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DoctorHelvetica
United States15034 Posts
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DoctorHelvetica
United States15034 Posts
On February 21 2012 07:38 kitaman27 wrote: Is this the standard mafia "opps I got caught in a discrepancy". Time to claim change in playstyle! I hate these meta arguments. People are not automatons that play every single game as a particular alignment in the exact same fashion. Stupid question too, doesn't pressure him even if he is mafia. I've never seen a policy lynch work on TL, not even LAL because town players here lie so often and my perspective is that TL towns are fairly gullible in general. On February 21 2012 07:24 redFF wrote: I disagree, I think a policy lynch day 1 does a number of useful things. I will lay them out. Day 1 is the hardest day to get a scumlynch, as town has the least information available to it. A policy lynch means not possibly mislynching a strong town player. Policy lynches and the reactions to them are very useful. They get lots of juicy reactions. We get rid of a bad. Honestly the chance of a policy lynch hitting scum is about as good as hitting scum from a flimsy day 1 case. We also don't lynch radfield the blue day 1, but thats similar to my only point regarding getting rid of a bad. Day 1 is usually somewhat of a crapshoot in 48/24 games. Policy lynches are good, embrace them. There have been good Day 1 cases on multiple occasions. On Day 1 in the ongoing Arkham City game both VisceraEyes/Sheth got pretty close to the chopping block. "Bad" is a subjective term as well, who decides whether a player is good or bad? The "town"? You might as well pick a random amount of "bad" inactives and just RNG the lynch, what a waste of a Day 1 discussion. Putting votes on inactive townies/policy lynches generates almost no real pressure on a player over whether or not they are scum but only creates arguments over whether or not a policy lynch is justified. Mafia is designed so that the town can still win fairly easily even if they mislynch on the first day. It is not designed to make it impossible to lynch scum on first day or so that people will not try. You get better discussion out of people making, or being forced to make, real cases on people. When mafia have to make bad analysis, they get exposed. You don't have to policy lynch to avoid lynching "blue radfield" or anything like that either. | ||
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DoctorHelvetica
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DoctorHelvetica
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On February 21 2012 08:19 redFF wrote: PEOPLE PEOPLE PEOPLE The game has been going on for an hour, my suggestion of a policy lynch does not mean I don't want anyone to scumhunt. It's an excellent way to generate discussion, which it has. VE's post is hypocritical because he's calling me scum for pushing a policy lynch when he himself was pushing a policy lynch up until that post, when it arbitrarily became a scum lynch. Consider him my first moderately scummy read. You're better than this. He never ever said your PL position was bad, but that you are spammy. Please read posts before you start OMGUSing. Considering you have time to spam you should have time to read. | ||
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DoctorHelvetica
United States15034 Posts
On February 21 2012 08:29 chaoser wrote: And you need to read better. red is saying VE's vote on him was him pushing for a policy lynch while at the same time he is criticizing him for pushing a policy lynch on tyrran. That is a big problem. Care to respond VE? No, it's not a problem. I disagree with the policy lynch in general but I really don't see how VE is contradicting himself at all. Supporting a policy lynch does not mean you can't be critical of RedFF posting a lot of one liners and talking about it/defending it so vehemently. He isn't accusing of redFF for being scum for supporting a PL anyway, or even for "pushing" it. He never said those words. It's an invented case. I'm voting for red. | ||
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DoctorHelvetica
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On February 21 2012 08:40 redFF wrote: Nothing I've done is scummy and this is not going to get off the ground so enjoy your lonely wagon ve and drh. Defensively misrepresenting other players arguments seems scummy to me. You're just contributing another negative oneliner devoid of content. If you're not scum, you're really careless. | ||
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DoctorHelvetica
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On February 21 2012 08:49 redFF wrote: I'm fairly sure carelessness is a towntell if anything, so thanks for saying im acting like town? Yeah that's why I said if you're not scum you're acting really careless. Regardless making terrible arguments, misrepresenting other players, and being antagonistic as a defensive action are not helping you here. | ||
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DoctorHelvetica
United States15034 Posts
On February 21 2012 11:17 redFF wrote: explain how any arguments i've made have been terrible. You can't just say this without any backing up. you said i was misrepping and i explained how i wasn't and you didnt respond. is being antagonistic a scumtell? If so then wbg is scum every game! One good example of misrepresenting is by insinuating I'm calling you town/contradicting myself based on something I didn't say at all. | ||
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DoctorHelvetica
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DoctorHelvetica
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I'm keeping my vote on redFF because he was the only player that so obviously misrepresented/twisted other peoples words and facts to make his cases and scum really have to do that to make any kind of convincing bandwagon at all, unless it's a (wouldn't you know it) policy lynch or piling onto some expendable player like Kenpachi. Some things WBG said jumped out at me as odd, especially his claims that redFF is unreadable. I highly doubt that is the case. I have not played with redFF a lot but there are far more obnoxious and spammy players who are not terribly difficult to pin down. Players who are overly concerned with antagonizing others, talking about how other people are bad, etc. are not helping anybody, they are not moving us closer to lynching scum, this is scum behavior. The lynch ends tomorrow at 1PM PST correct? | ||
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DoctorHelvetica
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DoctorHelvetica
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DoctorHelvetica
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On February 22 2012 11:44 Jitsu wrote: I wouldn't roll with a BC lynch at the moment. He pretty much said exactly what I was thinking with the "role does not equal alignment." There is no defined set-up information, and it could be plausible that a tracker type would be on the mafia side. No? Dirkzor Cool case, brah. Would it be ok to say that chaoser is a red read to you, then? If not, who then? He made one okay point therefore we shouldn't lynch him? I agree with it too. That doesn't mean anything really. BC is way better than this. He's playing negatively, passively, he's criticizing others for not contributing past the PL discussion but offers nothing to the thread himself. Yeah, RedFF could be faking it and the fact that he hasn't said a role name yet makes me suspect but I feel way stronger about BC with that last post of his now. | ||
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DoctorHelvetica
United States15034 Posts
On February 22 2012 12:15 wherebugsgo wrote: I haven't personally attacked anyone in this thread. I have called them bad, I have said that their play sucks, and that they are in general useless for town. All of these things are game-relevant and actually pretty important. If you're referring to the fact that I said your agreement with syllo cements my opinion that syllo is wrong, then yes, you deserved that (and no, it is not ad hominem.) It is my opinion that syllo is wrong, and your agreement is bad. That's just indicative of you being bad. Since Dr. H also agrees with syllo, and his posting has been quite shitty, I think he's scum. I think you're just mad because I pointed out that your opinion is worth next to nothing since it's clearly wrong. Why would I be your second strongest read rather than syllo, in this case? Can you logically demonstrate why any case against BC is terrible instead of simply stating that it is and FOSing the people who suspect him? | ||
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DoctorHelvetica
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On February 22 2012 12:56 wherebugsgo wrote: Because you sheeped and syllogism didn't. prpl would be a scumread too if he was normally any good. But, it's nothing out of the ordinary to expect prplhz to make a bad argument, so despite the fact that he agrees with an opinion I disagree with it isn't alignment indicative for him. I probably could, but I don't have to, since the burden of proof is on you. If you want to convince someone to vote BC you need to come up with a convincing argument first. For now, since your vote reason is poor, no one has a reason to follow you. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosophic_burden_of_proof I stated my reasons. If you'd like me to do so in more detail, I can do that. I'm not sheeping syllogism, in fact I did not even read his post as I've been busy all day but BC's lack of activity and the few posts I have read jump out to me as scummy and since I'm torn between redFF being awful town or scum, I'm going with BC. You "probably" could? If you are going to say any vote on BC is terribad and call people scum for it have some confidence. When I actually have time to look through filters tomorrow maybe you'll feel I'm more justified but it doesn't seem you're all that concerned about it really. | ||
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DoctorHelvetica
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He's playing negatively, passively, he's criticizing others for not contributing past the PL discussion but offers nothing to the thread himself. WBG won't give me an ounce of credit, but I did point out a bit more than just "uhhhh he looked scummy uhhh" and this post was meant to justify my vote change before I made a real case. I'd rather avoid scum and the sheeple jumping on me for changing my vote quietly. I've been out and about all night but considering my doubts with redFF I'm not going to keep my vote on him when I feel better about somebody else. Calling that a soft defense is stupid. You have been defending red much harder based on nothing but meta reads early in this game. I am currently more intrigued at the people who have let policy discussion run so damn rampant for even this short a duration of a game who (in my mind) should know better. This is, in essence, saying we should be scumhunting instead. Something that BC has not done and justified not doing, when I see no reason that town-BC would act in this manner. This is a typical scum posting behavior, they act like they are contributing or juuuuuust about to do some great things for town and just never do it. Instead of contributing something positive, they just criticize and put down/parrot what other people are doing and this can sometimes give the illusion that they have done something useful. The best way to get town on the right track is not by telling everyone they suck and to shut up, it is to post well/make cases and guide the discussion in the right direction. This was essentially the main point in syllogisms argument if I'm not mistaken. Can you explain why that is wrong and terrible, WBG? On February 22 2012 10:37 BloodyC0bbler wrote: Why did I subject myself to read this fucking nonsense. Do I have to say this? Role does not equal alignment. Redff claiming his role in hopes to confirm his alignment is horseshit. In an unknown setup and him claiming that there may be multi target abilities the chances of mafia having a role to find said abilities is just as within reason as the town. He then states that if he is roleblocked to lynch him, but says its not optimal to lynch claimed blues? Contradiction and sounds like hes just finding any reason to stay alive. This level of play is so insanely bad that it makes me sad. He knows all this and yet still does the play to create a total shit fest of a thread and does not in anyway create a pro town environment. As for syllo. Get off my nuts. 5 hours is never enough information to actually commit to a read especially given my horrible ability to differentiate between bad play and bad scum. Find other straw men to go burn. ##vote redff My understanding is that redFF is saying he shouldn't be lynched right away except under the exceptional circumstances he mentioned. It's not a contradiction, it's an exception. If I'm wrong about that point it out but I'll go over red's filter again and check myself. Get off my nuts. 5 hours is never enough information to actually commit to a read especially given my horrible ability to differentiate between bad play and bad scum. Find other straw men to go burn. I'm certainly not asking you to go nail the scum in 5 hours, you're being asked to contribute beyond being negative about what's going on already. You can tell us all how bad we are as long as you want, you've been on TL long enough to know that won't do anything except fan the flames. Inject a little bit of good into it. Nice job justifying your lack of effort, negging yourself a little bit. I think BC is scum and I'm voting for him. Considering it's still Day 1 it's not a homerun 100% nailed done deal fucking case, but I'm going to put my vote where I feel it needs to be. I don't care that BC is a vet or any other nonsense meta arguments for lynching/not lynching any player in this game. | ||
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DoctorHelvetica
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DoctorHelvetica
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@Dirkzor This is very troubling: I find it highly unlikely that RedFF is scum. followed by At the same time we can't just keep RedFF around because he claimed a blue role. If you find it highly unlikely a player is scum, you shouldn't talk about lynching them or encouraging DT's and Vig's to possibly hit him. Your case on BH is fair though. I'm in the process of second guessing myself a lot because of how uncomfortable I feel about VisceraEyes right now. I don't understand VE's meta at all but I don't need to at the moment. I let him slip by Day 1 on Arkham City and I always make the same mistakes that lets this kind of thing happen, I lack confidence. Hopefully BC responds adequately to the pressure, but for the moment I'm pretty uncertain. Considering the time I think it's highly unlikely that anyone besides redFF will be lynched. If he is indeed the tracker, it doesn't give us really much to work with considering the ease and size of the bandwagon. | ||
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DoctorHelvetica
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On February 23 2012 02:22 Jitsu wrote: The fact that I had the same idea is less about me agreeing with it and more about having the same train of thought. Did you read L? Everyone was making the same case about him in L, saying how he was causing more chaos then good, especially with revealing his role. Not comfortable with lynching him at this point. I could get down with a Dirkzor lynch. - non-committal early on, staying out of the spotlight for the most part. - says that chaoser is curious because he is "flippy floppy" - This post makes just about zero sense to me. It's more of the same, with a bit of confusion as well. If I wanted to post something to make it look like a contribution, this would be it. - says he can't wrap his head around this game, then two posts later, claims chaoser as his primary scumread, and adds a [weak] case about how chaoser is scum. - doesn't even vote for chaoser, even though it's his target. Something is up. ##vote Dirkzor No, I'm completely unfamiliar with BC's meta other than a game I played with him as scum too long ago to remember. That game was a perfect victory for us too. Dirkzor has made some alarming posts but also some solid points against other players, I want to hear how he responds to criticism before I consider lynching him because I may just be misunderstanding or misreading him. On February 23 2012 02:26 Blazinghand wrote: I still don't see what the problem is with lynching redFF at this point. He's never gonna get shot by the mafia if he's town just to make us sad, will get RBed or *And I think this is the case* he's just mafia and punched out this tracker claim since he's out of breathing room and will claim RB. So you sheep all game and then say it's okay to lynch town just because "mafia won't shoot him" night 1? How do you know what the mafia will do? WIFOM galore and lynching town is not okay. | ||
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DoctorHelvetica
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On February 23 2012 02:43 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote: K, I know you are smarter than this or at the very least functionally literate, so I'm going to give you around 20 minutes to read the last 3 pages of the thread and realize why this isn't some dumb wifom shit, its an obvious end result of RedFF's dipshit scummy claim. It is WIFOM. I agree scum would probably not shoot redFF if he is town AND survives Day 1 considering he's distracting and an easy lynch target, but I don't agree that it's alright to lynch town. redFF's claim is stupid and I'm not sold on it considering he didn't even say a name with it and just dipped out immediately. They should roleblock him but I just don't like making arguments or lynches based on predicting what the mafia will do. I can think of countless times I've been scum and we've concocted to do the opposite of what town would expect, even make bad shots just to confuse people. Mafia is not a game played by machines that make the most efficient decisions and even if what he said is likely correct, it is not helpful. | ||
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DoctorHelvetica
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On February 23 2012 02:43 syllogism wrote: prplhz looks pretty awful. He doesn't really have many opinions of his own, asks a lot of questions and his posts are constructed in a way that makes it look like he is just filling space. He appears certain that redff isn't mafia, but also thinks he has to be lynched at some point. Just look at this post A lot of things are suspicious about this post, but just to name one he asserts that redff is an easy lynch and thus we "aren't going to find anybody else". That is complete nonsense and just seems filler. Him randomly assigning blame on wbg seems off too. He thinks redff is not scum, but hasn't even tried to find anyone else. The only thing he has going for him is his attack on bc, but considering he is just sheeping me and not pushing at all, that doesn't mean much. He hasn't bothered to post today and he has definitely been around but doesn't seem to care. His point isn't the kind that I'd make, but it's understandable. He was right to call out WBG too, if WBG is going to say everything redFF has done is scummy despite defending him half the game (then falsely accusing me of doing the same) he should explain why. | ||
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DoctorHelvetica
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On February 23 2012 03:04 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote: You just got bumped up a few priorities on my scum list congrats, you are now neck and neck with BC. Okay. If there is any reason scum won't shoot RoL, it'd be the fact that he seems to have quit the game and will probably get modkilled anyway. | ||
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DoctorHelvetica
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Have some balls. A big reason scum lost Insane Mafia was because I was scared to go after Ace not because he put up a convincing argument, but because I was intimidated by his stature and felt like no one would listen to me. Since then I've vowed not to let somebodies prestige or whatever influence my thoughts on them. @layabout I have an odd feeling about VE, but the way he's jumping around just seems like bad town to me. Second guessing himself and not really sure where to go, I understand this type of play because it's something I've done a lot as town. I'll read his filter in more detail, there are a few things in your analysis where you're kind of filling in the blanks. Changing your mind or losing confidence in a read isn't particularly scummy, it's fairly normal for town players to do. A town player doesn't have the implicit guilt that a mafia player has and might not feel the need to tell the town about every change in thought or doubt that goes on in their mind. Consider this. If VE was scum, trying to get redFF lynched initially as he did, why would he then throw doubt onto it? The bandwagon was gaining momentum and it would have been very easy to just stay quiet and let the lynch happen, or keep throwing suspicion onto redFF while hedging your bets just a tiny bit. In fact this sentence VE really didn't think that redFF looked scummy but was still willing to try to start a bandwagon Actually implies that you know he is town. If he was scum, he doesn't "think" redFF looks scummy or not, any fake scum wagon is done under the knowledge that a player is not scum. Considering how many other people at the time and still think redFF was/is scum, VE's actual opinion on the validity of the arguments is irrelevant because the bandwagon would succeed anyhow, he would just have to put up a little bit of pressure. VE even says, in the posts you quoted, the specific thing that made him doubt that redFF was scum even though he initially believed him to be. None of these things make VE seem more or less town to me, but by using your logic your accusations don't make sense. Other than that, I strongly agree with most of your points particularly this one referring to VE unFoSing Red for pointing out RoL's inactivity. That was what it took to remove redFF from VE's lynch list. Simply pointing out that another player had not been posting. That action is alignment neutral and is it is absurd that that could be enough to convince VE that a player he spent a lot of time calling "anti-town" and "scum" and analysing would not be worth lynching VE, you need to respond to this. Why are you so quickly dumping your own reads? | ||
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DoctorHelvetica
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On February 23 2012 06:22 Toadesstern wrote: Ok those 3 posts worry me A LOT right now. Anyone got the same feeling? It's like I'm playing with Coagulation all over again. They're obnoxious but this kind of playstyle is hard to get any read from other than "annoying". The only thing that worries me is that BH seemingly hasn't contributed a single original thought or point despite posting prolifically. | ||
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DoctorHelvetica
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On February 23 2012 06:25 prplhz wrote: I agree with Toadesstern and Jackal58 on Blazinghand. Thanks for letting us know | ||
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DoctorHelvetica
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prplhz have you posted anything that isn't so lukewarm? I see that you're posting but I feel like if all your posts were deleted, the thread would be exactly the same. | ||
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On February 23 2012 06:30 Blazinghand wrote: Hm that's a good point. IT could be a function of WHEN your wagon started though right It's a shit point. The best defense is being behind in votes. It's unnecessary for anyone to hard defend scum BC unless he gets 1-2 behind. | ||
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DoctorHelvetica
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On February 23 2012 06:33 Blazinghand wrote: wouldn't it be unneccessary... until he gets ahead? That depends on your preference as scum. I would gun it a little bit early to avoid the inevitable "he changed his vote as soon as BC started winning" thing if I'm scum. It could be a little bit behind, tied, ahead, it doesn't really matter. redFF winning would be all the defense BC needs. | ||
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DoctorHelvetica
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I have a case to push but I won't do it until the end of the night unless there is significant time left. The vote ends today right? Few hours? | ||
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DoctorHelvetica
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I'm pretty sure prplhz is scum and I'll make my case on him tonight in case I die. RedFF seems likely as well, but we'll see when the flip happens. BC has responded fairly well to the pressure as far as explaining himself in my opinion, all that's lacking is for him to make some positive play or follow through with his criticisms by scumhunting on the second day. | ||
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On February 23 2012 06:54 risk.nuke wrote: God dammit don't lynch a person who claimed tracker day 1. If you have ANY brains. He claimed tracker powers day 1 and hasn't played since then, he didn't claim a named role though which is extremely odd since it's allowed. | ||
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DoctorHelvetica
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On February 23 2012 06:52 kitaman27 wrote: No need to call people worthless in games you haven't played. It isn't the first time you've done it and it isn't constructive. I haven't been completely absent in this game, I've had classes for the last 7 hours. Are you questioning whether red could be scum, just not from the same scum faction as yours? Because that's sure is a strange question to ask from a town perspective. Jackal has a really poor filter and I think we should consider him tomorrow. mmk, so now rather than a separate scum faction, he might be third party? Scummy conclusion to make. blazing has moved his vote around plenty of times on the first day, which is a heuristic that generally points town. He can live. The biggest thing about BC is his view of red. He goes from having a null/"bad" read on red to voting him based on the claim. What I'm wondering is if redff plans to save himself with his vote. Catching up on the posts that were made since typing this up, then I'll make my decision. (yay for last minute swings) Why is that scummy? It's a completely valid point, in fact the signup post even implies there is a third party. You're ignoring the posting behavior accompanying BH's constant vote switches which is the actually worrying characteristic of his play. I don't think anyone is really voting for him because he changed his vote too much. Thirdly, that is the one part of BC's defense and posts that is actually logically very clear. He says he lacks the confidence to differentiate between scum and bad town and that redFF is either/or. The defensive and badly done claim would be the thing that had set him over the edge into believe he is scum if I'm not misunderstanding him. That's pretty clear. Are you not keeping up with things? | ||
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DoctorHelvetica
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On February 23 2012 06:56 Blazinghand wrote: And this is weirder than BC's weirdness? If he were a mafia tracker role or third party tracker role, it's safer to just claim what you know "your power" and not the name of the role which could be counterclaimed more easily. A scum backed up against a corner might avoid telling more lies than necessary as well. | ||
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DoctorHelvetica
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I don't think my posts are wishy washy. I wasn't yelling in the thread for one person to get lynched over any other, but that can't really be defined as wishy washiness. I wasn't planning on rebutting the case on redFF because I never ever thought it needed to be rebutted. I voted for redFF in the end. I moved my vote to BC to put pressure on him and make sure he stays active in the thread, his responses satisfied me enough that I wanted to stick with my original convictions and give BC Day 2 to prove himself. Needless to say I'll be keeping a close eye on him. Calling BC the alternative lynch is a non-point since his flip, or lack thereof, was inconclusive. You don't know whether or not he is scum, unless you are scum, so implying that it is a defensive alternative makes no sense as town especially considering redFF is the person I voted for. I never called RedFF not scum. I never called him 100% scum. I said very clearly RedFF is likely scum or terrible town but his claim is poorly done and seems defensive. I was more than okay with the RedFF lynch, which seemed so likely to go through at the time I switched to BC to pressure another player I was suspicious of. Seeing as RedFF has been AWOL during this entire period, I feel I made the right choice. If I didn't think RedFF was very suspect, I would have been far more vocal in trying to get people to join a BC bandwagon but you will notice I did no such thing as far as I can recall anyway. That's as much as I'll say in the interest of defending myself. This redFF "flip", or whatever it is, is inconclusive and I don't feel it necessary to comment on it further. I'll read filters when I have the time. | ||
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DoctorHelvetica
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BC was the second lynch but when you use the word 'alternative' are you trying to imply that I was defending red by voting for BC? That I was doing the exact scum plan that I explained in my post? Why does it even matter if BC was the second bandwagon, that implies nothing about my alignment and has absolutely nothing to do with the original point I was making which was only about why scum would not need to act majorly defensive about RedFF or outwardly "resist" the bandwagon. I'm also not disagreeing that BC is the "alternate lynch", and I didn't say that. I said it was a nonpoint. It is the alternative lynch but it doesn't matter and gives you no information about my alignment. You're trying to make it look like I contradicted myself in this post: "The wagon formed too fast" is not really an adequate rebuttal to the entire case that redFF is scum. I doubt he will come to defend himself, hasn't he ragequit the game because WBG called him bad? I'd expect there is resistance, but if scum plays that badly town can overwhelm the mafia resistance and in this case if I'm scum I'd be looking for an alternative lynch to push. when I did not. I don't need you to tell me how the votes happened, I'm aware of it and it doesn't help anybody. The fact that I second guess myself a lot might make me seem aloof. I'm just not going to call people stupid and spam worthless one-liners like "youre scum" over and over again. Usually I post a lot and it's very clear how my mind changes from thought to thought and is demonstrated throughout my posts (see: insane mafia 1, salem mafia) but I'm not gonna clutter up the thread this time. I told myself I wouldn't spam in Arkham City and that's exactly what I did. Do you have any other criticisms | ||
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DoctorHelvetica
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If your argument is that I'm scum for responding to your criticism at all then I implore you to learn better scumhunting strategies. I don't even understand how you reached the conclusion that I have some knowledge other people don't about redFF so I'm going to ignore that and assume it's just stupid. | ||
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DoctorHelvetica
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On February 23 2012 10:10 VisceraEyes wrote: DocH I am disappoint. I subscribed to your newsletter and everything. Why u switch off BC? WWHHHYYYYYYYY?!?!!?  Why do you care, if you are so certain of his alignment it doesn't matter at all what I do or think. Think for yourself and stop sheeping me. | ||
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On February 23 2012 10:11 VisceraEyes wrote: What in particular did you like about his defense? The fact that he didn't give any reads or the fact that the majority of it was calling everyone voting him stupid? I think he was justified in not having a strong read on Day 1 and I remembered playing with him in the TF2 game where he had similar behavior on the first day. He didn't do anything to make me think he is town. He did justify his lack of contribution and attitude enough for me to think lynching Red today was the better choice. My full read on BC depends on what he brings to the table on the second day. If it's nothing, string him up. | ||
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DoctorHelvetica
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On February 23 2012 10:10 VisceraEyes wrote: DocH I am disappoint. I subscribed to your newsletter and everything. Why u switch off BC? WWHHHYYYYYYYY?!?!!? Makes it seem like you are more disappointed that you're not in the same boat with me rather than the actual lynch result. If you are independent and don't care so much about what I think then prove it over the next day instead of getting offended. | ||
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DoctorHelvetica
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He didn't do anything to make me think he is town. Do you fault him for not being the one who came up with the RedFF bandwagon? What is he supposed to say about it? He's been negative and critical and unhelpful and I don't like it at all. I'm not removing suspicion from BloodyC0bbler. He justified a couple of things (his lack of assurance, understandable on day 1) enough for me to move my vote for today and see what he brings to the table tomorrow. It's really that simple. I expect BC to be helpful and do more work and less complaining. I'm not by any means letting him off the hook. I even told him straight up that he needs to put up or die come Day 2. | ||
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Maybe his being "missing" is part of the reason he hasn't posted for the latter half of the day. | ||
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DoctorHelvetica
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Why are we assuming that it's a scumpower that just hide flips? "Missing Day 1" this wording is very deliberate and leads me to believe that RedFF is not lynched or dead at all. Don't make such serious assumptions. An unlynchable scum or a lynch dodging power seems like a bit much but since none of us (except perhaps the scumteam or a town/3rd party power role that did this) know exactly what happened so speculating on it is inconclusive and useless. and some other reasons Such as? I think it's weird that scum didn't just pile onto a town BloodyC0bbler though This is WIFOM just like your first point. The scum plan could be any number of things and it's more conducive to figure out who is scum rather than which one of many many plans/voting patterns/buses/etc. could scum be enacting or not. The recently ended Arkham City was a great example, I think, of scum distancing themselves pretty well from each other and in that game Sheth almost got lynched Day 1 and there wasn't really hard resistance from the scumteam at all. | ||
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DoctorHelvetica
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On February 24 2012 04:24 Palmar wrote: Just to clarify, redFF is for all intents and purposes dead Is this a no flip game or is that something you can't tell us? | ||
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RoL Has been inactive and fairly unhelpful and I know he is a great scumhunter. His vote for RedFF was justified only by the fact that he claimed tracker On February 23 2012 03:04 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote: just to confuse people. Mafia is not a game played by machines that make the most efficient decisions You just got bumped up a few priorities on my scum list congrats, you are now neck and neck with BC. Do you really find it likely that the top 2 bandwagons of last night were both scum? A lot of your posts in the filter are basically a complicated way of saying we need to lynch for information something that you yourself know is bad. You also said you were fine with killing BC despite claiming to not be able to read his filter well and never making a case (just saying you agree with syllo) then later putting him high up on your list with no explanations or pressure. This isn't the town RoL I'm aware of. I'm more concerned by what you didn't do. I know RoL to jump on wishy washy players, fake pro-town attitudes, and various other kinds of bullshit but you did nothing of the sort. Your case on redFF was basically "lynch him for claiming" and you never pointed out any scummy actions beyond vague agreeances with other players. Saying something to the air of "other people realized he was scummy for other stuff too so..." is not taking ownership of your own scumhunting. In fact you didn't do shit. And if whatever blocked RedFF is a scum power it makes sense scum would want him to be the target. If you can point me to another game where you pushed someone to be lynched just for claiming and were town I'd like to read that. Some of the rest of us saw scummy behavior on top of it and elaborated on that, something you didn't do so please don't turn around and say me or anyone else is scum cause we voted for red too. On February 23 2012 11:52 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote: It's going to be interesting to examine the last few hours of todays lynch since it seemed to generate a bunch of activity. I think its safe to say whatever happened with the lynch to where we don't know what happened with RedFF whether or not he is dead or why he didn't flip doesn't benefit us and is probably a result of mafia intervention or the third party. I can't see any townie doing that or possessing a power like that since it is purely a detriment to us to ever use it. Empty worthless post. You don't need to announce what you're gonna do. Surprised you didn't use this time to jump on BC or me or any of the other people you FoS'd with zero reasoning on the first day. ___________________ Dirkzor RoL seems fine to lynch but a bit to easy. Unlike BH? On February 22 2012 06:01 Dirkzor wrote: @Chaoser now you're just argueing semantics... I called what Kita did double sided. I called what you did flip floppy. Basicly the same thing. And how can you compare my posts that was done 5-15 in into the game with someone made 12 hours later? You say that I don't take side. That is correct because I found both sides stupid and none of them particularly more scummy then then other. You called what chaoser did lying. Read the post before this one in Dirkzor's filter: On February 22 2012 05:56 Dirkzor wrote: I want to continue on Toad's case on Chaoser. Because Chaoser is lying! Read the whole case and chaoser defence here. Below is the end of that post. So it was AFTER you realized you had misread that you changed your vote? Not quite. + Show Spoiler + On February 21 2012 08:56 chaoser wrote: VE said he was voting for red as a policy lynch. He then criticizes red, not for his one liners, but by saying: That is a direct criticism of red's policy lynch push on tyrran. I never said that he accused redFF of being scum for supporting a PL, I'm only saying that he's criticizing redFF of doing something that he himself did as well (Putting votes on a policy lynch). That point is factual. At the same time, I understand the nuanced subtle difference between the two given VE's immediate switch from policy lynch to scum-read. That's just good pressure play. Either way, I want to clarify what actually happened so as to not misrepresent the situation. lol, this is scummy as fuck. ##vote: redFF In that post you are still arguing with VE/DrH about whether or not VE was being a hypocrite or not. Also in that post you vote for RedFF. Next post: You seems to have changed your mind about RedFF here. Next: This is were you realize something is wrong and you quoted the wrong dude. Some few post later: Now that the mixup have been cleared VE is suddenly a player doing good. While I admit that its not a huge issue I don't understand why you would lie about it? Why not just "I thought VE was being a hypocrite but then RedFF's posting turned to shit so I voted him. Later i realized I was wrong and VE was right." You didn't call him flip flopping. You used a strong word, lying, then backed off later. I don't see what is scummy about Chaoser misreading something and then making a posting mistake because of it. That seems more town to me than anything unless he is doing some incredibly complicated roleplay where he pretends to be unaware of what's going on and play badly. I've known Chaoser to be inactive and absentminded as town before so I'm not really shocked or upset by this, I don't think anyone really should be. Dirkzor spent the remainder of his filter tunneling BH, who is probably the easiest lynch I've ever seen. He's acting like a really bad village idiot or some kind of serial killer who is just trolling to draw people out. He is definitely worth a DT or a Vig. Dirk can tunnel BH as hard as he wants and whatever BH flips doesn't matter. If he flips town everyone will agree that BH was playing really bad and would have gotten lynched or shot anyway. If he flips scum then Dirk gets some town cred. If he flips third party of some sort then Dirk gets a little bit of town cred. He can say "I was close, at least we got the SK out of the way now, it could have been worse it could have been town". Dirkzor plays very wishy washy and conservative until Kitaman27 calls him out for it. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=303505&user=193595 The posts in this filter in which he is a town blue come across as far more natural, reactive, and there is clear progress in his thoughts. He doesn't ignore anybody and is pretty talkative. His posts in the Storm Mafia filter come across to me as more jilted and planned? I'm surprised he didn't call BH out on his behavior a bit before, he seems like the kind of player to try and foster a good pro-town atmosphere which he hasn't done in this game at all. Read Kitaman27's post on him for more analysis of his early game behavior: On February 22 2012 12:23 kitaman27 wrote: Dang it, I'm a sucker for blue claims. Funny to see the votes pile up on red after the claim, rather than before. On one hand, a mafia player who is set to die should always be claiming blue, but on the other, his claim ties up a potential roleblocker. Tracker is a tricky claim because even confirming it doesn't necessarily mean he isn't a mafia stalker or something. I'll be keeping my vote on him for the moment. Now to everyone else: I've enjoyed comedy hour with Jackal, but his filter is completely void of content. Not a single post showing he isn't just along for the ride. Toad appears to be going through post-Arkham depression or something. A lot of fluff and he isn't very willing to share his reads. These two statements by prpl completely contradict each other. You argue how you don't think red is scum, but you're willing to vote him to avoid no lynch? How does that make sense? If you're going to argue that he really is blue, then of course a no lynch would be more beneficial. How about push a different lynch if red isn't your priority? This is really poor from him. I know I already picked on Dirkzor for his language, but I'm going to do it again. "Hey guys. Look at me and my protown attitude!" Only scum say this. Lack of aggression and confidence. These are fair points. I wish Kitaman was more active but I don't remember him having a strong presence in the last game where he was town. I agree with the things he is saying here, this is the sort of thing I'm used to seeing from RoL. _____________ VisceraEyes The most obvious choice imo. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=313426&user=117978 I looked far back to find a game with VE as town and did. Responsibility Mafia. I noticed something that immediately stuck out to me as a scum player trying to imitate his own town meta. In RM VisceraEyes makes catchy posts when he calls out a scum. He will bold/color his posts, say it's some kind of special list, etc. In RM he is focused. He calls out one scum and backs his case up. It's not a fluff post. It's not a summary. This town VE doesn't bother with that kind of stuff. Scum VE in Arkham City posts similar lists, but instead of filling it with substance and focus he does this: On February 10 2012 07:42 VisceraEyes wrote: VisceraEyes Lynch List of Correctitude v2.0 Liquid`Sheth - His return to the thread from the busy days past has been less than impressive, to say the very least. He's only interested in saving his own life, not in finding and eliminating threats to town. As such, it pleases me greatly to see that he's (at least for now) our choice for lynch. Opz - A lurker - and a site-veteran lurker. He's on Jackal's list of phone-network buddies, but I haven't seen much in the way of finding scum from Opz. Every passing hour that he hasn't done shit in the thread is another reason we should hang this guy. hiro protagonist - This one's silence has now reached a deafening cacophony of scumminess to me. He's not looking for scum...or if he is, he's not sharing with the class. This one is tomorrow's lynch if he lives through the night (I hope he doesn't.) Kurumi - WBG entered today with an INSTANTANEOUS vote for Kurumi. Now, he hasn't claimed any kind of DT role or anything, but being a semi veteran of the site and a decent player, that's not surprising. But it's the kind of behavior I'd expect from a DT with a red check. I'll be looking into Kurumi in much greater detail, but for now he's on my lynch-list. VisceraEyes Watch-List of Vigilance Katina - Downgraded from my lynch-list for being constantly on my Sheth lynch unwaveringly. If she were a scumbuddy, I'd have expected at least a little resistance yesterday when I was pushing or at the very least today. However, something about her screams 'doing-bare-minimum-to-avoid-lynch'. I'm watching Katina like a hawk. Palmar - Again, unwaveringly on my Sheth lynch. Palmar has the honor of being the village idiot this game however, and that's not the kind of behavior I'm used to seeing from townPalmar post-D1. I have no idea what kind of game Palmar is playing, but I'm watching Palmar like a hawk. I actually hope he keeps trolling and we lynch him...but I'm not sold on him being scum. Third however? Dunno....EVER VIGILANT!!!! A long list of players with basic summaries of what may or may not make them suspicious is fucking USELESS. It's not a case, it doesn't start a bandwagon, it doesn't get you anywhere closer to lynching scum, it shows a lack of effort in picking one and making a convincing argument (because you can't) it shows a lack of focus and it seems to me you are just trying to imitate a similar style of play. But the substance is different. He argues with redFF but doesn't make a post summizing his case, making his points clearly in one spot. Instead he chooses to fill those "list" or whatever posts with more useless filler. On February 22 2012 18:56 VisceraEyes wrote: VisceraEyes Lynch List of Storm's End BloodyC0bbler - My complaints echo the complaints of players such as DocH and Syllogism...he's had plenty of opportunity to come look for scum - he hasn't. He placed a vote on redFF without saying whether he thought he was scum or not. I was less than satisfied with his responses to my posts, and I've been unimpressed with his effort so far in the game. I voted for this guy in L, and while I was herpin and a derpin, he was finding scum and establishing his innocence. wherebugsgo - WBG has similarly not been interested in finding scum. He called chaoser scum lightly at the beginning of the day, but it looked more like an excuse to get into a conversation with him than anything. This is directly after he just got done buddying him in his introduction post.  Followed up with calling redFF bad ad nauseum. Very clear to not say scum - only very bad. Suddenly this all changes after red sheeps after Jackal? Sheeping is something scum and town do in equal parts - verily, many a veteran townies count on a few sheep to push their agendas. Claims that most of what red has done can be explained 'with scum motivations'. Fails to elaborate or support this idea. Just throws it out there.RebirthOfLegenD - my weakest read - I'm really only interested in showing RoL rope if he doesn't start looking for scum. This redFF wagon essentially pushed itself, and he's making it his MISSION to make it happen. I don't even know if RoL thinks red is scum or not. But it's pretty clear that he wants red to die. TODAY. I can support a lynch of any of these three players, my preference is WBG, followed by BC, with RoL being my least favorite choice. Useless summary. A lynch list is retarded it just makes you look like town. You can really just sum up other peoples arguments too, reword them a little, boom you look like you're helping. On February 22 2012 14:56 VisceraEyes wrote: DocH I'm intrigued by your ideas and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter. You don't need to announce that you agree with me if you're town. Just expand on my ideas or push them too. On February 23 2012 12:46 VisceraEyes wrote: FUCK Jackal - I'd had myself convinced it was Thursday all day - your appearance in the thread has reminded me that it's not. X( Well, while you're here (smashing all my dreams), how about you help me out with something. Can YOU explain what is townie about BC's behavior/defenses that had everyone unwilling to lynch him? I'm not seeing it. All I see are a few angrily and hastily thrown together posts which doesn't really much indicate town to me, although it does indicate null as fuck to me which taken with his behavior the rest of the day seems incriminating enough.... You seem uncertain and wishy washy about BC but at the same time very very upset he wasn't lynched? Why is that? If you're town you only have reason to be disappointed that he wasn't lynched if you are pretty proof-positive he is scum, especially with a player of BC's potential. The early game behavior I'm not too awfully alarmed by other than your friendly attitude. You are giving out compliments and buddying up with people a lot which isn't something I see a lot of town players take the effort to do. Doubtlessly, you've learned a bit from Arkham City. However, the early game behavior doesn't jump off the page as helpful pro-town shit either and your behavior after the flip is very concerning: very defensive and overreacting to the situation. I really doubt I'm 3/3 here but I try not to think too much about the scum team as I do about individual scum. When I think about the scum team I worry too much about if they would bus, are arguments fake, etc. etc. etc. and I go insane. It's much easier to just analyze people as individuals and determine whether or not I find them to be scummy. | ||
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DoctorHelvetica
United States15034 Posts
If I'm scum put me in the ground | ||
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On February 24 2012 05:38 wherebugsgo wrote: Are you claiming scum right now? is that really your response | ||
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On February 24 2012 05:41 wherebugsgo wrote: I can't actually see any reason for anyone of any alignment to ever say what you just said. Anyway, need to know basis. I have no vested interest in answering any questions ATM. I'm asking why if you are so sure I am scum did you stop pressuring me. If my responses was unsatisfactory I don't see why you would drop all pressure on me without saying anything. "If I'm scum put me in the ground" is figurative language, if you couldn't figure that out. If you think I'm red, then why are you holding back? It seems wishy washy, unless you're just waiting for the day or something I don't know. | ||
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On February 24 2012 05:45 wherebugsgo wrote: I find it funny that you're still concerned about my pressure. Does it bother you that you have no idea what I'm thinking? I would find it strange if anybody suddenly relented pressure/a case on somebody. I don't really care what you think and I'm not super interested in defending myself either, I just fail to see how a town player is justified in dropping a case on somebody they seem fairly certain of. This need to know thing is the same shit you were spewing in Arkham to avoid giving town information and make other people look scummy. Not to mention how amazingly wishy washy and tepid you were on Day 1 concerning RedFF. You know the same thing you called me scum for? The only reason I'm not pushing you now is because I keep second guessing myself like crazy going through your filter and I just didn't have the time to look back into your game history since I was getting ready to leave, which I'm doing as soon as this post is posted. Off to the beach. | ||
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On February 24 2012 05:49 wherebugsgo wrote: I find it funny that you're talking for him. Are you his scumbuddy by chance? @syllo same thing I said to Dr. H. It's actually really obvious unless you're stupid and take everything literally | ||
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Check his filter here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=313426&user=60039 You will notice the majority of the first page is spent calling other players bad. He spends many many many long posts describing RedFF's meta, calling him a bad player, only to come to the conclusion that this means RedFF is unreadable and thus not worth really lynching. The page ends with some of the most wishy washy play I've ever seen. The problem with redFF is, how do you tell? I suppose we could just lynch him anyway, but then we aren't really lynching someone we surely think is scum. At that point we're just lynching to punish bad play. While I'm not opposed to lynching people who play badly in this game, I think we can look into finding scum in people who are easier to read than redFF. Reading players who are generally detrimental when they play town has never been my strong suit. We can lynch RedFF, but it's probably not good, but then again I'm not really opposed to it but let's try something else If the missing/no-flip/whatever it is thing is indeed a scum power, I don't think scum would unanimously support that lynch, or any lynch in the game for that matter really. On February 21 2012 14:36 wherebugsgo wrote: you're still wrong, but whatever. My contention is that I have no clue what redFF's alignment is because he's capable of being like this regardless. Thus, he very well could be town, yes. Whether he is or not at this point I have no idea. A lynch on someone like that is purely an information lynch (although it would take a detrimental player out, that's true) I am not insinuating that he is town nor scum because I honestly don't know (and for now, don't care.) if I were a vig and I had no better choice I'd definitely shoot him, though. However I'm certain better choices will appear today. I will flush them out of their caves if they are hiding. I find this post quite amusing considering WBG has called me scum for having "no backbone" and not making a super strong scum read on Day 1. Apply your own logic to your own play please. but makes it apparent that redFF never really had a case on Toad to begin with. It certainly seemed like he just said "I think Toad is scum" to get heat off himself. While chaoser has done scummy things, this is scummier than anything chaoser has done. I doubt scum redFF would publically announce "good job i took your bait" but it is a suspect post nonetheless. WBG seems more interested in upsetting me and keeping me flustered than making a real case. This is literally the exact strategy scum devised to deal with me in Arkham City where he was scum. Radfield knew I would be a threat if somebody didn't distract/harass me because to be honest as town I am horrible under pressure and a threat otherwise. Huge reason I'm trying to slow down and keep it cool this game. Posting so much in Arkham City kept me out of the loop and distracted more than anything and I performed terribly in that game past maybe the first half of the first day. Quotes from the AC scum QT: "JJ, if you want to go after DocH, please do. Timezones aren't that important, and neither is getting into direct arguments... motivation is  . The important thing is that post you think he is scum(and why), and try to convince others. He needs to be spending his time defending himself, and not spending his time digging around. DocH is very strong if you let him run freely." "One of us becomes the DocH harasser. They push him from the get go, and ideally even argue with him." "DocH is extremely solid if you let him get his feet under him, so we need to rattle him and keep him rattled. I think one of our team members goals should be to keep DocH off balance and call him scum at every turn" (all from radfield directing the other mafia) This "pressure" you're putting on me is bullshit. I'm asking simple questions (something that you seem to have no problem doing) and you're making it out to seem that I'm really upset and defensive. If, in fact, WBG is scum this does absolutely nothing to clear VE or RoL. In the AC quicktopic you can see WBG and others calling out and criticizing VE's play and he'd make kind of the ideal target for a bus. It is what it is. I'll be reading more closely to determine where my first vote will go. I'm torn between RoL, WBG, and Dirkzor and really need to see how VisceraEyes and BloodyC0bbler play today. I hope you have a real response instead of some stupid ass one liner like "you scum bro" or "wow haha so defensive you're scum" while you wait for your team to help you formulate a real response | ||
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DoctorHelvetica
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See: Palmar in Arkham City | ||
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On February 24 2012 07:58 VisceraEyes wrote: Doc that this doesn't have to be a conspiracy thing - this is WBG's strategy regardless of his alignment as far as I'm aware - get someone flustered, see if they slip up (town)/call their reactions scummy (scum). However, taken with the rest of his play, I agree with you that he's probably scum trying to fluster you this game. Radfield was leading scum unlike I've seen a vet lead a scumteam before, and I've been on a few scumteams here. I probably wouldn't take those quotes to be 'general scum strategy' here...although, I haven't played with you enough to know if you're REALLY that dangerous or not. I'm aware I haven't responded to your case against me - I'll get around to it. Please keep that in mind regardless of what you perceive my alignment to be...sound observation is sound. I find all the mafia then second guess myself into oblivion and change all my reads to the wrong ones usually The first half of this case is more important than the second which is a meta explanation of his behavior and thus less reliable | ||
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On February 24 2012 10:18 prplhz wrote: BloodyC0bbler's latest post itself is a lot more interesting than the case on him. I think his accusations on risk.nuke are good too but I'm on RebirthOfLeGenD right now. nobody cares, stop announcing things that are utterly worthless | ||
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If BH is mafia I don't understand what his intention is. A mafia player has a team advising them on what to do. I can discern no real intentions from him, I get a neutral read. VE stop announcing how kick ass your case is gonna be and just post it. | ||
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confident when you think you might be going somewhere and you back down instantly under any pressure "I think you're scum " then you unvote? What the hell are you doing? | ||
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On February 24 2012 14:06 prplhz wrote: wow i'm not terrible all the time i .. i don't know what to say... i need a moment .. tearing up here Anyway, can you tell me why BloodyC0bbler hasn't been playing like scum? I'm just curious here because I think he has but I'm pretty sure you have a better read on him than I do. Like, just some main points, doesn't have to be a huge case. Help a noob out. Why don't you say why he is instead of worrying so much about what other people think. Are you afraid of something? | ||
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I never even read Doctor H's case on you, because quite honestly I stopped paying attention to Dr. H after I stopped pressuring him at the end of the night phase. I'm not very sure on his alignment and many of the things he said recently (particularly what he pointed out about RoL's stance on BC and his agreement with me about VE) make sense. Doesn't this imply the opposite? I don't like that you brought up LotR mafia either. That isn't any good reason to say I'm 100% scum if you die. Especially if we are both town, scum now has a higher incentive to hit you just to push my lynch. You tunneled me pretty hard in that game if i recall barely since I quit after the first Day. ________________ I'll likely be voting for VE or RoL this day though. VE you act so damn arrogant and then when it comes time for you to actually make your statements you're getting picked apart, lose confidence, and back away. You want to call WBG scum but you don't want to commit to the vote. Why not? Why would you change your vote to BH the person that your #1 scumread is bandwagoning? Why would you assume WBG is just scum giving you BH to survive? He is certainly capable of arguing against you and any bandwagon that would exist on WBG has zero traction at the time being, this is the only reason I could think of for switching your vote. The fact that you're being so dramatic in this game leads me to believe you're putting on an act. All the UGH's and NOOO's and emoticons and all this shit, I might take another look through your responsibility filter but it seems you were pretty on point by then. It seems like you're trying to please everybody and lay suspicion at the same time, I guess. That's the best way I can put it. | ||
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If I'm town you've just given scum a reason to kill you now, in a sense. When you say you're not paying attention to me when you're done pressuring it sounds worrying. This sounds like "My bandwagon didn't go anywhere so I moved on." If you really thought I was scum or had suspicion there's no reason to stop paying attention. If you are scum looking for a fake bandwagon to start that sort of reasoning makes a lot of sense. If you can't keep up pressure without drawing heat on yourself then you have no real reason to take an interest in what I'm doing. I'm being very nitpicky but I want to be careful, carelessness in AC and other games has caused me to drop a lot of very good reads and miss details. I feel it's likely you just worded that badly but I'm not sold on you. And what's so doubtful about his presence in this game? It's not much unlike his presence in AC really, it makes sense he would be posting more this time around. I pointed out what I saw as the differences in his metagame. If that is holding you back I suggest you go back to my post on RoL/Dirk/VE and read that part. | ||
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On February 24 2012 14:43 prplhz wrote: So, why didn't his wagon pick up steam? You are saying that regardless of redFF's alignment, BloodyC0bbler would be a better lynch for scum unless he was scum. Furthermore, scum could avoid a huge deal of the fallout from a BloodyC0bbler mislynch by hiding the flip as it appears that they did. Your defense of BloodyC0bbler is primarily based on meta, something that the bulk of players in this game does not have. Do you think that Blazinghand is a scum who tried to get a town BloodyC0bbler lynched? He switched from redFF to BloodyC0bbler on shitty out-of-character reasonable at a crucial moment. It picked up enough steam that it was within like 1-2 votes until I changed right? It's not like scum can 100% decide a lynch anyway, the way your post is phrased makes it sound like mafia just choose whoever gets lynched every time. | ||
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what purpose would a "lynch list" ever serve a town player to post in a million years i'm trying to think of things more useless and i'm not coming up with much | ||
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On February 24 2012 14:54 prplhz wrote: Because I'm bad. I remember you pointed this exact same thing out in Responsibility Mafia! too. While the meta is available to everybody, not everybody has it readily available to them in their memory. You don't seriously expect everybody to go read everybody else's old games when they join a game? Only a few people do that. My point is that it's a pretty valid excuse "BloodyC0bbler looks scum, and I didn't have the meta that would allow me to see that he often just looks scum as town". I'm surprised not any more scum switched to him. While you're right that the BloodyC0bbler train picked up more steam, I don't think syllogism is scum, I think DoctorHelvetica is actually putting a ton of effort into this game, I'm not very scum, VisceraEyes looks pretty town to me. That leaves risk.nuke and Blazinghand to get the votes to 6 which BloodyC0bbler had at his wagon's highest point, also making these two scum. I've already said they both look bad and I'd be up for lynching either of them today. Sounds kinda slippy He really was almost lynched. If it weren't for people yelling about BH and me switching my vote BC could well have won. How do you know scum didn't pile onto BC? There are likely, what 4 or 5 mafia in this game? You think they're all going to vote unanimously for the same person? You think every single one of them was available to change their vote an hour or two before the deadline? Do you know something we don't? You have, as town, no way of knowing off the bat who voted for who especially since there wasn't even a flip it's difficult to even speculate on. The bandwagon definitely gained steam a lot of steam, good job ditching your original point (the one that brought you to the conclusion that BC is scum) but not the conclusion that came off of it. Just because BC wasn't lynched does not mean he is town. How does VE look town to you? | ||
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On February 24 2012 15:17 prplhz wrote: Hey DoctorHelvetica Do you want to say something? You're like constantly on my back. Yesterday you promised an analysis on me and said I should be lynched today. Instead you made analysis on 4 other players. You're still on my back all the time for "slippy" shit that really looks like you're grasping stuff out of the thin air. Do you want to say something? wherebugsgo just said that there are only 4 scum which is totally true, no matter the factors making a BloodyC0bbler mislynch easier (the case on BloodyC0bbler should look alright for people who don't have meta with BloodyC0bbler, the hidden flip). Blazinghand and risk.nuke as scum, maybe you but you're putting a ton of effort in this game, looks plausible and that would be 2 scum and that's a huge deal, I kinda realize that now. I have played like 50 games with VisceraEyes and he's always one of the players I take notice of because we joined this sub forum at the same time. Last time he was scum in Hammer Mini Mafia I took notice of it, same with XLVIII. He has a somewhat bad habit of claiming scum when he's scum and I didn't see that yet. He's talking to everybody and being hugely transparent and active and that's not only objectively townie, it's also his town meta. I looked through your filter and didn't find it as suspicious as I had expected based on a couple of your posts that tipped me off later in the day. I'm hardly constantly on your back, I've been pressuring you for all of what two or three posts now? Defensive and paranoid much? Scum shit right there. I have no idea what you're saying in this paragraph. I want to understand it but I don't. Where are you getting the idea that exactly 2 scum must have voted for BC? Is that even what you're saying? It's probable that scum spread their votes out to some degree but I don't know exactly how they did it or even why and there wasn't even a flip on the first day. If you can explain clearly your point about the Day 1 votes and what information you seem to think it gives you then I'd like that. It's difficult when I can't even comprehend what you are writing. | ||
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On February 24 2012 15:19 VisceraEyes wrote: The lynch list serves to let town know who I'm willing to lynch. I changed my mind on RoL, but my vote was ultimately on BC. Where are you going with this? Seems scummy to me. Absolutely useless fluff, makes you look kinda pro-town while you run around asking questions and poking/prodding people without ever making serious commitments and cases. You format some of your trash pretty nicely though, maybe later you'll do that with some real content or a case ? | ||
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On February 24 2012 15:23 VisceraEyes wrote: You know, you come off as a hell of a lot more arrogant than I do. Why did you even include that in your post? If you think I'm not making any sense say so, but I'm in agreement with you on a lot of things, so whatever sir. If you want to vote for me, do it. I'm voting for who I think is scum. You're posting a shitton and aren't reading closely enough to know what I've said about BH when I said it many times and you wrote me off and just asked this dumb question instead of making a real response right away I never told you who or what to vote for so I don't even know what this post is trying to do it's just whiny | ||
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Anyway, I misunderstood your posting. The way you type makes it very difficult for me to understand your actual point. Another reason I'm just pressuring you now because I'm not even like 50% sure what you're saying in all of your posts anyway. I thought you were saying this: BC is scum because if he were town he would have been lynched. When you appear to now be saying: I think BC is town so there are definitely scum who would have voted for him and 2 seems reasonable. | ||
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On February 24 2012 15:43 prplhz wrote: Well, I'm glad we sorted that out. I always thought I was alright at expressing myself but everybody keeps calling me convoluted in this game so I was probably dead wrong about that. It can be hard to make yourself easily understood in a foreign language, please bear with me. Yeah. Try separating your posts a little more or restating your main point. Sometimes it gets lost in the larger context of what you're saying. It's just difficult to follow your train of thought. On February 24 2012 15:42 VisceraEyes wrote: You're just being a jerk to everyone you encounter. I'm done responding to you Doc. Good luck with your VE wagon. I'm sure it's going to bring you lots of success in this game. I really don't know why you are so upset. Surely you've dealt with worse? Am I the only player to say something you've said was dumb, or called your posts useless, or whatever? You asked me a question I've already answered. I'm not interested in repeating myself as much as I am in pressuring you which you're just dodging. I'm really not trying to antagonize or flame you, but I just don't see why town VE would be this absent minded not to know my opinions on the person he's pushing when I've stated them multiple times and has been so far very interested in what I have to say. You could have just taken the hint and went through my filter to find it but you insist on complaining about my attitude and dodging pressure instead. This is bullshit play if you're town and does nothing to ease my suspicions that you are scum. If I see bad play or dumb posts I won't hesitate to call it what it is. If you can't handle the heat etc. | ||
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i was on the danger to mafia list. i just read it this morning. radfield was concerned enough about me that he had one of you guys work just to throw me off and i absorbed three hits. the danger to town list was jackal, bill murray, kenpachi, and others i dont remember. your conclusion is that BH is scum right? that's not the same conclusion as me. | ||
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Obviously it's scummy because of my interpretation of it. I'm not objectively correct so why even bother to make the point? Why don't you counter my argument? You're throwing vague doubt on this situation and furthermore trying to discredit me with a lie about AC lol | ||
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VE, how do you expect me to behave toward someone I believe is mafia? | ||
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On February 25 2012 03:54 VisceraEyes wrote: You don't have to be a dick. I think Blazinghand is mafia, do you see me repeatedly calling his posts worthless or shitty or whatever the fuck? No. Because I want Blazinghand to enjoy the game IN SPITE of being on the opposite team as him. But you know, I wouldn't expect you to think that way. Just leave me alone Doc. Your posts being fluffy and useless are part of my case. I don't care how upset it makes you. | ||
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prplhz voting for syllo? ugh i really don't wanna go through that filter again but why syllo over anyone else? you even said you thought BH and nuke were mafia so why not vote there? | ||
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Useless posting is absolutely indicative of alignment | ||
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On February 25 2012 04:39 layabout wrote: vote Blazinghand On balance he looks worse than VE. Today VE has put in some semblance of an effort to find scum, BH has done anything but. the funny thing is BH has actually done pretty much the same amount it's just kinda lost in the spam | ||
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if there is a third party, which i find likely, sk makes the most sense besides survivor or vi which i hate but it's still possible this may just be my tendency to stray away from anything too obvious. ex: coagulation in insane mafia | ||
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On February 25 2012 04:42 Blazinghand wrote: IF you want to find my useful posts, just skim my filter and look for posts longer than 1-2 lines, usually containing several quotes and spoilers. You'll find that I have actually done stuff other than 1-liners. that's my point you and VE both made a case tonight the difference being that VE's came right after i posted a case on WBG that i originally didn't even want to post because i felt like I was cluttering too much and he spent a lot of time announcing he was gonna do it first you actually look better in that case overall you are the most useless player in this thread and the one who is hurting town most | ||
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On February 25 2012 06:16 Jitsu wrote: Just got back for the day. Saw a few things that struck out at me. It seems a lot of this RoL train has to do with his meta of being inactive. I'm not entirely privy to this. That being said, he's another one that is basically sitting back and letting the town attack each other without doing anything groundbreaking to prove his innocence. He comes back after lurking, to post OMGUS reads, then peaces. I haven't read the entirety of his case on DrH yet, only saw that he had posted it, so I will go back and check that out. Dirkzor is floating somewhere between null and scum to me. I think part of it is confirmation bias, but since DrH has stated a lot of things the same as I have in my first case against him, I feel confident in my read. That, and I have received very little criticism about it, other then the fact that it was [defended?] by Dirkzor. Risk.nuke. Guy is giving me negative vibes, mannnn. Guy calls me out Day1 and says he would support my lynch. Doesn't give reasoning other then my Dirkzor case wasn't heartfelt. Laugh Out Loud. Lurks it the fuck up. Then he comes back, and either A) disregards my request to answer me about the above lynch support, or B) isn't reading the thread. To me, and to everyone else, he's acting anti-town. How has anything he has done supported town discussion or behavior? cool thanks for the summary of what is happening no one cares | ||
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On February 25 2012 08:23 Jitsu wrote: Except for the part where I said that i'm curious on my Dirkzor read, but you making a case against him affirms my position that I think he is playing scummy. And that Risk.Nuke needs to step it up, because he is giving me negative vibes. How is that saying "I have no real thoughts on these players?" Blazinghand starting to discredit me enough to make my thoughts invalid? Do you think i'm scum? That's very wishy washy "I don't know really what to think about it and had no confidence in my read but a town player seems to agree so I'm confident now" sounds like scum who is unsure about their agenda hoping for town support | ||
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On February 25 2012 09:06 Jitsu wrote: Or i'm not very confident in my scum-hunting ability, since I have only 4 games played total. Take you're pick. Also, you didn't answer my question. Do you think i'm mafia? Need to read your filter to determine if you're bad town or mafia. I think RoL and BH are at the present time. I need to read your whole filter and I don't want to get unfocused and post a million reads right now, shit sucks for town when there are like 5 bandwagons. | ||
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On February 25 2012 09:12 Jitsu wrote: And yet, my first scum read (Dirkzor) was later reinforced by DocH, who is now acting like a fool. Pretty funny if you ask me. How about you? Do you think i'm scum? I ask you, since DocH is obviously too afraid to say so one way or another. Acting like a fool? That's an interesting "criticism" to some light pressure. This is a pretty scummy reaction. If anyone looks afraid here, it isn't me. | ||
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On February 25 2012 10:58 VisceraEyes wrote: BC - is this DocH's normal play? It looks to me like he's pouring on the "Hey guys, watch me pressure these noobs!" a little thick... why are you so obsessed with me pressuring you? do you think that makes me scum or something, what would you like me to do instead? buddy up to you like you've been doing to people all game? | ||
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On February 25 2012 09:54 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote: I swear to god, I get this shit every time. I'm not bothering defending your accusation which is retarded. You were mad I didn't reiterate points against BC, yet if I did I would get accused of having no original analysis. It's fucks me either way in your analysis so don't try to pretend that was even an actual point. I have over 30 posts and I have other shit to do, I don't get it. Do I need to spam 24/7 from my phone to not be accused of inactivity? I could surely go WBG/BH style all over this game if you want. It is an actual point. Your whole reason for voting redFF was that he claimed and instead of coming out and explaining why he is scum you just focused on the immediate point which was that he made a claim which was not a helpful town play but if RedFF was indeed town it's very understandable that he would claim tracker. A lot of the points made against BC were points I made anyway. I just don't understand how you could be so lazy to not offer any explanation for who you thought was scum until you got called out by me. The first time you even bothered to push a lynch or make a case for why someone was scum was defensively. Being inactive is one thing but I think you're scum because of your posts primarily. | ||
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On February 25 2012 11:56 Toadesstern wrote: the sad part here is that I'm not getting out here alive no matter what's going to happen, because it's the very same situation we had in L d1 with Palmar. If BH flips town and I keep my vote off him everyone is going to rant about me "how does that noob have a better read than a fantastillion of our best vets?" If BH flips mafa and I keep my vote off him everyone is going to rant about me because I was "defending" him. If BH flips town and I vote him everyone is going to rant about me "how does that noob have a better read than a fantastillion of our best vets?" If BH flips mafia and I vote vote him everyone is going to rant about how I only voteswitched after I had to. Sad story, isn't it? However, I'm going to rethink this whole thing when I wake up tomorrow. Should be plenty of time. For now I'm sticking with RoL. You seem to care an awful lot about how town perceives you | ||
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On February 25 2012 12:08 Toadesstern wrote: yeah because believe or not, I don't want to be lynched no matter if I rolled mafia or town. Because in both scenarios being lynched is not helping my team. So what you're telling me is that you successfully figured out I'm not a VI? But that's of course wifom. I could totally be a VI trying to look pro-town to try and look like I don't want to be lynched. That would be so ingenious. Just imagine the faces of the people: "We're totally lynching that pro-town playing guy ololol" and the moment I flip VI they're all like W T F. + Show Spoiler + Just for clarification: Yes parts of this posts were sarcasm and are not meant to be taken seriously + Show Spoiler + it's the second part if you think BH is scum then vote for him if you're town you're the last person who would get lynched if he flipped town, the fact that you're worried enough about town perspective on your own guilt to vote based on that openly is highly suspicious | ||
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On February 25 2012 19:13 Dirkzor wrote: Shit I actually believe that claim =/ (haven't reread though) why, it wasn't factored into the vote at all | ||
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The fact that he said if I'm RB'd kill me makes me more inclined to think his claim was genuine. Mafia would be far more aware of the rules and how roleblocking works if they have one and him forgetting that he wouldn't even know about an RB is more town than scum indicative. I was more concerned with how badly he misrepresented other peoples arguments and seemed to be putting words in peoples mouths than the fact that he was spammy. He wasn't halfheartedly pushing a policy lynch, he was pushing it really hard until no one went along with it. His moving around from candidate to candidate in retrospect seems very indecisive or that he is doubting himself under pressure, although it could indeed be scum flip-flopping. If you think I'm scum for defending RedFF that's interesting seeing as he was my #1 read on Day 1 and I voted to lynch him and switched my vote at the last minute after pressuring BC a lot. Am I scum for "defending" BC now? | ||
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redFF: 7 RebirthOfLeGenD Kitaman27 Wherebugsgo chaoser BloodyC0bbler layabout Blazinghand Is it normal for these doublevote roles not to have their votes counted as such? Shouldn't it say redFF: 8 RebirthOfLeGenD Kitaman27 Wherebugsgo chaoser BloodyC0bbler layabout Blazinghand I'd be willing to lynch RoL or VE and we could test BH's claim if it was something like this: BH : 6 Person Person Person Person Person VE : 5 BH Person Person Person Person If BH is telling the truth, VE would die come night instead of BH. | ||
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BH - 6 person person person person person person VE/RoL - 5 BH person person person person | ||
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On February 26 2012 04:48 Toadesstern wrote: What about lynching people who aren't even playing this game? I've got a feeling we've been wrong on most of our scummy reads so far and that's why mafia is chilling and not even posting in this thread. Yeah it's a pretty big assumption but I really don't like people like risk and Chaoser. For all I know those two could very well end up being modkilled. Of course there's no such thing as activity modkill but not voting for someone will still be a modkill and neither of those 2 has voted. I'd say we lynch one of those 2 if one of them shows up and votes without a reason or just a oneliner the very next day. I don't see a reason to lynch into possible modkills right now so I won't suggest switching votes. Tyrran and Kita are somewhat the same because they haven't voted yet, they don't post a lot but they do post from time to time. Jackal hasn't voted either but has at least some presence in this thread like Kita and Tyrran and well, he's known for doing this lurkish style and the other ones I've mentioned are more extreme imo. So you have no confidence in your reads would you rather just lynch random lurkers instead? Who is "we", the town? You think we've all been wrong? That's discouraging and unhelpful. It doesn't matter if you have "a feeling" that everything is wrong. If you have a feeling that BH or RoL or VE or anything is the wrong lynch then go back, do some reading, and think critically about what's going on. Besides displaying a complete lack of confidence you're not doing anything besides pointing out who is lurking which is something everyone should be aware of, all they'd have to do even is to just see who has or hasn't voted by looking at the voting thread. Your lack of confidence is really alarming to me and I'm not sure yet whether to pin you as town who just got his self-esteem devastated by AC or scum trying to be active without being noticed or controversial. | ||
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Looking at r.n's filter he's offering very little compared to what he had to bring to the table in Arkham City which makes me suspicious. He didn't troll or anything like that in AC and I see a lot of commentary on things not relevant to finding scum when he was pretty serious about that in AC. Chaoser seems to be totally busy and just uninvolved, I'm inclined to think he's town but he needs to post a lot more as soon as he has the time. Jackal is playing very reservedly which is not totally normal but does not alarm me. The few posts kitaman has made are posts that I'm mostly alright with. | ||
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On February 26 2012 06:16 Toadesstern wrote: Risk has been sitting in irc for the last couple of days playing irc mafia and bw-mafia instead. Yes if that happens it IS activly lurking and it IS activly playing anti-town. I agree on Chaoser. That guy seems to be totally busy, he hasn't even posted this cycle so we'll see about this. The chances of him being modkilled are quite high, so no need to talk about him unless he actually comes back voting for someone. Didn't know about that, I don't pay attention to the irc. His filter is pretty damn scummy, hasn't BH been pushing r.n too? | ||
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RoL risk.nuke dirkzor VE | ||
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At least we know now it isn't a no-flip game. If Scum have janitor, one-shot janitor maybe, I'd use it Day 1 no matter if RedFF were town or not. The confusion it would cause is worth it either way | ||
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Dirkzor Jitsu BloodyC0bbler what is so special about risk/wbg/ve/chaoser's votes on BH??? | ||
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have you never been pressured before/ | ||
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On February 26 2012 07:26 syllogism wrote: So what about RoL, Toad? RoL is his gf | ||
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On February 26 2012 10:40 wherebugsgo wrote: replace "chaoser" with RoL and tell me why we shouldn't kill him. when RoL actually does show up he posts like scum, chaoser is inconclusively inactive I'm mostly concerned by what RoL isn't saying, things he isn't noticing that he usually jumps all over people for but he just harps on about Red's claim and is OMGUSing hard | ||
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On February 26 2012 23:42 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote: You are retarded, I am not responding to your posts anymore. This game is seriously annoying me. I said you were scummy Day 1 and just because you put out some bullshit analysis on me first doesn't mean I am OMGUSing you. You ASKED for me to explain how RedFF is scummy and I did yet I am scummy for "continuing" to mention it when I brought it up like twice? Excellent! But its great you don't even know how to use OMGUS properly. If an accusation comes out of nowhere, then yes that could be an OMGUS scumtell. But its not a scumtell when I already voiced suspicions of you, I am allowed to think my accuser is legitimately scummy and when I have showed you before that, that is the case then you have no leg to stand on. Stop being bad. Then don't respond to me maybe you'll do one useful thing in this entire game, it'd be best if you died now though | ||
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On February 27 2012 07:47 Dirkzor wrote: I disagree: Jackal could very well have been a Town vig... Jackal is hard to read and he havent really been Mr. Helpful. If a vig hit Jackal I think they might as well claim so | ||
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BC's town hasn't been impressive this game at all. Yes he is (according to everyone else here) a semi-god who plays a sick mafia but his townplay so far has not impressed me at all. Neither did it in L. Not saying it's bad, just not what I expected after everyone yelling "omfg BC top 3 players on TL" (or whatever). Assumption that BC is town. This either means that he knows BC's alignment is town (meaning scum or DT) or that they are both scum and Toades is afraid to say anything suspicious of BC. Dunno. I've actually seen RoL play this badly as town before. I think he ragequit Salem after someone accused him of being scum. It made him so angry that he flamed the shit out of the guy (idr who it was) then roleclaimed and left the game. | ||
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oh shit wait who was it who ragequit that game | ||
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On February 28 2012 04:33 BloodyC0bbler wrote: As a note DrH to help prove your point, i believe mafia 42 (i believe this is flamewheels weird mason mechanic game) would fit the bill for RoL playing badly as town. He lurked until heavily called out, then proceeded to push lynches on townies and get into pointless arguments with his accusers. RoL is the kind of guy who will call anyone who calls him out a retard and get super mad if hes town and it's the only thing that makes me doubt he might be scum I always tried to get youngminii lynched for the same reasons and we ended up both being town or he'd shoot me | ||
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@Toades It isn't a scumslip to say he's pretty sure these 3 guys are scum. You're grasping at straws defensively, it's really obvious to me now. | ||
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On February 28 2012 07:51 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote: K man, if you guys really want to lynch me go ahead. I'm not arguing a stupid uphill battle anymore against the dumbass town and scumteam when I have school work to do among other things. If you think killing me will help then win then glhf sounds like you shouldn't have even joined this game | ||
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if WBG was scum looking to kill RedFF (and had prior knowledge of the noflip) why would he pussyfoot around it when his scum meta is super confident?? | ||
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On February 28 2012 08:14 VisceraEyes wrote: DoctorHelvetica falling back on meta? Say it isn't so Doc. I don't know why - maybe he's aware of his 'super-confident' meta and wanted to subvert it? Maybe he thought redFF was the very best mislynch possible and didn't want to spook townies by building a wagon too fast? There are a lot of factors coming into play as scum - take your pick as to why he wouldn't "follow his scum-meta". I don't think it's scummy to not make first analysis or anything like that. I've hardly been pushing my reads either. WBG is pretty high on my list of people I think are scummy in this game but your analysis is bad and coupled with your play earlier in the game I'm inclined to think it's more likely that you're scum. I'm going to reread WBG's filter later but I really think we should lynch Toades today. You agree that it's scummy to vote based on town perception right? A main point in your analysis is WBG asking syllo for his opinion before pushing his case, thus implying WBG is more concerned about how town will view his opinions rather than his own instincts. Toades publically announced his reluctance to vote for BH based on nothing except for how town might view the vote. Nobody at the time was very concerned with Toadesstern and if BH flipped town I would have immediately rechecked BC and Dirkzor but not Toadesstern. The fact that he was so concerned with how town viewed him and also the fact that he was trivial in the BH lynch/case but yet saw himself as important enough to warrant a town reaction is the kind of implicit guilt and fear that mafia reek of. If you are town and you really suspect WBG is scum keep pressuring him and I'll see what happens, but for now Toades is the best lynch. RoL is uninterested in the game and should just be shot at night, I'd rather not waste a lynch on someone who isn't pressured by it and is too immature to play a game in which some people are suspicious of him | ||
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On February 25 2012 11:56 Toadesstern wrote: the sad part here is that I'm not getting out here alive no matter what's going to happen, because it's the very same situation we had in L d1 with Palmar. If BH flips town and I keep my vote off him everyone is going to rant about me "how does that noob have a better read than a fantastillion of our best vets?" If BH flips mafa and I keep my vote off him everyone is going to rant about me because I was "defending" him. If BH flips town and I vote him everyone is going to rant about me "how does that noob have a better read than a fantastillion of our best vets?" If BH flips mafia and I vote vote him everyone is going to rant about how I only voteswitched after I had to. Sad story, isn't it? However, I'm going to rethink this whole thing when I wake up tomorrow. Should be plenty of time. For now I'm sticking with RoL. | ||
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On February 28 2012 08:29 wherebugsgo wrote: also I had a very good reason for not voting RoL yesterday; one that should be apparent for anyone who is closely reading my posts. However, since the number of people who are closely reading my posts is either 0 or 1, I'll probably just have to say it at some point. cause RoL isn't scum and scum are keeping him alive cause it's the easy lynch right BC/Dirkzor/Toadesstern/VE imo | ||
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Here's how scum play often works: Scum 1: I need to push a bandwagon today so X doesn't get lynched Scum 2: WBG has been pretty spammy, changed his mind a lot, etc. he might be an easy candidate Scum 1: Hm, ok I'll make a post about it I'm still reading all the posts here but it seems like VE is criticizing WBG for buddying? On February 22 2012 14:56 VisceraEyes wrote: DocH I'm intrigued by your ideas and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter. Also this: On February 22 2012 16:42 VisceraEyes wrote: That was dangerously close to role-fishing syllo - the existance of one town-tracker doesn't preclude a second town-tracker. Am I missing something? "Role fishing" imo is one of those things that scum accuses other townies of doing it's supposed to be "Scummy" but in 5 or 6 games as scum I have never really done it or known any teammates to do it either, except in PM games where it's pretty easy and often town roles have a lot of incentive to rolefish On February 22 2012 15:55 VisceraEyes wrote: And BC is your strongest read right now Syllo? Like, without question? Did you ever get around to looking at the whole WBG/chaoser thing sir? I feel like that exchange means something. chaoser's defense was solid, but I didn't mind WBG's attack either. However, chaoser still seems to be interested in finding scum, while WBG has only recently been calling red scum...he's been tunneled in on chaoser ever since that argument. I'm starting to get a red read on WBG. Is this really that different than what WBG did? | ||
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On February 28 2012 10:41 Toadesstern wrote: That's a really important point I made and I'm going to bring it up again: The logical conclusion for a townie in wbg's position would be: Mafia would not try to get another wagon but unless Toad is mafia himself, therefore it's either Toad + VE mafia and VE is trying to rescue him or it's ONLY Toad mafia + a confused townie VE who joined the wrong side. OR both are townies. However, VE being mafia is while I am a townie is the most retarded thing ever. VE could hve easily joined the Toad-wagon and he did not. So now one might ask why isn't wbg asking himself those questions? I'd consider those things pretty important if I were confused about 4 people and can't figure out which of those 4 are mafia. I guess by now you guys already figured out what the funny thing about this all is: Wbg isn't asking these questions because he doesn't need to. He's not asking those questions because they are pointless and lead to absolutely no conclusion whatsoever I'm not surprised you'd concoct a defense of VE based on shaky WIFOM | ||
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On February 28 2012 10:48 Toadesstern wrote: wat? That question PROVES I am mafia if he really thinks the way he does. IT PROVES I AM MAFIA OR NONE OF THE GUYS HE WANTS TO LYNCH IS MAFIA. How is that pointless? He said he can deliver you 3/3 mafia if we lynch into VE / RoL / ME. VE is a confirmed townie for me right now because of what I said (that' not bad either, is it?) so 1 is wrong. I am wrong as well but instead of telling people "well that proves toad is mafia" he goes on to pressure prpl? The fuck? VE voting for you or not is not indicative of your or his alignment no matter what you flip It, in fact, proves absolutely nothing | ||
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On February 28 2012 10:50 wherebugsgo wrote: no, it doesn't prove anything. It's complete WIFOM because I have no fucking clue what the mafia would do in this situation. The fact that you're insinuating that I could actually find out the answers to those questions makes you look redder. It's funny because if I were in VE's spot as mafia and toades was town I wouldn't vote for Toades at all | ||
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I, personally, am a huge fan of early bussing or tunneling my teammates as scum | ||
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On February 28 2012 10:54 Toadesstern wrote: why not? Why should mafia start a counterwagon and defend me? What if you and WBG are both town? VE had been pushing WBG since Day 2, it would be weird for him to change his tune suddenly especially when he's in line with what me and Toadesstern are talkng about when he's been opposed to both of us since the last day. you're full of empty scumtells | ||
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On February 28 2012 10:55 prplhz wrote: @DoctorHelvetica This isn't another dumb ploy where you're shifting your vote from player X to player Y to pressure them and then switching back to player X because that's who you actually thought was scum all the time? Because that's pretty shabby to do mere hours before deadline. Do you actually have a scum read on anybody here or are you just going to make 50 cases and then never do anything about it? I don't see why syllogism was fine with wherebugsgo and why he didn't see how any townie would want to lynch DoctorHelvetica. They're both quite good at this game, they're both quite active, they're both surprisingly full of shit. I changed my mind, if you can tell me why that's scummy I'll make a video of me eating soap BC didn't impress me Day 2 and I think he's probably scum but I feel very very secure in Toades. I'm well known for second guessing myself and changing votes often. Radfield and jayjay concocted this to be the lynchpin of a fake case on me and to throw suspicion on me in Arkham City, because it is very normal in my town meta but easy to call scummy too I thought RoL was scum Day 2, I changed my vote when BH became more suspicious to me I thought BC was scum Day 1 and still do, I changed my vote because I was equally sure about RedFF and thought Day 2 would give me a better idea about BC's alignment I've only done one fake thing in this entire game and no one really caught onto it like I was hoping so it doesn't matter | ||
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On February 28 2012 10:59 kitaman27 wrote: Also, DrH, you never responded to my question earlier. What triggered you to move to blazing over RoL yesterday? Do you believe "giving up" is a town RoL response? Thought BH was scummier and lost confidence in my read once I started second-guessing myself mostly based on RoL's personality and remembering how things were with youngminii when we played together. I figured RoL, being more inactive, is better left to vigilantes since a bandwagon on an inactive player doesn't move discussion | ||
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On February 28 2012 10:57 wherebugsgo wrote: agreed. However, I don't care atm because it's a waste of time. Do you think RoL is mafia? prpl? VE? I assume since you still have your vote on Toad you still think he is scum. If I had to guess right now I'd say the scum team is between these 5: Toades/Dirk BC VE RoL I think it's gonna be 4 of these players. I feel uncomfortable about you and I feel uncomfortable about Kitaman, risk.nuke, and Jitsu but I need to read more on that. I think our DT's should check inactive players. As far as RoL, he definitely has the personality type to react this way even as town, unfortunately. I don't like lynching people like this because I'm so bad with second guessing myself. I really don't like rolling town at all. | ||
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On February 28 2012 11:03 kitaman27 wrote: You think there is a vigilante after RoL or chaoser wasn't shot last night? Do you think he would be a better lynch tomorrow if he lives another night? I'm really not sure what we gain by keeping a likely scum player alive. On that note, I've been tricked into putting off my hw yet again. bbl Dunno, could have hit a vet or a medic blocked player or a mafia vet or a mafia medic or something, or no vig, or a day vig, it's a closed setup. I think inactive/lurky players should be lynched once the vocal scum suspects are gone. They are the lower priority imo | ||
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On February 28 2012 11:19 Toadesstern wrote: holy shit it's irc mafia all over again: Toad gets shot by mafia 6 times in a row. -> VE: "TOAD COULD BE MAFIA SHOOTING HIMSELF TO LOOK TOWNIE, WE SHOULD LYNCH HIM" ![[image loading]](http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5258/5509611799_82aa328735.jpg) i shouldn't have to explain why that is completely irrelevant because you don't even know if you get shot or saved what does that have to do with anything it proves nothing that VE isn't bandwagoning you, why would he abandon his case from Day 2 for an easy lynch you're aware that there is more than 1 person that is scum and they will all act differently and probably vote in different ways right they're not all just going to pile on you im pretty sure im the only person voting you right now too so it's not like this is some super easy bandwagon they can all go under and VE has been pushing WBG for a while now. i see absolutely no logic whatsoever in how this would ever even take an inch of suspicion off of VE in a hundred million years much less how it would CONFIRM and PROVE he is town to you or anybody | ||
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His defense is completely illogical and not only based on WIFOM but not even WIFOM that I can understand or agree with in any case. The "why didn't RoL get vig'd" argument is better than this and that's still totally inconclusive. I understand that Toades will say he is town regardless of his alignment but it's not convincing to anyone, certainly not enough to clear VE. If you think VE is so innocent and good enough to put this much effort into defending him wouldn't you be better off just pushing your own wagon and trying to convince people to vote with you? | ||
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On February 28 2012 11:59 prplhz wrote: Meh. I don't really want to lynch into VisceraEyes/wherebugsgo because they're both reasonably active but if I have to then I'll lynch wherebugsgo. I think there's something off about him. Just his "All the three people accusing me of being scum in this thread are scum.". That's fucking insane. I'd much rather lynch into those people who are abusing the activity requirements. I mean, write a fucking post. I don't agree at all with DoctorHelvetica's "lets leave low-activity people for later". Everybody here has a page or two of posts and that should be enough that we can get a read on them. I think we could lynch chaoser and there seems to be consensus about that among all the people present right now. Here's his filter. He hasn't said a thing for two days now and he doesn't seem to care much about the game with the "When's deadline?" and seems to be faking activity with "I'll do votecounts myself.". He was only reasonably active during day1 but since then he doesn't seem to care about the game (that's gone way off track). Enough for a read, but I'd rather lynch an active suspect than an inactive one because they will respond to the pressure and the discussion will move forward. More talking = good for town because it exposes scum. Never said inactive people are totally inconclusive or should never be lynched. | ||
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On February 28 2012 11:18 Jitsu wrote: Doc, are you quite certain that if Toades is killed, Dirk isn't mafia? And visa verse? I think it's feasible that both players flipped red this game. Toad has been scummy for the larger part of the game - half the shit he's doing doesn't see town driven to me. I keep going back to the one post he made trying to totally absolve himself of Blazinghand flipping town. That shit is not town driven. At all. And if it is town driven, it's flawed at that. You vote because you think someone is scum. Not because you want to train with the rest of the town and cross you're fingers that he's now telling the truth. I thought he fake-claimed. In fact, I was pretty sure it was a fake-claim. I'll own it. I fucked up on reading him as scum. Toad wants to take no blame for it though. Also, where the shit has Cwave gone. Replaces Risk.nuke. Posts once. Gone. I see no reason to believe that Dirk and Toades can't be together on a scumteam | ||
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You're sooooooooooo implicitly guilty | ||
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Why would a scum VE abandon the case he established on Day 2 and push you instead, if you're town? You're assuming that EVERY scum in the game MUST bandwagon you if you're town, why the fuck are you so special? Yes, it's an easy bandwagon. That doesn't lead us to a single thing except worthless speculation. I'm not assuming WBG is town either btw You've done a good job of diverting the conversation into something totally useless. Unless anyone else in the game is dumb enough to think you're making a point I'm going to ignore this line of conversation now. Have any interest in establishing why YOU are innocent or why we should lynch someone other than you or VE and who that is? Your whole play right not will accomplish nothing except maybe: 1. Setting yourself up to get bussed and then buddies push a town-VE lynch Day 3 2. Preventing VE from getting lynched. By the way, VE never "defended" you literally all he did was make a case on somebody other than you. 3. Creates useless confusing conversation in town, distracts from lurkers etc. Hey, by Toades' logic, all you have to do to be 100% proven confirmed town is to push a lynch OTHER than Toadesstern. This proves you are townie, so everyone go ahead and confirm themselves so we can find all the scum! | ||
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On February 28 2012 12:26 Toadesstern wrote: Again it's not about VE's alignment. In every single Explanation wbg could come up with I am mafia and VE is either mafia or Town. He knows that as townie and proceeds saying "well I'm no longer sure about you Toad, could be you're town"? THEN WHAT IS IT ABOUT BECAUSE ALL YOU'RE SAYING IS VE IS 100% TOWN BECAUSE IF HE WERE SCUM HE WOULD VOTE FOR YOU WHICH IS FUCKING DUMB | ||
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On February 28 2012 12:25 VisceraEyes wrote: I mean, I would be down with a Toadesstern lynch, but I've played scum with Toad before. Toad has more confidence when scum start winning the game - he wouldn't be acting paranoid like this if he were on a winning scum-team. I refuse to believe it. In XLVII he fake-claimed medic and got "confirmed" as town, and he certainly acted the part. I don't see the same kind of play this game. Actually, now that you mention AC, I got this EXACT feeling from Toadesstern regarding the whole Palmar-rgShwortz-Toadesstern WIFOM Circle of Confusion. He was town in AC. So I mean, if you think he's a better lynch than WBG or myself, go for it - I'll be on WBG though, and I'm pretty sure WBG will be on me and we'll just have to deal with this tomorrow assuming we're both still alive. Yeah but he ignored that. Toades acted really confidently during that section, he made some mistakes but nothing really comparable to what is happening now other than the fact that it is confusing and that was more Palmar's fault than Toades | ||
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what the fuck are you talking about i have no idea when wbg even entered the equation because a few pages ago you were saying VE is confirmed by not voting for you | ||
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On February 28 2012 13:09 kitaman27 wrote: Weird seeing you guys list 4 person scum teams considering red's flip was hidden. A no-flip is inconclusive, it would be bad to operate under the assumption that there are only 3 mafia left, are you saying that's the case??? | ||
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I got into what I can only assume is a mason QT but nobody responded in it and I have no idea who invited me or how it works | ||
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He's defending VE further by claiming WBG is scum because WBG doesn't believe that both Toades and VE are town or something retarded like that. His play is so so so far away from what he was like in AC that I can't imagine he is town here too. Prplhz is a player I have a hard time reading because when he goes on to make complicated posts I think a lot of meaning is lost in translation. Regardless, he's been on the opposite side of pretty much every conclusion I've come to. Toades is #1 for me today, I have a small amount of doubt considering VE, none of which I have with Toad. | ||
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On February 28 2012 14:41 Toadesstern wrote: so you didn't understand it after all And I never based my vote on how it will affect peoples perception of me. You're making that up and I already responded to that one. The post you're quoted had nothing to do with my vote but was a mere sidecomment. I unvoted BH a lot earlier because I thought he's could be confused townie or a mafia who does that on purpose. I revoted BH later again because I thought it's still a coinflip and to get rid of someone who would have been an issue the next day. Not to begin with the fact that noone was in here d2 and a switch was not possible because 1) noone was here 2) I was one of the fewer people saying BH could be a townie. You explicitly stated you were reluctant to vote for BH because no matter what he flipped people will somehow think you're scum paranoid scum behavior | ||
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what strikes me as so odd is you were so sure about you getting lynched, but no one had really pushed a lynch on you yet. no one has been bandwagoning you and even today im the only person voting for you but you talk like you have half the town voting for you | ||
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On February 28 2012 15:23 Toadesstern wrote: no, not after you you said that. It was within the same post. Well yeah because according to you guys I scumslipped. That someone people get lynched for rather fast if people believe it really is a scumslip, so yeah I got like 3 people attacking me withint 20 or so minutes (you, Tyrran and wbg?) because of that "scumslip" and you+wbg said we need to lynch me because of that "scumslip". What's the reason you think I'm posting like I've got half the town voting me? none of this happened before you made that post | ||
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On February 28 2012 19:14 Dirkzor wrote: While I was sleeping DrH have accomplished to add 2-3 more page to his filter without saying anything. He have called 6+ player scummy but made no cases or really pushed for their lynch. He called out toad for cluttering up the thread but continued to do so himself the same way he have done earlier. ##Vote DrH That's not at all why I called Toad out, I don't think I even mentioned him spamming at all | ||
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lol what a joke | ||
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On February 28 2012 10:41 DoctorHelvetica wrote: I want to lynch Toadesstern or Dirkzor today, regardless. I have too many reservations about VE right now to feel 100% comfortable with lynching him over those players today. I've done a lot of pressure on Toades already and since he reacted by dodging later I'm more inclined to think he is scum especially after he claimed it was super important and necessary for town to prove they are town I'm asking people what they think of him, why they suspect other people more, etc. I've had a very long night and I'm too tired to make a serious push and it would be dumb to do it when most people are asleep anyway But let's not get sidetracked and talk about what i'm doing and let's see what you're doing: 1. You said "While I was sleeping DrH have accomplished to add 2-3 more page to his filter without saying anything. He have called 6+ player scummy but made no cases" you YOURSELF admit this is a lie. In fact I have made at least one case every single day cycle so far. 2. "made no cases or really pushed for their lynch." - you admit this isn't true as well. Even in the same sentences you say "You have pushed toad" then say I didn't push toad? what the fuck? 3. "He called out toad for cluttering up the thread but continued to do so himself the same way he have done earlier." You're misrepresenting my criticism of Toad. You criticized BH for being spammy and were very clear about that. I criticized Toad for taking the attention on to himself and onto irrelevant WIFOM instead of offering lynch candidates or defending himself with reason. His method of defense was to create terrible WIFOM that somehow confirms WBG is scum and VE is town, that's my issue with Toades but you're basically pinning my entire issue with him down to 2 bolded sentences in one of many posts regarding him which are the least important parts of the message and on top of that you misinterpreted them completely NOT ONLY THAT - you fail to explain why any of those things even IF they were true are scummy or make me scum | ||
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While I was sleeping DrH have accomplished to add 2-3 more page to his filter without saying anything. He have called 6+ player scummy but made no cases or really pushed for their lynch. He called out toad for cluttering up the thread but continued to do so himself the same way he have done earlier. ##Vote DrH i see nothin about hours here i guess it's pretty scummy that i wasn't making cases when i was out getting dinner and watching tv with my girlfriend when i already made my case for today on toadesstern who i pressured and will move to get lynched when people are awake | ||
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How can you say I have no agenda if you're not paying attention to what I'm really saying you just want to start a stupid bandwagon on me, no one else is dumb enough to think I'm scum except RoL | ||
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Toadesstern's primary issue in this game is that he is implicitly guilty. He is scared to vote for BH on Day 2 because he thinks he's gonna get lynched for doing it no matter what BH flips even though no one was even paying attention to him at the time. Mafia worry about their votes. Mafia worry about how town sees them. Town worries about who is mafia. @Prplhz VE never said WBG claimed a role. You keep ignoring active posting targets and going after lurkers, ones who probably won't respond to you. Your defense of Dirkzor is wishy washy and wrong. Dirkzor 100% misrepresented me then backpedaled and made it seem like he never said I never made cases and pushed people even though that's exactly what he did word for word. He said he never said it was scummy that I have a lot of posts then why was that part of his reason for voting for me? He's full of shit and basically admitted he has a hard time reading me earlier. I haven't pushed any agenda? What the fuck does that mean? Did I not get a lot of people to vote BC on Day 1? Did I not go after RoL the hardest? Am I not trying to get toadesstern lynched now? Stupid. Can't believe you'd think anything Dirkzor is doing is a pro-town agenda. Dirkzor is definitely the scum trying hardest to appear pro-town though as kitaman noticed d1 | ||
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On February 29 2012 03:16 Toadesstern wrote: Lynch RoL. We're trying to lynch the guy for 3 straight up days. Everyone says RoL is a good lynch and that they'd be willing to lynch him yet he survived until now and even now people are talking about something else.. It's a bad lynch | ||
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1. Not a single person has defended him 2. He isn't posting, the lynch will happen with no pressure and we basically wasted a days discussion 3. I'm the only person who has pointed out what is scummy about his actions anyway and not just complained that he's inactive or a dick Yes we should lynch RoL, but not today | ||
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On February 29 2012 03:29 Kurumi wrote: 4. He is brought up again with no new evidence. How can you have "new" evidence on a player who isn't posting | ||
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The first chainsaw BC --> BH | ||
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On February 29 2012 03:39 Toadesstern wrote: well he never got lynched so maybe we had a bunch of counterwagons? Like BH and myself? You have 1 vote | ||
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On February 29 2012 03:40 VisceraEyes wrote: DocH could you get down on a Tyrran lynch since the RoL lynch is so terrible? No, his filter is small but very pro town | ||
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On February 29 2012 03:55 Tyrran wrote: OKay, back from work. I dont understand people trying to devert the RoL pressure on me. There is no reason lynching me over RoL. I've been apparently useless, and RoL was diverting town from scum hunting. So i'm a better lynch? ONly if you are scum ( hi prplhz and VE). @DocH : I understand your point about RoL, but you seems to think that he is scum. Why shouldnt we keep a scum alive and risk lynching a townie ? ( although I could go with a VE/Toad/prplhz lynch too, but i'm more confident on RoL for now). @Kurumi : You say there is no new evidence. He was the second focus of the lynch yesterday, but no one that seems scummy voted for him. The player who pushed the most for his lynch was murdered by scum, and flipped blue. While scum could be playing with us, it seem clear to me that they saw a danger in Syllo, who was pushing for RoL. I understand there are still more active player that are scum, but i dont really see why we should keep RoL alive. Who do you lynch after RoL? I believe if you wanna lynch scummy lurkers that they have lower priority than active lurkers. Right now Toadesstern, Dirkzor, VE, and prplhz are all better than RoL for a lynch. I don't understand this pushing thing tbh. Lots of people have not "pushed" their cases much such as BC who will make an analysis and some comments then pretty much abstain from posting for the rest of the day. That doesn't really seem scummy to me. I don't see why a townie would have to scream for a lynch after he makes his case especially if it is apparent a lot of people agree with him? I never had to push BC or RoL or RedFF or BH. Why would I "Push" a lynch that is winning, it makes no sense. As far as Tyrran, he town read BH and kept voting for RoL, he isn't even remotely wishy washy. A townie having a few doubts about the lynch or mechanics in a closed setup? WOW it's fucking nothing. What do you mean he didn't push? When Day 2 started RoL was winning and then Toad kept going onto RoL, what do you have to do for the scumteam not to say "Look he didn't push!" | ||
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then Dirkzor: Yeah you made a lot of cases yeah you're pushing toad but you're not pushing any lynch then Dirkzor: I never said you didn't make cases I said you didn't make any cases in the last 8 hours when you were out eating dinner and watching tv that's scummy then Dirkzor: You don't have a town or scum agenda this makes you scum seriously guys seriously | ||
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Could my agenda be any more clear? You're echoing Dirkzor without acknowledging him in thread too. My agenda is to lynch scum. I cased BC on Day 1 and lots of people voted for him. I didn't need to push it because my analysis did the work for me. BC responded and I voted instead for RedFF who was tied as a high scumread with BC. Come Day 2, BC did some alright posting and I laid down a case on my top scum targets. RoL gets instavotes, I don't need to push it because it's the number one bandwagon at the time. I'm not super active when things change around to BH who I only didn't vote for on Day 1 because I second guessed myself too much. Day 3 I case Toadesstern and I'm pushing him. I've been saying he should be lynched. I've been saying he's scummier than VE or anyone when people as me. What do I have to say, exactly, to qualify as "pushing" something? Even if I did that you would find some roundabout retarded way to pretend I haven't done anything in this game. Keep coming after me and making yourself more obvious though. | ||
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On February 29 2012 04:43 Toadesstern wrote: you still don't have anything about my case other than "the guy behaves like half the town is voting him" and yeah I wanted to clear out that "scumslip" misinterpretation as soon as possible because that's stuff that can produce mislynches. Other than that you've got nothing on me. Even if it were the case I don't post like that as mafia according to VE. Somthing else that makes you want to lynch me? Yeah your inexplicable defense of VE, calling WBG scum based on moronic WIFOM logic, wavering confidence (coming in and saying yeah guys my reads are bad etc., then gaining confidence suddenly, losing it again when you are pressured), implicitly guilty post behavior your post about BH is still scummy and while you explained why you would post it as town i don't believe you and still perceive it to be scummy, is that difficult to understand? if dirkzor and prplhz keep making a joke out of themselves you might not die today | ||
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On February 29 2012 04:46 Kurumi wrote: Jackal is dead. Vigilante is doing his/her job. Unless You know more than us, of course. the vig hit jackal? it hought so, can you confirm that? | ||
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On February 29 2012 04:49 Kurumi wrote: I can't confirm it. Could You just think a second about it? Why Mafia would lynch Jackal, who played really decent this game? And, I honestly believe Mafia has 1KP. Now, let's just decide on a lynch. mafia did hit jackal tho | ||
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mafia isn't stupid enough to claim vig hit so there's no reason for me to hide it Anyway, if you can demonstrate how I don't seem to believe in my cases or how I don't care that'd be great. I've said over and over, why would I need to yell at people to lynch someone when they have consistently voted for my cases and how can you say I'm not pushing Toades now. Do I need to be angrier about it or something? | ||
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On February 29 2012 05:06 Kurumi wrote: Are You implying that Mafia: 1) Has 2 KP 2) Hit syllo who was in contact with wbg 3) Hit Jackal ? i'm saying 1) mafia hit jackal dunno who hit syllo i have to wait until tonight to see | ||
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I know that mafia hit Jackal, I'm the Forensics Expert I was hoping to bait out a fake vig claim early in the day but no dice. Still, Dirkzor agreed that a vig claiming would be a good idea which is almost too stupid to be scumshit but I still think he's scum | ||
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On February 29 2012 05:13 Tyrran wrote: What is forensics ? each cycle i can determine the alignment of the person who killed someone so today I asked "jackal" and the result was mafia it's not a role that can confirm me or anything like that, it's really not even worth discussing except maybe going over jackal's filter | ||
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yeah, if i'm scum i would know which faction hit which person anyway, it's the easiest role to fake | ||
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kurumi have you actually made a case or analysis on any player you said should be lynched because you're saying we should lynch WBG but you don't seem to have a reason why | ||
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On February 29 2012 05:22 Dirkzor wrote: Stop with the RoL is getting modkilled. We don't know that. Stop saying that. DrH: Why did you bring up your role now a few hours before lynch? It's completely irrelevant and you're not going to get lynched anyway. Because of what Kurumi was saying earlier and I wasn't trying to confirm or defend myself or anything like that, it's not defensive unlike BH and RFF | ||
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On February 29 2012 05:25 wherebugsgo wrote: Anyone who wants to speculate shit about the setup instead of finding scum: You're wasting time. Specifically, one of you (Toad) has done it so consistently as to pretty much derail the thread whenever possible. This makes it nearly impossible to actually focus on killing scum. Great scum tactic. Kill prpl/Toad/VE today. From the looks of it, prpl has the best chance to be lynched. Dr. H do you have any qualms about switching your vote? I agreed with Toad being scummy (hell, I voted him before you) but the problem is that, realistically, this town is too stupid to do what's optimal. At least, judging by the number of players who are playing like shit, they can't all be scum. My only qualm is now scum will say tomorrow that I didn;'t "push" or whatever that means or is supposed to mean but I don't care because it's the best decision I'll push vigs to hit toades and dirkzor at night then | ||
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On February 29 2012 05:28 Dirkzor wrote: WBG: okay. If you say so. *grumbling about reading comprehensions and stupid people* Progression of Dirkzor's argument for why DrH is scum 1. DrH has never made cases or pushed 2. DrH made cases and pushed but didn't push a lynch 3. DrH has no town or scum agenda 4. DrH hasn't made cases in the last 8 hours 5. DrH is misrepresenting me by saying I said he never made any cases or pushed! | ||
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On February 29 2012 05:28 wherebugsgo wrote: Dr H, problem is we don't even know if there is a vig or not. Realistically it's just easier to kill prplhz now. my role implies the existence of town or third party KP | ||
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On February 28 2012 19:14 Dirkzor wrote: While I was sleeping DrH have accomplished to add 2-3 more page to his filter without saying anything. He have called 6+ player scummy but made no cases or really pushed for their lynch. He called out toad for cluttering up the thread but continued to do so himself the same way he have done earlier. ##Vote DrH I already acknowledge you made cases yesterday. No one is saying you havent. I'm saying that you haven't done anything the last 8 hour. Even if you have made a lot of posts. Could ANYTHING BE MORE FLIMSY AND STUPID then calling someone scum based on their actions over 8 hours jesus and this is Dirk's #1 scumread | ||
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On February 29 2012 05:31 wherebugsgo wrote: I have no clue how Dirkzor plays but honestly most of the newer players look the sane to me I.E. BC's reference to Ace's jubjub quote is 100% what I think of them he's going after me because i didn't make a case during the 8 hours he paid attention to me when i was pressuring and pushin toadesstern he isn't jubjubing he also masterminded the BH lynch | ||
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On February 29 2012 05:35 wherebugsgo wrote: Syllo had KP. He's dead. I dunno if there's adequate reason to assume that anyone else is a vig. I forgot that. I'm going to assume there is a second vig or SK. I can ask for vigs to hit people and they either do or don't or don't exist, no harm no foul | ||
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On February 29 2012 06:16 Dirkzor wrote: So since I was the original mastermind (thx DrH) behind that I'm scum? least scummy thing about you | ||
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On February 29 2012 07:13 Dirkzor wrote: Okay now you're just sprouting non-sense. Why waste a Vig on me... you almost got WBG convinced to lynch me today... Why not just lynch me tomorrow.. Vigs: Shoot DrH. Save time, shoot you tonight and lynch BC tomorrow | ||
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I think RoL is town | ||
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On February 29 2012 08:07 Kurumi wrote: See Ya later. Maybe. If RoL really wanted to play he'd be just all over this thread by now. But he is not. He has done his thing and his back afk. And Dr.H is not the role he claimed. Vig, thanks for not claiming. You're a bro. Or just afk. Thanks for allt hat proof no shit it's good that the vig didn't claim, i never ever asked the vig to claim that's part of the reason i think dirkzor is scum | ||
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You didn't mention anything about me lying about my role other than some WIFOM thing that scum wouldn't hit Jackal? That's BS. As far as the mason role I'm not sure how it worked with WBG but last night I got a "phonecall" and a link to a quicktopic. Nobody posted in the quicktopic. I believe that I was masoned that night with syllogism or jackal who died and were thus unable to respond in the QT. If it was a recruiter mason I would be able to talk to that mason or to WBG who had already been recruited. Palmar posted in the QT as well and there are only 2 unique views meaning nobody even looked at it. I think this implies there is a role that instead chooses 2 people (maybe you cant choose yourself) and allows them to then communicate privately. Phone Operator? Something like that. I was wrong about my role, I can't find out what team hit syllogism until the beginning of the next day. I misinterpreted "cycle" to mean once each day and night but cycle I guess is day and night together. Your reads are pretty off Kurumi and I'd like to see you actually. support them. I'll check the strangest kill, it isn't too far to assume Syllo was hit by scum. Syllo's case on BC, if BC is scum, makes him a good hit and I know syllo is dangerous with his reads later in the game. Scum might have wanted to get him out of the way either way but because he was expressing disinterest in playing in the game by day 2 I imagine his Day 1 reads were pretty important in selecting him as a hit. I'll be rereading BC's filter because until I do the reading it's just a hunch but essentially I'm feeling that BC/Dirkzor have been the source of each days mislynch, I have been conned into second guessing myself each day this is the kind of play I did in Insane Mafia where my initial reads were 4/6 of the mafia team on Day 1 and I ended up hitting nothing. I believe that the BH wagon on Day 1 was meant to keep the BC lynch from gaining enough steam to lynch him. Blazinghand and Prplhz were respectively the worst players in this game and very easy to lynch. I got a much stronger scum read from prplhz than I did from BH personally, but nobody was voting on Toad or Dirk with me by the time the end of the cycle was close. BC pressured and laid the ground work for the mislynches that other people took over. He isn't being very active and his posting style is reminding me of what little I remember of being scum with him in one of BrownBear's games where we achieved perfect victory over town. I'm jumping back and forth on RoL and WBG being scum. I've agreed with a lot of what WBG has been saying recently, but I get an uncomfortable vibe from him. I really think his Day 1 play was pretty scummy and I know he's the kind of player to be a lone wolf on a scumteam and kinda go in opposition to the other players in the thread to keep a safe distance. RoL's saving vote is very suspect. He doesn't care about this game, he's even conceded that we should just kill him and he doesn't care. If he doesn't care about being killed why even vote to save yourself from a modkill? If he's scum he has way more incentive to help his team (especially if he is already doing so behind the scenes) than a townie who just "Gives up" would have. That strikes me as a bit strange. Hopefully we get a positive vig or DT read today. I think Kurumi, BC, Dirkzor are scum. One of WBG/VE and somebody inactive seems likely to me. RoL has yet to jump on the kind of super pro-town/wishy washy stuff he usually does but his professed lack of interest and time seems genuine to me. Just the fact that he saved himself seems odd considering his attitude. | ||
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On March 01 2012 04:38 Kurumi wrote: Aren't You scared, DoctorHelvetica? Great response, that answers all of my questions | ||
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On March 01 2012 04:41 kitaman27 wrote: DrH, why give RoL a free pass if he is voting 2 minutes before the deadline when it is impossible to switch to him? He had a full 48 hours to place his vote, yet chose to make it at the last moment possible to keep himself from harm. Your defense of him confuses me. I agree bugs and BC should be looked into if RoL turns up dead. That's exactly the thing I find to be most suspicious though | ||
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Why do you think I'm lying about my role? Why are you spending time speculating on the setup instead of actually making cases on the people you say are scum? You're not doing anything except saying "these people are scum", so far you haven't provided any convincing reason for anyone to agree with your reads. If responding to being called scum or asking you to support your read is evidence of being really scared or is somehow scummy then I'd love to hear you explain why that is | ||
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If I were the DT I'd check WBG or VisceraEyes tonight personally. I think one of them is definitely scum. | ||
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On March 01 2012 04:50 Kurumi wrote: Because I don't believe scum would kill Jackal, thus I don't believe Your claim. He could have been onto something in the day. They could have been trying to confuse us. They could have figured he's a dangerous player to keep around. They could have figured he would definitely not get medic protection. Syllo could have died to vig or third party, I don't know until tomorrow and I might not check his death. This is as WIFOM as it can get really. If mafia has 2 KP they both got blocked last night so maybe they just wanted to go after someone who was likely to not get protected? Who knows? I got the result I got. It is what it is. If I'm scum lying about it why not just say I got the vig result which is in line with what town was guessing anyway? That's WIFOM too but if you are willing to base your trust in a player based off of reasoning like that then why not. | ||
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On March 01 2012 05:09 Kurumi wrote: But syllogism was blue. Remember the wbg mason thing? Wouldn't knowing who killed syllogism be a lot better given this? I didn't know that at the beginning of the day that came lightyears after i sent in my target and got a result | ||
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I checked Jackal at the start of the day as soon as I saw the post | ||
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I'm assuming I was either opened up with Jackal or Syllo because nobody came to the QT besides me. | ||
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On March 01 2012 07:04 Toadesstern wrote: ok let me check this thing. Maybe I failed again like n2, but I'm pretty sure I doublechecked it this time Why would medics protect RoL twice in a row? RoL are you bulletproof? | ||
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why is VE confirmed mafia then | ||
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Probably Dirkzor but I'd like to see Toades explain how he "confirmed" VE, I bet it's a shaky wifom argument There are usually more town roles that can dodge night kills than mafia | ||
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Also, for what it's worth, I checked Kurumi and it was a mafia hit | ||
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stop fucking dodging | ||
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Toades if VE is proven scum please demonstrate proof Toades if VE is proven scum please demonstrate proof Toades if VE is proven scum please demonstrate proof Toades if VE is proven scum please demonstrate proofToades if VE is proven scum please demonstrate proof | ||
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On March 01 2012 08:23 Toadesstern wrote: just read for christs sake. There's like 5 pages about VE in layas and my filter. Confirmed is a lot different than suspect, you need to demonstrate the logic of why he is confirmed RIGHT NOW if you want to seriously push his lynch | ||
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Toades, how do you know your shot worked and you weren't RBd? | ||
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On February 23 2012 05:54 VisceraEyes wrote: I'm not scum bro, you're completely mistaken. But you know, feel free to keep not making any sense. You don't even have a case against me, you quoted a bunch of my posts and said "timing is a bitch" which doesn't mean anything without context. Now shut up, vote BC or you die overnight. I'm 100% serious here. Why didn't VE shoot WBG 3 town KP vs 2 Scum KP? | ||
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On March 01 2012 12:01 VisceraEyes wrote: Well, technically you and DocH did that. Anyway, does his logically inconsistent argument make him scum? And are you going to vote for him? If no or no, then you still haven't done much bro.  I never commented on his argument, I asked him to clarify it. didn't feel the need to comment it because it is bad enough to speak for itself | ||
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Scum medic seems like a bit much but I'm not gonna make assumptions. I'm second guessing myself way too much and I feel best about Dirkzor so I will be voting for him. I encourage everyone else to do the same. I will repost my old case on him and update it later when I am not so tired. ___________ Dirkzor RoL seems fine to lynch but a bit to easy. Unlike BH? On February 22 2012 06:01 Dirkzor wrote: @Chaoser now you're just argueing semantics... I called what Kita did double sided. I called what you did flip floppy. Basicly the same thing. And how can you compare my posts that was done 5-15 in into the game with someone made 12 hours later? You say that I don't take side. That is correct because I found both sides stupid and none of them particularly more scummy then then other. You called what chaoser did lying. Read the post before this one in Dirkzor's filter: On February 22 2012 05:56 Dirkzor wrote: I want to continue on Toad's case on Chaoser. Because Chaoser is lying! Read the whole case and chaoser defence here. Below is the end of that post. So it was AFTER you realized you had misread that you changed your vote? Not quite. + Show Spoiler + On February 21 2012 08:56 chaoser wrote: VE said he was voting for red as a policy lynch. He then criticizes red, not for his one liners, but by saying: That is a direct criticism of red's policy lynch push on tyrran. I never said that he accused redFF of being scum for supporting a PL, I'm only saying that he's criticizing redFF of doing something that he himself did as well (Putting votes on a policy lynch). That point is factual. At the same time, I understand the nuanced subtle difference between the two given VE's immediate switch from policy lynch to scum-read. That's just good pressure play. Either way, I want to clarify what actually happened so as to not misrepresent the situation. lol, this is scummy as fuck. ##vote: redFF In that post you are still arguing with VE/DrH about whether or not VE was being a hypocrite or not. Also in that post you vote for RedFF. Next post: You seems to have changed your mind about RedFF here. Next: This is were you realize something is wrong and you quoted the wrong dude. Some few post later: Now that the mixup have been cleared VE is suddenly a player doing good. While I admit that its not a huge issue I don't understand why you would lie about it? Why not just "I thought VE was being a hypocrite but then RedFF's posting turned to shit so I voted him. Later i realized I was wrong and VE was right." You didn't call him flip flopping. You used a strong word, lying, then backed off later. I don't see what is scummy about Chaoser misreading something and then making a posting mistake because of it. That seems more town to me than anything unless he is doing some incredibly complicated roleplay where he pretends to be unaware of what's going on and play badly. I've known Chaoser to be inactive and absentminded as town before so I'm not really shocked or upset by this, I don't think anyone really should be. Dirkzor spent the remainder of his filter tunneling BH, who is probably the easiest lynch I've ever seen. He's acting like a really bad village idiot or some kind of serial killer who is just trolling to draw people out. He is definitely worth a DT or a Vig. Dirk can tunnel BH as hard as he wants and whatever BH flips doesn't matter. If he flips town everyone will agree that BH was playing really bad and would have gotten lynched or shot anyway. If he flips scum then Dirk gets some town cred. If he flips third party of some sort then Dirk gets a little bit of town cred. He can say "I was close, at least we got the SK out of the way now, it could have been worse it could have been town". Dirkzor plays very wishy washy and conservative until Kitaman27 calls him out for it. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=303505&user=193595 The posts in this filter in which he is a town blue come across as far more natural, reactive, and there is clear progress in his thoughts. He doesn't ignore anybody and is pretty talkative. His posts in the Storm Mafia filter come across to me as more jilted and planned? I'm surprised he didn't call BH out on his behavior a bit before, he seems like the kind of player to try and foster a good pro-town atmosphere which he hasn't done in this game at all. Read Kitaman27's post on him for more analysis of his early game behavior: On February 22 2012 12:23 kitaman27 wrote: Dang it, I'm a sucker for blue claims. Funny to see the votes pile up on red after the claim, rather than before. On one hand, a mafia player who is set to die should always be claiming blue, but on the other, his claim ties up a potential roleblocker. Tracker is a tricky claim because even confirming it doesn't necessarily mean he isn't a mafia stalker or something. I'll be keeping my vote on him for the moment. Now to everyone else: I've enjoyed comedy hour with Jackal, but his filter is completely void of content. Not a single post showing he isn't just along for the ride. Toad appears to be going through post-Arkham depression or something. A lot of fluff and he isn't very willing to share his reads. These two statements by prpl completely contradict each other. You argue how you don't think red is scum, but you're willing to vote him to avoid no lynch? How does that make sense? If you're going to argue that he really is blue, then of course a no lynch would be more beneficial. How about push a different lynch if red isn't your priority? This is really poor from him. I know I already picked on Dirkzor for his language, but I'm going to do it again. "Hey guys. Look at me and my protown attitude!" Only scum say this. Lack of aggression and confidence. These are fair points. I wish Kitaman was more active but I don't remember him having a strong presence in the last game where he was town. I agree with the things he is saying here, this is the sort of thing I'm used to seeing from RoL. | ||
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A town counterclaim would put a lot of pressure on VE as scum especially if there are different specifics to the role that a scum fake claiming Vet would not be aware of. If VE is not the vet, his ploy makes little sense because as town you should fear getting shot too much to try to draw roleblocks, especially in a closed setup. | ||
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On February 27 2012 08:10 Dirkzor wrote: Agree. My point was basicly that I can't find a reason for scum to shoot jackal so I think it was a town hit. Forgot about this post. Dirk is very likely not scum. I was trying to draw out mafia to fakeclaim vigilante. If Dirk is scum, he would know that it was mafia work and encouraging the vig to come out makes no sense because he knows it isn't the vig that hit him. It's not a good idea for the vig to claim it though which is iffy. I don't see scum sheeping a town in this particular manner, if I'm a DT i'll check Dirkzor tonight just to be safe but after coming across this in the filter I'm laying off. | ||
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WBG claims he was protected by Syllo night 1. If VE is scum he could have hit WBG and supported his claim. This seems likely to me, it's a strategy I would have been alright with as scum or even tried myself. Repost: VisceraEyes The most obvious choice imo. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=313426&user=117978 I looked far back to find a game with VE as town and did. Responsibility Mafia. I noticed something that immediately stuck out to me as a scum player trying to imitate his own town meta. In RM VisceraEyes makes catchy posts when he calls out a scum. He will bold/color his posts, say it's some kind of special list, etc. In RM he is focused. He calls out one scum and backs his case up. It's not a fluff post. It's not a summary. This town VE doesn't bother with that kind of stuff. Scum VE in Arkham City posts similar lists, but instead of filling it with substance and focus he does this: On February 10 2012 07:42 VisceraEyes wrote: VisceraEyes Lynch List of Correctitude v2.0 Liquid`Sheth - His return to the thread from the busy days past has been less than impressive, to say the very least. He's only interested in saving his own life, not in finding and eliminating threats to town. As such, it pleases me greatly to see that he's (at least for now) our choice for lynch. Opz - A lurker - and a site-veteran lurker. He's on Jackal's list of phone-network buddies, but I haven't seen much in the way of finding scum from Opz. Every passing hour that he hasn't done shit in the thread is another reason we should hang this guy. hiro protagonist - This one's silence has now reached a deafening cacophony of scumminess to me. He's not looking for scum...or if he is, he's not sharing with the class. This one is tomorrow's lynch if he lives through the night (I hope he doesn't.) Kurumi - WBG entered today with an INSTANTANEOUS vote for Kurumi. Now, he hasn't claimed any kind of DT role or anything, but being a semi veteran of the site and a decent player, that's not surprising. But it's the kind of behavior I'd expect from a DT with a red check. I'll be looking into Kurumi in much greater detail, but for now he's on my lynch-list. VisceraEyes Watch-List of Vigilance Katina - Downgraded from my lynch-list for being constantly on my Sheth lynch unwaveringly. If she were a scumbuddy, I'd have expected at least a little resistance yesterday when I was pushing or at the very least today. However, something about her screams 'doing-bare-minimum-to-avoid-lynch'. I'm watching Katina like a hawk. Palmar - Again, unwaveringly on my Sheth lynch. Palmar has the honor of being the village idiot this game however, and that's not the kind of behavior I'm used to seeing from townPalmar post-D1. I have no idea what kind of game Palmar is playing, but I'm watching Palmar like a hawk. I actually hope he keeps trolling and we lynch him...but I'm not sold on him being scum. Third however? Dunno....EVER VIGILANT!!!! A long list of players with basic summaries of what may or may not make them suspicious is fucking USELESS. It's not a case, it doesn't start a bandwagon, it doesn't get you anywhere closer to lynching scum, it shows a lack of effort in picking one and making a convincing argument (because you can't) it shows a lack of focus and it seems to me you are just trying to imitate a similar style of play. But the substance is different. He argues with redFF but doesn't make a post summizing his case, making his points clearly in one spot. Instead he chooses to fill those "list" or whatever posts with more useless filler. On February 22 2012 18:56 VisceraEyes wrote: VisceraEyes Lynch List of Storm's End BloodyC0bbler - My complaints echo the complaints of players such as DocH and Syllogism...he's had plenty of opportunity to come look for scum - he hasn't. He placed a vote on redFF without saying whether he thought he was scum or not. I was less than satisfied with his responses to my posts, and I've been unimpressed with his effort so far in the game. I voted for this guy in L, and while I was herpin and a derpin, he was finding scum and establishing his innocence. wherebugsgo - WBG has similarly not been interested in finding scum. He called chaoser scum lightly at the beginning of the day, but it looked more like an excuse to get into a conversation with him than anything. This is directly after he just got done buddying him in his introduction post. Followed up with calling redFF bad ad nauseum. Very clear to not say scum - only very bad. Suddenly this all changes after red sheeps after Jackal? Sheeping is something scum and town do in equal parts - verily, many a veteran townies count on a few sheep to push their agendas. Claims that most of what red has done can be explained 'with scum motivations'. Fails to elaborate or support this idea. Just throws it out there.RebirthOfLegenD - my weakest read - I'm really only interested in showing RoL rope if he doesn't start looking for scum. This redFF wagon essentially pushed itself, and he's making it his MISSION to make it happen. I don't even know if RoL thinks red is scum or not. But it's pretty clear that he wants red to die. TODAY. I can support a lynch of any of these three players, my preference is WBG, followed by BC, with RoL being my least favorite choice. Useless summary. A lynch list is retarded it just makes you look like town. You can really just sum up other peoples arguments too, reword them a little, boom you look like you're helping. On February 22 2012 14:56 VisceraEyes wrote: DocH I'm intrigued by your ideas and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter. You don't need to announce that you agree with me if you're town. Just expand on my ideas or push them too. On February 23 2012 12:46 VisceraEyes wrote: FUCK Jackal - I'd had myself convinced it was Thursday all day - your appearance in the thread has reminded me that it's not. X( Well, while you're here (smashing all my dreams), how about you help me out with something. Can YOU explain what is townie about BC's behavior/defenses that had everyone unwilling to lynch him? I'm not seeing it. All I see are a few angrily and hastily thrown together posts which doesn't really much indicate town to me, although it does indicate null as fuck to me which taken with his behavior the rest of the day seems incriminating enough.... You seem uncertain and wishy washy about BC but at the same time very very upset he wasn't lynched? Why is that? If you're town you only have reason to be disappointed that he wasn't lynched if you are pretty proof-positive he is scum, especially with a player of BC's potential. The early game behavior I'm not too awfully alarmed by other than your friendly attitude. You are giving out compliments and buddying up with people a lot which isn't something I see a lot of town players take the effort to do. Doubtlessly, you've learned a bit from Arkham City. However, the early game behavior doesn't jump off the page as helpful pro-town shit either and your behavior after the flip is very concerning: very defensive and overreacting to the situation. I really doubt I'm 3/3 here but I try not to think too much about the scum team as I do about individual scum. When I think about the scum team I worry too much about if they would bus, are arguments fake, etc. etc. etc. and I go insane. It's much easier to just analyze people as individuals and determine whether or not I find them to be scummy. [/QUOTE] To add: since this case, VE has yet to my knowledge to make posts in-line with his town meta. If you read his Responsibility Mafia just the way posts are styled and phrased is much different. He makes less posts and his posts are longer, he's less reactive. The way he keeps announcing "I"m gonna do this analysis it's soooo good just wait" is pretty silly. Town would just post the analysis. Scum would post it in the QT and work on it and once everyone has input they post it. | ||
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On March 01 2012 15:36 DoctorHelvetica wrote: I think we should lynch VisceraEyes today. If VE flips town, focus all nighttime KP on WBG or layabout. WBG claims he was protected by Syllo night 1. If VE is scum he could have hit WBG and supported his claim. This seems likely to me, it's a strategy I would have been alright with as scum or even tried myself. Repost: To add: since this case, VE has yet to my knowledge to make posts in-line with his town meta. If you read his Responsibility Mafia just the way posts are styled and phrased is much different. He makes less posts and his posts are longer, he's less reactive. The way he keeps announcing "I"m gonna do this analysis it's soooo good just wait" is pretty silly. Town would just post the analysis. Scum would post it in the QT and work on it and once everyone has input they post it. EBWOP, put in spoilers to conserve space on the page | ||
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DoctorHelvetica
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On March 01 2012 15:37 Toadesstern wrote: Oh and DocH since you brought it up again that I might be roleblocked twice. I shot yesterday and I failed (myself) the night before that resulting in not shooting. So mafia did not need to roleblock me twice, once would have been enough. I merely mentioned it to make you guys understand what happened and why I posted that one: I asked RoL after that nightpost why he's still alive becaue I thought I shot, turned out I did not and I had to make a freaky explanation why I said that + Show Spoiler + On February 27 2012 07:09 Toadesstern wrote: RoL buddy, why you still alive? On February 27 2012 07:23 layabout wrote: Toad, how could he answer your question? On February 27 2012 07:30 Toadesstern wrote: he's not supposed to. It was rhetorical and I'm just saying it looks really strange that we have not a single suspicious guy flipping because of vigs. At least both syllo and Jackal look like mafia work. No hit on Night 1? I believe you now. | ||
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DoctorHelvetica
United States15034 Posts
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DoctorHelvetica
United States15034 Posts
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DoctorHelvetica
United States15034 Posts
The most useless kind of lynch is a last minute switch that is really easy and safe to hop on the bandwagon for. If there's a highly polarized lynch, the dead information + voting lists can provide a lot, even if the people accused are all innocent (then you can see who's manipulating just out of site). Tons of bandwagons means scum gets to decide. I've been accused over and over for not pushing my cases or caring about the lynch. Now that I want to push one lynch I'm scummy? Why would I, as town, not want to see everybody vote for what I think is scum or will move town in the best position to win the game? Saying "I'm town" is not a good way to convince anyone of anything and it won't make me lose confidence. Why don't you convince me to vote for WBG over you instead? | ||
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DoctorHelvetica
United States15034 Posts
I believe Toad's claim considering his breadcrumbing. His play is awful and forcing people to expand on bad arguments is a good way to fish out scum. They have to make wrong arguments and the more they do it the more obvious it becomes. I think either you or WBG should be lynched today and I've yet to decide what I should push. I do not want to lynch WBG today. | ||
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DoctorHelvetica
United States15034 Posts
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DoctorHelvetica
United States15034 Posts
On March 01 2012 17:20 VisceraEyes wrote: Well at least we're in agreement there - though your boy Toad doesn't share the sentiment. Yes, I think Toad is scum. He exhibits bad logic and conspiracy theories in any game he's in, but this game is particularly bad. Also his use of the word 'confirmed' scum when describing myself and RoL nailed it home for me. He doesn't typically throw around 'confirmed' as a buzz-word and I think he was using it to try and manipulate town. He let Palmar get away with claiming his role in BC:AC and even said "i know what palmars doin dont worry" and PM ended up being third party. He handled the situation with an astounding lack of sense and confidence that seems in line with what's going on here | ||
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DoctorHelvetica
United States15034 Posts
Vote for WBG. He was manipulative. Look at how he buddied syllo day 1 then got masoned with him? Wasn't there a scum mason in L? WBG has been completely unaggressive unless his aggression was uncontroversial. If anyone rereads my case on him day 2 and your case on him Day 3 it's damning. | ||
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DoctorHelvetica
United States15034 Posts
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DoctorHelvetica
United States15034 Posts
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DoctorHelvetica
United States15034 Posts
On March 01 2012 18:03 Toadesstern wrote: I don't make scummy posts. I make weird posts that gets people talking. There's a fine line between those two :p you make very scummy posts, stop patting yourself on the back pretending to be helpful when you aren't | ||
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DoctorHelvetica
United States15034 Posts
So you have a day hit or something like that? GG scum win then Lynch WBG/layabout/BC and one of the inactives probably Jitsu or risk.nuke/cwave | ||
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DoctorHelvetica
United States15034 Posts
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DoctorHelvetica
United States15034 Posts
Layabout Jitsu BC VE (?, possible fake argument) Any remaining town NK go onto RoL tonight DT the inactive players like Tyrran, risk.nuke (cwave?), jitsu, etc. | ||
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DoctorHelvetica
United States15034 Posts
VE and WBG are both scummy as shit Day 1 but VE improves considerably. Everyone reread his case on WBG and read Ver's guide. VE nailed him. however, I can't shake the fucking weird jumping around and seeming inconsistencies in his argument. VE needs to demonstrate how he went from toad being "easy lynch" to scum after Toades claims very believably VE and WBG's argument can be constructed. 2 guys fling shit at eachother and someone else gets lynched. One gets lynched, the other looks good. Don't buy into it. There is no such thing as town cred. | ||
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DoctorHelvetica
United States15034 Posts
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DoctorHelvetica
United States15034 Posts
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DoctorHelvetica
United States15034 Posts
On March 13 2012 08:28 VisceraEyes wrote: Kita was putting in effort. DocH was putting in effort. Dirkzor was I think of everyone, I'm the most upset about the showing from BC. Once I was sure he was scum, I kept having this irrational fear of him ruining everything for me. Luckily for me, it never came...but that's an unfortunate side-effect of being anally excavated by scumBC before. I'd like to apologize to DocH - I told my wife the night that DocH was pushing me hard that I poured on the 'offended townie' a little thick and I was afraid I made him feel bad. I've since realized that it was all just part of his game, but I still know I appealed to emotion pretty hard. My bad dude - quit being so good at the game! if i was good we wouldnt have had 3 mislynches in a row this game was embarrassing for me | ||
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DoctorHelvetica
United States15034 Posts
It's so frustrating to look back and see how right I was about BC RoL and WBG and then let myself get distracted by them and do the easy mislynches | ||
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DoctorHelvetica
United States15034 Posts
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DoctorHelvetica
United States15034 Posts
On March 14 2012 12:35 BloodyC0bbler wrote: Whoever went around reporting posts should come clean now imo. Wouldn't flamewheel know or is reporting anonymous? It wasn't me in any case. Probably someone mad at the game or someone not even participating | ||
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