This is my first mafia game on a forum (I've played a lot IRL), so I may be a little bit of a newbie at first.
Election Mafia
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Spaackle
United States153 Posts
This is my first mafia game on a forum (I've played a lot IRL), so I may be a little bit of a newbie at first. | ||
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I am a newbie, so I won't be running for anything yet until I see how the whole election thing ends up working. I really do think, though, that everyone should at least get out there and post a big wall o' text so that we can all get reads on each other and begin the scumhunt. If you're going to run, say so and give the reasons why. If you're not going to, then at least post something so that we can see where you stand. Having a scum in office, especially the pardoner office, would be devastating to the town. Now to read the other posts. I'll have another, more detailed post up shortly. | ||
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1. There's still lots of time before the election deadline. We should definitely wait to start the bandwagons rolling until after we've heard everyone's opinions on the matter. 2. Goes along with the last one, people are still sleeping or are just lurking. We need everyone to weigh in before we commit to anything. Guess that's it from me for tonight. I'll try to have some sort of response to the inevitable flood of posts that will come as I sleep. See you all in the morning. | ||
Spaackle
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1. The role of pardoner seems really prone to WIFOM. I agree on the no pardoning rule and that any pardon is reason for a lynch. The exception pointed out by risk.nuke does need some consideration. If there is a mass vote switch for some reason, and the pardoner feels like a pardon is necessary, they should have to justify it very well to everyone else. If they can't justify the pardon well enough to make us believe they are acting in the best interest of the town, their neck will definitely be in a noose before nightfall. risk.nuke's exception: + Show Spoiler + Exception 1. mass last minute vote switch. Questionable Exception 2. Everyone agrees on lynching someone, then occurs a last hour voteswitch when some keyplayers are unavailable. 2. Even though there is a battle of the titans for the mayoral slot currently going on, there are a few people who are using the election mayhem to slip under the radar (or so it seems). These people are just as likely to be scum as the rest of us, but without them posting, we have no idea. I'll try to pressure some of the lurkers, but even the big candidates need to pay attention to them as well. It'll be better for the twon if we can get everyone involved in the discussion as much as possible. 3. Kind of an idea from me. Because the voting is done in a separate thread, votes could easily be made without gaining the attention of the debaters in the main thread. If we had everyone post in the main thread why they are casting their vote and for whom before casting their vote it might help make the connection between the debate and the actual votes a little clearer. To start off I'll cast my vote: I'm voting for Radfield in the election right now because he is one of the more active players in the thread. I really don't have much else to base my vote on, but know that it will probably change several times before the day ends. I encourage everyone else to announce their vote on the main thread too. 4. I'd really like some of the less active candidates to post their views too. Right now the debate is centered on Radfield/Arctocod/ProfBA because they're actually posting and expressing their views. if you guys want to win some votes, you're going to have to be more active than them, because they've already got some momentum. More from me later today after some more discussion topics have arisen. | ||
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1. What do you think of the No Pardon, No Exception rule? 2. Give your specific impressions of the campaigns so far, especially the major ones. Remember, the more you get into the game you're playing, the more fun it is! :D | ||
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I'll start by saying that DropBear is looking a bit scummy to me. He makes a post telling us to vote for him, not lynch a hydra, endorses Radfield, and discourages discussion on the mayor and pardoner roles. He then promptly disappears off the face of the planet, reappearing only to dodge a bit of poking from arctocod. DropBear's filter + Show Spoiler + LOL Kavdragon the village idiot. I am running for mayor too I've played over 10 games with a reasonable win rate. I also have been sniped really early the last few times I've played due to nailing mafia early and want to last longer this time. I suck horribly at lying and am really obvious as a Mafia so you know what you are getting. I don't think voting for any of the hydras is a good idea, they are hydras because they don't have the time/effort to be involved individually. Vote for a single player people. I would endorse Radfield other than myself as he is easily the best player here and I feel is also not that hard to tell his alignment. These posts about what the mayor and pardoner do and why they are important are basically spam. We can read we know what the roles do. Focus on who we are electing and why rather than clutter the thread. Cos this tactic worked so well last time Palmar -_- DropBear's scumminess makes some sense here: Throw in your bid for mayor, just so that scum can have a bid, then, when you see that it isn't going well, vanish in the confusion of the arguments of the other candidates. DropBear, please give us some more information: prove to us that you are not scum, because right now, you look pretty scummy. I'm casing my lynch vote right now for DropBear To clarify: I'm not changing my mind in the same post: I still think that lynching all lurkers is a bad thing. I'm using my vote in this case to put some pressure on a very scummy looking lurker to try and draw him back into the discussion. If DropBear can prove to me that he's not scum, my vote will go somewhere else. | ||
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(In no particular order) Nisani201: + Show Spoiler + On December 13 2011 10:53 Nisani201 wrote: Alright, I just caught up on the thread. 1. No Pardon should not be carried out until the very late game, where there's probably some weird scenario in which pardoning would be important. However I don't think we need to discuss that now because there are too many possibilities. 2. Radfield seems to be playing pro-town. Palmar is not taking his usual controversial stance that he normally seems to assume. This is not scummy (I even think he said somewhere that he was going to try out a new style) but at this point I trust Radfield a lot more. ##Vote: Radfield (for election) Nisani posts after lurking for quite some time and answers the questions I gave the lurkers. He gives some short answers and then doens't post anything for two hours. On December 13 2011 12:37 Nisani201 wrote: Zeks is a null-read for me. Yeah the scumslips are pretty stupid but in my experiences I've found that these easy D1 lynches don't go too well. If there are no other candidates besides him then I will definitely vote him. Otherwise I will wait for more. Nisani says that he doesn't have a read on zeks yet, but decides to wait until more info comes up. On December 13 2011 12:39 Nisani201 wrote: We could also lynch a lurker (such as TotallyNotTwoPeople). Again, I want more information. Suggests lynching a lurker, and gives TNTP as an example. Nothing really suspicious stands out here. On December 13 2011 14:11 Nisani201 wrote: I just read Greymist's analysis on Jistu and I think he is much more viable lynch then Zeks. Eiii, why are you voting MyZentor? You provided no reason other than a quote. Somewhat off topic: after playing in XLVII, this is much more relaxing... so much better not having 100 players or whatever it was that game. Decides that Jitsu is better than Zeks based on GreYMisT' analysis, then questions Eiii about his vote. Read: Lurking Town Nisani hasn't been posting much since the beginning, but what he has been posting has been fairly non-contradictory and he's done a bit of motive questioning. He just seems like a regular townie withour much to say. Jitsu: + Show Spoiler + On December 12 2011 13:41 Jitsu wrote: I'll just state my policy views now, since I want to get alot of opinions on this. Not only to see generate discussion, but also to get some feedback on how the potential mayor's stand on hot-topic issues. LALiars - I am stuck on this. As stated before, if a Blue has to lie to prevent their potential unveiling, this could be a beneficial thing to town, but, by that time, I think town would be able to use voting in their own way to keep the blue safe. For instance, if a needed blue is revealed, we can simply vote them to Mayor and keep them safe via Bodyguard. We can take advantage of the two protected, voted positions. Am I understanding this wrong? LALurkers - Lurking is also anti-town. In the games I have played (limited experience) mafia who lurk, and are forced to the surface because of a Lurker Policy, can slip up very, very easily. Forcing discussion is never a bad thing. The more that is discussed, the more that can be analyzed by the townie populace, and the better decisions can be made. As prplhz said before, I will not be looking into previous games to gain inflection on how useful someone is. I want to know how the mayor will work for us now, not how the Mayor worked in previous games and how they hope to work now. I still would like to see who the potential mayor candidates stand on policy ideas, as well as some analysis from already fleshed out posts/future posts. On December 12 2011 15:40 Jitsu wrote: I agree with this. Radfield tied himself quickly to another player. I have no scumread on him right now (nothing he has done really screams "mafia" to me) but I think we should hold on voting and bandwagoning this early, regardless. How would it look if Arcotocod flipped mafia after Radfield tied himself too him? Again, not claiming I have scum-vision. Just making a point that "itchy-trigger-finger" voting might be a bad thing. On December 13 2011 00:52 Jitsu wrote: + Show Spoiler + On December 12 2011 22:58 Radfield wrote: I think LAL is pretty terrible. It does two things wrong: One, it gives mafia a legitamate topic to discuss early game, when in fact we want them discussing elections and lynches. Two, it gives mafia a reason to push townies who may lie, even when the circumstances are not particularly damning to the townie. Every lie needs to be treated on a case by case basis. Townies lie ALL THE TIME, whether LAL exists or not, so it does not make sense to implement the policy. Not to mention, voting based on policy after Day 1(or even day 1) is terrible for town. We vote on content, not policy. Hydras are only as good as the time they have to invest in the game. I agree that a Palmar/Syllo hydra is a potent force, but I don't think that a hydra by definition is better than a single player. If I was hydra'd onto an inexperienced player, I fail to see how that would be stronger than me by myself. Note on the Pardoner: Every game the pardoner exists people talk about how scary the pardoner is if in mafia hands, but this is NOT TRUE. This is where policy is actually helpful. The pardoner MAY NOT use their pardon, ever, end of story. Even if you are a townie pardoner, and think whomever is getting pardoned is town, you STILL do not use a pardon. The reason for this is that if town reaches a majority, pardoning that player throws town into chaos, regardless of the alignment of the player pardoned. Palmar has stated several times that he will not vote for a player just to get a lynch(in majority lynch scenarios) if he thinks they are town, and this is a good gameplan. But that does NOT transfer over to pardoning players who you think is town(not that palmar thinks this). It is never worth it to break town atmosphere and toss it into chaos in order to save one townie. The Pardoner NEVER uses the pardons. Period. If a pardoner ever uses a pardon, we lynch him the next day(or vig him that night if we are able to). For this reason the pardoner is not dangerous until lylo(or close to it). Only once we get to lylo does the pardoner become dangerous. This is why it is essential that if we have a pardoner of questionable alignment, we get rid of them before the endgame. However before that, on day 1/2 and probably 3, they are not worth worrying about. Lynching lurkers is a somewhat viable strat for Day 1, particularly in a game with many players who are unknowns. However I am strongly against it in this situation. With a mafia KP of 5/2 rounded up, it is hugely beneficial for us to pick off a mafia day 1, and I have never seen a lurker flip mafia on day 1. So I think we should hone our lynch onto active players, even at risk of killing an active townie. The risk vs reward is really high in this setup. This quote doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me, but maybe I am reading it wrong. The purpose of putting active experienced players into the elected roles is to keep them safe. That's it. There is no reason to keep someone safe who is either highly inexperienced, or only moderately active. Arctocod flipping mafia would say nothing about my alignment in strict terms. One, I tied them to myself on policy, before even seeing them post. Two, the likelyhood of us both being scum is quite low. If anything Arctocod flipping scum makes it more likely for me to be town. Furthermore, if we are both mafia, there is very little incentive to tie ourselves together. Honestly though, at this point the only thing that ties us together is that we are both vets. Correct. I could have easily made my first post as either town or mafia. Basing a read off of the first post in the game is most definitely jumping to conclusions. Arcto, Drpobear I dont know, Gigas so far so good. A little too early for me to be making reads though. Going to address the things Radfield responded to with my post(s): I don't understand your reasoning on this. Seeing as how you are a veteran, I will bow to your decision however and drop the issue. Please don't think i'm accusing you of anything. In my mind, if we were to discover that Player B was mafia, and Player A associated with Player B, than Player A would have a higher likelihood of being mafia. Again, maybe that is my inexperience, but that is how my head would process it. On December 13 2011 01:09 Jitsu wrote: Sure. Hopefully we can clear this up quickly. In my opinion, lying does nothing to benefit the town, save rare circumstances in which a blue town role needs to keep their identity hidden. If we can bring issues to the fore-front with honesty and integrity, we would be able to root scum out quicker than if everyone was throwing off-hand lies. I can understand you're feeling on the case-by-case basis; I think it's pretty self-evident that most things in mafia need to be treated on a case-by-case basis; In this way, Policy is a bad word to use since it shows an unwavering thought process regardless of potential outcomes. Seeing as how we are almost down a day already, and I agree with your statement about giving the mafia a way to tie up valuable time spent discussing this topic, I thought it better to drop the whole thing and defer to you're rational as a vet, and let sleeping dogs lie, as it were. The whole point of bringing policy questions up in the first place was to try to get discussion to try to start some analysis. Maybe it's not a stereotypical move by players on the first night - we can chalk that up to my inexperience if you want, I think it was just my personal way of getting discussion started. Does that clear things up a bit, Radfield? On December 13 2011 04:16 Jitsu wrote: I don't beleive I would classify as a lurker, but I will chime in with these posts regardless. 1. I think the No Pardon train of thought is good. However, as I stated before, this blanket "No Exception" thing scares me. Case-By-Case basis, I believe, would be better. If there is a blanket statement that says "if X happens, Y must always be the result," and a situation blindsides us where we will need to use the Pardon power, than I think it could be useful to use. That being said, if you are elected to the role of Pardoner, and you use it freely even once without sufficient cause, expect a vote from me for a lynching. 2. I am going to tie this in with my vote. I feel that Radfield would be the best person to be saved from a mafia kill. I feel that he fleshed out his ideas and I get a town vibe from him, even after we had our banter back and forth, and I give him my support, at least for now. His willingness to defend his position, take the posts and respond to them, while also asking questions himself, has solidified my vote for him. Extra Note: I read a page or two back about posting votes in your thread, especially when it gets down to voting for lynching. I thought this would be a good idea, as well as officially voting in the Vote Thread. I think it might add some weight behind the post if it's all together. I can't speak for everyone, [and I know this is simply filler post] but I just wanted to say that I will probably follow this trend. On December 13 2011 06:19 Jitsu wrote: Something doesn't sit right with me here. Come post, like, 5 minutes after Sheth calls him out for being a lurker, than covers and says he's going out. And I didn't even understand the meat of his post. On December 13 2011 08:02 Jitsu wrote: I simply didn't think it wise to start throwing votes around right as the game started. If you think that's mafia agenda, I apologize. I was originally wary of Radfield, but after our talks later, I felt that he was acting generally in a pro-town manner. Also, if I didn't want Arctocod and Radfield to go into office together, why would I already have voted for Radfield as my election vote? Like I said, I was skeptical at the beginning of Radfield's motives, but I have since warmed up to him. Did you read the whole thing GreYMisT? It was a pretty precarious situation. I deferred to Radfield's judgement because we were spinning tires on something that wasn't extremely productive, IE: deciding what a good lynch policy was. Later on, when Radfield asks me to explain my thought process, I did. Not quite following your backtrack upon backtrack upon backtrack. I do know what I believe, which is my ideas on Lynching Liars (which we are again talking about, somehow) but since it was a moot point at that time, I decided to drop it since it was unimportant. I felt that whole situation was wrapped up fairly by the end. As for accusing people, I'd like to get some fleshed out thoughts before posting half-witted accusations against someone, and up until a few pages ago, we were still discussing the possibilities of who the election candidates were. On December 13 2011 19:59 Jitsu wrote: Ahhh, just woke up. After seeing the events of the night, I thought i'd give my feeling on who might be someone to pay attention to. I felt worried Comprissent a few of his posts ago, and he recently really got it sparked in my mind that he might be scum. This was a valid point. You said we shouldn't have had two people in office at once. Cool. In the next post, you even defend your stance that we shouldn't have those two experienced players in office, by saying have someone questionable in office as Pardoner. Than you 100% switch your stance to wanting both Arc and Radfield in office. Hmmmm, ok...I could see it, but you're calling *me* wishy-washy? Fine, fine.. You stated if Zeks was scum, he would have voted right away who he wanted to vote for in office. It makes him seem town because he wants to try to feel out the candidates. I think that was exactly the same play I made early, trying to get a feeling for the mayoral candidates. According to that line, I should be pro-town. but than you go ahead and say that the Anti-Jitsu analysis was backed by logic - logic that is counter-acting your own logic. Also, by my count, the following people (up to Comprissent's) to tentatively vote for me are GreyMist, Radfield, Nisani, and Comprissent, in that order. You also say that the lynching scenario is either Lynch a lurker, and guarantee losing a town (I don't see how you can guarantee to lose a town) or lynch an active player, with a chance of either way. How about we look at some post analysis instead of just picking out of a hat? Comprissent is pretty wavy in my eye. Like to see some thoughts from others. Read:Town I really don't have much so say specifically about many of these posts. Jitsu discusses things with other players, generally stays pretty active and backs up his reasoning with logic and sources. he looks pretty town to me right now. Turns out this took a lot longer than I thought. I have to go, but I'll finish this up later today. | ||
Spaackle
United States153 Posts
1: For the large analysis that I'm working on, I went through the thread and picked out every person that had been suspected. I started on the analysis, doing the players in the order I had the tabs in my web browser open, but ran out of time to finish. While I agree that Nisani may have not been the best analysis pick, there has been a lot of people pointing to Jitsu as scum. I feel that going through all the candidates who have been under suspicion and then posting my analysis will benefit both me and the rest of the town by showing what my reasoning is on all these candidates. I will try to clean up the ones I still have to do, though. 2: Why am I a pick for lynching? | ||
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Also, to pick who I analyzed, I skimmed the thread and pulled up the filter of anyone who had been suspected of being scum. My method for doing it may not have been the best, but I'm trying to fix that for the rest of my analysis. | ||
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xsksc: + Show Spoiler + xsksc starts off kind of slowly, posting a few things, joining in with everyone else on the Arctocod/Radfield election platform, and lurking a bit. On December 13 2011 21:19 xsksc wrote: Sure. I'm here, I just don't know what to discuss right now. My election vote's already decided. I don't really have any reads right now as it's so early. What would you guys like me to talk about? Radfield calls out xsksc on lurking a bit, to which he replies that he doesn't have much to talk about, but is open to talk. Nothing suspicous, just early game. On December 13 2011 21:32 xsksc wrote: If I had to lynch someone right now on a hunch I would lynch Prof Badass. If I had to pardon one of the above, I'd probably pardon Dropbear. His filter looks the most pro-town at the moment, more so than the others at least. Obviously this is just vibes and feelings at the moment, I don't have anything solid to go on yet. xksxc responds to some questions, but doesn't really go too in depth on them. Could be a scumtell, or could just be laziness. On December 14 2011 04:12 xsksc wrote: I'm not sure about him. I like his agressive style, I've played with him before in a couple of games and his town play usually looks like this. However, some of his posts don't make sense to me. It's up to the hydras on how they decide the their vote, I think he's being a bit unfair on Totallynottwopeople. Responds with much more detail to this, analyzing risk.nuke a bit more critically. Read:Null, bit lurkery xksxc needs to post a bit more. I'm not getting a scumread from him, but he's not giving me much of a townread either. He's been making a bit more of an effort to post lately, so he may read a bit more town for me in the future. MrZentor: Filter: Link here Zentor starts off by lurking, then responding to my question to the lurkers. He posts again, some time later, by going straight for a lynch on zeks, with his only reasoning being that zeks wants to lynch a hydra. On December 13 2011 12:00 MrZentor wrote: Anyways, I think we should lynch zeks. He wants to kill the hydra, because it will be "dangerous for the town", but having the hydra only helps town. He is either extremely stupid or he is mafia. Either way, it's best to kill him. Pretty shaky reasoning if you ask me. Zentor keeps at his idea of lynching zeks, putting a mention of it in almost every post he makes. He answers a couple of questions in an awfully formatted post (please try to format things better in the future). He then tell everyone that it would be a bad idea to vote for him. He then says that Sheth isn't scum, but makes a comlpete about-face in his next post after seeing a criticism of the analysis he based his townread for Sheth on. He continues to go for zeks, until there's a bit more debate about Sheth. Zentor drops his case for zeks and goes against Sheth, also without very good reasons. He proceeds to move his vote to risk.nuke when risk.nuke doesn't respond, then posts quite a bit of fluff. Read:Got some scum on him Zentor seems to like to latch on to another player and push for their lynch heavily, without backing his choice up with solid logic. He seems to be trying to sow confusion among the town, and is doing a fairly good job of it. His rapid opinion changing and faulty logic make him seem pretty scummy to me. We're running out of time, so I'll stop analyzing and cast my vote. MrZentor has been doing a pretty good job of being scum so far so my vote goes to him for now. It may look like bandwagoning, but I've stated my reasoning. | ||
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Read:null | ||
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On December 14 2011 10:16 MrZentor wrote: I like that idea, but I think some people (risk.nuke) shouldn't be in it. Maybe each person can choose to take another out at the cost of not going in themselves? Why would we exclude anyone from the RNG? Especially risk.nuke? Also, why should we even use an RNG? | ||
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@evantrees Why are you using a RNG? Also, what is your thoroughly thought out vote for? | ||
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On December 14 2011 11:01 ProfessorBadass wrote: Ah right, I see you're on Radfield already. Nevermind that point then. Well if your vote was originally on Arctocod, who would you be shifting to now? I'd probably cast my vote to you, ProfBA. Might still, if the election looks close, but for now, it stays with Radfield. | ||
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I am also curious, MrZentor. Why can't you be lynched? | ||
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On December 14 2011 11:29 ProfessorBadass wrote: Spaackle aside from Zentor who's your next favourite lynch? @ProfBA Probably for Refallen or Nisani mostly because they've been lurking and what they have posted has looked a bit scummy. Maybe evantrees, for the same reasoning. | ||
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I originally though that nisani was just a town lurker. His posts didn't suggest much more than that. When I mentioned that he was near the top of my lynch-list later, though, he still hadn't posted anything. I merely said that he might be a good alternative because of his inactivi9ty. | ||
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Sorry about the scumreads right near the beginning. It is my first game, and I was kind of tired when I made those posts. I'm going to try to get in another game after school starts up again, and I'm going to do much better this time. gg guys | ||
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