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Resistance I - London Calling
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Blazinghand
United States25552 Posts
/signup ? | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25552 Posts
On December 24 2011 02:48 xsksc wrote: If anyone desperately wants to play in this I don't mind sitting out, I'm not very good at mafia anyway. Don't put yourself down so much! Nobody got good at mafia by not playing games. | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25552 Posts
On December 24 2011 04:31 Toadesstern wrote: /in /signup Do not want to miss the next one :p Edit: Crap I'm too late again?  Not quite! Signups: This game is open to anyone. Signups will remain open until all 9 spots have been filled. This is not a first-come-first-served game, the hosts reserve the option to invite selected players. It's not first-come-first-served. I think Forumite will be picking Cool Kids only (tm) for this game. The trick is to be a cool kid like Zona. | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25552 Posts
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Blazinghand
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If a team has 5 Nay votes at any one time, it is immediately rejected and the team of the next leader in line is up for the vote. Who is the next leader in line? Is it alphabetical or by list order? | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25552 Posts
EDIT: I guess my question is better summarized as: Using a standard round-robin format, one among the players is designated the leader What is standard round-robin format? | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25552 Posts
On December 25 2011 15:21 kingjames01 wrote: It really is such a fun game. I might even link a few good guides since there are so many new players to Resistance... I wouldn't want the first game to be too low-level. It will still be fun but it may not be as intense. Here are some completed game threads I found on mafiascum to get an idea of how this plays out: http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=63&t=14194 http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=63&t=14193 http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=57&t=17111 http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=63&t=14946 In case people are looking for reference/research. | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25552 Posts
The Shepherd, a 30-minute spoken word story about a RAF pilot is flying home from Germany for Christmas in 1957. Fog sets in, and all radio communication is lost http://www.cbc.ca/video/news/audioplayer.html?clipid=2179626369 gl hf! | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25552 Posts
On December 26 2011 06:21 Forumite wrote: Slight change to OP. You can vote for a leader before he has proposed a Team, but the team needs 5 yay-votes AFTER being proposed to be accepted. If 5 people vote yay for a Team, then one of them changing his vote, then the team will not be immediately accepted once proposed. This passage is currently still in the op: 8. You can vote for a leaders Team before he has become leader. If a leader has 5 yay-votes when proposing his team, the game goes to night immediately. So this means in the following situation: Players Alex, Bart, Charles, Dick, and Eric all vote Yay on Fred. Fred then proposes a team: we immediately hit night phase. And... Players Alex, Bart, Charles, Dick, and Eric all vote Yay on Fred. THEN, Dick changes his vote to Nay. Fred then proposes a team: we do not hit night phase, since at the time of proposal he had 4 votes, and the only time he had 5 votes he hadn't proposed a team yet. Is this correct? | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25552 Posts
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Blazinghand
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On December 26 2011 14:43 Toadesstern wrote: I do agree with the fact that Truth should not be voting so early. Let's put it this way: If we really go by a true-rnd process saying the chances of getting 3/3 town are slim probably is a nice way to say it. Also I'm claiming your groups are not arbitrary at all. At least group1 (Zona, Palmar, yourself) and group2 (Jackal, Greymist and VE) don't look arbitrary at all :p I'm pretty sure both truth and I have less games than those 6 people out of groups 1 and 2 which could make the 3rd group a newby-group but than again I never played with Blazinghand so maybe I'm wrong with that one. But yeah, I'd like to hear a lot more from those 6 people you mentioned plus yourself and what they think about each other. Yes sending yourself makes sense but after all I'd like to be able to judge you d2 as well. Assuming truly random picks, there's a (2/3) chance of picking a townsperson each time, meaning that there's a (2/3)^3 chance of getting 3 townies, or 8/27-- pretty bad. I think it's reasonable to select yourself as part of your group. If you are town, it would be very unreasonable for you not to select yourself at this phase in the game when there have been neither successful nor unsuccessful missions yet. To yourself, you are a confirmed townie. Then you face somewhat decent odds of picking out two townspeople to come with you. I think it's unreasonable to assume that there is 1 mafia among Zona/Palmar/Radfield. there could easily be 2 or 0. But EVEN ASSUMMING the layout is "1 mafia in Zona/Palm/Rad, 1 mafia in Jack/Grey/VE, 1 mafia in Blaze/Truth/Toad", the correct answer isn't to pick one guy from each group... Because you, Radfield, know your own alignment. If you really think that there is 1 mafia in Zona/Palm/Rad, you should actually take one of Zona/Palm along with you! This is because you personally have the information that you're town, and can therefore say (assuming, again, that there's some distribution like that) that one of Zona/Palm is town. Therefore, you pick one of Zona/Palm, and you only have one pick left, and so you just need one solid-read town pick to create the following situation: Team: Radfield (yourself, who is confirmed town to you), plus Zona (for example), plus someone who gives off a solid town read like, say, Blazinghand. If the mission fails, you can reasonably say "well I think this was Zona" (though others will not be able to do so). The beauty of this though is, assuming you're right about the "1 mafia among Zona/Palm/Rad", If your mission succeeds, you've pinned down a mafia member! (WIFOM alert: Mafia, knowing this, might intentionally not sabotage, etc). Contrast taking a team like Radfield/VE/Toad, and a mission success-- Assuming your "1 mafia among Zona/Palm/Rad" idea is correct, this doesn't give us any info on who that was. Same with a mission failure. So, if you really think one of Zona/Rad/Palm is mafia, and you are very sure of this due to the high relative skills of these specific players you, being Rad and knowing your own alignment, are in a unique position to form a team that grants you information-- so your current metric for forming a team is flawed. I will not grant you a pre-emptive vote based on your ideas for acting on your reasoned assumptions. THAT BEING SAID, I do NOT think it it safe to say that there is one and only one mafia among zona/rad/palm. It's certainly possible, but it's also possible that Forumite was like "well I think this is a newbie game so I'm gonna stack the deck in favor of town and make a bunch of crap players mafia like that Blazinghand punk", or maybe he was like "lol man these guys gonna get rolled so hard, Zona, Rad and Palm all gonna be my mafia lololololol" So, I also do not grant you a pre-emptive vote based on the assumptions underlying your ideas. I will wait to see the team itself. That being said, I would not be unwilling to vote for your team once you have constructed it, should I determine it to be solid. I'm only pointing out that anyone who's thinking of pre-emptively yessing you (Truthbringer...) may want to put a wee bit more thought into it. Just saying. | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25552 Posts
On December 27 2011 02:03 TruthBringer wrote: Blazinghand, how exactly do you get a townread from someone at this point in this game? Based on my assumptions, which I clearly stated in my previous post. Everybody is just A, B, . . . H, I right now. I am not sure that putting any more thought into it is going to cause me to rationally approve of A, B, C, but not A, B, D. It's the kind of read that is more solid if more people post analysis of what they think the optimal move is. I think it's reasonable for any team leader to chose himself as part of his team on this first day, since to him he is a confirmed town, in order to maximize our odds. In any case, I don't view people as A, B, C-- you know why? Currently people have already diverged somewhat in posting patterns, if only because it's christmastime and some people haven't had time to post yet. For example, I haven't seen a post from Zona, whereas I HAVE seen a post from you. This means to me, Zona is indeed just "player A who hasn't posted yet"... but you are not. You are a person with a history. You blindly yay-voted the first town leader on the basis of "Well forming reads on the first day is harddddddddddd (or impossible)". brb 3 hours | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25552 Posts
On December 27 2011 03:15 Toadesstern wrote: quick question. What's more important for you: Getting information d1 based off our mission or getting a successful mission d1? I don't see why those would be mutually exclusive. In fact, I see those as the same thing. A successful mission gives is 3 probable towns, whereas a failed mission just says "well someone among these three is mafia but we don't know who ._." So I'd say: yes, gathering d1 info by getting a successful mission is the most important. | ||
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Blazinghand
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On December 27 2011 06:06 Radfield wrote: Well, what you were saying earlier is that if I think 1 of Zona and Palmar is scum, it makes the most sense to actually take one of those players along. That would decrease our odds of victory, but increase our information potential. Yes? Indeed. But this is only a viable tactic because you personally know that you are not scum. I'm not the current leader, so I would gain no additional information from you selecting one of Zona/Palmar to come with you, even assuming I shared your thought that 1 of Zona/Palmar/Radfield is scum, because *I* can't rule *you* out. So with my knowledge base, with your assumption of 1 of Zona/Palm/Rad being scum, I actually would not want you to pick 2 from that group, but rather, to pick me, since I myself know I am not scum, and I want to maximize our success rate. Effectively, the leader's D1 is fundamentally different from a non-leader's D1, because the leader knows his alignment and is select the team. Since I'm currently not the leader, I think we should maximize win rate which will maximize info gained. You as the leader are not working with the same information I am, so you will have a different motivation. | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25552 Posts
On December 27 2011 06:16 Blazinghand wrote: Indeed. But this is only a viable tactic because you personally know that you are not scum. I'm not the current leader, so I would gain no additional information from you selecting one of Zona/Palmar to come with you, even assuming I shared your thought that 1 of Zona/Palmar/Radfield is scum, because *I* can't rule *you* out. So with my knowledge base, with your assumption of 1 of Zona/Palm/Rad being scum, I actually would not want you to pick 2 from that group, but rather, to pick me, since I myself know I am not scum, and I want to maximize our success rate. Effectively, the leader's D1 is fundamentally different from a non-leader's D1, because the leader knows his alignment and is select the team. Since I'm currently not the leader, I think we should maximize win rate which will maximize info gained. You as the leader are not working with the same information I am, so you will have a different motivation. In other words, I was asked "what's more important for you (blazinghand)" but this isn't the same question as "if you were radfield, and responsible for picking teams, and you were completely sure that either zona or palmar was scum, and you're not scum, what's more important for you" that being said, have you assembled a team? | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25552 Posts
On December 27 2011 06:17 Toadesstern wrote: That's exactly my point. From what blazinghand said earlier it looks like he wants us to sacrifice d1 for information gain because if he was suggesting that if rad thinks zona or palmar are scum then he should take one of them to get clear information. However that "clear" information is only information for rad because he might know his alignment but how am I supposed to know if he's not the spy while both zona and palmar are town? So that "clear" information is really only clear information for rad (if at all) and increases the chances of being blocked d1. At the same time we could just get screwed big time if the waynie (idea = send rad + zona/palmar + waynie) turns out to be a spy. So even for rad the information isn't granted at all because he could end up thinking zona is a spy when sending zona along with him while in realitiy the 3rd guy was the spy. To sum it up: I don't think there is anything like granted information out of d1 therefore I think we should try to minimize the chances of getting sabotaged therefore I don't like your "send zona or palmar to get clear information" at all. That's why I what blazinghand was about to suggest earlier. ._. we only really gain information if the mission is successful. If the mission fails all we know is "someone of these three is scum" the point of that post is that Radfield is not acting optimally given his assumptions, not "oh we should do X" because I think Radfield's assumptions are wrong anyways. I'm just pointing otu that given what he's said, it's a terrible idea to pre-vote Yay on him and you should unvote. | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25552 Posts
On December 27 2011 06:23 Jackal58 wrote: Why would I vote for a team if you have the ability to switch it up later? Indeed. this is why TruthBringer should unvote. also, sorry I think I mixed up toadesttern with TB briefly. | ||
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Blazinghand
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On December 27 2011 06:29 Toadesstern wrote: yeah what I was talking about was that part: You're actually saying "well given your theory is right and I was in your spot you probably should send in either Zona or Palmar as well to get information" or am I interpreting this part wrong? I can see how you criticize his theory of groups and I don't have a problem with that but what I quoted really sounds like "yeah let's send in a spy to get information". What? No, the point here is that he has information, which is that he is town, right? So he should take his other 1/3rd chance from the same group as himself, rather than taking one from the other group, assuming his assumption of thirds is correct. However, were he to field such a team, a player with the same assumptions as him (rule of thirds) and different information (ie, you are not radfield) would always vote against his team, since from their point of view he's picking 2 people from a group of 3 that contains 1 mafia-- we're working with diff info than radfield is. I'm saying that, given a successful mission to come, if you're radfield and you operate on radfield's assumptions, picking 1 from each group is sub-optimal. | ||
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Blazinghand
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Blazinghand
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I think it's fairly clear-- I've been talking a lot. I'm not actually sure "talking a lot on d1" is a town move in this game. Contrast "person who talks a lot", who might be slipping messages or hints to his scum alies (remember no mafia QT this game) and someone who straight-up hasn't been talking much at all, and therefore is likely town. I will be voting Nay on this team because I'm suspicious of Radfield. | ||
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Blazinghand
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On December 27 2011 13:52 Toadesstern wrote: you said what he said sounds townish and he's open for discussion. I still think he contradicted himself saying (all under the assumption that your group theory is right and you really are town) tha we should send palmar or zona as well because. ? | ||
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Blazinghand
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On December 27 2011 13:53 Toadesstern wrote: oh and no the fact that you're talking a lot is not the reason I voted nay because I'm talking quite a lot as well and yeah seems like noone is talking at all o.O you're talking a lot and not contributing much. It sounds to me like you could be slipping messages to your mafia allies here. | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25552 Posts
On December 27 2011 13:59 Toadesstern wrote: I'm talking a lot without contributing? Most of my posts actually still are about your first big post because I still think you got something wrong there. So yeah I'm critizing you instead of contributing myself but atm noone is really contributing because noone is talking except for the two of us and we're already discussing each other. Nothing more to discuss right now because again. Everyone else posted so little that they're nulls for me. I think you should try to contribute/post etc to encourage others to do the same. Perhaps the solution to "nobody else has contributed, so the town is having trouble forming reads" isn't "well hey I better not contribute you guys" but rather "hmm... maybe the solution here is to contribute." Like, that would actually help. | ||
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Blazinghand
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On December 27 2011 14:06 GreYMisT wrote: Blazing why are you suspicious of radfield? Do you find his team displeasurable? I find the fact that it includes me to be excellent. I find the way he has presented a series of arguments, not used them, claiming they were "just to start discussion", then presented a new team WITH NO JUSTIFICATION UNTIL PRESSURED, is scummy. I think something is up. I'm suspicious enough that I'm willing to throw him out and see what the next guy has to offer. | ||
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Blazinghand
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Also anyone who believes VE that i am more suspicious for my post against the team "near the end of the day" is a moron or scum or both. I was pointing out the danger of a Radfield quickhammer. The day was only close to the end because some guys voted yes after my post, not due to the time limitation. Believe it or not i fingered Rad as scum and I stand by that read and my nay vote. | ||
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On December 29 2011 09:23 Toadesstern wrote: Actually I got to agree with Greymist on the VE matter. Imo there's basicly 2 options for a pro-town-looking post. Either he's trolling and doing crazy shit that might look protown while in reality people should call him out for that stuff. Zhat's what he does when he's scum, because of his meta. At least that's what he did last game. Or he's not trolling and trying to be useful. I don't see him trolling therefor I got to agree with Greymist. So you're claiming that VE is trying to look town? I literally don't undrstand what you're saying here. Is he not bei g helpful on purpose therefore hes town? | ||
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Blazinghand
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On December 29 2011 09:31 VisceraEyes wrote: Oh I'm a fool? Because I find you suspicious? Please. Prove me wrong instead of insulting me dude. Um no youre a fool because i didnt make that post close to a deadline... imade that post and the only reason tje dau emded was voting not time. That being said i revising my opi.ion of you from fool to knave | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25552 Posts
On December 29 2011 09:42 VisceraEyes wrote: No trickery was intended BH, I simply meant it was one of the last contentful posts before the day ended, not that it was timed close to the end of the day. Just a misunderstanding, that. Oh really? My explanation there was just a repetition of whT i had previously said. The facr of the matter is youveother ognored or pretended to overlook my previous post, and only now thst your trickery is laid bare for a aecond time do you back down. Spy. | ||
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Blazinghand
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On December 29 2011 09:55 VisceraEyes wrote: /:| (that's a raised eyebrow...at you sir.) Calm down a second. First of all, you just got back from a failed mission, and you shouldn't be calling ANYONE spy. Now, I found your post suspicious REGARDLESS of when it was made. The content was what I had a problem with (if you'll kindly read MY post on the matter...which you're either ignoring or intentionally overlooking.) The fact that you Nay'd a team that included you (as town) doesn't make any sense. I can understand after N1 maybe because you have more information, but ALL you have to go on, as town, is YOUR alignment...so a team that includes you is more likely to succeed by virtue of yo being town. But I wouldn't expect a Spy like you to think in those terms.  Let me refer you to my previous post... which it seems you still have not read. Am i town? Yes. I like teams with me on them and will vote yay on them... unless of course they include obvious sxum like Radfield. I made a read and made a call. It's a vote i stand by. | ||
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Blazinghand
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Blazinghand
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.. that makes no sense at all. Given my reads and my knowledge i made the right call. I am severely dissapointed that others did not do the same. That being said, take a look at Radfield's voting pattern. He was trying to set up abquickhammer and didnt justify his team until called out. I would recommend swapping him out for sire tonight for these reasons. | ||
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Blazinghand
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On December 29 2011 10:13 VisceraEyes wrote: Radfield is by no means obvious scum. He may be obvious to you now because your mission failed N1, but at the time all he had done was post his team and given the reasoning behind it. You're reaching. Yes, I've read your post, please stop insinuating that I didn't. I'm done with this debate, I've given my thoughts on you and I consider the matter to be closed. All you continuing to antagonize me serves to do is make you more suspicious to me. Im notbtrying to convince you. Youbare scum. Thebpeople whose votes matter will seebthis convo and understand the truth. I klmade the right call. The matter wouldnt be closed if you were town because you would provide oegitimate arguments... ever. Defend yourself! | ||
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Blazinghand
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Then the mission failed. I think that Radfield needs to be swapped out-- and that's my case. | ||
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Blazinghand
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On December 29 2011 10:50 VisceraEyes wrote: Wait a second...the bolded statement seems to imply that you agree with Blaze that I'm SPAI, but all your previous posts seem to indicate that you think I'm NOT SPAI. Please clarify. ._. another case of VE not reading my posts? The PS post was the one in which I indicated you were not a knave, but rather, a fool. Aside: Zona hasn't posted yet. Is he MIA or was this a planned holiday AFK? | ||
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Blazinghand
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On December 29 2011 11:11 VisceraEyes wrote: Why Zona in particular Blaze? Only 4 people in the game HAVE posted so far, were you expecting to hear from Zona early or something? Hm, good point. What's the deal with all these AFK people? | ||
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Blazinghand
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On December 29 2011 11:10 GreYMisT wrote: wait, did you not just say you will vote nay for any team with the previous night's members....and then just said you will vote yay for teams with you on them? Also why would we be worried about a quickhammer on a day1 team. we have almost 0 info on teams day one as this is a game of logic. we have to send someone, and rad's picks made sense. ?? I will vote nay for teams with the previous nights members who aren't me. ._. Also, I will vote yay for teams with me on them. However, as always, this is subject to things like "obvious scum on a team" which I will vote nay for, etc. The fact of the matter is, the quickhammer on the day 1 team is the reason we have so little info now re: reads on people and their reasoning and post history. Do you really think that there's no way to make a read day 1? I disagree. I made a read, and I was right. The fact of the matter is, a quickhammer on day 1 reduced our information and our histories of people's posting here on day 2. | ||
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Blazinghand
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On December 29 2011 11:15 GreYMisT wrote: Zona has posted, dont you people read? OH LOL YOU'RE right. It just feels sort of non-postey I guess. Can someone make a list of filters or something. | ||
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Blazinghand
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On December 29 2011 11:27 GreYMisT wrote: how were you right? that radfield is for sure scum? I'm afraid I must not be privy to the same information that you are. What? I voted Nay on the team. Radfield was scummy... and then the mission failed. At the very least, from my personal view, you have to admit-- if I'm town, I'm a fucking G. I'm da man. I called it like I saw it and I was right. | ||
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Blazinghand
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On December 29 2011 11:31 GreYMisT wrote: If your town you shouldnt worry about how this is making you look. Instead you are...interesting ?? If I'm town I should totally worry because IF I AM THE ONE WHO GETS REPLACED WE LOSE ANOTHER MISSION. are you kidding me? I should try as hard as I can to make sure the other dudes get replaced instead of me... since I know the traitor is one of them two. If I'm town, it is exigent that I try as hard as possible to look good. ._. Have you even thought this through? | ||
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Blazinghand
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On December 29 2011 11:49 GreYMisT wrote: yes i have, but the best way to look town is to not say: guys look how town I am. who would you send on the next mission? Did I say "guys look how town I am" in the post you quoted initially? no I said "if I am town I am a baller" I think it's reasonable to say that if I am town, I am a HUGE baller. After all, if I'm town I totally called it on the first day and Nay-voted that scum-infested team. :D I'm not sure who I'd send on the next mission. If I were leader I think I'd bring myself, obviously, but I think I'd interrogate some of the people who haven't posted much to try to get reads. I'd also try to ask people what they think about Palmar and Radfield and whether it's possible Palmar is scum. If most people agree with me, I'd replace Radfield with a town-looking player. | ||
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Blazinghand
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Why would it be better to send a Vet than a non-Vet? Any particular reasoning behind that? | ||
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Blazinghand
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On December 29 2011 13:15 GreYMisT wrote: After thinking about it for a bit, im starting to think it might be a better idea to create a new team of 4 players as someone else mentioned. Here is why: the scientific method of just changing one thing in the system no longer works at the moment, because we have to add 2 members instead of just changing out 1, thus impeding our efforts to find the spies. of course a new group of 4 does bring its own risks, but we now know at least one of the 3 spies is among rad, palmar, and blazing. Thoughts? A new team of 4 player is literally the worst possible move behind "A team that includes all three of the night 1 players". Assuming there was 1 and only 1 spy in the 3 who went last night, there are 2 in the 6 who didn't go. This means that if we pick 4 players who didn't go, IT'S SUPER DUPER EASY TO PICK A SPY IN THERE AND SUPER DUPER HARD TO MAKE THE ONE POSSIBLE COMBINATION THAT DOESN'T HAVE A SPY. If you don't want throw this game you have to pick some people from last night AND some people who didn't go last night, imo. There's a possibility there was 2 spies on board rather than 1 last night, in which case it would be reasonable to pick entirely from the people who didn't go, but we can't know that. | ||
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Blazinghand
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On December 29 2011 19:24 Palmar wrote: It is highly unlikely there were two scum on last day's team, I've gone through both Rad's and Blazinghand's filters, and neither of them posted anything that can be called out for being communication about whether or not they'd sabotage. The closest thing is this post from Blazinghand which could possible be him claiming he'd not sabotage: On December 29 2011 19:25 Palmar wrote: Stuff like this is the reason I said there should be absolutely no talk about Spy strategies. Yeah well you hadn't mentioned that yet at the time I made that post man D: Also that was made WRT: 2 "vets", 1 "me" etc, in a post talking about a plan for Radfield given that certain assumptions with which I disagreed were true. You didn't mention the "don't talk about spy strategies" tip (a useful tip, btw) until the 27th. I wasn't breaking the rule. | ||
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Blazinghand
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And when Radfield did suggest a shitty ass team (because it included him, who was scummy), I voted against it. Did Jackal hammer it? yes. But it's worth noting that Radfield tried to be the hammer. He didn't vote for his own team until I called him out for it. That being said, Jackal did hammer. Guys need to be more careful with their hammers man. That ALSO being said, I find this current team with VE to be somewhat unacceptable. I am not comfortable voting Yay for it at the moment. | ||
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Blazinghand
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I see no reason to vote anything but Nay for this team. At LEAST it's not the terrible "4 people who didn't go last night" team AND it's not the "team with both radfield and palmar", but we seriously need to do better than this. A clean team tonight is basically worth 2 points since the 3rd mission is the same size as the 2nd mission. I'm voting Nay. | ||
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On December 29 2011 23:09 Radfield wrote: You are basically blatantly contradicting yourself. A) " I will not vote for any team which includes someone from day one", B) "at least it's not the terrible suggestions that I made". An additional contradiction: You are stating over and over that I am obvious scum, yet you are refusing to vote for any team that includes Palmar. Yet if you think only 1 scum went on the mission, and you are positive it was me, you should be backing Palmar to be included in the Day 2 mission. Yet you are stating the opposite. ^Look at this quote! You state I am the obvious scum on the team, yet you will not vote for any team with Palmar. That is brutal. In case it's not clear, when I initially said "I don't want any teams with Radfield or Palmar" I hadn't actually realized that the day 2 team was a 4-man team. My suggestion for the team composition is a suggestion for 3 people in that post. Novice mistake: On December 30 2011 04:08 GreYMisT wrote: Wait you say this, then you shoot down my idea to not include members from the day1 team, which is essentially the exact same thing you say here? Once I realize the team includes 4 people, it's fairly clear that it's very difficult to have a functioning team with 4 people who all didn't go last night. So, to reiterate: I will vote nay on a team that includes both Radfield and Palmar, since this team is guaranteed to fail. I will vote nay on a team that includes nobody from the N1 team, since this team is BASICALLY guaranteed to fail. I like teams with me on them, but will vote nay on them if I think they include scum. The fact that you guys couldn't figure out how to vote Nay on Radfield's obvious scum play yesterday isn't my fault. | ||
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On December 30 2011 03:32 TruthBringer wrote: If you are a truly townie leader, trust yourself, not the concensus. If you trust the concensus, you may be allowing yourself to be influenced by the spies. Obviously each leader should provide a team that he believes is good. Also obviously there are spies. That being said if you say "hey guys what do you think" then, before everyone gets a chance to respond, slap down a team, well, don't expect to be too successful. | ||
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Zona is voting nay on himself I will follow suit. I am accessing via phone and will have acess to a keyboard later tonight for adressing other queries | ||
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Gos why does nobdoy read anybodybelses posts in this game | ||
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On December 29 2011 21:00 Zona wrote: I agree that it's most likely that there was only 1 spy on the mission last night. However, all of you should not take my ( It's for this reason that if Truth's team is rejected, I will forgo choosing a team and all of you should just vote nay on me. That means GreY should start thinking about what team to propose. As for Truth's team, I'm still mulling over whether or not Truth is likely town, because I think whether or not the team is good solely depends on if Truth is town. Here greymist i help u | ||
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I wish anyone read ppkls posts | ||
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Ya On December 29 2011 21:50 Zona wrote: meh ##vote Zona: nay | ||
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Votes for current team: Yays: Nays: Zona Blazinghand Herr i help u | ||
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On December 30 2011 11:50 Jackal58 wrote: I don't want your approval scummy. Get a bigger phone. Other ppl agree that youe idea is dumb are wr all scum then | ||
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Re. Jackal58: Ladies and Gentlemen, in light of his hammering the D vote and his proposition of a nearly-sure-to-fail team, I find myself strongly suspicious of him. This suspicion is only further compounded by his non-response to by questioning the wisdom of his ideas-- especially given the risks involved with picking a team entirely from people who didn't go last night, risks that we are all aware of and are generally unwilling to take. Unless I am further convinced, I will vote nay on any team including him OR proposed by him as Leader. Re. Radfield's Incessant Badgering and non-reading of my posts: Seriously Radfield? I consider Radfield to be scummy due to his actions which include a deceptive voting pattern for his own team d1, and his lack of justification for his own team d1, both of which are things I called him out on and he only rectified after I did so. In any case, if I had to pick a team at the moment, I think I'd pick myself, Palmar, and 2 additional players-- PROBABLY Toadesstern... and the last pick is tough. I'd probably badger zona to try to get a better read, but, failing that, ... UGH i guess it would be between Greymist and VisceralEyes. Probably Greymist, but i'll have to go back through VE's posts to get a better read on him. You also ask "well what if you had to select a team without yourself on it" and my answer to that is "I categorically refuse to make a team without myself when I am leader." But yeah my chief concerns here are Radfield and Jackal as far as mafia goes. There's still some possibility that it was Palmar and not Radfield, but I think it's Radfield. | ||
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Palmar is town because Radfield is scum and there was 1 spy onboard last night (probably). Also he hasn't been acting untownlike. Toaddestern is town because he did good math and is trying to help. Greymist is town (I think) because he's posting and trying to be helpful. His somewhat lax reading comprehensive skills and questionable knowledge of probability do not help him here but I'm torn between him and VE for this place. So Palmar, your case against me is "Radfield is town". This is reasonable. If you a town player believe Radfield to be town, logically I must be scum. HOWEVER I'm not a fan of the way Radfield didn't vote for his own team, didn't follow up on his initial logic discussion re: team composition for day 1 leading into his team, and furthermore didn't try to justify or defend his choice of team until after I called it out of him. This leads me to believe he was scum. You clearly find these arguments unconvincing. Why is that? | ||
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He's scummy because he didn't provide any justification for his team whatsoever until after I called him out for offering no justification whatsoever, and ALSO didn't vote for his team until I called him out for not voting for his team. Was it good that the jackal hammer happened? No. Although that lets us know Jackal is a scummy bastard, it also choked off our vital D1 discussion and caused us to lose our initial mission. If there had been more time, things D1 could have been different. | ||
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THAT BEING SAID if people are gonna be like "hey man i'm just straight up not reading posts in this thread nor am I reading the voting thread" you will all be subject to my typo-ridden remonstrations again. I won't be in a car this time though so It won't actually be typo-ridden and I will have time to correct them, etc. Also, "Jackal hammer" kinda looks like "jackhammer". heh. night | ||
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On December 30 2011 22:12 Radfield wrote: The fact that you are harping on these things when they not remotely scummy makes you look very very bad. I don't believe you. I don't think you found me scummy at all until after I proposed the team. A team which you were a part of, and a team which you knew would fail. You voted against a Day 1 team including yourself which is absurdly scummy. You are desperately trying to paint me as scum(not to mention ignoring me and constantly repeating yourself) because it otherwise becomes obvious that you are scum. See, I think you don't believe me because you're scum and you have no reason to believe me. I think you deliberately picked me to be part of your team because of my response to your initial post, thinking that I would be a good "fall guy" for when the team failed. I think you're scum, and I thought that yesterday. See, you claim that it's scummy to vote against a team with myself on it. However, imagine the following situation: A day 1 team is proposed, and I am on it, but so is a very very scummy player. A player so scummy that I actually think that the team is more likely to fail than normal, even taking into account that I am a town player. Naturally, I vote against the team. Then, said player and his scumbuddy hammer home the discussion, ending Day 1 and sending us to the night phase. If I were a scum player, and you are not a scum player, and you pick me for the team, it's true I could play some longwinded game of "oh hey guys I think radfield is scum, i'm gonna nayvote this team." I could stick my neck out for no real reason and take on these arguments, drawing a great deal of attention to myself. I don't think that would make a lot of sense though. A mafia player who had the good fortune to get picked day1 certainly wouldn't vote against his own team. If he was trying to abdicate his responsability for the vote, he'd just not vote at all. And he certainly wouldn't pick out one guy and label him scummy. On the other hand, if I'm a town player, I identified a bad team and voted nay on it, even though I was on it, because I want town to succeed. Oh, hey, that actually sounds like a simple, clear, and non-convoluted explanation for why my actions make sense! | ||
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But yeah you're basically scum for hammering that. I mean you could also be super terrible but *I* think you're scum and until you can convince me otherwise I will nay any team proposed by you or containing you. | ||
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On December 31 2011 02:34 Jackal58 wrote: I don't need to speculate on my towniness. Correction: you have not chosen to defend yourself. You shun the spotlight because you're worried about being revealed for what you are. | ||
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I find greys team to be reasonable and probably rhe best team that csn be put tofether without me on it so i willvote yay | ||
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A ) ir team is formatyed wrong u nwed to repost it i think B) y u no vote own team? I unvote you | ||
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Also i preemptive nayvote rad while at it | ||
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When you do i will yayvote | ||
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On December 31 2011 05:14 Radfield wrote: Why did you not try to persuade other players to vote nay against my team? Why, when you were obviously around and apparently already thought I was scum, did you wait 3 hours before nay voting my team? Why have you ignored this post that I made: post. I say ignore, because you have not called me a liar, and you keep pretending I haven't responded to that argument. Why did you only post your reasons for nay voting my team when you got called out by Greymist? You state I was obvious scum at that point yet you did nothing to stop my team from going through. In fact it appears you would never have posted in depth your reasons for voting against my team unless greymist had called you out. Do you deny that? Radfields strat is to ignore my questions and make other questions fine i will wait for keyboard to respond to you greymist you got a yayvote from me but ur slef-yayvote post is miformatted | ||
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On December 31 2011 05:17 Radfield wrote: Yeah, I pretty much agree with your team, but would like to swap you out for me. Hope you understand  If Toad is willing to run me, him, palmar and VE I will nay vote you and yay vote him. If he is not willing to run that team than I will approve your team, as I feel it is second best. However, I admit I am not particularly willing to yay vote a team that has blazinghand's support... what is this if you are like "oh i think this team is god but i would swap gm 4 me" and it's like "hurr durr i am scum and want excuse to nayvote so i will antiparrot bh" scum move imo | ||
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that @ all ur voting post | ||
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On December 31 2011 05:28 Blazinghand wrote: Indeed you make a fair point; let me note however that it makes sense from the "rad is scum" perspective. I don't know if you, good sir, have been paying much attention, but in my opinion many things radfield says do not make sense, as part of an intentional attempt to obfuscate our discussions | ||
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On December 31 2011 02:23 Blazinghand wrote: See, I think you don't believe me because you're scum and you have no reason to believe me. I think you deliberately picked me to be part of your team because of my response to your initial post, thinking that I would be a good "fall guy" for when the team failed. I think you're scum, and I thought that yesterday. See, you claim that it's scummy to vote against a team with myself on it. However, imagine the following situation: A day 1 team is proposed, and I am on it, but so is a very very scummy player. A player so scummy that I actually think that the team is more likely to fail than normal, even taking into account that I am a town player. Naturally, I vote against the team. Then, said player and his scumbuddy hammer home the discussion, ending Day 1 and sending us to the night phase. If I were a scum player, and you are not a scum player, and you pick me for the team, it's true I could play some longwinded game of "oh hey guys I think radfield is scum, i'm gonna nayvote this team." I could stick my neck out for no real reason and take on these arguments, drawing a great deal of attention to myself. I don't think that would make a lot of sense though. A mafia player who had the good fortune to get picked day1 certainly wouldn't vote against his own team. If he was trying to abdicate his responsability for the vote, he'd just not vote at all. And he certainly wouldn't pick out one guy and label him scummy. On the other hand, if I'm a town player, I identified a bad team and voted nay on it, even though I was on it, because I want town to succeed. Oh, hey, that actually sounds like a simple, clear, and non-convoluted explanation for why my actions make sense! Your response is a complicated vague convoluted explanation for my actions: On December 31 2011 04:40 Radfield wrote: Before I proposed my team, what made me very very scummy? Please elaborate. Allow me to lay out a simple, clear and non-convoluted explanation for your actions as scum: You are scum, you are placed on the Day 1 team, knowing you will sabotage the mission and that it will fail you immediately seek to both distance yourself from the team, while simultaneously casting suspicion on another player on the mission. It's pretty classic scum play actually. Townie is getting lynched, scum pops in towards the end and yells about how dumb the lynch is and how said player is obviously town. 10:26 Radfield proposes a team 10:29 Blazinghand questions the reasons for the team 10:31 Radfield posts his reasons for his team Over the next 3 hours 3 people vote yes for my team. I had not yet voted so that makes it already at 4 votes, making the team virtually assured. At this point Blazinghand returns to the thread and votes against my team calling me scummy. Keep in mind at this point the team is pretty much already assured to go through. Blazinghand then makes a number of posts, but none of them related to the team or voting. In fact, other than when he is directly asked by Greymist he does not mention the team. He is obviously around in the thread(answers greymist 10 minutes after the question is asked) but is not trying to stop players from voting for my team. Think about this for a second. Blazinghand is sure that I am OBVIOUS scum. So sure is he that I am scum, he is voting against a team which includes himself on Day 1. Yet despite his sureness, he makes absolutely no effort to dissuade other players from voting through my team. This is a team he is almost sure is going to fail, yet he waits for 3 votes before mentioning in passing that he will not vote for my team. Even after he states his 'nay' intention he makes no effort to halt the team from getting passed. Blazinghand is a spy You seriously think that's a legit response? You are aware the townspeople in this thread are not the chief producers of warm linens and undergarments. They are not notorious for their fluffy hair and affinity with semi-nomadic herders. Basically what im saying is: they are not sheep. Anyone who reads your post and thinks "oh yes this is a good strat that scum would do and this would be a reasonable choice" is clearly an idiot, or hasn't though things through. If you want a good strat for scum check out jackal's weaving and dodging You are probably the only one who finds me over-the-top scummy, because any reasonable person is thinking "wait blazinghand in addition to being generally sexy, suave, likeable, and basically a great guy, is making some good points here. Let me think about this. Like, how is it not the best explanation that I 1) fingers you as scum 2) is like "hey guys lets think about this before voting 3) try to stop the quickhammer and you're like "hey man why you not try to stop it harder" well you know what I did what I could. maybe I could have done better but I didn't think people would be all over that terrible team like a dog on a butt-flavored biscuit. | ||
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That being said this is a great case against rad. also that whole thing was "assuming rad's assumption was true" but i do not think it is true | ||
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Zona you think me + rad are spy right... but... if we are "pretending" to disagree one of us will be yay and one will be nay on most teams am i correct? each of us will say "wellt he other guy is a spy so i dont' like teams he likes" but then why in this case is it that the team is no good? if radfield were yay and I were nay would it be good? or do we both need to vote nay on a team for it to match your approval? In fact if your theory is correct palmsr is town right?? I dont see why you votr nay | ||
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Happy new years Brb hangovr | ||
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Also VE what makes you think Palmar is a bro and not a spy | ||
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On January 02 2012 08:19 Blazinghand wrote: Actually I'm unvoting my nay; it's possible that Palmar is the true villain here. Oh hey look its a post by blazinghand that's nto being read let me translate for you "since palmar was on both teams, i admit there's a possibility that he sabotaged n1 and I was wrong about radfield-- that being said, i'm not ready to yay-vote this team" | ||
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33% chance of Blazinghand 33% chance of Palmar 33% chance of Radfield What are (randomly) the odds of 1 spy on d1 team? there's a 1/3rd chance for the first guy to be a spy, right? so assuming that, for the other two not to be spy, there is a 3/4ths chance to not pick the 2/8 ppl who are spies, then a 5/7ths chance not to pick the 2/7 people who are spies, meaning there is a 1/3*3/4*5/7 = 0.1786 of the first guy being a spy "but wait blazinghand" you say "what if the first guy is town, then the second guy is spy? well don't worry man, i can help you with that. Check this: the odds of the first guy being town is 2/3rds, right? well ok if the second guy is a spy there's a 3/8ths chance of getting him as spy, then if the third guy is a town, there's a 5/7ths chance of him being town... which comes out to 2/3 * 3/8 * 5/7 = 0.1786 of the second guy being a spy "oh shoot blazinghand" you say "how does that work?" well, we're just multiplying probabilities, so the order doesn't matter, right? The one thing we can determine for sure is that it should be the same probability of a single person on that team being a spy. That makes sense, yes? Adding these three probabilities together, the probabilities come out to 53% chance of exactly 1 spy on N1 team! That still leaves a lot of room for the possibility of 2 spies N1. What are the odds of 2 spies on the d1 team? The odds of there being 2 spies means that after there has been picked a spy (1/3rd chance) there is another spy pick, either immediately (1/4 chance), and then the third spy ISN'T picked (6/7) chance or there is a town pick then a spy pick (the other 3/4 of the time, there is a 2/7 chance of a second spy). (1/3) * (2/8) * (6/7) = 0.0714, and with three combinatorial routes, this leaves us with a 21% chance of 2 spies on D1. Well, what about the remaining 26% chance? There is a small but non-zero chance that there were no spies D1 (which wasn't the case, but for completeness sake) and the odds of that would be 2/3rd * 5/8 * 4/7 (order irrelevant) which gives us a 23% chance. There's also a very small chance that the mission actually contained 3 spies, which would be a 1/3rd * 2/7 * 1/6 = 1.5% chance. Very small. Now you're probably thinking "Wait why would there be 3 spies N1, Blazinghand? that sounds horribly unlikely and sub-optimal for the spies, doesn't it?" Why yes, reader, that DOES? See, the thing a raw probability calculation like this leaves out is that in every situation, there's a chance that the spy is Radfield, rather than Blazinghand or Palmar. See, if Blazinghand or Palmar is the spy, that has no impact on whether the other dude (Blazinghand or Palmar) is the spy. However, if Radfield is the spy, he's the dude who put together the team. He could easily chose to include 1, 2, 3, or 0 spies regardless of probability. This makes things much more interesting. Now imagine you're Radfield. This means you are a spy and are totally devious and smart etc etc. So you lucked into a d1 captainship, and you get the feeling people are gonna sheep all over you. You posted a question and some people have made some vaguely scummy d1 posts (Zona, Blazinghand both made posts prior to Greymist's warning about posting anything that could be used as spy meta). What's an optimal strategy? Well, as Radfield, you'd pick your scumbuddy Palmar, who has been judiciously silent, and Blazinghand. Blazinghand, being the mad nerd baller that he is, will nayvote the team, looking even scummier, but luckily the (now probably not) scum Jackal comes in and hammers the vote. Now, you get into a big long argument with Blazinghand and Palmar sort of chills. Townies, operating under the assumption that there was 1 spy N1 (when really there were two-- you sabotaged and palmar did nothing, so it looked like there was only 1 spy), are not going to select an "only new dudes" 4-man team. They don't want to select Blazinghand, because you've made a case against him. And, despite (or because of) your best efforts, Blazinghand has made a case of sorts against you. Naturally, the pick Palmar. You wait until a team of 3 townies plus Palmar gets suggested, and of course it passes-- nobody wants a team with Blazinghand on it, and you are vaguely suspicious to some. Palmar sabotages, and now things are looking scary. People immediately assume it's not Palmar, even though he's the common article between the two missions. Some people are like "Well radfield isn't confirmed town any more" and some people are suspicious of Palmar, but Blazinghand is still on everyone's scum list... and then your Third man swoops in, Zona, who busts out this big "Blazinghand and Rad are working together" theory and it doesn't really make sense but people buy it because people will buy things when they're desperate. Zona took a hit earlier during the "is this a scum strat being said" deal, but things start to make sense. Radfield/Blazinghand/Zona? could be. Radfield/Blazinghand/someone else? maybe. But these people aren't paying attention to the facts and the facts are that Radfield is scummy and the ONLY REASON HE WOULD BRING ME D1 when I looked scummy would be to entrap me as he has! it's an elaborate plot | ||
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In any case, I'm beginning to think Zona is a spy, in cahoots with an elaborate Rad/Palm scheme. it's kind of a long shot but it makes sense given what's happened so far. | ||
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Which is saying "on day 1, palmar or blazinghand (or both) were spies (rad town), and on day 2, palmar VE (or both) were spies (greymist, toad town)" it's also saying "zona doesn't look scummy" and i have serious reservations about zona. I think i'm going to nayvote this team after all. | ||
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Here are some general thoughts: 1) I do not trust Radfield. Radfield's actions d1 still are suspicious to me. I'm fairly sure he picked me for his team even though I looked scummy due to the "don't talk about spy meta" thing specifically BECAUSE he wanted me to be a fall guy. Zona goes into detail about this in some posts. 2) I do not trust Palmar. He's been relatively quiet, which doesn't say much, but he was on both teams that lost, and I wouldn't put it past Radfield to pick Palmar d1. 3) I do not trust Jackal58 for previously mentioned reasons including Hammering. The fact that he hammered the N2 team is meaningless though 4) VE actually seems okay to me. He was aggressive towards me but didn't tunnel and didn't make too many factual errors. 5) Truthbringer is still suspicious for me. 6) Greymist seems kosher. I'm somewhat worried about his post-reading skills and math skills but he seems more town than not. 7) I'm distrustful of Zona for a) the scum meta post on d1 and b) the completely unreasonable conclusion that both Rad and I are mafia (????) and then being like "well i'm voting against this team because blazinghand is voting for it" when RAd and I almost always vote at odds. 8) Toadesstern has been wrong for the right reasons this game. He's been asking questions, and rather reasonably included Radfield on his team. The thing I don't trust about him was the inclusion of Zona. That being said, I'm not willing to trust Truthbringer over him, and Palmar and Radfield are both iffy, and jackal is suspicious, and if I trusted zona i wouldn't be suspicious of Toad in the first place. therefore, my team is Blazinghand, Toadesstern, VisceraEyes, and GreyMist. Gentlemen, start your nayvotes! Anyone who thinks i'm mafia, please nayvote immediately so we can move on. Anyone who's iffy or who thinks i'm town, ask questions and interact with me! We will have many fun times together, I promise. | ||
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Radfield, I don't believe your "town" read on me on day1 was legitimate. I think everyone thought i was mafia day 1 after I made this post: On December 26 2011 17:03 Blazinghand wrote: Team: Radfield (yourself, who is confirmed town to you), plus Zona (for example), plus someone who gives off a solid town read like, say, Blazinghand. If the mission fails, you can reasonably say "well I think this was Zona" (though others will not be able to do so). The beauty of this though is, assuming you're right about the "1 mafia among Zona/Palm/Rad", If your mission succeeds, you've pinned down a mafia member! (WIFOM alert: Mafia, knowing this, might intentionally not sabotage, etc). A post like this which shared spy information is very scummy, and several people pointed this out, which is why people were suspicious of both Zona and myself who made posts like this on day 1. It's why Zona didn't even bother making a team because people were probably gonna mass nayvote it anyways. In any case, I didn't like that you chose me day 1. Looking back on it, I think you were setting me up to be a "fall guy". It could be you just didn't think that was that big of a slip-up. That being said, a couple of other things (the unnecessary discussion of the 1/3 1/3 1/3 possibility, the delayed justification, whether you meant it or not) also compound that suspicion. In any case, I think my team is pretty solid. I think that most people will look at this team and think that the weakest link is Blazinghand. I, knowing myself to be town, suffer from no such doubts. This is a good team. | ||
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On December 31 2011 08:07 TruthBringer wrote: Toad is the sketchiest person on the team, in my opinion, but really he is just a null for me and I prefer him over Blazinghand or Jackal. On January 01 2012 12:28 TruthBringer wrote: I think it is more likely that 1 of Radfield and Blazinghand was a spy, and 1 of Greymist, Toadesstern, VisceraEyes is a spy. In that case, I would say Blazinghand is a spy and Toadesstern is a spy. Why do you think toad is a spy? I'd rather not bring a spy along on a mission. I'd like to hear your case. | ||
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On January 03 2012 07:56 Blazinghand wrote: Radfield, I don't believe your "town" read on me on day1 was legitimate. I think everyone thought i was mafia day 1 after I made this post: A post like this which shared spy information is very scummy, and several people pointed this out, which is why people were suspicious of both Zona and myself who made posts like this on day 1. It's why Zona didn't even bother making a team because people were probably gonna mass nayvote it anyways. In any case, I didn't like that you chose me day 1. Looking back on it, I think you were setting me up to be a "fall guy". It could be you just didn't think that was that big of a slip-up. That being said, a couple of other things (the unnecessary discussion of the 1/3 1/3 1/3 possibility, the delayed justification, whether you meant it or not) also compound that suspicion. Like, do Radfield's suspicious actions d1 strike you as normal and cautious, as Rad would normally play? Or do they strike you as Rad setting up a fall guy (myself)? Or do they strike you as "you are palmar, radfield's scumbuddy?" That being said, you still have some town cred-- having someone besides myself calling Zona out is great but now I wonder if there's some serious bus craziness going on or if one of you is actually not scum | ||
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On January 04 2012 00:07 Toadesstern wrote: Your first paragraph is essentially the reason BH already called me out ( I think it was BH, not sure right now). You're basicly saying that nayvoting something d1 is a bad thing. I don't see how that's a bad thing at all. You were suspicious because of your instant-yay vote before a team was suggested and BH was suspicious for contradicting himself. At least I thought so, don't know about the rest. Therefor I nay-voted the team because again, that's all I had at this point in time. I really don't like the style you're posting because it sounds a lot like "well since we don't see flips we will never know about people for sure, therefor we don't need to try and analayze people by what they're posting and should only go by math". I already told BH that that's not going to work. I don't know what you're talking about, but off hand I'd say "you can't rely on reads, only math" is not something I'd say, given that my chief argument for myself being town is "I voted nay on the d1 team due to a read" | ||
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On January 04 2012 01:37 Jackal58 wrote: I'm picking people I see as town. As much as I can see in this setup. I'd say one of either Palmar or Rad are spies. I don't really expect any team I propose to be accepted anyways. If you think one of either Palmar or Rad are spies, do you think I too am a spy and it was a 2-spy n1? Also, don't say "I don't really expect any team I propose to be accepted anyways" because even though *I* didn't expect my team to be accepted I did my best to make good reads and defend it, as should you. Proposing and voting on teams is good for us. | ||
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On January 04 2012 02:15 Radfield wrote: Does that mean you think Blazinghand is town Jackal? Jackal is totes scummy but I'd just like to point out that thinking i'm town doesn't make you scum ._. | ||
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On December 27 2011 10:31 Radfield wrote: Here is my reasoning. Palmar's only post, while brief, is an important piece of advice and not one I had even considered. Blazinghand seems townish and willing to reason out and his posting is sound. Radfield, I don't believe your "town" read on me on day1 was legitimate. I think everyone thought i was mafia day 1 after I made this post: On December 26 2011 17:03 Blazinghand wrote: Team: Radfield (yourself, who is confirmed town to you), plus Zona (for example), plus someone who gives off a solid town read like, say, Blazinghand. If the mission fails, you can reasonably say "well I think this was Zona" (though others will not be able to do so). The beauty of this though is, assuming you're right about the "1 mafia among Zona/Palm/Rad", If your mission succeeds, you've pinned down a mafia member! (WIFOM alert: Mafia, knowing this, might intentionally not sabotage, etc). A post like this which shared spy information is very scummy, and several people pointed this out, which is why people were suspicious of both Zona and myself who made posts like this on day 1. It's why Zona didn't even bother making a team because people were probably gonna mass nayvote it anyways. In any case, I didn't like that you chose me day 1. Looking back on it, I think you were setting me up to be a "fall guy". | ||
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On January 04 2012 05:11 Jackal58 wrote: I think BH is scum. I think there is a very high order of probability that either you or Palmar are as well. So you think there were 2 scum N1, one of which was me? Would you say you agree with Zona's analysis of "Blazinghand and Radfield are in cahoots"? | ||
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Also things are super confusing now that Jackal and I have the same portrait. In any case, I don't trust Palmar any more. I kinda trust Radfield a little more but I still don't know what his deal was with the D1 team. | ||
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I'd like to say that a team that includes me is a team with a higher success rate... include me in teams please. | ||
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Literally the only way a team that includes you would have a higher success rate would be that you're town, right? But we're all claiming town. That's how this setup works. Like, obviously NOW that you've made the second post it's like "oh, ok VE is just thanking me, Blazinghand, for including him in a team selection" but could you possibly understand how someone might interpret your post as a redundant and largely unuseful Town claim? | ||
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On January 04 2012 06:32 GreYMisT wrote: VE i would like to know who you think is the spy team. Blazinghand and Radfield same question. On January 04 2012 06:12 Blazinghand wrote: All my mocking aside, I do actually think VE is probably town... My current scumlist is Radfield, Palmar, Zona. ._. So i'm thinking Greymist just literally doesn't read my posts. Like, at first I was kind of joking but now i'm substantially more serious. | ||
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On January 04 2012 07:08 VisceraEyes wrote: BH, your flailing around and not making sense. But you sound town. So I'm at an impasse. :/ On January 04 2012 07:08 VisceraEyes wrote: Right now my scumlist includes Blazinghand, Toadeastern and Jackal but I barring some meteorically Town post from Palmar, I can't include him on a mission list I'd yay. I'm similarly biased against Radfield solely because he chose the first team that ended in failure. Statistically, it seems like D1 would be town favored, so the fact that our N1 ended in failure makes me mistrust Radfield, albeit a little irrational. OK I'M TOTALLY NOT DEFENDING RADFIELD but i feel the need to call out bad math. There's about a 50% chance of exactly one spy on a randomly-selected N1 team of 3 players. There's a 21% chance of exactly two spies on a randomly-selected N1 team of 3 players. Given that the first leader was chosen at random, there was a 33% chance of this leader being a spy, and a 67% chance of the leader being town. Assuming the leader is town, there's a (3/8) chance that the first guy he picks is a spy, and following that a 5/7th chance that the second guy he picks is town, leading to a 26% chance of one spy in permutation one. There's a 5/8th chance that the first guy he picks is a town, and a 3/7th chance that the second guy he picks is scum, leading to a 26% chance of one spy in the second permutation. If he makes two picks, there's a 3/8th chance the first pick is spy, and following that a 2/7th chance the second guy is spy, making it 12.5% chance he picked two spies to go with him. This means that, assuming Radfield is town, there was a 56% chance of him picking exactly one spy, and a 12.5% chance he picked two spies if he picked completely at random. My math from previously in the thread. + Show Spoiler + On January 02 2012 19:53 Blazinghand wrote: In the event of 1 spy on the d1 team: 33% chance of Blazinghand 33% chance of Palmar 33% chance of Radfield What are (randomly) the odds of 1 spy on d1 team? there's a 1/3rd chance for the first guy to be a spy, right? so assuming that, for the other two not to be spy, there is a 3/4ths chance to not pick the 2/8 ppl who are spies, then a 5/7ths chance not to pick the 2/7 people who are spies, meaning there is a 1/3*3/4*5/7 = 0.1786 of the first guy being a spy "but wait blazinghand" you say "what if the first guy is town, then the second guy is spy? well don't worry man, i can help you with that. Check this: the odds of the first guy being town is 2/3rds, right? well ok if the second guy is a spy there's a 3/8ths chance of getting him as spy, then if the third guy is a town, there's a 5/7ths chance of him being town... which comes out to 2/3 * 3/8 * 5/7 = 0.1786 of the second guy being a spy "oh shoot blazinghand" you say "how does that work?" well, we're just multiplying probabilities, so the order doesn't matter, right? The one thing we can determine for sure is that it should be the same probability of a single person on that team being a spy. That makes sense, yes? Adding these three probabilities together, the probabilities come out to 53% chance of exactly 1 spy on N1 team! That still leaves a lot of room for the possibility of 2 spies N1. What are the odds of 2 spies on the d1 team? The odds of there being 2 spies means that after there has been picked a spy (1/3rd chance) there is another spy pick, either immediately (1/4 chance), and then the third spy ISN'T picked (6/7) chance or there is a town pick then a spy pick (the other 3/4 of the time, there is a 2/7 chance of a second spy). (1/3) * (2/8) * (6/7) = 0.0714, and with three combinatorial routes, this leaves us with a 21% chance of 2 spies on D1. Well, what about the remaining 26% chance? There is a small but non-zero chance that there were no spies D1 (which wasn't the case, but for completeness sake) and the odds of that would be 2/3rd * 5/8 * 4/7 (order irrelevant) which gives us a 23% chance. There's also a very small chance that the mission actually contained 3 spies, which would be a 1/3rd * 2/7 * 1/6 = 1.5% chance. Very small. Now you're probably thinking "Wait why would there be 3 spies N1, Blazinghand? that sounds horribly unlikely and sub-optimal for the spies, doesn't it?" Why yes, reader, that DOES? See, the thing a raw probability calculation like this leaves out is that in every situation, there's a chance that the spy is Radfield, rather than Blazinghand or Palmar. See, if Blazinghand or Palmar is the spy, that has no impact on whether the other dude (Blazinghand or Palmar) is the spy. However, if Radfield is the spy, he's the dude who put together the team. He could easily chose to include 1, 2, 3, or 0 spies regardless of probability. This makes things much more interesting. Now imagine you're Radfield. This means you are a spy and are totally devious and smart etc etc. So you lucked into a d1 captainship, and you get the feeling people are gonna sheep all over you. You posted a question and some people have made some vaguely scummy d1 posts (Zona, Blazinghand both made posts prior to Greymist's warning about posting anything that could be used as spy meta). What's an optimal strategy? Well, as Radfield, you'd pick your scumbuddy Palmar, who has been judiciously silent, and Blazinghand. Blazinghand, being the mad nerd baller that he is, will nayvote the team, looking even scummier, but luckily the (now probably not) scum Jackal comes in and hammers the vote. Now, you get into a big long argument with Blazinghand and Palmar sort of chills. Townies, operating under the assumption that there was 1 spy N1 (when really there were two-- you sabotaged and palmar did nothing, so it looked like there was only 1 spy), are not going to select an "only new dudes" 4-man team. They don't want to select Blazinghand, because you've made a case against him. And, despite (or because of) your best efforts, Blazinghand has made a case of sorts against you. Naturally, the pick Palmar. You wait until a team of 3 townies plus Palmar gets suggested, and of course it passes-- nobody wants a team with Blazinghand on it, and you are vaguely suspicious to some. Palmar sabotages, and now things are looking scary. People immediately assume it's not Palmar, even though he's the common article between the two missions. Some people are like "Well radfield isn't confirmed town any more" and some people are suspicious of Palmar, but Blazinghand is still on everyone's scum list... and then your Third man swoops in, Zona, who busts out this big "Blazinghand and Rad are working together" theory and it doesn't really make sense but people buy it because people will buy things when they're desperate. Zona took a hit earlier during the "is this a scum strat being said" deal, but things start to make sense. Radfield/Blazinghand/Zona? could be. Radfield/Blazinghand/someone else? maybe. But these people aren't paying attention to the facts and the facts are that Radfield is scummy and the ONLY REASON HE WOULD BRING ME D1 when I looked scummy would be to entrap me as he has! it's an elaborate plot | ||
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If we nail it today it'll go to the ace match. | ||
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YOU BROUGHT UP STATISTICS. You are basic a read of off WRONG MATH. I corrected that math. Then you say "math is irrelevant" On January 04 2012 07:08 VisceraEyes wrote: Statistically, it seems like D1 would be town favored, so the fact that our N1 ended in failure makes me mistrust Radfield, albeit a little irrational. | ||
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VE wrote: Statistically it seems like D1 would be town favored I just pointed out that D1 literally isn't town favored. How can you try to cop out of that. How is this a thing. | ||
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On January 04 2012 07:31 VisceraEyes wrote: I'm not basing any read on any statistics. You'll notice that Radfield isn't on my scumlist. I said why I mistrust Rad, not why I believe Rad is scum. Your math IS irrelevant because it assumes totally random selection when Radfield didn't select totally at random. He chose based on the information inside the thread...which was obviously limited due to it being D1, but it was still enough for him to choose his team based on. It wasn't random, and it makes your argument that N1 is scum favored totally irrelevant because it wasn't random. Alright, I'll buy that argument. That's fair enough. What, then, was the meaning of this sentence? On January 04 2012 07:08 VisceraEyes wrote: Statistically, it seems like D1 would be town favored, so the fact that our N1 ended in failure makes me mistrust Radfield, albeit a little irrational. You mention that the failure N1 makes you mistrust Radfield. That's fine-- I feel the same way. But what's that first phrase there? On January 04 2012 07:08 VisceraEyes wrote: Statistically, it seems like D1 would be town favored, When you say "statistically" you mean "well, statistically but not using any math"?? | ||
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On December 26 2011 17:03 Blazinghand wrote: Team: Radfield (yourself, who is confirmed town to you), plus Zona (for example), plus someone who gives off a solid town read like, say, Blazinghand. If the mission fails, you can reasonably say "well I think this was Zona" (though others will not be able to do so). The beauty of this though is, assuming you're right about the "1 mafia among Zona/Palm/Rad", If your mission succeeds, you've pinned down a mafia member! (WIFOM alert: Mafia, knowing this, might intentionally not sabotage, etc). A post like this which shared spy information is very scummy, and several people pointed this out, which is why people were suspicious of both Zona and myself who made posts like this on day 1. It's why Zona didn't even bother making a team because people were probably gonna mass nayvote it anyways. There's no way a reasonable town player would have put me on the team, but Rad did. For this reason I think he is scum (that and his lack of justifications, and his lack of acknowledgment that he used the team I suggested he use...) | ||
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On January 04 2012 07:46 VisceraEyes wrote: Can you explain what you mean by the bolded statement? MAN ITS' LIKE NOBODY READS THE THREAD. Look, read the quoted post. This was a post that explicitly discussed mafia strategy. In case you don't know, the mafia don't have a QT in this game, so they can't communicate. Posts like this are very scummy-- I basically suggested a mafia strat and communicated vital information that would allow for a 2-man mafia team, one of which is Radfield, to have Radfield sabotage and the other player not sabotage with ease. this post is the reason everyone thinks i'm mafia, and zona (nominally) has a ridiculous "Rad and Blazinghand are scumbuddies" case, and also the reason we have a "no mafia strat discussions" rule. | ||
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On January 04 2012 07:55 VisceraEyes wrote: Okay, I thought that's what you were referring to, but I wanted to make sure. Seriously guy, you need to STOP saying people aren't reading the thread. I just said that I read the thread, I can assure you I've read the thread. I was asking about your phrasing. You phrased it like you had scum information to share. You phrased it like you're guilty. That's what I was asking about. You were referring to Palmar's post that makes it out to be scummy, I know that now...but what you said was "shared spy information" which caused my confusion. Yeah by "shared spy information" i meant "mentioned that the 2nd spy would intentionally not sabotage" Like, given that everyone seems to have a scum read on me, I ASSUMED that people would know WHY they had a scum read on me. However, of the 8 non-me people in the thread, 3 of them don't actually have a good reason and are mafia. The other 5 have a bad reason but don't realize it's bad. You could see how Zona's argument could be alluring. Yes, of course! Radfield and Blazinhand in cahoots. But really I'm being framed. However, Zona's arguments that Rad is scum are totally valid. | ||
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On January 04 2012 07:59 Blazinghand wrote: Yeah by "shared spy information" i meant "mentioned that the 2nd spy would intentionally not sabotage" Like, given that everyone seems to have a scum read on me, I ASSUMED that people would know WHY they had a scum read on me. However, of the 8 non-me people in the thread, 3 of them don't actually have a good reason and are mafia. The other 5 have a bad reason but don't realize it's bad. You could see how Zona's argument could be alluring. Yes, of course! Radfield and Blazinhand in cahoots. But really I'm being framed. However, Zona's arguments that Rad is scum are totally valid. Actually, hold on a sec-- assuming you didn't know about that post, why did you have a scum read on me? | ||
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+ Show Spoiler + On December 29 2011 08:00 VisceraEyes wrote: FoS Blazinghand Radfield has been catching a lot of flak for the way he chose his initial team...but the thing is, nothing can happen until we have some information, which we have now. I liked Palmar's post about people discussing Spy strategy, and I liked Radfield's posting d1...so that leaves me with Blazinghand. And he made this post just before the day ended. Like, if you're town and you're on the team, why would you want to cast suspicion on who picked you? I will insta-nay any team that includes Blazinghand. Smooches. On December 29 2011 09:55 VisceraEyes wrote: /:| (that's a raised eyebrow...at you sir.) Calm down a second. First of all, you just got back from a failed mission, and you shouldn't be calling ANYONE spy. Now, I found your post suspicious REGARDLESS of when it was made. The content was what I had a problem with (if you'll kindly read MY post on the matter...which you're either ignoring or intentionally overlooking.) The fact that you Nay'd a team that included you (as town) doesn't make any sense. I can understand after N1 maybe because you have more information, but ALL you have to go on, as town, is YOUR alignment...so a team that includes you is more likely to succeed by virtue of you being town. But I wouldn't expect a Spy like you to think in those terms. You revise to: + Show Spoiler + On December 30 2011 00:46 VisceraEyes wrote: Believe it or not, I was waiting to see which of Palmar or Radfield called you out on it. XD The fact that Palmar didn't doesn't sit well with me...but I'm still in favor of the 1 scum on N1 mission, and I still think that's Blaze at this juncture... Then... + Show Spoiler + On January 01 2012 16:21 VisceraEyes wrote: This post resonates with me. Toad has seemed to me to be kinda iffy with his suspicions. I'm rereading and keeping a particular eye on BH and Toad. and finally... On January 04 2012 07:08 VisceraEyes wrote: BH, your flailing around and not making sense. But you sound town. So I'm at an impasse. So basically your argument is that I nay-voted a team with myself on it on Day 1, but I sound town-- is this accurate? | ||
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On January 04 2012 08:22 VisceraEyes wrote: I've made the reasons I find you scummy crystal clear. I'm not going to try and convince you that you're scum Blaze. Like, VE, I want you to imagine-- IMAGINE that I'm not trying to get you to convince me that I'm scum, as you so cutely imply, but rather, I'm trying to convince you that i'm town, because we need to get today's team right. Imagine that basically everything I've done in this thread has been helpful, I've suggested good teams, and I've generally voted in an accurate fashion... Is it really so impossible, so unbelievably unlikely, that I'm just a massive baller (MASSIVE) and I fingered rad's day 1 actions as suspicious? Zona, acting on the same information (if you believe Zona's case) has done the same, putting together a case against both me AND Rad based on our day 1 actions. Do you think Zona's case is reasonable whereas mine was not? I think I made the right call. I think I'm a massive, massive baller. I'm an aggressive player. That's how I play. Check out my play in XLVII (my filter) or Student Mafia (my filter). I am often abrasive and I make calls based on my reads, and vote aggressively. That's what I do. I think my d1 play was fine (aside from that post which contained potential spy strat ._.) and my play in general is like this. If you think i'm mafia just because i'm aggressive, think harder. | ||
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On January 04 2012 08:39 VisceraEyes wrote: It was about the manner in which you nay-voted a team that included you, but yes. That's about the gist of it. And your content sounds town, like, you genuinely sound like you're trying to find scum - except you call everyone who disagrees with you scum or just bad and fall immediately to "LOOK WHO'S NOT READING THE THREAD HURRDURR" any time someone asks something of you, which is intensely scummy to me. TO BE FAIR, I don't say that to EVEYRONE who disagrees with me. For example, I think you're town and put you on my team, despite the fact that I was initially very aggressive in my interactions with you. Furthermore, although maybe I should back off on the "omg read the thread" stuff i've been saying, it does get somewhat aggravating when you get situations like this: On January 04 2012 06:12 Blazinghand wrote: All my mocking aside, I do actually think VE is probably town... My current scumlist is Radfield, Palmar, Zona. ._. On January 04 2012 06:32 GreYMisT wrote: VE i would like to know who you think is the spy team. Blazinghand and Radfield same question. I didn't think Greymist took 20 minutes to write that post, and given my previous "greymist isn't reading my posts" interactions, I was not very pleased. I'll lay off on the thread-reading stuff if it happens again and just quote relevant posts and make sarcastic smiley faces and ;_; faces in the future. In any case, if you're fine with my content but dislike my tone, do check out how my tone usually is-- it's possible you're just not a fan of my playstyle, which I get, but sometimes that's just how a brotha rolls Also Jackal it would be nice if you stuck around and cleared your name if you're town since we kinda need this mission to succeed. you know. | ||
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On January 04 2012 08:45 Jackal58 wrote: All I see are 2 failed missions and the people that were on them. A minimum of 2 are scum. Perhaps all 3 have been chosen. I have no clue. I tried to pick a team avoiding those that went on a prior mission that I think are spies. That's all I can do. Now I'm going out for the evening. Actually... a minimum of 1 who have been selected so far are scum. It's not impossible that Palmar alone sabotages both missions. | ||
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On January 04 2012 09:57 GreYMisT wrote: well, considering i said that i dont like both radfield and jackal, and that you pointed out a reason i should be worried about palmar, I would say a team of those players right now would be pretty strange. especially because our teams require 4 players now. I believe he's saying quite the opposite: that he thinks the SPY team is Rad/Palm/Jack. At least, I hope that's what he's saying >.> | ||
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At first I was like "lol jackal good attempt to dodge" then I realized TruthBringer would include Radfield AND Palmar ._. and now I am confused again. | ||
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On January 04 2012 16:46 Toadesstern wrote: Yeah and I'm going to nayvote that instantly because I think you're a spy. I actually don't see a reason why people should suggest VE at all. We thought VE's town d1 because of that one post he did. Now that he went lurking the read is literally a null at most. Are you now up-to-date with your post-reading? | ||
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On January 04 2012 16:50 Toadesstern wrote: kind of yeah. Still rereading because I only went fast to get done with it and focus on posts when I'm done with catching up but if you got something shoot me. So I've recently made a fairly comprehensive series of posts detailing my innocence and the scumminess of Rad/Palm. I was just wondering what your thoughts are on this post. | ||
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On January 04 2012 18:55 Palmar wrote: As proposed earlier: Palmar Radfield VisceraEyes Truthbringer I can't yay-vote a team with Palmar AND Radfield on it. We will immediately lose. Although it's possible one of you is town, it's not possible that you're both town. Palmar, if you really want to pass a team to convince me, you'll have to do better than this-- swap out Radfield for Greymist and i'd be happier. I'd still vote Nay, but i'd be happier. On January 04 2012 19:19 Palmar wrote: I have no words, that's such a far-fetched scenario, not only is Zona's initial case insane enough to be immediately discarded (not the notion that they both could be spies, but the reasoning behind it), but you're adding in that it's some kind of a crazy half-bus? There is no chance you're town. I don't think you're the real Palmar. The real Palmar plays like this: 1) identify obvious scum moves 2) one by one, identify town players, until it's clear who scum is 3) play cautiously and don't make mistakes There's two possibilities here-- you're either a mistaken Palmar or a scum Palmar. I think you're a scum Palmar, because town Palmar wouldn't say "there is no chance you're town". Town Palmar would just point out that Radfield is clearly town, and note that I have to be scum if both he and Radfield were Town. Town Palmar posts more and is better, so I think you're Scum Palmar. | ||
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On January 04 2012 22:11 Radfield wrote: I will back Palmars team, but I won't be voting on it in the Vthread just yet. I'm kinda putting all my eggs in the Palmar is town blazing is scum basket, but I'm ok with that at this point. VE is likely town, Truth is likely town. If there is scum on that team it is probably Palmar, but I doubt it. Radfield if you really don't know which of us is town and which of us is scum, wouldn't it make more sense to not take a risk and back a team that doesn't include Palmar? I don't see why you'd be a fan of this team. | ||
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I'm here. | ||
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11. If a team has not been decided on by the end of the day phase, the mission automatically fail! | ||
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On January 01 2012 10:12 Forumite wrote: [center]- Day 3 - Mission 3 require 4 participants! The day ends in just under 4 days, at 23:00 GMT (+00:00), or 08:00 KST the 5th of January, 2011. WE HAVE LIKE 3 HOURS GUYS | ||
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Can we get an extension or something here cause this is gonna be super lame | ||
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We just need 2 more people. We can make this happen. We must. | ||
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Blazinghand
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Blazinghand
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Palmar is Icelandic which means it's 9 pm for him right now-- he should be awake and online. | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25552 Posts
Look, EVEN if you think I'm scum, EVEN SO, you have to admit that currently, VE and I will not accept that team. If I'm town, I will never accept a Palm+Rad team since the N1 mission failed. We need every vote we can get to avoid an autoloss here Help us out. Also, Palmar is in the TLMafia IRC, so his computer is physically powered on. Dunno what he's up to | ||
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Blazinghand
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Blazinghand
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Blazinghand
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IT'S NOT OVER YET. There's still the possibility of THREE more town players stopping by in the next two hours. With 5 players we can nay down this team, then yay in your team. | ||
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Blazinghand
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Blazinghand
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Blazinghand
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Blazinghand
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Blazinghand
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But you have to understand, I cannot vote yay on a Palm/Rad team. You're voting yay on a team that includes half of your scumlist. I can only hope that a couple more people show up, and we salvage this game. | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25552 Posts
That being said, Toad seems unwilling to unyayvote Palmar, even though he thinks i'm town and the team includes Rad/Palm. At this point we just need to wait for more poeple to show up F5F5F5 | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25552 Posts
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Blazinghand
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All of this is just theoretical because at the moment it's just the three of us. | ||
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Blazinghand
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Blazinghand
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Blazinghand
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Blazinghand
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Regardless, we need one more person. | ||
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Blazinghand
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VisceraEyes, Greymist, Blazinghand, Zona thoughts? | ||
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Blazinghand
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Blazinghand
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Blazinghand
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Blazinghand
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And if VE is scum he certainly won't either, he'll stop the vote from going through... so if you are right about VE, we'll need an EXTRA person to pass a Palm/Rad team since I refuse to vote for a team I know will lose. And if you're wrong about VE, why are you voting yay on Palm/rad team? Vote nay. Do it. | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25552 Posts
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Blazinghand
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Blazinghand
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f5 f5 f5 I hope someone new shows up | ||
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Blazinghand
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Blazinghand
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f5 f5 f5 | ||
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Blazinghand
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Blazinghand
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Blazinghand
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Blazinghand
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Blazinghand
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Blazinghand
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Blazinghand
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Blazinghand
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Blazinghand
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Look Me, Rad and Palm were on the Day 1 team right? AND THAT TEAM FAILED If you think i'm town THEN YOU THINK PALMAR'S CURRENT TEAM WILL FAIL. These are the same statements: "Blazinghand is town" and "One of Palm/Rad is scum" If you think i'm town, nayvote that team NOW. | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25552 Posts
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Blazinghand
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Even if Toad does join our camp, we'll need an additional person. | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25552 Posts
We need Rad and Toad, or one of Rad and Toad and a new person, or two new people, and we can save this game. If you guys are town, come and save this game. Take us from a 0% success rate to a chance of winning. | ||
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Blazinghand
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Blazinghand
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Blazinghand
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join us VE: you'll have to repropose your team as soon as you become leader, I think. Be ready in case it happens in the last few minutes. | ||
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Blazinghand
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Blazinghand
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Blazinghand
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Blazinghand
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Blazinghand
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Blazinghand
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bulletin to people who don't have time to read this: vote yay on VE and nay on palmar, do it now, or we lose in 10 minutes | ||
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Blazinghand
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Blazinghand
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Blazinghand
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Blazinghand
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vote yay on VE. vote nay on Palmar | ||
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Blazinghand
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On January 05 2012 07:52 Radfield wrote: Weren't you popping around obs QT's? I seem to recall you making sense there. Yah, i make sense so hurry up and unvote palmar, nayvote him, and vote VE already | ||
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Blazinghand
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Blazinghand
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Blazinghand
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Blazinghand
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Blazinghand
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Blazinghand
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Blazinghand
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don't throw htis away radfield join us | ||
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Blazinghand
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I should have defended myself better I did what I could | ||
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Blazinghand
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Blazinghand
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Blazinghand
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the fact of the matter is a Rad/Palm team has 0 chance of winning and at least an attempt to try to get a VE team going would have been an honorable death | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25552 Posts
On January 05 2012 08:02 HarbingerOfDoom wrote: dat ending of the about 30 pages of play, 12 of them were in the last day | ||
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Blazinghand
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Blazinghand
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I did what I could to stop the day 1 train from rolling, I told people to think. I became more sure of it, and in hindsight I should have pushed harder. | ||
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Blazinghand
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Blazinghand
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Blazinghand
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you were like "i'll nay vote when more peopel are back" and then you DIDN'T. why didn't you | ||
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Blazinghand
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Blazinghand
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I'm honeslty surprised that it wasn't "everyone shows up for the final scramble"... The fact that people didn't vote in an election that ended in an autoloss is disheartening, to say the least. | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25552 Posts
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Blazinghand
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So wait if Zona wasn't scum, what was with that "Rad and Blaze are in it together" accusation? I thought for sure Zona was scum. | ||
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Blazinghand
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Blazinghand
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With 4 town players you can't get a majority of 5. | ||
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Blazinghand
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Blazinghand
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Blazinghand
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Blazinghand
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On January 05 2012 08:41 kingjames01 wrote: Just wanted to provide an outsider's point of view: In Resistance, one of the most effective ways to gain information is through the voting process. In fact, once the players become more experienced with the game, it is very common to go through multiple leaders each day. I was going to post some guides before the game began, but no one seemed interested enough. I was interested! I even posted links to other forum games of Resistance! D: | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25552 Posts
Radfield's accusations of me were all terrible, and the fact that he tunneled me didn't help. I didn't think he had a good reason, and I honestly still don't. It didn't make sense to me that, as a town player, Rad would grab someone who had made a "scumslip" AND be following my pattern BUT not admit it. The fact that he went after me rather than Palmar later on only further convinced me. Also, I don't know why everyone was obsessed with passing the first team that came by day 1, or that it's scummy not to do so. I saw a team that looked suspicious, so I nayed it. | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25552 Posts
On January 05 2012 08:44 Toadesstern wrote: Well that's it for me. 0:40 am and I'm going to get some sleep now. Good game guys, next time you should try to be a little more active. I can see how judging people (like zona or jackal) is hard when there's so little information. I don't think scum did well, not at all, but we were able to do whatever we wanted to do, given that nothing was happening. I have 14 pages of filter in a 38 page game | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25552 Posts
On January 05 2012 08:46 Palmar wrote: You had no valid reason for calling it suspicious, and it included yourself. Dude I totally did! The fact that I was wrong about radfield doesn't mean it wasn't a weird way he went about things. In fact, he was suspicious enough that Zona thought he was scum. | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25552 Posts
Obviously if I am unsure I will vote nay. But I thought he was scum. There IS information D1, and that's how Radfield picked me. He read me as town. I read him as scum, and so I tried to "unpick" him by voting nay and passing leadership to the next leader. | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25552 Posts
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Blazinghand
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On January 05 2012 08:54 Jackal58 wrote: This game is impossible to win as town. Strong disagree. Town only needs to win one of the first 3 missions, and mission 4 is free for them. Even near the end, if we had won N3, we'd also win N4 and have decent odds going into N5. I don't think we lost by a huge amount, honestly, despite the 3-0 score. | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25552 Posts
On January 05 2012 08:56 kingjames01 wrote: This is wrong too. Down-voting teams IS IN ITSELF a valid reason. You gain information about the other players and who THEY support. I agree with KJ. Ideally, we'd all be super active and everyone would have to propose a team D1 and people would vote, etc, and lots of info would get recorded, then a team would pass and we'd have several pages of votes and evidence to look through. | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25552 Posts
On January 05 2012 08:59 Palmar wrote: No, you always need a reason to downvote, because if you do it without reason, scum can do the same randomly if they're smart, and suddenly the voting patterns become useless. If you want to use voting patterns, they have to mean something. Randomly downvoting teams for the simple reason of downvoting them actually destroys evidence, instead of providing it. See, this is a fair statement, but on day 1 we didn't have any voting patterns-- the first team passed. If I voted yay, it'd have passed unanimously, and then where would we be? | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25552 Posts
On December 25 2011 18:52 Blazinghand wrote: Here are some completed game threads I found on mafiascum to get an idea of how this plays out: http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=63&t=14194 http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=63&t=14193 http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=57&t=17111 http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=63&t=14946 In case people are looking for reference/research. Did anyone read through these sweet games? Look what happens in say, the second link. Guy proposes the first team and instead of everyone blind yayvoting, there's discussion, and tons of people vote nay, and it establishes a body of evidence, and the game goes on. | ||
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