EPTTL Mafia XLVII - Page 76
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annul
United States2841 Posts
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Risen
United States7927 Posts
On November 26 2011 22:17 annul wrote: "if we have no reads on him, EASY LYNCH TARGET!" no. this is a horrible and terribad idea. you dont lynch people because you have no alignment read on them. this is retarded and is what mafia wants, not town. like i said it could be any name in there, not just YM. the logic itself is flawed. Annul acting hella scummy. | ||
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Serejai
6007 Posts
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Risen
United States7927 Posts
On November 26 2011 23:55 deconduo wrote: Annul, kita, syllo, Jackal are all town. Kurumi and Kenpachi are probably town. WBG and Sandro are scum bussing each other. BC and Palmar probably scum too. Looks like we're gonna have 2 scum in office. And now I'm not so sure annul is scum. This looks like a mafia post trying to make us think he's defending the people on that list when he might actually be protecting some of those he's calling scum. So really this post is entirely useless and decon is scum. | ||
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supersoft
Germany3729 Posts
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kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
-Have the 4-5 most experienced players on the team run legitimate campaigns to try to get elected. With an 80 person game, you're most experienced players are going to stick out like sour thumbs when they are still alive on day 6. They need an excuse to still be alive and being elected gives them that excuse. -Have the next 4-5 experienced players run elections too. Make the top 4-5 look good by comparison, but serve as an alternative in case your top players campaigns fall through. -Spread the votes equally over all candidates, leaving no trace of support on day one. Here is my concern with Palmar: There is no doubt in my mind he runs for mayor as scum. He plays pro-town leader as scum, while pushing town targets, with legitimate arguments that make sense from a town perspective. In addition, there isn't another player that's more willing to bus his scumbuddies for town cred than Palmar. Would he probably run as town as well? Probably, so chalk it up to a null-tell. What I find weird is that people are voting Palmar because they feel its easy to tell when he is scum because its when he is wrong. Well how big of a leash do we give him? Two mislynches? By the time we finally lynch him, that's a 26 town for 1 scum mayor trade. Sure, this could apply to any mayor, which is why we should completely limit their power. We choose who they lynch on day one and we don't blindly follow their agenda from day two and on. We tell them when we want our double lynch and they are forced to listen. My concern with Sandroba: 1 post into the game and he is already attempting to buy town cred using false methods: On November 24 2011 15:28 sandroba wrote: Also the clues that would point towards me are supposed to be ridiculously easy, since I didn't put anything on my profile, so if was scum no one would have a problem identifying it. He mentions this in his initial mayoral candidacy post, but this means absolutely nothing. So what, you don't have a profile? Unless its day 14 and all 13 of your scumbuddies are already dead, why on earth would a clue ever point to a scum mayor sandroba anyways. The lack of viable alternative candidates is extremely concerning. I'd still be open to votes if people are willing or we should start looking for an alternative like deconduo or supersoft. Currently there is no choice in the election, there are 2 and a half candidates that have a chance of getting elected. Coming out of day one without a choice is the worst possible thing we can do. There is still more than enough time to find someone else to vote for. The most active player is not necessarily the best player to elect. Every game as scum, I try to come up with some sort of blue plan that can give town a slight advantage in exchange for town cred. Reducing the mafia kp should be the priority. That's why we want to start using our double lynches from the start. In a normal game, maybe I'd advise against this, but that's without clues and without a mafia team with 8 kp. Sure, we might be able to be more accurate later on, but for every cycle we let the mafia maintain their 1:8 kill ratio, we are put in a worse and worse position. Sheriff is probably even stronger than mayor. As I said before, a sheriff can protect a town leader from an unlimited amount of kps. It can also semi-confirm town players who are successfully saved by hits. I know I'd be willing to make a 1:1 trade as scum, to eliminate the threat. Currently I don't feel comfortable with Palmar or Sandroba as my sheriff. I still haven't had a chance to read a large part of the thread, but I'm not lurking, just extremely busy with the holidays. What we do need to do is shake things up, because the current thread state is giving us very little information. | ||
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Risen
United States7927 Posts
On November 26 2011 23:47 Jackal58 wrote: When I first started playing here town raped scum I'd say 8 out of 10 games. Consistently. Of course we weren't wading through 20 pages at a time of people attacking each others intelligence and abilities. How the fuck do I analyze 20 pages of "NO YOU". This is why town loses now. I have already stated twice my thoughts on a DT plan. After some more consideration I have gone from simply believing it will never work due to the inability to control a random unknown quantity of unknown people to thinking that this plan is actually down right scummy. It does a few things quite well for the scum team. 1 - Any list of players generated (Whether 3 or 10 doesn't matter) is simply going to generate that number of people screaming "I'm not scum!" "Why am I on that list!" etc. It doesn't foster conversation. It creates confrontation. Scum Agenda 2 - Any list put forth is easily manipulated by scum to keep their members off of it. Or to at least minimize the number of scum on it. Scum Agenda. 3 - Verification of those players alignments on the list is only accomplished by having our Vigs shoot into the list. Again Scum Agenda. This entire plan is a scum fantasy come true. Hey guys we are getting to control DTs and Vigs this game. Woo hoo! Just my thoughts on it at the moment. This also feels horribly wrong. Why would any plan put into an easily followed instruction set be anti-town behavior? Calling out something like this feels like anti-town behavior to me. Shit's getting so confusing >.< | ||
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annul
United States2841 Posts
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Curu
Canada2817 Posts
On November 27 2011 01:44 Serejai wrote: All of the candidates seem sketchy to me as well. That's why I voted for sinani206. He may not be putting up a serious campaign but he's a veteran player and is far less scummy than the other people running for mayor. I'd rather have a veteran in office (even if he's a troll) than a veteran in office. Somebody has never played with sinani before roflmao. | ||
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supersoft
Germany3729 Posts
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vaderseven
United States2556 Posts
I am downright impressed at the amount of 100% fo sure style statements of X person is scum. Having read how the roles work (no night 0 and no day abilites) and understanding mafia in general the ONLY reason any player can say 'I am very sure x is scum' is due to metagame style knowledge of how a player should act. Do you guys know all of each other that dang well? I kinda doubt it just by the nature of the size of this mafia community. It really blows my mind how some people dont just say it about one person but they create scum lists... This whole election thing seems counterproductive imho. Maybe Im just different but I prefer the traditional joke vote phase followed by attempt at some seriousness while knowing it still a shot in the dark followed by a flip and a night. Day 1 isn't supposed to be about anything more than setting up the rest of the dang game and this election stuff is like totally pushing us into the position of having to make a good call on, even by mafia standards, a hilariously small amount of information. Mafia is a glorified guessing game but this election day 1 stuff exaggerates that to an extreme. | ||
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Serejai
6007 Posts
On November 27 2011 01:48 supersoft wrote: sinani is no veteran. go read my post about him. He's like the worst possible mayor out of the players I know. Your main post about him: On November 24 2011 15:36 supersoft wrote: lol sinani. Seriously. If someone votes you, I am worried about this persons state of mind. Care to elaborate? You followed it up with "I'm prejudice against him". You have yet to provide any solid reasoning to back up your claims other than constantly repeating that you don't like him. Sounds like supersoft has an anti-town agenda. | ||
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vaderseven
United States2556 Posts
On November 27 2011 01:51 annul wrote: btw definitely agree with using double lynch on day 2 This seems to make logical sense. I think it, from a pure math point of view, is by far the best choice. | ||
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supersoft
Germany3729 Posts
On November 27 2011 01:55 Serejai wrote: Your main post about him: Care to elaborate? You followed it up with "I'm prejudice against him". You have yet to provide any solid reasoning to back up your claims other than constantly repeating that you don't like him. Sounds like supersoft has an anti-town agenda. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=285690&user=64722¤tpage=4 oh boy. Next time you don't read properly, I am going to treat you like sinani. I have a history with sinani and this guy ruined several games. I don't know why he's still allowed to sign up. I mean he's only fulfilling the mandatory voting and the 3 posts per day rule. I don't think he ever played to actually win a game. | ||
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Mr. Wiggles
Canada5894 Posts
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minus_human
4784 Posts
ey215, I tend to agree, even though you provide no reasoning for why you think at least 2 of Sandroba, Palmar, and BC are scum. This is my point of view: Palmar is most likely scum. I will explain at the end of the post It's clear that mafia will try to have the mayor elected from their own ranks. This seems to me like just a sound strategy for scum. Seeing as this game is full of newbies and generally inactive posters, I have the feeling that the scum could focus their votes more efficiently on one candidate or another, since they have an additional topic in which to discuss. I'm guessing many of the new players (myself included) are just overwhelmed by the volume and speed of the posting in this thread, and hence their inactivity. While this holds true for mafia, it should be much less prevalent, more specifically I suspect that newbie players, which are scum, have an easier time posting in the mafia quicktopic. The only reason why this is relevant is to establish that even in a game with plenty of new people, scum most likely have the ability to efficiently focus their votes. If BC or sardroba were scum, it would make sense that by the end of the voting period, most of the mafia team would start voting for either one of them, in order to have one of them elected. After all, they have 16 vote points to spend. This however would raise some serious suspicions, but I still think they would do it. It is possible that BC and sardroba are BOTH scum, and they are even fighting each other in order to avoid suspicion. In this case the scum team's plan would be to have either one of them elected, and the other one seem as a distraction/legitimate counter candidate. It is even more possible to have Palmar being scum, and a good part of his voters could be scum. While it is true that Palmar's campaign looks somewhat legitimate, I have the feeling that his success is due to either : 1) the fact that he jumped right in, and was the first (perhaps second, I don't remember) person to run for mayor: this is a decent way to attract the newbies, but then again BC's plan could look equally good in the eyes of new players. I'm not entirely sure, but I do feel it's a little hard to understand Palmar's success if he is town (seeing as the scum would probably fight him). 2) the fact that, when we draw the line, he is the one clearly winning atm; keeping in mind the somewhat large number of lurkers/inactive players up until this point, and balancing that with the scum team's power of coordination, it seems to me that Palmar being scum is quite a likely option. 3) I realize that Palmar's actions could have been just the actions of a good town player (which I believe he is), who is tried to seize the moment by running for mayor first and having a good campaign, being outspoken and aiming for self confidence/transparency. But it's equally unlikely that mafia would let this pass, as they have the votes to pick anyone other (seeing as palmar has about 20 and something votes right now, and there are 16 scum). I feel that even if they risked themselves (by uniting and voting for another person), scum would not let Palmar get elected if Palmar was town. So in consequence, I'm incredibly hesitant in trusting either one of Palmar, sandroba or BC. I realize that I've voted for Palmar at the beginning, then switched to BC, it was mostly because they seemed the people with the most solid campaigns in my eyes. For the moment, my most reasonable choice is to vote for either GreyMist or annul. GreyMist seems to be arguing a lot (even though he's not overly aggressive, I feel that most of his posts are a little pointless, at least more pointless than annul's). annul too, has many short posts but he appears much more concise in my eyes. I will ##vote annul | ||
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kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
64vs16 Scum mayor elected, mislynch + deny town double lynches 63vs16 11 consecutive correct lynches ignoring blues 55vs15 48vs14 41vs13 35vs12 29vs11 24vs10 19vs9 15vs8 11vs7 8vs6 5vs5 GG Town loses It's not a realistic scenario considering there will be vig hits (both good and bad) and medic saves, but its crucial to elect a town. I don't care if the mayor doesn't ever post in the thread again, assuming they are town and can provide us our double lynches. I'm really starting to think vig's should be shooting night 2-3 or we're going to be in trouble, unless there are 30+ medics hanging around. | ||
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minus_human
4784 Posts
annul, would you be willing to run? It's a little unlikely that many people will change their votes, but if the day's extended (seeing as many people did not vote yet) maybe we could draw some additional votes. | ||
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sinani206
United States1959 Posts
On November 27 2011 01:59 supersoft wrote: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=285690&user=64722¤tpage=4 oh boy. Next time you don't read properly, I am going to treat you like sinani. I have a history with sinani and this guy ruined several games. I don't know why he's still allowed to sign up. I mean he's only fulfilling the mandatory voting and the 3 posts per day rule. I don't think he ever played to actually win a game. that insult wasnt personal at all... *goes to sulk in corner* | ||
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Serejai
6007 Posts
On November 27 2011 01:59 supersoft wrote: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=285690&user=64722¤tpage=4 oh boy. Next time you don't read properly, I am going to treat you like sinani. I have a history with sinani and this guy ruined several games. I don't know why he's still allowed to sign up. I mean he's only fulfilling the mandatory voting and the 3 posts per day rule. I don't think he ever played to actually win a game. All you do is say that it's not worth using a lynch or a shot on sinani because he's not very active in games. Then you turn around and suggest that we role check him. Claiming we should ignore him in one sentence then requesting we waste a check on him instead of someone more important is a very scummy thing to do. Also, the only real analysis you've provided all game is for prplhz who isn't getting votes anyway. In fact, it seems like over 75% of your content in this thread is about why he shouldn't be mayor. The only analysis you've done on the real candidates is stuff like kitaman27 I think he's a reasonable player and therefor a reasonable choice. Then you also post gems like this: On November 27 2011 01:05 supersoft wrote: I have a bad feeling about that, too... You got some keyposts that back up this feeling? I agree on jackal and syllo. Kita is lurking and because of that frustrating expectations... The others 50/50 Kurumi probably town, too. All game deconduo has been listing town and mafia suspects based off nothing but "gut reads". Then you blindly agree with him. In fact, everything you've said so far this game has been based off your feelings or based off other people's feelings. This isn't My Little Pony. This is mafia. You are mafia. | ||
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