Sleeper Cell Mafia II

On January 26 2012 04:12 bumatlarge wrote:
By the by, if I get lynched day 1 and I flip DT, please don't ignore my reads

On January 26 2012 12:22 Radfield wrote:
/confirm




First things first, please do not do this. Consider: Mafia do not know who their partners are. Therefore, high up on the priority list of the mafia is figuring out who the other members are. We need to not let this happen easily. The mafia have access to several pieces of information we do not, most specifically the number of mafia in the game. Players popping out and saying they think there are X amount of mafia are immediately getting a note in my scum book. Why? It's one way for a mafia player to indicate he is mafia to the rest of the crew, without raising suspicion. Makes sense? So no speculation on mafia numbers please, at least not right now.

Second, mafia have very limited forms of communication this game, and from the looks of the Inception agent role, we can assume that town has some way to view their messages. This means mafia have to be extremely careful with what they write, so blatant things like lets kill X tomorrow are probably out. So mafia need a means to try to indicate to their brethren who should be getting hit. Imagine I am scum, I want to make sure that my buddies don't accidently send in hits on players I think are scummy, I want them to send in the hits on people I think seem like sure town. So what am I going to do? I'm going to repeatedly hammer it home in thread that I think Player Z is sure town. If there is general consensus among the group that player Z is town, he is a great target for mafia to lump in on.

We need to ensure this does not happen. Therefore I propose that NO ONE call anyone else town. Players are either scummy, very scummy, definitely scum, OR not scum. That is all. If you think someone is almost for sure town, you still just have to call them 'not scum'.

Benefits: Stops mafia from finding clear night-kill targets, and increases the chance of them shooting themselves.

Cons: Possibly leaves us low on town leaders. Certain players may spend too much time going after obvious townies.

Likewise, we should not be making medic lists. If you think a particular player should receive protection, that's probably cool, but no listing 3 or 4 people. In this game, that's just giving mafia a clear list of targets to shoot at, which is exactly what they need(a list). Medics in this scenario should be protecting whomever is most likely to die anyways, as there is no WIFOMing your medic protect around.

Third, and this is straight out of resistance mafia, no talking about mafia strats. We simply do not talk about optimal mafia moves, or likely moves, as that is simply a way for mafia to galvanize their actions together. In a game with minimal mafia interaction, we need to ensure that they cannot use the thread to disseminate information

So this game we talk about townie strats and townie moves, not mafia ones. On the flip side we do not call people likely town or town, we call them not scum or varying degrees of scum. Thoughts? Agreement or Disagreement?

On January 26 2012 12:46 Navillus wrote:
I agree with Radfield though I wish you hadn't mentioned the possibility of the inception agent seeing their messages, I agree that they probably would realize that but now they know for sure, and usually I say assume mafia is playing optimally but this is different because any noob scums aren't in communication to vet scums and so might have slipped up. Obviously we can't not talk about what mafia is likely to do at all though so basically I'm saying just be very careful with what you post about what we might have/do and they might have/do, and people who post a lot about that are very suspicious as that would be an easy way to transfer info.

On January 26 2012 12:57 Radfield wrote:


Not sure I follow. The idea is that you shouldn't be calling anyone town or probably town. You should either call them scummy(or some degree of scummy) or 'Not Scum'. ie: Don't reveal the degree to which you think someone is town, as that is a way for mafia to communicate, and a way for mafia to galvanize their hits onto townies.

Or were you asking something else?

On January 27 2012 01:56 Radfield wrote:
You have to be joking Cwave -_-

On the bright side, Cwave was kinda bad during election mafia too(he tunneled me all game), and threw around pretty random accusations. Tragically it's par for the course so far.

Very possible his 5 words thing is a scum-slip, but also possible that he pulled it from hesmyrr's post as he said.


Jackal, I'd like to see you post at least 5 or 6 more times during Day1.

On January 27 2012 02:13 Radfield wrote:


Yeah I can keep track if you like :D

You have a tendency to coast as scum. This is something you surely agree with. I'd like to see you not coast.




Agreed. Blazinghand what other games have you played with Cwave?

On January 27 2012 04:25 Zephirdd wrote:
Let me summarize the plan for you guys.

Don't worry about semantics, just try to not create leaders. This way scum won't have a solid target.

Why is it so hard to understand something that simple?

On January 27 2012 04:34 GGQ wrote:


<3

On January 27 2012 05:03 Zephirdd wrote:


Let me exemplify what he means, as it seems you couldn't understand from his last example.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=298603&currentpage=15#287

This is what should not be done. Go ahead, defend someone and call him town(or "not scum"), that's not a problem. The problem would be to throw "this guy is town" left and right on the thread. The problem would be to say "Since this guy is saying this, then I trust him" instead of making your own analysis.

Come on, he basically asks us to not create useful lists and to not sheep. I do agree that his choice of wording is horrible, but that's what I can get from it. It's simple, really.

On January 27 2012 07:55 bumatlarge wrote:
And on that note, it's no where near certain that cwave slipped, he just might have done his homework.

(from last game)


iGrok didn't put this in the OP so it is very possible this role isn't in the game, or at least it functions very differently.

On January 27 2012 10:16 Zephirdd wrote:
Jackal, you do realize that you need to post that on the voting thread
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=306315

right?

On January 27 2012 23:04 Radfield wrote:
Yeah, I think Cwave is a bad lynch right now. I also think Navillus is a poor lynch, his posting doesn't strike me as scummy.



You're right, and I kinda wish I hadn't posted that. However I doubt it will be particularly useful for mafia. The only reason I posted it in the first place was to try and illustrate my point, which several people thought(and still think!) was just about semantics.



Can you please point out what you're talking about? I'm worried that you're still talking about this paragraph:



Do you honestly not understand the point I was trying to make? And where is the so called breadcrumb in this post? And to what effect?

On January 27 2012 23:31 Radfield wrote:
The more I think about this Jackal, the more I think you're being deliberately obtuse. You've slowly been ramping up to this point(that I must be scum), yet with no reason to do so.

You're stating that I'm am absolutely scum, when there is basically zero reason for you to think that. You are also deliberately refusing to adequately explain yourself, because that would show your entire point to be invalid.

On January 28 2012 01:25 Blazinghand wrote:
I legitimately spent some time not calling out Meapak just to see how long he'd lurk without being called out. It turns out that amount of time is "literally more than a day". He's going to come back and tell us how he was busy, he needs to catch up on the thread, etc, and then he's gonna try to half-ass some analysis out close enough to the deadline that it won't change anything then comfortably lodge himself into a wagon.

Except instead we're gonna hang him

On January 28 2012 03:39 Radfield wrote:
You're either being obtuse by refusing to explain to me why you think I am scum, or I suppose I am obtuse for failing to understand where you have laid out your problems.

Assigning varying degrees of scumminess is ALWAYS useful. It happens every game, and I don't understand how you can object to it. Lets say I have 4 players I think are scum, obviously I don't think they are equally likely to be scum. They all have degrees of scumminess, and I'm going to indicate that when I post my reads. What are you even arguing here?

Can someone else please explain to me what Jackal is objecting to, because I really don't see it(or understand it).

On January 28 2012 05:17 Radfield wrote:



That makes much more sense, and actually gives me an idea to why the line put you off. Realize that I probably spent about 3 seconds writing that line.

I disagree that the line "don't call others town" would have done the same purpose. It likely would have for some people, but look at the sheer volume of people who misunderstood my post, DESPITE me putting in the extra examples, etc. I strive for clarity in my posts(and I obviously failed hard with that one) and I tried to make my point crystal clear. That is the reason that line exists. It's not a code, it's not a breadcrumb, it's just an example in an effort to illustrate my point.

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Look, just forget about that, and take my posting as a whole. If you still feel like this is somehow scum-radfield, then fine, but please don't vote me on the basis of one throw-away line - A throw away line that no one else(that i can tell) even finds scummy.

On January 29 2012 22:15 Refallen wrote:
I voted him because he obviously had some sort of role related reason why he was asking people to vote. And since scum has no special powers, I figured he was a blue and thus I voted him...?

How is that scummy? The fuck?

On January 30 2012 03:50 redFF wrote:

Why'd you ask this question?


Jackal is probably scum btdubz

On January 30 2012 04:20 redFF wrote:

I'm a dumbass

On January 30 2012 11:15 redFF wrote:
FOS jackal for posting in the other game but not this one

On January 30 2012 10:42 Hesmyrr wrote:
I'm still not sure if he is really argumentative townie or scum. I really should meta him but can't really be bothered to do so at the moment, maybe after I lynch bumatlarge.

On January 31 2012 05:41 Lanaia wrote:

Agreed.

I know I'm suspecting people on rad's wagon, but he's a good player. I wouldn't lynch him d1. Also, he felt obviously town to me so I couldn't really understand why all those people were on him.

Reasons I think bum is scum:


I was avoiding parroting rad here.
+ Show Spoiler +

This doesn't feel like it comes from a town mindset. Sure, he was trying to avoid getting me lynched, but...

He shouldn't want to lynch someone he has no proper read on over me. That's something that feels scummy. If he thinks I'm wishywashy as both town and scum, why would he bother lynching people with no proper reads over me? I can't make sense of that as it's illogical. I would have been a better lynch than radfield as he's a much much much better scumhunter than I am.



Jokes can still be used as crumbsssssss! The bolded is something I feel is WIFOM. You could be that blatant as scum because "oh, no one would ever actually suspect me because that would be stupid for scum to do."
In this post, he says "Rad was far from clear town." But he also says "Look at who you think is likely townie, and see if anyone voted for them. Analyze that person, and try to catch backwards logic. If you do, chances are they are scum trying to make a safe vote."
It feels to me like he was trying to avoid people looking at rad's wagon.
Some people have done that. I thought rad was town, and as such, I did look back at the wagon, as did a couple others (red, etc).


This post is scummy. Deflecting attention off himself and onto Cwave when Cwave wasn't going to be lynched today, and with no reason. You can't just deflect off yourself and onto someone else with no substance. I think the winking face throws me off, but I don't understand why he posted this.

It seems to me bum had some idea about rad being an inception agent, refused to say anything, and let him get lynched whilst being on his wagon:

Bum's response to hesmyrr is overkill. His reply to my not liking him saying it was rad's fault was also overkill. The things Hesmyrr said about my pointing it out are things I agree with strongly.


This post literally made no sense in the place in the thread it was. I don't really understand why he even bothered saying it. Why were we making him mad? Because we thought he's scum?

He says a lot of the things people ask are pointless which is kind of silly, because it helps to generate discussion, which is important to the game of mafia.
Tell me if you want more out of me, Cwave. Moving onto my reasons for you now.

On January 31 2012 05:41 Lanaia wrote:

Agreed.

I know I'm suspecting people on rad's wagon, but he's a good player. I wouldn't lynch him d1. Also, he felt obviously town to me so I couldn't really understand why all those people were on him.

Reasons I think bum is scum:


I was avoiding parroting rad here.
+ Show Spoiler +

This doesn't feel like it comes from a town mindset. Sure, he was trying to avoid getting me lynched, but...

He shouldn't want to lynch someone he has no proper read on over me. That's something that feels scummy. If he thinks I'm wishywashy as both town and scum, why would he bother lynching people with no proper reads over me? I can't make sense of that as it's illogical. I would have been a better lynch than radfield as he's a much much much better scumhunter than I am.



Jokes can still be used as crumbsssssss! The bolded is something I feel is WIFOM. You could be that blatant as scum because "oh, no one would ever actually suspect me because that would be stupid for scum to do."
In this post, he says "Rad was far from clear town." But he also says "Look at who you think is likely townie, and see if anyone voted for them. Analyze that person, and try to catch backwards logic. If you do, chances are they are scum trying to make a safe vote."
It feels to me like he was trying to avoid people looking at rad's wagon.
Some people have done that. I thought rad was town, and as such, I did look back at the wagon, as did a couple others (red, etc).


This post is scummy. Deflecting attention off himself and onto Cwave when Cwave wasn't going to be lynched today, and with no reason. You can't just deflect off yourself and onto someone else with no substance. I think the winking face throws me off, but I don't understand why he posted this.

It seems to me bum had some idea about rad being an inception agent, refused to say anything, and let him get lynched whilst being on his wagon:

Bum's response to hesmyrr is overkill. His reply to my not liking him saying it was rad's fault was also overkill. The things Hesmyrr said about my pointing it out are things I agree with strongly.


This post literally made no sense in the place in the thread it was. I don't really understand why he even bothered saying it. Why were we making him mad? Because we thought he's scum?

He says a lot of the things people ask are pointless which is kind of silly, because it helps to generate discussion, which is important to the game of mafia.
Tell me if you want more out of me, Cwave. Moving onto my reasons for you now.

On January 31 2012 09:28 redFF wrote:
Jackal tomorrow.

On January 31 2012 12:17 Lanaia wrote:
I don't think jackal's scum. I'll be back in just over an hour. Making the trip back to dorms. Anything you guys need out of me before daystart?

On February 01 2012 08:12 Blazinghand wrote:


Don't worry your play otherwise this game has been exemplary-- one minor error in a history of solid play can be overlooked.

On February 01 2012 10:48 redFF wrote:
lets lynch Jackal
##Vote Jackal

On February 01 2012 11:15 redFF wrote:
If I was scum I wouldn't know you were the truth since I wouldn't know who my buddies were.

On February 01 2012 12:29 redFF wrote:
anyone wanna discuss the nokill?

On February 01 2012 12:40 redFF wrote:
If i'm scum then vote me jackal.

On February 01 2012 23:29 Refallen wrote:
I'm not the one calling out lurkers; and unlike him, I actually voted for bumatlarge without a pre-wagon already forming on him.

On January 31 2012 13:41 Refallen wrote:
Yeah jackal tomorrow.
And Lanaia I don't know wtf you're smoking I said I don't think you or BH are scum.

On January 31 2012 08:14 Refallen wrote:
Looks like I survive today.
Fwiw I dont think Lanaia or blazinghand is town.

Gonna write up a case when I get back from school! Stay tuned!

On February 01 2012 07:49 Refallen wrote:
Well fuck, I meant to type " I don't think you or BH are scum . What you get from posing on an iPhone.

On January 31 2012 08:14 Refallen wrote:
Looks like I survive today.
Fwiw I dont think Lanaia or blazinghand is town.

Gonna write up a case when I get back from school! Stay tuned!

On February 02 2012 02:04 Hesmyrr wrote:
Jackal. If you are so certain Refallen is scum, why aren't you voting him, or in fact excluded him on your scum-list?
Also still waiting for your response Refallen.

On February 02 2012 02:50 redFF wrote:

Too late bro, when I get home tonight I'm bringing the fire.

On February 02 2012 03:02 vaderseven wrote:


This post will probably be the reason I end up voting you over GGQ. A hobby of yours? Wtf man so your hobby is to post lies to piss people off?

On February 02 2012 08:12 redFF wrote:
Spends all of day 1 pushing Radfield on his plan which wasn't scummy. It was an argument about gameplay. Radfield's position regarding his plan was not indicative of alignment but dumb people were sheeping on to the wagon and Jackal jumped at the opportunity to lynch town rad day 1.
Really dude?
This pretty much sums it up. That post is vague as fuck and clearly proves my point.
There was no case.
You're saying Rad came up with his plan to send a message to the other scum? Your case was purely hypothetical with no proof.
Rad's plan could be a way to send a secret code to the other scum!
So could anything anyone ever posts in the game. The case that he created it in order to send other messages to the scum was fucking ridiculous. But hey, rad lynch day 1 is rad lynch day 1 yo.

Why didn't you ask this question before voting radfield to help confirm whether your suspicions of him breadcrumbing a code were correct? Oh right because you already know the answer and you asked a dumb question for towncred lolololol.

This was a response to a question regarding whether scum have power roles

so then why did you vote refallen here?
Given what you just said it's a reasonable assumption to make.
Once again, another shitty reason for a shitty vote.

Refallen is today's "easy lynch" that anyone can sheep onto without looking suspicious in the slightest, and when he flips town(which he probably will) it will be easy to wave away with an "he was scummy and lurking anyway so w/e". Nope.

He didn't vote Bum because he thought Bum was scum (I know I sure did)


Now for Jackal on red,


Here is Jackal's first post indicating suspicion of me

here's the first time I call jackal scum (I also mentioned him during night 1)


Him on me is pure reasonless OMGUS because he knows I caught him.

His other 2 suspects are Refallen and Lanaia, one of them is a VI mislynch waiting to happen led by Blazingscum who wanted to lynch MZ so bad but has barely mentioned scamp. The other is Lanaia, another easy ml who hasn't done much. He's playing safe and pushing shitty wagons because he know's half of you idiots won't call him out on it.

--

Blazinghand
You never answered this post


EVERYONE ON JACKAL NOW GOGOGO

On February 02 2012 09:25 vaderseven wrote:
Jackal, be useful and respound to that post instead of posting stupidness.

On February 02 2012 10:05 Navillus wrote:
Hey guys sorry I've been away so long, super busy IRL.

So in general I mostly agree with Red's assessment of things and think that despite bum flipping town my scumlist largely remains the same. Personally I would like a blazinghand lynch a lot but we're already WAY too spread out with our votes, we need to consolidate on 2 or 3 major candidates. I am going to

##Vote: Jackal

As he would be my next choice out of people that may actually get lynched today, if his lynch doesn't pick up more people rather soon my next choice would be GGQ. I really don't like the wagon on refallen, he seems much more noobtown than scum to me.

The votes on Hesmyrr, Red, and Scamp need to go away, none of them are getting lynched today and the people that made those votes need to give their opinions on the actual candidates.

On February 02 2012 10:47 Blazinghand wrote:


It seems very odd to me that every attack redFF makes on me is blatantly misleading and untrue. Just kidding, it's not odd at all because redFF is scum.

On February 02 2012 11:53 redFF wrote:
CLASS IS NOT IMPORTANT READ JACKAL NOW.

On February 02 2012 21:31 redFF wrote:
I hate catching scum in games with shitty apathetic townies.

On February 03 2012 10:41 redFF wrote:

Well being correct obviously doesn't work. I gotta try a new approach.

On February 03 2012 10:50 redFF wrote:
Jackal I'm obvtown as fuck you don't get to talk to me like that.

On February 04 2012 11:47 Lanaia wrote:


I didn't get a doc protection message. I only know people's colours. I don't know roles. Wouldn't be surprised if there's a cop of a different sanity.

On February 04 2012 13:47 redFF wrote:
YOU REALLY STILL WANNA LYNCH GGQ? IN LYLO? WITH ALL THE OTHER SCUMMY PEOPLE?

On February 04 2012 17:05 Scamp wrote:
You guys are insane. I'm the most likely scum why?

Hesmyrr overexaggerates what I said about Refallen and makes it look like I was solidly against lynching him. Then he uses GGQ making useless switches at the end of the day as evidence against me somehow. What?

The rest of you, I actually have no clue. It looks like you're just making bad guesses.

And honestly, why is redFF asking about doctors?

On February 07 2012 05:39 Zephirdd wrote:
Well, worst thing about night is the fact that there isn't much to discuss, especially when we are waiting for a DT check.

You think Lanaia should pre-claim who she will check? I don't think scum have any form of PRs, considering she was never roleblocked - and the most common scum PR is a scum RB.

On February 07 2012 05:46 Zephirdd wrote:
idk, in the event she dies? idk if it would benefit us, I just hate this lack of posting =|

On February 09 2012 10:06 redFF wrote:
that isn't realy useful considering scum didn't know shit day 1.

regardless, I'll let jackal do the rest, do them in this formate plz.

On February 09 2012 12:54 vaderseven wrote:
When EXACTLY will the day start?

On February 09 2012 12:47 redFF wrote:
jackal you gonna start your ug game any time soon?

On February 14 2012 09:21 redFF wrote:
cock, gg whichever one of you it is

bg rest of town fuck you all i lead 4 straight scum lynches but you fucked us up too much early on

On February 14 2012 12:08 redFF wrote:

meh i thought you were scummy, you had an inno check though and it's not like i could have pushed another lynch through the retardedness of the refallen and rad lynches.

On February 14 2012 12:23 redFF wrote:

he wasn't a vig though

On February 15 2012 05:17 redFF wrote:

no you weren't

On February 15 2012 08:11 GGQ wrote:


Yes, the vigis should have shot by then.