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On December 20 2011 21:45 syllogism wrote:
That's really stupid, how does that make him harder to read, especially if they tag their posts as instructed. Not like that is a good reason for lynching someone even if that was the case. GM do you think it's harder to read chezinu or the hydra? If the answer is chezinu, why are you voting to lynch the hydra
cause jack is a easy read. I'm brown. Red is more lynchable than brown.
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Why is all you have to offer policy lynches GMarshal? Are you playing to your meta of suggesting a Chezinu policy lynch every game?
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On December 20 2011 22:18 Palmar wrote:
Why is all you have to offer policy lynches GMarshal? Are you playing to your meta of suggesting a Chezinu policy lynch every game?
psh, he only suggests it when he is mafia
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Ah, I still see people are floundering bou not understanding my fantastic martyring this game. That's ok, I don't expect most people to catch on right away. Still, I must stop you before you hurt yourselves. These are a few methods I have realized while I was dreaming that may trigger "things". I'm not going to claim I know exactly what these things are, but I can do a damn good job of guessing.
Instigation: Because it's obvious that roles are probably the main issue here, many people, who are both scum and town, will attempt to provoke other players to fall into traps that give them options. This isn't anti-town for town to do, but since mafia is bound to figure it out when they look at each others roles, we need to make it known too. We also might have pro-town triggers, where someone does something good for town, and another player can act on it. That's why instigation as a whole is more of a neutral move. Still, be more careful with how you phrase things, and genuinely ask yourself if your post can be considered helpful or detrimental, rather then just scummy. We can determine whether certain forms of instigation are scummy by their nature.
A post I feel displays scummy instigation -
On December 20 2011 15:31 SamuelLJackson wrote:
Chezinu I wanna ask you something.
How would you feel about lynching the Traitor day 1?
Things to note: Speaking directly to an individual in a single post. Nearly forces some kind of a response. Also, implications of something else. I see no reference to what you are trying to do here. If you are pushing a cheznu lynch, then do it, and take the responsibility. Once you gain responsibility, I feel you gain the right to force other to make others do so as well. This could technically avoid triggers in the game if you word it improperly, or should I say properly? That leads me into the next method.
Avoidance: Purposefully with-holding aspects you would normally include in your posts to decrease chances of effects. Making as little interaction with the mechanic as you can. Again, it's neutral, a strong townie or strong blue can have just as much reason to stay alive as scum. Straying from your habits can be the best way to practice avoidance.
Avoidance post:
On December 20 2011 15:30 L wrote:
Alright, straight off the bat people are saying that we need good posts.
No shit.
Not only is the concept of the game surrounding the idea that poor play will be punished, but there's also the notion that we've got relatively few players. in the game. 5 to 15 or so. This means that best case scenario, we can win day 5 through lynches alone, but that's a rather long timeframe to close out a game. So poor play seems to be some form of game accelerant, and the 'poorer' the play, the less in our favor it seems to be.
So! What do we do? Post with content and condense your points. Keep your short posts to yourself and clump them up to make substantive comments. I'd say that posts between 6 and 15 lines are large enough to be substantive, but short enough to be read. But that shit is obvious. There's a bigger question here, however, which is what we're going to do with the first vote.
RNG is probably the worst possible idea; gives us next to zero information regarding how people argue and its practically an excuse for people to not post anything because there's no element of responsibility attached to it. Either way, we're going to want ideas down on the table asap. And not like dicks, either. Cut it out bum/prplhz.
Things to note: L's personality is often abrasive but he gets the job done. I feel he's put in effort into to make this post different from an opening post he would make in an open set-up. He does mention interesting tid-bits that I feel we should discuss, and if it must be through me rather then L, I will take that responsibility for him. Responsibility is an accelerant in the same way power roles are accelerant. It's just that regular townies have sway. I think L brings up a good point here and I would like if he expounds on it. He also makes a good point on RNG preventing sources of responsibility. I definitely agree, but to what point can we rely that all responsibility held will benefit town? I think further speculation on that is useless without information, so this made me think that responsibility is a method in and of itself a way to garner information. Thanks for making me realize this L.
I'd definitely disagree with palmar's claim that L's first post is "bad". I think a proper term is "hindered".
So that gives us method number three...
Responsi-Probe: Purposefully lining your posts with the intention to trigger effects. I have been doing this in every one of my posts, initially with the notion that there must be protective and investigative roles that have requirements, so I'm willing to make myself an option, while also drawing some unfriendly fire. I'm not claiming anything, just that there are a lot of vets to take inito account, so I would have no issue being the target of a mafia ability if it would have been another town player. With L's post, I also realized that putting myself out there and tripping wires, I might be able to gain whatever little information I can through whatever Ver reveals. Someone should take a hefty amount of responsibility so we can learn something. A noble cause in my book.
For the lynch, I'm going to vote the hydra. No, it isn't RNG, it's his use of instigation with-out much follow up. Chezinu's style is not unknown, and I have no reason to think he's claiming anything. You are shoving words in his mouth, and I don't completely know the reasoning. You are attempting to open him up to take responsibility and your explanations are not sufficient. Let chezinu decide how much responsibility he will take.
##Vote: SamuelLJackson
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I missed L's post 
+ Show Spoiler +On December 20 2011 18:59 L wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2011 18:35 Palmar wrote:On December 20 2011 18:33 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:
PALM-AIR.
It's day 1, what else would you like him to currently say? There's plenty of things that can be prodded already in the thread. Like what, exactly? Also, please don't post one liners. They inflate the thread size and make it tedious to read through content later. RE: RNG RNG doesn't force people to make a move one way or another and provides less information regarding people's inclinations than having someone pick a metric for a day 1 play to be made. The "shoot the inactive" metric was the standard when games were substantially larger, people talked less, and the metric itself was generally not held onto, just used as a prod to get people talking. As far as I'm concerned, RNG just cedes the first day's information content unless someone with a particularly interesting role gets selected. Please tell me how a random target provides more information than one who we can pick? It seems like by definition that RNG eliminates at least one layer of information: the choice. And there's no real benefit to the tradeoff in terms of preventing someone from hiding their kill attempt: If someone wants to get someone in particular put under the gun, they can fake a RNG call to make them the presumed target. If there's anything pro-town about the RNG plan its that it removes any fear to assigning a presumption of lynch to start discussion off. I don't see why there isn't a better metric to use than 'none' for that purpose. And even then, it doesn't seem like the attempt actually fostered the discussion you're saying it would, but maybe that's because the current RNG specified target hasn't been around in the thread. Either way, it seems like an empty placeholder topic. The previous placeholder topic, inactivity, served a practical purpose. I fail to see what reliable benefit comes from this one. So, the obvious question becomes which metric SHOULD we use. This is the question that RNG ends up proposing because it runs on the assumption that a) A lynch is better than no-lynch (I agree, in general) and b) that discussion surrounding the RNG could lead to a better target. I agree with a), but think that b) implies that we focus ourselves on determining a characteristic which outperforms RNG. This is why I think the plan is stupid; because IT ISN'T ONE. I'm super exhausted, but I'll think up some criteria for a day 1 lynch tomorrow. RE: The hydra I have no idea what/who this is, but I think I happened across it twice reading the thread. Is this someone's nickname? I haven't kept up with the last few (months of) games, so hook a brother up. RE: Me Sleep time. Peace! RE: Post formatting This is a very handy format and will make it easier to zip through pages to find discussions on a certain topic. Feel free to use it. Not sure how well it'll work when quoted, though.
If no one answered, a hydra is the spot played by two individuals. Hence, Samuel.
Obviously read my post for more reasons against RNG. I was hoping you would expound on the responsibility portion you mentioned, but I think this answered VisceraEyes first question very well. Still, mentioning RNG on the hydra (SamuelLJackson) was more of a joke. How do people not pick up on that -_- I don't think it needs to be discussed further, it's done the job of provokng discussion.
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Ver - Could you replace Meapak's filter with L's in the first page filter list?
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I want to lynch you Bumatlarge.
How do you feel about that?
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I don't care what one person thinks out loud with no explanation, that's how I feel  INSTIGATOR
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##Vote: SamuelLJackson
I will take 50% responsibility.
A pleasure to team with you.
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Just note: mafia knows how the blue roles are triggered. So I'm guessing half will trigger them on purpose to act normal and the other half play avoidance.
This game should get very interesting... muahahaha
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Bum I've read your post several times and I still don't understand what you are trying to say. It's very likely that if there are "triggers" in the game, they aren't arbitrary but as the theme suggests punish only bad play. Of course mafia roles might follow different rules, but lynching someone based on your guesses is awful. Asking questions is normal town play and is a null tell unless we later gain information that provides an alternative motivation for them. There is no need to play any differently than you normally do and in fact you shouldn't as that will only make it more difficult to potentially establish your innocence.
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On December 20 2011 23:30 Chezinu wrote:
Just note: mafia knows how the blue roles are triggered. So I'm guessing half will trigger them on purpose to act normal and the other half play avoidance.
This game should get very interesting... muahahaha
How do you get that ^ out of this? v
On December 20 2011 05:58 Ver wrote:
-Mafia will be given a list or some or all of the blue roles in the game but not told how many of each exist in the game.
Explain please. Do you possess information the rest of us don't have access too?
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I'm not lynching based on my guesses, I'm lynching based on why someone would post what the hydra did as town, and it didn't fit the bill. This isn't any different then I how usually post when I'm active if you get right down to it. I'm just taking small detours with my posts.
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You're literally taking the least scummy post to come out of Curu and Sandroba and voting them based on that. How is asking people questions in any way something only scum would do.
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GMarshal that's such stupid reasoning. If anything having two people post on the account just gives you twice as many chances to slipup and twice the scum tendencies. It's much more beneficial for Town since we can bounce ideas off each other and feed each other - as Mafia you already have that channel of communication with the rest of your teammates.
bum if I have to point out to you where Chezinu tried to claim Traitor then you're worse at reading than I can reasonably comprehend.
Think about how the reaction to Chezinu's claim so far has been - "oh that's just Chezinu being Chezinu." So if he's the Traitor then great, Mafia has found him already and Town will completely ignore him. sandroba tells me he's "too much fun" and we should keep him around unless he keeps trolling but consider that the OP states Traitor gets added to Mafia's numbers when they are found; if the KP formula is #/2 that means adding the Traitor day 1 gives you an extra KP. It's a play that makes complete sense for him as the actual Traitor and none as Town.
/Curu
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kitaman27
United States9245 Posts
The traitor will obviously be trying to alert the mafia to his presence so if we cut down the flavor, its a lot less likely they will be able to slip in a post about the Eggs Benedict they were eating during the Hey Arnold! marathon. Plus it means GMarshal can't hide his fraudulent arguments in a wall of nonsense 
Also, ##Vote Liquid`Sheth
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@bum I'm also baffled that you say "forcing a response" out of someone is scummy. Are you being dense on purpose?
/Curu
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On December 20 2011 23:57 kitaman27 wrote:The traitor will obviously be trying to alert the mafia to his presence so if we cut down the flavor, its a lot less likely they will be able to slip in a post about the Eggs Benedict they were eating during the Hey Arnold! marathon. Plus it means GMarshal can't hide his fraudulent arguments in a wall of nonsense Also, ##Vote Liquid`Sheth
Or the Mafia are alerting the traitor to them. Could go either way.
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On December 20 2011 23:57 SamuelLJackson wrote:
@bum I'm also baffled that you say "forcing a response" out of someone is scummy. Are you being dense on purpose?
/Curu
Well, this game is all about people's ability to respond....response ability.. I'm totally dead for saying responsibility so many times.
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Yes, and bum's point is that me trying to force a response out of you makes me scummy. There's one quote about me and saying I am scummy for "nearly forcing a response out of Chezinu" and then a whole bunch of crap about L with the conclusion of voting for me.
The purpose of Ver's game is for people to take responsibility and play to their best, not an excuse for you to post like a retard. All it takes is a few people to start the herp train (see: Personality Mafia Kurumi) and completely destroy Town atmosphere.
/Curu
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EPT
