinion. He shot you then, would he shoot you now? Toast is right to call you out for lack of contribution. Your response enforces his case. ##vote Sandroba
It is pretty clear that I just said my reads correlate. I then go on to explain that sandroba's play is very similar to his play in Mafia L where he was scum. I even asked Jackal to comment because I (wrongly it turns out) thought he had shot sandroba. The point being I clearly thought he was scum. Compare this to your vote reason
On March 06 2012 08:55 Adam4167 wrote: Its far too late in the day to start pushing another case. Id like to see a resolution to this night-hit situation. ##Vote sandroba This after defending him all day long. You don't even say he is scum.
You've sidetracked this game into setup discussion which boils down to an answer no townie can know on more than one occasion. You asked Pandain for his reads on who he thought was scum, he named Bluelightz, Jackal and myself. This is a glaring contradiction to his stance towards me yesterday. He was actively defending me and pushing the lynch in any other direction. Yet you don't even bat an eye-lid at his complete 180.
He has been town to me since very early game. His interactions with Toast up front made him townie to me. Then his gambit which confirmed AKCT could be mafia but from my reading seems to be town. Besides he is actively contributing. He is here and discussing stuff with me. You are never here. Besides if you are so sure he is scum, why the vote on me? Either you think he is town (like me) or your point is bullshit.
You have not built a case here. Nothing you have quoted or pointed out comes from only a mafia's agenda. You say you have been contributing a lot. Well point me to a case besides Palmar where you label someone as scum for a reason? I can't see anything in your filter except for some defense with Jackal and me.
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EBWOP: OK reread you say you actively are not contributing. Point? If anything this just proves my point, you are useless and town Adam is not useless. You refuse to post information when we ask and you have done nothing all game. This does not make sense from a town perspective, especially if you have been targeted by others. You don't seem to want to even try and provide something of use.
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For my other town members out there please take a good look at this. This is what happens when mafia get caught with their pants down. They know I am on the right track, they know that I have some level of legitimacy in this town and they know the only possible way to silence me is to get me lynched and the bury my thoughts in the subsequent recrimination.
If Adam really thought I was mafia since Day 2, why would he vote for sandroba with such a terrible reason? He asked me about my "sheeping" of Palmar and I explained it. He apparently dropped it but was not satisfied by my response. What townie does that? If you don't like the response someone gives you, you push hard until you get a satisfactory one or there is no hope of resolution. Otherwise the question is just not important. But suddenly now, after I put together my case on Paper and Adam that innocuous question which I thought I had dealt with is the mother of all scum tells that proves I am mafia?
Look at everything I have done this game. I have pushed people on their vote records, I have tried to fathom what breadcrumbs I could from Palmar's demise, I have kept the thread going when no-one else was. I have pushed and prodded many of you to try and find the truth.
Adam, well Adam as he admits has done nothing. He has an aweful reason for voting for sandroba that flatly contradicts his reason for voting for Palmar. His reasoning for voting for someone who was never going to get lynched was he didn't think that Misder or sandroba was scum. Ok fair enough, but why on Day 2 do you suddenly change to sandroba with the reason of why the hell not? Especially if you think I am scum?
##vote Adam4167
Two reds in a row, this town is on a role.
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Did you even read my cases against Bluelightz? I said as my first act in this game I would make sure he doesn't lurk. I have pushed him all game to provide something. What else am I supposed to do to make his alignment clear to us. I mean I can't very well post for him, the best I can do is place my vote and pressure him. It didn't work yesterday so my vote moved. No harm in trying again, but here you are undermining my efforts in this department.
I don't even know what to say here. One list of timezones and suddenly I am not contributing. *Shock horror* Please pull the other one.
It doesn't matter if his logic is horrible, what matters is whether I think he is town or scum. His defense whilst all over the place still seemed townie to me. Now after Pandain's gambit it seems he is townie, so hoorah I was correct. How this is a mark against me I have no idea?
I admit that post doesn't contain as much info as I originally thought it did. I was just trying to show how it made no sense to shoot RG. He clearly couldn't be a Vig or SK because he contradicted himself so often, therefore he must have been a VT or Veteran. Sure I could have worded it better but it is not the only thing I have posted.
You accuse me of looking as if i'm trying to contribute, when it is exactly what you have been doing all game.
I do think Pandain is town. I think you're scum. Your defence of yourself is to deflect back onto my questionable actions this game. That is not a defence at all.
The irony is strong with this one. I have nothing to defend, I am town, my actions show that. You have not provided a coherent case. When I present my case on you, you come back with this and you say I am the one deflecting.
I am never here because I have uni to attend, I am getting really sick of stating that. In fact, I'm going to be not here some more as I have uni work to finish. If you're not going to play, don't play. You have had plenty of time to put something together, only when pushed do you suddenly find the time to put a case on me. No, this time you are mafia and I am town. The roles have switched and yet again we are on opposite sides. This time I hope to return the favour.
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I would also like to make a public apology to both TheToast and the hosts of this game. My actions were not intended in a malicious manner but they are against the rules.
Mr Wiggles has been gracious enough to give me a warning and let it be.
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On March 07 2012 16:21 Paperscraps wrote: @Pandain: Why would I claim I shot Jackal if I was scum? There is no motivation as scum to do this. Unless I was tracked or something, in which I would have to cc of course. I really don't get your logic here.
I am not getting lynched. I am clear. Jackal seemed scummy and was not contributing at all, thus he was a good shot. It is unfortunate he flipped green, but we have one less lurker now.
Pandain you have been playing well up to this point, but your vote on me makes no sense.
Everyone really needs to look at TheToast, Deconduo and Bluelightz.
Paper why did you shoot last night? Here is why I ask. You were on people's scum list, it was clear that there were other targets far more likely to get shot than you. You could have saved your shot and pushed Jackal today for more information. You hardly pressured him at all. Yes he was lurking but he always lurks. As for why you would claim the shot, to clear your name. You just did it wrong. I honestly don't know what to make of your claim. If you had claimed before the deadline and had presented a case before night ended I would trust it but now well it is hard to believe.
More importantly what is your opinion of Adam and his case on me?
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On March 07 2012 16:21 Paperscraps wrote: I still think there is an SK.
14 players with ~3 or 4 mafia would be unbalanced. A third party would balance the setup. Town has two blue roles at the moment. Watcher(dead) and Vigilante(Me). It is probably safe to assume there is a medic as well. So that is 3 blue roles out of ~10 town players. This is just a guess of course, but would make the most sense balance wise.
So someone was double-stacked last night then? You claim a shot, mafia obviously shoot and SK shoots. No-one else has claimed a shot so someone must have been double-stacked. After last night there is less evidence for a SK.
Night 1 sandroba claims a hit and turns out to be scum. Could be a gambit could be a SK with a mafia medic protect. Still only 1 confirmed KP.
Night 2 Palmar and Jackal shot. You claim a shot as a Vig. If this is true then surely mafia made the other hit. To me it seems more likely there is no SK than the SK double-stacked either yours or the mafia's hit. Still only one confirmed KP.
Now of course if you are lying about being a vig then it makes sense that there is a SK to account for the second KP.
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On March 07 2012 16:51 Paperscraps wrote: @Snarfs: Who do you think is scum between Adam and Probulous?
It is hard to tell right now because both of their logic is kind of whack.
Here let me lay it out for you.
Things Probulous has done for town
- Repeatedly attempted to get lurkers to post. eg Bluelightz
- Pushed everyone as potential scum to ascertain alignment (except possibly decon)
- Voted for sandroba on both Day 1 and Day 2
- Has pushed people for their reasoning for suspicious votes after a flip
- Posts often and responds to all queries
- Changes his mind when new evidence comes to light and is happy to change his reads. See AKCT
- Made his reasons for voting for Sandroba clear
I could go find quotes and evidence of this and more stuff I have done but it should be plainly obvious that I am town. I may not be the most effective but I am certainly trying. When Palmar noted sandroba looked scummy I went into his history. I found that game with Jackal and compared his play then and now. It fitted with him actively avoiding the thread. So I voted for him, then he claimed and looked scummier because I didn't believe he was a vet, so I voted for him again. You can't argue that I have not made reasons for my votes clear.
Things Adam4167 has done for town- Pushed and voted for Palmar on Day 1
- Defended himself from Jackal and myself Day 2
- His case on me
He has not even attempted to make his alignment clear. He says is busy and so can't post but he posts often enough not to be a lurker. His filter is as long as snarfs who has looked town for ages.
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