EPTSteamship Liquidia (TL Mafia 46)
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prplhz
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On September 20 2011 03:07 DoctorHelvetica wrote: I'm annoyed that I'm in the hot seat for picking the "wrong" bandwagon when the one everyone else went onto flipped out a pretty good power role. I'm also overreacting because WBG's attitude and play style annoys me so much I seriously considered quitting this game yesterday. I'll cool down but I'll never play another game with him, i know that much. On November 10 2011 01:25 DoctorHelvetica wrote: ##Signup ![[image loading]](http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100828054703/uncyclopedia/images/b/b5/Exploding-head.gif) (sorry  but it's nice to see that you've made up!) | ||
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I am hoping that maybe it will start this weekend Also, it's sad when all threads in forum are yellow but that's not the case anymore now! | ||
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Tunneling can be pretty powerful, it is a tool to get a read it should just be used right. Town shouldn't let itself get sidetracked if player A decides that they want to tunnel player B, look at what is happening. Don't just say "lole~(tm) u r tunnl means u r scum". If you want to lynch either a lurker or a liar you ALWAYS need to post analysis of why they are scummy too. I like what Cyber_Cheese said, Hiroruby has a lot of focus on how to play as mafia. Also, he supports a strict lynch all lurkers policy which, as I have already said, is extremely pro-mafia for painfully obvious reasons. The multi-lynch system should be used for lynching multiple scum. ##Vote Hiroruby | ||
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I think town shouldn't lie and we should discourage that. Look no further than Team Melee Mini Mafia where the esteemed GMarshal provided a prime example of why a strict lynch-all-liars policy isn't always the greatest as it would have lost town that game. If you are town: do not lie under any circumstances. If you are town and somebody else lies: don't just lynch them because of that alone, even though we have a seemingly unlimited number of lynches at our disposal. | ||
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Also, I jumped on the 0-person bandwagon? Rofl. I liked your post Cyber_Cheese even though I thought it was weird that you didn't vote in it, but that new post of yours was all shit. Sorry. Hiroruby says he supports a strict lynch-all-lurkers policy right here: On November 15 2011 13:43 Hiroruby wrote: Lurkers: should be killed, and that should be made clear right away. If you know you will die if you lurk, then you will not lurk unless you are mafia, and that should just get you killed. Lurking helps no one, gives nothing to either validate or disprove a person, just leaves a cloud of ambiguity and distrust. Lurkers simply must die as they are either town that are usless, thus hurting us, or are mafia. He says that even if lurkers are town, they should get lynched. I mean come on. | ||
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About lurkers, we have a seemingly unlimited number of lynches at our disposal and everybody has to post every 24 hours as it says in the OP. If we don't lynch any lurkers day1 we can still lynch them day2 and by that point we'll have like 6-7 posts from everybody. If they're all useless one liners, then lets go ahead and kill a few of them but there's no reason to lynch them prematurely when we can just postpone it and lynch them later. Later we will have more material and the lynch will not be based solely on their lurking but also on their being useless for a long period of time. For people who did not notice it the OP says that you must post in this thread every 24 hours | ||
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On November 16 2011 15:17 Cyber_Cheese wrote: The bolded part. Explain how you know what mafia are thinking and what stances they are taking. Also explain to me how lynching lurkers with our multi-lynch means we will hit only town with all our lynches. On not lynching lurkers day 1, if we show leniency for lurking now, then it sets a precedent for days to come. Waiting for lurkers to provide enough content to decide their alignment one way or the other is exactly the problem with lurkers and can take weeks. Show no tolerance by lynching them straight from day 1, and they'll realise we're serious. Lol because if you start to lynch lurkers then scum will stop lurking and we'll just end up lynching people who are busy doing their homework, I think I already wrote that in this thread, don't you read this thread? | ||
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On November 16 2011 16:23 Cyber_Cheese wrote: I don't get it, are you trying to claim that only town has homework, and only scum will become active? Rofl so you want to lynch people who has homework based on the fact that scum also has homework? | ||
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On November 16 2011 16:50 Cyber_Cheese wrote: Lynching lurkers discourages people from being abolutely useless to us, and not even providing enough material to make reads. If lynching some lurkers forces the lurking mafia to post, we have a higher chance of identifying them correctly. On the number of lynches, we should consider three a maximum. I figure we would have just been given a double lynch if bad stuff happened past two. If we ignore lurkers day1 then we will have 6-7 posts of theirs by day2 lynch. Then they will not be lurkers anymore and we can start discussing what they have posted. Also, arguing about lynch-all-lurkers defeats the purpose of the policy itself as it will allow people to lurk even harder. But not in this game, because by day2 lynch they will have 6-7 posts anyway. Am I getting through to you at all? | ||
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##Vote Kenpachi | ||
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On November 16 2011 18:48 Cyber_Cheese wrote: Are you saying that Coag is in absolutely no danger of being lynched even if he continues to lurk? That seems to defeat the point of threatening to lynch lurkers. By bringing up the good players as the best choices, we can get them to stop lurking day 1, and prove why they are indeed worth keeping. Add to that the mafia might choose to pick them off for being good in meta, not wanting them around to actually pick up their game. The whole point in lynching lurkers is to discourage other lurkers. What incentive do these 'good' people have to stop lurking if they know they are safe because other lurkers will die first? So assuming that they're going to keep lurking, you'd rather lynch Coagulation than sinani? Or would you rather lynch both? | ||
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Also, I'm not getting lynched day1, wtfux??? | ||
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##Vote Drazerk | ||
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STOP VOTING LANAIA AND CHAOSER ##Vote Cyber_Cheese ALSO WTF ABOUT KENPACHI GG SON SORRY FOR MY VOTE | ||
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oh my god you suck MORE PEOPLE ON DRAZERK, HIRORUBY, AND CYBER_CHEESE LESS PEOPLE ON SINANI206 THANK YOU | ||
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I actually think sinani206 has been surprisingly helpful to town this game compared to some of his other games. So please don't lynch him just because he's a lurker, day1 has already killed off one lurker who was most likely town. | ||
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On November 18 2011 11:17 hyshes wrote: What kind of set-up is this? two roles on 1 person? .... no. | ||
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On November 18 2011 11:31 sinani206 wrote: fuck you hyshes. good night. hahahaha that lynch was totally your fault l2p you can't expect everybody to think that your lurking oneliner style is the greatest thing ever in mafia so stop being an asshole about it | ||
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On November 19 2011 01:40 Forumite wrote: I can understand that, I wrote him off as Town early too, but that changed. I am looking forward to hearing your opinion once you recheck him. I don´t know if I like people putting me on the townlist or not. Feels like a I get a gold medal, while simultaneously a huge target is painted on my forehead. so funny | ||
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On November 19 2011 06:13 Nisani201 wrote: So you're saying I should be vigged instead of a lurker? loooool It's pretty easy to lynch lurkers this game. | ||
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On November 19 2011 20:42 Forumite wrote: [...] I haven´t yet found a reason to reevaluate my new stance on prplhz. His play during the sinani hammering stand out as a player who wanted sinani dead while simultaenously making it look like his hands were clean, thereby avoiding the guilt of lynching a Town player. If he was against the lynch then he should have made an attempt to call it off, if he wanted to lynch sinani then he should have voted, not wanting to do either tells me he wanted sinani dead without having to do it himself, and only a Scum would act like that. ##Vote: prplhz On November 18 2011 10:53 prplhz wrote: [...] MORE PEOPLE ON DRAZERK, HIRORUBY, AND CYBER_CHEESE LESS PEOPLE ON SINANI206 THANK YOU I highlighted the important part in bold and removed part of my post since you were apparently too lazy to read the whole thing in the first place. I thought I made my opinion very accessible but apparently not accessible enough. This was before he got hammered. Do you really think I stand out as a player who wanted sinani206 dead? Did I not make an attempt to call it off? Do I even have the power to call anything off, and in spite of this, did I not do everything I could to prevent sinani206 from being lynched? sinani206 ALWAYS sucks, I just thought he sucked considerably less in this game. Yes, I actually thought sinani206 was playing very well ... that is, compared to how he usually plays. We'd already lynched one lurker (I wanted him to perform because I know he's great at mafia, he shot two scum in XLV, and then when I came back you morons had actually lynched him on no ground at all, sucks) and as I'd already stated in the thread, lynching lurkers is something scum likes a lot more than town. I think this is very weird because I really didn't think you were this dumb. ##Vote: Drazerk ##Vote: bumatlarge Drazerk has been scummy and useless all the way through. He's usually all over the place as town but here he's just been hiding behind lynching easy targets because of stupid things instead of committing like a boss. Also, his defense is that he sucks. bumatlarge voted for me. What do people think about Tyrran? I notice that the guy actually voted for both lurkers yesterday even though he said he'd only advocate the lynch of one lurker, but then again he apparently thought sinani206 was scum in spite of people's warnings. Cyber_Cheese, I usually have a good read on you, I thought you were scum in both LotR and PYP:I, but in this game it's been harder. What do you think about Tyrran? | ||
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Now I am defending people in the interest of getting them lynched? Well that's up hill now wouldn't you say so. I said what I meant, the guy shouldn't get lynched. Blaming me for getting him lynched is stupid when all I ever said was that he was a moron but that he was probably town and people shouldn't vote him. @hyshes Why the hell did you vote sinani206 after I had written IN CAPS LOCK that you shouldn't vote him? Why did you think it was a good idea? What kind of information did you hope to gain from it? What information did you actually end up gaining? You didn't comment on his lynch at all since it happened so it doesn't seem like you got any information from it. Also your filter is very underwhelming at first sight, didn't have time to read it through 'cause I kinda have to go cook some food right now. | ||
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So you are mason and you chose to mason Drazerk or what? | ||
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I'm gonna read your god damn filter later, I had to go cook food 'cause my sister was bitching at me, does that make me scum? Jesus christ. I never said that caps lock equals convincing statement, but does it equal unconvincing statement? I posted my opinion very clearly. Unfortunately I was too late and hyshes didn't give a shit anyway (who the hell doesn't take a post seriously just because it's in caps, jesus christ. If you had any doubts, why didn't you ask before you hammered?) so sinani206 ended up lynched. Not a big deal anyway, it's not like he would have scum hunted ever and his role required a lot of skill to use. Would have been useful at a mylo though. ##Unvote Drazerk For now. | ||
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If you would rather listen to "stop voting i think he's town" than "STOP VOTING" then what the hell. I see your logic, but I don't think that's what I did. I wrote my opinion, if you don't care about it because it's in caps then that's your fault. My statements were not hard to read at all and I made my opinion pretty clear. | ||
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The case against me today is the following: before sinani206 was lynched I wrote in caps that I thought that people should stop voting for him. Since it was in caps, I clearly did not mean what I was saying. This means that I am scum. I disagree with this. My play so far this game has been: First I argued with Cyber_Cheese for some time about policy lynches. I don't like policy lynches, especially lurker lynches because, as I said in my posts, they are scum favored. Scum will just stop lurking if we start voting for them for lurking while people like Kenpachi will get subtly killed off by mafia. I stopped arguing with Cyber_Cheese when I realized that I'd made my point and arguing over policies is often rather pointless, it defeats the point of the policies if it appears that we don't agree on them. After that I started posting one liners in caps. There was not a single one of these one liners I didn't mean. I wrote in caps one liners because I wanted people to know my opinion but I didn't want any mafia to take me too seriously. I did a somewhat comparable thing in TMMM when I posted without punctuation and it goaded GMarshal into making a terrible case on me. What I said actually made sense, he just jumped me because he didn't like the form. Townies shouldn't do this, they should read the thread and not just say "lol caps = scum". (yes, I was lynched in TMMM day1 but that was because neither me nor my team mate was around in the last 8 hours and town decided to jump on us in the last minute when we couldn't even defend ourselves). I was the first to vote for Drazerk yesterday because I went through his filter and it was full of non committal stuff, he was voting for Sabin010 because of the mob-incident, this is not the Drazerk I know, that Drazerk is all over the place voting for everybody not just for a guy lying by accident with some poor formulations of his past experience. The Drazerk I know is a boss, not some guy hiding behind a stupid policy for his vote. My vote on Drazerk today wasn't a bandwagon, it was a continuation from yesterday when I was the first one to vote for Drazerk because I thought he was scum. I didn't think he'd done much to shed the suspicion I had on him. Now can anybody mention any single thing I've that has been scummy? I realize I might not have been overly town, but that does not make me scum by far. But I have been pushing town agenda all game, maybe not as strong as you'd like it, but you can't mention anywhere where I've actually done something scummy. Because I haven't. The least you can do if you are going to lynch me is not all bandwagon Forumite's case. Write your own case.
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Why don't you put something into this thread instead of just saying literally nothing. What do you think about Tyrren? | ||
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@wherebugsgo Isn't that exactly what he's doing here? Nisani201 has been on your back since the beginning of this game. I also don't think he's less loud than me, probably more loud. Loud is a bad thing here, Nisani201 is saying stuff like "herp" in caps. | ||
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I used to vote him for bad logic and half arsed cases but he seems genuine enough and I don't think scumatlarge would attract unwarranted attention in this way if he was scum. ##Unvote bumatlarge risk.nuke Since Tyrran's post somehow he became confirmed townie. I don't think he is confirmed townie, I think he is scum. On November 16 2011 22:40 risk.nuke wrote: By giving town his reads, You're right lets kill him. Palmar can't manipulate squat unless you count that because he is sharing his reads and that makes him lean more to town. Because sharing reads is a town move which makes his candidates seem more scum. But this goes for everyone who shares his reads. You want to say that sharing your reads are deceitfull and manipulative. It seems like your point in that statement was to alert people not to follow palmar blindly. Which there was really no risk of happening. To me it looks like a way to make a subtile pro-town post and that's mafia maner. FoS prplhz I never said "kill him", You are putting words in my mouth to make me look worse. I think there was a risk of people trusting Palmar more than they should, there are a lot of new faces in this game and at the point I wasn't very sure of Palmar's alignment and I thought he was taking his "don't worry town, I'm immortal and I'm gonna find all scum for you, just wait" to an extreme. So I warned people. On November 17 2011 02:33 risk.nuke wrote: Wbg be mindfull so you don't accidently start tunneling. In this post he is very subtly defending chaoser by telling wherebugsgo not to focus on him. wherebugsgo's tunneling style can be very effective and even chaoser could easily fall to it. I have a slight scum read on chaoser so this makes me think that risk.nuke is more scum. On November 17 2011 06:32 risk.nuke wrote: Okey, but isn't this exacly one of those situations where we connected two people and should not lynch both of them incase they are town. ##Vote Kenpachi On November 17 2011 06:47 risk.nuke wrote: If kenpachi is green, then lanaia probably isn't scum. If kenpachi is red we got a scumkill even if that doesn't necessarily mean lanaia is his buddy. If lanai is green that means nothing for kenpachis alignment. If lanai is red then kenpachi is scum. I think we learn more from knowing kenpachis alignment. Here risk.nuke votes for Kenpachi while following up with logic that makes his lynch seem like the better option of the two, lynching Kenpachi and lynching lanaia. The scenario he fails to mention is the best scenario, we don't lynch Kenpachi, day2 we will have more information on him and Kenpachi hasn't been scummy at all. He never actually says that Kenpachi is scummy, he just lynches Kenpachi because they are connected and according to his own logic, we hardly even get anything out of Kenpachi's death! On November 18 2011 09:34 risk.nuke wrote: Just read http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=282366&user=31777 He makes a huge case on prphlz and doesn't follow up, but goes inactive for the entire day. ##Vote: bumatlarge Here he votes for bumatlarge because he made half a case on me. He said in his post that he didn't have time to make a full case on me, then he disappears for a while, I guess because he had to tend to some other business outside mafia. Again, this is a very brittle foundation for a vote. Also, if risk.nuke thinks that I'm scum, shouldn't he think that bumatlarge should at least be more townie for making a case on me? Or does he just care about a seemingly easy target? Again, he doesn't say that he actually thinks that bumatlarge is scum, it seems like his votes are mostly because he wants to vote for people. On November 18 2011 22:28 risk.nuke wrote: These are the people I think need investigation. The people who voted for Kenpachi, Lanaia and Sinani Lemonwalrus, GreYMisT, Zephirdd, Drazerk, Nisani claims himelf not to want to lynch kenpachi anymore, but note he doesn't unvote and 3 minutes later... ...Cybercheese nailes Kenpachis coffin. That's a scummy connection worth looking in to On another note. Town (that includes me) are playing like shit and it's going to stop now. The accused defends themselves with arguments like "you're idiots, fuck you". It's your own fucking fault for getting yourself lynched. Period. The only defense I've seen is from Lanaia who explains everything in his thoughtprocess and as result he did not get lynched, not even close. And that is exacly how every fucking one of you are going to defend yourself from now on. Copy? Then we have the accusers. I know it's easy when you feel like you have a gut feeling on someone, you want them lynched and suddenly you've just copied something just so you type a reason to vote. Enough of that lazy shit, sit down and really think why you feel like you feel. That way when asked about it later you can answer truthfully. or maybe you realised you don't actually want the person dead after all. The next person who quotes someone and votes I am going to slap. Because if townies are throwing around votes without explaining an acceptable thoughtprocess mafia can do the same and nobody can tell the difference. In short. Defend yourself by explaining your truthfull thoughtprocess. Accuse someone by explaining your truthfull thoughtprocess. Now read this out loud 3 times. Bolded parts, why does he feel the need to say that he is town too? Why does he say that if you get lynched, even as townie, that is always your own fault? It looks like he is trying to absolve himself of all flak that could come from him voting for townies, which is all he's done this game so far. In the second paragraph he attacks people for being dumb and half arsed, but isn't he half arsed himself? His votes so far have been half arsed and he never pushed for anything so far. Also he attacks Cyber_Cheese that I'm getting a slight townread from. On November 21 2011 07:46 risk.nuke wrote: Chaoser has been subject to lynching for a long time, I'm starting to belive he might be town, either way I don't want to lynch him today. Imo I have better candidates for today, wbg and prphlz. I'm almost convinced RoL is town because I find it less likely a scum player would loose interest. I've been unsure on DCLXVI and Lemonwalrus but really they fall into the category as lynchable people which is mostly all you've been going after palmar and right now I'm so incredibly suspicious at you. I'm scared shitless that your role might be a godfather. These last days I've been getting very suspicious against you palmar. And It's not just what you've done I find it very interesting that you've been getting along with wbg, Most importantly none of you have questioned or brought up any of the scummy things the other have done. Imo, if one of these guys are found out to be scum we lynch them both without hesitation unless they got a fucking amazing explaination and I mean amazing and I mean the truth and I want it fast, not a couple of hours for you to cook up something in which case I will assume you've worked out a lie. My current scumteam. Prplhz xsksc Zepphird I'm convinced atleast 1 of these three is scum and potentially all three, my post. this is to odd to be ignored. However that is based on if prphlz is scum. If he flip town they go back to null-read ##Vote: wherebugsgo Palmar I'm not going to vote for him due to his getting shot claim. I think we'll find out the truth of that later. In this post he defends chaoser by saying the he's starting to believe he might be town, then why did he not want wherebusgo to interrogate him yesterday? He goes on to say that RebirthOfLegend is almost confirmed town just because HiroRuby was replaced. A replacement says absolutely nothing about your alignment, he didn't just lose interest he actually went cold turkey with mafia and dropped the game. He also attacks wherebugsgo and Palmar, neither of whom are giving up on their attacks on chaoser, thus sowing mistrust in their judgment. I was unsure yesterday but today I'm starting to think that chaoser might be scum, he has been attacked for not doing anything sensible ever since day1 and how does he defend himself? He martyrs and he attacks Palmar and wherebugsgo right back. This is no way to defend yourself. Also risk.nuke is attacking xsksc whose filter I've been through without finding anything incriminating. As for Zepphird, i dno lole~. Good lynch for today. ##Vote risk.nuke Also, even though I'm getting less of a scum vibe from him than I'm getting from risk.nuke: ##Vote chaoser I'd prefer if we only lynched one today and I'd prefer if that person was risk.nuke. | ||
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On November 21 2011 18:42 Forumite wrote: If you are still undecided about prplhz then I hope you will make up your mind soon. For or against the lynch doesn´t matter, but take a stand. If for or against doesn't matter then it seems like you're trying to lynch me for information. I'd very much prefer if you didn't do that. | ||
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@Tyrran I think mafia did not kill her 'cause they're not really that afraid of her power yet and because they thought she might be medic protected. I know that you thought that risk.nuke was confirmed town because of the way he acted during the whole Kenpachi/lanaia thing, but don't you agree that I have a point with my analysis? Which parts don't you agree with? | ||
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I didn't think it could save sinani206 but I didn't think that "don't vote sinani206 because i think he's town" would in any way work better than "DON'T VOTE SINANI". I think the "i think he's town" was implied. I could have said "i think he's town because of previous games" but I wouldn't be able to quote anything. This was a gut feel, and I think that's what my caps message also communicated. I wasn't lamenting anything anyway, I thought sinani206 went way over the line when he said "fuck you" to a new player so I taunted him (sorry). Also, if you look at the post I actually say that I understand people who voted for him, I never expected them to have the same gut read as me and I didn't consider sinani206 a big loss either except for his role which could have been good at a possibly mylo if he would be confirmed townie at that point or something. Somewhat unrelated to the game, it was totally sinani206's fault that he got lynched. Any townie who gets lynched should always blame themselves even though it might not be their own fault. It was in this case though. | ||
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Well gg and sorry town. | ||
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I asked Zona about some stuff so I might as well give you his answers here so you don't all have to PM him about it. Is Kenpachi's role informed if he saves somebody? No. Will Kenpachi's watcher ability see scum who are carrying out night hits? He couldn't answer this question. I've answered all questions since Forumite started going for me. I think it's weird that he's all "Oh you're blue why didn't you say so =(!!!" now. My role couldn't really confirm itself anyway without me revealing it's powers. I don't know what the mafia team is but I think that something along the lines of risk.nuke, chaoser/MrZentor, DCLXVI, HiroRuby/RebirthOfLegend and then one more, but I don't really have a good read on anybody this game. I already cooked up an apparently shitty case on risk.nuke, I'm not gonna bother you with more useless text walls like that, this thread is long enough as it is  | ||
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I watched Tyrran last night and Cyber_Cheese and DCLXVI visited him. | ||
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On November 22 2011 08:05 Forumite wrote: I´m not a medic, so I don´t know how they work in this game. Since you were one, briefly, and this information would likely be included in your role-PM from Kenpachi, I thought I´d ask you directly. Kenpachi's role PM is in the OP (or one of the first posts). You can PM Zona about it just as well as I can. And yes I can steal and use power the same night, obviously. On November 22 2011 08:17 Cyber_Cheese wrote: He's legit. Explain the bolded section. Why does one of us have to be mafia? Not only that, but you were willing to openly accept that information from somebody you believe to be scum, just because he's about to die? ##Vote: Forumite @Prplhz I know that you are town now, so I'll let you make the decision. We are three blues down already, and three possibly four blues are targets for the mafia tonight. (the masons, me, DCLXVI) With all this in mind, should I rolecall? With this semi-complicated setup I'm sure Zona put that in to avoid a situation where role claiming could break the game. Also maybe to avoid people talking about their PMs to breadcrumbs roles or something like that. I don't think that there's any dangers of modkill to a guy just casually claiming, it is up to you though. Also, since there are apparently a ton of blues in this game, I thought that claiming watcher wouldn't have helped me since mafia watcher actually makes sense, and Tyrran didn't claim hit so I couldn't claim that I'd protected him. I didn't want to potentially out two blues, but I think that DCLXVI is scummy and you straight up told me to claim so I did. | ||
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prplhz
Denmark8045 Posts
On November 22 2011 09:29 Cyber_Cheese wrote: I was holding this back because I wanted to see Nisani and Prplhz flip seperately, but that was under the assumption at least one other lynch would happen too (Chaoser preferably). Also Prplhz is more or less confirmed at the moment, so ##Vote: Nisani201 I'm not confirmed anything except confirmed watcher. On November 22 2011 09:12 DCLXVI wrote: @Palmar Why do you keep refuting the possibility that one mafia may bus another? Consider the situation where both of you are mafia, nisani looks close to a lynch, so he distances himself from a teammate with an analysis against him. That seems perfectly reasonable to me. Why would you rather assume that scum bussed over that scum didn't bus? Scum don't usually bus a lot, don't you think you can find non-bussing scum first? I'm sure they didn't all bus. On November 22 2011 09:11 Palmar wrote: At this point I actually don't mind just flipping them both. prplhz is already dead. I find it really, really weird that he didn't roleclaim earlier (as I suggested). No idea what to think of it. I didn't want to reveal my role and I only had 8 votes on me, thought I needed 13. I thought I'd claim blue on 10-11 and then role claim on 11-12. Then I had to go away and it took a while longer than I thought and when I came back people had decided to hammer. Sucks, but whatever. | ||
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prplhz
Denmark8045 Posts
WOOHOO | ||
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