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On January 04 2012 10:50 TruthBringer wrote:
At this point, I think it is okay to discuss spy strategy in the thread. All that matters is picking 4 townies for tonight and as someone already pointed out, if we do so, we get through night 3 and night 4.
Any communication that might happen between spies would have no negative impact for us, because as long as there is one spy on the team, we lose. Spy communication really only has a bearing on what they do if there are multiple spies on a given night, and our only hope is if there are zero spies tonight.
Oh look it's a spy.
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I already named 4 townies. Me, Palmar, VE, greymist.
I even named a backup 4 townies, (if people think it is too self-serving including myself) Radfield, Palmar, VE, greymist.)
The reason I think it is okay to discuss spy strategy now is that we might be able to figure out who the spies are from spy behavior. For instance, I didn't want to say it earlier, because the spies might actually have used it, but initially I thought that Blazinghand's nayvote on the first night was a signal to his spy teammate (Radfield) to say "I won't be sabotaging, you sabotage."
Since then, I've decided that Radfield and Palmar both seem town, so Blazinghand was just nay-voting to receive towncredit when he inevitably knew the mission would fail.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
So it couldn't possibly occur to you, even in the slightest, that I thought Radfield was scum? your entire case against me is "I nayvoted the day 1 team I was on, and I couldn't possible have thought Rad was scum"?
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On January 04 2012 12:44 Jackal58 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 04 2012 10:50 TruthBringer wrote:
At this point, I think it is okay to discuss spy strategy in the thread. All that matters is picking 4 townies for tonight and as someone already pointed out, if we do so, we get through night 3 and night 4.
Any communication that might happen between spies would have no negative impact for us, because as long as there is one spy on the team, we lose. Spy communication really only has a bearing on what they do if there are multiple spies on a given night, and our only hope is if there are zero spies tonight. Oh look it's a spy.
At first I was like "lol jackal good attempt to dodge" then I realized TruthBringer would include Radfield AND Palmar ._.
and now I am confused again.
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On January 04 2012 09:16 GreYMisT wrote:
Toad strikes me for the following 2 reasons. first he was on my team that failed. second is that he two began pushing blazing hard along with rad. The absense of a scum QT in this game leads me to believe that he wanted to follow rad with what he was doing, and discredit the easy target..
Holy we got a lot of text to read. I'm at this point and everything posted later on still needs to be read by me but that one got me posting because it's wrong.
Radfield was not the guy who started pushing BH. I was the very first guy who questioned him. If anything Radfield saw the need to follow my lead because we got no QT which I doubt as I think he's capable of doing decisions himself without having to follow a guy who's in his 5th game.
Quoting time (keeping it oldschool to not get a big ass post):
BH-Post-> My Question -> Radfields Question -> Explaining my intentions
So no, BH posted something weird. I asked him about this to get some information because the moment he said he aims for a successful mission I would have gone full nuts on him and Radfield literally did the same just without keeping the question open like I did. He just told him that his post is a problem and contradicting himself if he wants a successful mission. Followed by myself explaining that that's what I thought as well and therefore asked BH what he want's achieve in the first place.
Reading the rest now
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On January 04 2012 10:51 VisceraEyes wrote:
I'll insta-yay a team that includes VE, Greymist, Blazinghand, Zona
Just putting that out there.
Yeah and I'm going to nayvote that instantly because I think you're a spy. I actually don't see a reason why people should suggest VE at all. We thought VE's town d1 because of that one post he did. Now that he went lurking the read is literally a null at most.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
Well, if Radfield and you thought I was scummy, doesn't that makes it even WEIRDER that radfield would pick me for a team? Wouldn't that seem a little *off* to you? It seems off to me, which is the reasoning for my suspicion of radfield. Think about radfield's motivations here-- why would he bring me along, with almost now reasoning?
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On January 04 2012 16:46 Toadesstern wrote:Show nested quote +On January 04 2012 10:51 VisceraEyes wrote:
I'll insta-yay a team that includes VE, Greymist, Blazinghand, Zona
Just putting that out there. Yeah and I'm going to nayvote that instantly because I think you're a spy. I actually don't see a reason why people should suggest VE at all. We thought VE's town d1 because of that one post he did. Now that he went lurking the read is literally a null at most.
Are you now up-to-date with your post-reading?
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Team Rejected!
A team consisting of None has been rejected for this mission!
Final vote count:
Yays:
Nays: Radfield Blazinghand GreYMisT TruthBringer Toadesstern
The new leader is Palmar whose team is: None
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On January 04 2012 16:48 Blazinghand wrote:Show nested quote +On January 04 2012 16:46 Toadesstern wrote:On January 04 2012 10:51 VisceraEyes wrote:
I'll insta-yay a team that includes VE, Greymist, Blazinghand, Zona
Just putting that out there. Yeah and I'm going to nayvote that instantly because I think you're a spy. I actually don't see a reason why people should suggest VE at all. We thought VE's town d1 because of that one post he did. Now that he went lurking the read is literally a null at most. Are you now up-to-date with your post-reading?
kind of yeah. Still rereading because I only went fast to get done with it and focus on posts when I'm done with catching up but if you got something shoot me.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On January 04 2012 16:50 Toadesstern wrote:Show nested quote +On January 04 2012 16:48 Blazinghand wrote:On January 04 2012 16:46 Toadesstern wrote:On January 04 2012 10:51 VisceraEyes wrote:
I'll insta-yay a team that includes VE, Greymist, Blazinghand, Zona
Just putting that out there. Yeah and I'm going to nayvote that instantly because I think you're a spy. I actually don't see a reason why people should suggest VE at all. We thought VE's town d1 because of that one post he did. Now that he went lurking the read is literally a null at most. Are you now up-to-date with your post-reading? kind of yeah. Still rereading because I only went fast to get done with it and focus on posts when I'm done with catching up but if you got something shoot me.
So I've recently made a fairly comprehensive series of posts detailing my innocence and the scumminess of Rad/Palm. I was just wondering what your thoughts are on this post.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
Also, I'm nayvoting Palmar's team since I think he's scum.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
Alright i'm gonna get some sleep
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Well Palmar still gives me Townreads, so does Rad and so do you right now.
I'm actually willing to believe that the spy is either Rad or you right now as VE should be a spy as well just because of the fact that there was only 1 spy sabotage on d2.
But yeah I still agree that we should nayvote palmar because it's just too dangerous. Judging who was spy d1 is giving me headaches.
The big issue I have is that the next few leaders aren't exaclty nice as well:
Palmar (nay) -> VE (nay) -> Radfield (probably nay now?) -> Truthbringer (nay) -> Zona+Grey+Toad all okayish if the suggested teams are ok and we're kind of in a rush right now (given how long it takes a nay-vote a single guy...)
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As proposed earlier:
Palmar
Radfield
VisceraEyes
Truthbringer
For obvious reasons, I think. I am pretty sure the scum during the first night was BlazingHand, so Radfield and I are clear. It's almost certain that one of Zona or Jackal is scum, I'm leaning towards it being Zona due to the case against Radfield/Blazinghand, which is another reason why I think Radfield is clear. However, it's too risky to put Jackal on the team, and in my opinion Truthbringer looks a lot better (he is spot on that talking about spy strategies is completely fine now, since any and all spies on tonight's team would sabotage to end the game, they don't need to communicate anymore), and for some reason Jackal is attempting to call him scum based on it.
VisceraEyes started posting again, and I already had a decent townread on him since early in the game. I know scum and possibly some sceptical townies are going to vote against this team.
It's on my head by the way, this is what I could best come up with this game. I think the scumteam is Toad/Zona/Blazinghand, and I think Greymist/Jackal are the townies I've left out. I could obviously be wrong on either but I'm starting to think I am not.
To pass a team that has 4 townies on it, 5 townies (all but one) need to approve of it, so please take a long hard look on my reasoning and see if you agree with it. If you are town, you need to be seriously looking at this team.
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On January 04 2012 09:16 GreYMisT wrote:
Alright I am going to nay vote Jackal's team. I will admit that I don't have the best of reads this game, and from what I have seen everyone is kinda in the same boat when it comes to that. We are in a flipping terrible position, as we have very little room for testing and manuverbility at the moment. So im just going to throw out what I think, and hope that something sticks.
I have reevaluated the entire thread from a completely fresh point of veiw, and have come up with some different opinions.
I think the scum team consists of Rad, Toad, and Jackal, with my level of suspicion decreasing from left to right.
I would like to reiterate, none of my reasons are super awesome, but its what I got.
Radfield's posting and general attitude this game strikes me as different than the way he posts as town. because this is a different format than we are all used to this means almost nothing, but it made him warrant suspicion from me. what turns me off about him is the way he instantly shifted blame onto blazing, without even considering the posibility that palmar is scum. i feel a town radfield would be all over palmar to post more. Look at election mafia where they were both town. both of their activity levels were good and they were working together to find scum. here they are completely disjointed. next observe the way he dismisses zona's case as simply "bad" this also strikes me as slightly off. He also keeps saying "guys we need to work together and contribute" but he isnt really talking things over in the thread with most of us.
Again, not much. but w/e.
Toad strikes me for the following 2 reasons. first he was on my team that failed. second is that he two began pushing blazing hard along with rad. The absense of a scum QT in this game leads me to believe that he wanted to follow rad with what he was doing, and discredit the easy target.
Jackal is my weakest read. Something is just off about the way he is playing this game to me. also something that caught my attention was the way rad asked him his team earlier. this is something easy that scum would do to each other to look like they are contributing.
Palmar and VE, i would be eager to learn your thoughts on this.
I can completely relate to (and by the activity levels, most everyone can) posting slightly less this game. As I already explained, Radfield is posting exactly how I'd expect him to post. Maybe the volume is less than usual, but it's the content that matters.
Toad I agree with you on.
Jackal is... meh.... maybe Zona isn't scum, and just bad for that case, but I think the more likely scenario is that jackal is just lazy/apathetic. I would not dream of putting him on a team though, because he is very, very hard to read, especially when he contributes as little as he has done this game.
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On January 04 2012 09:35 VisceraEyes wrote:
Grey, can you not replace Radfield with Palmar and make exactly the same case?
This is essentially correct, doesn't tell us much about Greymist, he may just be lazy, or he may not have included all his reasons. The fact that VE notices makes VE more likely to be town.
On January 04 2012 09:56 Blazinghand wrote:
Something like that makes sense, but why are we discounting the possibility of a Radfield/Palmar/Zona team? Unless Zona's D1 "slip-up" was an honest mistake like mine... in which case Zona's "there were two spies N1" theory could apply to Rad/Palm.
I have no words, that's such a far-fetched scenario, not only is Zona's initial case insane enough to be immediately discarded (not the notion that they both could be spies, but the reasoning behind it), but you're adding in that it's some kind of a crazy half-bus?
There is no chance you're town.
On January 04 2012 10:06 VisceraEyes wrote:
The thing is, the more I think about it, the less scummy it seems to be to 'discuss scum strategy'....I mean, it makes sense at first glance, but I'm having trouble finding an upside to keeping everyone in the dark as to how scum might operate at this point in the game. It's LYLO, or the Resistance equivalent of such. We need as much information as possible to make this mission a success.
This is correct. The fact that both VisceraEyes and Truthbringer brought this point up reinforces my town read on them. The scum, knowing that I'm not scum, are much less likely to go directly against something I've basically laid down as policy for the town.
It's a town trait to break the rules at the correct moment, and at the moment, it has no impact upon the game to discuss spy strategies. The reason I didn't want people to do it initially was obviously so that there was no chance of spies slipping messages into their posts, thus being able to only single-sabotage on a double-spy team, which is immensely beneficial to a spy team, since it basically is giving us a false list check.
so yeah, today it doesn't matter, we're equally fucked if there is one spy or more spies on the team, so they have no reason to try and communicate anything like this.
But I think the original policy served is purpose, obviously there are some people that are trying to push the idea there was more than one spy on the first or second day, but really, if I put myself in the spy position on day 1, with no information, and no solid clues from a partner, I'd sabotage every time, and by assuming that everyone else would do the same, I think the chances of there being 2 spies on day 1 or 2 are very slim.
which means the information we have is 2 list checks of 1/3 mafia and 1/4 mafia, in addition, I (and most people who are actually reading the thread) know that there are 2 different mafia on those two teams.
The goal here is to find 4 townies, if you want, you can look for 3 scum and then exclude 2 scummy townies, but the ultimate goal is to find 4 townies.
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
Blazinghand, you keep writing that people found you scummy on Day 1, and therefore it was strange for me to put you on the team. But that is untrue. Go re-read Day 1, and you will find the only player who thought you were suspicious was Toad. Your 'spy' post is not the reason people found you scummy then or now. Notice also that 5 other players approved my team, so it's very unlikely that a bunch of people found you scummy.
Greymist Wrote: Radfield's posting and general attitude this game strikes me as different than the way he posts as town. because this is a different format than we are all used to this means almost nothing, but it made him warrant suspicion from me. what turns me off about him is the way he instantly shifted blame onto blazing, without even considering the posibility that palmar is scum. i feel a town radfield would be all over palmar to post more. Look at election mafia where they were both town. both of their activity levels were good and they were working together to find scum. here they are completely disjointed. next observe the way he dismisses zona's case as simply "bad" this also strikes me as slightly off. He also keeps saying "guys we need to work together and contribute" but he isnt really talking things over in the thread with most of us.
Again, not much. but w/e.
All the reasons you post here are false:
I specifically talked about the possibility of Palmar being scum, and even called out Blazinghand for doing what you accuse me of.
I encouraged Palmar to post more, and brought it up several times.
I have been actively trying to work together in the thread, both by encouraging others to post and by discussing issues with other players.
Those reads look a bit contrived, and it makes me more skeptical of Greymist.
I will back Palmars team, but I won't be voting on it in the Vthread just yet. I'm kinda putting all my eggs in the Palmar is town blazing is scum basket, but I'm ok with that at this point. VE is likely town, Truth is likely town. If there is scum on that team it is probably Palmar, but I doubt it.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On January 04 2012 18:55 Palmar wrote:
As proposed earlier:
Palmar
Radfield
VisceraEyes
Truthbringer
I can't yay-vote a team with Palmar AND Radfield on it. We will immediately lose. Although it's possible one of you is town, it's not possible that you're both town. Palmar, if you really want to pass a team to convince me, you'll have to do better than this-- swap out Radfield for Greymist and i'd be happier. I'd still vote Nay, but i'd be happier.
On January 04 2012 19:19 Palmar wrote:Show nested quote +On January 04 2012 09:56 Blazinghand wrote:
Something like that makes sense, but why are we discounting the possibility of a Radfield/Palmar/Zona team? Unless Zona's D1 "slip-up" was an honest mistake like mine... in which case Zona's "there were two spies N1" theory could apply to Rad/Palm. I have no words, that's such a far-fetched scenario, not only is Zona's initial case insane enough to be immediately discarded (not the notion that they both could be spies, but the reasoning behind it), but you're adding in that it's some kind of a crazy half-bus? There is no chance you're town.
I don't think you're the real Palmar. The real Palmar plays like this:
1) identify obvious scum moves
2) one by one, identify town players, until it's clear who scum is
3) play cautiously and don't make mistakes
There's two possibilities here-- you're either a mistaken Palmar or a scum Palmar. I think you're a scum Palmar, because town Palmar wouldn't say "there is no chance you're town". Town Palmar would just point out that Radfield is clearly town, and note that I have to be scum if both he and Radfield were Town.
Town Palmar posts more and is better, so I think you're Scum Palmar.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On January 04 2012 22:11 Radfield wrote:
I will back Palmars team, but I won't be voting on it in the Vthread just yet. I'm kinda putting all my eggs in the Palmar is town blazing is scum basket, but I'm ok with that at this point. VE is likely town, Truth is likely town. If there is scum on that team it is probably Palmar, but I doubt it.
Radfield if you really don't know which of us is town and which of us is scum, wouldn't it make more sense to not take a risk and back a team that doesn't include Palmar? I don't see why you'd be a fan of this team.
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EPT
