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On January 04 2012 17:56 HarbingerOfDoom wrote:Show nested quote +On January 04 2012 17:46 Dirkzor wrote:
Game on!
This setup scares the living shit out of me. So many nuances to keep track of. Anyway...
I agree that Angels appear to be strongest in the beginning with 1/2 KP. But what haven't been mentioned is that Angels can kill the demon for us aswell. If we lynch Angel of Death and Angelic Acolyte we will have to lynch/Demon hunter the Demons. Since I don't know the Demon hunter or how good that person is, he could just aswell kill 3 town people the first 3 nights which of course would not be very favourable for us. It basicly means we would need to do more correct lynches while having a good demon hunter that don't fuck us over with continously town kills.
Demons also have the Twist ability which basicly makes one (1) of their members immune to night actions, rendering the demon hunter to be less useful.
What i wanted to point out that even if we get 3 correct Angel lynches (unlikely) the first 3 nights. The demons are equally capable to fuck us over. That is why I think that killing any angel or demon is good. Not one over the other. If we knew which angel or demon, it would be a different matter. Demon Hunter: Twister: Doesn't make any mention of attack (nor of sense). Demon hunter should be good to go on any twisted demons.
Oh right. My bad. Thx for clearing that up.
Oh and by the way. Your whole discussion about sharing angel/demon strat or not is stupid. What Refallen wrote wasn't a strat it was obvious and its okay to post that. I think what HOD means is an elaborate strat that can't be countered by town - ei. a strat that will be advanced and give angels/demons a chance to win because town has no counter.
A strat like:
X angel kill A town with powers, then claims that he was in purgatory so Y Angel can say blah blah
right?
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On January 04 2012 18:09 Blazinghand wrote:IN FACT YOU EVEN RESPOND TO THAT POST RIGHT HERE: Show nested quote +On January 04 2012 18:00 HarbingerOfDoom wrote:On January 04 2012 17:59 Refallen wrote:
Not to mention that while angels CAN kill demons, it hardly seems optimal for them. With 11 town and only 3 of each faction, for angels to kill off demons would just mean that town will have an easier time. I think that we can consider the scenario of angel and demon killing each other therfore, highly improbable. They don't know who is town and who is a demon. They might do it by accident. Granted, only the angel of death can do it accidentally (until the angel of death is killed at least) and then we'd never know the difference anyway. Why aren't you telling Refallen off? because you forgot for a moment about your poorly-thought-out rule and acted like a reasonable person. Try to do that more and think about your "well lets never discuss what scum actions might look like in this complicated setup" rule less.
Once a strategy has been mentioned, I can't undo that. Also, I read that post as a mostly stating the obvious filler post, not a strategy post anyway. That was no more posting strategy than it would be to say "I bet you demons are going to try to get control of a vote majority!". But, I decided to correct a clearly flawed portion of it, aka the assuming that angels will magically never kill demons.
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On January 04 2012 18:18 Dirkzor wrote:Show nested quote +On January 04 2012 17:56 HarbingerOfDoom wrote:On January 04 2012 17:46 Dirkzor wrote:
Game on!
This setup scares the living shit out of me. So many nuances to keep track of. Anyway...
I agree that Angels appear to be strongest in the beginning with 1/2 KP. But what haven't been mentioned is that Angels can kill the demon for us aswell. If we lynch Angel of Death and Angelic Acolyte we will have to lynch/Demon hunter the Demons. Since I don't know the Demon hunter or how good that person is, he could just aswell kill 3 town people the first 3 nights which of course would not be very favourable for us. It basicly means we would need to do more correct lynches while having a good demon hunter that don't fuck us over with continously town kills.
Demons also have the Twist ability which basicly makes one (1) of their members immune to night actions, rendering the demon hunter to be less useful.
What i wanted to point out that even if we get 3 correct Angel lynches (unlikely) the first 3 nights. The demons are equally capable to fuck us over. That is why I think that killing any angel or demon is good. Not one over the other. If we knew which angel or demon, it would be a different matter. Demon Hunter: Each night, you may target a player other than yourself to attack. Twister: Any attempts to illuminate, slay, stalk, or observe that player will fail. Doesn't make any mention of attack (nor of sense). Demon hunter should be good to go on any twisted demons. Oh right. My bad. Thx for clearing that up. Oh and by the way. Your whole discussion about sharing angel/demon strat or not is stupid. What Refallen wrote wasn't a strat it was obvious and its okay to post that. I think what HOD means is an elaborate strat that can't be countered by town - ei. a strat that will be advanced and give angels/demons a chance to win because town has no counter. A strat like: X angel kill A town with powers, then claims that he was in purgatory so Y Angel can say blah blah right?
Yay reading comprehension!
Also, who was sent to purgatory is announced :-)
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Hehe... I must admit I didn't think that strat through. It kinda just came to me while writing 
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Blazinghand
United States25563 Posts
On January 04 2012 18:18 Dirkzor wrote:Show nested quote +On January 04 2012 17:56 HarbingerOfDoom wrote:On January 04 2012 17:46 Dirkzor wrote:
Game on!
This setup scares the living shit out of me. So many nuances to keep track of. Anyway...
I agree that Angels appear to be strongest in the beginning with 1/2 KP. But what haven't been mentioned is that Angels can kill the demon for us aswell. If we lynch Angel of Death and Angelic Acolyte we will have to lynch/Demon hunter the Demons. Since I don't know the Demon hunter or how good that person is, he could just aswell kill 3 town people the first 3 nights which of course would not be very favourable for us. It basicly means we would need to do more correct lynches while having a good demon hunter that don't fuck us over with continously town kills.
Demons also have the Twist ability which basicly makes one (1) of their members immune to night actions, rendering the demon hunter to be less useful.
What i wanted to point out that even if we get 3 correct Angel lynches (unlikely) the first 3 nights. The demons are equally capable to fuck us over. That is why I think that killing any angel or demon is good. Not one over the other. If we knew which angel or demon, it would be a different matter. Demon Hunter: Each night, you may target a player other than yourself to attack. Twister: Any attempts to illuminate, slay, stalk, or observe that player will fail. Doesn't make any mention of attack (nor of sense). Demon hunter should be good to go on any twisted demons. Oh right. My bad. Thx for clearing that up. Oh and by the way. Your whole discussion about sharing angel/demon strat or not is stupid. What Refallen wrote wasn't a strat it was obvious and its okay to post that. I think what HOD means is an elaborate strat that can't be countered by town - ei. a strat that will be advanced and give angels/demons a chance to win because town has no counter.
On January 04 2012 16:02 Blazinghand wrote:
No. This is a terrible idea. If there are strategies for angels and demons that are obvious (like demons using corrupted votes to go after blues or masking an important death) it's so, SO important that you share it so we can figure out how to deal with it. If it can help, share it with the town. Honestly, they already have 3 people per team and already know whatever it is you're gonna share.
The idea that we should try to avoid sharing information is exactly the kind of scummy idea that sinks towns. Don't be that guy.
If your interpretation of HofD is correct, then HofD and I were never in disagreement.
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Blazinghand
United States25563 Posts
So yeah i guess the summary here is if HofD arbitrarily determines your post is a "Filler" or "obvious" post it's chill but otherwise you're a bad person ok guys
on that completely unbiased note i'm off to bed
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Well.. Not really. If what is posted is obvious or filler its okay. But handing a well thought out strat to Demons/Angels is bad.
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I wont be available till around [unparsable timestamp format]
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EBWOP: I wont be available till around 1:00 AM GMT+7
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Thats an easy way to lurk... O_o
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But but but I can't acces internet on a plane!
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But how can i read is any other way than a horrible excuse to not post until later. Why not write "I'm flying Home/away/whatever with no internet during the trip. Should be able to post when i Arrive at [Time]"
because the other way everyone can just post a timestamp... 
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/in
And the game is on.
I'll start with some basic guidelines about mafia :
 O NOT BANDWAGON. Please always gives a reason for you vote. More importantly dont vote without thinking about just because 5 other players already voted.
*BUILD STRONG CASE WHEN SCUMHUNTING. This game is about convincing other people, not yourself. dont expect people to follow your vote if dont build a strong case.
EFEND YOURSELF. Even as town, you migth get FoS'ed or have a case build up against you. Please dont go troll mode, dont call everyone dumb, but instead defend yourself and tell us what was going through your mind. This is your best chance of not being lynched.
Not following these basic guidelines is what screwed town over in the steamship mafia. Follow them to maximize our chances to win this game.
Going to lunch now, I'll post about the specificities of the setup later today.
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On January 04 2012 15:57 Blazinghand wrote:
Also, due to the secret vote, vote count analysis isn't available, which makes me feel somewhat at a loss. I think we'll have to hold people accountable to what they say, since we can't hold them accountable to how they vote.
Where does it say that it is hidden? The only thing you can't see is when people voted. Zbot seems to post who voted who. If they are in order based on time I don't know, but you should be able to see who voted who.
Please correct me if I'm wrong here...
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Wahee, the game started and i'm loving the potential dynamics of this game and my excel sheet is ready for it!
To continue on this strategy "discussion" that has started and wheter or not we should discuss this, i think as town we have too as its our only communication platform. Angels and Demons can discuss outside the thread so people hammering on the fact we shouldnt discuss strategy have it wrong in my opinion.
As its not relevant at the moment but will be after night one, i agree on the fact that claiming corruption means giving yourself on a platter to the acolyte unless our town sage illumanates you or channeler banishes you.
We also have a seer who in my opinion has the most important power of the game, namely the identification of angels! As of such, please don't roleclaim for now as mentioned in the pre-game discussion for with 3 factions in this game, 2 factions will instantly try to kill you.
Other thing, is there any way to see the vote count from the Zbot or do we only get a result when the majority happens?
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Due to the fact the players who are sent to purgatory is publicly announced and the fact the same angel role(s) perform night kills every night, it appears optimal to use the power with a focus on the role blocking aspect of it. On night 1 however the channeler and the demonic courier (yes, this is in your best interest) should target players who are highly likely to be killed without protection if they are town/demon. Even if they appear scummy, role blocking at least two out of the three angel roles is beneficial and even if the target is a demon, it's possible that they chose him to perform corruption (this is unlikely however on n1 due to obvious reasons). You can stray from this plan if there is a highly suspicious player as just the fact that this is the starting point should deter angels from hitting with impunity.
We can re-evaluate when it's best for corrupted players to claim when that becomes relevant, but currently I think claiming after getting to use your "sense dark" once seems like a good starting point.
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It is also misleading to say that demons have no KP. Both KP and the corruption ability have the same main function; to bring non-town aligned teams closer to controlling the majority of votes. Otherwise they are quite different, but if no demons/corrupted townies are killed by day 4, they'll likely control 5 votes which could very well be more than the number town controls.
Also due to voting being done via PM, pay close attention to the vote count here:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=12918700
The game utilizes instant majority lynch, meaning that the day ends as soon as majority is reached. Starting from day 2 demons can immediately hammer at -1 without giving away anyone on their team other than possibly the corrupted player, so do not vote without first looking at the vote counts. Even if we are likely to lynch someone, we shouldn't end days early.
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We should probably lynch palmar today, he appears to be some sort of scum and hating his life right now
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EPT
