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Grackaroni:
In this post his writes a pile of nothing to call HoD scum. my comments have been italicised
On January 06 2012 04:06 Grackaroni wrote:HarbingerofDoom is my scum pick. He was one of the first people into the game and took a lot of time to comment on the setup. (this is what the majority of his posts are about) -a completely null tellAt the start of the game he asks for us to give strategies for demons/angels which to me seemed weird from a town perspective and not beneficial to town. -asking to not reveal game winning strategies for the other team is weird for town?this strikes me as counter-intuitiveIn Newbie mini Mafia he was very active and spent a lot of time scum hunting. So far there has been no scumhunting done by him -no scumhunting halfway into day 1, applies to a large number of players in this game and isn't necessarily a scummy thing to do.Show nested quote +On January 05 2012 15:05 HarbingerOfDoom wrote:
So how would people feel about lynching Palmar or Erandorr if they don't start posting more? Both have posted nothing of worth so far, Palmar was even active elsewhere on the mafia forum today, and both are known for doing very little as scum. He seems fairly content with lynching a lurker. (Palmar/Errandorr are the only people he's pushed lynches for) Together this paints a picture to me, he is one of the earlier players to sign up, he was here right when the game started, he had the time to post quite a few things about the setup which tells us nothing about his allignment. In another game when he is town he is more active and does a lot of scumhunting but in this game he wants a lurker lynch.(granted it did include some meta with it) He has the time to post but chooses not to. I'll wait for more posts. -here he accepts HoD's early posting is null tell-he offers weak "meta analysis" based off of a single game-decides to wait for more information, likely because the case isn't strong enough to justify voting
Here, he decides that the person that he thinks should die right now, which is equivalent to his best lynch target for now is not HoD but Bluelightz
On January 06 2012 04:24 Grackaroni wrote:
As for the Palmar question I would shoot Bluelightz because he could easily be mafia, there's much less downside to shooting him than a potentially useful town player who I think is scum and there's no way of knowing his allignment unless he takes a stance on something.
However the lynch is used for Information as well as killing scum, it wouldn't give the most information but more than I previously thought as a lot of people seem split on whether he is scum or not.
Question for Syllogism, Why do you dislike lynching BlueLightz?
Is it because you have gotten a town read on him, (if yes plz do share), or was it just because of the way I presented his lynch.
Says he would lynch bluelightz mostly because "there's much less downside to shooting him than a potentially useful town player who I think is scum and there's no way of knowing his allignment unless he takes a stance on something" which is an awful reason to kill a player.
On January 06 2012 04:26 Grackaroni wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2012 04:23 Blazinghand wrote:
If I knew 100% Bluelightz was town, I'd be focusing other players.
There's a difference between saying I wouldn't mind if he is town and it might be good to kill, just because even if he is town he could be useless.
"Oh but Blazinghand I am grackaroni and have no understanding of nuance please explain"
Oh, Grackaroni, you are always so self-derprecating. Here I will help you.
If Bluelights is lynched and flips scum, that would be sweet.
If Bluelightz flips town, i'm gonna mind a lot. I'm gonna be pissed because he played like shitty dick. It will still have been the right move to have lynched him based on the info we had, and even if he is town, you have to admit he's useless-- indistinguishable from scum and actively hurtful if he, somehow, lives to LYLO.
So I guess my question for you, Captain Grack Sparrow, is, do you really think I'd be happy lynching a townie day 1? Or do you think I'm just willing to accept the consequences of my actions, like a goddamn man, make a case, like a goddamn man, and ACTUALLY VOTE AND DO STUFF.
fine. ##Vote: HarbingerofDoomBut with that I am off, Will be back in a few hours though, I promise 
votes that we lynch and kill a player other than the player he said he would most like to kill 2minutes earlier
this is a glaring contradiction. I cannot understand why he would post such a thing as town.
a universe in which those actions make sense would be a universe that sucks big ol' hairy BearBollocks.
It seems that he could have decided to vote because Blazinghand told him to do something and he responded by voting, but all i can see is weak/barely even reasoning behind him thinking HoD is scum and nothing of worth to justify a vote. I do not think we should let players vote for such bad reasons. I think the vote is scummy.
Does anybody thing his defence in this post is adequate? ( i do not )
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On January 06 2012 07:00 Blazinghand wrote:
EBWOP: Ostriches. People are not ostriches
i <3 this post
What do you make of Grackaroni?
What do you make of my "case" against him
+ Show Spoiler +
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thread is feeling pretty dead
if only there was a way to make xsksc Jackal58 and RoL and Erandorr post...
i have to go sleep soon
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if that is all you have to say then
vote Grackaroni
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What do all of these players have in common?
Blazinghand
Bluelightz
Dirkzor(?)
Grackaroni
HarbingerOfDoom
layabout
Tyrran
xsksc
Zephirdd
To my knowledge they (we) are all relatively new to TL mafia having played a small number of games each. It seems highly unlikely that any of us will have read a large enough number of games to have strong understanding of any other players meta.
If you do not have a strong understanding of a certain players meta you cannot use your own judgement of that players meta against them. You cannot compare their play to your idea of their meta and reach a conclusion.
Instead you are reliant on other players assessment of that player meta and how their play this game is supposedly incriminating. As town you should be reliant on your own judgements and reach your own conclusions and you should not vote entirely because somebody else has a reason that you cannot verify*.
Furthermore despite my limited experience of your various playstyles even i was able to spot an error in Wiggles "meta analysis
Palmar is normally a very aggressive and direct townie. He is not afraid to share his reads, to call people out, and to use his vote to pressure. He tunnels, and he is happy to call out bad play when he sees it. However, this is not the Palmar that we have in this game.
On January 04 2012 23:24 xsksc wrote: Hi guys. First multi-factional game for me as well, not really sure how we should proceed strategy-wise. Lynching an angel day 1 would obviously be ideal, although getting a demon is definitely better than a townie. Show nested quote +On January 04 2012 21:13 Refallen wrote:
Is this some kind of metagame thing again? Dosen't Palmar always troll around in day 1? I remember that in TLXLVIII.
Yeah, and then he went on to be one of the only useful townies that actually read the game and used his brain. Show nested quote +On January 04 2012 21:07 syllogism wrote:
We should probably lynch palmar today, he appears to be some sort of scum and hating his life right now
Syllo, if Palmar does decide to mess around on day one again, would it not be better to wait and see how he behaves later on (like in TLXVIII), rather than just lynching him?
Apparently he often trolls day1 anyway? If players who feel that they know his meta disagree about what his meta is how can i or the others trust them?
Simply, voting for a player based soley on meta that does not come from your own judgements instead of voting based on your own judgements is either bad town play or scum play.
Mr. Wiggles is encouraging people to vote for bad reasons (from their perspective)
since at least half of the players in the thread have an extremely low chance of having solid enough meta on Palmar and Palmar isn't going to vote for himself, then the majority of town cannot justify an entirely meta based case vote on day 1.
-Similarly i cannot justify voting based on risk.nuke's meta.
-As far as i am concerned Grackaroni doesn't have any points worth considering against HoD.
-I also see no case against RoL.
Therefore we should go for a proper case with reasons that we can support, instead. We should lynch Grackaroni.
*well you could verify it by spending a long time going through past games but i doubt that anyone has the time nor the effort to spare to do so```
```are footnotes within footnotes better or worse than spoilers within spoilers?
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having read through recent townie Palmar games:
nothing to see here (clicky) Palmar trolls and call people stupid
stundent mafia he was smurfing as electric black Palmar make lots of reads
election mafia read about half of this and filtered syllo+palamar hyra Arctocod, run for major and call people stupid
Steamship mafia Palmar analyses and calls people stupid
TL Mafia XLVII Palmar runs for major and calls people stupid
I have seen quite a lot of variability in how town Palmar behaves, after these i read resistance I(which isn't quite mafia) and responsibilty mafia in which palmar was 3rd party/scum.
In those games i could not confidently make inferences about his meta and correctly use them to determine whether he is scum or town, because there was not enough common day1 town traits that have become clear to me in the games of his i have read through, thoroughly. This was largely due to the variance in his play on day1.
I feel like i have spent quite a lot of time reading through his post but i feel like i would need to do more to establish a strong read based on his meta that i would confidently support.
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On January 06 2012 22:32 syllogism wrote:
And just like with everything else, you trust people who you think have made themselves look towny and you consider good players. Quoting a person with one post to support your anti-meta stance doesn't make you look particularly good, though I don't otherwise have an issue with your play so far
xsksc was agree with Refallen (that palmar trolls) so i considered that 2 quotes. It was also to illustrate that the people that are confident in their meta read might have different meta reads.
besides the logic behind my stance is independent of the quote and that logic is the important part.
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here goes:
Mr. Wiggles
+ points
about this postclick
On January 05 2012 07:05 Mr. Wiggles wrote:Hey guys, I was sick last night, so I didn't bother posting. I took some Dristan and went to bed and feel better now, though, so let's get started. First thing's first, I want to address a couple of posts that I saw as non-optimal play, and something we should be aware of.
Show nested quote +On January 04 2012 23:40 Zephirdd wrote:
hi, checking in.
It's stupid to discuss angel/demon lynching, although it is better to have the AoD lynched first we can't just magically detect them. Scum is scum regardless of A/D alignment.
Sage and Seer should not claim unless they have 2/3 scum nailed down that can be instantly lynched; Just make sure to hide breadcrumbs so we believe your claim should that occur.
...day1 is always boring. Just so you know, you should never believe an investigative claim because someone bread-crumbed it. There's no reason to believe it because of bread-crumbs, because there's no proof that they actually did what they bread-crumbed. Breadcrumbs are only useful when a player flips, because you know what role they actually are, and then you know that any breadcrumbs are likely to be sound. If you want a recent example of breadcrumbs killing the town, go read Mini Mafia X, where Wherebugsgo wrote jk three times in a post then claimed jailkeeper, and town believed him. The only person I think can legitimately breadcrumb and use that to support their claim in this game is the demonhunter, and only if they end up killing a complete innocent, or else it could be the acolyte. Also keep in mind that crumbs should be made before the corresponding day-post.
Points out a mistake and tries to encourage good play, could be scummy as it is apears helpful but in itself is quite empty. Could be townie because it is quite helpful. I would only regard this as scummy if he was not do anythig in his other posts.
On January 05 2012 03:02 Blazinghand wrote:
Don't go lynching anyone but Bluelightz if you think he's a legit valid scum. It doesn't matter whether he's an angel or a demon or what. In fact, given that he was staggeringly bad in Student mafia (though he WAS a replacement) it might be good to kill him just because even if he is town he could be useless.
I think we should lynch whoever is the scummiest. If Bluelightz feels scummy to you, put together a case on him and cast your vote like a man. If you think he's probably scummy, and that he'll contribute poorly (as he did in Student mafia), put your money where your mouth is. I can respect that.
This is bad. Killing a useless townie is almost never worth it. A useless townie is still a townie, and they still provide us with a vote and count towards our win condition. It's always better to lynch scum, not lynch someone because he could be scum but it doesn't matter anyways because if he's town he's useless.
In fact, I was leaning town on you at the beginning of the game, but now I think I'm going to have to re-evaluate that somewhat after your recent "case" on Bluelightz. Being bad doesn't make someone scum, so it seems weird that you'd try to attack him for being bad. There's been a lot of talk in the thread so far (though granted, most of it is based on mechanics), so who do you think is scummy? You don't make a case for why bluelightz is scum, just for why he hasn't done anything productive yet.
Tries to shuttdown a bad BL case and bad votes. town like action
Regarding Lynch all Lurkers:
If you want to pursue this, you need to make the distinction between lurkers and inactives. Someone who hasn't posted all day cycles is not a lurker. They are an inactive. A lurker is someone who comes in, makes a useless post to appease everyone, and then leaves again, continuing this as necessary to keep pressure off themselves. So, even if you want to lynch all lurkers, you still have to put a modicum of effort into it, to try to figure out who's actually trying to lurk or not. Scum are very likely to be actively lurking if they're lurking. That is, they are reading the thread, and keeping up with new posts and developments while discussing with their scumbuddies, but aren't actually posting in the thread. These are sometimes easy to find, because when pressured, they'll show up nearly immediately to defend themselves before going back to lurking. So, for anyone who wants to lynch all lurkers, are you ready to make the distinction between lurking and being inactive? Someone already brought this up somewhat, when they asked what keeps scum from just staying slightly more active than the most inactive townie, and this is where the distinction comes in. Think about it.
comes up with an important condition to make the plan i had suggested work. Potentially helpful. Demonstrates that he is reading and thinking about what has been posted carefully. Town-like
Regarding set-up:
In this game, it feels like the town roles can be used in very versatile ways that people aren't really touching on. For example, the demon-hunter is a vigi for demons, but they can also serve as a detective for angels. There is nothing that protects from attacks besides going to purgatory, so if the demonhunter's target lives without going to purgatory, then they're an angel.
Same thing with the sage. Many people are focusing on the cleansing aspect of the role, but not on the investigative powers. This ties in with the corrupted players as well. While the demons want to corrupt as many townspeople as they can, this also makes it more dangerous for them, as they essentially introduce demon detectives into the game.
What I think a decent strategy would be, for as long as the sage remains alive, is to have corrupted players claim the day after being corrupted, along with their result. This means that as long as we keep the sage alive, the number of corrupted players will always remain at, or below, 1. Obviously, we shouldn't set this in stone, as we should wait until day 3 and see if the sage is still alive, along with the acolyte. From my understanding, demons can't corrupt until night 2, which means that day 3 is the earliest that we have to worry about the votes in the lynch. This means that as town, we should try to play as aggressively as we can on the first two days, when there will be the least confusion and complexity. Ideally, we will be able to kill some sort of angel, and optimally the concealer (This forces the demons to choose between corrupting or using their actions, and gets rid of a powerful anti-town ability).
We also have to keep in mind that in this game, until one faction is eliminated completely, no one can be confirmed innocent. If it comes to light that you aren't a demon, or aren't an angel, and try to use that as proof that you are town, I'll be mad and think you're scum.
I think that early in the game, town will be taking the brunt of the offensive abilities of the angels and demons. However, as the game goes on longer, they will be forced to fight each-other. If the angels only focus on killing the town, the demons will simply be able to lynch them once a day later on, and eliminate their KP to win. When the demons corrupt a player and it is successful, they know this player is town, and so that reduces the pool of player with the angels in it. So, the angels can't let the demons reach this stage of the game, and must use their KP on them as early as possible to reduce this threat. As well, the demons should be helping to find angels to lynch, as it reduces the possible KP against them, keeps the lynch off them, and also makes them less likely to be targeted for investigation or demon-hunter KP, as they look more "pro-town". In fact, I think the best angel strategy would be to use their acolyte to try to target demons, as that will either kill their competition, or let them know who's a townie, and thus who's dangerous.
Any information disadvantages we may incur from the AoD and the Concealer also apply to the other faction, and they should be aware of this as well. Thus, they want to try to eliminate their counterpart's ability to hide information, as this will allow them to maintain perfect information in the game. This also ties into the above paragraph
He makes one of the most intelligent comments about the set-up here and in this post (clicky)
the fact that the setup is open specifically to balance it would imply that at some stage we as town will need to discuss the setup and this post is something that should impact the way in which we look at decisions concerning the set-up. Could be town helping town or scum trying to appear to be contributing so it does not necessarily have a bearing on his alignment however.
About voting:
Don't Hammer. While we don't have to worry about corruption until day three, we should still be careful of keeping the lynch under our control. Always check the vote-count before voting, and always vote in the thread along with your PM to ZBot, so that we can see when you voted, as well as who you voted for, before Zbot the count. No one should be hammering a lynch until later in the day if we can help it, as this will give us the most time for discussion and information gathering.
more general advice that could be helpful, fairly null in terms of alignment.
1 & 2
both try to put down a BL lynch and explain why it is bad. town points+
this only accounts for about 3 posts (+points for putting effort into posts and not spamming he thread)
but they could also have been easy posts for scum to make to try to look good without adding much of value to the thread.
he then goes after Palmar and i find some
- points
here (click)
he presents his case on Palmar.
my main problem with this is that it is entirely meta based and i have explained why i think that that is of no use to over half of the thread and why for over half of the thread using his meta analysis as the basis for their vote would be bad play.
Some of the assertions about Palmar 's meta don't fit with the recent games that I have read so perhaps the case is forced. (but remember i do not think i understand palmars town playstyle, so this is only valid if to you his meta read doesn't fit)
It also makes lots of sense from a mafia perspective to want to lynch players that can potentially be great assets to town and are likely to be protected at night, as early as possible.
So to me this post fits a mafia agenda.
in this post (clicky)
He misrepresents HoD arguing to not lynch Palmar day1 by presenting it as "keeping him alive to endgame" and then defeats that idea. Any such action is scummy because he is appears to have put down HoD point when in fact he hasn't. +scum points
at the bottom highlights the lack of information and how important is is to not no-lynch. -null
he then clarifies some of his meta comments
EBWOP: When I say seen him play a game, I mean where I was in it with him, also playing.
Conclusion:
He recent posts make sense from a scum perspective and as such we should be paying close attention to what he post in future (underlined should be obvious).
In his posts he makes comments about the set-up that are relevant, he appears to be helpful, but importantly, his posts indicate that he is carefully reading the thread and the quality of his comments indicate that he is putting effort in. This last point to me seems very townie additionally his case on Palmar makes sense from a Wiggles is town standpoint also.
On balance i think he is likely town and is by no means the scummiest person in the thread.
they are my thoughts. concluding townie in the thread sucks, risk nuke stuff in a few hours.
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On January 06 2012 08:59 Mr. Wiggles wrote:
Next, is his altercation with Bluelightz, which I find very odd. Earlier, Palmar noted that he thought "it's unlikely he's scum", but then he felt the need to try to pressure him. So, something that Bluelightz posted must have caused some kind of concern for Palmar. The only thing posted by Bluelightz in this time, was his list of reads, so this must have been what set Palmar off. Pressuring Bluelightz to take a stance was fine, but the way in which Palmar did it was odd. Instead of asking Bluelightz who he would like to lynch, he instead came up with some sort of compulsive vig scenario, which doesn't add anything to the thread, and actually ended up detracting from it (see subsequent discussion with people jumping on the question instead of just discussing the lynch). Also, notice that Palmar is pressuring Bluelightz for giving a list of null and green reads, when this is the exact same thing Palmar has done up to this point in the game. It's hypocritical.
So, after he finally gets an answer from Bluelightz, he still doesn't apply any actual pressure to him. He doesn't vote for him, he doesn't ask for people to vote for him, he just said he might vote for him in the future, which does not create pressure, and is completely different from my experience with town Palmar. Palmar doesn't even attack the bad posts made by Bluelightz, where for example he said he would lynch a lurker instead of naming one. Instead, he acts rather timidly compared to the pro-town Palmar I know. He doesn't even end up answering his own question afterwards, even when asked to, refusing yet again to take a stance on scum.
Bluelightz Indonesia. January 05 2012 21:36. Posts 103 PM Profile Quote #
filter
Okay here's the continuation of my reads
Palmar Iceland. January 05 2012 21:42. Posts 4187 PM Profile Blog Quote #
filter
So who would you lynch Bluelightz?
I missed this just then because i was looking only at Mr. Wiggles's filter.
Thie is a second example of Mr. Wiggles misrepresenting anothers players actions only this time it was a player he wanted to lynch.
Updated order of maginitude of scummyness
1)Grackaroni
2)Mr. Wiggles
that said, Palmar why didnt you push for a BL lynch?
You said that you felt he was a good lynch candidate.You asked him further questions but you didn't share any conclusions making statements like "that's very... interesting" which isn't remotely helpful to somebody reading. Wiggle's was right you definitely were timid in the final post. "you better come up with something tomorrow" contrasts your earlier statements greatly and does not fit whatsoever.
+ Show Spoiler +On January 06 2012 00:00 Palmar wrote:
After Bluelight's latest list of only town/null reads and his wishy-washy-ness with accusing people I might actually just off him. I was kinda leaning maybe noob-town on him, but I don't like his last few posts.
On January 06 2012 00:14 Palmar wrote:
I'm starting to think we should lynch BL. On January 06 2012 00:21 Palmar wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2012 00:20 Bluelightz wrote:On January 06 2012 00:19 Palmar wrote:
Me talking to syllo doesn't mean I don't want to hear your answer to my hypothetical question Bluelight. with the game on the line, and your gun loaded, who takes the bullet and why? Hmm, if it was that i'd re-evaluate everyone other then RoL and if i find someone else scummier then him I wouldn't shoot RoL but If I didn't find anyone scummier i'd shoot RoL. Wait, didn't you just read everyone's filter? What's there to re-evaluate? Do you not like your conclusion of everyone being null? On January 06 2012 00:55 Palmar wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2012 00:30 Bluelightz wrote:On January 06 2012 00:24 Palmar wrote:
In addition, Neither risk.nuke nor RoL have posted anything in the game yet. What makes you think RoL is more likely to be scum than risk.nuke? I think RoL is more scum because he didnt post anything before now and risk.nuke "promised"more content but, if he didnt fullfill the promise I would consider that he is scum also. Alright, so at gunpoint, your highest possibility of flipping scum is RoL, based on the fact that he has not posted. That's very... interesting. You have little enough faith in your actual reads that you would risk a game to kill off someone who you have nothing to determine his alignment on. On January 06 2012 01:12 Palmar wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2012 01:07 Bluelightz wrote:
Okay Palmar, I'm about to sleep.So, ask me what you want to ask now :3 Well, I'm not sure what I should be asking you, apparently you're happy with fencesitting through the lynch, throwing your vote randomly against some lurker. Your entire scumhunting process is "This guy has not posted, so he must be scum". And I have a problem with that. Don't let me keep you up, there's still another day. You better come up with something better tomorrow, even if it's only a measurement of your neck.
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Assuming wiggles is a demon/angel and that palmar is not on his team
Then Wiggles know that Palmar is either a townie or angel/demon and poses a threat to wiggles because Palmar is one the stronger scumhunters and could find him.
If Palmar has a power role and realises think that Wiggles is angel/demon then he will likely try to catch or kill wiggles. As someone regarded as a strong scumhunter he is more likely to be the one to catch Wiggles and convince others of his alignment.
In short he presents a threat and killing him early would help Wiggles team
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WoW that is quite a mess!
EBWOP:
What if Wiggles is a demon/angel and Palmar is not on his team?
Then Wiggles knows that Palmar is either a townie or the other faction out of Angel/Demon. And that Palmars win condition will require him to kill Wiggles. (except in the True love exception)
If Palmar has a power role and thinks that Wiggles is an angel/demon then he will likely try to investigate or slay wiggles, with his or his team-mates night actions. Alternately he might try to lynch him later on using forced votes and/or make a case against him. None of these actions are good for Wiggles.
As someone regarded as a strong scumhunter Palmar is likely to be the one to figure out that Wiggles is scum and then convince others that wiggles is scum.
In short if Wiggles is scum and Palmar isn't on his team, then Palmar presents a threat to Wiggles and killing him early would help Wiggles team.
Jackal, would you maybe do something?
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Erandorr:
+ Show Spoiler +On January 05 2012 09:54 Erandorr wrote:Show nested quote +On January 05 2012 09:49 Blazinghand wrote:On January 05 2012 09:49 Blazinghand wrote:On January 05 2012 09:48 Erandorr wrote:
The last time I looked the game was full already, didn't even realize I am in this until now.
The biggest question for me right now is this:
Blazinghand are you WBGs Smurf? Or his long lost brother, maybe?
Yes clearly i'm WBG's smurf with thousands of posts This post is sarcastic. I am not his smurf. In case that's not clear. And the long lost brother part? missed a lot of time, starts by joking around On January 06 2012 09:16 Erandorr wrote:
Ya I probably should post sometime soon but I am really tired and want to sleep soon. If anyone has any question for me just go ahead, I will provide content of my own tomorrow. Promises content on the next day (which would be today) just now posts On January 07 2012 01:39 Erandorr wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2012 00:51 syllogism wrote:
While I consider palmar the better lynch out of wiggles/palmar, I don't think it's a good idea to lynch palmar today. We've other very good lynches available, it's a setup with 6 scum and he is very likely to become more transparent the longer the game goes on if he is scum or dead if he is town.
I'll probably narrow the list down but I would like to keep the lynch between erandorr/risk/tyrran/refallen. Out of those erandorr appears to be by far the safest lynch and the only reason I haven't been actively pushing him as the #1 lynch was to give him more time and because it's pretty disappointing if he again decided not to play due to rolling scum. I actually didn't roll scum. I just missed the start and don't seem to find a way into the game. I already stated with my brilliant 1 liner that I sort of dislike a Wiggles lynch and actually would like to lynch Palmar today. I don't quite know what to do with all the other crap that has been posted, since the only person I have a clear Town read on is you (YES IM TRYING TO BUDDY UP) claims town and makes an excuse doesn't seem to be trying to help, or be serious On January 07 2012 01:55 Erandorr wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2012 01:48 Zephirdd wrote:On January 07 2012 01:30 Refallen wrote:
Yes, but would a scum immediately stick his neck out to try to lynch one of the more prominent players here? Especially assuming, of course, if Palmar flips town he will probably get lynched or at the very least be focused on the next day? Essentially trading a townie for a scum. And even if a scum team deems this worthwhile, would they send mr.wiggles to do the accusing, seeing as how he has a high chance of being the better player on the scum team? Same thing with jackal, and it's why I think they might be town. The only mitigating factor is the fact that syllo was on palmars case early in the game, and wiggles/jackal thought that was the green light in getting palmar lynched. I think the explanation that they're town is more likely though.
Also, syllo, why do you still want to lynch me?
They would, exactly because someone would end up asking this question. Someone mentioned that there is a 80% rate of mislynch on day one on a mafia dedicated forum, and that is quite something. This is enough to say that you cannot push someone as scum because he made a mistake day 1 - which is something many players interpret wrongly. It's NORMAL for town to make mistakes as long as they are justifiable. However, Palmar points out a good amount of inconsistencies on MrWiggles' case, and we should also consider that he is an experienced player(compared to most of the lineup). He knows better than making those mistakes, and we all know that inexperienced players would fail to see these little inconsistencies and end up lynching Palmar. If there is one thing perfectly fine for a scum team, is to lynch an enemy Palmar right off the bat; ESPECIALLY day 1 where the most wrong cases occur. Although the same could be said for MW(a scum Palmar would benefit a whole lot from lynching MW), the difference is that Palmar's case is much stronger than MrWiggles, especially when, by building that case, he broke a good lot of MrWiggles' arguments. Either way, we can also consider that both Palmar AND MrWiggles may be scum(two families). Out of the two, which is the one you would rather like to lynch and why? asks a person who supported Palmars case and subsequently voted for Wiggles which of the two they want to lynch On January 07 2012 02:11 Erandorr wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2012 01:56 Dirkzor wrote:On January 07 2012 00:51 syllogism wrote:
While I consider palmar the better lynch out of wiggles/palmar, I don't think it's a good idea to lynch palmar today. We've other very good lynches available, it's a setup with 6 scum and he is very likely to become more transparent the longer the game goes on if he is scum or dead if he is town.
I'll probably narrow the list down but I would like to keep the lynch between erandorr/risk/tyrran/refallen. Out of those erandorr appears to be by far the safest lynch and the only reason I haven't been actively pushing him as the #1 lynch was to give him more time and because it's pretty disappointing if he again decided not to play due to rolling scum. While I agree that palmar/Wiggles aren't our best lynch option, why would you rather hang Palmar? Meta? Because i feel that Wiggles case is bad. Whether it is intentionally to push an agenda or just bad i don't know. About your other targets I find risk the most scummiest. Why do you think Risk is scummiest and not Tyrran/me? If I am not mistaken then Syllos reasons to rather lynch Palmar have very little to do with the arguments Wiggles brought forward. Show nested quote +On January 07 2012 01:59 Zephirdd wrote:On January 07 2012 01:55 Erandorr wrote:On January 07 2012 01:48 Zephirdd wrote:On January 07 2012 01:30 Refallen wrote:
Yes, but would a scum immediately stick his neck out to try to lynch one of the more prominent players here? Especially assuming, of course, if Palmar flips town he will probably get lynched or at the very least be focused on the next day? Essentially trading a townie for a scum. And even if a scum team deems this worthwhile, would they send mr.wiggles to do the accusing, seeing as how he has a high chance of being the better player on the scum team? Same thing with jackal, and it's why I think they might be town. The only mitigating factor is the fact that syllo was on palmars case early in the game, and wiggles/jackal thought that was the green light in getting palmar lynched. I think the explanation that they're town is more likely though.
Also, syllo, why do you still want to lynch me?
They would, exactly because someone would end up asking this question. Someone mentioned that there is a 80% rate of mislynch on day one on a mafia dedicated forum, and that is quite something. This is enough to say that you cannot push someone as scum because he made a mistake day 1 - which is something many players interpret wrongly. It's NORMAL for town to make mistakes as long as they are justifiable. However, Palmar points out a good amount of inconsistencies on MrWiggles' case, and we should also consider that he is an experienced player(compared to most of the lineup). He knows better than making those mistakes, and we all know that inexperienced players would fail to see these little inconsistencies and end up lynching Palmar. If there is one thing perfectly fine for a scum team, is to lynch an enemy Palmar right off the bat; ESPECIALLY day 1 where the most wrong cases occur. Although the same could be said for MW(a scum Palmar would benefit a whole lot from lynching MW), the difference is that Palmar's case is much stronger than MrWiggles, especially when, by building that case, he broke a good lot of MrWiggles' arguments. Either way, we can also consider that both Palmar AND MrWiggles may be scum(two families). Out of the two, which is the one you would rather like to lynch and why? Check the voting post and decide for yourself who I would rather like to lynch. Hint: it's obvious As for "why", I think I stated a couple times already. Ya, mistake on my side, sorry. he is asking lots of questions and saying bugger all about what he thinks
I am completely fine with an Erandorr lynch.
@Syllogism, why do you no longer think we should lynch Grackaroni?
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On January 07 2012 04:24 risk.nuke wrote:
The thread have really come to a stop since yesterday. I'll write my opinion on who to lynch tonight when I have time to review. You may or may not look forward to it. I don't know if it will be "mindblowing" or "meh".
I am just hoping to see this before i go off to bed.
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On January 07 2012 09:04 risk.nuke wrote:
Erandorr is very likely scum. Simply because a non-posting Erandorr is a red Erandorr.
Jackal58 is another person who would likely bleed red. The first thing he does is attack palmar and keeps at it using tunneling and fearmongering, while I am also slightly leaning red on palmar I don't think Jackal would hit him this hard if Jackal was town-aligned, he's just trying to get rid of palmar any means neccersary. He justifys it by saying he always attack palmar day 1 but I think this is just an excuse. He takes a break from his Palmar tunneling to rightfully rage alittle on people listing no-reads but it doesn't mean anything and he haven't contributed anything himself exept tunneling palmar.
It may not be your style to post a lot day1 but perhaps your could elaborate.
Other than relative inactivity what make Erandorr scum?
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On January 07 2012 10:45 Blazinghand wrote:
So, Refallen. Hm. Um, I did some reading.
Reading through your filter it seems like you're acting fairly town. ._. You got some reads and pushed them in a reasonable fashion, and respond to people who talk to you. I have no idea why you're so bad at voting and knowing where to put your vote.
I'm either severely disappointed in your town play or largely convinced by your scum play.
OK so, I think you MIGHT be scum, but you also might be town. I'm substantially more sure of E-dawg being scum because he's hustling us but I still demand explanations for your actions post me-calling-you-out. And if they are insufficient I will devour you.
##Vote: Erandorr
Oh hey blazinghand whats this is your vote announced in the thread?
yeah man it is
oh that's cool that seems like a pro-town thing to do
yeah i would say so
why would you ever not announce your vote in the thread?
dunno.
hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
In all seriousness we need to be choosing our lynch traget between Erandorr and risk.nuke.
I shall explain why i think this in the morning
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Yesterday i waited to see more from risk.nuke and i was sadly disappointed.
risk.nuke:
Having filtered risk.nukes past games I feel that there are
A few general traits that he displays as town:
-He often posts very little day 1 (<1 page)
-He is very aggressive and pushes people on mistakes
-He quotes people a lot and makes accusations
-He is confident and assertive in offering his own opinion
-He is a bit rude
This game he:
-Has posted very little (<1 page)
-Has been aggressive against syllogism, who voted for him
-Has made a few accusations (but not followed them up)
-Has been confident but avoided offering a unique opinion
-Has been a bit rude
Furthermore he has:
-Promised content
-Made excuses
Posts:
This post is extremely out of place, i have not found a single post similar to this one from a day1 town risk.nuke:
On January 06 2012 03:52 risk.nuke wrote:I don't like people posting who they think are town exept when It's in the defense of someone who looks like they are getting lynched. Our job is to find scum. If you think someone is town, you tell them you get a nullread on them or better don't talk about it at all. Belive me bluelightz when I say I don't like a post with a few townreads and no scumreads one bit. There are plenty of reasons why we shouldn't talk about our townreads. It makes it easier for scum to kill our strongest townreads. It makes it harder to discover the motive behind a kill. A scum who belives he is viewed as town won't feel as much pressure. A townie who belives he has confirmed himself might get a bit full of himself and play less optimal.
BluelightzBluelightz is playing without a worry in the world. The nature of most of his posts seems completely carefree. When a townie is confronted with suspicious imo they get nervous and tries to find where they messed up and try to explain it. Bluelightz just shrugs it of. + Show Spoiler +On January 05 2012 21:36 Bluelightz wrote:Okay here's the continuation of my reads Errandor, Null: Lurking cannot determine alignment Grackaroni, Null: His posting contains his case against me and discussing about the lurkers in this game. HarbingerOfDoom, Null/Leaning Town: His posting contains discussion of strategy for town, Discussing LA-Lurkers Jackal58, Null: 2 posts since the start of the game cannot determine alignment. Layabout, Leaning Town: When I compare when Layabout was town in Student and if he is town here his posting style is much the same being aggressive and starting discussion Mr.Wiggles, Leaning Town: His posts while not alot has very good content. Palmar, Leaning Town/Null: His post's generate discussion and he starts discussion himself. RebirthOfLeGenD, Null: Lurking cannot determine alignment. Refallen, Null: His posts contain discussion about the lurkers,etc risk.nuke, Null: Has not posted alot syllogism, Leaning Town/Null: His post's generate discussion and he also shares his reads with others. Tyrran, Null: While lurking a little I can't determine his alignment xsksc, Null: Needs to start posting Zepphird, Null: His post's discuss about LA-Lurkers and strategy Okay I'm done if you have a question about my reads go for it ! Now, I have many town reads because this is day 1 and also people haven't posted much(including me) So, here it is! Read the top. + Show Spoiler +On January 05 2012 05:08 Bluelightz wrote:
First, I don't like the idea of lynching lurkers because more or less it justs waste's us a townie and
Next, I think the people that are not posting should be chec
Lastly, I don't have a scummy read on anyone yet. Doesn't want to lynch a lurker.On January 05 2012 14:27 Bluelightz wrote:
Okay, ill just give my thoughts on LA-Lurkers
First,
I don't think that lynching lurkers benefit town in any way.
Usually it results in a townie lynched(BByte lynch in student mafia as an example)
Also,
Here's the list of people I want posting
xsksc
Cwave
risk.nuke
Errandor
That is all. Doesn't want to lynch a lurker.On January 05 2012 21:46 Bluelightz wrote:Right now, since we have no real option I would like to lynch a lurker. Wants to lynch a lurker.While his response could seem understandable because he did say he'd like to lynch a lurker in lack of better options. But then there is this On January 05 2012 21:59 Bluelightz wrote:Show nested quote +On January 05 2012 21:49 Palmar wrote:On January 05 2012 21:46 Bluelightz wrote:On January 05 2012 21:42 Palmar wrote:
So who would you lynch Bluelightz? Right now, since we have no real option I would like to lynch a lurker. Yes, but which lurker, and why? At this point, I would wait if xsk starts posting, risk.nuke too. But if they don't i'm all ears for lynching them I would lynch RoL right now because he hasn't posted anything when I searched for RoL post's in the thread I haven't found any post's by him He is clearly quite fond of the idea of lynching lurkers.Going back again to when Palmar asked him who he would like to kill. His initial response was catastrophic. He said "an unspecific lurker" and avoided the pressure of the question. He changes his mind and he changes his target to RoL but on a very weak basis. Conclusion: He plays carefree, doesn't seem to giving things more then a brief thought before having an opinion which leads to him often changing his mind. Not traits that strikes me as townish in a complicated mafia game.
RefallenWhat I don't like about refallen is he posts just to look town. + Show Spoiler +On January 04 2012 16:52 Refallen wrote:
Finally started! Hype!
My first thoughts on the setup;
Obviously, I think the best way to go about this game is to focus on killing angels in the early game. Once we get rid of the acolyte, the seer has an infinitely easier job in cleansing corruption because we can actually claim if we got corrupted and not get targetted right now as we get closer to the late game lynching demons obviously becomes more and more important, but town would have a huge benefit if we can reduce angel KP early on in the game, as this has a building effect of letting more townies live = demon corrupt has less of an impact. Even though I approve of strategy talk to give us something to talk about day 1 this doesn't fit. This is just empty. There is nothing here that can be of used by town or be discussed about. Fluff. + Show Spoiler +On January 05 2012 10:22 Refallen wrote:Alright, I just woke up, first thoughts: Why is everyone tunneling the lurkish newbie? He is sooooo likely to flip town instead of scum. Just look at Election Mafia, and XLVIII. In almost every case, the lurking newbie simply turns out to be just that, a newbie, which explains his low-posting. We definitely do not want to be wasting a lynch on him. Show nested quote +it might be good to kill him just because even if he is town he could be useless. This is never a good idea. Even a town who is completely non-contributing serves as an extra KP before LYLO, and for most newbie towns, they will be sheeping the case which most people are already on, in effect letting town have an extra vote. We should never ever ever kill town "because he's useless at it". I'm not sure what you're going on about having a solid case. How does one make a solid case on someone who has 3 posts and told us they're going afk for a bit on the very first day of the game? For now, I don't have a lynch target. I want Palmar to start posting. Everyone is not tunneling, coming to the rescue so quickly you don't even properly analyse the situation. Eager to appear protown? The rest of the post is... "fluff" "I don't have a lynch target" "I Want palmar to start posting" + Show Spoiler +On January 06 2012 02:23 Refallen wrote:
Think this makes me 3/3 of me being discussed as lynching on day 1 as a townie, my play sure is good /sarcasm.
Honestly though, was at a friends birthday party, just got home, about to sleep.
Syllo, and others, I don't see how showing angels were a bigger threat than demons would paint me as anti-town. Keep in mind that the context of the post when it was made; all of us were discussing the setup (mainly because it was start of day 1 and it served as a topic of discussion.) Obviously the point about us not being able to tell who was demon/angel makes the whole discussion basically practically useless, but it provided a topic for us to start talking about the game (if you want useless posts, see palmars kite claim)
With that said, I'll be reading through the thread tomorrow and posting who I think are suspicious. Right now at least my previous suspicion of Palmar has been assuaged at him posting and being his usual bullying town self. This is just a stall post imo. He confirms he knows he is beeing looked at but doesn't write much for a defense. Instead he just says that tomorrow he'll write something usefull. Conclusion: I don't like his posts so far and I'm suspicious towards his hype followed by nothing but fluff. I'm waiting for his thoughts tomorrow and some better defense wouldn't hurt him.
xskscxsksc and the meta. What is xsksc up to? I might be wrong but this doesn't feel like the townie xsksc I am used to.
At this point in the game there are still a number of barely-posters and discussion has not really been serious. In his next post risk.nuke even states there are two days left why woudl I commit to lynching this soon. I took the topics of the time and wrote my thoughts on them
Given that this is the case this post is a very safe post to make, he doesn't need to come to any hard conclusions but it does make him appear to be contributing to the discussion topics at the time. This post is easy to make from either perspective but it is more useful for scum who doesn't wish to contribute but would like to appear to.
Given his comments about refallen it seem reasonable for risk.nuke to pressure or make a case against him, but it seems like risk just completely forgets later on.
He plays carefree, doesn't seem to giving things more then a brief thought before having an opinion which leads to him often changing his mind. Not traits that strikes me as townish in a complicated mafia game
HoD already pointed out that these are typically townie traits, so i am left to infer that the "complicated" setup is what in your view makes it un-town-like? It seems to me that you are trying to mislead people.
@risk.nuke please explain why exactly you felt that those traits do not stike you as townlike?
because here you responded to HoD but it is almost entirely meaningless crap
On January 06 2012 05:39 risk.nuke wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2012 05:08 HarbingerOfDoom wrote:
@risk.nuke
Isn't carefree play usually a townie trait? How does seeming carefree implicate bluelightz? The "everyone looks town!" is surely incriminating, but I am not finding the carefree being incriminating. Why would town get nervous when accused? They know they are innocent. Explaining themselves, yes, but I know I get annoyed, not nervous. It depends. If you are having a single one or two people accusing you, you get annoyed. Like I am now now with syllo. Or example in steamship prplhz tried to get me lynched on a bad case. I got annoyed. Then there are situations where you have a majority of people looking suspiciously at you. You've likely messed up and done something to justify their suspicions but you need to defend yourself. If you mess up town mislynch you. There is a situation I would be nervous in.
You talk about the number of people accusing you if you are town, you say that if you are town and in your situation then you should react the way that you did, by getting annoyed. You back it up by saying that you got annoyed before when you were town. You then say that when a number of people pressure you because you have made a mistake then you need to defend youself, but that if you have messed up that town should lynch you and it would be your fault. You say that if you had messed up and were under pressure you were be nervous.
None of that answer the actually question.
It simply serves to try to paint you as town-like, and if it relates to BL at all then it is to imply that he messed up that town should kill him and lays ground for a potential mislynch. All of those purposes seem scummy to me.
On January 06 2012 04:18 risk.nuke wrote:
syllo, I started the post about 2 hours ago. I share what I want to share when I want to share it. Don't try and control me and please don't try to meta me. All my games I have a different style because I play varying of my mood.
He speaks out against syllogism trying to meta him, i think syllo already explained why this is scummy here (clicky).
On January 06 2012 04:56 risk.nuke wrote:
Syllogism, there are two days left why woudl I commit to lynching this soon. I took the topics of the time and wrote my thoughts on them. Then I wanted to see who would comment on it further, what they would say, who would push for their lynch etc. What the hell are you doing? commenting on how useless I am when you don't know my agenda which you just ruined because you didn't think it through. Or were you planning on pushing for my lynch today. Cause if you weren't there is nothing pro-town about calling me out. I'm town and you're forcing me to reveal what I wanted to do. If I had been scum you would had just tipped me off instead of saving it for a case you would write against me.
Blazinghand quit floating around and write something helpfull yourself.
Here he attacks syllogism for calling him out on his actions. As town risk.nuke typically calls people out for actions he disapproves of yet in this game when syllogism does it "There is nothing pro town about calling him out?" Perhaps risk.nuke believes his usual town play is anti-town?
He says that he had an agenda to "see who would comment on his last post what they would say and who would push to lynch those players", this really doesn't seem like a big plan that syllogism had ruined and having a secret agenda that you expect players players like syllogism to pick up on but not comment on so as to allow you to carry out that agenda seems highly anti-town. Town players shouldn't have anything to hide (except a blue roles) and this "ruined agenda" seems very un-town-like Why isn't risk.nuke being his more open self?
On January 06 2012 12:45 risk.nuke wrote:I don't want to lynch palmar because first of all he is Palmar and secondly he seems to be missing. Why should we lynch the (imo) best player in the game in a 2 mafia team setup day 1. + Show Spoiler +On January 06 2012 11:43 Jackal58 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2012 11:14 Refallen wrote:So to conclude my posting for now, my lynch targets are Palmar and risk.nuke. Among the two, I'm not sure who I want to lynch first. Are you scum too? There should be zero confusion about which of those 2 you would want to lynch if you believe them both to be scum. No offense risk.nuke but you're not scary. Scum Palmar is scary. This is just fearmongering. @Refallen, it is a townie priority to look town. But what you're doing is not that. You're writing useless posts hoping on a brief glance they will make it look as you're contributing. And when most of your posts are like that I get suspicious. There is nothing wrong or scummy with anyone of your posts. But they are all very easy to make as a scum. And I have not made a case yet, if you think what I wrote on you and bluelightz are cases I promise you this. When I make a case it will have a conclusion that says this guy is scum and we should lynch his arse.
Next he opposes a palmar lynch without adressing the reasons for a palmar lynch.
To some people this is a fair argument and to others it is very poor ground for not lynching a player.
He does however make a good point about Jackal fearmogering,- the type of point i would expect risk.nuke to make.
He then re-surmises what he has said about refallen, says then refallen is still acting the same way that makes him scummy. From here-on in he does not mention accuse refallen of anything.
On January 06 2012 12:51 risk.nuke wrote:
I'm not reading anything that long tonight, it's 5 am and I'm only up because sweden are fucking bosses at hockey!!
excuse
On January 07 2012 04:24 risk.nuke wrote:
The thread have really come to a stop since yesterday. I'll write my opinion on who to lynch tonight when I have time to review. You may or may not look forward to it. I don't know if it will be "mindblowing" or "meh".
promises content. Last part is non-committal which might allow for him to provide little.
On January 07 2012 08:40 risk.nuke wrote:
Got bussy writing the daypost for newbie mafia. I'm here now.
legitimate excuse for activity, but because he is here hopefully he can deliver that mind blowing content, right?
On January 07 2012 09:04 risk.nuke wrote:
Erandorr is very likely scum. Simply because a non-posting Erandorr is a red Erandorr.
Jackal58 is another person who would likely bleed red. The first thing he does is attack palmar and keeps at it using tunneling and fearmongering, while I am also slightly leaning red on palmar I don't think Jackal would hit him this hard if Jackal was town-aligned, he's just trying to get rid of palmar any means neccersary. He justifys it by saying he always attack palmar day 1 but I think this is just an excuse. He takes a break from his Palmar tunneling to rightfully rage alittle on people listing no-reads but it doesn't mean anything and he haven't contributed anything himself exept tunneling palmar.
He Provides little! (the scummy option)
He calls Erandorr scum but does not provide enough to support a vote or lynch.
He presents the beginnings of a case against Jackal, he may have some points that he could further push.
But Jackal is one of the 7/18 player so far to not receive a vote. When there are a number of candidates already being discussed why would you present 1 paragraph about a player being scummy and pick a player that, at the time was in absolutely no danger of being lynched? Perhaps he wants to spilt the vote or try to get a no-lynch.
When serious discussion about who to lynch had began risk pipes in to sheep a case and maybe start a case. He does not follow either case up and he does not vote. This does not make sense if he truly feels like Jackal is the best lynch and he is town, or if he feels that jumping on Erandorr will kill scum.
On January 07 2012 09:15 risk.nuke wrote:
Blazinghand what are you on about?
Asks a question, not a contribution.
On January 07 2012 11:00 risk.nuke wrote:
Slowly and steadily I'm beeing raised to the top, scumagenda *cough*
His response to votes is a one line joking comment that scum are voting for him.
Earlier he had stated how he as town would respond by getting annoyed or by defending himself. risk.nuke not doing what he said he would do ask town ===> risk.nuke is scum?
risk.nuke currently the only thing that might make me think you aren't scum is when you make your case because:
On January 06 2012 12:45 risk.nuke wrote:
And I have not made a case yet, if you think what I wrote on you and bluelightz are cases I promise you this. When I make a case it will have a conclusion that says this guy is scum and we should lynch his arse.
You also admit that what you wrote about refallen and bluelightz had very little value in it. And that was most of the substance in your posts so far...
Conclusion:
risk.nuke's play does not math the town risk.nuke you may have come to know and love. He was willing to offer thoughts at the start when doing so was not useful and when it was easy for scum to do so. He has made excuses and promised content. He has yet to deliver that content. He has not been aggressive in calling people out as he has previuosly and has criticised syllogism for calling him out. He avoided has provided a very fluffy answer to HoD's question. He has contradicted his own declarations of good town play. He has avoided making any serious contributions now that we actuaaly have to decide who we are lynching. He has not made an effort to defend himself, but has called everybody voting for him scum.
Vote risk.nuke
filters in past games:
Election mafia (town)
Tl Mafia XLVII (town)
Steamship (Tl mafia 46) (town)
Newbie mini mafia (town)+ nice hotbid post
TL Mafia XLV (town) almost no posts day1
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EBWOP "s not match the town" not "s not math the town"
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My chief weapon is surprise, surprise and fear, fear and surprise..
My two weapons are fear and surprise and ruthless efficiency..
My three weapons are fear and surprise and rutherless efficiency and an almost fanatical devotion to the pope!
Four, no Amongst my Weapons.. Amongst my weaponry are elements such as fear and -
I will post again..
Happy birthday Erandorr! care to spent some of it here?
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@risk.nuke
Your defence is evasive at best:
@risk.nuke
Isn't carefree play usually a townie trait? How does seeming carefree implicate bluelightz? HoD asked this^
You say you answer him here, in This post (clicky)
I'm not sure what you're meaning here, we're talking about beeing nervous and beeing carefree and I think I answered that. I think your mind is living in a world where mislynches doesn't exist.
You didn't really answer the carefree town question. You just talked about behaviour under pressure as town, you made no links between how town or scum would act and how BL was acting, so you definately didn't answer the second and more important question of how BL behavior was implicating him.
@risk.nuke please explain why exactly you felt that those traits do not stike you as townlike? You didn't answer when i rephrased the question here either, but you did make a bunch of unhelpful comments.
I don't see the point of lynching palmar in a multiteam setup. Worst case he is town and we just lyched palmar. Best case he is scum and he can't help us find the other scumteam, That's why I got really suspicious of all the vets wanting him out asap, wiggles sort of dodged me because I really liked his initial big post.
I said that some people are okay with the reasoning but that some would find is suspicious (Wiggles had made the point) but basically because auto-deciding not to vote for a player and disregarding their play would be something scum would rather do if the person was on their team. I will add that the problem with your argument is that you could very well maintain that stance into day 2 or 3, even if the evidence for that player (in this case Palmar) being scum was overwhelming!
In a game with such a low proportion of town it is crucial that town players can get behind lynches together and thus a stance like yours could be very anti-town (depending on how long you maintain it).
Why did you simply re-state your reasoning? That doesn't affect the point whatsoever.I didn't even disagree with your reasoning, i just said that some might find it scummy.
I haven't called everyone who votes for me scum wtf?
well...
On January 07 2012 11:00 risk.nuke wrote:
Slowly and steadily I'm beeing raised to the top, scumagenda *cough* implies scum are voting for you but you don't name somebody specific, so it follows that multiple people that are scum are voting for you(you either 2 or 3 votes at this point) so it is reasonable to infer that you believe either 2/2 2/3 or 3/3 of them are scum.
Your dismissal confirms this
I'm wasn't joking, judging from how I looked it was pretty obvious (or atleast a good chance) scum would slowly push for my lynch to protect their own. so you felt that scum were slowly voting for you?surely that would mean that you felt that more than one of the people voting for you were scum? therefore 2/3 or all of the people voting for you were scum
There is no reason not to state what you think, If I were to come in two days and say, well I thought jackal was scummy two days ago people would either not belive me or legitimitly ask me why the hell I didn't say something Do you mind explaining why you have not been saying what you think about the important issue of the lynch?
Blazinghand was acting high on coffe shouting all over the place how erandorr is hustling us, I didn't much get him.
He may have been acting silly but a quick filter click would have removed the need to ask a question.
Why are you addressing a comment about a post "asks a question" that has no bearing on your alignment?
People doesn't love my townplay
I said people may know and love your townplay so this quote from you is not only irrelevant to my case but it is also incorrect. Why would you make a point like that in the first place? You are trying to paint my conclusion as wrong but you can't so you are trying to split hairs to make what i am saying carry less weight.
I haven't given any serious contributions because I'm not good day 1 and I know it. And if you want to see one of my case you'll unfortunatly have to wait untill someone says something I can use because I can't magicly spawn cases.
But you did promise more content and you haven't supplied it.
You don't need to maically spawn cases you need to look at players behaviour and analyse it as you have in the past. You might want to do.
Even if you don't construct a case you really haven't made it clear where you stand with regards to todays lynch. We have less than six hours and possibly 1 other candidate that could realistically be lynched yet you haven't shared you opinion, this is quite concerning.
Some people are good at finding scum day1, I'm not so I let them do their thing while I don't them in trying to do something I would probably fail with. Isntead I try to find somehting my own way, and setting a trap isn't scummy. Lying is scummy. Not saying what you were doing afterwards is scummy. If you have something to say then say it, don't hint that you think i am a liar.
I think your mind is living in a world where mislynches doesn't exist. Why don't you attack my arguments rather than attacking me? +my lurker post was entirely based on the fact that day1 mislynches are common and that we should adjust our play to put in a good position if a mislynch does happen.
If I were a scum why would I not pressure him if as you say I had good reason to, exept if you think I'm refallens scumbuddy
Why don't you explain why you didn't go after him rather than trying to put words in my mouth(post)?
If you think I've contradicted myself you need to go back and reread that or repost it to me so I can correct you
Here:
It depends. If you are having a single one or two people accusing you, you get annoyed. Like I am now now with syllo. Or example in steamship prplhz tried to get me lynched on a bad case. I got annoyed. Then there are situations where you have a majority of people looking suspiciously at you. You've likely messed up and done something to justify their suspicions but you need to defend yourself. If you mess up town mislynch you. There is a situation I would be nervous in.
here you explain how you feel town specifcally a town risk.nuke reacts under pressure.
On January 07 2012 11:00 risk.nuke wrote:
Slowly and steadily I'm beeing raised to the top, scumagenda *cough* This is basically your entire defense before my post today. Why did you not defend yourself?
Also you attack syllogism for doing something on day 1 that you typically do as town on day 1. (calling people out on what you think is scummy or BS). How is this not a contradiction?
You really haven't invalidated my conclusion so i would prefer it if you would avoid profanities like "bogus" i am very sensitive you know. You have responded to comments that aren't accusations and you have avoided actually answering the main issues that i presented.
I also think you shouldn't decide to completely ignore the argument that you are playing in a way that does match your previous play as town, particular as you better than anyone know the reasons for you actions and should be able to explain why you are acting differently.
So my vote is staying on you
@everyone else what time do you think would be best for the lynch? I can stay for another 2 and a half hours, and still get a good nights sleep.
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On January 08 2012 06:33 Mr. Wiggles wrote:risk.nuke, does what Palmar say accurately reflect what you had in mind with your "plan"?
Wait a minute! I think I might have also been using this plan!
What are the chances?
risk.nuke are you spying on my brain?
hmmm... how should i test this?...
@risk.nuke What is my favorite race in fantasy genres?
+ Show Spoiler +if he says dwarf i will send a complaint to zona because he must be spying on me
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EPT
