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On February 14 2012 10:02 prplhz wrote:
@Probulous
Why don't you want to post about an argument if you think it is valid? I'm saying "Stop using meta argument because it's quite bad at this stage of the game" and you're saying "I will posting about it but I will still use it because it's a good argument". That makes no sense at all, why wouldn't you want to post about an argument that you think is good?
You didn't even read my defense did you?
What does this "evidence" point at? It is easy to say "He is very lightly role fishing at SpiritClown and this is something scum could have a motivation for doing" but you're not done with your case before you've also said "and townie wouldn't very lightly role fish at SpiritClown". And you can't say that because that isn't true.
I'm not posting in the thread who I have PM'd and who I haven't PM'd so stop asking. It's between me and them, and I hope they don't say anything either.
For those not reading IRC, I went over this with Prpl in there. He is correct that the actions could be motivated by a townie so there is no real case against him by me. I still think the actions are scummy and are not worth the chaos it has caused but that doesn't make him mafia.
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On February 14 2012 10:01 sinani206 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 14 2012 09:57 Grackaroni wrote:On February 14 2012 09:56 Probulous wrote:
Because to me someone sending a PM to a guy who is playing his first game asking for his role without sending similar PM's to more experienced players is scummy as hell. It looks like he is trying to buddy up and influence the newbie.
A townie would send PM's to everyone or ask in the thread. Scum don't want to arose the suspicion of senior players so newbs are easy targets. That is why it bothers me. Now I know the evidence is thin at best which is why I am trying to find some more, no-one else is coming forward though so I have to keep believing he only sent one to SpiritClown. Well, why SpiritClown then? The only justification I can see is that he is a newb.
I am sure I am missing something but this is all I got. Help? He already admitted that he sent some to other new players in IRC. But why one in PM and others in IRC?
Don't even bother, I tried asking and got a shitstorm instead.
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So who is hiding then?
I want to split Mr Not A Smurf (zeurg) in half. Who do you want to swing?
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Well that was a shit night. Bad luck BH and layabout, you obviously played too well.
On February 14 2012 21:15 SpiritClown wrote:Happy Valentine's Day guys and gals! :D So who should we be lynching today? ^^ And sorry laya and Blazing  And we lost a doctor... so sad
You scum bro?
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On February 15 2012 07:05 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2012 06:52 Lanaia wrote:On February 15 2012 06:11 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:
Sinani signed on just as I signed off, so I didn't see him personally do anything supsicious in IRC... so I can't do anything about that. I'll wait for him to post, if I feel he's being explicitly scummy I'll add a vote on him.
I will say though that Lanaia and prplhz were pretty much united through the last IRC log. If one of them flips scum, I can almost guarantee that that's the wolfpack... and with Sinani being cloudy between that exchange and the time I signed on, I have him in my sights too. I just think it's silly that people think he's scum solely because of what he's done in regards to asking roles. It just seems a bit overboard, no? I'm not saying he's scum because of that. In fact I even told him that he was in the right for doing that. I'm saying if either of you flip scum, the other probably is too.
Maybe but if somone is collecting votes for reasoning that doesn't make sense to you, it should be obvious that you would defend them right? I mean you could be wrong and they could be scum but they could be town. So if they are being lynched for a dumb reason you should sure as hell say something about it. Doesn't mean you are on the same team.
I don't get scum vibes from Lanaia, it would have been too easy to jump onto the Prpl wagon yesterday, or say nothing.
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I don't know what to think about sinani so I am going to propose a different candidate for lynch
zeurg
He is actively lurking and refusing to contribute.
[22:45:08] *** Joins: zeurg (webchat@c-174-59-222-135.hsd1.pa.comcast.net)
[23:14:23] <Mattchew> how long has zeurg been here
[23:14:46] <zeurg> I missed a yesterday so I've been catching up on reading and stuff
[23:15:06] <zeurg> Completely forgot about this
Note he was on IRC for just under half an hour before Mattchew mentioned his name. Then 23 seconds later he posts. He was reading the thread as he says but he was obviously reading IRC too. Anyway when pushed to contribute he says nothing.
[23:15:18] <Mattchew> zeurg you scum?
[23:15:26] <zeurg> no im a townie
[23:15:35] <zeurg> fo sho
Now it is nice to know he is apparently a townie but this is the last thing he says until
[00:42:04] *** Quits: zeurg (webchat@c-174-59-222-135.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) (Quit: Page closed)
Nothing for 1.5 hrs and then he quits. This was in the middle of the prpl shitstorm and he says nothing.I even tried to get him to talk in a private channel. Unfortunately it isn't logged, sorry guys. But all I said was that he should start posting but I got no response.
[00:43:53] <Probulous> PS, I have been trying to get zeurg to post through a private chat but no answer. As soon as I sent another post he left IRC. He is deliberately avoiding posing.
Now I know this is his first game but he is actively trying to avoid posting. He doesn't want to contribute and doesn't like being questioned. A townie would post when pushed, they should not be scared of making mistakes. I make them, even the great and mighty palmar makes them (though he may dispute it). Only mafia have a reason to try to avoid the spotlight in this manner.
He is currently not adding anything to the discussion and is coasting along in the shadows. Mafia will be smiling after killing a leading townie and our doctor. Well time to bring them into the light.
##vote: zeurg
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On February 15 2012 06:58 Probulous wrote:Well that was a shit night. Bad luck BH and layabout, you obviously played too well. Show nested quote +On February 14 2012 21:15 SpiritClown wrote:Happy Valentine's Day guys and gals! :D So who should we be lynching today? ^^ And sorry laya and Blazing And we lost a doctor... so sad You scum bro?
Prpl pointed out to me in IRC how stupid this is so I am retracting it. If this needs explanation, ask.
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On February 14 2012 19:04 Kenpachi wrote:
Night starts suck.
IM TOWNIE
LETS GET THIS SHIT GOING
FUCK IRC. THREAD ACTIVITY NAO
I agree that IRC sucks compared to thread activity. So would you like to actually participate? What have you got so far?
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Ok I seem to be having a one-way conversation with myself in here, which my doctor says is not good for my health. So in a bid to try and get someone to join the conversation, here is my list of lurkers that need to post more in thread. IRC is all well and good but when it comes to working out your alignment IRC is a bitch. So do us a favour and post in here. If you are not posting your cases and thoughts in here you are not helping. Vigs as far as I am concerned you can fire away...
Lurkers - Not the good kind
- zeurg
- Bluelightz
- rgTheWhoCares
- SpiritClown
- sinani206
- Kenpachi
- Grackaroni
There are others who have not posted much but what they have posted has felt townie to me. These guys I can't work out (except zeurg, you're going down).
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Thanks for posting Grack.
I would like to point out that you PM'd me asking my thoughts on Bluelightz. You also jumped into IRC asking about Bluelightz a little after Lanaia and I were discussing him. So this is a little like the pot/kettle/black thing. Reading again carefully.
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Holy hell I got you two mixed up, he was PM asking about you
Here it is
Original Message From Bluelightz: Show nested quote +Original Message From Probulous: I'm not sure on Grack. I don't like his tunneling of Mattchew, I have a town read on both Palmar and Matt and he targeted them. Paperscraps is apparently confirmed town to Palmar. I don't get that but whatever, that means Grack is focused on targeting townies. Now I can't tell whether that is because he is just plain bad or whether he is scum. He needs to post in thread more. Just like you. So that leaves me with nothing worthy of a lynch. Hence my voting for a lurker that I know is reading everything but not posting. I can't analyse IRC, it give an impresion but that is all. You want brownie points with me, post in thread. Original Message From Bluelightz:
Prob what are your thoughts on lynching Grack? Ahh, okay thanks for replying. Will PM again if there is new topics
Sorry bro 
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On February 15 2012 12:31 Grackaroni wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2012 12:28 Grackaroni wrote:On February 15 2012 12:28 Probulous wrote:
Thanks for posting Grack.
I would like to point out that you PM'd me asking my thoughts on Bluelightz. You also jumped into IRC asking about Bluelightz a little after Lanaia and I were discussing him. So this is a little like the pot/kettle/black thing. Reading again carefully. I haven't PM'd you all game. Check again  In fact I checked the IRC logs too. the first thing I said when I finished reading the chat was my opinion of Bluelightz. I never asked your opinion on him in IRC either.
Yeah it was more the timing than anything else. It was so weird you jumping in right after Lanaia and I had been talking about him. Given my mix up on the PMs, I retract the kettle statement. I don't know what is up with my reading this game 
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Thanks for posting your reads Paperscraps.
Am I correct in saying that you think both Sentinel and SpiritClown are mafia because they claimed to be mafia?
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mderg doesn't look like mafia to me. Still reading.
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On February 15 2012 18:55 Kenpachi wrote:l0l its ironic how i never followed my own words I was too tired though so i went to sleep for the day and started my hw. Man, IRC setups are LAME. Just getitng lines of text you never want to read. Show nested quote +On February 15 2012 14:58 Lanaia wrote:
Well, fellas, I'm going to vote mderg.
You know why I'm going to vote mderg?
To coerce him into talking, of course.
mderg, how do you feel now? You're being voted.
Everywhere, you've said nothing of substance.
Everywhere, you haven't contributed. Get back in the game or my vote isn't moving. That's a promise. WTF? you're a semi vet i dont even know why you are fake pressuring a lurker. i thought youd learn by now that ITS NOT EVEN PRESSURE. But honestly, you're never bold in your actions so i cant say much about this except that its fucking terrible Oh ya, PM me if you want to talk to me on skype or IRC or TL. I will ignore all PMs that are straight up spam like this one. I will answer in public: no
I don't think Kenpachi is scum either.
Oh and Lanaia, very disappointed. I pointed out the same thing to Sentinel yesterday. You should know there is no point in "pressure" voting someone. You vote them and let them respond. You totally undermine your case here. I haven't seen anything scummy from Kenpachi aside from lurking but he what he has said seem "enthusiastic". Plus he noted your weak pressure vote. From what little reading I have done, Kenpachi either trolls or lurks most games, so this is not unusual. So no, Kenpachi is looking more town than scum right now.
Finally it looks like the zeurg man and Hufy are geniunely afk and will probably be mod-killed. Putting together my reads now.
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Sentinel
His first major contribution to the thread was in regards to my request for Prpl’s PMs. Here he writes
On February 14 2012 10:01 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:
The whole point of PM's is to gain trust. Now I just got here and I will NOT read 10 pages of argumentative text because I just did that for history class, but if I were prplhz I'd be PM'ing noobs to see if they give anything away, or they play legitimately. Experienced people can hide their true intonations.
This rang scummy to me. This is basically stating you support fishing for information from newbs. I have made it clear that I don’t like it (others clearly disagree), but this caught my eye.
Then he goes and says this
On February 15 2012 06:11 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:I will say though that Lanaia and prplhz were pretty much united through the last IRC log. If one of them flips scum, I can almost guarantee that that's the wolfpack... and with Sinani being cloudy between that exchange and the time I signed on, I have him in my sights too.
On February 15 2012 07:05 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:
I'm not saying he's scum because of that. In fact I even told him that he was in the right for doing that. I'm saying if either of you flip scum, the other probably is too.
This is really bad logic. Just because Lanaia defends Prpl’s actions does not mean they are on the same team. Sure it would make Lanaia look scummy if Prpl flipped red but here he says he would straight up vote for her. He would lynch her based off a prpl flip.
He takes up the argument in IRC
[22:27:05] <[UoN]Sentinel> if prplhz was struck down right this moment
[22:27:08] <[UoN]Sentinel> and flipped scum
[22:27:14] <[UoN]Sentinel> my vote would immediately go to lanaia
[22:27:18] <[UoN]Sentinel> and vice versa
[22:28:17] <[UoN]Sentinel> because they defend each other
Prpl never defended Lanaia, when asked he says
[22:30:19] <[UoN]Sentinel> right before sinani started talking about the pistachios
The only thing that Prpl mentions about Lanaia is
[00:41:46] <derpladee> you guys are morons lol
[00:41:53] <derpladee> like every single one of you except Lanaia here
Which is hardly defending given no-one was attacking Lanaia.
Sentinel has made a concerted effort to link Lanaia and prpl such that one’s alignment will confirm the other. Then he goes and undermines my case against zeurg right after I posted it. A vote for someone is worth nothing if you give them an ready made excuse not to reply. This is what Sentinel writes
This unsupported wouldn't be a strong case. I probably do something like that all the time...I'm going to cut off there. I'm still thinking that if it's zeurg's first time he could just be blue and scared of revealing this. I'll put FoS on him and cut him a little break because he's new, but I too expect to hear from him.
Sentinel supports fishing for information from newbs, tried really hard to link a Prpl flip with Lanaia and actively undermined my efforts to get zeurg to post.
##Vote [UoN]Sentinel
Sorry bro as much fun as you are, you rolled mafia this game.
PS: This is irrelevant to the case so it is in spoilers but I had a giggle
+ Show Spoiler +On February 13 2012 09:15 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:Idea for IRC since it's being logged: Don't make
posts like this
where you type individual clauses
at a timeBut rather talk like this, preferably in 1 sentence or more. Even if you're not used to it (I always type in fragments too  ) at least make an attempt for this one. That way it's easier to scroll through and find whatever post you're looking for.
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probe probulous
I love it when you say that 
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^^ I am still waiting for him to post his reasons for that. I asked him IRC and he said he would. He even said it was a stupid mistake and he still hasn't said anything.
@Palmar:
You left IRC before I could respond to you. I don't know why I thought you said dangerous, the word you used was worrying. Here is the exchange.
[00:23:46] <Bluelightz> Palmar what do you think of Double Lynching Zeurg & Sentinel based on Sentinel's defense of him? [00:23:57] <Palmar> I think that's terrible Bluelightz [00:23:57] <Bluelightz> Oh XLVII lol [00:24:00] <derpladee> and i pushed 3 mislynches in SNMMIV [00:24:21] <Palmar> You can never deduce anything about anyone's alignment from someone else [00:24:27] <Bluelightz> kk [00:24:29] <Palmar> that's giving mafia cards [00:24:31] <derpladee> only sentinel can do that [00:24:44] <Palmar> also, I don't think those two people are the most worrying figures
You seemed to imply that Sentinel and Zeurg were not the most worrying figures and that you had others on your list. At first I thought you meant you had two people who were more worrying but now I read again you could have just meant these two were not worth the effort. Given sinani has done nothing, I would hardly call him worrying, is he the person you had in mind when you wrote this?
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There is no SpiritWolf, you seek the Clown...
Go west and you will find what you are looking for
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Alright everyone, I am leaving now. I haven't heard anything from Sentinel except that he will likely post a defense. There is still about 9hrs to go but I will not be logging back onto TL. Ive been on here all day (Aus time) and no one has convinced me to change to my vote. Besides, we have a plurality lynch so it is not like I am preventing you guys from choosing someone else.
See you tomorrow.
PS: Paperscraps, explain your ninja vote. Don't think I didn't notice.
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EPT
