EPTElection Mafia - Page 23
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Spaackle
United States153 Posts
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Eiii
United States2566 Posts
On December 13 2011 15:09 GiygaS wrote: 4) Eiii: #1 Not really strong, as it's been pretty well defended with good logic, but it's some circumstantial evidence nonetheless: + Show Spoiler + On December 12 2011 13:29 Eiii wrote: I'm going to be voting for one of the hydras, in all likelihood-- from my experience, multi-person players (especially with experienced, devoted mafia players behind them) can absolutely wreck games like this. Having a pro-town hydra behind a bodyguard should be town's goal for today, in my opinion. On December 13 2011 09:09 Eiii wrote: I'm going to be voting Radfield for mayor/pardoner. He would be good to have in either role, and now that he's posted some more I'm pretty confident that he's legit. If anyone hasn't looked at the election voting thread yet, it's literally all rad/arc, so it looks like our candidates are decided unless anyone has some major objections. Why not vote for the hydra (the kind of person you want in?) You even mention the perfect candidate in Arc :/ #2: Already making excuses: + Show Spoiler + On December 13 2011 09:09 Eiii wrote: I'm not going to lie, I generally don't really have any clue what's going on day 1, and this game is no exception. There is literally no reason for a town to say this. The only reason I can actually come up with this is: A) Adding fluff, which is Mafia logic B) Setting up an excuse if he get's caught on anything in Day 1 #3 He kind of hopped on my Zeks bandwagon :/ Overall this is only enough for an FoS, but I want to see how he responds: FoS on Eiii hey let's look at the words I'm saying! I said I want a hydra behind a bodyguard-- why, that's right where arc would be if he were to secure the pardoner spot :o And yeah, I said I have no clue what to do day one because I don't-- and to anyone really paying attention, it would kind of explain my behavior at the moment. As you might be able to tell from the shortlived vote on zeks or the current clearly completely committal (4x combo) vote for zentor, I was trying to do the same thing you're doing here-- that is, just put pressure on people who might, in their reaction, give me a better idea of what side they're on. It doesn't really work if you claim it as you're doing it, though :x And now look, you put my name in red and throw some fos at me. EVEN AFTER On December 13 2011 15:09 GiygaS wrote: 5) Jitsu: I really don't see any merit to what Greymist has been saying. They are just really weak arguments against someone IMO YOU jump on MY greymist's-analysis-isn't-meaningfully-siginifcant bandwagon!! I think that's three now, right? | ||
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GiygaS
Canada1043 Posts
Second, the Greymist "bandwagon" isn't even that. A bandwagon is when somebody votes for somebody or FoSes them or something and someone jumps on that bandwagon with little to no real reasoning behind their decision other than, "yeah he's got good points". I don't think anyone has actually truly considered greymist's points on Jitsu atm, based on him just saying what do you think of my points on Jitsu? over and over and over again. This is NOT a Bandwagon whatsoever, it's actually just saying I see no merit in the ideas, which a lot of other people have said before, but nonetheless he was a candidate. You were NOT the creator of this so-called bandwagon, I would argue it's the people who have been ignoring Greymist's post until prompted would be the people. | ||
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Spaackle
United States153 Posts
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TotallyNotTwoPeople
United States160 Posts
On December 13 2011 11:43 Radfield wrote: Hey HarbingerofDoom(TNTP), in steamship you came out absolutely swinging as a townie. Here you are absolutely dragging your feet. Anything to add to the discussion? Hi there. The reason for the less posting is because the friend who comprises the other half of the hydra is visiting from out of state, so we've been doing things around the city rather than being near a computer at all times. Sorry for the somewhat lacking activity. On a note related to lacking activity: + Show Spoiler + On December 12 2011 17:34 ProfessorBadass wrote: Why am I running for Mayor? I am infinitely smart, suave, charismatic, modest, able, active, amazing, modest, and honest. And Erandorr's not bad either. Anyone who has played with me will know I give my all in regards to activity and scumhunting every game that I am in. I will never avoid the game or lose interest. My biggest pet peeve ever is Townies who expect to be mindlessly carried or don't keep an active interest in the game. Am I a better player than syllogism/Palmar/Radfield? Probably not. But I would not say I am bad either; in nearly all games where I was Town I have rooted out at least one scum and played a part in Town victories. I believe I am more than capable of contributing to Town and I know that I am Town; I do not know that about them. In regards to Arctocod and Radfield, I would very strongly prefer Arctocod simply based on meta. Palmar's scum play is relatively disinterested and obvious and syllogism's consists of never posting anything. Radfield is a different story though, he twirled the Town around his fingers in LOTR Mafia, securing multiple mislynches and leading the Town by the nose. He would have led Mafia into a crushing victory had a third party not taken him out of the game during the night. Having only two real candidates for mayor/pardoner makes me uneasy, but I even more dislike the half-assed mayoral campaign that promises activity and follows it up by being inactive. Can any player who has played with them (Curu/Erandorr) before give some insight as to how active they generally are as town versus scum? And to Curu/Erandorr, any particular reason for the lack of activity? And why did you run for mayor and then put no effort into it? As for our two mayoral candidates, nothing about either of them really stands out to me so far as significantly leaning them toward being town or being scum, so I will be voting for Arctocod for now as I have read more games of Palmar's/Syllogism's than I have of Radfield, which will presumably allow me to determine their alignment more easily as time goes on. Arctocod has also been somewhat more active, and activity is certainly vital for our mayor/pardoner to have. Granted, both of them are going to get a position anyway, and the bodyguards are the more valuable part, so I think this will be the last I have to say on this subject unless somebody has a specific question. | ||
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TotallyNotTwoPeople
United States160 Posts
On December 13 2011 15:28 Arctocod wrote: Cascades: I don't think it's great and will be judging such situations on a case by case basis, even if Rad gets mayor. If such a scenario occurs and he disagrees with my opinion on the better lynch, I will be quite suspicious, however. It's also possible that there are other anonymous voters in the game besides just the mayor. I found this statement interesting. What makes you think there would be other double voters, especially anonymous ones? | ||
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TotallyNotTwoPeople
United States160 Posts
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Eiii
United States2566 Posts
On December 13 2011 16:36 GiygaS wrote: So let's get this staight you have now used your inexperience as an excuse even though I said in the post you quoted that you had planted that in the first place AS an excuse to be used in the future, which you have now done... ok. Second, the Greymist "bandwagon" isn't even that. A bandwagon is when somebody votes for somebody or FoSes them or something and someone jumps on that bandwagon with little to no real reasoning behind their decision other than, "yeah he's got good points". I don't think anyone has actually truly considered greymist's points on Jitsu atm, based on him just saying what do you think of my points on Jitsu? over and over and over again. This is NOT a Bandwagon whatsoever, it's actually just saying I see no merit in the ideas, which a lot of other people have said before, but nonetheless he was a candidate. You were NOT the creator of this so-called bandwagon, I would argue it's the people who have been ignoring Greymist's post until prompted would be the people. You take this game much more seriously than I do. One part of my post was a joke! See if you can figure out which it was. Also I don't really understand how your first point quoted here relates to anything I've said or defended myself with! Inexperience? I've got plenty of experience, and it's all me fucking up day one trying too hard and looking too much into small things when there's nothing significant I'd be able to point out without looking like an idiot. So instead, I did the pressure-some-guy-who-looks-sort-of-sketchy thing. *Now* do you get it? | ||
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cascades
Singapore6122 Posts
I am going to start first with the suspects towns are discussing and work down from there. Zeks: Has been the focus of town attention. Has kept up the activity and aquitted himself well in my eyes. Jitsu: Greymist made a case on him. I understand the point Grey was trying to make, that Jitsu seems wishywashy - but it is not good enough. Dropbear: Has made one scummy post. That wasn't enough for Arc to vote him, but he is also a lurker. Needs to defend himself ProfBadass: Made a post for election and disappeared. Well he is a vet, so I would give him more leeway. For now. Cwave: Another one that posts only for election and never seen again type MrZentor: On December 13 2011 12:00 MrZentor wrote: Because apparently one post isn't enough, here's my second one. :p Anyways, I think we should lynch zeks. He wants to kill the hydra, because it will be "dangerous for the town", but having the hydra only helps town. He is either extremely stupid or he is mafia. Either way, it's best to kill him. I already stated my view on who should be elected and voted for said person. Bad logic on the hydra. On December 13 2011 12:18 MrZentor wrote: We should lynch some lurkers to keep them active, but I don't think that will get us any mafia, because the mafia will end up shifting the vote to a non mafia lurker. I am just saying that given the current information, it would be best to lynch him. This could easily change with any new information or posts. A good 3rd post. I don't agree with deus that it clears him though. 1) There is a marked improvement in quality. 2) This is as he is parroting Radfield's opinion. Would like to hear more from him. nyczbrandon: Large post count of one liners. Most of it asks for stuff easily found in the topic. What stood out to me was this: On December 13 2011 10:55 prplhz wrote: I'm just gonna vote whoever you vote. Who are you voting? To avoid giving them excuse of "I don't know what to talk about", topic starters have been given. For example, evantrees at least has made a bit of effort at replying. nyczbrandon has dodged his topic starter and posted something irrelevant. Maybe you would like to state your opinions on who appears townie or mafia nyczbrandon? | ||
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Cwave
Netherlands313 Posts
On December 13 2011 12:00 MrZentor wrote: Hola! After reading this, I decided to post again. Because apparently one post isn't enough, here's my second one. :p Anyways, I think we should lynch zeks. He wants to kill the hydra, because it will be "dangerous for the town", but having the hydra only helps town. He is either extremely stupid or he is mafia. Either way, it's best to kill him. I already stated my view on who should be elected and voted for said person. Ayyyyyyyyy, a classic poke by Radfield and you respond with those words. You are getting my vote for now unless someone slips up. As for my mayor running campagne.... i think it's snowed under the vets and i have no chance of winning. Shame cause i am a straighforward townsmen who has what it takes to scumhunt. I will vote for Radfield for mayor since he comes across as a good and active player who actually gets people to post stuff like what MrZentor posted above. | ||
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Arctocod
Norway251 Posts
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Arctocod
Norway251 Posts
I want you to explain a few things: On December 12 2011 15:09 DropBear wrote: I am running for mayor too Why are you running for Mayor? What's the motivation behind it? Do you think scum is more likely to be wanting to off you than say, Radfield? Me/syllo? Super/Annul? If you do, why haven't you pushed any more for being voted? Did you actually not want to be voted into office? You only have a single post following your announcement post, that's probably the most disinterested campaign I've ever heard. Did you maybe only run in the off case someone voted you? On December 12 2011 15:09 DropBear wrote: I don't think voting for any of the hydras is a good idea, they are hydras because they don't have the time/effort to be involved individually. Vote for a single player people. I find it kinda ironic you accuse us and the other hydras of not having time or be willing to put in the effort, and then you make that single election post and disappear off the face of the earth. Do you see any particular pro-town reason for immediately discrediting several strong players? On December 12 2011 15:37 DropBear wrote: Cos this tactic worked so well last time Palmar -_- That was acctually syllogism who wrote this, but nonetheless, why are you appealing to meta from another game to defend yourself? I mean, if you really are town, why wouldn't you just prove it through your actions this game? /Palmar | ||
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DropBear
Australia4389 Posts
On December 13 2011 13:39 Spaackle wrote: Lynching a lurker should be our ABSOLUTE last option. Rather than taking them out of the game, we should instead make as much of an effort to bring them into the discussions as we can. I'll start by saying that DropBear is looking a bit scummy to me. He makes a post telling us to vote for him, not lynch a hydra, endorses Radfield, and discourages discussion on the mayor and pardoner roles. He then promptly disappears off the face of the planet, reappearing only to dodge a bit of poking from arctocod. DropBear's filter + Show Spoiler + LOL Kavdragon the village idiot. I am running for mayor too I've played over 10 games with a reasonable win rate. I also have been sniped really early the last few times I've played due to nailing mafia early and want to last longer this time. I suck horribly at lying and am really obvious as a Mafia so you know what you are getting. I don't think voting for any of the hydras is a good idea, they are hydras because they don't have the time/effort to be involved individually. Vote for a single player people. I would endorse Radfield other than myself as he is easily the best player here and I feel is also not that hard to tell his alignment. These posts about what the mayor and pardoner do and why they are important are basically spam. We can read we know what the roles do. Focus on who we are electing and why rather than clutter the thread. Cos this tactic worked so well last time Palmar -_- DropBear's scumminess makes some sense here: Throw in your bid for mayor, just so that scum can have a bid, then, when you see that it isn't going well, vanish in the confusion of the arguments of the other candidates. DropBear, please give us some more information: prove to us that you are not scum, because right now, you look pretty scummy. I'm casing my lynch vote right now for DropBear To clarify: I'm not changing my mind in the same post: I still think that lynching all lurkers is a bad thing. I'm using my vote in this case to put some pressure on a very scummy looking lurker to try and draw him back into the discussion. If DropBear can prove to me that he's not scum, my vote will go somewhere else. Ok first of all I can't prove I'm not scum, noone can without being killed and flipping town. Please don't think like this it leads to mislynches. I ran for mayor because I want the protection and I am among the more experienced group in this game. At this point the candidates seem very set so there isn't much point I don't want Arctocod for several reasons, or Curu/Erandorr for that matter. Firstly I really don't like or trust hydras. Read the Protactinium thread if you want to see my feelings on them. With multiple people playing on one account it's much more difficult to differentiate their behaviour and get a read on them. As to low hydra activity, in games that I have played in with hydras, people have shared an account because they didn't have time to play a full game, see Protactinium in mafia 38 and JACCUZISPLAT in PYPI. I assumed that would be the case here. Why else would you ask to play as a hydra? As for the "dodge" from Arctocod, in Mafia XLIV Palmar launched an absurd aggressive attack on me after my first post. He managed to spam up the first 20 pages or so, aggressively attacked everyone who defended me and caused a general shitstorm. Surprise surprise I was a medic. I panicked and made several mistakes after that. That game severely pissed me off, he's doing it again and I'm not biting this time. I'm not discouraging discussion on who mayor and pardoner should be. I'm discouraging discussion on what the mayor and pardoner DO. Rehashing the day 1 post information on what abilities these roles have is pointless. Posts like this are what I mean. I'm not saying it's scummy, I'm saying it's filler. The last thing I want to address is my supposed inactivity. I'm in a different time zone to all of you. I'm unlikely to be posting heavily when most of you are because of this. Not only this but it's just over halfway through day 1, give me a chance! | ||
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Arctocod
Norway251 Posts
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DropBear
Australia4389 Posts
On December 13 2011 19:13 Arctocod wrote: @DropBear: I want you to explain a few things: Why are you running for Mayor? What's the motivation behind it? Do you think scum is more likely to be wanting to off you than say, Radfield? Me/syllo? Super/Annul? If you do, why haven't you pushed any more for being voted? Did you actually not want to be voted into office? You only have a single post following your announcement post, that's probably the most disinterested campaign I've ever heard. Did you maybe only run in the off case someone voted you? I find it kinda ironic you accuse us and the other hydras of not having time or be willing to put in the effort, and then you make that single election post and disappear off the face of the earth. Do you see any particular pro-town reason for immediately discrediting several strong players? That was acctually syllogism who wrote this, but nonetheless, why are you appealing to meta from another game to defend yourself? I mean, if you really are town, why wouldn't you just prove it through your actions this game? /Palmar Why would I run for mayor if I didn't want to get in? That would be pointless filler. I want the bodyguard protection. I feel I am a decent player and transparent. I was offed night 1 in PYPI, night 2 in XLIV. In LOTR I was smurfing, the instant I revealed my identity, about day 5ish, I was immediately shot. I haven't lasted long the last few games, so yes I would say I am a potential target. Regardless of your ability you tend to come up as a lynch candidate often, as does annul. If I was mafia no, I would not shoot either of you. Radfield is a different story. Curu is a dangerous town player but he's part of a hydra, I don't trust hydras I've just said that. Eiii has stated that he isn't running. Greymist doesn't appear to be running. I don't really know any of the other players. I consider myself the best choice along with Radfield. As I've just said, I'm in a different time zone. I'm back now. I thought it was you. The unexplained, single line accusation sounded familiar. | ||
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Arctocod
Norway251 Posts
On December 13 2011 19:27 DropBear wrote: I don't want Arctocod for several reasons, or Curu/Erandorr for that matter. Firstly I really don't like or trust hydras. Read the Protactinium thread if you want to see my feelings on them. With multiple people playing on one account it's much more difficult to differentiate their behaviour and get a read on them. As to low hydra activity, in games that I have played in with hydras, people have shared an account because they didn't have time to play a full game, see Protactinium in mafia 38 and JACCUZISPLAT in PYPI. I assumed that would be the case here. Why else would you ask to play as a hydra? Protactinium was an unannounced hydra. This is bullshit and you know it. Actually your example of Jaccuzisplat is excellent because it directly disproves your point. Kitaman27 played a decent game there, but redFF derp'd hard enough for both of them to be figured out as scum. Thus your point about it being harder to figure out hydras is at best wrong, and at worst fear tactics. On December 13 2011 19:27 DropBear wrote: As for the "dodge" from Arctocod, in Mafia XLIV Palmar launched an absurd aggressive attack on me after my first post. He managed to spam up the first 20 pages or so, aggressively attacked everyone who defended me and caused a general shitstorm. Surprise surprise I was a medic. I panicked and made several mistakes after that. That game severely pissed me off, he's doing it again and I'm not biting this time. That thing was done for a reason. If you don't remember I completely discarded the case on you in favor of a case on BrownBear, it was an experiment to try and catch mafia from reactions to mad tunneling, you were simply an unfortunate victim of that. The scumhunting part worked beautifully, but yes, it destroyed town atmosphere because people are pussies. That doesn't change the fact you're appealing to another game to try and disprove an attack upon you. Why is that? On December 13 2011 19:27 DropBear wrote: The last thing I want to address is my supposed inactivity. I'm in a different time zone to all of you. I'm unlikely to be posting heavily when most of you are because of this. Not only this but it's just over halfway through day 1, give me a chance! Does Australia not have a 24hour day like the rest of the world? For someone runnning for mayor it's very strange to have only posted twice, with one of them being a one-liner. Especially seeing as unlike for example the europeans, it's now 10 pm in Australia, which should mean that you've had two evenings worth of posting by now, unlike the europeans who've only had one evening so far (it's 11 am here). I didn't ask you to post at a specific time, I asked you to post.... /Palmar | ||
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DropBear
Australia4389 Posts
On December 13 2011 19:36 Arctocod wrote: Who do you think is scum? Did time zones make your posts disappear because that's your second real post in the game, which doesn't appear to be "posting heavily". It's almost 10pm in Australia right now, so I guess you have just been really busy? Probably should have thought about your busy schedule when you decided to run for mayor I'm in Perth, its in Western Australia. It's 645pm here. I've been busy digging up lawns all day and I finished about 45 minutes ago. I haven't had a chance to put a case together yet because I've been responding to your and Spaackle's accusations. Give me a minute geez. | ||
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Arctocod
Norway251 Posts
On December 13 2011 19:45 DropBear wrote: I'm in Perth, its in Western Australia. It's 645pm here. I've been busy digging up lawns all day and I finished about 45 minutes ago. I haven't had a chance to put a case together yet because I've been responding to your and Spaackle's accusations. Give me a minute geez. Alright, your story is consistent, your absence is explained, and while you're dumb for distrusting us, it doesn't make you scum. I expect you to contribute heavily tonight, but for now you're off the lynching block. *Palmar hands DropBear a minute* There you go! Use it well. /Palmar | ||
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DropBear
Australia4389 Posts
JACCUZISPLAT was OriginalName and redFF not kita. Plus they were TOWN not mafia. Get your facts straight! No, you didn't completely discard the case, but continuing that argument is pointless and derails things here so I will stop. You/syllo were showing signs of doing the same thing. It seriously pissed me off last time and it's doing a good job again. | ||
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Jitsu
United States929 Posts
This being said, it now makes more sense in my head to NOT vote for two extremely active players who are running for office, rather leaving one out of an office. If they are both scum, and experienced, town is in trouble. Leaving a lesser experienced person in office may be helpful, where if both offices turn out to be scum, we have a better chance of catching one. This was a valid point. You said we shouldn't have had two people in office at once. Cool. In the next post, you even defend your stance that we shouldn't have those two experienced players in office, by saying have someone questionable in office as Pardoner. Ok, so assuming we stick to this play on No pardoning, no exceptions, the only advantage either of the offices gives is immunity on night 1 from getting hit. This just helps us keep the vets alive, am i right? Radfield seems the most organized and willing to work with town, even if I don't like his infrequent posting. I would also like Arc, as having two players is very nice to keep safe (as having double the chance for a slipup if he is scum) Than you 100% switch your stance to wanting both Arc and Radfield in office. Hmmmm, ok...I could see it, but you're calling *me* wishy-washy? Fine, fine.. If Zeks is scum he would have probably made up his mind right away who he wants in office. This makes him seem town as he is trying to feel out the candidates. Also, more have stepped up in this '12 hour' window you've talked about, so I can't blame anyone for changing their minds You stated if Zeks was scum, he would have voted right away who he wanted to vote for in office. It makes him seem town because he wants to try to feel out the candidates. I think that was exactly the same play I made early, trying to get a feeling for the mayoral candidates. According to that line, I should be pro-town. For the lynching scenario: 1. Lynch a lurker, guarantee losing a towny 2. Lynch someone active, either hit scum or lose an active towny. So far i think only greymist has the only analysis that is actually backed by logic Spackle, your analysis on Dropbear is 100% theory, and I would not like to lynch based off that MrZentor's reasoning behind going for Zeks explains nothing either, what does 'having the hydra only helps town' mean? This being said, I'd tentatively vote for Jistu. Worst case scenario, we lose a towny either way. But with the amount of active posters, i think it's worth the shot to try for hitting a red. but than you go ahead and say that the Anti-Jitsu analysis was backed by logic - logic that is counter-acting your own logic. Also, by my count, the following people (up to Comprissent's) to tentatively vote for me are GreyMist, Radfield, Nisani, and Comprissent, in that order. You also say that the lynching scenario is either Lynch a lurker, and guarantee losing a town (I don't see how you can guarantee to lose a town) or lynch an active player, with a chance of either way. How about we look at some post analysis instead of just picking out of a hat? Comprissent is pretty wavy in my eye. Like to see some thoughts from others. | ||
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