EPTElection Mafia
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Singapore6122 Posts
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Anyhow, my analysis of his post indicates that it is a post both townie Radfield AND mafia Radfield would make. I would like to warn people not to jump to conclusions like that. They may be strong players, but that indicates nothing about their alignment. My take on the election issue would be to elect the strong players for day 1. Arc has a more than barebones campaign and also more posts than the rest of the vets who have stepped forward, so the rest need to step it up. | ||
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Similarly, I believe we should impose a policy restriction on mayor that Radfield omitted in his mayor election post. If two people are within 2 or even 1 vote count of each other, I think mayor should not interfere and make the 2nd place suspect the lynch instead. Letting the mayor have essentially 3 votes that he can abuse from day 1 seems like a bad idea. | ||
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Mayor is a more powerful role than Pardoner IMO. With Mayor, it counts as additional 2 scum members for LYLO purposes and it's a hidden timer. With Pardoner, one lynch gets postponed and pardoner outs himself if he makes a rubbish pardon. With endgame KP of 1-2, it is defintely not as powerful. In conclusion, the vet you feel as most townie/easier to read should be mayor. | ||
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The reason I came up with that is because I skimmed through Radfield's play in LOTR mafia. He twirled the town around his fingers as scum. He could have only wrought more destruction if he had more votes and the license to use it, which he granted himself in his reply. What is concerning to me is that I only knew of this because LOTR mafia was linked in this very thread. Yet my attempt to start discussion on mayor powers was virtually ignored, despite Radfield's history. Something is fishy here. As for lynch candidates, there is no one that sticks out to me. For example, while zeks has posted some questionable stuff, it may be honest mistakes. I cannot tell but maybe the vets can differentiate between honest mistakes and scumslips. A lesson here would be appreciated. | ||
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I am going to start first with the suspects towns are discussing and work down from there. Zeks: Has been the focus of town attention. Has kept up the activity and aquitted himself well in my eyes. Jitsu: Greymist made a case on him. I understand the point Grey was trying to make, that Jitsu seems wishywashy - but it is not good enough. Dropbear: Has made one scummy post. That wasn't enough for Arc to vote him, but he is also a lurker. Needs to defend himself ProfBadass: Made a post for election and disappeared. Well he is a vet, so I would give him more leeway. For now. Cwave: Another one that posts only for election and never seen again type MrZentor: On December 13 2011 12:00 MrZentor wrote: Because apparently one post isn't enough, here's my second one. :p Anyways, I think we should lynch zeks. He wants to kill the hydra, because it will be "dangerous for the town", but having the hydra only helps town. He is either extremely stupid or he is mafia. Either way, it's best to kill him. I already stated my view on who should be elected and voted for said person. Bad logic on the hydra. On December 13 2011 12:18 MrZentor wrote: We should lynch some lurkers to keep them active, but I don't think that will get us any mafia, because the mafia will end up shifting the vote to a non mafia lurker. I am just saying that given the current information, it would be best to lynch him. This could easily change with any new information or posts. A good 3rd post. I don't agree with deus that it clears him though. 1) There is a marked improvement in quality. 2) This is as he is parroting Radfield's opinion. Would like to hear more from him. nyczbrandon: Large post count of one liners. Most of it asks for stuff easily found in the topic. What stood out to me was this: On December 13 2011 10:55 prplhz wrote: I'm just gonna vote whoever you vote. Who are you voting? To avoid giving them excuse of "I don't know what to talk about", topic starters have been given. For example, evantrees at least has made a bit of effort at replying. nyczbrandon has dodged his topic starter and posted something irrelevant. Maybe you would like to state your opinions on who appears townie or mafia nyczbrandon? | ||
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While I noted down evantree and nyczbrandon being lurkerish earler in the day, we should definteily be trying for scum instead of lurkers day 1. Nothing about them convinces me that one lurker is more scummier than another. As such, I held off on placing my vote. I had believed/hoped I would be able to wake up in time to make a vote closer to the deadline. Unfortunately, Timezones are not very friendly to me. Well, it turns out I failed. I didn't have enough enough time to read the thread and make a definite conclusion. Hence, I forgot about the time and made a late vote just after the voting deadline closes. In the future, I will place a vote on someone to avoid a repeat of this situation. Some people were questioing about my late vote on spaackle. I was on the fence about spaackle. I had seen Radfield and ProfBadass push against him. I know he made a "slip". However, nothing else stood out as scummy enough. Sure, people pointed out holes in his analysis. Still, I felt his posts on the election was good. None of this RNG bullshit. After Arc withdrew/removed from the election, we should be trying to get a vet in. People were muddling the waters and arguing otherwise.It's almost like the previous day posts on why the mayor/pardoner roles are important was completely forgotten. They are useful for the night protection vs mafia. Speculating that mafia removed for whatever reason, that's WIFOM. Maybe mafia wanted suspicion to fall on all the other vets. Maybe mafia was hoping to get one of their own in office. Maybe mafia was just trying to cause chaos. Who knows? The only thing we can tell is mafia did not want Arc to be in office if the assumption mafia did it was correct. Now spaackle has turned up innocent, and a blue too. If I was to redo my lynch, would I lynch spaackle again? The answer is yes. Though I was uncertain, he was the best option at that time, better than MrZentor. For the information of those who were not there near voting deadline, the two leading votegetters were MrZentor and spaackle. MrZentor had "softclaimed" blue so to speak. That left us spaackle. We had to vote and lynch for information. Certainly, we took an "easy lynch" so to speak, but the risk was worth it if we managed to catch a scum. Though we failed, it is expected as day 1 mafia lynches are rare apparently. | ||
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Look, I know we made a mistake. Still, this post says nothing except "I was so sure spaackle was townie and I was right" If another townie made this, what would you think of it? When you call people out town, you are automatically correct? Firstly, BOTH ProfBadass and Radfield agreed he was a good lynch. And while you said spaackle was town, it was a sentence throwaway that was easily missed and not justified. Radfield gave his reasoning so we switched away from MrZentor. Secondly, spaackle continued posting after you went to bed. He could and did post stuff that affected people's reads on him. I'm disappointed. This post would feel scummy coming from a vet if it wasn't for the fact I feel you are basically confirmed right now. On December 14 2011 18:28 Arctocod wrote: Not to mention it's fucking retarded from a setup point of view to have a real-time ability that can just be used after we're both gone to bed. We weren't even around to tell people who should be voted into office instead of us. We're lynching ProfessorBadass tomorrow. Who do you and Deus think should have been in office then? ProfessorBadass was the only vet that was online. I don't think the people who voted in ProfBadass were at fault. | ||
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On December 14 2011 12:31 Radfield wrote: Yep, that seems to be my style these days  Day 1 is not my strong suit, but I can guarantee I will do better Day 2 I have plenty of time over the next few days.If I was scum, I would doublestack Arctocod tonight. I highly recommend all medics cover them, it leaves mafia free to snipe other players, but I think that is an OK trade-off. There is a chance that Arctocod removed themselves in order to buy town credit. I find this highly unlikely: 1. If Arctocod was scum, they would have removed me from office, as I am far more likely to find them out than any other player. 2. That would be a substantial waste of a very important role. We don't know what elections will be in the future, and some may be very beneficial for mafia to get. Using it now to buy a little town cred is a waste. 3. Mafia wants the elected roles filled with mafia. If they used the ability on themselves it simply allows a chance for a different townie to get elected. Originally I was 90% sure Arc was confirmed town. This post got me thinking a bit harder. Radfield's reasoning has a few holes imo. Pt 1: If they removed Radfield from office, what does it do but put place Radfield in the same position Arc is, a virtually confirmed townie? This would be the worst move scum Arc can do. Pt 2: Buying a little town cred? The evidence in the thread shouts otherwise. Arc is being treated as a virtually confirmed townie. No one is questioning. In fact, Radfield is the only one who even raised some late suspicions. People are trusting and sending Arc stuff like Jistu/Giygas. Arc has picked up on this and started acting with the authority of a confirmed townie with posts like this: On December 14 2011 22:30 Arctocod wrote: now on, you just do whatever we tell you to do. On December 14 2011 21:41 Arctocod wrote: prplhz, even in the very unlikely chance he's scum, he's at least devoted himself this game to protect me and syllo and agree with us a ton, so in the tiny, tiny chance he's scum, he cannot do any damage because he's forced to agree with us. Isn't the mayor/pardoner role supposed to protect vets from being killed instead of whoever agrees with you? Just because prplhz has agreed with Arc so far, doesn't mean prplhz will and must do so in the future on all issues. There is a call for all medics to be put on Arc. So now all our medics are being tied up. That's a huge concrete benefit. And the issue is it is THE perfectly logical outcome when I think about it. If Arc is truly town, we cannot risk Mafia doublestacking on him. There isn't any other options for our medics. Pt 3: The elected roles today are valuable for being unkillable. Mafia doesn't need to fear being night killed as much. In any case, Arc will enjoy the safety net of medics. While he loses an office today, he will be elected for the best offices in the future. Is there any doubt Arc is going to get his pick of offices tomorrow, that could actually prove more useful? Furthermore, as can be seen from thread itself, it confirms them and simultaneously places suspicion on the townie that is elected. In fact, town conversation can be directed towards said townie and away from other matters. Arc has let slip that he doesn't think too highly of the townies present, so a powerplay like this suddenly seems more plausible. That's all I have the energy for now, I will be back later. P.S Formatting is shit work zzz. | ||
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For today, I think the credentials of Gig and Arc are much stronger than anyone else. In order to have something to discuss, we should discuss their backup candidates. I think this should be a rule that must be observed. There might be another townie with the same power, or mafia may have more than one shot. You cannot assume mafia will be restricted to the same oneshot restriction as townies. The obvious candidate would be a vet like deus, but meh. | ||
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joke? joke question. | ||
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On December 16 2011 08:44 GreYMisT wrote: Ok here are my top three at the moment 1, nyczbrandon: Filter link: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=291720&user=138684 Notice in his posts how nothing constructive happens, almost everything is asking a question. He is very passive follows the majority for most of the day. He is also very careful to not take a stance on anything really, and only backs up other people, or makes side comments. at the moment I am much less sure on the ones below, have to keep reading. 2.Evantress http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=291720&user=78429 Does a better job of trying to appear town than nycz, but most of his posts are empty, consider the following 2: Both of these really have no need to get posted, the second one in particular is just a list of the people who voted for who, something we all can get accsess to. Also he showed a lack of caring who got into office/the lynch day 1. executing a RNG on both initally, and after being told not to still showed some minor apathy for it. When I am reading Evantress's posts, im seeing a whole lot of nothing, disguised as something. 3. Cascades http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=291720&user=53202 this post in particular turns me on: he said that this is a post both town and scum radfield can make...yes those are the 2 aleingments in the game. The goal of this post while reading it from a mafia perspective seem to be to seed distrust against rad, while preparing for the Arc withdrawl later. Oh, so you know for a fact there are only 2 alignments in the game? No third parties? I wonder how you came by that information. Two people can play this game. No seriously, how would you have wanted me to phrase that? Seed distrust? I'm saying it is a null read. In so far that I am warning people not to trust Radfield 100%... Yes, I suppose you can twist it to me seeding distrust. Indeed we should trust Radfield he is 100% townie after all. You KNOW. Sorry for being skeptical and trying to be helpful informing town. I think far more mafia-ish would be to not make the post in fear that "This post would look scummy" to scumhunters. Far more mafia-ish would be the fact that people let the impression that "Radfield is a townie from this post" stand uncorrected. You want mafia perspective? I give you mafia perspective. So is my mafia perspective right or your mafia perspective right. Good grief. This post srikes me as fishy as well, He says if he could repeat last night he would lynch spaakles again. wtf? the only purpose this serves to say is to try to defend your actions by appealing to the sense that you are a towine out crusading against what is wrong and illogical in the world. I see no town motive for this post as well. Those are my scum reads atm radfield, and i would like to see more posts out of them as they have been rather absenst this cycle. Good scumhunting by cherrypicking parts of my post. Read my entire post. Am I defending my actions and the lynch? Certainly, that's the POINT. That paragraph you picked out serves to reinforce my previous argument. People were asking for explanations. People were pointing fingers for the lynch. They bought up the list of people and threw accusations from there. Hell, my name was not even on there as I was late. Why did I bother? Because I believe this line of questioning is not useful by itself. Because I want to show that I believe the lynch was the right one at the time, and by extension, there is no need to criticize people on the bandwagon. I am communicating that the purpose of lynching is to find scum, and spaackles was our best, but flawed lead. Town must not be afraid of making "mistakes". Even if we fail to lynch right, we still obtain information. All of this talk on mafia motives make me weary. Don't think I didn't know that people can and are being given town reads because of said argument: "why would a mafia post something dumb like this, hence this post doesn't seem like it could have been by a mafia". I could have more easily gotten townie status by making some garbage posts, but I would rather win people over by the logic of my arguments. Anyhow, I suppose I could have constructed the argument better. I appreciate your effort, but please go read my posts in the context I made them next time. Your scum reads? Hey now, these are the people Arc said to analyze. This is what I have telling you guys all along. Vets say something and people just parrot them. The possibility that there is mafia among them is high. Don't just accept whatever they say. Don't blindly trust them. Question them. Spaackles may still be alive if Arc had explained why he feels townie instead of just a simple "He's town" that no one paid much attention to. Here's my thoughts on the vets. I feel focusing on the vets is crucial and more productive. If a vet says something that is illogical, he's most likely scum. If a townie says something that is illogical, you can't really tell if he is scum or he just doesn't know better. Anyhow, the vets have been just questioning people hoping to find a slip/"slip" and refusing to give out their own thoughts in detail. I will be very suspicious if any of them do not come up with cases at all. Radfield: Has been active and has good content in posts, being helpful. Based on posts alone, I think he is most likely of all the vets to be townie. Arc: Very good activity. Has to elaborate and give reasoning for most posts though. "Cos I say so" doesn't cut it. Deus: He used to post simple one-liners. That doesn't help us much. He has put in more effort in his posts since then though. ProfBad: Bursts of activity. While he was here, he was active in helping find scum. Needs to be more involved though so that we can get something done. Dropbear/bumatlarge: Bad activity. Only came out to respond when accused. That would be really suspicious if it wasn't for the fact he got replaced, so there's somewhat a reason for that activity. Neverthless, I will be watching his replacement closely. | ||
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You can see right now why I was against a Profbadasslynch: Every other discussion stopped and Palmogism stops every other discussion about alternative lynchcandidates because they won't share their reads. They may be good at diverting between town and scum, but they obviously don't see the game as a whole. I am afraid we'll lose this if Curu flips town. ] Risk and Grey my dear friends. You vote Prof. Badass right now please. [/quote] Is this a trap? Why the contradiction? Nevertheless I will bite. Yes we will absolutely lose the game if ProfBad turns up town. I explained above.This sheeping has got to stop. We MUST see the case. I will just leave this here so that I don't have to reply to the "mafia just want to get ProfBad as pardoner" line of thought. It is long so no one bothered to read it, but I don't want to hear the simplistic reasoning ever again before you refute my points. On December 15 2011 04:04 cascades wrote: Originally I was 90% sure Arc was confirmed town. This post got me thinking a bit harder. Radfield's reasoning has a few holes imo. Pt 1: If they removed Radfield from office, what does it do but put place Radfield in the same position Arc is, a virtually confirmed townie? This would be the worst move scum Arc can do. Pt 2: Buying a little town cred? The evidence in the thread shouts otherwise. Arc is being treated as a virtually confirmed townie. No one is questioning. In fact, Radfield is the only one who even raised some late suspicions. People are trusting and sending Arc stuff like Jistu/Giygas. Arc has picked up on this and started acting with the authority of a confirmed townie with posts like this: Isn't the mayor/pardoner role supposed to protect vets from being killed instead of whoever agrees with you? Just because prplhz has agreed with Arc so far, doesn't mean prplhz will and must do so in the future on all issues. There is a call for all medics to be put on Arc. So now all our medics are being tied up. That's a huge concrete benefit. And the issue is it is THE perfectly logical outcome when I think about it. If Arc is truly town, we cannot risk Mafia doublestacking on him. There isn't any other options for our medics. Pt 3: The elected roles today are valuable for being unkillable. Mafia doesn't need to fear being night killed as much. In any case, Arc will enjoy the safety net of medics. While he loses an office today, he will be elected for the best offices in the future. Is there any doubt Arc is going to get his pick of offices tomorrow, that could actually prove more useful? Furthermore, as can be seen from thread itself, it confirms them and simultaneously places suspicion on the townie that is elected. In fact, town conversation can be directed towards said townie and away from other matters. Arc has let slip that he doesn't think too highly of the townies present, so a powerplay like this suddenly seems more plausible. That's all I have the energy for now, I will be back later. P.S Formatting is shit work zzz. I will wait for ProfBad to defend himself before making final judgement. | ||
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And now we have yet another policy lynch based on the fact that this Erandorr vet is a joke that ragequits games when he gets mafia. And in fact he does this so often its a meta that every vet knows. Surreal. Why isn't he permabanned yet? I want a Erandorr ban if ProfBad turns out to be scum. What a joke. Banning Erandorr if ProfBad = scum? | ||
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As for ProfBad, I was waiting to see Arc's case which-may-or-may-not-come, and I was especially interested in seeing ProfBad's defence before making my conclusion about these two. We all knew what ProfBad did - he gave up and revealed himself as scum. Elsewhere, VE took out dropbear/bumatlarge. Rereading through their filters, both of them were pretty inactive. Dropbear especially only posted under pressure. Kind of disappointing how these vets treat mafia. It also makes me finally understand why there was a random one kill used against Arc. That was extremely dumb of mafia. Either you stack hits against Arc or not hit him at all. Counting on all medics to ignore our commands to all protect Arc doesn't make sense. I would be willing to bet some of the following "bad logic" townies are scum. They have been getting a free pass from the vets for being new, a stance I agree with. In light of the poor mafia logic, I heavily suspect nyczbrandon, zentor, evantrees, sheth, risk.nuke in that order. I agree that evantrees looks really bad Greymist, but I disagree with your logic once again. While your post does make sense, it seems to me bumatlarge could have targeted evantrees because he was an easy non mafia target. | ||
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On December 19 2011 02:53 GreYMisT wrote: Alright so I'm still on my phone, but I'm going to make this as legible as possible. I wanted professor badass in office because of te same reason I wanted arcticod and radfield. At that time I had no reason to think he was scum, and he was the next on the list of people most likely to be shot that night. I do agree that there is at least one scum on the vote list for professor badass though, as it would be pretty hilarious if he got in to office with 0 scum support. I explained my reasoning earlier about the suggestion for MrZentor as secretary of defense. Remember at that time I thought it was a public rolecheck. I suggested Zentor because: A. He already claimed his role in thread, allowing us to check if he was Lyning or not. B. putting someone in who had already claimed would protect other blues from exposure C. I did not believe any powers were associated with this role. All right I am going to save Radfield some time here and answer. I believe you just honed in onto the two weakest points of Radfield. For the first reasoning, I don't believe it is a crucial point of Radfield's case. It's just suspicious, and rightfully so. Radfield confirm/deny? Same for the second reasoning, which was an afterthought of Radfield's. Radfield might be a bit hasty on pinning it as scummy play. I think most of us were laughing off the suggestion of a unlynchable only for day 1 claim, but if you truly believe it could be possible, a role check would be the only good way to confirm Zentor claim. As it stands, your defence needs more work. I would expect a better one when you are on your computer. As for Deus, although I can't speak for the rest of the town, rest assured I have an eye on him. I will wait for him to post his town list WITH REASONING though. | ||
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Activity should pickup when filters are restored. You really miss it when it's gone. | ||
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This is not important in light of his roleclaim though. If you are Medic ROLECLAIM NOW. Mafia cannot afford to trade 1 for 1 and lose a KP. This game is an easy town victory at this point. All town needs to do is to play safe. Barring any other counterclaims, vote Greymist for PC instead. PC is immune to night actions and cannot be roleblocked. Hence we get the use of Greymist medic powers. With this, we even have the option to WIFOM mafia, but again, we don't need to. It doesn't matter that Greymist is PC instead. He watches Radfield. He doesn't do it he gets lynched next day. | ||
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You are going to have to do better than that I am afraid. I don't even know what is behind town's high regard for you. Definitely artificial. All you have done so far is to jump on bandwagons, such as trying to claim credit for Greymist's lynch. You were 95% sure then. Good night. | ||
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@Others trying to suggest I was trying to build up town cred by not voting for Greymist. These people trying to paint me as scum can do so either way - If I voted for Greymist I was happy to see some non scum die. If I did not vote for Greymist its because I know better and I was trying to build towncred. You can see how much towncred I obtained. I had the stance I was going to see Greymist's defence before committing my vote and I stuck to it. I gave Greymist another chance because his first defence was a short one from his phone and not a full one. @TNTP When I post a case, I am pretty darn sure about it. Right now, I don't have a strong scum read on any of the survivors atm. I was pretty sure that the mafia play this game reflects the fact that the surviving mafia are lurkers. And of today, evantrees seem to be another confirmed townie and nycz was modkilled. While it is entirely possible that the mafia lies in the rest I have pinpointed out, I need to re-evaluate in light of this new information. As for Deus, I was just pointing out the incongruity between town's treatment of him and me. That would be the explanation above. Shouldn't you expect a vet to contribute more? That was why I was pressuring him throughout for more detailed posts that don't consist of him asking everyone's opinions and saying nothing himself. Would you not agree that sort of play leans on the scum side? Of course pressure by myself with such an unpopular stance makes me seem misguided and not achieve anything. I thank some members of town for finally catching on and asking questions of Deus too. With their help, Deus finally made more substantive posts and took a stance. @Deus, of all people you should understand the logic of watching Radfield and you know what would happen if Radfield dies. Note to self: I probably should develop the habit of making small one liners in each place that don't say anything instead of one gigantic post. Noone reads that, and small one liners have the effect of upping my post count into more pages. -_- | ||
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Today's election is fairly easy, should be Radfield and a confirmed townie like Zeks. | ||
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@Cwave The same for your list. So all of mafia didn't spread out their vote and all voted for Radfield day one. On day 2 and day 3 mafia somehow must continue their strategy is to spread out their vote to avoid being suspicious despite it not being a problem on Day 1. Also on Day 3 lynch final tally I was voting for same target as Sheth too. Does that clear me in your eyes? In addition, Day Two lynched final tally we had ProfBad's guilt virtually confirmed. Almost the entire town voted for ProfBad. (excluding ProfBad who cannot vote himself, nycz who wasn't playing the game and got modkilled) High chance of all the scum voting ProfBad. Really? When the entire town did so? Useful observation. In fact, I would say the ones at fault would be Cwave and TNTP who didn't vote ProfBad. @All I realise Deus opinion has coloured your thoughts town, but stop cherrypicking facts to force me to fit into your image of scum. @Zeks I don't see why Dropbear would be chosen over ProfBad either, so it was most likely random. @jaj22, risk.nuke and rest. Good catch that we have all of mafia powers accounted for and a 100% confirmed townie could be a better election prospect than a mere 90% confirmed townie. | ||
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Watcher stated in thread works both day and night. Watcher will be able to detect roleblocks committed anytime during that timeframe. That's the purpose of a watcher. If he cannot watch actions that were submitted before/after him it would be stupid making people camp the action and waste their time. This watcher cannot be roleblocked himself. Therefore, 1) Radfield was not roleblocked last night 2) Deus is lying. (unlikely) Was Radfield roleblocked all along? 1)Even though he was not roleblocked last night, he did not have additional votes show up. (unless Deus lied) 2)However, we know that mafia has a roleblocker. (Sheth) Noone else claimed they were roleblocked. What town should do: Anyone who was roleblocked last night speak up. Remember Sheth was still alive to use his roleblock ability. | ||
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On December 23 2011 02:02 DEUS-ex-MAFIA wrote: i dont understand your last paragraph... who do you want to lynch and who do you want to elect? and dont answer with a question. i want rad and zeks #1,2 and you lynched, not only you just posted again without content!!! Lynch - YOU. Criticizing me while acting the same way(as a vet too!) speaks of double, contradicting standards. Election - zeks, mrzentor, radfield. Both zeks and mrzentor are confirmed, while I feel that Radfield has been posting town this game. | ||
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Here's his filter http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=291720&user=237734&user=237734 Well, look at him and his worthless filler posts: On December 16 2011 18:48 DEUS-ex-MAFIA wrote: palmar, curu is not lynchable today. He could pardon himself. On December 14 2011 04:35 DEUS-ex-MAFIA wrote: wow my meeting is so boring!!! Here's a trap with a smiley face to indicate unserious post, and he bites to increase his postcount because I disparage him in a following sentence in the same post, "The obvious candidate would be a vet like deus, but meh." Well, look at him trying to softdefend ProfBad. Not a strong reason sorely by itself, but worth considering. On December 16 2011 19:00 DEUS-ex-MAFIA wrote: + I think we should give him another chance. Not only because he could destroy our whole day if he just pardons whoever we vote for - but also because I think he's a good player and when he's here, he's making sense. On December 16 2011 19:18 DEUS-ex-MAFIA wrote: i don't need a longer one... I have different reasons why I refuse to lynch curu today. From what I've learned in xlvii I think it's bad to lynch players at the start who have the potential to be good. If you remember, I pushed for a lynch between you and BC pretty hard and in the end we had that lynch between you. However you were both town. If we had given both of you more time, and would just have lynched obvious scum like zeks prplhz greymist or erandorr back then, we would have won this easily. I think we have the same proplem here. I don't think that there is absolutely no veteranplayer in the scumteam. And among the veteranplayers curu is right now definetely the scummiest. But if we start right now with lynchung each other rather than looking for the more obvious candidates we will all be dead day3 and the game will end in chaos. Well, look at him trying to claim credit. Jumping on the ProfBad bandwagon, and then the Greymist one. The Greymist especially came out of nowhere. On December 19 2011 07:21 DEUS-ex-MAFIA wrote: says the scumcascades :-D I am watching you, too and I've seen enough. You're scum aswell as this badboy: I had you on my list first :--D G_G His only mention of Greymist -> Greymist is 95% scum! Last time I checked, asking a player their reads on other players does not imply you think they are scum. Look at him trying to wriggle away from responsbility for his thoughts. Greymist was 95% scum! Oh wait Greymist is actually 95% townie oops. Nycz turns out to be town instead of scum! Oops why did you guys vote for nycz he's only on my scumlist, but third place. Obviously if you voted for someone else on my scumlist things would be different. There's a reason why you put nycz as a scumread instead on under the null list. Man up. The town doesn't have to listen to you 100%. Look at the Greymist lynch for example. Unless you are scum and know better. Look at him martyring (rings a bell?): On December 21 2011 23:51 DEUS-ex-MAFIA wrote: Read the spoiler if you nuked me and not cascades: + Show Spoiler + GOOD GOD, YOU SCREWED UP SO HARD, MY HEAD EXPLODES! YOU ARE THE WORST MAFIAPLAYER IN THE HISTORY OF THAT GAME Even if the vig (Zeks) doesn’t believe I was mafia and didn't nuke me, there was no reason then to believe vig would target Deus instead, unless he was subconsciously afraid and guilty. (Deus got the trust of town and got the election the way he wanted). And finally, the jewel in the case: What is a major scumtell. When your actions don't matchup with your words On December 23 2011 02:02 DEUS-ex-MAFIA wrote: i dont understand your last paragraph... who do you want to lynch and who do you want to elect? and dont answer with a question. i want rad and zeks #1,2 and you lynched, not only you just posted again without content!!! Where is your content? The only "content" I can remotely see is your reads list. A random number generator can post the reads list you did since they were not backed with actual content. On December 23 2011 03:01 DEUS-ex-MAFIA wrote: phew cascades... attacking my credibility for no reason except defending yourself isnt exactly protown. Firstly, I was repeatedly on Deus for posting his cases and his reads instead of asking questions and saying nothing himself. Isn't the first time I was ragging on Deus, isn’t something that came out of the blue. Where has Deus attacked my credibility for a reason, any reason at all? (except for perhaps the sake of needing to attack someone?) I invite you to read through this filter again: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=291720&user=237734 Nope. When you say one thing and act another, that's scum. | ||
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Singapore6122 Posts
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Yeah I see the kind of scumhunting that is encouraged. Just point fingers at people. Has these accusations stuck? Nope. What has stuck? A good case on Greymist. So instead we are all grasping at straws and at each other's throat for anything and everything perceived to be scummy. You agreed with Sheth? SCUM. You disagreed with Sheth? SCUM BUS. Wtf reasoning is going on here, I don't understand. This is what happens when things are isolated and taken out of context. For example, my case on Deus could have been split into many many different posts, in "true townie fashion". Do they mean anything by themselves? Hardly indicative. Has Cwave posted anything on me? Nope he's just the same as Deus. Let's follow the easy lynch to get town off my back. And why? Because of lazy setup reasoning. Well 20% of players are mafia, so 1/5 vets = mafia! We already caught the allocated number of scum vets which is Curu. Does this setup make sense in such a vet oriented game? So basically that poor mafia vet screws up/ goes inactive, and the rest of mafia can just GG? They stand almost no chance of getting someone in an elected position (unless they happen to have way to demonstrate they are town?) Oh wait, we already saw all of the mafia powers with today's secret ballot that no one is claiming, none of them are viable for faking a confirmed townie. Those that are "semi-viable" have town counterparts that they can just easily counterclaim. Anyhow, all I ask is that you guys look over my case if I get lynched. Pls look at Deus's filter and draw your own conclusions. I know it is 6 pages, and I admit to being lazy and not examining Sheth's huge filter in detail, but Deus is mostly one liners. Good night. | ||
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cascades
Singapore6122 Posts
On December 24 2011 18:13 DEUS-ex-MAFIA wrote: I want to explain you guys something: The scumteam wants to attack my credibility, because I am one of the people who can't really confirm themselves. If cascades is a townie, why didn't they help me to lynch him already? So this is the explanation Deus can offer? This is so vague and so bad, I don't even know where to start. So let's assume scum wanted to attack credibility of posters who can't confirm themselves as Deus is saying. Except I posted my case on Deus before he claimed VT. According to this logic, I can't be scum, which contradicts what he has been implying. Not to explain this doesn't address my points at all. On December 24 2011 18:13 DEUS-ex-MAFIA wrote: I want to explain you guys something: The scumteam wants to attack my credibility, because I am one of the people who can't really confirm themselves. If cascades is a townie, why didn't they help me to lynch him already? Bolded to indicate who the "they" can refer to. You just answered your own question. I was attacking you, why would scumteam help to lynch me eh? Even if Deus was posting from a mafia perspective, sorry Deus, it takes more than the two of you to lynch someone. There are people calling for my lynch just because a self-declared "I can't be confirmed" guy said so, so it definitely isn't for lack of trying. | ||
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Singapore6122 Posts
Thanks to risk.nuke for being a bigger man and resisting Deus's trolling. Well Deus. Lead by example instead of empty words if you want to prove yourself to be likely town. | ||
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That's okay, my only case remains on Deus. While of course I would prefer the lynch order to be the other way round, if it requires you guys to lynch me first to get him lynched, so be it. I'm as scum as he is town. Don't let him escape. THERE CAN ONLY BE ONE. | ||
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Singapore6122 Posts
On December 27 2011 06:19 DEUS-ex-MAFIA wrote: okay, just finished the obligatory phonecall with my gf: Cascadees: "OT: @Sheth, No my nick comes from cascades as in waterfall. I did look up the juggling term you mentioned. I can do basic 3 ball cascades though, so hey, I got a new origin story next time someone asks." mhm... How is this a tell? hmph.. "Dropbear: Has made one scummy post. That wasn't enough for Arc to vote him, but he is also a lurker. Needs to defend himself ProfBadass: Made a post for election and disappeared. Well he is a vet, so I would give him more leeway. For now." commentating on the scumvets. But he commentates the behaviour of 5 already confirmed (due death) townies in the same post. At this point of time several people called out both scumvets already, so it's nothing new etc. Yes my fault that they looked scummy and they were valid lynch targets later on. "Some people were questioing about my late vote on spaackle. I was on the fence about spaackle. I had seen Radfield and ProfBadass push against him. I know he made a "slip". However, nothing else stood out as scummy enough. Sure, people pointed out holes in his analysis. Still, I felt his posts on the election was good. None of this RNG bullshit." defending his vote. "Now spaackle has turned up innocent, and a blue too. If I was to redo my lynch, would I lynch spaackle again? The answer is yes." - I think I already posted this line of casc earlier. This strong defense of his mislynchvote isn't necessary at this point. Noone accused especially him for the mislynch. People were complaining about late town votes for the mislynch. I can't speak for all of town, so I will speak for myself. "Who do you and Deus think should have been in office then? ProfessorBadass was the only vet that was online. I don't think the people who voted in ProfBadass were at fault." Answer the question without hindsight I also already posted this one. I still don't understand his joke. He didn't explain it to me. Like Cwave was complaining about roles all going to vets and the rest of newbies not getting some. Context man context. "Radfield: Has been active and has good content in posts, being helpful. Based on posts alone, I think he is most likely of all the vets to be townie. Arc: Very good activity. Has to elaborate and give reasoning for most posts though. "Cos I say so" doesn't cut it. Deus: He used to post simple one-liners. That doesn't help us much. He has put in more effort in his posts since then though. ProfBad: Bursts of activity. While he was here, he was active in helping find scum. Needs to be more involved though so that we can get something done. Dropbear/bumatlarge: Bad activity. Only came out to respond when accused. That would be really suspicious if it wasn't for the fact he got replaced, so there's somewhat a reason for that activity. Neverthless, I will be watching his replacement closely." His thoughts on the vets.: First of all, I think it's astounding how he purposeful picks out the players that are actually considered to be vets, although noone of these vets made a list of the vets in the thread. Somewhere he picked up these informations about the players and I strongly doubt that he read back into our last games and tries to see who played how many games. Did he really look whether me, supersoft, is a vet? I think someone made up that list in their scumQT. These are only the players who ran for campaign and got commented on by others. Do your research. "I will wait for ProfBad to defend himself before making final judgement." yeah sure. Wait for the defense and see how the general atmosphere develops... Wait for the defence and see how guilty ProfBad was. Too hard a concept for Mr 95%-scum After this post and Curus failed defense, he starts yelling at curu and being really upset that curu is such a disappointing scumplayer lol. Townmotivation to rage at a failurescum? Noneexistant. I raged at Eriandor. Good misrepresentation. Sorry if raging at selfish pricks is disallowed. After Greymist claimed medic: "As a matter of principle, I don't like Greymist's defence. He said that he is not remaining tight lipped, but I don't see him contributing anything new for town - he's just repeating his previous scumtells. Evantrees and I have already posted a refutation, so I suggest you guys go look at that instead of trying to jump on an invalid bandwagon." - I think he didnt realize the impact of this claim. With no counterclaim greymist was confirmed town. Read the rest of that post. I think you didnt realise how not to cherrypick facts. "At last Deus actually gives his own opinion instead of fishing for others! Applause for his first real "contribution". You are going to have to do better than that I am afraid. I don't even know what is behind town's high regard for you. Definitely artificial. All you have done so far is to jump on bandwagons, such as trying to claim credit for Greymist's lynch. You were 95% sure then. Good night." attacks me when I call him out the first time. He avoids the direct discussion by leaving. Of course I was 95% sure then 95% not 100%! He played strange, the medicclaim saved his ass and explained parts of his defensive behaviour. (Hey Greymist. Now that your medicpowers are gone, you have no reason to hide your opinion anymore... just saying) You attack me after I call you out. Lol attack on my timezone! What discussion? Your CASCADES IS SCUM posts? Have to respond with AM NOT. I wont commentate on the rest. All he does is accusing me for little reason. He experiences support by risk.nuke. I don't know how to file their alliance against me. General thoughts: He basically never explained anything and he never defended himself. He seems to just not care about the townvictory. Scum sacrifices a player from time to time. Town never sacrifices a player. It's just stupid. I defended myself when Greymist targeted me. Great job on reading what you want to read. I can't defend myself against your LOL SCUM accusations. Now you have a half decent case I am responding. It is good for town to trade 1 for 1. You are scum. Good trade! I don't want to die to make someone look scummier I accused earlier. Since I cannot know his alignment for sure, my death won't help the others at all. Townies are wrong all the time and that's no reaon to kill them. Therefor it's not in towns best interest to accuse the one who accuses you, just because he does. These emotional OMGUS doesn't convince the others and is just bad play. I didn't accuse you because you accused me, I accused you cos your filter looked like shit. Attempting to discredit me this way is disingenuous. Real copycat. As for Deus being town..... ..... ... ...... .... For example, him trying to wifom watcher doesn't do shit. He had to watch Radfield, no wifom can be allowed there. Else he can watch mafia sacrifice someone under heavy suspicion for Radfield and not catch them cos he wasn't watching. (PUN INTENDED) . Furthermore, Radfield as medic can wifom already and much better and he's trying to claim credit for that. Frustatingly, no one else has brought this point up. | ||
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Singapore6122 Posts
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Curu used him as an excuse for his lack of activity. I don't know how large a factor that is, but more importantly, Eriandor is going to ruin future games. | ||
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@Supersoft, well there were too many confirmed townies and the two vets. Had to get rid of them somehow. Theory on jaj can't be TOO feasible. Refallen looked like a new town poster for the most part. Building a case on him doesn't seem any more rewarding than one on some lurker like nycz. @Palmar, you are right on difficulty of judging.Treat me as being #1 town poster, as I was making a conscious effort to refrain from garbage logic. For example, I am blind to my day 1 posting scumminess. I generally don't bother much with day 1. Too little to tell if someone was being dumb or being scum. Especially this game there was tons of garbage logic from new town. I mostly ignored them. Am I supposed to attack them? Some quotes from you: Both Syllo and I suck at finding scum, we're really good at finding townies though, so we're using the process of elimination to find them. So apparently I didn't say anything townie enough eh? OT: Erandorr wouldn't join a game and then not post... unless he rolled scum. Straight from the horse's mouth about Erandorr. I believe Deus also mentioned it somewhere and Curu was talking about it in scum QT. Which is why I am so upset about him. Joining many games and not posting when scum.... What kind of player is that? | ||
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