TL Mafia XLVIII

On December 04 2011 23:53 Refallen wrote:
Not a smurf; I lurk TL while watching SC2, discovered this forum, and enjoyed reading through TL Mafia XLVII!

"Zodiac" lists are fine as a guideline for medics, especially in a game with newer players or players who are otherwise unsure as to who is a likely n1 target. Even if they decide against following it, it will discourage mafia from shooting into it. Given the recent success rate of TL medics, I think the main early game function of medics is to discourage mafia from being overly bold with their shots rather than to actually save someone.

I think we shouldn't be lynching into presumably active veteran players on on day1, given the number of lurking new players that will likely be present.

On December 06 2011 00:22 redFF wrote:

I don't see a contradiction in these posts, what point are you trying to make here?

On December 06 2011 00:34 supersoft wrote:


prplhz maybe. But redFF?!

On December 06 2011 00:41 redFF wrote:

how does it "feel" different, that's incredibly vague.

On December 06 2011 00:35 Mattchew wrote:
Also, can someone explain to me the options Mafia has for night KP. I know there can be a range but I am wondering if it will be like 3 KP (like the half living mafia of last game) or is there other set ups for killing

On December 06 2011 02:16 Palmar wrote:
I had already claimed I was lying.

On November 24 2011 18:23 Palmar wrote:
I will be running a strict Lynch-All-Liars policy (LAL) and will push hard to enforce it. With a game this big we cannot afford townies running amok with some ridiculous plans of how lying will somehow benefit town. Do not lie, you will be held accountable.

On December 06 2011 02:44 supersoft wrote:


wanna explain that any further?
You're scum and you know soup and v7 are both town?! How is Palmars action bad, since we don't know the result?!
scumslip?!

On December 06 2011 04:09 Zephirdd wrote:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=291212&currentpage=33#641
Radfield: My only issue with that post is that you didn't say anything about... erm... the one topic that is burning here. I mean the Palmar/V7 bullshit. Why do you think neither are lynch material?

On December 06 2011 04:24 VisceraEyes wrote:
For the record Rad, it is NOT viable to act scummy to survive N1 when half the thread and now a vet claim IN thread that they believe that's what he's doing. It makes his "efforts" useless because scum then assume that's what he's doing and shoot him anyway (if he's town). I doubt Palmar would be doing something so transparent. But then again, I haven't seen him play in a while. I still think he's scum. And I still want him to hang.

My 2 cents.

On December 06 2011 05:03 Zephirdd wrote:


This and



This

makes me feel it's a bad idea to vote Palmar now. His earlier posts were okay, and I basically get that he was laughing hard at the whole situation that happened today.

I'm still unsure about voting V7 over anyone else. Putting myself on his place, it sounds like something I would have done(albeit not on Soap). Doesn't help that Soap hasnt flipped yet.

Gah, back to mark zero again.

If anything Corrupt is my strongest(1%) scumread at this point, just because of my retarded head and its tendency to see that last response of his as a post made with help of scumbuddies, but that's a nonlogic thought as its huge WIFOM -_-

In a sense, Mattchew isn't helping either, but he doesn't look like the red cardboard that came out of a Mountain-only MTG meeting that happened on the middle of China under red lights that he was on XLVII, so I'd say he is a second here, but it isn't any big deal at all.

Gah. ##unvote Palmar

On December 06 2011 05:17 Zephirdd wrote:


I didn't echo someone's thoughts on Corrupt. Sure I posted after redFF, but that's what I truly believed at the time.

Either way, it's not like you are at any danger of anything at all, why are you worrying so much? I'm just throwing away my thoughts(something that you haven't done), just for the sake of transparency.

On December 05 2011 04:54 Zephirdd wrote:


Context. Simplifying it, redFF convinced me it's not a big deal to throw a vote on someone you find scummy.

And I'm not regretting it at this point...

On December 06 2011 09:50 Drazerk wrote:


Other than meta. Explain how Palmar is town

On December 06 2011 10:14 Drazerk wrote:


How does it HAVE to be palmar?

It can be one of his scum buddies helping him.

On December 06 2011 10:15 Drazerk wrote:


Palmar isn't town and even if he is it gives us a lot more information than a no lynch ever will and we won't have to deal with him trolling for another day and repeating this whole mess once more

On December 06 2011 23:16 redFF wrote:

YOU MAKE NO SENSE

On December 07 2011 01:39 prplhz wrote:
@redFF

Hey, what do you think about Mattchew?

On December 07 2011 20:44 prplhz wrote:
Hey, I've decided to try my hand at some case writing even though I haven't done this successfully for god knows how long. I still want to lynch vaderseven and TruthBringer but I don't think that's going to happen today so here's another guy I'm suspicious of.

On Mattchew
The guy starts this game by joking around for three posts, to look active rather than to help. He is then called out for it by Radfield and I, after which he doesn't joke around anymore at all. I think this looks like mafia who got attention he didn't like and then he changes his behavior abruptly.

In his next post he comments on current event in thread, but what strikes me is that he calls Palmar "suspicious" and also attempts to discredit syllogism for what he believes is a logical inconsistency (but it isn't). This will be a trademark of Mattchew's posts. He does the same thing to Palmar here when he quotes how Palmar support LALiars in last game but lies here, indirectly saying that Palmar should be lynched but without saying it himself.

Next thing he does is argue a bit with Zephirdd when Zephirdd calls him out on his relative uselessness. His defense is not trying to be townie, it is not trying to prove that Zephirdd is wrong in any way, his defense is actually an attack on Zephirdd. I think mafia mostly feel guilty in the charges against them, but they still have to do something about it, so pointing out the flaws of others hoping that attention will be directed at them instead is something a lot of mafia do. He is not saying that Zephirdd is wrong, he is saying that Zephirdd is being a hypocrite, but this does not make his attack less valid.

Next thing he does is go for redFF in this post. I find this weird because his reasoning is that redFF has gone for Palmar and is now going for Corrupt, but he said that redFF looked townie in this post, and that was after redFF tried to get Palmar lynched in the beginning of the game. Also, Mattchew has a pattern of going after "scum tells", his attack on Zephirdd consisted only of this too.

In his next post he refuses to vote for Palmar and vaderseven. but the manner in which this is done is more interested. Like with the "prplhz, Drazerk and redFF look townie", I think scum like to band up names and then comment on them collectively instead of forming an opinion on each one of them. This way they don't have to argue for their opinion and they will hopefully get the support of the townies who are on that list because he is actually called them scum. I believe that there is a scum on both of those lists of names, but Mattchew thinks he will get away with calling them townie without actually having to argue for it because he grouped them with other townies.

In this post he actually says no-lynch > lyching Palmar at a very critical point in the game, Palmar was getting pushed very hard and was looking to be lynched if it wasn't the the collective intervention of just about every veteran in this game except Drazerk. The thing I think is weird about this is how hard he's apparently changed his stance on Palmar, from trolling lying RNGing to "townie". The post is also very egocentric, what he does here is say "Palmar is town, I'm not voting for him." but he doesn't care what everybody else does. Why isn't he trying to get people off Palmar and onto something else instead of just washing his hands and then watching the blood bath that seemed almost inevitable at the point?

Overall his style is being aggressive on other people's integrity while very defensive on his own. All his aggression seems to be to discredit other people instead of actually finding scum and he seems more concerned with his own innocence than with other's guilt.

##Vote Mattchew

---

@Radfield You need to do something today, that night2-deal you made yesterday wasn't accepted by anybody with a brain. Palmar has started contributing and so will you have to.

@VisceraEyes I appreciate the effort but Palmar isn't getting lynched today and there are 5 other scum out there for you to catch right? Focus on somebody else.

On December 08 2011 00:20 Palmar wrote:
Hey Mattchew, vote annul.

On December 08 2011 00:27 Drazerk wrote:


NO ONE SHOULD STEP UP.

We already have 1 medic in the open we don't need both of us

On December 08 2011 01:36 annul wrote:
holy shit i wake up and i have 6 votes on me lol

why the fuck is palmar of all people leading a wagon on ME of all people? did you all forget the shit he pulled yesterday? letting palmar run shit = outed jack and a dead green

for what its worth reds may not actually get 3 KP -- i logically deduced this because A. who the fuck would shoot me night 1, and B. night vigs usually dont get to shoot night 1. yes i now see syllo's flip and i know they can but they usually cant. yeah syllo was on my ass all of night 1 so he probably did, but i didnt even think it was possible to do until i checked the OP

i find it funny that palmar keeps with the omgus trend and thinks "oh my god, annul told town to cool off in 47 and he isnt doing it now, he must be red, GET HIM" yeah in 47 you were MAYOR, thats why i pulled everyone off you.

6 votes in an instawagon because.... i claimed the truth, that i got shot, immediately upon seeing the PM? which not a single red player would ever do? against all the shit palmar did day 1 and his logical failures day 2? LOLOLOL



the medic who saved me needs to shut the fuck up and not claim. whoever said "ill keep on annul until you claim" needs to be looked at really hard

On December 08 2011 01:51 Radfield wrote:



That's because there is already a ongoing discussion topic which you only touched on a little bit. I agree that Erandorr looks like scum right now. I disagree with redff, he spams and posts 1 liners every game regardless of alignment. In his case, it is not a scum tell.

Both Erandorr and RedFF claimed roleblocked, but that does not mean they necessarily have a role. Oftentimes in games you are informed you were roleblocked even if you are vanilla town.

The chances of v7 and Palmar being both scum is astronomically low in my eyes. Not only do BOTH of them seem like townies, and BOTH have claimed likely town roles, but there is very little chance that the conversation between them was manufactured.

On December 08 2011 01:54 annul wrote:


yeah because this is obviously the most likely scenario, that if we were all red, we would all be collectively circle bussing each other

zzz

On December 08 2011 02:06 prplhz wrote:
@Radfield

I'm not a big fan of you calling me "prp" it kinda reminds me of "perpetrator", can't you call me "prpl" or "prplhz" instead? I call you Radfield all the time.

Can you outline for me what is bothering you about me? I can see how you might have a problem with the two other people on that list, though I don't think either of them is a better lynch than annul at all. I'd like to stop you from writing a huge accusation on me because I doubt I'm getting lynched today and I wouldn't want you to waste time on a big post on me.

On December 08 2011 02:09 Erandorr wrote:


Interesting. Would you mind explaining why us telling you our roles is pro-town?

On December 08 2011 05:27 Palmar wrote:


yes. barring a medic claim from a person I'm willing to believe, I am that certain.

If annul flips green I'll take all the blame, if part of that is to be lynched I'll accept that.

On December 08 2011 05:42 Erandorr wrote:


If you are so convinced, why don't you make that case?

On December 08 2011 05:44 Lanaia wrote:
Personally, I wouldn't've protected either annul or syllo if I'd been a medic. I'd've protected supersoft.
A newer player could have protected annul over syllo for lack of knowing.

Erandorr, one more thing...

Why are you so blatantly following Palmar?
In your answers, I saw very little thought that was your own.

@Mattchew
If you're looking for a case, why don't you make one on Eran?

Syllo is one of the best players period he would be an extremely important kill. Plus palmar respects him a ton and if those two got things rolling together that would get very scary

why would you waste anything on annul??? especially a double hit.

Nah shit happens to overconfident scum. if they were smart they would look at all the players who were content sitting back and not contributing shit (like me). One or two players have to set themselves up to lead town if we get palmar out of the way. so grey and red , get on it!

On December 08 2011 06:09 vaderseven wrote:
Stop asking for a mysterious medic to come forward. The person that can best say why a medic would have protected annul is that medic himself. Why give the scum a possible way to detect you through motive posting.

Assuming the alignment of an unclaimed role and/or determining the algnment of someone by assuming the alignment of an unclaimed role is rediculous.

Annul claims he was shot and protected. Annul is not confirmed scum by this and a doc protecting him confirms nothing.

As a town we need to stop basing huge conckusions off of ALMOST 100% unconfirmed data. You want to know what an easy case for scum to jump on looks like? One that is based in assumed facts that are just not confirmable.

I have no idea what annuls alignment is but I can certwinly say there is nothing about his claim of being protected in no way suggests any one single conclusion let alone confirming one.

On December 08 2011 06:32 Lanaia wrote:
Mattchew, you ignored my question...



I would appreciate an answer to this. If I've missed it, I'm sorry. I just don't get the logic behind it. I really fail to see where you were going with it.

Also I'm pretty sure you're not supposed to quote the QT from last game as I'm pretty sure we never gave it out.

Read this spoiler please.
+ Show Spoiler +

On December 08 2011 06:29 redFF wrote:

this post is so scummy I don't even.

On December 08 2011 06:42 prplhz wrote:


Now stop talking about past game QTs.

On December 08 2011 06:47 redFF wrote:



prplz is probably palmar's buddy.

On December 08 2011 06:48 prplhz wrote:

Use them all you want, people were just talking about whether it was posted and whether it should be posted and stuff like that. There is it, it was posted and that's all there is to say about that, move on to stuff that is actually related to the game we're playing right now.

On December 08 2011 06:52 Lanaia wrote:


Another question, then...
If they were doing that, why wouldn't they have shot a more experienced and contributing player than Soap? Why would they do it d1?

What exactly makes you think they did this?



I'm not sure, but it's technically private still, and where I'm from, you're typically not allowed to use info outside of the game that not everyone has access to. It very well could be different here.
My apologies. I was incorrect.


Missed this a while ago. I really don't see why we'd lynch both and I also don't see why we need yet another roleclaim.

I do agree with Toad's case on Eran.

Mattchew, red is correct in that your post saying why you're going to vote red is scummy. You say you haven't seen a case that you truly believe in, which implies the case on red is one you don't believe in. If that's so, why are you on red?

On December 08 2011 08:33 Radfield wrote:


I also felt prplhz was looking townie halfway through yesterday, but his actions are against him.

Truthbringer was over-the-top scummy with his first posts, which is very very rarely a scum trait. Since that I feel he has been decent.

vaderseven is almost surely town. He might be my strongest town read. The fact that prplhz is still pushing for lynching him seems like he's not even paying attention. If he's a jack he is town, if he's a jack he can prove his role. Add to that his posting is very green, and you have someone not worth looking at for a long time. If he is miraculously still around on day 4/5 after having done nothing for town, then yeah, but not until then.

The case on Mattchew was pretty thin in my eyes, though to be honest I skim-read it. I had mattchew down as prob town. However, I just re-read his filter and it looks worse than I recall. In particular his posts after getting called out.

There are definitely mafia motives with posts like these:



I have completely changed my views on the medic revealing himself... I didn't realize how stupid that would be until it was told to me.



He also made the worlds shortest 'case' against erandorr.

That being said I'm not real sure he is scum, but he certainly reads less green than I thought.

So where does that leave me on prplhz you ask? I'm not really sure. His defense was decent: truthbringer IS less of a raw newb than I realized, PYPI was multi scum teams so is moot, my points about tone are pretty weak. But his reaction to the v7 vig shot, his justification of finding v7 scummy, and his semi flip-flop on annul rub me very much the wrong way. I'm not really sure which way to take it from here.

On December 08 2011 12:27 redFF wrote:
scumteam atm is palmar, prplhz, zephirdd mattchew and then someone else i dunno maybe rad?

On December 08 2011 18:58 Lanaia wrote:
I'm sorry. I know I said I would post, but I literally just spent 14 hours on my project and am almost done. It's now bedtime. I didn't realize it would take so long. I will post first thing in the morning.


Can you at the very least explain why you'd be surprised?

On December 08 2011 22:50 Palmar wrote:


The people on Annul's wagon have nothing to do with whether or not you should be supporting it. You should simply look at the strength of the case and determine for yourself if it's valid enough to earn him your vote. If you always consider who else shares your opinion you'll never get anywhere because nothing stops mafia from bussing teammates.

I have looked at Errandor. There is nothing about his play that conclusively puts him down as scum. Sure, there are questionable things in there, but that's not a reason to lynch him today. I'm offering you a good opportunity to gauge his alignment by lynching annul. Lynching Errandor will not solve anything that's going on in town now. It's basically an excuse for lynching a scummy lurker. That was for day 1, today we're going after mafia.

And I just gave you mafia.

On December 08 2011 23:12 Palmar wrote:


Woah, are you intentionally being thick?

There is no way to tell anything about the alignment of a person being bandwagoned or followed by looking at the people following them. This is because you cannot scumhunt against player a based on the actions of player b. Thus you cannot deduce annul's alignment by looking at who's voting for him.

However, you can deduce a player's alignment by looking at whom he's voting for. Because in that scenario you're evaluating player a's alignment based on the actions of player a.

To make it simple:

Annul is not responsible for the people voting him, and I'm not responsible for the people sheeping my case (which everyone should be doing). Thus: The people on Annul's wagon have nothing to do with whether or not you should be supporting it.

Errandor is however responsible for his own vote, and his own decision for following me, thus: I'm offering you a good opportunity to gauge his [Errandor's] alignment by lynching annul.

If you fail to see the difference of people being responsible for their own actions, and people being responsible for other's actions, I'm not sure I can help you.

On December 08 2011 23:28 Palmar wrote:


Why not?

If toad thinks Erandorr is mafia, and Erandorr votes for annul, that should have no impact on whether or not the case against annul is valid, because Erandorr isn't annul, they're seperate people. Toad could be wrong about Erandorr, I could be wrong about annul, and Erandorr could be bussing annul. You cannot read anything about whether or not the annul wagon is valid based on who is on it.

However, while the fact Erandorr votes for annul says nothing about annul, it does say a lot about Erandorr, because... Erandorr is Erandorr.

I don't get what's complicated about this.

On December 08 2011 23:55 Palmar wrote:


Yes.

On December 09 2011 00:01 Toadesstern wrote:

please stop these things I know palmar is confident in his own and might be willing to do such a thing but it's NOT going to help town, it's just a tool to make a case look stronger "see I even would agree to that deal, np ezpz".
NOONE should agree to that kind of deal unless he's 100% certain his target is scum. There is no 100% chance to know someones alignment in this game unless you're mafia and know it. Therefore it's at max something like 99%.
Even if you somehow got a 99% clear case which I doubt we have here (neither annul nore erandorr) there is 99 cases in which town won't get an advantage because palmar was right and 1 case in which we're just fucked because palmar's the next guy who's getting lynched because he was wrong although he believes in his case.

So unless you think yourself that palmar is 100% scum there's no reason to suggest such a thing because that "bad" case isn't a bad case if we lynch a mafia. Therefore, stop it.

On December 09 2011 00:03 hyshes wrote:


He can't back out if we force it on him. If we are with 16 who support this 100% (so me +15, palmar not included) i'm willing to do this.

On December 09 2011 00:10 hyshes wrote:


And 1 for 1 trades are good for town

On December 09 2011 00:16 Palmar wrote:
Mattchew is actually arguing that this would be a terrible idea, so i think he simply wanted to gauge my reactions.

On December 09 2011 03:37 Zephirdd wrote:
I just had this random thought, as we seem to be in this fight between Erandorr or annul's lynch.

Ask yourself which flip gives you the most.
- If Erandorr flips scum, congrats we got scum.
- If Erandorr flips town, fuck our lives.

- If annul flips scum, we can disregard his protection claim or assume it exists; either way, we got a scum and that also should increase Palmars credibility(which seems to be worrying a lot of people)
- If annul flips town, Palmar's credibility goes downhill BUT we confirm that there is at least one town-aligned medic other than the supposed Drazerk claim.

either way, annul's flip should provide us much more information than Erandorr's flip.

On December 09 2011 03:51 Toadesstern wrote:

The problem I have with that is that I'm not exactly willing to lynch for information. I am reading the case on annul again right after this post. A couple hours I thought it's weaker than my cae but who knows what sticking my nose into that case might make me see what I did not see earlier.

Saying what I said is bad because you only have to look at the case when it hurts palmars case but when it's supporting his case it's okay?

On December 09 2011 07:49 VisceraEyes wrote:


I disagree. Erandorr was playing the game just fine. He was calling for a lynch of a Vet d1, okay? He built a monster case on Radfield d1. He didn't provide ANY content though. If he were unable to post, yeah, sure, okay...not enough information, poor sampling of posts, yadda yadda...but he was playing, man! I have no doubt that he was playing sick, but that does NOT make him town, I'm sorry. It just doesn't.

On December 09 2011 12:45 kingjames01 wrote:


Just because one is pitted against the other doesn't prove that 1 is Town and the other is mafia. Stop using false dichotomies.

Just come out and admit that you are, in fact, mafia





Why are you so desperate to lynch annul? So that you can kill Palmar when annul fllips Blue?



Why would you switch your vote from a player who you are convinced is mafia?

On December 09 2011 12:48 annul wrote:
explain to me why redff is better than refallen? i like KJ's points a lot

On December 10 2011 00:48 redFF wrote:

really? you're telling him to stop tunneling?

On December 10 2011 01:54 redFF wrote:

you want me to give mafia a comprehensive threat assessment list at the start of the nigh? I'll wait until day if I even decide to answer you.

On December 10 2011 06:08 sandroba wrote:
Why are you assuming annul is town in your most likely scenario? There is no town motivation at all in anything he has done so far.

On December 10 2011 06:12 Toadesstern wrote:
because I felt we did not have a majority for Drazerk and Erandorr who were my primary targets at that point in time. At least I did not want to act selfish and just shoot who I thought was scummy without looking for recent accusations.
Therefore I looked up rads suspicious list and picked someone we both think is suspicious

On December 10 2011 14:25 annul wrote:
okay so now that the breadcrumbed parity cop has a guarantee in palmar, he is essentially a regular DT now. so we have an outed DT and a two claimed medics in refallen and drazerk, we have v7 and myself who have certain night powers, and palmar with the double vote

On December 10 2011 15:03 Lanaia wrote:



Draz and I have already gone over this. I think it was the beginning of night.

On December 10 2011 15:19 Lanaia wrote:



Mattchew, this quote chain is mostly it.
I mean, it's obviously not every single possibility (he could technically be scum but I don't really think so right now).
Scum doesn't always kill PRs, you know....

On December 10 2011 21:50 Drazerk wrote:
for argument's sake and confirming both palmar / refallen. I protected sandroba last night so refallen has to be a medic.

On December 11 2011 03:26 redFF wrote:
my play is so different from my scum play it's unreal. I'm gonna pull a palmar and say the good players know im town.

also if nobody claims a second roleblock then either eran was lying or rad was rb'd or we have a town rb.

On December 11 2011 04:48 Lanaia wrote:


No no no no no. I will not lynch Palmar as I believe Zeph's claim.


Why do you think that Drazerk's claim is bullshit? Why are you assuming that there are only two medics in the setup? It's technically possible there's a third out there.




But we don't even know for sure that we have a godfather or that it's chosen, do we? (or is it an unwritten required rule on TL?)


I'm voting annul.

On December 12 2011 11:38 Lanaia wrote:


If they don't think he's scum, why should they vote him? I'd say it's a pretty damn good reason to NOT vote him.

Mattchew, do you think annul is scum? It feels like the only reason you think he's scum is because he claimed to be hit n1, which has been confirmed. That's literally the only reason I see in your filter for you yelling about annul being scum.
How do you feel about the medic who claimed protecting annul? I haven't seen you mention that so I'm curious. Does it change your opinion

You only voted annul because you didn't think red would be lynched. As soon as it looked like it, you switched. Why? Why not just be on the person you think is most scum the whole time?
I'd really like to know that.



I think I'm starting to agree with annul in regards to drazerk, though. I know LaL isn't always the best, but it's kind of always been something I agree with. Now that I look back on it, draz's claim was kind of insane.

On December 12 2011 11:35 kingjames01 wrote:


Mattchew: What is your stance on redFF?

On December 12 2011 11:48 Lanaia wrote:


What if they were to both flip town? How would you feel, having advocated a double-lynch?
WHY do you think annul is scummy? How do you FEEL about the medic claiming to have saved him? Is something wrong with someone being a huge part of the discussion? Would you prefer he lurks? You don't have that many fewer pages than he does. (I can't make that last statement grammatically sound :/)


....
Why do you bother quoting someone only to say lol. How is THAT productive?

On December 12 2011 11:58 kingjames01 wrote:


Well, he has been pretty vocal against redFF so I can understand his intent. My real question didn't come across correctly but it tied in with the discussion of double lynching. I'll ask again:

Mattchew: You have stated that you think that annul should be lynched as well as redFF. So is it your belief that they are both mafia?

Please explain your reasoning as to how mafia would allow the possibility for the only viable lynch candidates to be both on their side.

On December 12 2011 12:04 kingjames01 wrote:
Mattchew: think about this for a minute. There are 6 mafia members and 13 Town remaining.

Propose a reasonable mafia-oriented plan in which both annul and redFF are lynch candidates and there's relatively little talk about ANYONE else.


Wait, what? Don't we have another hour???

On December 13 2011 01:04 hyshes wrote:
I'm up for a Mattchew lynch tommorow.

On December 13 2011 03:55 hyshes wrote:



With these kind of questions, i want to lynch mattchew 100%

On December 13 2011 05:50 Drazerk wrote:
I vote we kill Mattchew tomorrow

On December 14 2011 05:35 annul wrote:
so who wants to actually explain to me why they think drazerk is town?

On December 14 2011 07:31 annul wrote:
though read mattchew's filter lol

he pushes palmar for a while and then instaflips onto me... then instaflips off of me and onto redff... then instantly ges back onto me...

his main argument all the while is "annul claimed to be shot and no medic came out to claim he got saved" -- now we know 1. i did get shot and 2. medics did save me

so what is HIS reason now for being on me? oh yeah "well annul is detracting from scumhunting and is 70% of the town debate" <--- not something i control!

when asked about me or redff he says "They are both bad for town. That usually means they are scum correct? They both have provided nothing and annul has been distracting. I believe they are both scum"

proven wrong once... will be proven wrong again if i flip. so really you have provided even less of a nothing than i have, because i have to act to save myself; you do not and you chose poorly.


so i mean this is what you contribute: the drazerk defense:







and lastly, something that encapsulates your play style this game in some perfect and pristine format...




TWENTY EIGHT MINUTES LATER




res ipsa loquitor.

On December 14 2011 08:18 TruthBringer wrote:
Regarding drazerk, I don't think he executed it that well, but his plan was apparent. He was trying to get shot because he was a veteran.

It wouldn't have been a safe play for a mafia to claim to be a really powerful role (which he did) because then the mafia would gun him down really quickly and it would look suspicious if they didn't. He was hoping the trap would already be sprung, the mafia would attack him the veteran and he could explain it all.

He was trying to be a hero, but it didn't work out.

Now, annul, v7 has all the same abilities as annul. That doesn't prove that annul is town, but I think other things are compelling.
1. The balance argument. 6 mafia vs 19 town. I doubt mafia would be given a role with a day vig power.
2. Not killing Palmar. annul could have killed Palmar earlier because Palmar did seem suspicious early in the game. He could have easily rationalized it, but he didn't. Palmar was already tunnelling annul early on day 2. At that point, Palmar wasn't very highly regarded as town.
3. Giving his shot to Toadesstern. He didn't know who Toad was going to have him shoot. I'm sure he didn't expect Toad to shoot prplhz. He couldn't have just backed out if Toad told him to kill someone who really was mafia. If he really were mafia, he could have easily shot redFF or someone else who had been very suspicious all game.

Hyshes: Hyshes has made no effort towards being pro-town.

He has the MO of the average mafia player this game (seemingly.) The mafia have been staying below the radar and the townies have been the ones drawing attention to themselves. Honestly, as a town, we've made it really easy for the mafia. redFF did several shady things that brought attention to himself. So have Palmar, v7, annul, and drazerk. I'll admit that I don't know that annul, drazerk, and v7 are town, but it seems that the mafia have been able to just lay low this game and watch the town be self-destructive by some players drawing all the attention to themselves and others just focusing on them.

The mafia haven't had any need to do anything bold like claim RB immune medic or offer a shot to the most townie considered person. They've been able to lie low and I think that's how we'll find them, the quiet, unhelpful, uninvolved players, like hyshes.

##vote hyshes

On December 14 2011 08:31 Lanaia wrote:

A vanilla townie, you know, like how everyone we lynched has been.

Mattchew, you seem to be assuming all our PRs have claimed. Do you think that is the case?

On December 14 2011 08:45 Lanaia wrote:


Personally, if you're going to assume one isn't, you'll have to possibly assume other roles aren't right.

We're also confirmed to have an RB but we don't know what side it's on.

On December 14 2011 10:54 VisceraEyes wrote:
I'm not sure about a mass-claim - I mean, with as little cohesion as this town has, I doubt that would do anything but introduce a lot of WIFOM and confusion, right? Wouldn't that make it harder to find scum, not easier? Let me know if I'm wrong, I haven't been in many games with mass-claims.

I've looked into Drazerk and I still like him as a scum-pick, but I'm also looking into Sandroba, hyshes and Annul as alternatives as we speak. Before rereading, I want to state for the record that I have to exert special effort to look at Annul and Sandroba objectively, because I have a town and scum read on them already respectively. Just FYI.

On December 14 2011 19:44 Toadesstern wrote:
what the fuck is going on. Yesterday I was about to vote annul because V7 said he's scum, than he changed to "do not vote annul because he's not scum" and now he's back to annul is scum?
Is there going to be more changes comming or do we now have a final statement?

And yes I haven't voted yet because of what I said above. V7 first said he's scum, than he said he's not and I went to bed 2am. Now I woke up an see a shitload of text I have to read.

On December 04 2011 20:05 ZBot wrote:
Current votes:

annul (11): bumatlarge, Drazerk, Lanaia, sandroba, Mattchew, vaderseven, xsksc, hyshes, Refallen, TruthBringer, Toadesstern

vaderseven (2): annul, VisceraEyes

hyshes (2): kingjames01, TruthBringer, annul, -annul, Risen, -TruthBringer

sandroba (1): Jackal58

Drazerk (0): annul, VisceraEyes, -annul, -VisceraEyes

Voting ends at December 15 2011 13:00. (That's approximately 4:37:19 from now.)

On December 15 2011 08:38 Lanaia wrote:
Mattchew, why don't you answer your own question?

On December 15 2011 08:52 Jackal58 wrote:

Sandroba, Drazerk, KJ, You,

On December 15 2011 10:56 sandroba wrote:
LOL GG
/dance

On December 15 2011 10:59 sandroba wrote:
Timezones differences suck =)

On December 15 2011 11:22 Lanaia wrote:


They appear to think he claimed scum. I'm a bit confused myself.
I don't understand...
How do we know this is a scumclaim?

On December 15 2011 11:28 VisceraEyes wrote:
Don't listen to his lies! GG indicates that he thinks the game is over..i.e., he secured the mislynch and it's over now. Sandroba is SCUM!